The Teleport Obelisk Remains

Thank you all for your feedback on the teleport obelisks in each realms relic town!

It's been great fun to watch the new dynamics created with groups enjoying some great combat on Ellan Vannin as well as the constant action at the ruined areas! We have also really enjoyed the epic keep battles this dynamic seemed to encourage!

As such, the following remains in effect for the foreseeable future:
  • Teleport to and from Knoc Meayll has been re-enabled.
  • Teleport to the Towers of Korazh, Deifrang, and Graoch remain disabled but the towers are no longer ruined.
  • Teleport to the safe areas on Ellan Vannin remains disabled.
  • Players of any group-size can visit their realm's relic towns to use the Ellan Vannin Obelisk to teleport to a random location in the central area of Ellan Vannin.
    • Groups of 6+ members who use this obelisk will receive a 100% bounty point bonus buff that will auto-refresh as long as they stay in the central area of the island.
      • Please note that this buff will *not* stack with mithril-purchased bounty point bonuses but will stack with all other BP bonuses.
      • Please note that this buff will affect Endless Conquest accounts as well as subscribed accounts.
    • This buff will dissipate if the group leaves the area but will return if they return to the area and still have the Ellan Vannin Port buff.
    • Groups of 6+ members with the Ellan Vannin Port buff will continue to get updates on the number of other 6+-person groups in the central area of Ellan Vannin.
  • The obelisk in each realms' relic town will also still teleport ungrouped characters to Folley Lake, The Trellebourg, or Moydrium Castle and the 1 minute anti-group camping timer remains in place at the ruined areas.
  • Ellan Vannin towers will auto upgrade to level 10 on capture now.
We look forward to your continued feedback!



Click here to visit the DAoC Herald!
Post edited by Carol_Broadsword on
DAoC Community Lead
Broadsword Online Games
Tagged:

Comments

  • Sence the anti grp buff is staying is there anyway we can move the location of the boxes that way guildies can still help others get them especially new or returning players
  • Way to go Broadsword way to favor the minority player ... Once again you never think about the base of your game and we are the majority of Paying players ... Remember this ?
    There are no “solo-only” (or 8-man-only or battlegroup-only) zones in Dark Age of Camelot. The Frontier is a sandbox that is meant to have options for all playstyles. While the ruined areas may be conducive to “solo” play over other playstyles due to how the teleportation mechanic works, they are still part of the Frontier and are not meant to wholesale prevent other playstyles from joining in the fun! Grabbag 1/31/2020
    Time to look for a new MMO

  • I don't understand how these changes negatively impact anything. All this has done is given players who want fair fights a better chance at finding fair fights. It does nothing to stop players from adding, ganking, zerging, etc.
  • can we move the location of the boxes
  • Everyone I've talked to seems to hate the teleport obelisk. Seems pro-8 man and anti-zerg, but a lot of these changes have that feeling. I wonder which group of players could be pushing these changes...I wonder.
  • It is totally anti zerg, nobody thinks otherwise.

    8 mans finally got something enjoyable while zergs keep 99% of everything they like.

    Looks like a win win
  • Shoke wrote: »
    It is totally anti zerg, nobody thinks otherwise.

    8 mans finally got something enjoyable while zergs keep 99% of everything they like.

    Looks like a win win

    Keep telling your self that ..

  • I really want to know how these changes are so awful for the game as a whole and how it hurts the zerg play style. All I've read so far are complaints resulting in, "I don't like it." Please elaborate. @Badgor @Sovereign
  • You'll only get, "from what other people tell me" from Solic as he plays the bird so it's secondhand and he comes here trying to give his input on events like he plays them
  • Way to go. You preserved the absolute worst part of the EV event, while destroying most of what makes the game fun. Every time I think you can’t make things worse, you do!
  • Please explain. @Seamuss
  • edited March 31 PM
    I'm really starting to think that people that dislike the EV event just lack the capacity to formulate an argument that can be debated.

    I don't know how you expect BS to listen to you if all you post is "waaaaaa waaaaaaa I want EV back waaaaa you are destroying the game waaaaaa"

    Why don't you spend 5 minutes, come up with a list of arguments as to why you think the EV portin is detrimental to the game and then you can expect BS to take action.

    Are you guys 5 years old?

    I'll go first!

