the changes to the game we want vs the changes to the game BS does.

i think most of the changes that BS does are perceived as game changing.

i think that most of the people want are small and subtle changes, and if they are not enough, just do another small tweak on top.

for example, the new debuffs for banshees and earth wizard.

i think most people would have preferred to see those classes delves increased by another 10 points of damage or in case of wize wizards in another extra 5 points of fire debuffs on their self nuke, raising their self debuff nuke's debuff go up from +10 to + 15 instead of changing the meta.

but BS likes to change the game which results in more an more people who feel the game isn't the same anymore and makes that returning players can't identify with the game anymore.

and on top, most of those game changing mechanics are picked up by the 'elite' while the average player doesn't benefit.

which only increases the difference between the elite and the casual, which again results in casual players quitting the game.

which results in ever fewer players in game.

so imho, TWEAK, don't CHANGE.

change stuff that makes some people / specs a bit better, don't change the meta because changing the meta will only affect a few hard core fixed groups who can adapt to it while the casual random player will not.
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Comments

  • Game gets stale/boring without the Meta changing. So yeah big changes are a good thing.
  • They nerfed Ice Wizzies and boosted Earth Wizzies, big deal.

    They gave Bains a body debuff (nerfed from 50 to 30%), but they removed the Pet Fear spells out of that line. Also not a big deal.
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  • edited August 19 PM
    elite players adopt easely to change and fixed groups will change rapidly to big changes.

    random groups who just invite whoever is available will be ever more at a disadvantage, which results in more and more random players saying '**** this'

    ...

    i have played chess since i was a child, i got gud at it. i still play it. why ? because it's chess. it doesn't change. i would like to think about daoc, which is 20 years old the same. i don't need change, i need tweaks. chess is millenia old, daoc only 20 years old. don't change it, tweak it. if you find daoc stale/boring, we are probably not in the same age category and we will never agree.

    point is, most of daoc players are over 40 years old and probably don't want drastic change.
    Post edited by Muylae on
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • Some of it has to do with classes nobody plays i think. You wont start playing an earth wiz for 10% more damage debuff.
  • edited August 19 PM
    i am sick of getting raped in new and novel ways that i have never been raped before.

    getting beaten by some margin in a new way, ok, getting raped in a new way, ... please no.
    Post edited by Muylae on
    Vicomtessa Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Lord Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
  • I dont get the drama. Sometimes you need small changes, sometimes you need big changes.
    Would you really still play the game when it stays the SAME for 20 years?
    If they made only small changes, I can see someone step in and say: "only small changes, we need big changes!".
  • I'm of the opinion that he is right cause a lot of decisions made by BS haven't had the effect they probably wanted to achieve.
    In addition things like the direct and indirect (item wise) heavy buff only helped the green climberzerg to get even stronger - what situation do we have now? Spending half evenings avoiding them cause there is no way to break through.

    So yes, the game was enormously better before several changes were made.
  • I agree small tweaks are way, not once has there been large scale change that wasn't a absolute **** show for any of the ppl in charge. Most ppl left playing I'd assume are between 30-50 with the few exceptions and aren't interested in huge changes that require relearning the game. If I wanted a new game I'd play a new game.
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  • Muylae wrote: »
    i am sick of getting raped in new and novel ways that i have never been raped before.

    getting beaten by some margin in a new way, ok, getting raped in a new way, ... please no.

    This is why they lose a big portion of the player base. I mean play a class for 6-7 years if not more get rr10+ then they start changing core parts or your class or another class that affects your class in a negative fashion.

    When the game was fresh some would reroll but now it does not take much for a player to just say stuff this I am going.

    We have had years of bump and nerf, it works a few times then it gets tired and old with the same cycles.



  • I believe I understand Muy's point. Casual players are still trying to remember how they are supposed to spec their healing class let alone how to min / max their template. They know the stuff they are supposed to do even if they are still unsure what on earth a stance is. IRC players can recite the entire DAOC item catalog and by agreement will completely respec and re-template so that they can optimize their group. So big changes in a class benefit the hard-core players a bit more than they do the casual ones. I think broadsword likes to keep the game as "fresh" as they can so class changes have an appeal. I hope that if I redo my bainshee based on these changes, that the changes don't get quickly nerfed which has happened at times in the past. Test Test Test and give feedback :)



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  • What I really want is that the mid Zerg stops chasing small men and 8men groups and starts hitting herorius. :)
    You can do it with or without the new debuffs and with or without increased delves. :)
  • Sounds like suicide
  • edited August 19 PM
    [edit]
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • I think the OP and Siambra's post echo the two sides here. I'm probably on the side of always wanting something new and exciting even if its just a new class/race combo. Kobold healers?
  • PvP games in general don't require big changes to keep them interesting. The dynamic component comes from player interactions. However, I can see why a subset of players would want big changes since DAoC uses DnD-like roles and has PvE content. The problem is those changes manifest themselves in RvR with unforeseen and/or undesirable consequences since they are not separated (i.e. ToA). Changing the meta is fine but that can be accomplished with tweaks without having to redesign entire classes, adding entirely new sets of abilities, or expanding the gear creep. Changes implemented by Broadsword were aimed at a subset of players that wanted more buttons to press. Ironically, most of those players are gone now. So what have those changes actually accomplished? The player base certainly hasn't improved as the majority still don't understand or even use basic game mechanics. Why do they still play despite the skill gap having increased so much? RvR. That should be the focus. Raising the skill ceiling for the sake of change was and still is a terrible approach at keeping DAoC interesting.
  • Only to get it right...are there any game changing changes in the upcoming patch? Or re-designs of classes?
  • edited August 20 PM
    Kroko wrote: »
    Only to get it right...are there any game changing changes in the upcoming patch? Or re-designs of classes?

    No. This is their first mild patch since 2014 AND it took them over 8 months to just release it on Pendragon. That's a different issue in itself. Changes are still coming so the final draft may not be so mild upon release. My point was all the drastic changes they implemented previously have amounted to nothing but a lesser player base (some things were reverted but much remains) and the Devs struggle with changing up RvR dynamics which should be their focus. Throwing RP rewards around while periodically and sometimes permanently increasing the RP bonus is a cop out approach, imo.

    Edit:. Not to put too fine a point on it but a large part of this patch is them 'fixing' problems they caused.
    Post edited by puter on
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