Anyone else noticing alot less casual players since EV changes?

Title says it all really.

Is it just my perception or is there is no place for the people hiding from zergs and just trying to leech rps?

EV Towers were a good place for trappers and the people who kill them.

What about the casuals? What is there left for them to do?

Zerg? not enough fun or maybe to boring.
8v8? nope not good enough to survive or get a group.
1v1? nope all the l33t soloers are just killing anything that moves or they dont know as they have been starved for action for so long.

To quote Vocalism and few others in the #solo channel:

[7:59 PM] CosmoDome: then start taking names
[7:59 PM] stonie: Just hit people
[8:00 PM] stonie: It’s RVR
[8:00 PM] CosmoDome: seriously you guys still have this belief people are going to all turn on you for not bowing
[8:00 PM] stonie: Don’t need to stand around for approval unless you know them
[8:00 PM] stonie: A 1v1 is a 1v1
[8:00 PM] CosmoDome: this [deleted] is great yall just need to get these old nethuni perceptions out of the way

I hope this is not a sign of player numbers being run into the ground for more 8v8 action at the expense of casuals.
«1

Comments

  • Zerging has always been for casual play. The remaining play styles have always been more competitive because there's less opportunity to be carried. DAoC is a competitive game at its core. Numbers dilutes the competitiveness. I think you're just noticing the effect of overall lower population which seems to have occured post Caledonia.
  • I'm not sure why the EV towers were ruined for the EV event. The EV/solo zone porting should stay perma but the towers could get back to a normal non ruined tower (but stillnwith disabled porting).

    You couldn't port tonEV towers in the past and they changed that to speed up action. However all it does is to have zergs be way too mobile.

    Not ruining the ev towers could provide a hiding spot for MG campers, and therefore some action by hunting the campers.

    Definitely saw some trap spam last night so they are still in action.


    As to your original question, casuals can still smallman and go roam around solo towns, get some kills, die, rinse and repeat.
  • KatKat
    edited March 26 PM
    Title says it all really.

    Is it just my perception or is there is no place for the people hiding from zergs and just trying to leech rps?

    EV Towers were a good place for trappers and the people who kill them.

    What about the casuals? What is there left for them to do?

    Zerg? not enough fun or maybe to boring.
    8v8? nope not good enough to survive or get a group.
    1v1? nope all the l33t soloers are just killing anything that moves or they dont know as they have been starved for action for so long.

    To quote Vocalism and few others in the #solo channel:

    [7:59 PM] CosmoDome: then start taking names
    [7:59 PM] stonie: Just hit people
    [8:00 PM] stonie: It’s RVR
    [8:00 PM] CosmoDome: seriously you guys still have this belief people are going to all turn on you for not bowing
    [8:00 PM] stonie: Don’t need to stand around for approval unless you know them
    [8:00 PM] stonie: A 1v1 is a 1v1
    [8:00 PM] CosmoDome: this [deleted] is great yall just need to get these old nethuni perceptions out of the way

    I hope this is not a sign of player numbers being run into the ground for more 8v8 action at the expense of casuals.

    Not really sure what your complaint is about the solo area. Some people chose to bow, some don't. But it seems most people there are trying to not to add on 1v1's, though mistakes happen and there are some asshats that still add. But overall, that seems to be the most agreed upon standard. What are you looking for? A spectator sport where you can watch the gladiators fight without any risk?

    I realize this might sound snarky, and that is not the intent. I am truly curious
    Post edited by Kat on
  • I am not complaining about solo area but the 8v8 island BS created.

    We have discussed this in the 1v1 channel just forcing fights cuz you need to get the jump on someone is not welcoming and I am not saying it should be but action will dry up and you will be left with he ghost town it was before if you have people like Dodgy just doing whatever he likes because he is on a zerker poeple cant kill or Vocalism who cant be caught or killed unless you jump him.

    The point of the post was saying there are fewer casuals and I was asking if it was just me seeing this.

