1. How would realm timers effect households with multiple players living there. For example, I play Hib but my room mate wants to play Mid. You couldn't do ISP's for that reason.
2. If you can't do ISP's for the reason listed above then what would stop people from still switching that have multiple accounts?
I am by no means a computer programmer but I would think you would either need to make this ISP based or account based. Both have work arounds and/or issues associated with them. How do you work around those issues and work arounds?
A short realm timer is only meant to keep people from switching between realms on a whim. I doubt many players have one account dedicated for each realm (it used to be a thing in the past when we could only have one realm per server but unlikely to be common today). Therefore, having multiple accounts is unlikely to be a major component of the problem. The perceived problem, at least from an RvR perspective, are those who switch realms to join the "winning" side on a short fuse. I am not buying that Albs switched to Hibs in order to compete against the Mid BG as I run the Hib BG during US prime. I suspect people switched because we were in a defensive position AND holding our own against both BGs (therefore more RPs). The whole reason I started leading a Hib US prime BG was to bring back the three-way action, not to shift back to two-way action as has been the situation for years.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
(for people asking about isp/IP/multiple people per house) i think we are talking about account realm timer not the "spy's" issue that people normally do IP based timers for.
So for:
same house: who cares no problem just each player has there own account
same IP: ya thats fine
ISP (i dont know why this was brought up who cares that my internet is com cast or whatever?).
It would simply be a timer to keep your account from jumping and logging in to you animist that's sitting at the relic. this would hopefully stop the attacking realm from going from 0% bonus to 40-80% bonus because hibs now have 2X the pop of attacking. (last night we lit one of the relic keeps just to see if this mid group that was bugging use would leave, I was stealthed near them and when the keep went of fire their whole group sat down and quit, and in a few minutes hib bonus was gone and everyone else had a bonus) so this is a real thing; every one loves free realm points which is exactly what a relic defense is when you have most of the relics and are hibs.
Thought I was in this thread when I posted this, let's keep the timer discussion to this thread going forward so there's no jumping around please.
We said we didn't want them, and for various reasons.
This was during a previous Q&A and is pretty much where we are with it still, though not blind to the reasons and such that it's coming up a lot more currently, and is something we're continually discussing.
With regard to realm loyalty, what is your position on loyalty bonuses and realm timers? (Kahzee, BeefZerkee, Thor, Murmerz, CDPL, Solicfire,, Krakulf, Neikath)
John: Realm loyalty is something the team has discussed and gone back and forth on several times over the past few years. We would love to have a system in place that would reward people for staying in one realm without it feeling like it’s a penalty if don’t do that, and that’s kind of the crux of the problem. We’re trying to come up with a solution, we’re always open to feedback on that. If we can come up with a good solution, and we can fit it into the schedule, then absolutely we would add something like that to the game.
For the realm timers, pretty against that at this point based on feedback from the past and how we’ve tried having a long realm timer, we’ve tried having short realm timers, and shorter is just the way to go.
We don't prefer the penalty route. Also please note that every playstyle opinion is a valid opinion and anything we do or don't do has to take into consideration the whole game not just one playstyle, one primetime, one situation, one circumstance, etc (in general terms)
Realm hopping would be a lesser issue if we had a larger population like the early days of DAoC. I think the focus should be on creating a sustainable F2P system with Endless Conquest. The current version definitely needs to be revamped as it discourages player retention without a subscription. I will continue to submit feedback to Broadsword with some of my ideas and I strongly urge the current player-base to participate as well.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I don't think realm hopping is much of a issue personally. I think the influx of ppl you are seeing join your bg is the roaming hib 8 mans. Most of the hib 8's start logging in about the time Xyorman's bg starts hitting stuff. Even before Shaylon's bg Mids/Alb have had little success taking hib keeps that are actually defended. Hibs are good at defending. That being said I think Albs/Mids are giving us too much time to defend. I mean we see the mid BG come into Hibland and I just keep roaming for about another hour or so cause they don't hit anything besides towers. AS far as Realm timers go I think it would be more of hindrance than a plus, lots of ppl switch realms and its their money their choice. Put some kind of Loyalty Buff up or something but ruining other ppl's playstyle's doesn't seem like a viable option to me.
Thought I was in this thread when I posted this, let's keep the timer discussion to this thread going forward so there's no jumping around please.
We said we didn't want them, and for various reasons.
This was during a previous Q&A and is pretty much where we are with it still, though not blind to the reasons and such that it's coming up a lot more currently, and is something we're continually discussing.
With regard to realm loyalty, what is your position on loyalty bonuses and realm timers? (Kahzee, BeefZerkee, Thor, Murmerz, CDPL, Solicfire,, Krakulf, Neikath)
John: Realm loyalty is something the team has discussed and gone back and forth on several times over the past few years. We would love to have a system in place that would reward people for staying in one realm without it feeling like it’s a penalty if don’t do that, and that’s kind of the crux of the problem. We’re trying to come up with a solution, we’re always open to feedback on that. If we can come up with a good solution, and we can fit it into the schedule, then absolutely we would add something like that to the game.
For the realm timers, pretty against that at this point based on feedback from the past and how we’ve tried having a long realm timer, we’ve tried having short realm timers, and shorter is just the way to go.
