Anyone else noticing alot less casual players since EV changes?

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Comments

  • Minibard wrote: »
    with things turning back to normal with Covid and Spring/Summer approaching, many people will not be logging in as much.

    Look at tonight. Mids had over 100 people and took both Hibs relics.
    Have you not been noticing on what players are saying they dislike the changes that BS has put in. The whole solo zone is nothing but a dueling arena and the EV changes are just terrible. My whole guild quit that's 8 people with 2 accounts each. There is no more dynamic play and I don't care what peeps say its dead. BS revert what you did and maybe players will come back

  • What about the EV changes are bad? You need to vocalize what's wrong with it (in your eyes) rather than just saying it's bad. Also, the solo zone being duels shouldn't affect you as an 8man. If anything, it helps you if you were killing solos before since they're now all in 1 spot. Unless you now die to a bunch of ungrouped people
  • bringing the safeport back would help.....
  • Badgor wrote: »
    Minibard wrote: »
    with things turning back to normal with Covid and Spring/Summer approaching, many people will not be logging in as much.

    Look at tonight. Mids had over 100 people and took both Hibs relics.
    Have you not been noticing on what players are saying they dislike the changes that BS has put in. The whole solo zone is nothing but a dueling arena and the EV changes are just terrible. My whole guild quit that's 8 people with 2 accounts each. There is no more dynamic play and I don't care what peeps say its dead. BS revert what you did and maybe players will come back

    Are you able to say why?

    You keep saying you hate EV changes, and you provided a grand total of.... zero argument justifying your position. How do you expect BS to listen to you? Because you threaten to leave?

    The EV changes have been positive for a portion of the population, is a neutral change to some others and there is a percentage that seem to hate it, but can't say why.

    Solo port, I can understand as it turned the "solo areas" into bow fests. You can see soloers starting to zerg the solo towns because they don't like that bow town concept. I can see BS making adjustments to the solo port quite soon tbh. But then again, soloers are a naturally toxic community that tend to self-destruct when given nice things.

    But EV port? Only thing it changed is that you can't have a zerg port on you when you are trying to get arond the island or having a fight. That's great imo. Zergs still go in EV, but when they run in it's much easier to avoid then when they port in the tower right next to you.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    Badgor wrote: »
    Minibard wrote: »
    with things turning back to normal with Covid and Spring/Summer approaching, many people will not be logging in as much.

    Look at tonight. Mids had over 100 people and took both Hibs relics.
    Have you not been noticing on what players are saying they dislike the changes that BS has put in. The whole solo zone is nothing but a dueling arena and the EV changes are just terrible. My whole guild quit that's 8 people with 2 accounts each. There is no more dynamic play and I don't care what peeps say its dead. BS revert what you did and maybe players will come back

    Are you able to say why?

    You keep saying you hate EV changes, and you provided a grand total of.... zero argument justifying your position. How do you expect BS to listen to you? Because you threaten to leave?

    The EV changes have been positive for a portion of the population, is a neutral change to some others and there is a percentage that seem to hate it, but can't say why.

    Solo port, I can understand as it turned the "solo areas" into bow fests. You can see soloers starting to zerg the solo towns because they don't like that bow town concept. I can see BS making adjustments to the solo port quite soon tbh. But then again, soloers are a naturally toxic community that tend to self-destruct when given nice things.

    But EV port? Only thing it changed is that you can't have a zerg port on you when you are trying to get arond the island or having a fight. That's great imo. Zergs still go in EV, but when they run in it's much easier to avoid then when they port in the tower right next to you.
    The random port for ev is a joke you port in and get camped . The level 10 towers well you do need a zerg to take those or you get run down by elite 8 mans. Every thing about this is designed for the 8 mans. it hasnt stopped the zergs from doing what they do on the island. Once again people are leaving the game they need to fix it . Bring back the safe ports stop the random porting . They tower system should be removed period !!

  • edited April 8 PM
    I personally like the changes. We port to the island all the time. I think it was camped 1 time or just bad timing.

    You don't need a zerg to take ev towers. If you had a champ mini or skald, it would drop pretty quick.

    You want safe port. Random ports are not much different. You have a higher chance of getting zerged down at SP then random port. Or is that what you like to do, farm Safeports?
    Post edited by Minibard on
  • Minibard wrote: »
    I personally like the changes. We port to the island all the time. I think it was camped 1 time or just bad timing.

