I haven't seen anyone against making things easier for people to template @Vrisslar. But this game has always had time sinks involved in the game. If you made getting templated too easy than you might as well make it an insta 50 server. Anyone complaining about Curse I think has a valid complaint. However, when I hear people like yourself complain about OW I laugh. OW is not hard to do with a small amount of people. Curse is.
There is a balance you want. I don't want to play this game if it takea me a weekend to get to 50, ml10, cl15, and fully templated. Might as well make an instant 50 server. However, I do agree that you shouldn't need a special event to get an item you need (ghost necklace) or a BG to get some needed items (Curse). If everything in the game was obtainable with a fg or less than I would be fine. I enjoy putting in some effort to get my template. Makes it more rewarding.
Wow @Jhaerik, first time on the boards? Of course they don't want you mentioning alternative free servers. They have always been against that so quit acting like a lil kid over it and reapect the rules. If you can't see why its easier to tell a guy not to bring up free servers in an official forum versus catching people using dummy accounts and using 3rd party tools than I don't know what to say...
Wow @Jhaerik, first time on the boards? Of course they don't want you mentioning alternative free servers. They have always been against that so quit acting like a lil kid over it and reapect the rules. If you can't see why its easier to tell a guy not to bring up free servers in an official forum versus catching people using dummy accounts and using 3rd party tools than I don't know what to say...
Maybe if they actually played their own game for 2 hours a week they'd see them...
Hell I wasn't back on DAoC for 15 minutes before I'd already seen 3 macro groups...
Frankly I'll act however I want and if you don't like it too damn bad.
If they don't like it I'll simply take my business elsewhere. Like I said there are other options.
RonELuvv, your really not reading what i am writing are you ?
Guess i will give it one more try.
Im not asking for instant anything.
Im not asking for things to be easier.
Im not asking for things to be faster.
Im not asking for removal of time sinks, just different time sinks.
I am however asking for something to do to progress, other then sitting around looking at the screen waiting.
Do you belive that the entire world run on the same time zone, and all people play DAoC during the same time each day, so all people have equal opportunity to get things done in the same way ?
I have never said OW was hard, so you can laugh all you want at people like me, i have said that its hard for some time zones and play windows to find people for OW and get it done and that they have to spend hours doing nothing but LFG as they have no other option to progress, thats boring and a waste of sub money that makes people leave.
Your in a time zone ( US i would guess by how you respond to things ) with a play window and a contact list that makes things easy for you, now thats good for you.
Let me give examples again to try to show what im talking about:
Soloing 500 or more scales ( whatever amout fit ) per item, will still require more efford and time, then zerging mobs with a BG, i dont know how thats making things easier or making it comparable to instant 50 and free everything.
If you give people the options to zerg things in a BG or do it with 8 people and complete it all in 4 hours while speding 20 hours LFG doing nothing. Or option 2, people have the option to farm a currency for 24 hours /play time to get the same amount of items, hows that making things easier ? hows that removal of time sinks ?
The difference is, that with a currency a 30 min play sessions suddenly gets value, where it got 0 value now and you might as well not login, basicly wasting your sub payment.
To take this back to ToA times, when arti mobs only dropped 1 arti per kill, you had the option to camp the arti mob and kill it with a FG for hours and hope none pulled it before you and hope you won the /random for the arti, or you had the option to get credit and go farm scrolls to sell in housing to buy the arti, thats 100% the same thing thats being asking for now, different roads to the same goal that take about equal time.
If you mention a freeshard, wtf are you so dumb and mention its name directly?
Is that some kind of this *i`m against all and i say what i want* thing? Must be hard to describe something.
If you show the same lack of respect for rules over there, you`ll be faster banned as you can change your panties.
Yo you want to start editing my posts just because I mentioned **** then you might as well go ahead and ban my ass cause I'll just mention it again. I'm on my way out the door if nothing is changing so I really don't care.
You wouldn't be worried about it if you were confident you had a better product.
Why don't you go ban the 30 guys running software assist macro groups, or the plat spammers in NF instead of worrying about me?
If you mention a freeshard, wtf are you so dumb and mention its name directly?
Is that some kind of this *i`m against all and i say what i want* thing? Must be hard to describe something.
If you show the same lack of respect for rules over there, you`ll be faster banned as you can change your panties.
Let me give examples again to try to show what im talking about:
Soloing 500 or more scales ( whatever amout fit ) per item, will still require more efford and time, then zerging mobs with a BG, i dont know how thats making things easier or making it comparable to instant 50 and free everything.
Soloing 500 scales takes approx 12-15 minutes (on Hib), if you have curse 6 (solo step) completed, if not it may take 1 hour farming Dommel und use the currency exchange merchant.
Ofc, if you cause a genocid on trash mobs in DF or Sheroee Hills (example) it could take much longer.
So make a new currency, scales are just an example as i said or adjust drop rates of scales and lower the scale price of old dragon items to fit.
I have not managed to complete cursed or OW yet, so dont know anything about them, as in my play hours i havent been able to find any to complete it with yet. So thanks for the info, tho its a problem that can be adjusted.
Are the points im trying to make just getting misunderstood on purpose or perhaps my english are just too shitty...
This is about giving people other ways to get items, when they cant get a group ( pretty sure i said that alot ), so instead of stairing at the screen while they are trying to find a group or BG, in whatever odd hours they might play, they might be able to make some sort of progress other then paying to do nothing. If the currency is named scales, aurulite, cow cash, chocolate coins or whatever dont matter.
Not trying to make anything instant, easier, faster or remove time sinks.....just give people options to reach the same goal in different ways.
So make a new currency, scales are just an example as i said or adjust drop rates of scales and lower the scale price of old dragon items to fit.
I have not managed to complete cursed or OW yet, so dont know anything about them, as in my play hours i havent been able to find any to complete it with yet. So thanks for the info, tho its a problem that can be adjusted.
Are the points im trying to make just getting misunderstood on purpose........ or perhaps my english are just too shitty...
This is about giving people other ways to get items, when they cant get a group ( pretty sure i said that alot ), so instead of stairing at the screen while they are trying to find a group or BG, in whatever odd hours they might play, they might be able to make some sort of progress other then paying to do nothing. If the currency is named scales, aurulite, cow cash, chocolate coins or whatever dont matter.
Not trying to make anything instant, easier, faster or remove time sinks.....just give people options to reach the same goal in different ways.
I agree 100%, It could be something as simple as a place to farm aurulite where the mobs don't 2 shot your non temped butt. Im in the grey area on all my toons right now, I was able to get 1 curse 1-8 done but I didn't realize that none of the good stuff you needs comes from that ....so yea dunno if im going to even bother, I thought at least some of the set would come on those steps, like in OW some where some of the items come from the earlier steps . Guess ill see what happens, because I refuse to spend more money for plat. If I cant get the tings I need by playing then there is no point really
The issue i see are the following
1. PvE content is awful - The encounters have no real challenge and just not interesting to do. Curse raids have been a shambles from day one with all these different quests where players get confused which encounter they are on and then get frustrated because they either missed the credit or have no clue who they need to speak too. Not only is the Curse line a shambles but all the other quests added to it. It's been all mashed into one area and it's a total mess with battlegroup/group/solo etc. At least ToA was a little more constructive and had far better content even though players didn't like it because it was far to difficult but these Curse raids are far worse. There is no logic to them and just doesn't give anyone the imagination on how good this game really is.
2. Population in decline - This is probably to do with the summer but over the last few years I've noticed a decline in numbers and this is due to some big changes with the Pet patch and the class balance. In my opinion they should of left it and worked on the things that need fixing. The pet and class balance turned a lot of players away and instead of listening to players they decided to ignore and go with it. Now we're seeing the effects from it where players are being turned away from this game rather than returning. I'm hoping players do come back in the fall but with the late patch and Endless conquest not coming out to next year I highly doubt many will want to return on the state the servers are at the moment
3. RvR - Prime-times have been ok but if you are on the low population realm it can be rather terrible. Everyone been asking why don't we have 3 way fights? The reason it's very difficult to get that these days is due to the population and players wanting to go on a realm that is winning most of the time. At the moment during EU prime-time players will join Herorius Hibernia zerg mostly and at US prime-time everyone will join Midgard zerg. This then makes the opposition realms have a disadvantage in competing due to they are completely outnumbered. Not only they are outnumbered but once players die a couple of times players leave. This has been a growing issue for a while and this has a lot to do with no realm timers. Sadly since this was implemented so long ago, Broadsword can't change it or they will lose players. However players have left due to this problem also. There is no real solution due to the clustering but maybe add a loyalty bonus that a lot of players been asking for, for the past 4-5 years.