We don't prefer the penalty route. Also please note that every playstyle opinion is a valid opinion and anything we do or don't do has to take into consideration the whole game not just one playstyle, one primetime, one situation, one circumstance, etc (in general terms)
This is what I don't understand -- outside of a hugely small minority --- where is the outcry against Realm Timers to begin with, --- seems like selective hearing to me since outside of a very few, I can find few who would feel imposed upon by a timer; the entire crux of this game has been about REALM -- why are the devs intent on changing that to assuage a few? Sadly, while a timer is nice, given the current state of the game, it can only be a piece of the solution --- I really find the Devs position illogical
to Creaper --- Just LOL --- watch the numbers -- if you cant see the changes don't know what it would take for you to think it is an issue; the fluctuations are clear; nobody is being restricted from playing anything, you're simply asked to choose for a period of time --- it's a central function of the game <heck of ANY game> -- moreover, it isn't JUST a US Prime issue --- it's throughout the day and encouraged by the quest system and the <current> PVE a keep for BP daily <amongst other things over the years>.
Can somewhere verify if players can log inside of a relic keep for me? If that is the case then @Creaper post above is not entirely precise. Its not that mid or alb gives hibs (insert any realm in each scenario) to defend. The time you would be talking about if you can camp a character inside of a relic keep is the time it takes you to log out of one realm and into another.
If i am incorrect and you "cannot" log inside of a relic keep, then the issue isnt as bad as i perceive it.
Can somewhere verify if players can log inside of a relic keep for me? If that is the case then @Creaper post above is not entirely precise. Its not that mid or alb gives hibs (insert any realm in each scenario) to defend. The time you would be talking about if you can camp a character inside of a relic keep is the time it takes you to log out of one realm and into another.
If i am incorrect and you "cannot" log inside of a relic keep, then the issue isnt as bad as i perceive it.
if you logged in a keep you can log back in even when it is flaming
I don't think realm hopping is much of a issue personally. I think the influx of ppl you are seeing join your bg is the roaming hib 8 mans. Most of the hib 8's start logging in about the time Xyorman's bg starts hitting stuff. Even before Shaylon's bg Mids/Alb have had little success taking hib keeps that are actually defended. Hibs are good at defending. That being said I think Albs/Mids are giving us too much time to defend. I mean we see the mid BG come into Hibland and I just keep roaming for about another hour or so cause they don't hit anything besides towers. AS far as Realm timers go I think it would be more of hindrance than a plus, lots of ppl switch realms and its their money their choice. Put some kind of Loyalty Buff up or something but ruining other ppl's playstyle's doesn't seem like a viable option to me.
Eh, that's partly correct regarding the 8mans. Usually, I see 8man groups join my BG for info after I make it public. The shift in population bonus is a better representation of people switching than the BG count although the BG count certainly rises as a result. It is clear that Broadsword has no intention of incorporating a realm timer as stated above by Carol. A loyalty bonus would be cool if possible to implement. Regardless, realm hopping is a real issue, primarily for BG play. I think the best course of action will be focusing on increasing the population (i.e. Endless Conquest) so realm hopping has a lesser impact on overall population balance.
Post edited by Tyrantanic on
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I am pretty torn on this matter, because I previously stated that there may be legitimate playstyles that do involve logging to different realms. One of which was 8 man roamers, and there are a set of people enjoy logging into lower number realms to help them out, or enjoy population bonuses there.
The game, and the playstyles has hugely shifted with the introduction of Ywain as the only server way back. Before that, I remember playing one realm / server for a huge amount of time, find pride in a realm, and guild we played in. This was largely achieved with one server as being an option, and be honest, people was less tired of the game looking for other realms to experience something different, or they played multiple servers for that purpose.
Back then, if you wasn't happy with your realms primetimes, or community, you literally had to delete your characters to stay on the same servers and join a different realm. When I played EU at the beginning, main 2 english servers been Prydwen and Excalibur, and yes, once I deleted every toon on Prydwen to reroll a different realm to fit my playstyle or primetime better.
So most of us argue, that how that compares to a small amount of realm timer? Well, to be fair, it's much less restrictive. However, many people I am sure got used to this system. There are really a few even I know who enjoy playing multiple realms one night, don't really having that much of a Realm Pride, and oppose the idea even a Realm Pride bonus, because then they would feel punished for their playstyle for many years now.
Yes, one server was necessary, yes, I am sure theres much less realm pride today in general (however there are a few how blindly pushes their one and only realm still).
Question is, how to do this properly? I still think Realm Pride is not something people can be enforced today. If they do not care about their one and only realm, just by restricting them, that won't change, they just have to plan better, but still would never care. There is really a sizeable people in community, who doesn't care about any realms performance, they are just "having fun".
While of course I am for a small amount of Realm Timer because of the way I play (15ish mins maybe), to make at least relic takes happen without much population shift, I think either it has to be a really minimum, not to screw with alot of people if possible, and still have to ensure that cross-realm trades can be done, since thats also what people got used to, and overall helps balance the 3 realms economy, regardless of the already terrible shape it is now.
Hope someone can come up with a really smart solution that both can be implemented without huge amount of effort, and help deal with this issue, with the bare minimum punishment on others.
Based on Carol's post it's obviouse BS doesn't give a damn about what the game was originally intentioned to be. I could quote from the orignal box I bought this game in but it wouldn't matter
Based on Carol's post it's obviouse BS doesn't give a damn about what the game was originally intentioned to be. I could quote from the orignal box I bought this game in but it wouldn't matter
it doesnt matter what Mythic said about the game they are long gone. Things change the game is almost 20 years old now.
Thought I was in this thread when I posted this, let's keep the timer discussion to this thread going forward so there's no jumping around please.
We said we didn't want them, and for various reasons.
This was during a previous Q&A and is pretty much where we are with it still, though not blind to the reasons and such that it's coming up a lot more currently, and is something we're continually discussing.