    You don't need a zerg to take ev towers. If you had a champ mini or skald, it would drop pretty quick.

    You want safe port. Random ports are not much different. You have a higher chance of getting zerged down at SP then random port. Or is that what you like to do, farm Safeports?

    once again if people liked the changes they wouldnt be quitting would they. Plus with the old towers my grp could get thru the door but by the time we are fighting the lord elite 8 mans were on us so I dont know what world you live in but with the new towers you cant get thru the door before they kill you. the game now equals you either are an elite 8 man (yes mini you are considered an elite player 8 man) or you duel /bow town or zerg and even the zergs suck now a days. I wish the game well and the players because if they keep catering to certain player its over .

  • Badgor wrote: »
    Minibard wrote: »
    I personally like the changes. We port to the island all the time. I think it was camped 1 time or just bad timing.

    You don't need a zerg to take ev towers. If you had a champ mini or skald, it would drop pretty quick.

    You want safe port. Random ports are not much different. You have a higher chance of getting zerged down at SP then random port. Or is that what you like to do, farm Safeports?

    once again if people liked the changes they wouldnt be quitting would they. Plus with the old towers my grp could get thru the door but by the time we are fighting the lord elite 8 mans were on us so I dont know what world you live in but with the new towers you cant get thru the door before they kill you. the game now equals you either are an elite 8 man (yes mini you are considered an elite player 8 man) or you duel /bow town or zerg and even the zergs suck now a days. I wish the game well and the players because if they keep catering to certain player its over .

    What's the purpose of taking the tower as a smallman? You won't get RPs for it, it doesn't offer a port so it's strategically limited. Usually it's you take it to camp when you want to fight a zerg, but I doubt that you are looking to fight zergs as a smallman?

    Camped ports, tbh I've never seen it so far since the changes. We were ported way more often into packs of aggro mobs than enemy players. Not doubting that you experience it, it's just strange that you would put it as an important negative to the EV ports while others never experienced it so far. Might be a timezone thing.

    The smallman game is 100% more about roaming near solo spots, mazes, EV gates, etc. With the BP gathering tasks, the Surs/DDB/Fens coasts are also great spots.

    I think you might just need to adjust your routine a bit because of the change (stop trying to take EV towers) and roam in other areas?
  • So wait, you said it hasn't changed what zergs do. I'm guessing you're a zerger. Then what issue is it if it hasn't changed what you do? Lol
  • So wait, you said it hasn't changed what zergs do. I'm guessing you're a zerger. Then what issue is it if it hasn't changed what you do? Lol

    talking to certain people on this forum is like talking to a brick wall ... I do small man before US prime time and then I run with a zerg during US prime time and yes taking a tower on ev so your realm could port there was kinda important not so much now. My play style is not important its the moves that BS put in and it is hurting the game. You all like them ok I get that but its not what a lot of people like .

  • @Badgor so what's the fun in taking ev towers? You say that taking ev towers is too difficult for a smallman to do (I agree), but why do you insist on taking them?

    Why would a zerg do anything on EV? There are no realm objectives there. Zergs are now focused on taking the other realms' towers, keeps and relics. Seems like it's a good thing? It's more complicated for zergs to go dodge each other on EV, isn't that a good thing.

    Reading what you write, I feel like the EV port has changed your daoc routine and that you are looking for new objectives to do as a smallman.
  • i guess its the circles we run in. the people I am with like changes, the people you with do not. But i really cant believe people are quiting because you cant port to an EV tower or SP
  • Small man is always hit or miss, more miss with a lower population. I had significantly better success running a small man in battlegrounds than I ever did in NF and that was nearly a decade ago with a larger population. It's not much different today. However, I suspect the battlegrounds (primarily Molvik) are sparsely populated in comparison to what they used to be.

    I agree that small mans could use an area that promotes that play style over the others. Hence, my suggestion that boxes for the Supplies quest be moved outside of the ruined areas and in proximity to the maze and/or along the coast/river. Between the Doppel loop, Supplies quest, and Branch quest there's plenty of roaming objectives for small mans and soloers that may not want to participate in the bow town experience. I think it would be cool for Broadsword to bring back maze towers, but only in a ruined state. Whether or not they could be captured would depend on if there's an objective tied to owning them. I'd even go so far as to add a small man (2-5 players) teleport obelisk to the maze so small mans have a greater chance to find one another.