    Context:
    - I only 8 man (US prime, 9 to 11 pm EST)
    - We look for 8v8/8vX fights, but will also partiticipate in keep defense/attack.
    - If EV doesn't have a ton of action, we will look to pick off back ends of zergs.

    How it was before EV changes:
    - 8 mans didn't exist. There were three 8man oriented groups (Creaper, Xuu and us) that run on a consistent basis, but the action was mostly centered around zergs and keeps, so 8v8 was completely dead.
    - A big reason for this was that roaming as an 8 man was incredibly boring. Since there weren't any dedicated area to do it, you could run for 45 minutes without fighting anyone.
    - If you had a fight in EV, it had a very high possibility of getting jammed by zergs/other groups because of the 7 ports available to the island (3x safeport, 3x tower ports, KM port).
    - Groups strictly left zergs after the zerg leaders logged, which meant good and fun action was only happening at 11:30+ pm EST.

    How it is now:
    - There are 2-3 more 8 mans looking to play more regularly during prime time.
    - 8 mans, when the zergs aren't hitting keeps and are just roaming, can port to EV/run to EV and have good small scale fights.
    - Since it is longer for the zergs to get to EV, they tend to avoid it alltogether and focus on keeps and attacking another realm, which is the purpose of the game. This way 8 mans know that there is a place in the game where getting zerged down by more numbers is less common, so they naturally gravitate to that area, increasing the fight density.
    - Overall, it has made the game more enjoyable for me.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • Shoke wrote: »
    I'm really starting to think that people that dislike the EV event just lack the capacity to formulate an argument that can be debated.

    I don't know how you expect BS to listen to you if all you post is "waaaaaa waaaaaaa I want EV back waaaaa you are destroying the game waaaaaa"

    Why don't you spend 5 minutes, come up with a list of arguments as to why you think the EV portin is detrimental to the game and then you can expect BS to take action.

    Are you guys 5 years old?

    I'll go first!

    Context:
    - I only 8 man (US prime, 9 to 11 pm EST)
    - We look for 8v8/8vX fights, but will also partiticipate in keep defense/attack.
    - If EV doesn't have a ton of action, we will look to pick off back ends of zergs.

    How it was before EV changes:
    - 8 mans didn't exist. There were three 8man oriented groups (Creaper, Xuu and us) that run on a consistent basis, but the action was mostly centered around zergs and keeps, so 8v8 was completely dead.
    - A big reason for this was that roaming as an 8 man was incredibly boring. Since there weren't any dedicated area to do it, you could run for 45 minutes without fighting anyone.
    - If you had a fight in EV, it had a very high possibility of getting jammed by zergs/other groups because of the 7 ports available to the island (3x safeport, 3x tower ports, KM port).
    - Groups strictly left zergs after the zerg leaders logged, which meant good and fun action was only happening at 11:30+ pm EST.

    How it is now:
    - There are 2-3 more 8 mans looking to play more regularly during prime time.
    - 8 mans, when the zergs aren't hitting keeps and are just roaming, can port to EV/run to EV and have good small scale fights.
    - Since it is longer for the zergs to get to EV, they tend to avoid it alltogether and focus on keeps and attacking another realm, which is the purpose of the game. This way 8 mans know that there is a place in the game where getting zerged down by more numbers is less common, so they naturally gravitate to that area, increasing the fight density.
    - Overall, it has made the game more enjoyable for me.

    You can't say 8-mans didn't exist and then list 3 8-man groups that did and continue to exist. You say there are a few more 8-mans post EV event but I would argue those 8-mans might be out more because of the harm done to the Zergs via the EV changes. 8-mans are fast and travel wherever they please and often times can easily outrun a Zerg. The reason 8-mans can't find action isn't because the Zerg is killing it, it's because they don't allow newbies into their community and if a new8-man does crop it, it's mercilessly and relentlessly farmed until it either becomes a new top tier 8-man or quits. Unfortunately, most choose the latter option.

    What have the changes done to negatively affect Zergs, well they've significantly reduced the ability from Zergs to move from one realm to the other not to mention cut back on fast paced action that Zergs, like any other play style, enjoyed. It also ties the hand of realms suffering devastating loss of land. For example, US prime comes around, Alb logs in to find Beno and Bold ports cut. With the loss of the safe port zone, the zerg now has to start from the bottom and work it's way up which makes its route extremely predictable and prone to ambush from other, much larger Zergs. One could argue they could take boats but 4 to 6 boats have a tendency to be spotted which again leads to ambush. The safe port was not just a gateway into EV but it was also a gateway to the north which a zerg could use to re-enter its realm. Players are leaving the Zergs not because they find an overwhelming new love for 8-man play, it's because they don't like the options the Zergs have left.
  • edited March 31 PM
    Sovereign wrote: »
    Shoke wrote: »
    I'm really starting to think that people that dislike the EV event just lack the capacity to formulate an argument that can be debated.