With regard to realm loyalty, what is your position on loyalty bonuses and realm timers? (Kahzee, BeefZerkee, Thor, Murmerz, CDPL, Solicfire,, Krakulf, Neikath)
John: Realm loyalty is something the team has discussed and gone back and forth on several times over the past few years. We would love to have a system in place that would reward people for staying in one realm without it feeling like it’s a penalty if don’t do that, and that’s kind of the crux of the problem. We’re trying to come up with a solution, we’re always open to feedback on that. If we can come up with a good solution, and we can fit it into the schedule, then absolutely we would add something like that to the game.
For the realm timers, pretty against that at this point based on feedback from the past and how we’ve tried having a long realm timer, we’ve tried having short realm timers, and shorter is just the way to go.
We don't prefer the penalty route. Also please note that every playstyle opinion is a valid opinion and anything we do or don't do has to take into consideration the whole game not just one playstyle, one primetime, one situation, one circumstance, etc (in general terms)
This is what I don't understand -- outside of a hugely small minority --- where is the outcry against Realm Timers to begin with, --- seems like selective hearing to me since outside of a very few, I can find few who would feel imposed upon by a timer; the entire crux of this game has been about REALM -- why are the devs intent on changing that to assuage a few? Sadly, while a timer is nice, given the current state of the game, it can only be a piece of the solution --- I really find the Devs position illogical
Out side of a few lifelong zergers who havent ever played any other realms who are all these people for realm timers?
Based on Carol's post it's obviouse BS doesn't give a damn about what the game was originally intentioned to be. I could quote from the orignal box I bought this game in but it wouldn't matter
it doesnt matter what Mythic said about the game they are long gone. Things change the game is almost 20 years old now.
The BS should come out and say that and not obfuscate and say things in their Producers letters like:
There are three major development goals that we intend to accomplish over the next year.
1. Make Realm vs Realm the best experience possible. This means returning RvR’s focus to the combat and realm war.
Based on Carol's post it's obviouse BS doesn't give a damn about what the game was originally intentioned to be. I could quote from the orignal box I bought this game in but it wouldn't matter
it doesnt matter what Mythic said about the game they are long gone. Things change the game is almost 20 years old now.
The BS should come out and say that and not obfuscate and say things in their Producers letters like:
There are three major development goals that we intend to accomplish over the next year.
1. Make Realm vs Realm the best experience possible. This means returning RvR’s focus to the combat and realm war.
Thought I was in this thread when I posted this, let's keep the timer discussion to this thread going forward so there's no jumping around please.
We said we didn't want them, and for various reasons.
This was during a previous Q&A and is pretty much where we are with it still, though not blind to the reasons and such that it's coming up a lot more currently, and is something we're continually discussing.
With regard to realm loyalty, what is your position on loyalty bonuses and realm timers? (Kahzee, BeefZerkee, Thor, Murmerz, CDPL, Solicfire,, Krakulf, Neikath)
John: Realm loyalty is something the team has discussed and gone back and forth on several times over the past few years. We would love to have a system in place that would reward people for staying in one realm without it feeling like it’s a penalty if don’t do that, and that’s kind of the crux of the problem. We’re trying to come up with a solution, we’re always open to feedback on that. If we can come up with a good solution, and we can fit it into the schedule, then absolutely we would add something like that to the game.
For the realm timers, pretty against that at this point based on feedback from the past and how we’ve tried having a long realm timer, we’ve tried having short realm timers, and shorter is just the way to go.
We don't prefer the penalty route. Also please note that every playstyle opinion is a valid opinion and anything we do or don't do has to take into consideration the whole game not just one playstyle, one primetime, one situation, one circumstance, etc (in general terms)
This is what I don't understand -- outside of a hugely small minority --- where is the outcry against Realm Timers to begin with, --- seems like selective hearing to me since outside of a very few, I can find few who would feel imposed upon by a timer; the entire crux of this game has been about REALM -- why are the devs intent on changing that to assuage a few? Sadly, while a timer is nice, given the current state of the game, it can only be a piece of the solution --- I really find the Devs position illogical
Out side of a few lifelong zergers who havent ever played any other realms who are all these people for realm timers?
Thought I was in this thread when I posted this, let's keep the timer discussion to this thread going forward so there's no jumping around please.
We said we didn't want them, and for various reasons.
This was during a previous Q&A and is pretty much where we are with it still, though not blind to the reasons and such that it's coming up a lot more currently, and is something we're continually discussing.
With regard to realm loyalty, what is your position on loyalty bonuses and realm timers? (Kahzee, BeefZerkee, Thor, Murmerz, CDPL, Solicfire,, Krakulf, Neikath)
John: Realm loyalty is something the team has discussed and gone back and forth on several times over the past few years. We would love to have a system in place that would reward people for staying in one realm without it feeling like it’s a penalty if don’t do that, and that’s kind of the crux of the problem. We’re trying to come up with a solution, we’re always open to feedback on that. If we can come up with a good solution, and we can fit it into the schedule, then absolutely we would add something like that to the game.
For the realm timers, pretty against that at this point based on feedback from the past and how we’ve tried having a long realm timer, we’ve tried having short realm timers, and shorter is just the way to go.
We don't prefer the penalty route. Also please note that every playstyle opinion is a valid opinion and anything we do or don't do has to take into consideration the whole game not just one playstyle, one primetime, one situation, one circumstance, etc (in general terms)
This is what I don't understand -- outside of a hugely small minority --- where is the outcry against Realm Timers to begin with, --- seems like selective hearing to me since outside of a very few, I can find few who would feel imposed upon by a timer; the entire crux of this game has been about REALM -- why are the devs intent on changing that to assuage a few? Sadly, while a timer is nice, given the current state of the game, it can only be a piece of the solution --- I really find the Devs position illogical
Out side of a few lifelong zergers who havent ever played any other realms who are all these people for realm timers?
