Kroko, I know you aren't reading my statements thoroughly. There's some pretty scary math in there. A couple divisions and maybe an addition. Too bad that math is math, and math doesn't care.
I'm saying RR9 based on the absurd notion someone else posted here that it doesn't take long to get to and is easy. It's also within 25%ra's of 12. (crap, more math).
@Tyrantanic right, it's not common but it's Ohhh sooo great when it happens, and you win. That's what used to keep me playing. Then the last dregs of my guildies stopped playing, and we were unable to contest the 3fg minizergs anymore. Then more people left and we couldn't even field 8 and take on the 12mans anymore. Then we couldn't field 6 and take on the 8mans anymore, on and on.
That was a fantastic year for daoc (one of a few), got probably 10-15 toons rr6ish in just a few months. I'm all about the lvl to 50, do the quests, get the gear (all of those toons have 3-600plat templates at the time, post OW, mid curse).
To repeat that now? I'd rather jump off a bridge lol.
Give me rr parity (new server) and it becomes fun to group and level and template, and rvr without nonstop curbstomp... For 6months, then rinse repeat, take my money...
@AlaskaMike Those times have long passed, primarily due to a low population which was only exacerbated by poorly implemented changes from Broadsword. The RR gap, while large for some, isn't the biggest issue facing the game. We had a population much larger than now only a few years ago. What went wrong? See patch notes. I've watched waves of players leave the game and it wasn't because of RR. Those players are gone and will likely never return.
I'll concede that the RR gap is a big turn off for new players; however, I'd wager that the number of new players we get is very small relative to the number of returning players. This is why it was important to have EC cater to returning players but they missed their mark on that one and BS seems to be slowing down on responding to feedback. A seasonal server could help in the short term. We have three solid examples of new server population spikes that decay slowly across 6months before reaching a steady state. Despite that, before Broadsword can even embark on releasing a new server they need to polish what they have first. We've been teased about a new website for YEARS and the one we have now is WORSE than the original herald. Delves need to reflect abilities accurately, quest indicators need to show up in their correct positions, PBAOE through doors needs to be fixed, MTX items need to work upon purchase without requiring three days for an appeal to fix it, Catacombs revamp needs to be completed, etc. A new server may not help much if these problems persist.
That said, it is still easier to gear out a new character than ever before on Ywain. Gaining RR is also faster for subbed players due to the Buggane bonus. Being competitive is largely dependent on understanding game mechanics despite RR. You can call the RR3-4s killing RR12s outliers, but you will find even with a fresh server that skill differences tend to outweigh RR differences. The only players that are truly at a disadvantage are new EC players. There are a number of us that try to help out when we can but the community is so small now that it may seem like there's no one around. A new server would do more for these players than returning / current players. However, don't expect to ever have a population like we did in the early days of DAoC.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Do many of you even read what you write? Essays trying to defend the status quo. Look at the population and it will tell you that there is a problem attracting new players. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. @AlaskaMike what you say is completely true - and I say this out of experience also.
The RR disparity is by far one of the largest barriers to game play for returning/newerish who are playing on Ywain. They fixed templates via bountycrafting/nerfs to ablative stacking/nerfs to massive heal procs and revamping the King's gear.
Unfortunately it's much much difficult to "fix" the RR disparity.
Essentially the only reasonable fix would be a new seasonal or ladder style server with a limited duration (2-6 months) and rotational rule sets. This will encourage people to sub or EC play who enjoy the current rule set on the server and cannot or simply will not play on Ywain.
This brand new and more even playing field in theory is very appealing on many levels, and would offer another option to those whose who will not play on Ywain.
I am not disagreeing that a new server would be nice and all. Everything fresh and everyone can climb equally sounds great. I am simply stating you can be competative vs all these "Leet rr12" players simply by learning your class and getting a nice template. Especially in group/zerg play. You do not need to be RR9+ to be competitive lol that's just dumb to think.
95% of the time the issue I see with pick up groups is the comp. Usually just a bunch of random players maybe a few in voice and on random characters that don't work well together. And half of them are too hard headed to swap to what would fit the group better. Sure play what you want it's your 15$ a month... but don't complain it's the RR gap that is getting your groups ripped apart. You want to compete VS these 8m groups then you gotta step up and play group comps that can compete. Running random spec casters with 1 healer and 2 valks isn't going to cut it lol.