    Safe port primarily benefited zergs that didn't have port to Hadrian's, Emain, or Odin's. I'm okay with safe port coming back for that purpose; however, I don't want to lose the random teleport into EV and the buff that comes along with it. The EV towers right now serve little purpose other than to act as indicators for enemy groups / zergs passing by them. I made a suggestion in another comment to tie the safe port timer back to ownership of EV towers and to link KM port to EV towers. Regardless of what further changes are made to EV, ports to the EV towers should remain closed.

    I think in general, the game could use more dynamic objectives to keep all play styles entertained. It's too bad the Molvik objectives didn't translate well to NF. However, it was fun to have something different in RvR. I think Broadsword is working in the right direction regarding updates. The Caledonia event turned out to be a lot of fun. Changes to EV and the ruined areas have been good, on average, for the respective play styles, but could be expanded to include small mans. I don't think zergs need help locating each other to establish fast action as this tends to be a leadership issue (cutting ports, dodging other zergs, etc).
  • null
    Taking ev towers as a small man isn't about fun, it's about survival. Before primetime we run 4 or 5 people, waiting on the rest of the guild to log on. As five we can't take on a coordinated 8 man. Having the tower to fall back on allows you to hit, maybe kill one or two, then jump in the tower to heal and regroup. You will eventually get killed but it gives you a fighting chance.
  • edited April 9 PM
    Badnagen wrote: »
    null
    Taking ev towers as a small man isn't about fun, it's about survival. Before primetime we run 4 or 5 people, waiting on the rest of the guild to log on. As five we can't take on a coordinated 8 man. Having the tower to fall back on allows you to hit, maybe kill one or two, then jump in the tower to heal and regroup. You will eventually get killed but it gives you a fighting chance.

    That's actually a logical argument. You are the first to bring one to the conversation.

    I agree that the new towers don't really make sense when you look at the overall EV plan. They took out the ports to limit zerg passage in EV, but made the towers a lot harder to take. You can't port into them, so zergs don't really have an advantage taking these, unless it's to defend vs larger zergs.

    Having them ruined wasn't useful, but having them at the level they are now is a bit much. The tower design is great imo, but the door HP cuold be reduced to allow smallmans to take. That would be a good change.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • After spending about an hour reading this entire thread thoroughly nobody mentions anything like what I'm about to say:

    Return to the Old Frontier.

    That is all.
  • puter wrote: »
    Regarding the concerns for casual players (@Stoopiduser @Mahvash), what is it exactly that you want Broadsword to do? They can't make you better at the game. However, they can make the game simpler to play. Is this the approach you want the developers to take?

    Ban all 'scripting' maybe?
    In this style of game things like scripting ruin it because with the non-balance we have already have in respect to classes/realms adding scripting to that... may as well give those players an account-wide baseline stun spell... WHY NOT EH?! lol.

    meh nobody will ever be happy I guess.
  • edited April 10 PM
    puter wrote: »
    Regarding the concerns for casual players (@Stoopiduser @Mahvash), what is it exactly that you want Broadsword to do? They can't make you better at the game. However, they can make the game simpler to play. Is this the approach you want the developers to take?

    Ban all 'scripting' maybe?
    In this style of game things like scripting ruin it because with the non-balance we have already have in respect to classes/realms adding scripting to that... may as well give those players an account-wide baseline stun spell... WHY NOT EH?! lol.

    meh nobody will ever be happy I guess.

    Scripting narrows the gap more than widens it. Better players don't require scripting to compete. It primarily helps with reaction time which better players generally have over casuals. Those who struggle to press a combination of keys in a short time frame benefit significantly more from scripting. You can think of it as binding combos on a controller in a fighting game. It's certainly easier to press one button than entering multiple in a sequence, but that doesn't mean you know when to use it. Scripting suppresses reaction time dependence so knowing which ability to use at what time becomes more important than being able to execute the ability at all.
    Post edited by puter on
  • Scripting is one of the coffinnails in that game.
    It has to be banned... not even worth a discussion, simple fact.

    But its just one of them...
    Not existing balance, TOA-Crab, ML, CL, speed of thehunt, potions, overwhelming CC.....you name it...

