Why are Archers getting a -25% damage reduction?

  • The following changes have been made to Archery shots with the aim of lowering their damage at level 45 and below without affecting level 45+ damage:
  • All archery shots will now deal around 25% less damage overall.
  • All archers will now receive a 30m duration self-buff, Eagle Eye, for free at level 45 that grants them a 25% increase in archery damage.
  • The net change to level 45+ archers’ damage should be neutral when using this new buff.
  • Eagle Eye can be found under the ‘Abilities’ category in the spell list.
  • Bola (root) shots will now be blocked by and remove bladeturns.

/discuss
Tagged:

Comments

  • If it wasn't clear from the notes, it's because archer damage in battlegrounds (sub-level 45) was too high. Archers above level 45 are not getting a reduction in damage (due to the Eagle Eye buff).
  • Still sort of a nerf for lvl 50 archers. Now they have to remember to put up another buff.
    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
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  • On pendragon after 45 spec the eagle eye buff was not active on the abilities list. Only when i was sub 45 did i see the buff. Not sure if a mistake
  • On pendragon after 45 spec the eagle eye buff was not active on the abilities list. Only when i was sub 45 did i see the buff. Not sure if a mistake
    It should show up now on relog. Thanks!
  • On pendragon after 45 spec the eagle eye buff was not active on the abilities list. Only when i was sub 45 did i see the buff. Not sure if a mistake
    It should show up now on relog. Thanks!

    @John_Broadsword still not showing for me
  • its there. took awhile for mine to show up but you need tp spec sub 45 bow
  • its there. took awhile for mine to show up but you need tp spec sub 45 bow

    that's the point, it should only be showing up when you spec over 45 bow
  • I feel like the buff not working right off the bat is a wonderful example of why you don’t tie 25% of a class’s damage to a buff - something that inevitably becomes bugged, randomly drops, or expires during combat.
  • Why not make it an ability like heavies "memories of war" that gives them that extra 10% hp or whatever at level 50? would be so much easier if it was just given as a passive ability at lvl 45
  • Just seems a totally unnecessary distraction and problem for level 50 archers when they need improvement instead.
  • Is it for spec or char level? If someone only wanted to spec 44 archery (I don't know why) would they not get the buff for the extra damage then?
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • Tied to character level. Damaged reduced to all shots by 25% then the buff at level 45 adds the 25% back. If it was tied to spec level, people 45+ would be penalized for archery specs below 45 archery when they only want to reduce damage in lower battlegrounds (essentially Molvik since the others are typically only used for leveling).
  • I agree with Armageddon that it would make more sense to make it like an ability like memories of war that heavies get that way it can't be sheared and you don't have to worry aboult keeping it up or it dropping in a fight. If its a buff I can see people use stat buff enhancements to make it do more damage so making it an ability should fix that problem
  • wouldn't it be more simple to just reduce the delve of archery shots from level 1 to 45 instead of a debuff / buff system ?
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Muylae wrote: »
    wouldn't it be more simple to just reduce the delve of archery shots from level 1 to 45 instead of a debuff / buff system ?

    only problem I see with that is in case archers who are lvl 45+ might not spec that high in bow and would lose a lot from this...
  • The buff shouldn’t go live. Major archery change for non lvl 50 rvr.
  • The buff shouldn’t go live. Major archery change for non lvl 50 rvr.

    This sounds like it will not work the way they expect it to.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • edited August 2 PM
    Dreamscape wrote: »
    The buff shouldn’t go live. Major archery change for non lvl 50 rvr.

    This sounds like it will not work the way they expect it to.

    How about making it so all bow shots past 45 are a level 50 requirement? @John_Broadsword Would that be easier? with all the abilities, buffs, charges, /uses in and out of combat it is already too much. Adding a buff just adds another annoying buff that people have to cycle thru.

    You would lose more people making level 50 rvr annoying then catering to the BG's. The BG's are a learning ground to get experience for end game realm vs realm warfare.

    less is more
    Post edited by Sepphiroth75 on
  • Dreamscape wrote: »
    The buff shouldn’t go live. Major archery change for non lvl 50 rvr.

    This sounds like it will not work the way they expect it to.

    How about making it so all bow shots past 45 are a level 50 requirement? @John_Broadsword Would that be easier? with all the abilities, buffs, charges, /uses in and out of combat it is already too much. Adding a buff just adds another annoying buff that people have to cycle thru.

    You would lose more people making level 50 rvr annoying then catering to the BG's. The BG's are a learning ground to get experience for end game realm vs realm warfare.

    less is more

    I am not sure you understand the point everyone is making to you despite the fact that it is a fairly obvious one. Archers at lower levels are not using high level shots. That is not possible because you cannot spec points into Archery beyond your level. This is true of all spec lines in the game. The issue is that archery damage is too high at lower levels and this is quite apparent in the BGs. This tries to address the imbalance of archery damage at lower levels while not nerfing them at higher levels, where archery damage is more balanced in terms of opponents hit points/AF etc and therefore is not an issue. I hope this clears things up.
  • DaRedANT wrote: »
    Still sort of a nerf for lvl 50 archers. Now they have to remember to put up another buff.