Currently sitting at my computer very confused seeing so many people saying that it's unfair when fresh/new players level straight to 50 and get whomped on by higher RR or more experienced players... No. F*cking. Duh....
I spent 2 years in Molvik learning RvR and MONTHS learning different classes well enough before I had enough confidence to try what I used to like to call "Big Boy RvR"... And I'll tell you this my first time out in NF on my rr3L0 (whatever class) I played a HELL of a lot better than 90% of the players in NF did. After my first few runs of solo/smallman/8man I realized that being level 50 and high RR doesn't make you good at all.
Bottom line is you have to invest time in learning how to play your class, and learning what other classes do. Any newby or crap player that goes straight to 50 IS GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME!
I just don't understand the even playing field these guys think a new server would provide... 3 days in the same hardcores that rip them here would be 50 and ripping them there, and more of them likely due to the crews that would return. As most have said rr seems impressive til you realise most high rr got that way by mindless zerging with insane rp bonuses. Very few rr12+ are good players and the ones that are will rip u the same on a rr12 or rr1
Some people want a new server...then they play a bit...after some months they realize "oh, so many high RR, i cant compete, this is no fun anymore"...."please give me a new server!"
I just don't understand the even playing field these guys think a new server would provide... 3 days in the same hardcores that rip them here would be 50 and ripping them there, and more of them likely due to the crews that would return. As most have said rr seems impressive til you realise most high rr got that way by mindless zerging with insane rp bonuses. Very few rr12+ are good players and the ones that are will rip u the same on a rr12 or rr1
Lots of whining snowflakes still playing this game. Outside of population, the game feels good. It is still the absolute best game for RVR/PVP IMO. Maybe if new players weren't coming to the forums and seeing all the toxic cry babies posting thread after thread of complaints, we may have more stick around.
For new players reading this thread - Join us, it's a damn fun game! Midgard welcomes you, become a true son/daughter of ODIN! Ignore the salty farts that like to complain, and get into the best PVP/RVR game ever created!
For new players reading this thread - Join us, it's a damn fun game! Midgard welcomes you, become a true son/daughter of ODIN! Ignore the salty farts that like to complain, and get into the best PVP/RVR game ever created!
Midgard is actually one of the worst realms when compared to Alb or Hib. There is little to no helping out or grouping, and the active Alliances are split up majorly. Asatruar is using TS3 while everyone else is using Discord which turns into split communication among the groups.
Very little coordination or active BG's other then the public BG that's run by @Dale_Perf.
Even @Gavner tried to run a US Primetime BG and it just didn't really work out (mainly due to pop at the time.)
I've spoken with and helped several people who are returning or just trying things out with EC and every single one of them mentioned that they really like Midgard, but can't really get any support. They end up "realm jumping" to the other two realms and work on alts because they have active Discord's and lead public BG's in both RvR as well as PVE.
For new players reading this thread - Join us, it's a damn fun game! Midgard welcomes you, become a true son/daughter of ODIN! Ignore the salty farts that like to complain, and get into the best PVP/RVR game ever created!
Midgard is actually one of the worst realms when compared to Alb or Hib. There is little to no helping out or grouping, and the active Alliances are split up majorly. Asatruar is using TS3 while everyone else is using Discord which turns into split communication among the groups.
Very little coordination or active BG's other then the public BG that's run by @Dale_Perf.
Even @Gavner tried to run a US Primetime BG and it just didn't really work out (mainly due to pop at the time.)
I've spoken with and helped several people who are returning or just trying things out with EC and every single one of them mentioned that they really like Midgard, but can't really get any support. They end up "realm jumping" to the other two realms and work on alts because they have active Discord's and lead public BG's in both RvR as well as PVE.
For new players reading this thread - Join us, it's a damn fun game! Midgard welcomes you, become a true son/daughter of ODIN! Ignore the salty farts that like to complain, and get into the best PVP/RVR game ever created!
Midgard is actually one of the worst realms when compared to Alb or Hib. There is little to no helping out or grouping, and the active Alliances are split up majorly. Asatruar is using TS3 while everyone else is using Discord which turns into split communication among the groups.