    I don't know how you expect BS to listen to you if all you post is "waaaaaa waaaaaaa I want EV back waaaaa you are destroying the game waaaaaa"

    Why don't you spend 5 minutes, come up with a list of arguments as to why you think the EV portin is detrimental to the game and then you can expect BS to take action.

    Are you guys 5 years old?

    I'll go first!

    Context:
    - I only 8 man (US prime, 9 to 11 pm EST)
    - We look for 8v8/8vX fights, but will also partiticipate in keep defense/attack.
    - If EV doesn't have a ton of action, we will look to pick off back ends of zergs.

    How it was before EV changes:
    - 8 mans didn't exist. There were three 8man oriented groups (Creaper, Xuu and us) that run on a consistent basis, but the action was mostly centered around zergs and keeps, so 8v8 was completely dead.
    - A big reason for this was that roaming as an 8 man was incredibly boring. Since there weren't any dedicated area to do it, you could run for 45 minutes without fighting anyone.
    - If you had a fight in EV, it had a very high possibility of getting jammed by zergs/other groups because of the 7 ports available to the island (3x safeport, 3x tower ports, KM port).
    - Groups strictly left zergs after the zerg leaders logged, which meant good and fun action was only happening at 11:30+ pm EST.

    How it is now:
    - There are 2-3 more 8 mans looking to play more regularly during prime time.
    - 8 mans, when the zergs aren't hitting keeps and are just roaming, can port to EV/run to EV and have good small scale fights.
    - Since it is longer for the zergs to get to EV, they tend to avoid it alltogether and focus on keeps and attacking another realm, which is the purpose of the game. This way 8 mans know that there is a place in the game where getting zerged down by more numbers is less common, so they naturally gravitate to that area, increasing the fight density.
    - Overall, it has made the game more enjoyable for me.

    You can't say 8-mans didn't exist and then list 3 8-man groups that did and continue to exist. You say there are a few more 8-mans post EV event but I would argue those 8-mans might be out more because of the harm done to the Zergs via the EV changes. 8-mans are fast and travel wherever they please and often times can easily outrun a Zerg. The reason 8-mans can't find action isn't because the Zerg is killing it, it's because they don't allow newbies into their community and if a new8-man does crop it, it's mercilessly and relentlessly farmed until it either becomes a new top tier 8-man or quits. Unfortunately, most choose the latter option.

    What have the changes done to negatively affect Zergs, well they've significantly reduced the ability from Zergs to move from one realm to the other not to mention cut back on fast paced action that Zergs, like any other play style, enjoyed. It also ties the hand of realms suffering devastating loss of land. For example, US prime comes around, Alb logs in to find Beno and Bold ports cut. With the loss of the safe port zone, the zerg now has to start from the bottom and work it's way up which makes its route extremely predictable and prone to ambush from other, much larger Zergs. One could argue they could take boats but 4 to 6 boats have a tendency to be spotted which again leads to ambush. The safe port was not just a gateway into EV but it was also a gateway to the north which a zerg could use to re-enter its realm. Players are leaving the Zergs not because they find an overwhelming new love for 8-man play, it's because they don't like the options the Zergs have left.

    I didn't know 24 players represented a nice and healthy playstyle community.

    The newbie argument is gettig a bit old. Like it's been said a million times, players were offered opportunities, we often need to pug most nights and do invite randoms when we need to. Sometimes it's a pleasant surprise, sometimes it's not. A new group will have issues at first for sure, but over time they improve and give good fights.

    The game revolves around RP/hr and fun. 8 manning wasn't fun before the change and to be able to have a good RP/hr, you had to stick zergs because zerg fights represented 99% of all action on the server. Zerg action isn't what they are interested in.

    Based on your comments, you seem to be playing Alb zerg which sees it's numbers fall 100% due to Rescu being the worst BG leader of all times. He created this toxic BG where sitting in a keep for hours is the favored playstyle and where exterior help is immediately dismissed.