    Its basicaly very simple....
    A fight has to last at least say..... 20 seconds...
    The gap between perfect equiped in maxx RR and a new 50 in KingsGear has to be max 20% of what it is now...
    Stun, bum, dead can never happen......
    Joke-Classes like Vamp, Reaver, Nekro, Mauler, VW, etc.. need to be removed or put in line.

    And again, thats a fact... no need to be discussed.
    Obviously nothing of that will happen....
    Therefore we need Classic.

    Mahv
  • You can still get burned in a classic setting within 20 seconds. No amount of game roll back will make bad players good.
  • "Scripting is one of the coffinnails in that game.
    It has to be banned... not even worth a discussion, simple fact."

    I issue with run through and strafe, part the game been playing on and off solo since launch. back stun/side is part of the game.
    When you build in scripts on positionals, should be a ban imho.
  • edited April 11 PM
    While this thread has certainly derailed many times (starting with the OP), I definitely think the new changes to EV have gotten rid of some of the "casual" roaming element of it, and to me that's a negative, as I used to spend a lot of time on EV. The towers in particular should go back to being squishy imo and port-able.
    Post edited by Enkertons on
  • edited April 12 PM
    The porting and event was fun in Caledonia, but has not transposed well onto the main game.

    EV is pretty dead, and the only thing running are set groups.

    Not sure why Broadsword made these changes but I would revert this back pretty quick as most of the casual players are leaving.
    Post edited by Superlaws on
  • those werent mids . they were hibs . taking the relics. ..so hero and his mindless 65+ can take them back. welcome to the xrealming generation .
  • edited April 13 PM
    Minibard wrote: »
    with things turning back to normal with Covid and Spring/Summer approaching, many people will not be logging in as much.

    Look at tonight. Mids had over 100 people and took both Hibs relics.

    Ok a few points,

    People jump realms when they are not having fun and I dont blame them.

    Hero EU Prime pulls people from Mid and Alb as it is impossible to have fun defending against Hibs without almost equal numbers.

    Leegyn offered a chance to defend against hero as he has numbers and now more people are spliting between Hib and Mid on weekends as it is fun.

    The Hib US prime BG seems to have disappeared and now alot of them jump to Mid even when Leegyn isnt on as they still have around equal numbers but are not facing a Hib zerg.

    Rescu does not camp a keep unless he is outnumbered (currently atleast 2:1 against Mids) or already face planted against the other bg's 3 times openfield and do you blame him?

    Again it all comes back to if you find it enjoyable.

    And on topic.

    OP was 2 weeks before relaxing Covid rules in the UK atleast.

    Yesturday the UK opened the Pubs and we were down to 3 scouts for 50% of the night and 1 Mid who was bored in Annamarie BG joined 2 hours later.

    Yes there will be a slump in numbers for a few days but the downward trend for rps suggests to me people are not finding the casuals to feed/eat and the only action out there is 6-8 mans getting killed by IRC or zergs.

    Well on the plus side one of the better groups doesnt run as much now. What was it they said? If you cant kill us get good or bring more.. Oh dear Arlington brought more and now they they dont play as much cuz its too zergy.

    I for 1 had alot of fun zerging down both IRC and Gav's groups with 2.5 FG of albs 3 times each.. O wait it wasnt fun for them? I wonder if its about FUN and not just Skill after all.

    Post edited by Stoopiduser on
  • Should a blind person be expected to have fun playing DAoC @Stoopiduser?
  • Are there symbols next to Mob con for colour blind people? perhaps we should remove those.
  • You're missing the point. Players are expected to have basic competency in a game for it to be considered enjoyable. The "git gud" statement applies to every single game that has skill disparity. The older a game is, the more difficult it becomes to compete against veteran players.

    DAoC is approaching 20 years old. There isn't much room for being ignorant to game mechanics. Outside of zerging, DAoC hasn't been casual friendly for a long time (decade or so). Refusal to adapt is what leads players to quit. Ultimately, that's completely valid. However, you shouldn't place blame on players who did adapt as the game evolved. It's a completely reasonable and expected result.
  • Did this dude just say arlington was a good group? Lol
  • Broadsword did a great event, got people back playing to try the game out and people had fun.