That is quite the generalization.
Yea thats how I see it when He's saying the same thing lol. I've never seen anyone calling for a realm timer in game.
Based on Carol's post it's obviouse BS doesn't give a damn about what the game was originally intentioned to be. I could quote from the orignal box I bought this game in but it wouldn't matter
it doesnt matter what Mythic said about the game they are long gone. Things change the game is almost 20 years old now.
The BS should come out and say that and not obfuscate and say things in their Producers letters like:
There are three major development goals that we intend to accomplish over the next year.
1. Make Realm vs Realm the best experience possible. This means returning RvR’s focus to the combat and realm war.
RvR is the focus... That doesnt mean realm timers though...
Feel free to go back through the few threads discussing realm timers and find them.
But then again even when you found them you would discredit them as not being actual 8m players so it's quite useless.
You are only affected by a 10-15 minute timer if you were making sporadic realm switches for "Obvious" reasons. Other wise you would face very little annoyance from it. Watch 8m swap realms they usually take 5-10 minutes to pick who is playing what and get everyone ready. It would be very little difference of actual in game play time if you were legit swapping for other 8m action reasons.
Based on Carol's post it's obviouse BS doesn't give a damn about what the game was originally intentioned to be. I could quote from the orignal box I bought this game in but it wouldn't matter
it doesnt matter what Mythic said about the game they are long gone. Things change the game is almost 20 years old now.
The BS should come out and say that and not obfuscate and say things in their Producers letters like:
There are three major development goals that we intend to accomplish over the next year.
1. Make Realm vs Realm the best experience possible. This means returning RvR’s focus to the combat and realm war.
RvR is the focus... That doesnt mean realm timers though...
An how do you have RvR without realm being the focus?
Feel free to go back through the few threads discussing realm timers and find them.
But then again even when you found them you would discredit them as not being actual 8m players so it's quite useless.
You are only affected by a 10-15 minute timer if you were making sporadic realm switches for "Obvious" reasons. Other wise you would face very little annoyance from it. Watch 8m swap realms they usually take 5-10 minutes to pick who is playing what and get everyone ready. It would be very little difference of actual in game play time if you were legit swapping for other 8m action reasons.
if you are taking 10-15 minutes to switch you are trash
Based on Carol's post it's obviouse BS doesn't give a damn about what the game was originally intentioned to be. I could quote from the orignal box I bought this game in but it wouldn't matter
it doesnt matter what Mythic said about the game they are long gone. Things change the game is almost 20 years old now.
The BS should come out and say that and not obfuscate and say things in their Producers letters like:
There are three major development goals that we intend to accomplish over the next year.
1. Make Realm vs Realm the best experience possible. This means returning RvR’s focus to the combat and realm war.
RvR is the focus... That doesnt mean realm timers though...
An how do you have RvR without realm being the focus?
by not focusing on these **** pve campaigns for one....
I play fairly often, I wouldn’t care if they had a realm timer or not, I don’t swap realms when I play often enough to care about a little bit of time to wait if I decided to just swap. 30min seems about right, think it use to be much longer.
I think there should be an poll on here if we should bring back realm timers as I don't think there was a debate on this. I feel Broadsword have just said no realm timers regardless but if players are demanding it then there needs to be a solution and not ignore it.
I think there 2 options here:
1. You can either have a 5-10 realm timers where the player can't access their account on other realms until the 5-10 minute until timer is over.
or
2. Stop players entering Battlegrounds/New Frontiers for 5-10 minutes if they've changed realms but allow the PvE side access at all times with no realm timer
My opinion of this is they can do the 2nd option that would be beneficial for us all so it doesn't penalise people that are trying to get on a PvE raid. You can still access the realm but you can't access battlegrounds or New Frontiers until that timer is over i think is pretty fair. If this is a thing they can introduce i really think it would work well and possibly stop half of the realm hopping issue's.
Feel free to go back through the few threads discussing realm timers and find them.
But then again even when you found them you would discredit them as not being actual 8m players so it's quite useless.
You are only affected by a 10-15 minute timer if you were making sporadic realm switches for "Obvious" reasons. Other wise you would face very little annoyance from it. Watch 8m swap realms they usually take 5-10 minutes to pick who is playing what and get everyone ready. It would be very little difference of actual in game play time if you were legit swapping for other 8m action reasons.
if you are taking 10-15 minutes to switch you are trash
I think there should be an poll on here if we should bring back realm timers as I don't think there was a debate on this. I feel Broadsword have just said no realm timers regardless but if players are demanding it then there needs to be a solution and not ignore it.
I think there 2 options here:
1. You can either have a 5-10 realm timers where the player can't access their account on other realms until the 5-10 minute until timer is over.
or
2. Stop players entering Battlegrounds/New Frontiers for 5-10 minutes if they've changed realms but allow the PvE side access at all times with no realm timer
My opinion of this is they can do the 2nd option that would be beneficial for us all so it doesn't penalise people that are trying to get on a PvE raid. You can still access the realm but you can't access battlegrounds or New Frontiers until that timer is over i think is pretty fair. If this is a thing they can introduce i really think it would work well and possibly stop half of the realm hopping issue's.
I would have to agree with you that option 2 sounds MUCH better. It may be trying to get in a PvE raid or it may be that you are just trying to transfer some plats or items or anything else. I will add that option 2 would allow people to still log over and grief you if you killed them or upset them. Personally, I don't care much about that, but I know other people do. Normally if I switch over realms to talk to somebody after a fight it's normally to compliment them on a great fight or to make apologies if I messed up on a fight and maybe added on accident.
what exactly does a 5-10 minute timer do besides just mildly incontinence everyone? Thats not a deterrent from switching realms.