    What I am saying is what about the casual players?... won't someone please think about the casuals! :tongue:
  • Zerg or start learning how to be competitive. Small man really isn't a viable play style as the population is too low, imo.
  • Nobody is forcing you to use the porter....
  • Casuals can still

    - run a smallman and roam close to the solo areas, with the risks it represents
    - Run a 8-12-16 slot and run around EV. Good groups will welcome a good 8v10-16 fight vs a less competitive group.
    - Join zergs and enjoy keep fights
    - Solo and expect to be killed a lot

    Why does being casual means not wanting to actually get better at the game? I never understood why these were mutually exclusive in a lot of people's heads.
  • Here we go again "Get good" is not the answer

    Rofl 8-12-16 man.

    How are you supposed to get better if you never have a chance too while getting rolled by veterans such as yourselves? Do you know how long a fight lasts against rr10+ groups who know exactly what they are doing? 20-30 seconds? what do you think they learn? yep thats right.. well that game sucks i'll do something else.

    Start a BG or Zerg is about as much use as get good. Who is gonna start that BG? New people? They can barely make it to a keep let alone defend it against 50 hibs.

    If you wanna solo then you will get killed as you should being a new player.

    Living the dream boys and girls.

    You guys really are the downfall of this game.

    If Broadsword keep listening to your ideas they will finally push all new/returning players away and you can all get what you deserve a ghost town. Even I am considering giving up and I have played this game for almost 20 years give or take 3 months here and there.
  • @Stoopiduser How is EV porting related to anything you are saying?
  • edited March 26 PM
    Title says it all really.

    Is it just my perception or is there is no place for the people hiding from zergs and just trying to leech rps?

    EV Towers were a good place for trappers and the people who kill them.

    What about the casuals? What is there left for them to do?

    Zerg? not enough fun or maybe to boring.
    8v8? nope not good enough to survive or get a group.
    1v1? nope all the l33t soloers are just killing anything that moves or they dont know as they have been starved for action for so long.

    You arent getting casuals is my point.

    As I said to Gav on his stream last night, EV is dead cuz people get rolled and there is no where for them to hide or have the advantage walls to hide behind to even make 1 rp

    When the set 8's get rolled 4 times by IRC what happens? they log.

    What in the world do you think casuals are going to do? roam around an empty NF.. woohoo! 2 hours of nothing or like the 6 man I was in last night died twice to Hero, twice to Anna, and then after returning to EV rolled by IRC.

    Give the casuals somewhere near the action to hang out and make the 8 mans come to them if they want the easy rps and risk of a Zerg.

    So I am clear this is not about what happens to me I can play scout and watch; I spent 5 hours at solo zone other day just watching :P it gets boring so I am over it.
    Post edited by Stoopiduser on
  • I'm confused, are better players supposed to just not play any more?
  • edited March 26 PM
    Title says it all really.

    Is it just my perception or is there is no place for the people hiding from zergs and just trying to leech rps?

    EV Towers were a good place for trappers and the people who kill them.

    What about the casuals? What is there left for them to do?

    Zerg? not enough fun or maybe to boring.
    8v8? nope not good enough to survive or get a group.
    1v1? nope all the l33t soloers are just killing anything that moves or they dont know as they have been starved for action for so long.

    You arent getting casuals is my point.

    As I said to Gav on his stream last night, EV is dead cuz people get rolled and there is no where for them to hide or have the advantage walls to hide behind to even make 1 rp

    When the set 8's get rolled 4 times by IRC what happens? they log.

    What in the world do you think casuals are going to do? roam around an empty NF.. woohoo! 2 hours of nothing or like the 6 man I was in last night died twice to Hero, twice to Anna, and then after returning to EV rolled by IRC.

    Give the casuals somewhere near the action to hang out and make the 8 mans come to them if they want the easy rps and risk of a Zerg.

    So I am clear this is not about what happens to me I can play scout and watch; I spent 5 hours at solo zone other day just watching :P it gets boring so I am over it.

    With everything you said, I still don't understand how EV porting prevents you to do this. The only thing is that the towers could be normal again, just no porting to said towers, and it would allow casuals to hide inside I guess.

    EV was booming last few days in US prime, seems like a time zone related issue. Mondays and Tuesdays are terrible, but that's the state of the game.

    How is putting old EV back gonna change the fact that you run a 6 man and you got rolled by Hero, Anna and Xuu? That's just normal.

    Could there be an event dedicated to smallmans around mazes? Hell yeah.