To sum this all up
- Population declining
- RvR becoming stagnant with 1 realm being the driving force
- PvE content is like a dinosaur
- Patches are delayed
- New and returning players are coming hard to come by these days
- Class/pet patches have made this game lose a lot of players
- Broadsword not listening to players feedback and making it their own
If i get banned for this then it shows they have no interest in players opinions but just think they are always right what they are doing to this game!
#1 Curse is a bit of a mixed bag. CH 6, 9 & 10 are interesting. The rest of the steps are OK, if not forgettable. The issue w/ 'who you need to talk to' is more or less a result of how modern DAoC players PvE, they afk stick to a leader and smack things when asked. Some of this may have to do with the pace raid leaders set (I understand it becomes a chore after a few times) that prevents people from 'processing' what's actually happening. It's further compounded by DAoC's 'classic' way of presenting dialog information. You get hit with a wall of text and you can't actually comprehend the story at the pace in which everything is running at. Furthermore, today's DAoC player seems very focused on 'push button, get cookie' style of rewards. So, needless to say, Curse will need a bit of a revamp pre-F2P (and a healthy pass of bug fixes.) I think it'd be better if 1-5 was scaled down to group, 6 remains solo and 9 & 10 becomes BG. It'd make sense to have a healthy PvE system for the PvE players F2P may attract.
#2 I think you are giving the 'Pet Patch' more than it's due. The 1st pass of it was a bit crazy, the second was milder and the 3rd was too far. Many classes were dramatically improved that have been stagnant for years and now field more respectable numbers than before. (The exception being BD, jury's still out on that verdict)
#3 A lot of that has to do with how people play & how the BG leaders run. A few of the BG leaders will do everything in their power to avoid dying, which leads us to semi-comical chases around Europe. This may be improved if the near-mythical 1.125 RvR update drops and includes awesome changes. Re:Realm timers - That's a sure fire way to make people angry. Now, they limit F2P players with a realm timer, that may be a fair compromise.
I was with you until you snuck the little bashy bits in.
- Broadsword not listening to players feedback and making it their own You lost me.
Community wants reduced sub cost / new players? - Broadsword works on making the game F2P.
People don't want to PvE all the time - Broadsword introduces PvE gear for BPs to be released in 1.125
Necro's were worthless in RvR - Broadsword remakes entire class, leaving it in a much better state than before.
Multiple classes had worthless spec lines - Most classes revamped with new lines.
OW was reduced in difficulty
Curse was reduced in difficulty
These were changes that were enacted due to player feedback. I fail to see how they 'aren't listening to players'
#1 Curse is a bit of a mixed bag. CH 6, 9 & 10 are interesting. The rest of the steps are OK, if not forgettable. The issue w/ 'who you need to talk to' is more or less a result of how modern DAoC players PvE, they afk stick to a leader and smack things when asked. Some of this may have to do with the pace raid leaders set (I understand it becomes a chore after a few times) that prevents people from 'processing' what's actually happening. It's further compounded by DAoC's 'classic' way of presenting dialog information. You get hit with a wall of text and you can't actually comprehend the story at the pace in which everything is running at. Furthermore, today's DAoC player seems very focused on 'push button, get cookie' style of rewards. So, needless to say, Curse will need a bit of a revamp pre-F2P (and a healthy pass of bug fixes.) I think it'd be better if 1-5 was scaled down to group, 6 remains solo and 9 & 10 becomes BG. It'd make sense to have a healthy PvE system for the PvE players F2P may attract.
#2 I think you are giving the 'Pet Patch' more than it's due. The 1st pass of it was a bit crazy, the second was milder and the 3rd was too far. Many classes were dramatically improved that have been stagnant for years and now field more respectable numbers than before. (The exception being BD, jury's still out on that verdict)
#3 A lot of that has to do with how people play & how the BG leaders run. A few of the BG leaders will do everything in their power to avoid dying, which leads us to semi-comical chases around Europe. This may be improved if the near-mythical 1.125 RvR update drops and includes awesome changes. Re:Realm timers - That's a sure fire way to make people angry. Now, they limit F2P players with a realm timer, that may be a fair compromise.
I was with you until you snuck the little bashy bits in.
- Broadsword not listening to players feedback and making it their own You lost me.
Community wants reduced sub cost / new players? - Broadsword works on making the game F2P.
People don't want to PvE all the time - Broadsword introduces PvE gear for BPs to be released in 1.125
Necro's were worthless in RvR - Broadsword remakes entire class, leaving it in a much better state than before.
Multiple classes had worthless spec lines - Most classes revamped with new lines.
OW was reduced in difficulty
Curse was reduced in difficulty
These were changes that were enacted due to player feedback. I fail to see how they 'aren't listening to players'
1. In my opinion firstly on the PvE is to scrap OW and Dragon's curse Campaign and get people to farm items rather than this credit system. There is so many issue's with these campaigns that make people just want to quit due to either they lded and couldn't get credit, No grantcredit for bg leaders, people falling through the floor, To many afkers. When i say farm items, make group encounters/camps that we can get items from like old times. I honestly don't want these campaigns and they are not what we wanted and seriously didn't ask for a complicated campaign. All we want is to farm draco or the dragon by itself and collect items from them. But anyhow we got RvR patch coming hopefully in a few months which will kill off the campaigns anyway which might be the best way to go since these campaigns have been a disaster.
3. I totally agree and I really can't stand it when they do avoid. When I ran a bg last Sunday we tried to get involved with as many fights as possible but really badly outnumbered. Sadly that tactic wont change because players got a mortality of if I die that will ruin my stats. That what I can't get, this game is about releasing and starting again and get back out there. That's how we create action by fighting each other but for some reason we just see it as a bad thing? That I agree isn't Broadsword problem and it's down to the leaders who lead these battlegroups but population is a big problem which is Broadsword problem
Maybe I'm a little harsh on them not listening but I do find when you ask them what changes you like to see they seem to change it to partly what u want but then put their own idea into it which doesn't make it so convincing. It's like when I asked for them to make an encounter with just 3 epic (Dragon, Draco, SI Dragon) for example and you open up the internal merchants to pick an item which u want instead they created a monster of a campaign that I really didn't ask for. But doesn't matter now since the game is close to it's end. My suggestion now is focus on RvR!
@Vrisslar -Heed your own advice buddy and read what I wrote. I said I agreed with you on Curse. I don't agre with you on OW. Now settle down and actually read what a person writes. You said that OW is too difficult and I pointed out that it is 100% not. I have never said anything against you or the others asking for things to improve, but you are mixing in some very dumb statements along with some solid good statements. Ow for example is not difficult and you claim it is. You also say you just want a special currency. Hello!! 1.125 is doing exactly that. I'm not disagreeing with alot of the things being said on this post, but you are nuts if you don't think many people here want a template handed to them. All I have said is I want balance. I want a person to have to put in some time and effort to get a top tier template (since that is the only time sink left). Now are you actually going to read my post or just see that I directed it at you and fly off the handle like a lunatic again?
@Jhaerik - Say and do what you want, but don't break easy to follow rules, cry like a baby, and then get upset when it's pointed out how stupid you came off on that post. If you don't want me to comment on your post then don't make the post.
@Vrisslar -Heed your own advice buddy and read what I wrote. I said I agreed with you on Curse. I don't agre with you on OW. Now settle down and actually read what a person writes. You said that OW is too difficult and I pointed out that it is 100% not. I have never said anything against you or the others asking for things to improve, but you are mixing in some very dumb statements along with some solid good statements. Ow for example is not difficult and you claim it is. You also say you just want a special currency. Hello!! 1.125 is doing exactly that. I'm not disagreeing with alot of the things being said on this post, but you are nuts if you don't think many people here want a template handed to them. All I have said is I want balance. I want a person to have to put in some time and effort to get a top tier template (since that is the only time sink left). Now are you actually going to read my post or just see that I directed it at you and fly off the handle like a lunatic again?
Again i never said OW was difficult, as i havent completed it yet, as i havent been able to find a group to complete OW with, so i cant say if its hard or not as i have said all along.......
I have however said that finding a group to do OW during the hours i play, have been somewhat impossible for 1,5 month and thats the issue.....
1.125 and BP's dosnt solve anything for people not in the new items, unless they find it fun ofc to get run over by rr10 stealther camping box spots for NF click on things for BP quest.
So try to read again whats actualy being said.
Im not your buddy in any shape or form and im perfectly settled and calm.
@Ciddire and @Solicfear1 - I agree with both of your posts. Solic summed it up well and I agreed with what you were getting at, but I also agree with Ciddire that I get upset when players say BS doesn't listen. Most of the issues people complain about now were things that the players asked for. BS does a great job of listening to players in my opinion. How they implement those suggestions is another issue altogether.