    Finally, your comments mention that now that zerg travel paths are predictable, there is the likelyhood of more fights. If you have big numbers that don't allow you to travel using boats, it does seem like a good thing, no? And if you are vastly outnumbered by other zergs, then it means you probably have a smaller more mobile BG and therefore, boats can be used more effectively?
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • i like the fact that you can not port to the ev towers---it lets the small mans take a tower without being instantly jammed by a group or two....

    do think the safeport should be reopened though.....

    also could there be way to stop peeps from porting to solo area and grouping for 10 minutes or so :)
  • edited March 31 PM
    I think it is a big loss for the game to no longer be organic. To hand everyone, everything on a silver platter and turn it into arcade fortnite rather then an immersive experience and this is why so many people ask for a new server.

    Not only nuke EV, nuke new frontiers and make some terrain modifications to pennine mtns OF with regards to the more extreme areas. Flatten or widen other areas as needed to accommodate different kind of keeps in some areas(new and old). Add a port system but a very light one that serves only one single purpose which is to lessen the run from border keep while also being able to be cut. You can also take keeps out of this game in the middle zones, maybe we only need 3 there. One can become a 'ruined' landmark but you don't get any bonus and you can never teleport there. Have a realm timer of one week. This is pretty easy work I could probably do it over a few coffees.

    A lot of people here want arcade fortnite even though if I wanted a perfect fair fight there are better game like league of legends, overwatch, other instanced arenas, etc that are modern and probably inject good dopamines on wins at a faster rate and this kind of mindset here is very bad for the spirit of what this game always was which was a more organic and immersive experience and not a bad dopamine injector which barely even works anymore. It is nearly unrecognizable at this point, there are a lot of other things too that I have noticed like dying in rvr meaning absolutely nothing when you have a rez, restoration pot, and pendragon bracer this is so bad and is one among many problems with this game as it is today and people aren't going other places solely because they are poor I can promise you that, even if the vision is being lost there now too, but go ahead and keep saying that. We can do better.

    Post edited by Lurandal on
  • Lurandal wrote: »
    I think it is a big loss for the game to no longer be organic. To hand everyone, everything on a silver platter and turn it into arcade fortnite rather then an immersive experience and this is why so many people ask for a new server.

    Not only nuke EV, nuke new frontiers and make some terrain modifications to pennine mtns OF with regards to the more extreme areas. Flatten or widen other areas as needed to accommodate different kind of keeps in some areas(new and old). Add a port system but a very light one that serves only one single purpose which is to lessen the run from border keep while also being able to be cut. You can also take keeps out of this game in the middle zones, maybe we only need 3 there. One can become a 'ruined' landmark but you don't get any bonus and you can never teleport there. Have a realm timer of one week. This is pretty easy work I could probably do it over a few coffees.

    A lot of people here want arcade fortnite even though if I wanted a perfect fair fight there are better game like league of legends, overwatch, other instanced arenas, etc that are modern and probably inject good dopamines on wins at a faster rate and this kind of mindset here is very bad for the spirit of what this game always was which was a more organic and immersive experience and not a bad dopamine injector which barely even works anymore. It is nearly unrecognizable at this point, there are a lot of other things too that I have noticed like dying in rvr meaning absolutely nothing when you have a rez, restoration pot, and pendragon bracer this is so bad and is one among many problems with this game as it is today and people aren't going other places solely because they are poor I can promise you that but go ahead and keep saying that. We can do better.

    Well said.
    I have been inactive (waiting patiently) for 5 years or so, and I am looking forward to a new server, but I have very mixed feelings about a new server. I don't really want to go back to something that once was. I'd much rather see the game progress to something new and better. If progress is the goal, then the new server is a costly distraction (time-wise), but on the other hand it will (finally) make the game playable again (for me).

    A new frontier is the most exciting thing I can imagine, but the problem is that the creativity *has* to come mainly from Broadsword. If they are not passionate about the project it will surely fail. I think the best approach would be for them to lay out their plans and ask for feedback several times during development, but unfortunately they seem to prefer to surprise us with the final version before anyone even know it's coming.

