Scripting

Is scripting in-game "The way the game was intended" to be played? To many players are using scripts to have an advantage over other players. I heard them bragging about how much easier it is to fight verse the old style of pointing and clicking.
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Comments

  • People act like its a bad thing. its free to anyone that wants to use it. Does it give a slight edge? Yes. instead of using multiple buttons you can assign 1 button for multiple uses.
    Ex: I have my mezz and demezz on the same button. or have my side and back style on the same button. or style and flow up on same button.
    So the only advantage is really convenience. its definitely not an automatic win because you have it.
  • its allowed.
    The "ceiling" is calling that "skill"

    People have to be aware that nowadays 99% of the ceiling-players are bugusing, cheating and scripting/automate.
    Welcome to the "modern" DAoC.

    Mahv
  • Pointing and clicking? I wish I had a keyboard that came with my computer as well, I could try to use some keys on it from time to time.
  • Skill isn't whether or not you can hit a button. That's what scripting makes easy. Skill is whether or not you hit the right button at the right time. Ability management and situational awareness are still king.
  • @puter not at all. Skill is defined at how fast you can click your abilities, regardless of context.
  • @Shoke I've been bamboozled then. Clearly I need to start rolling my head on the keyboard so I can make them sweet RPs.
  • edited September 2020 PM
    And theres a reason i oways go s/s just keep the target in front and hit my block chain and front dehast stile i dont use programs like mojo even tho they have said that its aloud and not againts the rules i still consider it cheating and i was raised better then that
    Post edited by Names on
  • How are scripting and running weapon/shield related in any way?

    You obviously don't use Mojo (neither do I) because if you did you'd know it's good only for logging characters faster, switching qbars and adjusting some visual settings that you can't in daoc, or running multiple characters in macro teams which is not allowed in RvR.
  • what is the hkey program i keep hearing about ??
  • just buy a naga mouse and bind mulitple task to a button.
  • @47el autohotkey is a free program that anyone with basic understanding of programming logic can pick up and have it working under 10 minutes.

    You can also use the software from your mouse/keyboard.

    You could youtube "daoc stepping up your game" and see videos from daoc knights about qbinds and double binding.
  • so is the old belkin "nostromo" allowed to be used :)
  • @shoke running s/s was just how i handle people who just dance around like they got ants in there pants and those who use scripts and cant get off the best stile no matter what happens

    And your right i have not used programs like mojo but you can bind multiple stiles to one key there was even a video on how to set that up



    Now if you watch and i just misunderstood it let me know im not the type that knows everything and will admit if im wrong
  • Who wants to pay to get destroyed?
  • @Names Ah I didn't know Mojo could do that, it works pretty much exactly like AHK, the coding structure seems different but it does the same thing. I was under the impression that Mojo was strictly for macro groups and firing keys accross multiple opened clients. My bad.

    Dancing monkeys aren't necessarily scripting. You need to "dance" to be able to land positionals on high defense classes. Even on lower weaponskill classes (like a vamp for instance) you need to dance just to reliably land the anytime and get power, regardless of scripts or not.

    They are unrelated things overall. You can dance without scripts. You can land the best style without scripts, it just requires more keys to press.
  • To be honest I don't understand why casual players would be against scripting, as they would be the ones most benefiting from it.

    Landing multiple styles using the old way requires more skill than using a scripting program like AHK. However, good players will still land these styles the old fashioned way, increasing the skill gap even more.

    scripting reduces the skill gap, so banning it would make things even worse for the "casuals".
  • edited September 2020 PM
    @shoke ya its one of thoses thing i think they just made ok then banning it as it can be very hard to tell if someone is useing it. And ya i dont necessary have a problem with dancers heck even im getting better at dancing myself. Ya its a pain in the rear end but its something that needs to be done to get through guards like mine when i go mob and mop on my s/s classes. Its just scripting out side of /qbind that i do jot think should be aloud but i can deal with that

    Feels good to have a discussion where no one is being rude lol
    Post edited by Names on
  • edited September 2020 PM
    !!!!
    Post edited by Brut on
  • I heard them bragging about how much easier it is to fight verse the old style of pointing and clicking.