For example, everyone has asked for a way to earn template items while doing RvR to prevent all the PvE. They are working on 1.125 to do exactly this. However, rather than making it simple as buy items for template off a merchant with bp's and making them untradeable, they instead made a complicated system that is going to require crafting and farming for special recipes etc.
Just to be plain and clear, I've started this topic to make a clear vision what it's like to be returning player atm.
Now after twists and turnes i see ppl started arguing which is easy by some standards that players have who already played for longer or have people they know who can help them...
I would love this to remain constructive, and helpful for changes to come, also give a feedback to the BS team what are issues as a new/returning player, not fight each other.
Regardless what I've wrote I also still around and trying to make things happen, even if it's really hard for me atm, however people might find this funny.
As I've said I played DAoC for a very long time until few years ago (since SI), and atm I fail to progress, however I try. Returning without knowing anyone is whole another topic. Whatever I tried to farm (boxes, doing SC, scales and ****) got me around 180plat total in one months. Yes thats bad considering one template cost today.
It might be easy to say go do Cursed and OW, so far I didnt get any chance on my playtime to get close to even one Cursed raid. One OW raid I was, and didnt get one credit, also ppl playing today dont even try to tell what to do, so I kinda just had to guess what to do for first time... Well It didnt went well.
I am now currently trying to farm some plats and try duo OW with a friend, because well other then that I can just sit around hope that one day a week I can join an OW/Cursed. Of course I could try to spamm advice for a guild and beg for help, but it's just aint my type. I only met one guy who offered help kindly, but unfortunately different time zone.
In a nutsell, I feel like its very bad for the game if theres no other way to progress then sit around wait for Raids, or get laughable plat that while still sounds nice, it will never get anything close to what I used to have since I played daoc (multiple temped toon to fool around, with reliable solo farm to sustain my own wealth).
About 1.125 I already stated many times, we may end up wrong, but I feel like being farmed by high rr temped in an epic geared toon aint going to bring much BPs home, but of course I am happy to be mistaken. I also hope for the best.
Thanks for anyone keeping it civil not try to argue with what people experianced personly.
@Vrisslar -Heed your own advice buddy and read what I wrote. I said I agreed with you on Curse. I don't agre with you on OW. Now settle down and actually read what a person writes. You said that OW is too difficult and I pointed out that it is 100% not. I have never said anything against you or the others asking for things to improve, but you are mixing in some very dumb statements along with some solid good statements. Ow for example is not difficult and you claim it is. You also say you just want a special currency. Hello!! 1.125 is doing exactly that. I'm not disagreeing with alot of the things being said on this post, but you are nuts if you don't think many people here want a template handed to them. All I have said is I want balance. I want a person to have to put in some time and effort to get a top tier template (since that is the only time sink left). Now are you actually going to read my post or just see that I directed it at you and fly off the handle like a lunatic again?
Again i never said OW was difficult, as i havent completed it yet, as i havent been able to find a group to complete OW with, so i cant say if its hard or not as i have said all along.......
I have however said that finding a group to do OW during the hours i play, have been somewhat impossible for 1,5 month and thats the issue.....
1.125 and BP's dosnt solve anything for people not in the new items, unless they find it fun ofc to get run over by rr10 stealther camping box spots for NF click on things for BP quest.
So try to read again whats actualy being said.
Im not your buddy in any shape or form and im perfectly settled and calm.
I give up lol.
The thing I find here is I really feel they should just scrap these campaigns and put in different zones camps with epic bosses you can do with a group where it drops different pieces of loot so it's easier to make your template and get these items. If Broadsword really want people to get into RvR fast that is the way to do it rather than having people trying to find a group for OW that no one really does anymore and Dragon Curse where mostly everyone is looking for a bg leader to lead them.
Scrap the 2 campaigns and make it simpler and the simpler it is the more fun the game will be. Making these complicated campaigns has just made people sick of DAoC PvE and rather see all PvE scrapped in DAoC.
I will never lead A Dragon's Curse Campaign campaign again because it isn't fun and why should I put give my time up when I'm not enjoying a PvE campaign. Maybe some players like complicated PvE and like mashed up side quests along with the chapters but it isn't my way of fun. I mean half of the players just afk anyway and half of the time you are dragging a dead horse. Plus you have to remind players 100 times have you got a salle pet, have u spoken to the NPC and it's just a massive headache.
I also honestly feel like item prices represent perfectly the supply-demand. I wish OW was the only thing to manage somehow with 1 item being like 180ish plat (so easy its expensive), rest which really doable with few ppl worth 1-5p. While there are almost all other mandatory items beside that going 100-350 plat each which I find more worrying.
Then I am lucky if I do pickup quest 100+ times and get 1-3 piece of 40-70p item after hard farming for more then a week dying about same time as quest done. Something smells there but maybe it is just my view.
Since sharing experiances is main purpose, I just like to share last days amazing achievements.
We started doing OW with a friend of mine just two of us + 2 bots. We got stuck on Chapter 6 last time (Hel with lots of adds and fast repop), so we tried to continue from there. After dying several times, I went to spamm every region and advice for 30min if anyone can help us. After a while only one nice guy (ty!) PMed and tried to help us, but even with 3 people + 2 bot we failed miserably just again. We've tried to get people do it or at least get some help us, without any success.
The only reason trying anyway was to get something done at least, because all our other farming methods didn't get us much closer to get at least a toon temped, so still better then sit and stare the wall in housing waiting for some SC order.
I'll be honest, we do not know people currently playing that can help us. Got no guild also, and so far I managed to get into one OW raid which didnt grant a credit and got left behind last month. So my best plan is to sit around waiting for anyone in need of an SCer, or I can go farm something without progress. SCing gives me 1-2 customer tops per day, mostly 1 items needed.
In my current calculation we might just give up, while of course we won't, because we are stubborn, but feel like this welcome back in any game really takes a toll on anyone.
We've tried every farming method anyone mentioned and we can do, best results while may get something, they are just not enough to get temp in our play-window in less then 3 months. It's sad, I am kind of disappointed.
Probably the best we can do is get to know some people, get some guild, but then again it feels like begging for help, which I really don't like. We couldnt achieve anything in our time zone for more then a month now, guess its either time to start sell GTCs, or rely on other people kindness, or pity (however spamming region and advice got none of those so far).
Hope some get the struggle not for myself (I be around trying everything at my displosal), but most of anyone coming close to DAoC in current ERA (EU time zone at least). *
EDIT: * Without knowing any current players, not purchasing GTCs, or rely on others help.
Since sharing experiances is main purpose, I just like to share last days amazing achievements.
We started doing OW with a friend of mine just two of us + 2 bots. We got stuck on Chapter 6 last time (Hel with lots of adds and fast repop), so we tried to continue from there. After dying several times, I went to spamm every region and advice for 30min if anyone can help us. After a while only one nice guy (ty!) PMed and tried to help us, but even with 3 people + 2 bot we failed miserably just again. We've tried to get people do it or at least get some help us, without any success.
The only reason trying anyway was to get something done at least, because all our other farming methods didn't get us much closer to get at least a toon temped, so still better then sit and stare the wall in housing waiting for some SC order.
I'll be honest, we do not know people currently playing that can help us. Got no guild also, and so far I managed to get into one OW raid which didnt grant a credit and got left behind last month. So my best plan is to sit around waiting for anyone in need of an SCer, or I can go farm something without progress. SCing gives me 1-2 customer tops per day, mostly 1 items needed.
In my current calculation we might just give up, while of course we won't, because we are stubborn, but feel like this welcome back in any game really takes a toll on anyone.
We've tried every farming method anyone mentioned and we can do, best results while may get something, they are just not enough to get temp in our play-window in less then 3 months. It's sad, I am kind of disappointed.
Probably the best we can do is get to know some people, get some guild, but then again it feels like begging for help, which I really don't like. We couldnt achieve anything in our time zone for more then a month now, guess its either time to start sell GTCs, or rely on other people kindness, or pity (however spamming region and advice got none of those so far).
Hope some get the struggle not for myself (I be around trying everything at my displosal), but most of anyone coming close to DAoC in current ERA (EU time zone at least). *
EDIT: * Without knowing any current players, not purchasing GTCs, or rely on others help.
I think the thing that Broadsword need to do here is to combine loot and do a small encounter with OW items that you can farm and also the new stuff too. The issue i see with OW is that most players have done it and don't need to do it anymore but what I feel they should do is if they made an encounter that you could farm these items combined with the most up to date loot, people will come and run with you. Sadly since the population declined rapidly in the last 4-5 years it's going to be difficult to find players at early hours of the day. I do suggest to join a guild because likely you'll get more help.
I feel the campaigns are to much of a hassel and would be better if players farmed their gear and get into RvR like old times.
I totally agree that Broadsword defiantly need to make this game returning/new player friendly. At the moment it's not even close and it's sad their not focusing on that but making changes that don't need to be done but we're see in next patch.