    I can't comment on the recent EV changes (it's getting very difficult to keep track of the changes from outside the game), but in general I don't like teleportation to combat areas. I mostly care about the design of solo action, and I have been advocating a design that revolves around generating natural/random small scale traffic. Sadly, a teleport to a specific rendevouz (bow town) is the polar opposite of this.
  • @Lurandal Fights are definitely still organic. I have no idea which group(s) are roaming EV unless I want to setup a fight which my group seldom does (i.e. maybe once per night). The "solo" areas can be organic as well if you don't reserve yourself to /bow before engaging. Nothing is being handed to anyone on a silver platter here. All that Broadsword has done is incentivize a couple play styles to a few areas so like-minded players can congregate. The remainder of the game is still as it was. If you're noticing a negative impact on your play style, then it probably means your play style wasn't as popular as you thought it was. DAoC is still a far cry from the MOBA's you're referring to. No game to date has replicated the unique mechanics / design that is DAoC.

    @Sovereign Zergs taking a hit on mobility isn't a bad thing, imo. They should be predictable in their movements. Smaller forces should still be able to out maneuver larger forces, whether that's via boating or just moving from point to point. Hib and Mid BGs seem to be doing just fine during NA prime even when KM port was removed. The struggles Alb faces has very little to due with the state of the game. Don't forget, Alb dominated for a short time a few years back before Xyorman rage quit the server, and it wasn't under Rescu's leadership.

    @47el I agree with the EV tower ports remaining closed. They made sense when Bled/Beno/Crau were ruined keeps, but it was definitely lopsided toward the bigger realm(s) once they were reinstated as regular keeps. The "new" EV towers (actually old NF style towers) are really cool and I hope we see more of the original NF keep/tower/bridge design return. I'm completely open to the idea of reinstating safe-port via the portal pad ceremony so long as the obelisk remains and continues to offer a bonus (currently BPs) for groups who choose to roam the island.

    Considering KM port has been reopened, I would like to see a bit more dynamics involved with its port considering that EV towers serve little purpose now. My suggestion is to tie KM port to owning all three EV towers, similar to mainland keeps. That way there can be some strategic advantage for owning EV towers and KM on a BG scale. I would even go so far as to have the portal-pad ceremony be interchangeable with KM port. If your realm owns port to KM, then the portal-pad ceremony is halted. However, if your realm does not have port to KM, then the ceremony continues. This definitely will make BGs predictable in their movements, but it will also allow for KM to change hands more frequently.

    I think the underlying key point that some people keep forgetting is that this game revolves around fighting other players. It's much more enjoyable to have fights that are relatively even than fights that are completely lopsided, regardless of play style. You don't need instances to achieve this either. Broadsword has done a decent job at trying to create a more even playing field for all play styles except for small mans, which is really difficult to do. I personally think they're taking steps in the right direction and hope to see another Caledonia type event in the near future.
  • puter wrote: »
    [...]The "solo" areas can be organic as well if you don't reserve yourself to /bow before engaging. Nothing is being handed to anyone on a silver platter here. All that Broadsword has done is incentivize a couple play styles to a few areas so like-minded players can congregate. The remainder of the game is still as it was. If you're noticing a negative impact on your play style, then it probably means your play style wasn't as popular as you thought it was.[...]

    I disagree. The design of bow town is a stale environment that is much more likely to result in dueling rather than roaming. It is absolutely not a true reflection of what players truly want. The most striking evidence of this was the implementation of bow town itself. This was a dramatic change practically overnight. How would you explain such a *change* in player behaviour if players always play how they want to?

    I would describe myself as a roamer/quester, but if I played in this bow town era I would stay very close to bow town, and the thing is, if you are in bow town, there is no reason to roam/leave. You will just remove yourself from the action. I would stay close to bow town, keep moving, and respect ongoing fights, which would make me *look* very much like a duelist. And that is my point. Players adapt to design.

    It is perfectly possible to create an environment that is exactly the opposite of bow town, and I guarantee you players would suddenly "want" to play very differently.
  • KatKat
    edited April 1 PM
    Soloing was basically dead. Fewer and fewer pps out and about. Hero breaking all the ports 24/7 made it even more painful. The solo ports are awesome because I don't spend the majority of my time on boats anymore. Even though solo areas are kind of death traps for me (walls + light tanks, necros, etc = dead hunter), I have played more in the last week then I have in a long time.