Not trying to deter legit realm swapping. Only you guys that swap during relic raids for the easy RPs. I don't care that you swap realms to find better 8m action that is completely understandable. But what isn't understandable is when albs or mids try for a relic back, all you 8ms swap to your hibs and make for an impossible relic retake. It's hard enough with the 8ms and the small hib zerg already. Why would we want mids and albs to log over and help them defend it.
You want us to respect your play style yet you don't respect others... that's cute.
As someone has stated in the past hibs are best keep defense realm, pair that with relic guards, grape keeps and 50+ legit defenders it makes for a hard but good relic attempt. When you add your 16-24 more that swap it makes it near impossible. Especially if we're talking about inside Ail.
Thought I was in this thread when I posted this, let's keep the timer discussion to this thread going forward so there's no jumping around please.
We said we didn't want them, and for various reasons.
This was during a previous Q&A and is pretty much where we are with it still, though not blind to the reasons and such that it's coming up a lot more currently, and is something we're continually discussing.
With regard to realm loyalty, what is your position on loyalty bonuses and realm timers? (Kahzee, BeefZerkee, Thor, Murmerz, CDPL, Solicfire,, Krakulf, Neikath)
John: Realm loyalty is something the team has discussed and gone back and forth on several times over the past few years. We would love to have a system in place that would reward people for staying in one realm without it feeling like it’s a penalty if don’t do that, and that’s kind of the crux of the problem. We’re trying to come up with a solution, we’re always open to feedback on that. If we can come up with a good solution, and we can fit it into the schedule, then absolutely we would add something like that to the game.
For the realm timers, pretty against that at this point based on feedback from the past and how we’ve tried having a long realm timer, we’ve tried having short realm timers, and shorter is just the way to go.
We don't prefer the penalty route. Also please note that every playstyle opinion is a valid opinion and anything we do or don't do has to take into consideration the whole game not just one playstyle, one primetime, one situation, one circumstance, etc (in general terms)
Unfortunately there is going to be a penalty, whether it is created by BS or by the players. If the trend continues, i fear that relic attempts will become less and less, if not non-existent (at least when i play). The re-design of the defense mechanism helped small man and smaller numbers defend well. That part of your planned changed worked ok. Realm jumpers were already doing their thing and benefiting from the "no timer" deal before the change though. It just seems more apparent now i guess.
The player base can respond to the forum. Give their feedback. Complain. Comply.... or Offer various solutions for consideration. In the end it may come down to monetary logistics though. If the player base continues to dwindle, patterns become more obvious. Thats usually when changes are applied or given merit. I just hate to see it go that route. Its hard to get people back once they leave....
2. Stop players entering Battlegrounds/New Frontiers for 5-10 minutes if they've changed realms but allow the PvE side access at all times with no realm timer
My opinion of this is they can do the 2nd option that would be beneficial for us all so it doesn't penalise people that are trying to get on a PvE raid. You can still access the realm but you can't access battlegrounds or New Frontiers until that timer is over i think is pretty fair. If this is a thing they can introduce i really think it would work well and possibly stop half of the realm hopping issue's.
That is imo the best plan, all this loyalty stuff with bonus RP isnt my kind of thing, i think that RP gain have been increased more then enough over the years.
Personally id also like to see the RvR quests go away too, only keep the ones that dosnt involved taking keeps and killing players, i personally fear that it to some players will be an incentive to join the winning realm too, imo it encourages people to just run others over.
If they want people to fight over keeps, then do pulsing RP tics on the keeps on a timer as long as the battle is going, there are alot of ways to do it other then quests, ways that can take player count around the keep in to consideration, length of battle, how many players on each side etc, if its posible to do ofc in an old game and with current number of devs
Encourage fighting, not just zerg this and that fast for quest updates, then ding reward, make the reward apart of the battle.
Anyway wrote a longer post about this some months ago in another thread, i shall spare you the ramblings from a old grumpy DAoC player.
Feel free to go back through the few threads discussing realm timers and find them.
But then again even when you found them you would discredit them as not being actual 8m players so it's quite useless.
You are only affected by a 10-15 minute timer if you were making sporadic realm switches for "Obvious" reasons. Other wise you would face very little annoyance from it. Watch 8m swap realms they usually take 5-10 minutes to pick who is playing what and get everyone ready. It would be very little difference of actual in game play time if you were legit swapping for other 8m action reasons.
if you are taking 10-15 minutes to switch you are trash
your leetnest is dripping--
It doesnt take 10-15 minutes to switch when everyone knows each other all it takes is maybe 2 or 3 minutes of whos healer whos playing caster ma or anything like that. Are your groups so disorganized people are just braindead afk that you think its 10-15 minutes to get out going again?
what exactly does a 5-10 minute timer do besides just mildly incontinence everyone? Thats not a deterrent from switching realms.
Not trying to deter legit realm swapping. Only you guys that swap during relic raids for the easy RPs. I don't care that you swap realms to find better 8m action that is completely understandable. But what isn't understandable is when albs or mids try for a relic back, all you 8ms swap to your hibs and make for an impossible relic retake. It's hard enough with the 8ms and the small hib zerg already. Why would we want mids and albs to log over and help them defend it.
You want us to respect your play style yet you don't respect others... that's cute.
As someone has stated in the past hibs are best keep defense realm, pair that with relic guards, grape keeps and 50+ legit defenders it makes for a hard but good relic attempt. When you add your 16-24 more that swap it makes it near impossible. Especially if we're talking about inside Ail.
I almost never swap on relic raids I think the only time I did it was one time when we defended the mid relics from Nate because screw him lol after we killed alot of defending groups when he was going into the relic keep. Its not like there are relic raids happening my play time anyway.