@Gavner - what realm are you doing OW on? If you are doing it on Hib during American prime time I would be glad to help you out on OW. I'm by no means an expert, but I have completed it a few times. It certainly doesn't require a group, but 2-3 with a couple bots might be just a tad low.
I play on Midgard, EU prime time unfortunately, else I would already try joining @Solicfear1 in his Guild, to try achieve something elsewhere.
I not yet given up hope on Midgard, will see If I manage to get into a Guild to achieve something where I have failed so far. Yet I am kind of torn if I have to rely on other people to achieve something. Most in Mid EU time at least wouldn't help someone who they don't know, or not own guild member.
Let's hope they can come up with something that helps new or returning players to achieve getting an RvR ready toon without the pain it currently is as right now.
I think the thing that Broadsword need to do here is to combine loot and do a small encounter with OW items that you can farm and also the new stuff too. The issue i see with OW is that most players have done it and don't need to do it anymore but what I feel they should do is if they made an encounter that you could farm these items combined with the most up to date loot, people will come and run with you. Sadly since the population declined rapidly in the last 4-5 years it's going to be difficult to find players at early hours of the day. I do suggest to join a guild because likely you'll get more help.
I feel the campaigns are to much of a hassel and would be better if players farmed their gear and get into RvR like old times.
I totally agree that Broadsword defiantly need to make this game returning/new player friendly. At the moment it's not even close and it's sad their not focusing on that but making changes that don't need to be done but we're see in next patch.
Sounds like a solid plan.
@Gavner Yeah our attempt sadly didnt end great last night .
Any chance for a comment, on all thise different and good ideas in this thread Broadsword ?
It might just be me being odd, i just think it would help retain your current player base, and perhaps get some people to return, if the players would have some sort of idea where Broadsword stand with things and what the future might hold ?
I know you cant give any concrete plan and make a decisions right here and now on things, but are you listening and finding any of this useful ?
For us to give you feedback, it would be nice to have some feedback on our ideas and what you think / might see as problems in what we are saying, so we could refine our ideas and try to talk about solutions ?
We all love DAoC and got a history with it, if we the players and Broadsword agree on things or not, or player to player agree on things or not, we might still be able to help each other in a common goal of saving DAoC ?
Edit:
Deleted a part that i was told could be misunderstood, even tho it was ment nicely lol...
I am really glad if you can see some constructive ideas and feedback here. Hope you can find some good solution. Looking forward hearing from it as soon you have anything that can be shared.
@Juzzo - That sounds like a good idea at first, but that is not fair to new players. All this would help is people that have tons of BP's on tons of alt's. I think they should be untradeable, even via the same account.
However, one way to look at is how I plan to help my friends who are new players out. One of them made a ranger. I plan on giving her all of my actual template stuff that I can replace with BP gear since I will be at the maximum amount. Then I just make and use the bp gear.
No reason to let every player with all these bp's sitting around template out 20 alts. If you want to template out a toon then take it out and play on it. As I said up above, I'm all about making it easier to template new players and toons without doing PvE, but it shouldn't be as easy as loading in your main and using all the bp's to template alts. If you want to template a toon it should require some time commitment. The crafting is stupid, but on the flip side you only need to level it to the 200-300's. The alchemy requirement is tradeable so only one toon would need to do that.
In a nutsell, I feel like its very bad for the game if theres no other way to progress then sit around wait for Raids, or get laughable plat that while still sounds nice, it will never get anything close to what I used to have since I played daoc (multiple temped toon to fool around, with reliable solo farm to sustain my own wealth).
About 1.125 I already stated many times, we may end up wrong, but I feel like being farmed by high rr temped in an epic geared toon aint going to bring much BPs home, but of course I am happy to be mistaken. I also hope for the best.
Thanks for anyone keeping it civil not try to argue with what people experianced personly.
Two points that need to be considered and potentially expanded on -
#1 If they gut Curse too much (make it too easy) that removes any 'difficult' PvE from the game and will turn away any potential PvE players from joining come F2P. I suspect that once there's a boost in population, Curse raids will be much more common (and if not, it make sense to change that THEN as opposed to NOW) So, I understand your frustrations, but I'm not sure changes should be made BEFORE the F2P stuff.
#2 BP Curse gear is offered as an alternative, there's never been any claims it'll be easier to get. By all accounts, it looks like it'll be MUCH easier to just do Curse than it would to do it via BPs.
I understand what you’re saying, but is there really people that are going to f2p daoc for the pve? It’s never really been known for its pve and I think it would be more marketable by making it really focused on pvp combat and getting these f2p people to the end game pvp as fast as possible. I’m not saying give away free everything, but having stuff farmable on demand, such as scales or another currency that’s farmable solo/duo would be ideal. Bg encounters obviously don’t work and are very obviously not BS’s strong suit lol. With the free time most who would even be interested in DAOC at this point, having to do things on a schedule is very hard to do, especially with pop so low and so many different time zones. By having stuff you can just login at your leisure and be able to farm on your own with a bot or with a 2-3 man group would be ideal.
#1 I don't think any of us want to gut PvE, we never stated that. At least I am one of odd players who enjoy DAoC mechanics PvE too. I already stated my issues atm, and yes the lack of Cursed raid accessability is one of them. However I cant speak from personal experiance (because I never managed to do it), but leaders don't really like Cursed, nor players for its fun factor, but rather don't like because its issues, its just the neccesary evil - from what i've red -. Endgame content should exist, I just suggested to give option to progress PvE endgame also without the neccesity of doing this Raid because (atm) it's kind of rare. People who have access to it occasionaly make huge fortunes since it got items with main interest from players, since it's neccesary to be competitive on RvR (not PvE exclusively). However getting these items with plat do exist too, but due its accessability, and no other way to get those items make any other effort lackluster.
#2 BP Curse will surely help, and of course as you stated it should be harder then just go to a Raid. I think thats reasonable, because at least players can make progress regardless of Raid availability. Since we know no details there can't comment on if its reasonably priced or not.
My point is, like we had currencies many times which worked to balance Raid and Small man content, PvE currencys that can be made progress on should also help alot, at least to farm plat, and get mandatory items. Currently existing currencys either has no value because it cant really be farmed efficently compared to Raids, or just the items not desired anymore.
No one asks for instant gratification, we ask for progress that can be made PvE or PvP (likely both) instead of staring callendars achieving nothing.
Also while its a possibility some new player also end up enjoying PvE like many of us do, doubt majority of people will be attracted to that. There are many games that offer Raid content PvE, and focused on that far more extent.
Will see what Broadsword up to, and hope we can make decent feedback on that.
@Juzzo - That sounds like a good idea at first, but that is not fair to new players. All this would help is people that have tons of BP's on tons of alt's. I think they should be untradeable, even via the same account.
However, one way to look at is how I plan to help my friends who are new players out. One of them made a ranger. I plan on giving her all of my actual template stuff that I can replace with BP gear since I will be at the maximum amount. Then I just make and use the bp gear.
No reason to let every player with all these bp's sitting around template out 20 alts. If you want to template out a toon then take it out and play on it. As I said up above, I'm all about making it easier to template new players and toons without doing PvE, but it shouldn't be as easy as loading in your main and using all the bp's to template alts. If you want to template a toon it should require some time commitment. The crafting is stupid, but on the flip side you only need to level it to the 200-300's. The alchemy requirement is tradeable so only one toon would need to do that.
All of my toons are templated i was thinking more along the lines of someone who only has a main but maybe thought about making alts.
I agree, my toons that have bps already have all of the gear they need. I guess it helps replace them when they break, but other than that it won’t help the alts I want to make.
I understand what you’re saying, but is there really people that are going to f2p daoc for the pve? It’s never really been known for its pve and I think it would be more marketable by making it really focused on pvp combat and getting these f2p people to the end game pvp as fast as possible. I’m not saying give away free everything, but having stuff farmable on demand, such as scales or another currency that’s farmable solo/duo would be ideal. Bg encounters obviously don’t work and are very obviously not BS’s strong suit lol. With the free time most who would even be interested in DAOC at this point, having to do things on a schedule is very hard to do, especially with pop so low and so many different time zones. By having stuff you can just login at your leisure and be able to farm on your own with a bot or with a 2-3 man group would be ideal.
Killing off the PvE population removed a lot of buffer from the game. Without PvErs, you end up with severe price inflation, massive skill gaps and lack of crafting. There's obviously a large segment of players out there looking for nostalgic PvE in MMOs (See WoW, WoW Classic and other things ) and there isn't a reason they couldn't be courted along side the PvPer.
Probably a fair compromise would be to increase the Aurulite drops off of NPCs in the Cata zones, add set items to the merchant NPCs and leave the bracer and gloves the way they are now? That way you could farm Aurulite to purchase set items AND keep enough incentive for people to do the Curse quests.