    And, I dont really understand why pps get so mad about 20+ people trying out the solo area for fun fights. It literally does not affect the zergs, in any way whatsoever. The new solo ports has actually brought back some players. I personally wished more of the solo players roamed, but stealth zergs have killed the visi solo playstyle.
    Post edited by Kat on
  • Mhm, BS should move the Boxes and Plants to another area, no interest in the Solo "playstyle" but going there for Clippings an Boxes now has become an exercise in futility.
  • Why not give suggestions on a new area to move them to
  • Why not give suggestions on a new area to move them to

    Ideally, you need an area the size of a zone. There is no obvious place to use. EV is (rightly) focused on group/zerg. Everywhere else you have keeps/towers in the way. A lvl 50 battleground would work, but it would work too well.

    We need Broadsword to take interest in the discussion (and throw around some structures!)
  • Add an Obelisk and ruined Tower for the mazes that only solos and/or small mans can use.
  • edited April 2 PM
    I guess I just few a little nostalgic on what used to be. The best soloing was in old frontiers. But I guess it was a bit of a grind to chase the dragon, but man the reward was awesome. Look, I get it. I know the state of the game and population, that this is probably what most people want. But I won't take part on that it is just too boring for me being what it is.

    My best memories of the solo game were from a really long time ago. Running out of APK on my first lvl 50 which was an Armsman. Getting through the milegate alive was a challenge, but I loved it. Sometimes you became a piece in a giant battle trying to get through there. It was definitely the hardest part of the journey and the most common place to have to /release, but it was a rush when you got through and you made that left turn into Breifine looking back and getting distance from that milewall of hell and death. Then you ran into sniper hill at the border. Another death zone, the second most dangerous place and dying here meant starting over or getting a group instead, but a lot of times you could pass through without issue if you took the right route. Did you get funneled into the first valley, then take the left wall and for the love of god stay away from the center hill. Or did you take a risk and go into the further valley? Your chances are a little better there until you exit the valley and you end up in a highly trafficked area but you could press up the back hill which went up into a decent plateau and you could easily find small scale or solo fights up here as the larger groups took the more direct route on sniper hill itself or through the valley. I usually took an immediate left and hugged the left wall and took my chances because what was beyond could be a lot of fun. Going towards the Gorge could be great fun too, but there were some nice spots on this route too. Not far was Marfach Caverns, the rvr dungeon. It was nested atop a ridge well outside of the high traffic areas. Sometimes I would find fights with people coming there, or leaving. Sometimes I would pop in there and have a look around and many, many times find a good fight. Soloers, even high RR ones could be found around the entrance as the content deeper usually required a group. Or I could keep going south and pass the Fins camps where there were people. You could take some risks and head to the road looking for people coming and going along the roads, probably on a waiting list for a group or leaving as there was an xp bonus that made them better then cursed forest, yeah this area was xpers but they were close to level and were often in groups and often the ones coming out with some of their first realm ranks here. Or keep going and you enter into Mt. Collory. It was a long journey but we are still alive and there is a nice spot to find a fight down here. Particularly east of Scathaig there was a spot of Leprechaun that were yellow to 50 and easily farmable, kind of tucked out of the way and they were valued for their salvage and the better encounters against geared 50's could happen here. If there wasn't much on a particular journey for some reason I could hang out outside of Druim Cain and swoop on anything coming out heading towards all of the places, using the hills and trees to hide. Make sure to /wave to the low cons though and don't kill them for you can not just change your character's name in these times! This was just one journey you could take. You could go to the Gorge instead along a different path with landmarks of interest along the way. If AMG(or g1) was just too hot and it was primetime, I could have a complete change of scenery and go to Odin's. Going there the action could be even better as many others had the same idea...Or you could run into friendlies out and about and join in on a conquest. Or go out into you own lands and find an enemy making a similar incursion. None of it was symmetrical, and it was often chaotic at times requiring thought and those who took the right routes and not just run the beaten path could be well rewarded.

    When ToA came, the lands all died. Everyone was there taking part in that grind. AMG was no longer really dangerous and the journey could be easy, and you may not find a fight except with the border keep sentinels. That was the real problem with ToA, unless you were on Mordred. There were other issues that also compounded, like WoW being released. When NF came out, it stream lined a lot of places to go. Everything was symmetrical and the same in all realms pretty much. There was no agramon yet at the time. It was all about the coasts, and then came the coast guards which made it just as bad as trying to get through AMG. The bridges were all the same thing pretty much, with a higher chance of getting run down as they were all really trafficked and people could just teleport and be right there. There weren't really anymore hole in the wall places to run off to and find action, although there were some but everything could just port passed you most of the time. The last time I really enjoyed a stealth class or solo toon was about a week after NF was released. I immediately lost interest. I guess kudos to those who found this fun, but I didn't. I guess I just really enjoyed the journey just as much as mashing the buttons on the keyboard. Seeing different things and exploring to get there.