How about this. You if you swap you dont get rps when around mainland keeps or relic keeps. You only get credit for siege kills from KM. I'd be fine with that deters what you want to keep from happening and doesnt effect me because I rarely leave the island.
Kudos to you for not being one of those sh*tty people. And yes I would like to find a happy middle that everyone is ok with. I highly doubt anything that complicated would or could be added with current team. I mean either way it's not going to change so might as well just adapt and overcome. aka PvE all the relics like Herorius does.
It seems to me realm timers are just a side issue. The real issue is population balance. I would propose a relative cap on realm population. If one realm's population exceeds 1.5x AND 1.5y, then Z is closed. So if Hibernia population is > 150% Midgard and > 150% Albion, then one cannot log into Hibernia at all until at least one other realm has closed the margin. Same would apply for all other realms too. I realize the bonus RPs for realm population is a soft control for this, but this could serve as a soft cap for population balance as well. It would suck for those of us who basically play only one realm, but it would prevent an dangerous population flux.
It seems to me realm timers are just a side issue. The real issue is population balance. I would propose a relative cap on realm population. If one realm's population exceeds 1.5x AND 1.5y, then Z is closed. So if Hibernia population is > 150% Midgard and > 150% Albion, then one cannot log into Hibernia at all until at least one other realm has closed the margin. Same would apply for all other realms too. I realize the bonus RPs for realm population is a soft control for this, but this could serve as a soft cap for population balance as well. It would suck for those of us who basically play only one realm, but it would prevent an dangerous population flux.
This would have to be limited to NF zones only.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I am by no means a computer programmer but I would think you would either need to make this ISP based or account based. Both have work arounds and/or issues associated with them. How do you work around those issues and work arounds?
If ppl want to pay for 3 accounts to play 3 realms - let them, account based (with alongside some suggestions made by others in this thread) would be more than suitable.
For those that want to switch for better action - what they aren't taking into account is the people joining their realm so that don't have to fight them. This would prevent them changing to their realm also to effectively avoid.
I don’t see why picking one realm a night is that hard. I piked to try my chanter out tonight. Not once did I say to myself, omg, we’re outnumbered and dying quite a bit, I better log my mids. Swapping is lame!
No realm timers make for some seriously lop sided fights. No way to take relics back when Albs jump on their Hibs just to screw Mids over by logging on toons they have in each relic keep. My main question is why are the Albs not wanting to get their relics back and would rather let the HIbs have all 6 relics? Please advise why an hour realm timer is a bad thing?
First of all, let's start off on a positive note. . . . Yes I agree with you and an hour realm timer would be uber!!!!!
Albs jump on their Hibs to screw Mids over? Let's not do this. The core base of albs that we have don't jump over to mess with the mids at all when the hibs have all the relics. Frankly most Albs hate the fact that Hibs had all the relics for any length of time, for that matter any realm having all the relics is just a major pain. You mean to tell me you have not seen people jump to the realms that have had the majority of the relics before? I'm not saying I like it, but it's not being blocked by any means, and I do feel your frustration over this. Again, my positive note. . . .
My main question is why are the Albs not wanting to get their relics back and would rather let the HIbs have all 6 relics?
Where did you come up with this notion?
First of all, we would, we'd like to, we've tried. Actually we did better than try, but it was hijacked.
As mentioned above, population is a major factor. There were nights that hibs had 100. Were they all in a bg, I don't know. Where did they come from, again I don't know. I honestly didn't even think there were that many hib players, but it appears so. The core group of Alb that we have are nowhere near those numbers.
You can watch from your side, bring up the /realmwar and click on that bonuses button.
And as far as the people that hop over to other realms, that's a given. We've lost people in our bg as soon as we mention the possibility of a relic attack. Funny part is, they log on their Hibs to go defend but I'm sure they are just wanting to play with their friends. It's a joke, and we know who they are.
Realm timers - I vote yes for them. Your initial request for 60 minutes would be awesome. Don't let them toy with the idea of 15 minutes. With relics CK's now days, it's hard to even get into the CK in less than 15 minutes in perfect conditions. The bottom line is there are hundreds of people that take advantage of jumping realms in a whim and they don't want it taken away. Yet not taking it away defeats the purpose of having the three realms.
The way it is now, most don't have a realm. Most are realm hoppers depending on many factors, and some are who has more relics, who is winning, who can I defend a CK from. Individuals simply looking to take advantage.
Comments
A short realm timer is only meant to keep people from switching between realms on a whim. I doubt many players have one account dedicated for each realm (it used to be a thing in the past when we could only have one realm per server but unlikely to be common today). Therefore, having multiple accounts is unlikely to be a major component of the problem. The perceived problem, at least from an RvR perspective, are those who switch realms to join the "winning" side on a short fuse. I am not buying that Albs switched to Hibs in order to compete against the Mid BG as I run the Hib BG during US prime. I suspect people switched because we were in a defensive position AND holding our own against both BGs (therefore more RPs). The whole reason I started leading a Hib US prime BG was to bring back the three-way action, not to shift back to two-way action as has been the situation for years.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
So for:
same house: who cares no problem just each player has there own account
same IP: ya thats fine
ISP (i dont know why this was brought up who cares that my internet is com cast or whatever?).
It would simply be a timer to keep your account from jumping and logging in to you animist that's sitting at the relic. this would hopefully stop the attacking realm from going from 0% bonus to 40-80% bonus because hibs now have 2X the pop of attacking. (last night we lit one of the relic keeps just to see if this mid group that was bugging use would leave, I was stealthed near them and when the keep went of fire their whole group sat down and quit, and in a few minutes hib bonus was gone and everyone else had a bonus) so this is a real thing; every one loves free realm points which is exactly what a relic defense is when you have most of the relics and are hibs.
something needs done about this.