    Then they introduce porting on EV and remove safe zone porting, who’s idea was this?? the new players simply port in and get trashed over and over by IRC /gav and then quit? What was the point?

    Whoever are they listening to for game decisions?? Did they not realise this would happen? Or at this point do they simply not care about new players?

    They should have not implemented the ports and kept the game as it was. It was far more casual friendly and people would have stayed longer.

    As it is they created an 8 v 8 zone and fed the new players to IRC/Gav, sure they got rps for a short while, but now EV is now pretty dead.

    This needs fixing urgently.
  • edited April 13 PM
    You do realize you don't have to port in right? You can port to km or run from coastal keep or boat and jump at E or W docks. Seems just the MMG campers are the ones with the issue. 8 man's have been dealing with island issues since EV was introduced. It use to be an area where 8 man's would go fight
    Post edited by Minibard on
  • Outside of trappers and tower campers, I rarely saw anyone roam EV without a FG+ before the changes. Both can still be done...
  • i like that groups can not port instantly to a flaming tower :)
  • puter wrote: »
    You're missing the point. Players are expected to have basic competency in a game for it to be considered enjoyable. The "git gud" statement applies to every single game that has skill disparity. The older a game is, the more difficult it becomes to compete against veteran players.

    DAoC is approaching 20 years old. There isn't much room for being ignorant to game mechanics. Outside of zerging, DAoC hasn't been casual friendly for a long time (decade or so). Refusal to adapt is what leads players to quit. Ultimately, that's completely valid. However, you shouldn't place blame on players who did adapt as the game evolved. It's a completely reasonable and expected result.

    LOL, is this guy for real :)

    What ever...
    Just saw the " State of the Game " for the first time and realized that Ywain is just a GangBang-Party of BS and some brown-nosed suckups...
    There is absolute no, and will never be, turn into the correct ( casual ) direction.
    They dogged all the important questions and just catered to BS.
    Basicaly just payed for propaganda.

    But its fine, i dont want to disturb the little Family-Banging, sorry for that.
    I am out.
    Peace.

    Mahv
  • See ya when you're back
  • I'm starting to think that what Mahv means by casual play is actually just RNG. Not sure how /stick battles are invigorating, but ok.
  • Minibard wrote: »
    You do realize you don't have to port in right? You can port to km or run from coastal keep or boat and jump at E or W docks. Seems just the MMG campers are the ones with the issue. 8 man's have been dealing with island issues since EV was introduced. It use to be an area where 8 man's would go fight

    This. I honestly haven't seen a viable explanation as to how random porting into EV is detrimental. The only insinuations have been from players that appear to benefit (or have benefited) from camping mile gates. It's a "random" port. You can port to a coastal keep and run into EV. You can take a boat outside of the relic town and boat to EV. If your realm owns KM you can port there to EV. This notion that droves of players are leaving because zergs now have to run from the coastal keeps to EV and groups appear in randomized locations is absolutely ludicrous.
  • Minibard wrote: »
    You do realize you don't have to port in right? You can port to km or run from coastal keep or boat and jump at E or W docks. Seems just the MMG campers are the ones with the issue. 8 man's have been dealing with island issues since EV was introduced. It use to be an area where 8 man's would go fight

    This. I honestly haven't seen a viable explanation as to how random porting into EV is detrimental. The only insinuations have been from players that appear to benefit (or have benefited) from camping mile gates. It's a "random" port. You can port to a coastal keep and run into EV. You can take a boat outside of the relic town and boat to EV. If your realm owns KM you can port there to EV. This notion that droves of players are leaving because zergs now have to run from the coastal keeps to EV and groups appear in randomized locations is absolutely ludicrous.

    They only complaining I've read in /region is a certain few groups have learned the port locations in EV and were running/camping them but that's about it.
    Dreamscape 12Lx Dark Lotus
  • My subscription expires beginning of next month and am not renewing. Playing free elsewhere atm.
  • KatKat
    edited April 26 PM
    I love the new ports. I am not constantly having to boat from a relic gate or risk dying to a fg of stealthers camping safe ports. Hero's zerg no long kills the game for me. I have even been going to EV once in a while. I think a minor tweak of solo area ports would be a good idea..but either way...LOVE being able to port to all realms.

    Keeping all accts open while ports are in game.
    Post edited by Kat on
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