    I guess I am just a little nostalgic of that fun...a little sad now of what the solo game has become. I got no interest in that, sounds like it would get boring quick and everyone knows where you are. I get it, this is what certain people like and wanted.. It is not like there are a ton of other options for that playstyle in the meta of today and I understand. There have been other places to go for sure, but the only real difference is whether you run clockwise, or counter-clockwise although this has always been a NF pitfall of going to high traffic or no traffic areas. The same can be said for the other play styles. The NF triangles are also a thing of the past it seems (3 realms having nged, behnn, bolg, etc. which was damn awesome at times), with BG leaders now able to go for headshots on more central objectives. It's just sad and I do think that there could be a better way but clearly it is not as simple in this environment and I get it. Soloing for me back in the day was more about exploring and fighting my way somewhere, about taking my own road and journey but there doesn't seem to be much of one anymore, well for a long time actually in that particular playstyle that died for me a long time ago. The reward was a bit better in that it could be really fun even if I didn't get any kills on a run back then. Maybe I'm just an old bitter vet but I remember some good stuff!
    Post edited by Lurandal on
  • edited April 2 PM
    When the game was new, it wasn't unusual to have a sense of exploration and reward for simply just venturing in different areas. This aspect has been lost over time simply because the game is old. There hasn't been anything new to explore for over a decade. The game has since focused on RvR because that's literally the only content that remains dynamic. Therefore, it makes sense to promote frequent fights rather than forcing players to roam the same terrain for hours to only have a handful or less of encounters. Nostalgia isn't trustworthy in terms of making changes because it completely ignores context of the time. DAoC is almost a 20 year old game now and the last expansion was released over 13 years ago. I can understand some people wanting the game play to be simple like the classic days, but the sense of exploration/adventure will never return unless a new game is made. Welcome to aging.
    Post edited by puter on
  • Nostalgia is a very big factor, but it is too easy to dismiss everything as "old age". I can relate to many of the things @Lurandal mentions because I yearn for the same type of solo *adventure*. This is not (just) about things being new. It is about a sense of purpose and meaningfulness.

    There is another factor that is just as big as nostalgia, and that is innovation. More specifically, I mean things that *could have been*, but never were. For example, I would argue that in terms of solo objectives, we have yet to make the jump from PvE objectives to actual RvR objectives. All the design we have yet to try is an unknown world waiting to be explored (pun intended).
  • So with all of this porting to the Bow Towns does? It takes away the excitement of the game no boating or running from your keep to get to the first bow town so you can port (if you have opened the ports) . It is dead out in the frontiers until the Zerg action comes on.The lvl 10 towers on EV well by the time your small man even gets the door to half One of the big named 8 mans destroys you. Yes Broadsword you made some bad decisions. What worked in an event does not work in the frontier.
    I canceled both my account and so have some of my guildies . On to another game

  • Sounds like you yearn for a RP server more than playing the game itself. Some players have a hard time trying to separate the two. I have and always will play DAoC for what makes it unique: its PvP system (RvR), class design, and mechanics (i.e. hard interrupt system). PvE and adventure/exploration driven MMOs are all abundant on the market. I'd rather play any one of those (and have) than seek it in a game that wasn't designed to compete with them in the first place. You should really listen to the Countdown to Classic podcast with Mark Jacobs (Ep #123 & 124) to get a sense of what the developers designed DAoC to be. I think the biggest issue players have is they truly believe their view of the game is what DAoC should be, regardless of the design intent. While I believe players should provide feedback and be able to weigh in on some design choices as the game ages, it ultimately falls on the developers to make content as they see fit with their vision of the game. My fundamental issue with the current development team is that they refuse to provide their rationale for any updates, patches, changes, etc which suggests to me that they don't have a clear vision of the game. That's ultimately what was lost when Mythic disbanded and Broadsword took over. These recent changes are heavily influenced by servers that shall not be named because the current developers noticed they work. I'm completely fine with this direction because it promotes the unique aspects of the game. However, I also don't want a complete carbon copy of what's available for free. In short, I'd rather Broadsword have a clear vision of the game than rely on either alternative servers or nostalgic players for future directions.
  • edited April 2 PM
    You are correct about the novelty of first explorations, back when /map wasn't in existence and people had printed or drawn maps pinned to particleboard near them. But I have to disagree with your point though. On a basis of more recent experiments that have modified things to try to come to some kind of balance between rvr and instant gratification. I know full well that a strict classic ruleset is going to be a failed server. We've seen that experiment fail somewhat recently. There are issues with the old patches, from mechanics to balance for some areas of the game that took a lot longer to fix. Old keeps were much different and the dynamic of rvr battles have evolved very much over the years, the battles themselves though and not the map tactics which seems to have gone backwards imo. It feels a lot closer to guildwars WvW or ESO rvr now and I didn't find those systems particularly engaging. A progression server also is going to have issues because it could probably follow mostly unmodified, and when certain times are introduced there will be different exoduses. A lot of people who voted for NF on a certain progression experiment that happened recently, don't actually participate anymore themselves, they quit out not long after. I found that to be pretty interesting.