Very little coordination or active BG's other then the public BG that's run by @Dale_Perf.
Even @Gavner tried to run a US Primetime BG and it just didn't really work out (mainly due to pop at the time.)
I've spoken with and helped several people who are returning or just trying things out with EC and every single one of them mentioned that they really like Midgard, but can't really get any support. They end up "realm jumping" to the other two realms and work on alts because they have active Discord's and lead public BG's in both RvR as well as PVE.
GL
I don't understand the point you're trying to make regarding the voice comms. All public BGs that I'm aware of use either TS3 or Ventrilo. Singling out Asatruar for using TS3 makes no sense.
The only public BG during EU prime is Hero. Alb and Mid have a public BG during US prime five days out of the week. I'm not sure if Hib has a public BG during US prime, but Beer Goggles runs 2-3 FGs and has several 8mans that assist for defense purposes.
Only downside to Mid is there are no regular PvE raids unlike Hib or Alb.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
@Fateboi Sure, it's a barrier if you're unwilling to download it for free. This also means Hero's and Rescu's BGs suffer from split communication. Considering all the different Discord servers, you can't say splitting up communication is only unique to TS3. I honestly think this is a YOU problem and not an actual issue. Refusing to hop into voice comms because it's not Discord is nearly as bad as refusing to assist.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
@AlaskaMike You make good points and I totally relate to your frustration. When I came back to yhe game 3-4 years ago after not playing since 2003, it was a difficult experience. I made a skald, leveled to 49 and hung out in CV for a little bit. The thing is that there were people in CV at the time.
After that I swapped realm to Alb and made a merc to play in Molvik. Hung out in Molvik for a couple weeks just to get better at RvR. However there were players in Molvik at the time.
I made some friends in Molvik and eventually we "graduated" to NF RvR. After a couple months of smallmanning and spamming the lfg channel and not finding anyone to group us we were ready to just quit the game.
However, we managed to get Solic to invite our 3 member guild to FoH alliance and from that moment we were able to get into groups and make friends that I still play with everyday.
I think it took me over a year just to get R6 on my warden.
What I am trying to say is that you need to hang in there, develop your network of friends, pug in rvr, and go from there.
The thing with resets and new servers is that they look pretty and shiny, but they all end up the same. The pop inevitably drops by 50% in the first 4-6 months.
Basically the server strives when people make characters, level to 50, do raids to template, and start RvRing.
But as soon as a RR gap is created, people start getting demoralized over RR and ask for a reset. It is easy to blame RR because it's an external reason, you think it's not because of skill that you lose fights, it's because of RR. But it's never about RR.
Daoc is a game that heavily rewards skill and time invested in the game. RR = time, skill = time + talent.
You can design RR catchup mechanics (there are already in the game) but you still need to kill people to progress, and that requires patience.
I think this trend has proven one thing. That the community can not agree on what the issue with population decline is. Everyone has ideas on how to make it better "for them", but what if I argued that you could leave the game as it is now and increase population by just marketing it better? The game at its core is solid and fun to play when there is a healthy population.
My initial argument reason for this post is that the f2p is structured in a way that fails to entice me to give it another try, heck I can't even try it because of the 6 month window requirement (and I refuse to go straight to resub before trying out the population). I don't feel, and the numbers don't seem to state that the population effect of f2p is great enough to make it worth me subbing again. I had hoped that the f2p would be used as a population booster instead of a punishment for not being a subscriber. I just feel that rewards are preferable to punishments when you are trying to control peoples actions, and make no mistake broadswords wants us to subscribe (and I see no foul in that) but as implemented being a subscriber isn't a reward so much as not being a subscriber is a punishment. I feel that if they gave rewards for subscribing rather than punishments for not subscribing they would have better results.
Mash Buttons...Yell at the computer...Mash more buttons... /quit
I've played for 15 years straight...I came back for nostalgia reason and a swan song run after 3 year hiatus.
Is what it is folks....
Good time to come back they have rolled back alot of the op'd "class adjustments" for the most part. Technically they are trending in the correct direction, but unfortunately with a fraction of the pop from four yrs ago.
Mash Buttons...Yell at the computer...Mash more buttons... /quit
I've played for 15 years straight...I came back for nostalgia reason and a swan song run after 3 year hiatus.