DAoC's greatest weakness has always been its greatest potential asset. - It's lack of advertising.
With a bit of modernization and polish, you could easily pull people who never played the game before. There's 1000s of hours of content in DAoC that many people never got to experience. That can be turned into a massive asset for the future of the game. There's some awesome quests and zones that have laid un-touched (almost for decades) that could be re-tooled into engaging PvE experiences with little effort from the development team.
I understand what you’re saying, but is there really people that are going to f2p daoc for the pve? It’s never really been known for its pve and I think it would be more marketable by making it really focused on pvp combat and getting these f2p people to the end game pvp as fast as possible. I’m not saying give away free everything, but having stuff farmable on demand, such as scales or another currency that’s farmable solo/duo would be ideal. Bg encounters obviously don’t work and are very obviously not BS’s strong suit lol. With the free time most who would even be interested in DAOC at this point, having to do things on a schedule is very hard to do, especially with pop so low and so many different time zones. By having stuff you can just login at your leisure and be able to farm on your own with a bot or with a 2-3 man group would be ideal.
Killing off the PvE population removed a lot of buffer from the game. Without PvErs, you end up with severe price inflation, massive skill gaps and lack of crafting. There's obviously a large segment of players out there looking for nostalgic PvE in MMOs (See WoW, WoW Classic and other things ) and there isn't a reason they couldn't be courted along side the PvPer.
Probably a fair compromise would be to increase the Aurulite drops off of NPCs in the Cata zones, add set items to the merchant NPCs and leave the bracer and gloves the way they are now? That way you could farm Aurulite to purchase set items AND keep enough incentive for people to do the Curse quests.
DAoC's greatest weakness has always been its greatest potential asset. - It's lack of advertising.
With a bit of modernization and polish, you could easily pull people who never played the game before. There's 1000s of hours of content in DAoC that many people never got to experience. That can be turned into a massive asset for the future of the game. There's some awesome quests and zones that have laid un-touched (almost for decades) that could be re-tooled into engaging PvE experiences with little effort from the development team.
All they need to do is bring back what was fun in DAoC by farming the dragon, draco, Summers Hall and DF. We don't need these different currencies like Blood Seals, Aurulite, BPs. It's just confusing and generally stacks up your inventory which can be annoying. Just do like old times where we kill draco and let the loot drop and none of this credit nonsense. The reason we've had so many problems is because this is far to much like Master levels raids where credit gets bugged and people ld etc which made people quit daoc. I honestly loved Master levels but I have to agree I can see from these Curse raids why people quit if they had no grantcredit system in place for BG leaders.
Broadsword have ruled out that they are going to give a grantcredit system and it's really made Curse raids into a nightmare. If you wants people to enjoy raids you need to find an alternative if something goes wrong and I'm afraid BG leaders have no choice but to keep repeating the encounter 3-4 times until that person get's credit. Why on earth should people wait around for that? why can we just make it simple and just allow these players that did miss credit to get it granted to them?
I would rather see these campaigns scrapped and just bring oldschool events back with updated loot. As i said in my previous posts. Broadsword have made the PvE to complicated for players and their themselves. If you look back in DAoC history you don't need to make it complicated like ToA to have some decent PvE. Just stick an epic mob in an area and get players to kill it. People will love it we could go back to group setups like we with the Dragon in Dartmoor. We only needed a group and it was great fun killing it but that's what DAoC missing and yes you can say that Dragon curse has group encounters but again people wont complete it because it takes to long. Farming items takes less time and can be farmed anytime where if you don't complete the dragon curse group encounters you have to start all over again.
Pretty much agree on everything @Solicfear1 is saying again.
I know im most likely in a minority group with the following, but i have never been a fan of quests, i miss the days of group up and kill stuff, i miss the day of release when you could enter pretty much any dungeon with any class and get a group within 15 mins and have fun, getting to know people and build friendships while resting as well as killing.
I know DAoC dosnt have the population to be like that anymore, i just dont like quests lol, i enjoy and find it relaxing just grinding or grouping and farming nameds. So if that could return in some way to the game id be really happy.
All this running around talking to NPCs and worrying about credit, while people rush ahead, dosnt build much community or friendships i think.
For me personal, i just find group / BG quests frustrating, thats just me tho and i know not many people seem to share my opinion on that.
Pretty much agree on everything @Solicfear1 is saying again.
I know im most likely in a minority group with the following, but i have never been a fan of quests, i miss the days of group up and kill stuff, i miss the day of release when you could enter pretty much any dungeon with any class and get a group within 15 mins and have fun, getting to know people and build friendships while resting as well as killing.
I know DAoC dosnt have the population to be like that anymore, i just dont like quests lol, i enjoy and find it relaxing just grinding or grouping and farming nameds. So if that could return in some way to the game id be really happy.
All this running around talking to NPCs and worrying about credit, while people rush ahead, dosnt build much community or friendships i think.
For me personal, i just find group / BG quests frustrating, thats just me tho and i know not many people seem to share my opinion on that.
Totally agree in fact these new campaigns are turning people away. These campaigns have made a mess of PvE and has built less friendships and more selfishness. If we could go back to just killing named bosses this game would be far better and that;s what this game was built for. Trying to turn this into WoW will never work and people don't want WoW PvE. They want to farm for gear and go out to RvR not run this complicated BG campaign.
I will be honest I loved battlegroup stuff before but after OW and Curse it has made me realise why we shouldn't have battlegroup PvE in this game.
Just returned to the game with big expectations. After 1 week i have already lost faith - Not once have I been outside BG's or NF for a dungeon run or just chillin at the market searching for gear i could pay for - All because I know it's too expensive, and my lack of expertice worries my mind before searching for PVE raids. Running around with "bad" gear and low RR scares me away from any interaction with fellow players. And when asking how to get a template, every answer is pay up. Alot.
having found 40PP all together on my characters is not enough for one piece.
The times when you just had to search the marked for malevolent gear that for no money had the quickness or heat resistance you needed that time was perfect - in the sense of feeling "good" enough to head out for an adventure in Molvik. Now i'm getting smashed while wearing BP-outfit.
I am prob leaving after this months sub.
If anything changes for the better (for newcommers and returners) I might return
lets be honest, inserting curse tokens took a massive hit to the amount of curse raids leaded since "experienced" ppl just buy credits with bps, it was a big hit for returning players, eu time went down from like 1 curse raid a day to like 2-3 max per week, if so, during eu prime time. simple fact is those that lead raids before just buy it with bps now.
@Gavner join nevermore to get ow grps going, collect plants in ow and craft pots and get discord! pm me there and we gonna find a date to run curse and ow (probably on same evening) im only gonna do curse raids if im getting asked for it tbh, cause of tokens there no other reason for me to run them if not 1-2 ppl ask me for it and if we start it numbers will come, so pm me plz on discord @Gavner i play eu prime time also
and i think about to run it on friday evening eu prime time, let me know if that works
@Gig
Thanks for offer, I just joined The Scarlet Knights, they are lovely people, hope we can do OW one day, then going to farm those.
I think Cursed Raids already rarer then 2-3/week on EU prime, not much use callendar, or discord also, just spamm region in 1-2 hours before start, so its really easy to miss on that
I have also heard ppl farm aurulite in some Cursed place, guess it's not the entrance, because went down to kill hard hitting mobs, but they rarely drop, so it's not consistent. Wonder buying BP gives me access to some Cursed place farm also.
@jusiabera
If you on Mid, me and friend play there, PM me here and we might get something done together, also can help you. Meanwhile join Gig, I hope we can help you through it. BS definately going to at least provide some sort of solution (good or bad) in future, but we can try make it happpen until.
@Gavner@Gig
thanks a lot - i have already joined forest of Nevermore, since i'm playing Hib
The guild is so friendly, excited about this. Playing on 'Rolago' atm, hope to see you in the game
So thought i would give a small update from my experience, as a returning player during my play hours of the day.
After 2 months of being back i finaly managed to do the following with OW:
2 x chap 1 - 9 on Mid
1 x chap 1 - 9 on Hib
No luck on Alb yet and no luck at all with the EV quest.
Personally i still dont like OW, out of the 3 chap 1-9 runs, 1 of them went smooth, the other 2 was a mess of repeated kills, people not talking and getting credit.
So still no OW completed fully.
Cursed update:
Managed 1 run on mid chap 1 - 8, 3 hours of repeated kills, waiting for LD's, AFK's and stuff, this i am never going to do again, id rather quit at the end of my sub then repeat that mess ever again.
2 months in, still no RvR ready char.
Personally i still prefer some sort of tokens you have to farm or as @Solicfear1 have suggested, some farmable mobs that drop the items, instead of this credit hell hole.