    Oh sweet... another opportunity for people using radar to find archers.
  • Esel wrote: »
    Dreamscape wrote: »
    The buff shouldn’t go live. Major archery change for non lvl 50 rvr.

    This sounds like it will not work the way they expect it to.

    How about making it so all bow shots past 45 are a level 50 requirement? @John_Broadsword Would that be easier? with all the abilities, buffs, charges, /uses in and out of combat it is already too much. Adding a buff just adds another annoying buff that people have to cycle thru.

    You would lose more people making level 50 rvr annoying then catering to the BG's. The BG's are a learning ground to get experience for end game realm vs realm warfare.

    less is more

    I am not sure you understand the point everyone is making to you despite the fact that it is a fairly obvious one. Archers at lower levels are not using high level shots. That is not possible because you cannot spec points into Archery beyond your level. This is true of all spec lines in the game. The issue is that archery damage is too high at lower levels and this is quite apparent in the BGs. This tries to address the imbalance of archery damage at lower levels while not nerfing them at higher levels, where archery damage is more balanced in terms of opponents hit points/AF etc and therefore is not an issue. I hope this clears things up.

    @Esel did you just graduate Elementary School?
  • Dreamscape wrote: »
    Is it for spec or char level? If someone only wanted to spec 44 archery (I don't know why) would they not get the buff for the extra damage then?

    ive never specced over 40 archery on my ranger. not saying its wrong or right, just replying to your comment
  • Esel wrote: »
    Dreamscape wrote: »
    The buff shouldn’t go live. Major archery change for non lvl 50 rvr.

    This sounds like it will not work the way they expect it to.

    How about making it so all bow shots past 45 are a level 50 requirement? @John_Broadsword Would that be easier? with all the abilities, buffs, charges, /uses in and out of combat it is already too much. Adding a buff just adds another annoying buff that people have to cycle thru.

    You would lose more people making level 50 rvr annoying then catering to the BG's. The BG's are a learning ground to get experience for end game realm vs realm warfare.

    less is more

    I am not sure you understand the point everyone is making to you despite the fact that it is a fairly obvious one. Archers at lower levels are not using high level shots. That is not possible because you cannot spec points into Archery beyond your level. This is true of all spec lines in the game. The issue is that archery damage is too high at lower levels and this is quite apparent in the BGs. This tries to address the imbalance of archery damage at lower levels while not nerfing them at higher levels, where archery damage is more balanced in terms of opponents hit points/AF etc and therefore is not an issue. I hope this clears things up.

    then why just lower the delves of the lower level archery shots ?

    i mean this system of a blanket nerf + a buff to compensate seems like a horrible solution to me and once more BS not addressing the issue directly but doing a work around that has bound to have unforeseen consequences i'm si like usual.

    i'm sick of the 'lets change something to address an issue, which requires another change due to the unforeseen consequences from the first change, which requires another change due to the consequences of the previous change' line of what seems to be BS's way of doing.

    if the damage from lower level archery is too high, just change the delves instead of bringing a new mechanic in the game which will have unforeseen consequences.

    do we really need a buff on top of a nerf to make things the same again but not really ?

    this reminds me of savage self buffs. people evaluate the class from a perspective that the buffs are always active to compare with other classes, but the truth is those buffs are not always active.

    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • @Muylae I agree that lowering the delve would have made more sense but I guess BS didn't want to put the effort in. I'm not complaining, just happy that they are fixing something that has been out of control for far too long and quite frankly should have been fixed years ago.
  • edited August 3 PM
    I checked it out on Pend.

    Eagle Eye (New Buff name) is insta cast, redo anytime, knocks you out of stealth, but can re-stealth instantly, lasts 30 mins plus duration.

    Found 2 bugs with Eagle Eye.
    Bug 1 - Says “You do 25% additional damage with archery shots”, twice.
    Bug 2 - If you have the Eagle Eye buff up, then you right click and cancel it, then cast it a 2nd time, you can’t cancel it again. (It just tells you to wait for more information)

    @Carol_Broadsword @John_Broadsword
    Post edited by DaRedANT on
    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • It's unshearable isn't it?
  • when i played in molvik with the kids i used to max my temp including resists---maybe to solve the problem they can add resist buffs for the lower levels
  • Muylae wrote: »
    Esel wrote: »
    Dreamscape wrote: »
    The buff shouldn’t go live. Major archery change for non lvl 50 rvr.

    This sounds like it will not work the way they expect it to.

    How about making it so all bow shots past 45 are a level 50 requirement? @John_Broadsword Would that be easier? with all the abilities, buffs, charges, /uses in and out of combat it is already too much. Adding a buff just adds another annoying buff that people have to cycle thru.