    Casuals can still join zergs, can still run smallies, can still run 8. Will they lose more than they win? Probably, you'll need the numbers advantage to get wins. But you don't want that, cause it's boring. So what is it that you want.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • I have zerg surfed for years m8, I am not bored.

    I played and do play all playstyles and timezones.

    This is not about me. I cannot be clearer than that.

    Back when the EU server were up I was one of the last to leave Excalibur so I have seen this downward spiral, please excuse me not wanting to watch the same thing happen again.

    I simply pointed out that I look at the login screen and think "meh whats the point"

    I'm confused, are better players supposed to just not play any more?

    No point in me explaining it m8, you cant seem to keep up.
  • Shoke wrote: »
    @Stoopiduser How is EV porting related to anything you are saying?

    I wouldnt say its about the porting its about us Casual players who do not script or run with a set 8 every night so when we do port in we get slaughtered by the peeps who do script and say they are leet by camping the load in areas on the island. Broadsword once said they would not cater to a set play style.. But I think they have. So when I hear the argument get better at the game it drives me nuts. I think I am a good player but I wont script so I will never be a 2 button leet player. The choices that Broadsword has made I do not think are good for the game in general just my opinion.

  • So now we are linking EV porting, casuals and scripting? wtf
  • Stoopid, you cannot be less clear lol. You and this badgor guy are the only ones on the same page
  • Shoke wrote: »
    So now we are linking EV porting, casuals and scripting? wtf

    I was just giving my opinion between the casual player and The super leet. It does seem the the Leet players feel entitled in DAOC that the rest of us players just dont have a say and us casuals must just Zerg. I do like fighting against Heroius and Leegyn but I also like running with my guild which is usally just 5 person squad and yes we are casual.

  • edited March 26 PM
    Stoopid, you cannot be less clear lol. You and this badgor guy are the only ones on the same page

    I am sorry m8.

    No port to ev and nothing to give casual player any hope of getting realm point or deathblows has caused there to be less casual players and it is bad for the game.

    I thought I was saying the same thing through the whole post but I guess not.

    It is the same as my other post about people not having fun at sieges and hib stun being the problem.

    No fun = No new/return players.
    Post edited by Stoopiduser on
  • Solo action has so much potential (that we will likely never see). I give Broadsword credit for *trying* to design objectives for solo action, but it is not too much of an oversimplification to say that solo action has evolved from bridge camping (no design) to bow town (current design). *Sigh*

    Imagine what DAoC would be like if there had never been relics/keeps/towers. Imagine if the pinnacle of RvR design was to teleport to Ellan Vannin. *This* is how I feel about the state of solo action. We have yet to discover awesome design, but noone feels that way. Everyone is assuming that *players* will create optimal action, and that we have already peaked.

    Don't assume it. Design it.
  • Ok, so let's start with the assumption that the zergs are for casuals. How do we make this playstyle more fun so the casuals stick around. Much of the zerg action happens around keeps. I've noticed lately the zergs avoid the keeps when they can. How do you get them to hit keeps? Try making the relics worth taking. Obviously the damage bonuses are not enough to make people chase the relics, they barely move. There needs to be a different incentive to make people take keeps. Ideas?
  • "Get good kid". How do you get good? Practice. The better eight mans roll over the new eight mans. The new groups get frustrated then log. Then the better eights complain they have no one to fight. Maybe some groups should split in half, pug some noobs and teach them. More groups more action. But people are creatures of habit, and we like to be comfortable. Running with people you are familiar with is comfortable. This game gives us as much as we put into it. (I'm guilty here too, not bashing anyone)
  • I consider myself a casual player. I play 2-3 hours a night. But I am very competitive and want to the the best I can be. I use scripts. If you don't want too, that's your choice. That has nothing to do with being "Leet" Most people have programmable Mice and keyboards That's why scripting is legal. These items were not the norm when daoc was created.
    I don't see the issue with the way EV is set up. You don't have to port there. you can run from outer keeps if you like. Zergs show up on the island every night.

  • Can always roam Doppel loops as a small man. Usually only casuals do that anyways so I don't think there's a shortage of options here. The game could definitely use more objectives, but that hasn't changed in nearly 20 years. Provide feedback with some thought into it and you may see it come to light. The woh is me argument isn't going to get you or anyone else anywhere.
  • I am not complaining about solo area but the 8v8 island BS created.