    What I would propose would be a very modified server that has a lot of older well known familiarities and features to it like the older frontier terrain, yet also keeps some modern things like certain balance adjustments that were necessary like some style revamps or specline buffs that were made in the last 15 years. You modify some of the terrain, you even put some newer keeps in areas by accommodating locations for them and you do this while making sure that it allows for tactical considerations and gameplay. There is nothing tactical about losing a major fight, but not actually losing it and being right back in the fray in short order. Defeat shouldn't mean no progress lost at all. If I had my way, I wouldn't even call it classic, and it wouldn't be progression either. I'd call it a roleplay server. Not a server where you were expected to actually roleplay, but one that was more focused on the immersion of the game with things that I have mentioned earlier that take a complete 180 degree turn away from instant gratification or the fortnite arcade style of gameplay. A realm timer that lets you change loyalties, but not on a whim. I'd let let people who made big gains on ywain have something in their /title for rvr and pve accomplishments to show for it as a simple cosmetic display but nothing more. A lot of people would go for that. If it fails you just let em copy to Ywain but it would probably take camelot unchained actually being finished to do something like that. Surprisingly enough, I checked in there and it looks like they've modified their shaders and lighting to kind of look like what you may expect from a proper successor and while it may be some time away and needing a lot more work, every day they seem to actually be working at it and progress is starting to get more interesting to me.
    Post edited by Lurandal on
  • edited April 2 PM
    hah you called me out on that roleplay thing as I was writing it :) My first server with my first lvl 50 armsman was on Guinevere, the first couple years of DAoC. Memories there that made me wish for a time machine. When NF came I went to Lancelot to play the different game.
    Post edited by Lurandal on
  • puter wrote: »
    Sounds like you yearn for a RP server more than playing the game itself. Some players have a hard time trying to separate the two. I have and always will play DAoC for what makes it unique: its PvP system (RvR), class design, and mechanics (i.e. hard interrupt system). PvE and adventure/exploration driven MMOs are all abundant on the market. I'd rather play any one of those (and have) than seek it in a game that wasn't designed to compete with them in the first place. You should really listen to the Countdown to Classic podcast with Mark Jacobs (Ep #123 & 124) to get a sense of what the developers designed DAoC to be. I think the biggest issue players have is they truly believe their view of the game is what DAoC should be, regardless of the design intent. While I believe players should provide feedback and be able to weigh in on some design choices as the game ages, it ultimately falls on the developers to make content as they see fit with their vision of the game. My fundamental issue with the current development team is that they refuse to provide their rationale for any updates, patches, changes, etc which suggests to me that they don't have a clear vision of the game. That's ultimately what was lost when Mythic disbanded and Broadsword took over. These recent changes are heavily influenced by servers that shall not be named because the current developers noticed they work. I'm completely fine with this direction because it promotes the unique aspects of the game. However, I also don't want a complete carbon copy of what's available for free. In short, I'd rather Broadsword have a clear vision of the game than rely on either alternative servers or nostalgic players for future directions.

    DAoC has an awesome system of relics/keeps/towers. This encourages players to initiate random action. It encourages players to expose themselves, and it encourages players to take pride in all these activities. This creates a living breathing world, and it is good for absolutely *everyone* whether you care about relics/keeps/towers or not.

    I wish the *same* things for solo action. It is not a deviation from the original design. On the contrary, it only makes sense to expand this core design to include the smallest units of RvR. (They would have to be different kinds of objectives, but to the same effect).
Sign In or Register to comment.