Comments
There is a balance you want. I don't want to play this game if it takea me a weekend to get to 50, ml10, cl15, and fully templated. Might as well make an instant 50 server. However, I do agree that you shouldn't need a special event to get an item you need (ghost necklace) or a BG to get some needed items (Curse). If everything in the game was obtainable with a fg or less than I would be fine. I enjoy putting in some effort to get my template. Makes it more rewarding.
Maybe if they actually played their own game for 2 hours a week they'd see them...
Hell I wasn't back on DAoC for 15 minutes before I'd already seen 3 macro groups...
Frankly I'll act however I want and if you don't like it too damn bad.
If they don't like it I'll simply take my business elsewhere. Like I said there are other options.
[ToS]
Guess i will give it one more try.
Im not asking for instant anything.
Im not asking for things to be easier.
Im not asking for things to be faster.
Im not asking for removal of time sinks, just different time sinks.
I am however asking for something to do to progress, other then sitting around looking at the screen waiting.
Do you belive that the entire world run on the same time zone, and all people play DAoC during the same time each day, so all people have equal opportunity to get things done in the same way ?
I have never said OW was hard, so you can laugh all you want at people like me, i have said that its hard for some time zones and play windows to find people for OW and get it done and that they have to spend hours doing nothing but LFG as they have no other option to progress, thats boring and a waste of sub money that makes people leave.
Your in a time zone ( US i would guess by how you respond to things ) with a play window and a contact list that makes things easy for you, now thats good for you.
Let me give examples again to try to show what im talking about:
Soloing 500 or more scales ( whatever amout fit ) per item, will still require more efford and time, then zerging mobs with a BG, i dont know how thats making things easier or making it comparable to instant 50 and free everything.
If you give people the options to zerg things in a BG or do it with 8 people and complete it all in 4 hours while speding 20 hours LFG doing nothing. Or option 2, people have the option to farm a currency for 24 hours /play time to get the same amount of items, hows that making things easier ? hows that removal of time sinks ?
The difference is, that with a currency a 30 min play sessions suddenly gets value, where it got 0 value now and you might as well not login, basicly wasting your sub payment.
To take this back to ToA times, when arti mobs only dropped 1 arti per kill, you had the option to camp the arti mob and kill it with a FG for hours and hope none pulled it before you and hope you won the /random for the arti, or you had the option to get credit and go farm scrolls to sell in housing to buy the arti, thats 100% the same thing thats being asking for now, different roads to the same goal that take about equal time.
If you mention a freeshard, wtf are you so dumb and mention its name directly?
Is that some kind of this *i`m against all and i say what i want* thing? Must be hard to describe something.
If you show the same lack of respect for rules over there, you`ll be faster banned as you can change your panties.
[tos]
Soloing 500 scales takes approx 12-15 minutes (on Hib), if you have curse 6 (solo step) completed, if not it may take 1 hour farming Dommel und use the currency exchange merchant.
Ofc, if you cause a genocid on trash mobs in DF or Sheroee Hills (example) it could take much longer.
I have not managed to complete cursed or OW yet, so dont know anything about them, as in my play hours i havent been able to find any to complete it with yet. So thanks for the info, tho its a problem that can be adjusted.
Are the points im trying to make just getting misunderstood on purpose or perhaps my english are just too shitty...
This is about giving people other ways to get items, when they cant get a group ( pretty sure i said that alot ), so instead of stairing at the screen while they are trying to find a group or BG, in whatever odd hours they might play, they might be able to make some sort of progress other then paying to do nothing. If the currency is named scales, aurulite, cow cash, chocolate coins or whatever dont matter.
Not trying to make anything instant, easier, faster or remove time sinks.....just give people options to reach the same goal in different ways.
I agree 100%, It could be something as simple as a place to farm aurulite where the mobs don't 2 shot your non temped butt. Im in the grey area on all my toons right now, I was able to get 1 curse 1-8 done but I didn't realize that none of the good stuff you needs comes from that ....so yea dunno if im going to even bother, I thought at least some of the set would come on those steps, like in OW some where some of the items come from the earlier steps
1. PvE content is awful - The encounters have no real challenge and just not interesting to do. Curse raids have been a shambles from day one with all these different quests where players get confused which encounter they are on and then get frustrated because they either missed the credit or have no clue who they need to speak too. Not only is the Curse line a shambles but all the other quests added to it. It's been all mashed into one area and it's a total mess with battlegroup/group/solo etc. At least ToA was a little more constructive and had far better content even though players didn't like it because it was far to difficult but these Curse raids are far worse. There is no logic to them and just doesn't give anyone the imagination on how good this game really is.
2. Population in decline - This is probably to do with the summer but over the last few years I've noticed a decline in numbers and this is due to some big changes with the Pet patch and the class balance. In my opinion they should of left it and worked on the things that need fixing. The pet and class balance turned a lot of players away and instead of listening to players they decided to ignore and go with it. Now we're seeing the effects from it where players are being turned away from this game rather than returning. I'm hoping players do come back in the fall but with the late patch and Endless conquest not coming out to next year I highly doubt many will want to return on the state the servers are at the moment
3. RvR - Prime-times have been ok but if you are on the low population realm it can be rather terrible. Everyone been asking why don't we have 3 way fights? The reason it's very difficult to get that these days is due to the population and players wanting to go on a realm that is winning most of the time. At the moment during EU prime-time players will join Herorius Hibernia zerg mostly and at US prime-time everyone will join Midgard zerg. This then makes the opposition realms have a disadvantage in competing due to they are completely outnumbered. Not only they are outnumbered but once players die a couple of times players leave. This has been a growing issue for a while and this has a lot to do with no realm timers. Sadly since this was implemented so long ago, Broadsword can't change it or they will lose players. However players have left due to this problem also. There is no real solution due to the clustering but maybe add a loyalty bonus that a lot of players been asking for, for the past 4-5 years.
To sum this all up
- Population declining
- RvR becoming stagnant with 1 realm being the driving force
- PvE content is like a dinosaur
- Patches are delayed
- New and returning players are coming hard to come by these days
- Class/pet patches have made this game lose a lot of players
- Broadsword not listening to players feedback and making it their own
If i get banned for this then it shows they have no interest in players opinions but just think they are always right what they are doing to this game!
#1 Curse is a bit of a mixed bag. CH 6, 9 & 10 are interesting. The rest of the steps are OK, if not forgettable. The issue w/ 'who you need to talk to' is more or less a result of how modern DAoC players PvE, they afk stick to a leader and smack things when asked. Some of this may have to do with the pace raid leaders set (I understand it becomes a chore after a few times) that prevents people from 'processing' what's actually happening. It's further compounded by DAoC's 'classic' way of presenting dialog information. You get hit with a wall of text and you can't actually comprehend the story at the pace in which everything is running at. Furthermore, today's DAoC player seems very focused on 'push button, get cookie' style of rewards. So, needless to say, Curse will need a bit of a revamp pre-F2P (and a healthy pass of bug fixes.) I think it'd be better if 1-5 was scaled down to group, 6 remains solo and 9 & 10 becomes BG. It'd make sense to have a healthy PvE system for the PvE players F2P may attract.
#2 I think you are giving the 'Pet Patch' more than it's due. The 1st pass of it was a bit crazy, the second was milder and the 3rd was too far. Many classes were dramatically improved that have been stagnant for years and now field more respectable numbers than before. (The exception being BD, jury's still out on that verdict)
#3 A lot of that has to do with how people play & how the BG leaders run. A few of the BG leaders will do everything in their power to avoid dying, which leads us to semi-comical chases around Europe. This may be improved if the near-mythical 1.125 RvR update drops and includes awesome changes. Re:Realm timers - That's a sure fire way to make people angry. Now, they limit F2P players with a realm timer, that may be a fair compromise.
I was with you until you snuck the little bashy bits in.
- Broadsword not listening to players feedback and making it their own You lost me.
Community wants reduced sub cost / new players? - Broadsword works on making the game F2P.
People don't want to PvE all the time - Broadsword introduces PvE gear for BPs to be released in 1.125
Necro's were worthless in RvR - Broadsword remakes entire class, leaving it in a much better state than before.
Multiple classes had worthless spec lines - Most classes revamped with new lines.
OW was reduced in difficulty
Curse was reduced in difficulty
These were changes that were enacted due to player feedback. I fail to see how they 'aren't listening to players'
1. In my opinion firstly on the PvE is to scrap OW and Dragon's curse Campaign and get people to farm items rather than this credit system. There is so many issue's with these campaigns that make people just want to quit due to either they lded and couldn't get credit, No grantcredit for bg leaders, people falling through the floor, To many afkers. When i say farm items, make group encounters/camps that we can get items from like old times. I honestly don't want these campaigns and they are not what we wanted and seriously didn't ask for a complicated campaign. All we want is to farm draco or the dragon by itself and collect items from them. But anyhow we got RvR patch coming hopefully in a few months which will kill off the campaigns anyway which might be the best way to go since these campaigns have been a disaster.