    You would lose more people making level 50 rvr annoying then catering to the BG's. The BG's are a learning ground to get experience for end game realm vs realm warfare.

    less is more

    I am not sure you understand the point everyone is making to you despite the fact that it is a fairly obvious one. Archers at lower levels are not using high level shots. That is not possible because you cannot spec points into Archery beyond your level. This is true of all spec lines in the game. The issue is that archery damage is too high at lower levels and this is quite apparent in the BGs. This tries to address the imbalance of archery damage at lower levels while not nerfing them at higher levels, where archery damage is more balanced in terms of opponents hit points/AF etc and therefore is not an issue. I hope this clears things up.

    then why just lower the delves of the lower level archery shots ?

    i mean this system of a blanket nerf + a buff to compensate seems like a horrible solution to me and once more BS not addressing the issue directly but doing a work around that has bound to have unforeseen consequences i'm si like usual.

    i'm sick of the 'lets change something to address an issue, which requires another change due to the unforeseen consequences from the first change, which requires another change due to the consequences of the previous change' line of what seems to be BS's way of doing.

    if the damage from lower level archery is too high, just change the delves instead of bringing a new mechanic in the game which will have unforeseen consequences.

    do we really need a buff on top of a nerf to make things the same again but not really ?

    this reminds me of savage self buffs. people evaluate the class from a perspective that the buffs are always active to compare with other classes, but the truth is those buffs are not always active.

    I believe if you just lower the delves everywhere, it heavily affects more hybrid builds that could use lower than 45 archery.

    I don't play an archer, but archery itself isn't doing a whole lot of damage. So gimping lower specs even more would have funneled archers into a single spec.

    It could be a passive ability you achieve at lvl 45 tbh instead of an active you have to keep up. But again, I don't play an archer.

    And I disagree that BGs are strictly a learning ground. They are a different type of RvR that can be fun for some people. Having OP classes there (there are already enough of them in Molvik) isn't good.
  • kedyma wrote: »
    Dreamscape wrote: »
    Is it for spec or char level? If someone only wanted to spec 44 archery (I don't know why) would they not get the buff for the extra damage then?

    ive never specced over 40 archery on my ranger. not saying its wrong or right, just replying to your comment

    Why I was asking, I only ever played a hunter but that was visi spec in a small man.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • In answer to the concerns/questions thus far:

    1) Many level 50 archers don't go above 40 archery spec. (let alone 45) and blanket-reducing their damage (without compensation) wouldn't make sense when the goal is to reduce damage on lower level archers only. There is no mechanism to only lower low level archer damage without also affecting higher level archers that use low-level shots. Hence the Eagle Eye buff.

    2) The buff is given based on achieving level 45, has nothing to do with spec-level, correctly appears in the Abilities tab, is not shearable, recasts automatically on expiration (this is why the tooltip has the delve twice, the 2nd delve is prefaced with "when expires:"), will not break stealth when cast (this is fixed on Pend), and lasts through death. Archers will need to cast it once on login and should be good for that entire play-session.

    3) No, making it a passive buff is not currently possible. Maybe in the future.

    4) Lower level battleground archer damage was already too high with maxed resists for the battleground. Additionally, giving every other class essentially an "archery damage reduction" buff seems way more unwieldy than giving just archers a damage buff.
  • If so many archers don't spec above 40 would it make sense to make specing above 40 more desirable? How about increase crit shot damage at 50
  • @Sepphiroth75 pretty sure @John_Broadsword just snuffed out all the worries. 1 cast when you log in fixes everything. He just stated that they can't make it a passive ability right now, which would be best, but this is literally the best solution for lower level archer damage, which has been a big deal for low level RvR
  • Seems good to me
  • Sounds reasonable
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • it's a reasonable solution, let's not whine
  • Did people actually tested damage on level 50 char ? Do archer will have same damage after patch than they used to get ?

    I am afraid that something will go wrong and we will have either extremely buffed damage or nerfed
  • The only thing I'm not sure on if it will be affected by bonuses to stat enhancements when you first put up the buff. Can anyone answer this?
  • I tested the damage on my scout and there was little to no difference damage wise during pve. Damage wise each of the shots had the same exact damage either with the buff or without it. However, during pvp I noticed a substantial change when I didn't have the buff versus when I had it up. Hope that makes since.
  • That makes sense. Dose that mean in pve you will be doing the normal bow damage before they made this change or the 25% reduce dps.
  • From what I tested this has no impact on pve at all. I was doing the same damage with the buff on and with it off.The reduced 25% dps only applied to pvp from what I experienced. My crit shots for exampled capped at 933 when I had the buff on and in the low 800's with it off. The elemental shots were the same. When the buff was up the elemental shots capped at 701 and without the buff the shots were in the low 600's with a few in the high 500's. However, I haven't tested it recently so it may have changed.
  • Ok thats good because i like to use my archers for pve because they are the damageing.
  • https://gyazo.com/1e80215d59058c1a53f922f5a52df95b This was in Molvik, as you can see 1k dmg is a very impressive number. 1k Dmg in Molvik is a very game changing number :smile:
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