    Just because people brag about something being good... doesn't mean it's that good. lol.
  • So long as you don't use it to control multiple actions in RvR zones (i.e bots or teams) the official stance allows it. Modern MMOs all have support for some sort of macro actions (or have them natively built in) so DAoC is following the industry.
  • Well, call it what you like but don't think it's the way the game was intended, It's cheating!!! Keep playing guys have fun. You can paint a moose turd then sell it for $5 per (They do in Alaska) but it's still a moose turd. Did you really win the fight or the script you're using won the fight?

    This Great Game, Once Upon a Time, has lost total control of it's R.O.E and game integrity. I don't have to pay or play a game that will keep getting worst, and doing nothing about it.
    See ya
  • idk, I still think if population was good then most of these things wouldn't be seen as issues...
  • Eh no thanks.

    Kind of pathetic that people are sequencing their moves. DAOC should disable programs like that imo.
    Da ant family - 1801, 1802, 1805, 1809 - Da fly family - 4501, 4502, 4503, 4509 - Da spider family - 442, 444, 445, 447
    Check out the trophy collection on Ywain 1. Mid - Carlingford / Hib - Tullamore / Alb - Dalton
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • AHK is convinient, but nothing more. QBinds which been part of the game since day 1 (part of every game to remap keyboard) makes much more difference. Some are trying to adapt their playstyle to be more efficient with keyboard/mouse is not some kind of magic, nor need to use any program. Can blame programs, but it gets you nowhere. Some people are just "good" in this game, and would be without using any utility/special keyboard/mouse. Don't let the false sense lead you to denial, anyone can improve in this game.
  • edited October 2020 PM
    @DaRedANT Most new gaming keyboard/mouse have the option of hardware-imputting more then one action on one button which is almost impossible to detect. However that doesn't make you a good player instantly, it just not how this game works. You just have to be capable to push more then one key/mouse button every 2 seconds. :P
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Actually as a broadsword employee it’s pretty obscene what your doing the only thing your good at is writing a good script but you know as well as I do that there’s more to this a little program called mojo that effectively turns your group into nothing more than a macroing 8 man .
    If it’s not such a big deal why run it if it’s not such a big deal why did the I really cheat groups get banned from free shards.
    It kinda reflects badly on broadsword that it’s allowed here and actually used by there own employeees to farm paying customers.
    You will protest it’s standard from your guys you and irc are the major problem with this game at the moment it cannot be right that one group or 2 groups of people dominate this game to the extent that they do.
    They banned macro groups from the game so why not this
    One button pushers no respect no skill
    Post edited by Brut on
  • @Brut you do realize scripting is allowed on the freeshard right?
  • It literally takes several lines of code for an app like the DAOC launcher to detect an active process using the WMI interface. Why does Broadsword allow any of it? Rationalizing scripting of any kind across machines is outrageous and breaks the game. No difference then allowing athletes to use performance enhancing drugs. Sad our society can rationalize anything if its in thier own self interests.
  • If its going to stay usable in game I might have to give it a shot. But, it does seem like it will heavily restrict new or returning players from signing back up. A lot of people care less about being a elite gamer and just want to kill time or return to their past love of the game. It should not be allowed for the sake of longevity.
  • Using programs such as Auto Hotkey give only a negligible advantage but is probably worth learning to do if you want to maximise your efficiency but is not essential and if you are good enough you won't need to use it. What's holding you back is pointing and clicking - using your keyboard for abilities/spells/styles and the mouse only for targeting/panning (if you have extra buttons on the mouse then face, camera reset, autorun may also be useful to have on there) has been available in the game since day 1 and open to everyone. This is the main barrier to getting good at the game. Pretending otherwise is just denial.
  • Unfirtunetly you are in denial or don’t understand how the I really cheat groups are exploiting mojo and scripting qbinds have been in the game for ages but the use of mojo to effectively turn a group into a one button macro grouo is a recent development.
    Don’t throw out the usual argument to get good to deflect what is actually going on it’s not good for the game or new players and if the players are that good why use it.
    Some very shady practices going on by so called good players I hear it all day in day out by people who quit because they have played with them and seen the very shady stuff going on.
  • I think that you are the one in denial. You are wildly throwing out accusations with buzzwords like "Mojo" and "scripting" without any appreciation of what they mean. You provide only anecdotal evidence and present this as fact. While I can appreciate it is frustrating to die in a game to better players, it is also very unfair and immature to accuse people of cheating when this is blatantly not the case. I would suggest you look at streams/videos of these so-called cheaters, where you will see for yourself that a good understanding of the game, knowing the role of your class and most of all great communication produce the results that you see ingame. I am actually wondering if you are a troll or have become genuinely convinced of your beliefs through repetition (see flat earthers and anti-vaxxers for other such examples).
  • edited October 2020 PM
    TLDR, I am not a broadsword employee, I don't use Mojo, and I stream how I play. Only thing you might see is I use Qbinds. Can put up a tutorial if it helps anyone about QBinds or how to be efficient with mouse/keyboard, its pretty basic. I use AHK on a few toons, but not all of them as its just unneccesary.