3. I totally agree and I really can't stand it when they do avoid. When I ran a bg last Sunday we tried to get involved with as many fights as possible but really badly outnumbered. Sadly that tactic wont change because players got a mortality of if I die that will ruin my stats. That what I can't get, this game is about releasing and starting again and get back out there. That's how we create action by fighting each other but for some reason we just see it as a bad thing? That I agree isn't Broadsword problem and it's down to the leaders who lead these battlegroups but population is a big problem which is Broadsword problem
Maybe I'm a little harsh on them not listening but I do find when you ask them what changes you like to see they seem to change it to partly what u want but then put their own idea into it which doesn't make it so convincing. It's like when I asked for them to make an encounter with just 3 epic (Dragon, Draco, SI Dragon) for example and you open up the internal merchants to pick an item which u want instead they created a monster of a campaign that I really didn't ask for. But doesn't matter now since the game is close to it's end. My suggestion now is focus on RvR!
Again i never said OW was difficult, as i havent completed it yet, as i havent been able to find a group to complete OW with, so i cant say if its hard or not as i have said all along.......
I have however said that finding a group to do OW during the hours i play, have been somewhat impossible for 1,5 month and thats the issue.....
1.125 and BP's dosnt solve anything for people not in the new items, unless they find it fun ofc to get run over by rr10 stealther camping box spots for NF click on things for BP quest.
So try to read again whats actualy being said.
Im not your buddy in any shape or form and im perfectly settled and calm.
I give up lol.
For example, everyone has asked for a way to earn template items while doing RvR to prevent all the PvE. They are working on 1.125 to do exactly this. However, rather than making it simple as buy items for template off a merchant with bp's and making them untradeable, they instead made a complicated system that is going to require crafting and farming for special recipes etc.
Now after twists and turnes i see ppl started arguing which is easy by some standards that players have who already played for longer or have people they know who can help them...
I would love this to remain constructive, and helpful for changes to come, also give a feedback to the BS team what are issues as a new/returning player, not fight each other.
Regardless what I've wrote I also still around and trying to make things happen, even if it's really hard for me atm, however people might find this funny.
As I've said I played DAoC for a very long time until few years ago (since SI), and atm I fail to progress, however I try. Returning without knowing anyone is whole another topic. Whatever I tried to farm (boxes, doing SC, scales and ****) got me around 180plat total in one months. Yes thats bad considering one template cost today.
It might be easy to say go do Cursed and OW, so far I didnt get any chance on my playtime to get close to even one Cursed raid. One OW raid I was, and didnt get one credit, also ppl playing today dont even try to tell what to do, so I kinda just had to guess what to do for first time... Well It didnt went well.
I am now currently trying to farm some plats and try duo OW with a friend, because well other then that I can just sit around hope that one day a week I can join an OW/Cursed. Of course I could try to spamm advice for a guild and beg for help, but it's just aint my type. I only met one guy who offered help kindly, but unfortunately different time zone.
In a nutsell, I feel like its very bad for the game if theres no other way to progress then sit around wait for Raids, or get laughable plat that while still sounds nice, it will never get anything close to what I used to have since I played daoc (multiple temped toon to fool around, with reliable solo farm to sustain my own wealth).
About 1.125 I already stated many times, we may end up wrong, but I feel like being farmed by high rr temped in an epic geared toon aint going to bring much BPs home, but of course I am happy to be mistaken. I also hope for the best.
Thanks for anyone keeping it civil not try to argue with what people experianced personly.
The thing I find here is I really feel they should just scrap these campaigns and put in different zones camps with epic bosses you can do with a group where it drops different pieces of loot so it's easier to make your template and get these items. If Broadsword really want people to get into RvR fast that is the way to do it rather than having people trying to find a group for OW that no one really does anymore and Dragon Curse where mostly everyone is looking for a bg leader to lead them.
Scrap the 2 campaigns and make it simpler and the simpler it is the more fun the game will be. Making these complicated campaigns has just made people sick of DAoC PvE and rather see all PvE scrapped in DAoC.
Then I am lucky if I do pickup quest 100+ times and get 1-3 piece of 40-70p item after hard farming for more then a week dying about same time as quest done. Something smells there but maybe it is just my view.
We started doing OW with a friend of mine just two of us + 2 bots. We got stuck on Chapter 6 last time (Hel with lots of adds and fast repop), so we tried to continue from there. After dying several times, I went to spamm every region and advice for 30min if anyone can help us. After a while only one nice guy (ty!) PMed and tried to help us, but even with 3 people + 2 bot we failed miserably just again. We've tried to get people do it or at least get some help us, without any success.
The only reason trying anyway was to get something done at least, because all our other farming methods didn't get us much closer to get at least a toon temped, so still better then sit and stare the wall in housing waiting for some SC order.
I'll be honest, we do not know people currently playing that can help us. Got no guild also, and so far I managed to get into one OW raid which didnt grant a credit and got left behind last month. So my best plan is to sit around waiting for anyone in need of an SCer, or I can go farm something without progress. SCing gives me 1-2 customer tops per day, mostly 1 items needed.
In my current calculation we might just give up, while of course we won't, because we are stubborn, but feel like this welcome back in any game really takes a toll on anyone.
We've tried every farming method anyone mentioned and we can do, best results while may get something, they are just not enough to get temp in our play-window in less then 3 months. It's sad, I am kind of disappointed.
Probably the best we can do is get to know some people, get some guild, but then again it feels like begging for help, which I really don't like. We couldnt achieve anything in our time zone for more then a month now, guess its either time to start sell GTCs, or rely on other people kindness, or pity (however spamming region and advice got none of those so far).
Hope some get the struggle not for myself (I be around trying everything at my displosal), but most of anyone coming close to DAoC in current ERA (EU time zone at least). *
EDIT: * Without knowing any current players, not purchasing GTCs, or rely on others help.
I think the thing that Broadsword need to do here is to combine loot and do a small encounter with OW items that you can farm and also the new stuff too. The issue i see with OW is that most players have done it and don't need to do it anymore but what I feel they should do is if they made an encounter that you could farm these items combined with the most up to date loot, people will come and run with you. Sadly since the population declined rapidly in the last 4-5 years it's going to be difficult to find players at early hours of the day. I do suggest to join a guild because likely you'll get more help.
I feel the campaigns are to much of a hassel and would be better if players farmed their gear and get into RvR like old times.
I totally agree that Broadsword defiantly need to make this game returning/new player friendly. At the moment it's not even close and it's sad their not focusing on that but making changes that don't need to be done but we're see in next patch.
I play on Midgard, EU prime time unfortunately, else I would already try joining @Solicfear1 in his Guild, to try achieve something elsewhere.
I not yet given up hope on Midgard, will see If I manage to get into a Guild to achieve something where I have failed so far. Yet I am kind of torn if I have to rely on other people to achieve something. Most in Mid EU time at least wouldn't help someone who they don't know, or not own guild member.
@Solicfear1
Let's hope they can come up with something that helps new or returning players to achieve getting an RvR ready toon without the pain it currently is as right now.
Sounds like a solid plan.
@Gavner Yeah our attempt sadly didnt end great last night .
Any chance for a comment, on all thise different and good ideas in this thread Broadsword ?
It might just be me being odd, i just think it would help retain your current player base, and perhaps get some people to return, if the players would have some sort of idea where Broadsword stand with things and what the future might hold ?
I know you cant give any concrete plan and make a decisions right here and now on things, but are you listening and finding any of this useful ?
For us to give you feedback, it would be nice to have some feedback on our ideas and what you think / might see as problems in what we are saying, so we could refine our ideas and try to talk about solutions ?
We all love DAoC and got a history with it, if we the players and Broadsword agree on things or not, or player to player agree on things or not, we might still be able to help each other in a common goal of saving DAoC ?
Edit:
Deleted a part that i was told could be misunderstood, even tho it was ment nicely lol...
Always listening and finding this thread and feedback very helpful. We do have a few changes planned, I just don't have details as of yet.
Broadsword Online Games
I am really glad if you can see some constructive ideas and feedback here. Hope you can find some good solution. Looking forward hearing from it as soon you have anything that can be shared.
Seems a bit much to farm bp's and to level crafting on every single one of your toons that may need or want an item.
However, one way to look at is how I plan to help my friends who are new players out. One of them made a ranger. I plan on giving her all of my actual template stuff that I can replace with BP gear since I will be at the maximum amount. Then I just make and use the bp gear.