January 1 PM
@Flik what if the realm timer could be bypassed if realm is underpopulated!
THIS!!!
Makes so much sense, why was this not mentioned previously?
We said we didn't want them, and for various reasons.
This was during a previous Q&A and is pretty much where we are with it still, though not blind to the reasons and such that it's coming up a lot more currently, and is something we're continually discussing.
We don't prefer the penalty route. Also please note that every playstyle opinion is a valid opinion and anything we do or don't do has to take into consideration the whole game not just one playstyle, one primetime, one situation, one circumstance, etc (in general terms)
Broadsword Online Games
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
This is what I don't understand -- outside of a hugely small minority --- where is the outcry against Realm Timers to begin with, --- seems like selective hearing to me since outside of a very few, I can find few who would feel imposed upon by a timer; the entire crux of this game has been about REALM -- why are the devs intent on changing that to assuage a few? Sadly, while a timer is nice, given the current state of the game, it can only be a piece of the solution --- I really find the Devs position illogical
to Creaper --- Just LOL --- watch the numbers -- if you cant see the changes don't know what it would take for you to think it is an issue; the fluctuations are clear; nobody is being restricted from playing anything, you're simply asked to choose for a period of time --- it's a central function of the game <heck of ANY game> -- moreover, it isn't JUST a US Prime issue --- it's throughout the day and encouraged by the quest system and the <current> PVE a keep for BP daily <amongst other things over the years>.
If i am incorrect and you "cannot" log inside of a relic keep, then the issue isnt as bad as i perceive it.
if you logged in a keep you can log back in even when it is flaming
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Eh, that's partly correct regarding the 8mans. Usually, I see 8man groups join my BG for info after I make it public. The shift in population bonus is a better representation of people switching than the BG count although the BG count certainly rises as a result. It is clear that Broadsword has no intention of incorporating a realm timer as stated above by Carol. A loyalty bonus would be cool if possible to implement. Regardless, realm hopping is a real issue, primarily for BG play. I think the best course of action will be focusing on increasing the population (i.e. Endless Conquest) so realm hopping has a lesser impact on overall population balance.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
The game, and the playstyles has hugely shifted with the introduction of Ywain as the only server way back. Before that, I remember playing one realm / server for a huge amount of time, find pride in a realm, and guild we played in. This was largely achieved with one server as being an option, and be honest, people was less tired of the game looking for other realms to experience something different, or they played multiple servers for that purpose.
Back then, if you wasn't happy with your realms primetimes, or community, you literally had to delete your characters to stay on the same servers and join a different realm. When I played EU at the beginning, main 2 english servers been Prydwen and Excalibur, and yes, once I deleted every toon on Prydwen to reroll a different realm to fit my playstyle or primetime better.
So most of us argue, that how that compares to a small amount of realm timer? Well, to be fair, it's much less restrictive. However, many people I am sure got used to this system. There are really a few even I know who enjoy playing multiple realms one night, don't really having that much of a Realm Pride, and oppose the idea even a Realm Pride bonus, because then they would feel punished for their playstyle for many years now.
Yes, one server was necessary, yes, I am sure theres much less realm pride today in general (however there are a few how blindly pushes their one and only realm still).
Question is, how to do this properly? I still think Realm Pride is not something people can be enforced today. If they do not care about their one and only realm, just by restricting them, that won't change, they just have to plan better, but still would never care. There is really a sizeable people in community, who doesn't care about any realms performance, they are just "having fun".
While of course I am for a small amount of Realm Timer because of the way I play (15ish mins maybe), to make at least relic takes happen without much population shift, I think either it has to be a really minimum, not to screw with alot of people if possible, and still have to ensure that cross-realm trades can be done, since thats also what people got used to, and overall helps balance the 3 realms economy, regardless of the already terrible shape it is now.
Hope someone can come up with a really smart solution that both can be implemented without huge amount of effort, and help deal with this issue, with the bare minimum punishment on others.
it doesnt matter what Mythic said about the game they are long gone. Things change the game is almost 20 years old now.
Out side of a few lifelong zergers who havent ever played any other realms who are all these people for realm timers?
The BS should come out and say that and not obfuscate and say things in their Producers letters like:
There are three major development goals that we intend to accomplish over the next year.
1. Make Realm vs Realm the best experience possible. This means returning RvR’s focus to the combat and realm war.
I'm gonna go with this Dyn
That is quite the generalization.
Funny how most of the people in here are asking for it. Including some 8m players
"Out side of a few realm hopping irc players who are all these people that are not for realm timers?"
Either way it is irrelevant as carol just stated there won't be any changes.
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which 8 man players exactly?
Yea thats how I see it when He's saying the same thing lol. I've never seen anyone calling for a realm timer in game.
RvR is the focus... That doesnt mean realm timers though...
But then again even when you found them you would discredit them as not being actual 8m players so it's quite useless.
You are only affected by a 10-15 minute timer if you were making sporadic realm switches for "Obvious" reasons. Other wise you would face very little annoyance from it. Watch 8m swap realms they usually take 5-10 minutes to pick who is playing what and get everyone ready. It would be very little difference of actual in game play time if you were legit swapping for other 8m action reasons.
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An how do you have RvR without realm being the focus?
if you are taking 10-15 minutes to switch you are trash
by not focusing on these **** pve campaigns for one....