Is what it is folks....
Good time to come back they have rolled back alot of the op'd "class adjustments" for the most part. Technically they are trending in the correct direction, but unfortunately with a fraction of the pop from four yrs ago.
The opposite of "cry babies" that are not willing to invest time to be able to play PvP are people who win in PvP only thanks to their gear/level advantage and don't want that to be taken away from them. So there's always two sides to that medal.
My personal idea of good PvP is that if two players fight each other, there is a base 50% chance for each of them to win, and everything else from that point on depends solely on player skill. Not everyone shares that idea, some just love their "I win" button, but generally speaking it has been shown that games who work with the player skill idea are more likely to succeed than those based on "I win" buttons. If you look at the most successful PvP games in history, e.g. Quake, Counter Strike, League of Legends, Hearthstone, PUBG, and many others, they all follow that basic guideline. All games that allowed players to gain a significant advantage over others through time invested eventually starved to death as no new players followed, since they got squished instantly by elder players, and eventually no one was left to play against anymore.
DAoC went through some difficult times back when Mythic introduced ToA and with it overpowering artifacts. It took a long time and many patches till that was mostly fixed. Now what BS did was to introduce Mythic gear, which gives players a significant advantage over those without it, and we are back to the same problem DAoC suffered back then in ToA times. Except that today there are countless alternatives to play instead. And that's why you need to care more for new players these days than back then, that's why you need to ease the entrance more than back then, and that's why many players are not willing to invest time into a promise of having fun later if they can have fun somewhere else right away.
@Menos I've already stated DAoC is NOT like pick up PvP games. It's not designed to cater to a large player base. This is a niche game since it's inception. I agree that ToA was a problem when it released and so was Curse. Both have been reined back in terms of being "overpowered" and the barrier to obtain these items (and abilities) is low.
MMORPGs are time sinks. The sink has only become shallower over the years in DAoC. Progression now can be seen in days and weeks as opposed to months and years whether it's leveling, templating, or gaining Realm Rank. Some things need to be changed but not what you're suggesting. We'll find out Friday what BS plans to do since we're suppose to get an end of the year Grab Bag post.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
To be fair I think most of the current daoc playerbase are simply waiting on CU to launch. Atracting new players to this game is most likely impossible for some of the points you mentionned.
Lol. I keep seeing the biggest argument to periodic servers is that after 6 months the pop drops back down to 50% of what it started with.
That's kinda the whole point... Today's gamers have to keep seeing the new and shiny, we don't have the attention span we did before 4 year olds were given iPads... And now those 4 year Olds are 14, with an allowance able to spend $15/month to daoc, or for the newest dance in fortnight. BS's choice...
Once it drops far enough (arbitrary level set by BS), merge into ywain. Then make a new server, boom, populations back to 100%, over and over. We have 3 good examples of this. Over and over. Now, imagine if each example actually payed money to daoc through sub access...
As a bonus, any huge patch changes can be playtested with a lot more pop than pendragon for 6 months before being sent to ywain. (hello Necro change, hello curse, hello OW, NF, NNF, ruined keeps, Toa...) and since its designed to be a temp server, the population wouldn't be nearly as angry about such changes (or just pop drop and reset will happens a month sooner)
@Menos I've already stated DAoC is NOT like pick up PvP games..
I know that. That's why I keep saying that this game needs a change if it wants to survive.
Changing DAoC to be more like those pick up games would probably kill it before it dies naturally. You'd lose the current player base and be hard pressed to get new players without hardcore advertising. Changes made by BS nearly killed the game already. DAoC won't survive when CU releases despite what you think may save it.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Yes, it will, Shaylon. The unhappy folk have already left. Curious how they pop up here and on EC.
To paraphrase Reagan: I didn't leave Mythic; Mythic left me.
The unhpapy folk left, and several of them came back to see "how EC goes" (im one of "those"). I will agree that CU will probably do it for me. I'll be gone again.
EC turned into another BIG CHANGES patch, and without them rolling back several things, then i just feel like i was burned again.
I agree with many people who have discussed this here. EC could have been handled differently. Non-paying customers were aware of restrictions. Those restrictions were too harsh. Paying customers were hit as well, which is an odd format to try to retain your subscribers.