No reason to let every player with all these bp's sitting around template out 20 alts. If you want to template out a toon then take it out and play on it. As I said up above, I'm all about making it easier to template new players and toons without doing PvE, but it shouldn't be as easy as loading in your main and using all the bp's to template alts. If you want to template a toon it should require some time commitment. The crafting is stupid, but on the flip side you only need to level it to the 200-300's. The alchemy requirement is tradeable so only one toon would need to do that.
Two points that need to be considered and potentially expanded on -
#1 If they gut Curse too much (make it too easy) that removes any 'difficult' PvE from the game and will turn away any potential PvE players from joining come F2P. I suspect that once there's a boost in population, Curse raids will be much more common (and if not, it make sense to change that THEN as opposed to NOW) So, I understand your frustrations, but I'm not sure changes should be made BEFORE the F2P stuff.
#2 BP Curse gear is offered as an alternative, there's never been any claims it'll be easier to get. By all accounts, it looks like it'll be MUCH easier to just do Curse than it would to do it via BPs.
#1 I don't think any of us want to gut PvE, we never stated that. At least I am one of odd players who enjoy DAoC mechanics PvE too. I already stated my issues atm, and yes the lack of Cursed raid accessability is one of them. However I cant speak from personal experiance (because I never managed to do it), but leaders don't really like Cursed, nor players for its fun factor, but rather don't like because its issues, its just the neccesary evil - from what i've red -. Endgame content should exist, I just suggested to give option to progress PvE endgame also without the neccesity of doing this Raid because (atm) it's kind of rare. People who have access to it occasionaly make huge fortunes since it got items with main interest from players, since it's neccesary to be competitive on RvR (not PvE exclusively). However getting these items with plat do exist too, but due its accessability, and no other way to get those items make any other effort lackluster.
#2 BP Curse will surely help, and of course as you stated it should be harder then just go to a Raid. I think thats reasonable, because at least players can make progress regardless of Raid availability. Since we know no details there can't comment on if its reasonably priced or not.
My point is, like we had currencies many times which worked to balance Raid and Small man content, PvE currencys that can be made progress on should also help alot, at least to farm plat, and get mandatory items. Currently existing currencys either has no value because it cant really be farmed efficently compared to Raids, or just the items not desired anymore.
No one asks for instant gratification, we ask for progress that can be made PvE or PvP (likely both) instead of staring callendars achieving nothing.
Also while its a possibility some new player also end up enjoying PvE like many of us do, doubt majority of people will be attracted to that. There are many games that offer Raid content PvE, and focused on that far more extent.
Will see what Broadsword up to, and hope we can make decent feedback on that.
All of my toons are templated i was thinking more along the lines of someone who only has a main but maybe thought about making alts.
Killing off the PvE population removed a lot of buffer from the game. Without PvErs, you end up with severe price inflation, massive skill gaps and lack of crafting. There's obviously a large segment of players out there looking for nostalgic PvE in MMOs (See WoW, WoW Classic and other things ) and there isn't a reason they couldn't be courted along side the PvPer.
Probably a fair compromise would be to increase the Aurulite drops off of NPCs in the Cata zones, add set items to the merchant NPCs and leave the bracer and gloves the way they are now? That way you could farm Aurulite to purchase set items AND keep enough incentive for people to do the Curse quests.
DAoC's greatest weakness has always been its greatest potential asset. - It's lack of advertising.
With a bit of modernization and polish, you could easily pull people who never played the game before. There's 1000s of hours of content in DAoC that many people never got to experience. That can be turned into a massive asset for the future of the game. There's some awesome quests and zones that have laid un-touched (almost for decades) that could be re-tooled into engaging PvE experiences with little effort from the development team.
All they need to do is bring back what was fun in DAoC by farming the dragon, draco, Summers Hall and DF. We don't need these different currencies like Blood Seals, Aurulite, BPs. It's just confusing and generally stacks up your inventory which can be annoying. Just do like old times where we kill draco and let the loot drop and none of this credit nonsense. The reason we've had so many problems is because this is far to much like Master levels raids where credit gets bugged and people ld etc which made people quit daoc. I honestly loved Master levels but I have to agree I can see from these Curse raids why people quit if they had no grantcredit system in place for BG leaders.
Broadsword have ruled out that they are going to give a grantcredit system and it's really made Curse raids into a nightmare. If you wants people to enjoy raids you need to find an alternative if something goes wrong and I'm afraid BG leaders have no choice but to keep repeating the encounter 3-4 times until that person get's credit. Why on earth should people wait around for that? why can we just make it simple and just allow these players that did miss credit to get it granted to them?
I would rather see these campaigns scrapped and just bring oldschool events back with updated loot. As i said in my previous posts. Broadsword have made the PvE to complicated for players and their themselves. If you look back in DAoC history you don't need to make it complicated like ToA to have some decent PvE. Just stick an epic mob in an area and get players to kill it. People will love it we could go back to group setups like we with the Dragon in Dartmoor. We only needed a group and it was great fun killing it but that's what DAoC missing and yes you can say that Dragon curse has group encounters but again people wont complete it because it takes to long. Farming items takes less time and can be farmed anytime where if you don't complete the dragon curse group encounters you have to start all over again.
Make it simple all i'm asking, like old times!
I know im most likely in a minority group with the following, but i have never been a fan of quests, i miss the days of group up and kill stuff, i miss the day of release when you could enter pretty much any dungeon with any class and get a group within 15 mins and have fun, getting to know people and build friendships while resting as well as killing.
I know DAoC dosnt have the population to be like that anymore, i just dont like quests lol, i enjoy and find it relaxing just grinding or grouping and farming nameds. So if that could return in some way to the game id be really happy.
All this running around talking to NPCs and worrying about credit, while people rush ahead, dosnt build much community or friendships i think.
For me personal, i just find group / BG quests frustrating, thats just me tho and i know not many people seem to share my opinion on that.
Totally agree in fact these new campaigns are turning people away. These campaigns have made a mess of PvE and has built less friendships and more selfishness. If we could go back to just killing named bosses this game would be far better and that;s what this game was built for. Trying to turn this into WoW will never work and people don't want WoW PvE. They want to farm for gear and go out to RvR not run this complicated BG campaign.
I will be honest I loved battlegroup stuff before but after OW and Curse it has made me realise why we shouldn't have battlegroup PvE in this game.
having found 40PP all together on my characters is not enough for one piece.
The times when you just had to search the marked for malevolent gear that for no money had the quickness or heat resistance you needed that time was perfect - in the sense of feeling "good" enough to head out for an adventure in Molvik. Now i'm getting smashed while wearing BP-outfit.
I am prob leaving after this months sub.
If anything changes for the better (for newcommers and returners) I might return
@Gavner join nevermore to get ow grps going, collect plants in ow and craft pots and get discord! pm me there and we gonna find a date to run curse and ow (probably on same evening) im only gonna do curse raids if im getting asked for it tbh, cause of tokens there no other reason for me to run them if not 1-2 ppl ask me for it and if we start it numbers will come, so pm me plz on discord @Gavner i play eu prime time also
and i think about to run it on friday evening eu prime time, let me know if that works
same for you @jusiabera
Thanks for offer, I just joined The Scarlet Knights, they are lovely people, hope we can do OW one day, then going to farm those.
I think Cursed Raids already rarer then 2-3/week on EU prime, not much use callendar, or discord also, just spamm region in 1-2 hours before start, so its really easy to miss on that
I have also heard ppl farm aurulite in some Cursed place, guess it's not the entrance, because went down to kill hard hitting mobs, but they rarely drop, so it's not consistent. Wonder buying BP gives me access to some Cursed place farm also.
@jusiabera
If you on Mid, me and friend play there, PM me here and we might get something done together, also can help you. Meanwhile join Gig, I hope we can help you through it. BS definately going to at least provide some sort of solution (good or bad) in future, but we can try make it happpen until.
thanks a lot - i have already joined forest of Nevermore, since i'm playing Hib
The guild is so friendly, excited about this. Playing on 'Rolago' atm, hope to see you in the game
After 2 months of being back i finaly managed to do the following with OW:
2 x chap 1 - 9 on Mid
1 x chap 1 - 9 on Hib
No luck on Alb yet and no luck at all with the EV quest.
Personally i still dont like OW, out of the 3 chap 1-9 runs, 1 of them went smooth, the other 2 was a mess of repeated kills, people not talking and getting credit.
So still no OW completed fully.
Cursed update:
Managed 1 run on mid chap 1 - 8, 3 hours of repeated kills, waiting for LD's, AFK's and stuff, this i am never going to do again, id rather quit at the end of my sub then repeat that mess ever again.
2 months in, still no RvR ready char.
Personally i still prefer some sort of tokens you have to farm or as @Solicfear1 have suggested, some farmable mobs that drop the items, instead of this credit hell hole.