    We have discussed this in the 1v1 channel just forcing fights cuz you need to get the jump on someone is not welcoming and I am not saying it should be but action will dry up and you will be left with he ghost town it was before if you have people like Dodgy just doing whatever he likes because he is on a zerker poeple cant kill or Vocalism who cant be caught or killed unless you jump him.

    The point of the post was saying there are fewer casuals and I was asking if it was just me seeing this.

    What I am saying is what about the casual players?... won't someone please think about the casuals! :tongue:

    First of all I hate /bowing, but it's a thing...

    I hate /bowing with a stealther.... they should just hit me....

    If I get hit by surprise, stealther or non-stealther, then yeah, I'm gonna run away and re-engage when I want to, or not at all

    There are no rules, just respect, or no respect, depending on the player
  • The better groups (Xuu), tried running drafts to get more people involved in 8v8 in a non toxic setting. You know what happened, people couldn't take constructive criticism and stopped showing up. You can blame them for then grouping up with each other again at that point. Some people don't want to get better and don't have anyone to blame but themselves. Nothing wrong with that but you can't say the better groups haven't tried to help. @badnagen
  • The better groups (Xuu), tried running drafts to get more people involved in 8v8 in a non toxic setting. You know what happened, people couldn't take constructive criticism and stopped showing up. You can blame them for then grouping up with each other again at that point. Some people don't want to get better and don't have anyone to blame but themselves. Nothing wrong with that but you can't say the better groups haven't tried to help. @badnagen

    Wish I had known about it, I would have tried it. I take criticism well and don't take my ball and go home when things get tough.
  • game is a joke. toons you have NEVER seen. suddenly owning everything. 8 mans who can take out bgs.. two mans in keeps who have endless heals on inner door .. killing . good job catering to the irc elites and hibs. waste of time and money now
  • RNG battles are long gone. Time to learn the game.
  • Bowatg wrote: »
    game is a joke. toons you have NEVER seen. suddenly owning everything. 8 mans who can take out bgs.. two mans in keeps who have endless heals on inner door .. killing . good job catering to the irc elites and hibs. waste of time and money now

    8 mans take out BGs because all they want to do is AE everything and not respect CC.
    Endless heals are gone since they added more power usage on spread heals and spec group heals
  • edited March 28 PM
    It sounds to me that casual have already left the game. I warned about this but yeah I agree that it's turning out exactly the same what happened on the EU servers. I mean, it is what it is and seeing from this post, the elite 8mans don't really care what happens to casual and why would they when they all have high realm ranks killing off players that can't find an 8man or can't even rvr because they are low realm rank.

    The funny thing is the post that someone mentioned above just says it all 'You should just get better'. This to me sounds like an elitist attitude and don't seem to see how zergs are important for the health of the game. Some players are just not built for 8man groups and would rather enjoy the zerg side of things in order to have their couple of hours fun. Finding an 8man can be difficult especially if they haven't got the classes. It's alright you saying 'just get better' but if they don't have the right classes it's going to be lambs up for the slaughter if u ask me.
    Post edited by Solicfear1 on
  • When's the last time you logged into Ywain, Solic? There's plenty of zerg action but that's not what the OP is asking for. These folks are suggesting for an easier version of the game, preferably where RNG > skill. I personally don't agree with that mindset but DAoC simply doesn't attract competitive players. It's too old and buggy as ****. However, players on Ywain need to put some effort into the game if they want to expand outside the zerg play style. There's just no way around that reality. Btw, high rank doesn't mean much either when the skill gap is so wide...it matters more against players of similar skill.
  • I really hate the EV event. The whole zone is a bust at the present time and dueling at folly is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. In most cases, you don’t have to duel to know who will win. High RR characters will win 95% of fights, su if you’re not at least RR8, don’t waste your time.
  • Seamuss wrote: »
    I really hate the EV event. The whole zone is a bust at the present time and dueling at folly is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. In most cases, you don’t have to duel to know who will win. High RR characters will win 95% of fights, su if you’re not at least RR8, don’t waste your time.

    Have you seen Nate's videos? Far from a great player and has beaten high RR players with a RR1 LT...Know your class / game mechanics and you'll stand a far better chance than anything RR can give you.