    Example on a druid
    ;Healz
    e::
    send, {f1}e
    return

    my E button does heal and root, if you think that makes someone capable, you are severely mistaken, convinient at best, but not even neccessary. I thought streaming gameplay makes it pretty transparent. :)

    There is no secret code or magic, and there are better players then me, i just try my best to improve.

    Edit: some gaming keyboard software sends key via hardware input, ahk is a software, and detectable. It just doesnt make sense to ban one and let one slip, especially since most feared players don't even use them / wouldn't really matter for them.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • Gavner wrote: »
    There is no secret magic

    What a load of BS, DAoC got plenty of magic classes and many of them got secrets im sure. ;)
  • Vrisslar wrote: »
    Gavner wrote: »
    There is no secret magic

    What a load of BS, DAoC got plenty of magic classes and many of them got secrets im sure. ;)

    You got me, now i have to provide a tutorial on how to use dark arts to perform in DAoC.
  • Gavner wrote: »
    Vrisslar wrote: »
    Gavner wrote: »
    There is no secret magic

    What a load of BS, DAoC got plenty of magic classes and many of them got secrets im sure. ;)

    You got me, now i have to provide a tutorial on how to use dark arts to perform in DAoC.

    Looking forward to finally learn about the dark side of things !
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Vrisslar wrote: »
    Gavner wrote: »
    Vrisslar wrote: »
    Gavner wrote: »
    There is no secret magic

    What a load of BS, DAoC got plenty of magic classes and many of them got secrets im sure. ;)

    You got me, now i have to provide a tutorial on how to use dark arts to perform in DAoC.

    Looking forward to finally learn about the dark side of things !

    Most of the secret stones were hidden in Catacombs, but they closed it down since its divine power blinded some people looking at them.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • There are plenty of reasons to bring back Catacombs, with the following secret having surfaced, i think it will only be fair toward new and returning players to bring back the Catacombs, so they can share in the dark arts.
    It seem highly unfair, that this knowledge should not be available to all players.
    Gavner wrote: »
    Most of the secret stones were hidden in Catacombs, but they closed it down since its divine power blinded some people looking at them.

    Wont someone think of the new lil luwies, kobbies and albion fishies !
  • Gavner wrote: »
    @DaRedANT Most new gaming keyboard/mouse have the option of hardware-imputting more then one action on one button which is almost impossible to detect. However that doesn't make you a good player instantly, it just not how this game works. You just have to be capable to push more then one key/mouse button every 2 seconds. :P

    Yeah keyboards that combine 2 buttons, I understand, but that’s not programming 5, 6, 7, buttons all in a row etc. That’s not skill, that’s like claiming you can sing, but only when using autotune. It’s timing everything for you, PLUS it allows you to do other things, because you aren’t as “busy”.

    Imagine a fighting game, like Mortal Kombat, where you can macro combos (you can’t in reality), BUT only when using a 3rd party program. Nobody would consider this skill, even if it were legal.