I re-subbed to play with friends who wanted to try EC. They were not impressed and are no longer playing. I tried soloing, but all I found were duelers or zergs. Boring. I worked on some lowbie toons..that was fun while there was legs in the game. But, without that, It was hard to find fights, and when I did, my lowbies usually got stomped by the high rr, fotm, toons. The population is just to low to be much fun.
Going to play out the subscription, but I have already cancelled. Maybe there will be a miracle in the population in the next 2 weeks, and then I will renew.
@Menos I've already stated DAoC is NOT like pick up PvP games..
I know that. That's why I keep saying that this game needs a change if it wants to survive.
Changing DAoC to be more like those pick up games would probably kill it before it dies naturally. You'd lose the current player base and be hard pressed to get new players without hardcore advertising. Changes made by BS nearly killed the game already. DAoC won't survive when CU releases despite what you think may save it.
There's some truth to this and some inevitability too.
The DAoC community is severely fragmented, probably worse than any other MMO I've been a part of.
Half the community wants a Classic Server w/ enhanced PvE elements. The other half wants a pick up and play PvP experience. These two halves are at complete odds with each other. So, we kinda need to come together as a community and figure out what we want and then present it to the devs. Otherwise, any action BS takes in the future is going to majorly upset a significant portion of the population. I'm sure there's a middle ground to be found here, I just don't know what it is.
Assuming CU even releases, their entire model is dramatically different than DAoC's (CU is sitting pretty squarely in the PvP focus, with PvE elements being sidelined) I don't expect a large amount of DAoC players to convert to CU. We may see the hardcore PvPers leave, but I'm doubtful MJ can produce a project /w long term retention.
Yes, it will, Shaylon. The unhappy folk have already left. Curious how they pop up here and on EC.
To paraphrase Reagan: I didn't leave Mythic; Mythic left me.
Players will follow the population. It happens every time a new server comes out. Imagine how devastating it will be with a new game that uses the same template as DAoC. Broadsword needs to get their F2P model to work for the longevity of DAoC post CU release. I'm not going to pay two subs when one will do and be inherently more fun. If the population drops significantly below what we had this summer, then the game will be virtually unplayable. I was very close to unsubscribing but stuck around for EC. What do we have to look forward to now?
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
After informally talking to people in game it really seems like the biggest concern this patch, and what's keeping people from playing (even some are leaving) is the RP reductions and lack of underpop realm bonus. Those seem like something that could be fixed. I know Tyrantanic has already weighed in on that, but it's the casuals and those who might resub to form an 8man/smallman (and do during events+rp bonus months) who come back for that. This also impacts pop changes/action.
It really depends on how you change the game. Sure if they attempt to turn it into another Fortnite then yeah: everyone will leave for good. The trick is to determine the essentials that players like about a game and fix what they don't like.
I.E. if there are little to no RvR fights because there is just too much space for people to spread, then adding incentive to meet in fewer places would be a great idea, and maybe shut down some of the unnecessary space. If the lack of certain RAs is a reason people don't go into RvR then maybe make it easier to get these RAs or turn them into free class ability for everyone. As long as the core RvR concept remains intact I don't see any issues here. Sure, RR12 perfectly equipped players can then maybe steamroll a few people less, but that is not what keeps this game alive, that is actually what kills this game.
Sure let's dumb down game killing it for all the vets that have payed all along to get the 15 ppl to play for a extra week before they realise that rr/ras aren't issue it's the fact they are playing against ppl with 20 years of experience and full knowledge of all classes.
This is not a fps even with all the same gear your going to lose to knowledge and experience and they can't sell that to you or hand it out.
So if I get a 60s mezz and don't have purge, so all I can do in this situation is to wait till it is my time to die, it is not the issue of missing RAs?
Spend an afternoon in Molvik or CV and you'll get enough RR to have Purge. If you're one of the instant 50 buyers, then you're better off killing Doppelgangers or leaching RPs.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Comments
I'm saying RR9 based on the absurd notion someone else posted here that it doesn't take long to get to and is easy. It's also within 25%ra's of 12. (crap, more math).
