Armsman class upgrade 2018
Hey guys, I'd like to start a thread introducing possible upgrades to the Armsman class for next patch if possible. All suggestions are welcome.
Honestly I don't know what could be done to improve this class from where it currently is, unfortunately it's subpar in comparison to the other two heavy tanks and especially against light tanks.
Plate armor was the defining feature and, years ago, made the Armsman unique. In today's DAoC however plate armor is hardly a unique or beneficial feature; outside of paladins that is because they have an armor factor chant.
So what can we do to improve the Armsman and make it a more viable class in 2018? Maybe unique styles in combat? We're supposed to be the soldiers of Albion yet are lackluster all around. Possibly buffing up AF/Abs for the Armsman class specifically?
Honestly I don't know what could be done to improve this class from where it currently is, unfortunately it's subpar in comparison to the other two heavy tanks and especially against light tanks.
Plate armor was the defining feature and, years ago, made the Armsman unique. In today's DAoC however plate armor is hardly a unique or beneficial feature; outside of paladins that is because they have an armor factor chant.
So what can we do to improve the Armsman and make it a more viable class in 2018? Maybe unique styles in combat? We're supposed to be the soldiers of Albion yet are lackluster all around. Possibly buffing up AF/Abs for the Armsman class specifically?
Comments
All this power creep that have happend with items and class changes need to be scaled back and i dont think we need more power creep. After that if some classes still needs buffing then thats the right time imo, but not now.
Im sure someone will tell me how wrong i am cause they enjoy getting stronger and stronger, however my opnion will stay the same, all this buffing of everything will mess more up then it fixes.
I understand how ridiculous sub-speccing is, but I'm afraid if they got rid of that for Albion then it would make paladins and armsmen too strong. And if they got rid of sub-speccing for JUST armsman, then they would probably have to give the warrior a little /use ability to compensate them for now not having their perk (being able to not sub-spec and swap between 1 and 2h)
DAoC is great in class diversity, giving arms anything begs the question why mid and hib don't get plate, why alb and mid doesn't get moose then, why alb and hib don't get same spec 1h as 2h... list can go on, until we reach to a point where why tanks doesn't get DW or free RAs, and why light tanks doesn't get plate either?! Why would anyone remove the unique things about their class, I don't get it.
If Plate so crappy, give it to everyone or give it up for a moose or spec line. I doub't many would like that. For me, I would happily wear plate with my warrior for a few skill points for arms, go for it guys! But I want Pole too and snap shot then.
Anyways @Amp_Phetamine they honestly look pretty good on paper, and like I said at high RR I can't see much wrong with them. Maybe give them a slight WS boost when wielding s/s? That's the only area where I see them lacking
Any class can get 2h PAd for 1.3k with mezz potion to get stunn chained till 20% - or guaranteed dead if caster - to start a fight. I think we rather need to look up why 90% of solo/small man population playing stealthers, instead of buffing all other class one by one.
Hope the enormous stealther community won't jump on me, but seriously, there are more stealthers then trees in hibernia. :P
Playing a class alot often reward player with better understanding, knowing what to do in situations against various of enemies, which I find fun. Heavy tanks played well goes into that category also.
Problem comes when you take away players ability to ACT. Same as in card games it's not fun if you can't do anything to react. This is why most of casters doesnt bother to small man/solo with melee visiables getting lower and lower in numbers also, or choose to zerg instead, because they feel week. It's frustrating not being able to do anything in a fight, so I don't think its an arms problem, rather a visiable problem atm. Edit: Of course disregarding a selective few what still viable, but the diversity is low for sure.
I'm not petitioning for the class to get some super cool upgrade or ability that makes it fotm or incredibly OP, just a little tweaking to spice the class up a bit. Some good ideas I've seen are to make snapshot free to use (currently you need to spec 25? into xbow... waste of points) and the best idea I've seen, although has potential to be OP, would be to make polearm and two-handed non-sub spec dependent for the armsman class alone (it'd be way overpowered if pally's had access to this, sorry to the pally's out there).
If pole/two-handed were independent of sub-spec it'd at least give us access to more weapons. So nothing crazy, no introduction of a morph or innate class ability that makes the armsman stupid OP for any duration of time, but it'd help give the class a bit more flavor and utility.
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So basicly you want either a free interupt ability or hib LW + thrust thrown in on top ? To me that looks like a super cool upgrade.
Now that assassins have been brought up, im not sure who thought it was a great idea on a high dmg, debuffing, stealth class that can disengage combat when ever they want with vanish to give them a instant teleport ability, give them more dmg , /use % based heals, easier to use mess and so on, maybe that idea should be rethought. Personaly i dont like my assassins anymore they seem boring and easy.
I enjoy both my armsmen's and i wish instead of buffing or changing the heavies, that broadsword would rethink all of the buffing thats been done to items and classes in the last few years and actualy, scale back / nerf and remove the mistakes that have been made.
Certainly it wouldn't be egregiously over powered. The independent polearm/two-handed lines is definitely pushing the limit in terms of what type of upgrade would be reasonable. Removing the specialization requirement for snapshot would actually make the ability useful. When was the last time you saw anything use xbow outside of pulling mobs in pve?
That or the xbow line can be revamped to make it actually desirable to spec into.
But that's just my 2cents. I don't even know if it'd actually be possible to alter the polearm/two-handed lines to be independent of sub-spec. Having access to all three damage types would certainly make the Armsman unique; however, i'd say it's a stretch considering it over powered.
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When was the last time a warrior specced in or used throw weapons ? Personally i dont think people not speccing in the xbow line justify giving 1 heavy tank a free on the move range interupt every 10 mins.
Well that's why I started the thread. To brainstorm ideas. If allowing snapshot as an innate ability is too powerful we can certainly discuss alterations.