    Da ant family - 1801, 1802, 1805, 1809 - Da fly family - 4501, 4502, 4503, 4509 - Da spider family - 442, 444, 445, 447
    Check out the trophy collection on Ywain 1. Mid - Carlingford / Hib - Tullamore / Alb - Dalton
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • DaRedANT wrote: »
    Gavner wrote: »
    @DaRedANT Most new gaming keyboard/mouse have the option of hardware-imputting more then one action on one button which is almost impossible to detect. However that doesn't make you a good player instantly, it just not how this game works. You just have to be capable to push more then one key/mouse button every 2 seconds. :P

    Yeah keyboards that combine 2 buttons, I understand, but that’s not programming 5, 6, 7, buttons all in a row etc. That’s not skill, that’s like claiming you can sing, but only when using autotune. It’s timing everything for you, PLUS it allows you to do other things, because you aren’t as “busy”.

    Imagine a fighting game, like Mortal Kombat, where you can macro combos (you can’t in reality), BUT only when using a 3rd party program. Nobody would consider this skill, even if it were legal.







    No capable player does that, neither need to. This is not Mortal-Kombat. Knowing what you do matters more then programming 7 buttons in a row. It achieves nothing, just robs you of agency over what you want to do.

    Highest melee-speed is 1.5, casting times around 1 second. In this game you not going to get any better if you think 7 actions on one key will do you any good.

    Also, why would you be busy? You know which button does what I hope. Maybe if you try find your actions on your qbar with mouse, that might drive your attention, hence QBinds can help in a game with more then 5 abilities. If someone can learn to type blind, it's a piece of cake to remember 10-15 key-abilities on a keyboard.
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Those who argue against scripting should inform themselves first. Download Mojo, autohotkey, or use the program that comes with a modern keyboard/mouse and try it out. Test to see if your gameplay becomes insanely better. My bet is it won't. Unless you have the basics nailed down, no amount of scripting is going to improve your gameplay.

    It's also not surprising that the server is dominated by one or two group. The population is ridiculously low. There isn't even a handful of 8mans that run during either primetime. This wasn't an issue 3+ years ago. We all know where they went. Those of us that remain should be more disgruntled by the lack of development in that time than getting killed by better players in a PvP game.
    Post edited by puter on
  • edited October 2020 PM
    puter wrote: »
    Those who argue against scripting should inform themselves first. Download Mojo, autohotkey, or use the program that comes with a modern keyboard/mouse and try it out. Test to see if your gameplay becomes insanely better. My bet is it won't. Unless you have the basics nailed down, no amount of scripting is going to improve your gameplay.

    It's also not surprising that the server is dominated by one or two group. The population is ridiculously low. There isn't even a handful of 8mans that run during either primetime. This wasn't an issue 3+ years ago. We all know where they went. Those of us that remain should be more disgruntled by the lack of development in that time than getting killed by better players in a PvP game.

    Most people who use / used are pretty aware of its flaws too. Double-binding enemy-friendly target spell is comfortable, but hold no real benefit beyond that.

    When people think it's a smart idea to chain 7 abilities, they will fast notice they going to use stuff they didn't mean to, hence gameplay gets worse. I would advise against assist->face->spell->jump combos either, you quickly realise sometimes you don't want to face, or want to use different spell after, or just want to get the target to prepare to turn when you want. Can't really time programs that work in all scenario, you probably end up gimping your gameplay long-term.

    I get it might sound sweet for someone, who used to click these with mouse 1-by-1, but just don't do that rather, and problem solved.

    Average typing speed is about 40wpm, which is 3.3 keyclicks in a second, most people around computers do double/tripple, then you can add mouse-keys to that, this game doesn't benefit off doing 10 things in a second, only lock you out of agency to do what you want in different situations.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Gavner wrote: »
    Also, why would you be busy?

    Are you kidding me? Let’s say for example, I log in ny NS, and I wanna Perf, CD, and dump on a caster. Ok so here’s a sequence (for 1 specific example) using my QBINDs.

    Buttons
    Mouse Side Button 1 = Perf style (disease or debuff up before perf)
    Z = Sprint
    3 (keyboard) = Insta dot
    4 (keyboard) = Insta DD
    Mouse Side Button 4 = Dot poison (swap poison immediately after first hit/poison lands)
    G = Poisonpike
    E = Creeping Death style

    Now let’s say I wanted to macro these 7 abilities to 1 button, all I would have to do, is land a PA, and then let the program do the rest.