@Tyrantanic right, it's not common but it's Ohhh sooo great when it happens, and you win. That's what used to keep me playing. Then the last dregs of my guildies stopped playing, and we were unable to contest the 3fg minizergs anymore. Then more people left and we couldn't even field 8 and take on the 12mans anymore. Then we couldn't field 6 and take on the 8mans anymore, on and on.
That was a fantastic year for daoc (one of a few), got probably 10-15 toons rr6ish in just a few months. I'm all about the lvl to 50, do the quests, get the gear (all of those toons have 3-600plat templates at the time, post OW, mid curse).
To repeat that now? I'd rather jump off a bridge lol.
Give me rr parity (new server) and it becomes fun to group and level and template, and rvr without nonstop curbstomp... For 6months, then rinse repeat, take my money...
I'll concede that the RR gap is a big turn off for new players; however, I'd wager that the number of new players we get is very small relative to the number of returning players. This is why it was important to have EC cater to returning players but they missed their mark on that one and BS seems to be slowing down on responding to feedback. A seasonal server could help in the short term. We have three solid examples of new server population spikes that decay slowly across 6months before reaching a steady state. Despite that, before Broadsword can even embark on releasing a new server they need to polish what they have first. We've been teased about a new website for YEARS and the one we have now is WORSE than the original herald. Delves need to reflect abilities accurately, quest indicators need to show up in their correct positions, PBAOE through doors needs to be fixed, MTX items need to work upon purchase without requiring three days for an appeal to fix it, Catacombs revamp needs to be completed, etc. A new server may not help much if these problems persist.
That said, it is still easier to gear out a new character than ever before on Ywain. Gaining RR is also faster for subbed players due to the Buggane bonus. Being competitive is largely dependent on understanding game mechanics despite RR. You can call the RR3-4s killing RR12s outliers, but you will find even with a fresh server that skill differences tend to outweigh RR differences. The only players that are truly at a disadvantage are new EC players. There are a number of us that try to help out when we can but the community is so small now that it may seem like there's no one around. A new server would do more for these players than returning / current players. However, don't expect to ever have a population like we did in the early days of DAoC.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
https://forums.darkageofcamelot.com/discussion/2919/classic-si-toa-unlock-server#latest
Then you know what the plan about it is.
Unfortunately it's much much difficult to "fix" the RR disparity.
Essentially the only reasonable fix would be a new seasonal or ladder style server with a limited duration (2-6 months) and rotational rule sets. This will encourage people to sub or EC play who enjoy the current rule set on the server and cannot or simply will not play on Ywain.
This brand new and more even playing field in theory is very appealing on many levels, and would offer another option to those whose who will not play on Ywain.
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
95% of the time the issue I see with pick up groups is the comp. Usually just a bunch of random players maybe a few in voice and on random characters that don't work well together. And half of them are too hard headed to swap to what would fit the group better. Sure play what you want it's your 15$ a month... but don't complain it's the RR gap that is getting your groups ripped apart. You want to compete VS these 8m groups then you gotta step up and play group comps that can compete. Running random spec casters with 1 healer and 2 valks isn't going to cut it lol.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
I spent 2 years in Molvik learning RvR and MONTHS learning different classes well enough before I had enough confidence to try what I used to like to call "Big Boy RvR"... And I'll tell you this my first time out in NF on my rr3L0 (whatever class) I played a HELL of a lot better than 90% of the players in NF did. After my first few runs of solo/smallman/8man I realized that being level 50 and high RR doesn't make you good at all.
Bottom line is you have to invest time in learning how to play your class, and learning what other classes do. Any newby or crap player that goes straight to 50 IS GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME!
Thegenerallee-shadowblade
Misleadinglooks-warrior
Grumblejr-hero
Danceswithdebuffs-champion
Faatkid-druid
Dont know if one has to listen to such people.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
What ever happened to people putting in some time to get the reward?
For new players reading this thread - Join us, it's a damn fun game! Midgard welcomes you, become a true son/daughter of ODIN! Ignore the salty farts that like to complain, and get into the best PVP/RVR game ever created!
something must be going right..................
Midgard is actually one of the worst realms when compared to Alb or Hib. There is little to no helping out or grouping, and the active Alliances are split up majorly. Asatruar is using TS3 while everyone else is using Discord which turns into split communication among the groups.