    The EV "event" is basically old Agramon. Must be before your time if you truly hate it. Zergs should never have been on the island to begin with. RvR is about beating the other realm right? Go take keeps/towers/relics if that's how you truly feel about the game.
  • i have little to no fun with that event before you always found action in EV gate if your realm doesnt have the Tower you go from your safe and try to pull tower camper out etc.

    Now you port and roam from gate to gate without seeing a soul than you cross a gate to get killed by pyro group mines. Wow thats fun

    I would put old EV back but keep the random teleport available so when your safe and tower are stealth zerg you have and option to roam EV or get in their back.

    Its just that since the event its hard to find action for solo or a duo trio.

    Dont think i would miss that much getting jump by stealth group lol
  • StraM wrote: »
    i have little to no fun with that event before you always found action in EV gate if your realm doesnt have the Tower you go from your safe and try to pull tower camper out etc.

    Now you port and roam from gate to gate without seeing a soul than you cross a gate to get killed by pyro group mines. Wow thats fun

    I would put old EV back but keep the random teleport available so when your safe and tower are stealth zerg you have and option to roam EV or get in their back.

    Its just that since the event its hard to find action for solo or a duo trio.

    Dont think i would miss that much getting jump by stealth group lol

    Old EV catered to tower campers way more than it should have been allowed to. Sure, it did draw action but it was more of a gang bang than anything enjoyable, imo. Players just need to stop camping and start roaming specific areas more frequently. Fear of the /release is detrimental to a game that revolves around fighting other players.

    Soloers have the ruined areas. Just hit whoever isn't fighting. No need to /bow.

    Smallies can roam mazes / coast / Doppel loops.

    Full groups have the island again.

    Zergs go after large scale objectives: keeps, towers, relics, and/or other zergs.

    Small manning in NF hasn't really been good since the late 2000s. I had much better luck and fun playing in Molvik as a small man than NF. Granted, overall population is just lower so it's going to be harder to find like-minded players to play with and against in a niche play style.

    No matter what Broadsword does, someone is going to be unhappy. The reality is this game is old and lost its novelty years ago. There's simply not enough interest nor enough resources to bring the game up to modern MMO standards. All BS can do is play to the game's strengths: unique class system and 3-way fights. Everything else is icing on the cake.
  • edited April 2 PM
    Badgor wrote: »
    Shoke wrote: »
    So now we are linking EV porting, casuals and scripting? wtf

    I was just giving my opinion between the casual player and The super leet. It does seem the the Leet players feel entitled in DAOC that the rest of us players just dont have a say and us casuals must just Zerg. I do like fighting against Heroius and Leegyn but I also like running with my guild which is usally just 5 person squad and yes we are casual.

    Not that it matters, but I never scripted or even used qbinds for years and years. Watched 10 minutes worth of tutorial videos from Obelisk on youtube and had a basic functional combat script running and qbinds up in about 30 minutes total. I would easily consider myself a casual player, it's very easy to do as well. It also just makes positional styles and follow ups easier but not automatic or guaranteed.

    Regarding the content of this post. It appears as though you're requesting that casuals earn some form of guaranteed realm points. I don't agree. The argument of 'git gud' isn't meant as an insult, it's literally something that should develop through playing.

    Edit: Regarding the "solo" areas and "bow town". It's very clearly not designated to solo play style. There's a 90 second timer that prevents grouped players from camping the 'ruined' area. These solo areas get cleaned out by groups routinely.
    Post edited by Amp_Phetamine on
  • population has dropped by 21% the last three days. easter and people playing for free on the other thing. see if they come back..
  • Bowatg wrote: »
    population has dropped by 21% the last three days. easter and people playing for free on the other thing. see if they come back..

    Based on what?
  • Let's see those numbers to prove your "facts" @bowatg
  • Bowatg wrote: »
    population has dropped by 21% the last three days. easter and people playing for free on the other thing. see if they come back..

    dont have numbers, and also dont know how to get them...
    But i agree.
    From my feeling and the regular /who while i am online numbers have dropped a lot after that unholy event.
    Seems this event pissed off a lot of players...
    But, hey, the fanboys are happy...
    So, well done :)

    Mahv
  • Ah yes, the "feelings" argument about population
  • edited April 5 PM
    Literally every one who still plays DAoC is a fan...otherwise, no one would play it in 2021 lol.
    Post edited by puter on
  • Ah yes, the "feelings" argument about population

    Ok, now with numbers. Yesterday while i was online.
    /who front.
    17 people. ( Midgard )
    5 of this 17 wer SB.
    As we all know a big junk is always BuffBots.. So most of the not SB were Shamy and Healer....
    If i recall correct there were furtehr more 1 Warlock and 1 Runemaster...