I wouldn't be opposed to making throw weapon for warriors or short bow for heros actually useful either.
Also the 10 min reuse timer for snap shot makes perfect sense at the moment because it requires 25 spec points to earn. If the ability was made free I could definitely see the timer being increased to 15+ minutes.
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same, I'm completely okay with changing things a bit to prevent OP'd. IF snapshot is removed from xbow line and given for free, increase the RUT from 10 to 15 minutes.
Is this a plausible idea @Carol_Broadsword?
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That is a complaint I've made a few times to BS. The weapon choice for crush and slash in the polearm line is lacking certainly. Other than leggies the only two polearms I use that I've found to be remotely beneficial are CL15 and Pictslayer. Astral Mordent is 3rd but it's meh in my opinion.
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I did try pure pole half ogre arms, possibly the worst straight up melee toon I have played.
2200 ws with 50 pole. From what I remember the stun was 2 stage back style, just horrid
Never like the way heavies where always pushed to 42 spec slam bots. Could of done some much more with the class
I'd have to check tbh. Afaik snap shot allows for firing while moving.
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Lol I did this once before. It's worthless unless you just run in zerg. 42 shield is such a staple for heavies it'd be idiotic not to spec it. Worse case scenario you can spec for side stun (35?) but really, what's the point of stopping there.
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What if it was increased to a 15-20 minute RUT? Would be useful every 3-4 fights.
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Basically like a small aoe zephyr on a timer but would be awesome in Lord rooms and keep fights.
The other thing I’d like to see on armsmen is the return of the stun off the parry chain and also seeing as all 3 realms got charge free I’d like to see armsmen get det 9 free as well just my two cents .
any love to anything just unbalances other stuff.
so for most part, i think we need to talk about what needs nerfing, not about what needs love.
and returning to original poster
heavy tank vs light tank
slam / light tank purges / engage / slam again / kill with 2h attacks ....in one vs one.
as a savage, where it is almost impossible to reach 2k weaponskill, i'm not sure that a boost in weaponskill is right
the two classes i play have only been nerfed. what love did warlocks and savages receive ?
heavies can climb walls, light tanks can't.
where is the logic that the highest armour class in the game (armsman) can climb a wall and the lightest class light tank armour (savages and berserkers) can't ?
I don't see armsman having the worst spot of classes atm, but I may be wrong. There is very low presentation of certain classes for sure, and their efficiency. However I personally think its easier to tweak over-represented classes, but those can result in major community rage.
Balancing however seem to be an easy job in our perspective (since we experience very minor part of the game, and have less data/doesn't care about them), its ain't that easy, and very few games can actually achieve it. Of course it's reasonable to voice our opinion, ask developers to look in the issues, but demanding instant answers, and huge buffs collectively will often result in even greater unbalance.
Some balancing always will be needed, and I too feel like its already necessary, fighting same classes over and over can also be boring after a while, but I wouldn't pick just one class of one realm for a buffing, in case some counterparts of same classes really unrepresented, we definitely have larger power gaps between some classes.
Edit: Maybe start looking around here first: http://www.excidio.net/herald/stats/class/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GG2ZHdkV972ZpOJeRlwMTeK-JCEyeCJl/view?usp=sharing
The biggest differences might be in soloing capabilities, but still worth to discuss.
Yet we can clearly tell most casters are completely useless in soloing, while assassins definitely strong in this matter, one may be the reason for others downfall, but that may be intended. It's also clear, that stealthers not just soloing also, yet overshadows most of other classes in this matter.
All this tells me so little info still, which need further discussion. Any class that hits low in every regard is probably under-powered (Heretic, Valkyrie, Bainshee just to name a few), and a class that high in every regard, probably overpowered (NS, SB, Inf, Merc, Ranger etc) but there are many factor that needs considering, like:
- Is there a much stronger alternative in same realm?
- Is it only played less because less people find a classes design less fun? (for example VW and Reaver seem to be decent yet almost the lowest population)
- A class less desirable in Groups? (Reaver again)
- It's not clear how many percent of a classes player base even chose to solo on classes that capable of grouping too.
- Casters whole another story, because very minority of them can solo efficiently, so player count and RP tells more.
- Need to include Kills/Deaths, exclude lvl 50 farm bots and buff bots, etc..
I mean look at poor wardens and minstrels surprised me, but guess with merc being OTT easy just to got fotm
Oh can just say from trying to solo on a caster, vamp bolt off horse charge and dead is no fun
I never understood why warden was bashed back then, Celerity moved to castable(not like paladin), low 1h damage and shield useless against many targets now. It is strictly a support class now, still many plays it for that with decent results, so must be needed in groups at least. Same as minstrels, they definitely bad in many places, still surprised how many plays it.Lots of things to consider, but surely they lost being solo viable.
Heres another way to look at archetypes:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EDg3cSagyoqz_KmVpDh8NmOqNm3zIp3C/view?usp=sharing
Still very low amount of data, and many ways to look at them.
Edit: Ofc archetype lines blurry on some classes
Classes (and realms) so different its hard to make sure where are the issues at with this lacking data pool. Very under or overperforming classes surely easier to spot.
Sins are a good example. You don't even have to hit the alpha strikes just mezz pot and side stun, seeing some crazy dps. My thane with 2700hits, will be on 30-50% after side stun , hybrids really feel the heat with recent changes.
I have a rr10sb, rr8 and rr5 shade and rr5 inf. Would agree they are weak vs archer types, but to I don't get this also. Just seems pointless
Still fairly accurate experiences.
Too many things came in after that patch that messed up the game a complete reroll and single class updates on one realm at a time with community input plus free to play might kick start the game.