Very little coordination or active BG's other then the public BG that's run by @Dale_Perf.
Even @Gavner tried to run a US Primetime BG and it just didn't really work out (mainly due to pop at the time.)
I've spoken with and helped several people who are returning or just trying things out with EC and every single one of them mentioned that they really like Midgard, but can't really get any support. They end up "realm jumping" to the other two realms and work on alts because they have active Discord's and lead public BG's in both RvR as well as PVE.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
[removed]
I don't understand the point you're trying to make regarding the voice comms. All public BGs that I'm aware of use either TS3 or Ventrilo. Singling out Asatruar for using TS3 makes no sense.
The only public BG during EU prime is Hero. Alb and Mid have a public BG during US prime five days out of the week. I'm not sure if Hib has a public BG during US prime, but Beer Goggles runs 2-3 FGs and has several 8mans that assist for defense purposes.
Only downside to Mid is there are no regular PvE raids unlike Hib or Alb.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Still do, in fact.
After that I swapped realm to Alb and made a merc to play in Molvik. Hung out in Molvik for a couple weeks just to get better at RvR. However there were players in Molvik at the time.
I made some friends in Molvik and eventually we "graduated" to NF RvR. After a couple months of smallmanning and spamming the lfg channel and not finding anyone to group us we were ready to just quit the game.
However, we managed to get Solic to invite our 3 member guild to FoH alliance and from that moment we were able to get into groups and make friends that I still play with everyday.
I think it took me over a year just to get R6 on my warden.
What I am trying to say is that you need to hang in there, develop your network of friends, pug in rvr, and go from there.
The thing with resets and new servers is that they look pretty and shiny, but they all end up the same. The pop inevitably drops by 50% in the first 4-6 months.
Basically the server strives when people make characters, level to 50, do raids to template, and start RvRing.
But as soon as a RR gap is created, people start getting demoralized over RR and ask for a reset. It is easy to blame RR because it's an external reason, you think it's not because of skill that you lose fights, it's because of RR. But it's never about RR.
Daoc is a game that heavily rewards skill and time invested in the game. RR = time, skill = time + talent.
You can design RR catchup mechanics (there are already in the game) but you still need to kill people to progress, and that requires patience.
Broadsword Online Games
My initial argument reason for this post is that the f2p is structured in a way that fails to entice me to give it another try, heck I can't even try it because of the 6 month window requirement (and I refuse to go straight to resub before trying out the population). I don't feel, and the numbers don't seem to state that the population effect of f2p is great enough to make it worth me subbing again. I had hoped that the f2p would be used as a population booster instead of a punishment for not being a subscriber. I just feel that rewards are preferable to punishments when you are trying to control peoples actions, and make no mistake broadswords wants us to subscribe (and I see no foul in that) but as implemented being a subscriber isn't a reward so much as not being a subscriber is a punishment. I feel that if they gave rewards for subscribing rather than punishments for not subscribing they would have better results.
@Carol_Broadsword
I've played for 15 years straight...I came back for nostalgia reason and a swan song run after 3 year hiatus.
Is what it is folks....
Good time to come back they have rolled back alot of the op'd "class adjustments" for the most part. Technically they are trending in the correct direction, but unfortunately with a fraction of the pop from four yrs ago.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Couldn't agree more!
My personal idea of good PvP is that if two players fight each other, there is a base 50% chance for each of them to win, and everything else from that point on depends solely on player skill. Not everyone shares that idea, some just love their "I win" button, but generally speaking it has been shown that games who work with the player skill idea are more likely to succeed than those based on "I win" buttons. If you look at the most successful PvP games in history, e.g. Quake, Counter Strike, League of Legends, Hearthstone, PUBG, and many others, they all follow that basic guideline. All games that allowed players to gain a significant advantage over others through time invested eventually starved to death as no new players followed, since they got squished instantly by elder players, and eventually no one was left to play against anymore.
DAoC went through some difficult times back when Mythic introduced ToA and with it overpowering artifacts. It took a long time and many patches till that was mostly fixed. Now what BS did was to introduce Mythic gear, which gives players a significant advantage over those without it, and we are back to the same problem DAoC suffered back then in ToA times. Except that today there are countless alternatives to play instead. And that's why you need to care more for new players these days than back then, that's why you need to ease the entrance more than back then, and that's why many players are not willing to invest time into a promise of having fun later if they can have fun somewhere else right away.