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I think there 2 options here:
1. You can either have a 5-10 realm timers where the player can't access their account on other realms until the 5-10 minute until timer is over.
or
2. Stop players entering Battlegrounds/New Frontiers for 5-10 minutes if they've changed realms but allow the PvE side access at all times with no realm timer
My opinion of this is they can do the 2nd option that would be beneficial for us all so it doesn't penalise people that are trying to get on a PvE raid. You can still access the realm but you can't access battlegrounds or New Frontiers until that timer is over i think is pretty fair. If this is a thing they can introduce i really think it would work well and possibly stop half of the realm hopping issue's.
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I would have to agree with you that option 2 sounds MUCH better. It may be trying to get in a PvE raid or it may be that you are just trying to transfer some plats or items or anything else. I will add that option 2 would allow people to still log over and grief you if you killed them or upset them. Personally, I don't care much about that, but I know other people do. Normally if I switch over realms to talk to somebody after a fight it's normally to compliment them on a great fight or to make apologies if I messed up on a fight and maybe added on accident.
Not trying to deter legit realm swapping. Only you guys that swap during relic raids for the easy RPs. I don't care that you swap realms to find better 8m action that is completely understandable. But what isn't understandable is when albs or mids try for a relic back, all you 8ms swap to your hibs and make for an impossible relic retake. It's hard enough with the 8ms and the small hib zerg already. Why would we want mids and albs to log over and help them defend it.
You want us to respect your play style yet you don't respect others... that's cute.
As someone has stated in the past hibs are best keep defense realm, pair that with relic guards, grape keeps and 50+ legit defenders it makes for a hard but good relic attempt. When you add your 16-24 more that swap it makes it near impossible. Especially if we're talking about inside Ail.
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Unfortunately there is going to be a penalty, whether it is created by BS or by the players. If the trend continues, i fear that relic attempts will become less and less, if not non-existent (at least when i play). The re-design of the defense mechanism helped small man and smaller numbers defend well. That part of your planned changed worked ok. Realm jumpers were already doing their thing and benefiting from the "no timer" deal before the change though. It just seems more apparent now i guess.
The player base can respond to the forum. Give their feedback. Complain. Comply.... or Offer various solutions for consideration. In the end it may come down to monetary logistics though. If the player base continues to dwindle, patterns become more obvious. Thats usually when changes are applied or given merit. I just hate to see it go that route. Its hard to get people back once they leave....
That is imo the best plan, all this loyalty stuff with bonus RP isnt my kind of thing, i think that RP gain have been increased more then enough over the years.
Personally id also like to see the RvR quests go away too, only keep the ones that dosnt involved taking keeps and killing players, i personally fear that it to some players will be an incentive to join the winning realm too, imo it encourages people to just run others over.
If they want people to fight over keeps, then do pulsing RP tics on the keeps on a timer as long as the battle is going, there are alot of ways to do it other then quests, ways that can take player count around the keep in to consideration, length of battle, how many players on each side etc, if its posible to do ofc in an old game and with current number of devs
Encourage fighting, not just zerg this and that fast for quest updates, then ding reward, make the reward apart of the battle.
Anyway wrote a longer post about this some months ago in another thread, i shall spare you the ramblings from a old grumpy DAoC player.
It doesnt take 10-15 minutes to switch when everyone knows each other all it takes is maybe 2 or 3 minutes of whos healer whos playing caster ma or anything like that. Are your groups so disorganized people are just braindead afk that you think its 10-15 minutes to get out going again?
I almost never swap on relic raids I think the only time I did it was one time when we defended the mid relics from Nate because screw him lol after we killed alot of defending groups when he was going into the relic keep. Its not like there are relic raids happening my play time anyway.
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This would have to be limited to NF zones only.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
If ppl want to pay for 3 accounts to play 3 realms - let them, account based (with alongside some suggestions made by others in this thread) would be more than suitable.
For those that want to switch for better action - what they aren't taking into account is the people joining their realm so that don't have to fight them. This would prevent them changing to their realm also to effectively avoid.
Wow, this is interesting.
First of all, let's start off on a positive note. . . . Yes I agree with you and an hour realm timer would be uber!!!!!
Albs jump on their Hibs to screw Mids over? Let's not do this. The core base of albs that we have don't jump over to mess with the mids at all when the hibs have all the relics. Frankly most Albs hate the fact that Hibs had all the relics for any length of time, for that matter any realm having all the relics is just a major pain. You mean to tell me you have not seen people jump to the realms that have had the majority of the relics before? I'm not saying I like it, but it's not being blocked by any means, and I do feel your frustration over this. Again, my positive note. . . .
Where did you come up with this notion?
First of all, we would, we'd like to, we've tried. Actually we did better than try, but it was hijacked.
As mentioned above, population is a major factor. There were nights that hibs had 100. Were they all in a bg, I don't know. Where did they come from, again I don't know. I honestly didn't even think there were that many hib players, but it appears so. The core group of Alb that we have are nowhere near those numbers.
You can watch from your side, bring up the /realmwar and click on that bonuses button.
And as far as the people that hop over to other realms, that's a given. We've lost people in our bg as soon as we mention the possibility of a relic attack. Funny part is, they log on their Hibs to go defend but I'm sure they are just wanting to play with their friends. It's a joke, and we know who they are.
Realm timers - I vote yes for them. Your initial request for 60 minutes would be awesome. Don't let them toy with the idea of 15 minutes. With relics CK's now days, it's hard to even get into the CK in less than 15 minutes in perfect conditions. The bottom line is there are hundreds of people that take advantage of jumping realms in a whim and they don't want it taken away. Yet not taking it away defeats the purpose of having the three realms.
The way it is now, most don't have a realm. Most are realm hoppers depending on many factors, and some are who has more relics, who is winning, who can I defend a CK from. Individuals simply looking to take advantage.
Bottom line is stop the jumping.