    Does this sound like a MMO with a healthy and well designed game-mechanic ?

    Mahv
  • What time was this at? Without giving the time of each /who, it's not really a valid argument. It could be at 4am est and the population is terrible (has been for forever compared to Euro/US)
  • Seamuss wrote: »
    I really hate the EV event. The whole zone is a bust at the present time and dueling at folly is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. In most cases, you don’t have to duel to know who will win. High RR characters will win 95% of fights, su if you’re not at least RR8, don’t waste your time.

    i would say that knowing which class is against which class lets you guess the majority of outcomes most of the time, just like knowing which individual player(s) are doing the 1 vs 1 will also in the majority of cases indicate who will win. seeing the difference in gear will be an other major indication of who will win. and yes rr will have it's influence too, but saying that just knowing the outcome of a 1 vs 1 fight 95 % of the time by just the difference in RR is ... not accurate, and that's a heavy understatement.

    the player, the rr, the gear, the class. both 4 are major indicators of the outcome of a 1 vs 1.

    someone with 10.000 hours of pvp experience (yes there are people in the game that have done 10.000+ hours of pvp) on a fresh level 50 in champion gear will probably beat someone with no pvp experience that plays an ebayed rr13 in a godlike template.
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • For me if you don't like the changes just leave.

    To be fair game was better when players made the action. Good example was ECB duels , labby and keeping ports open for action. The meta in new daoc is cutting ports and killing action, just so some elite 8 man can suck the lifeforce from the few. Zerg blows, hero will never take a keep with any real defence, it's all about irs and RPS.
  • Well I am just checking back in to say, my guild mostly the more casual side of the game, has pretty much quit..

    We have gone from 8-12 people every night down to 4-6 and those who still even log in are talking about finding another game.

    I tried to warn you..

    "Get good" came the reply.

    BS have taken all the good will from caledonia event and flushed it down the toilet listening to the 40 regular 8 man players and Teddie thinking thats what the game should be and basically ruining the game for whats left of the 90% player base Casual players.
  • Well I am just checking back in to say, my guild mostly the more casual side of the game, has pretty much quit..

    We have gone from 8-12 people every night down to 4-6 and those who still even log in are talking about finding another game.

    I tried to warn you..

    "Get good" came the reply.

    BS have taken all the good will from caledonia event and flushed it down the toilet listening to the 40 regular 8 man players and Teddie thinking thats what the game should be and basically ruining the game for whats left of the 90% player base Casual players.

    That summs is up pretty good.
    Second all of that.

    Mahv
  • edited April 8 PM
    For me if you don't like the changes just leave.

    To be fair game was better when players made the action. Good example was ECB duels , labby and keeping ports open for action. The meta in new daoc is cutting ports and killing action, just so some elite 8 man can suck the lifeforce from the few. Zerg blows, hero will never take a keep with any real defence, it's all about irs and RPS.

    I think this is the biggest issue with modern DAoC: the player base mindset. There is more effort put forth, on the player side, in avoiding rather than seeking fights. This is why I think there's such an outcry against the recent changes which aim to promote frequent fights.

    Regarding the concerns for casual players (@Stoopiduser @Mahvash), what is it exactly that you want Broadsword to do? They can't make you better at the game. However, they can make the game simpler to play. Is this the approach you want the developers to take? If so, how will this promote more players into the game? Even the servers that shall not be named are continuing to lose players and they have done a lot to appease to the casual crowd. Could it be that this game is just too old to maintain interest in for a casual player instead of the game itself being somehow bad?
    Post edited by puter on
  • with things turning back to normal with Covid and Spring/Summer approaching, many people will not be logging in as much.

    Look at tonight. Mids had over 100 people and took both Hibs relics.
Sign In or Register to comment.