    Because I’m pressing 7 different keys, PLUS movement keys, I’m very “busy”, scripting would make things much EASIER.

    I use buy scripts in Counter Strike, and have used various others, but it’s PART of the game. It doesn’t require a 3rd party program. Those are illegal!

    No matter the current skill lvl of a player, scripting will DEFINITELY make you better, if you put the time into it.

    Post edited by DaRedANT on
    Da ant family - 1801, 1802, 1805, 1809 - Da fly family - 4501, 4502, 4503, 4509 - Da spider family - 442, 444, 445, 447
    Check out the trophy collection on Ywain 1. Mid - Carlingford / Hib - Tullamore / Alb - Dalton
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • Poster above gave a good explanation as to why loading lots of different things to 1 button just isn't the smart thing to do. No idea why any competent NS would need to bind perf + their instas and poisons to one button. You wouldn't want to blow all of those abilities together in EVERY situation. There's only so far qbinds/hotkeying can take you. What most people don't want to hear is that an understanding of the game, and WHEN to use abilities really separates the top players from everyone else. But people prefer to lie to themselves and attribute their losses to other players having advantages from 3rd party programs.
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Esel wrote: »
    Poster above gave a good explanation as to why loading lots of different things to 1 button just isn't the smart thing to do. No idea why any competent NS would need to bind perf + their instas and poisons to one button. You wouldn't want to blow all of those abilities together in EVERY situation. There's only so far qbinds/hotkeying can take you. What most people don't want to hear is that an understanding of the game, and WHEN to use abilities really separates the top players from everyone else. But people prefer to lie to themselves and attribute their losses to other players having advantages from 3rd party programs.

    Bro, nobody said that scripts are for EVERY situation. If I would were to use scripts for DAOC (which I won’t unless Broadsword adds in-game capabilities for them), I would use them in ADDITION to all my QBINDS. Only ADDING to my game.

    Scripting will make any level of player better, PERIOD. Anyone who wants to argue with me about this, COME AND GET SOME.

    Post edited by DaRedANT on
    Da ant family - 1801, 1802, 1805, 1809 - Da fly family - 4501, 4502, 4503, 4509 - Da spider family - 442, 444, 445, 447
    Check out the trophy collection on Ywain 1. Mid - Carlingford / Hib - Tullamore / Alb - Dalton
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Difference is, this is not an FPS. There are great solo players, and difference is not that one being 0.1 second late on insta dd. However i can do that for you without using script, but prolly would put abilities to different binds then in your example. If you think that not binding all those to one button holds you back to do better, without knowing you i would say you are prolly wrong.

    Edit: In that one example it will be more easy to do that one thing, I agree however, now you only need to script everything else to end up using more buttons then without scripts. Just make a few more, like when you want to use mezz poison, when you want to interrupt someone in the distance while doing that, when you want to save your timers, when you prefer go with disease etc etc.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • So you are telling us that making scripts that are super rigid and remove flexibility by adding additional qbinds & keys is a good thing?

    I'd say 99% of all scripts will :
    1. Bind a melee style follow-up with the opener
    2. bind a melee reactionary/positional style to an anytime
    3. bind an offensive and defensive ability on the same key
    4. Loop an ability like the VW/valk buffer

    You can get excited and start putting 5-6 abilities on the same key, but more often than not, your script bugs out because of lag and you end up missing more than anything.
  • I am so good at bard because I have my AE MEZZ, AE amensia, root, 2x dd and demezz, group heal all on one button.
  • It seems like the people that are exaggerating about scripting do not understand or have never used it. It is no I Win button.
    How many of these people crying have a NAGA Mouse or similar with 12+ buttons on it? Is it also cheating to bind all my keys to my mouse?

  • I just want to say that I use absolutely nothing but 1-0+alt+ctr. I've never made a "Qbind" and don't even care to know how. It's never effected my gameplay. I would also consider myself a pretty good player. Pretty sure I've whomped plenty of people who script. Get over it...
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