MMORPGs are time sinks. The sink has only become shallower over the years in DAoC. Progression now can be seen in days and weeks as opposed to months and years whether it's leveling, templating, or gaining Realm Rank. Some things need to be changed but not what you're suggesting. We'll find out Friday what BS plans to do since we're suppose to get an end of the year Grab Bag post.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I know that. That's why I keep saying that this game needs a change if it wants to survive.
That's kinda the whole point... Today's gamers have to keep seeing the new and shiny, we don't have the attention span we did before 4 year olds were given iPads... And now those 4 year Olds are 14, with an allowance able to spend $15/month to daoc, or for the newest dance in fortnight. BS's choice...
Once it drops far enough (arbitrary level set by BS), merge into ywain. Then make a new server, boom, populations back to 100%, over and over. We have 3 good examples of this. Over and over. Now, imagine if each example actually payed money to daoc through sub access...
As a bonus, any huge patch changes can be playtested with a lot more pop than pendragon for 6 months before being sent to ywain. (hello Necro change, hello curse, hello OW, NF, NNF, ruined keeps, Toa...) and since its designed to be a temp server, the population wouldn't be nearly as angry about such changes (or just pop drop and reset will happens a month sooner)
Hello?
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
Changing DAoC to be more like those pick up games would probably kill it before it dies naturally. You'd lose the current player base and be hard pressed to get new players without hardcore advertising. Changes made by BS nearly killed the game already. DAoC won't survive when CU releases despite what you think may save it.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
To paraphrase Reagan: I didn't leave Mythic; Mythic left me.
EC turned into another BIG CHANGES patch, and without them rolling back several things, then i just feel like i was burned again.
I agree with many people who have discussed this here. EC could have been handled differently. Non-paying customers were aware of restrictions. Those restrictions were too harsh. Paying customers were hit as well, which is an odd format to try to retain your subscribers.
Going to play out the subscription, but I have already cancelled. Maybe there will be a miracle in the population in the next 2 weeks, and then I will renew.
There's some truth to this and some inevitability too.
The DAoC community is severely fragmented, probably worse than any other MMO I've been a part of.
Half the community wants a Classic Server w/ enhanced PvE elements. The other half wants a pick up and play PvP experience. These two halves are at complete odds with each other. So, we kinda need to come together as a community and figure out what we want and then present it to the devs. Otherwise, any action BS takes in the future is going to majorly upset a significant portion of the population. I'm sure there's a middle ground to be found here, I just don't know what it is.
Assuming CU even releases, their entire model is dramatically different than DAoC's (CU is sitting pretty squarely in the PvP focus, with PvE elements being sidelined) I don't expect a large amount of DAoC players to convert to CU. We may see the hardcore PvPers leave, but I'm doubtful MJ can produce a project /w long term retention.
Players will follow the population. It happens every time a new server comes out. Imagine how devastating it will be with a new game that uses the same template as DAoC. Broadsword needs to get their F2P model to work for the longevity of DAoC post CU release. I'm not going to pay two subs when one will do and be inherently more fun. If the population drops significantly below what we had this summer, then the game will be virtually unplayable. I was very close to unsubscribing but stuck around for EC. What do we have to look forward to now?
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I.E. if there are little to no RvR fights because there is just too much space for people to spread, then adding incentive to meet in fewer places would be a great idea, and maybe shut down some of the unnecessary space. If the lack of certain RAs is a reason people don't go into RvR then maybe make it easier to get these RAs or turn them into free class ability for everyone. As long as the core RvR concept remains intact I don't see any issues here. Sure, RR12 perfectly equipped players can then maybe steamroll a few people less, but that is not what keeps this game alive, that is actually what kills this game.
This is not a fps even with all the same gear your going to lose to knowledge and experience and they can't sell that to you or hand it out.
Thegenerallee-shadowblade
Misleadinglooks-warrior
Grumblejr-hero
Danceswithdebuffs-champion
Faatkid-druid
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Pulsing purge, are you mental? Learn when and when not to purge stuff and you will be fine.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<