Broken Realm Balance?
Dear Broadsword,
I personally don't care as I can run a group, small man or whatever....but for the Average player?
Please look at how dominant Hibernia is because of inherent class balance issues (Stun Nuke Nuke, insta amnesia at bolt range followed by insta mezz means you cant run way either) combined with a very inspirational leader that sucks up the population to his Zerg. The RP's by realm, the Kills/Death by realm, everything screams imbalance.
If you cannot see this, I don't know what to say. If you want a healthy game post-COVID bump, a serious review of Hibernia inherent class advantages as well as serious review of the ability to swap realms is necessary.
This is my first post after playing this game for many years.
When Herorius can muster 50+ Hibs against a dozen or so defenders and go realm-to-realm hopping keep to keep, there's a problem, and the problem is the bandwaggon.
Thank you,
Dobroi
I personally don't care as I can run a group, small man or whatever....but for the Average player?
Please look at how dominant Hibernia is because of inherent class balance issues (Stun Nuke Nuke, insta amnesia at bolt range followed by insta mezz means you cant run way either) combined with a very inspirational leader that sucks up the population to his Zerg. The RP's by realm, the Kills/Death by realm, everything screams imbalance.
If you cannot see this, I don't know what to say. If you want a healthy game post-COVID bump, a serious review of Hibernia inherent class advantages as well as serious review of the ability to swap realms is necessary.
This is my first post after playing this game for many years.
When Herorius can muster 50+ Hibs against a dozen or so defenders and go realm-to-realm hopping keep to keep, there's a problem, and the problem is the bandwaggon.
Thank you,
Dobroi
Post edited by Dobroi on
Comments
the same stuff every month.
I can tell you that Mid has split their realm in two during US primetime.
There is the Asatur BG and then everyone else. They only use TS3 which is another CON to realm unity, because most are on Discord now. This leaves the Midgard BG significantly underpopulated and split.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
I wanted to add my thoughts, and hope for a rebalancing that is clearly needed.
On the other hand, you dismissed it out of hand. So either you play Hib and love having 4-6 relics all the time, or maybe you just solo or 8man and don’t care at all about realms.
Either way, please contribute to posts or just don’t hit the reply button.
Thanks.
please ignore the people of EU-Albs and EU-Mids because they are not interested in grouping and zerging against Hibernia. You builded EXTRA for that whiners Oildoors at the outer Oils and nerfed so many Hib-Classes nearly to dead now.... if you will go on to listen to EU-Albs and EU-Mids you will loose ALL EU-Players soon.
The best way would be: Give all 3 realms the same classes...so the whiners can stop crying
Champs lost their recently added AOE debuffs what else am I missing m8.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
The Warden freezing vest-proc snares the warden if it procs (lol)
Animst can only use baselinenukes in keepfights
Banshee-Pulse only 6 times
Stunfield on less played classes like champ/menta -> Most played classes in mid-zerg are runemasters and thanes wich have stunfields
See population US-Prime-Time: 45% Mids and 45% Albs, 10% Hibs.
Population EU-Prime-Time is Hib the favorite because they are playing TOGETHER and have a perfect BG-Leader!
EU-Albs and EU-Mids are a very bad community --> No one helps each other, no one listen to a bg-leader. I played all 3 realms: Hibs have the best community but the worst classes.
The Animist has a what bolt range long duration root. Also animist pets are buggy AF. Once they have you as a target they will nuke through walls.
Not to mention the Shroom of life shenanigans...
Also “stunfield” is this referring to the ST realm ability or the AOE stun from Healers?
I think overall most realms would love to have casters who can stun + nuke like Hibernia.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
And take away the idiotic wizard-loyality cloak that albs can plant 2 traps in a row. Pls bevor Mrbadwolf getting rr14 for setting up stupid traps.
There was never a really balance in DAOC. But Hibernia was most of the time the underpopulated realm on all servers (i can only speak for the old EU-Servers)
Hibernia classes are so much nerved now...more than all other classes from mid and alb together.
Give all classes to all realms and lets see which classes are most played then.... i am sure not an animist or a banshee or hero or bm.
True there are some classes that need some change to a line or two. I think some of the weaker class or classes that people don't play need some unique spells that other classes don't have.
Corpseshovel - Oldstanky - Nogvi
The reason people hate to PvP is they are afraid of failure
After playing a bard, healer and sorc, bard is not OP to the others. They just have to be played differently.
Every realm , you can stun nuke nuke as well. every alb group has a cleric. Every mid group has 1 or 2 healers.
Learn to assist. Its been this way for 19yrs.
Mid has only one Class that is able to compete... somehow....
As i am not playing the 50-Game i can only speak for the BGs...
Mahv
Just before it went Live an “8 man” started a keep raid, then swapped to defend the CK vs the zerg then realm swapped back to the original realm to finally finish off the Keep.
Now they swap but typically only once for action vs multiples times.
Also just because you realm hop and play other toons doesn’t mean that spamming insta confusion at Bolt range makes it “playing differently” fair.
Stun plus nuke on the same cloth caster is a lot different then two people having to coordinate together in the other two realms.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
I propose the following, which should have been included at launch.
1. ALL realms have the SAME range for ALL crowd control.
2. ALL realms have access to the SAME crowd control. That means everyone gets stun, mez, and root, in single and AE forms on ONE character as mid has had since launch.
3. Increase crowd control immunity timers to 10 minutes for ALL methods of crowd control, including melee and shield stuns.
4. Address healing inequalities across the board by introducing more heals and HoT's to the current character profiles.
5. Eliminate the ability to stun/nuke and mez/nuke by including a 1 minute anti-nuke casting timer on casters with CC. You either contribute through DPS or CC, but you don't get both.
Crowd control is, has been, and will always be garbage in RvR and should have been relegated to PvE only. RvR should be about fighting, not CCing poor slobs and killing them while they're helpless.
lol^^
The point is, Herorius runs a bg every day at the same time, and the other realms do not. Apparently alot of people like this and hence play in this hib bg.
You can now nerf some hib classes, but it will not change anything. Hero will still run every day and the other realms will not.
Btw. in US time the story looks quite different. I wonder if US people also complain about hibs!?
Only recently the difference is bigger again. But before that the 3 realms were almost the same. With a difference of 5% maybe.
Main difference here is that the class getting the Stun is most of the time a high Dex Race with a Dex bonus due to class, sadly there are no Saracen Clerics or Kobold Healers, so comparing those with each other faults here.
My take would be add a Stun to the weakest cast line on one of the Mid/Alb Caster Classes (Earth Wizard and Suppresion Runemaster?) generally i would rather buff someone then nerf someone, and side note SPEC Stun not baseline meaning you have to skill it to be usefull.
again this is only my opinion.
and afaik does the Vamp get climb wall for free ? Savage and Minstrel have to skill that ? Why ? I would ask this to be reviewed, and in the way, give Savage and Minst Climb for free, not remove it from the Vamp (again boost vs nerf)
And then you would give a stun to druid too? As clerics/healers have.
And an insta stun to bard? As minstrel has.
And what we do about mid ae stun!?
There are issues with the game especially around keep takes. The Hibs were using 6/7 Trebs the other day all hitting for 700+ damage meaning insta death. That is wrong and bad game design. The game should have drop points in and around keeps where these can be dropped to limit their numbers. You can't defend it and NF when first out had great keep battles, just don't exist now.
But the main issue right now is one player and his zerg and the current game design panders to him and his childish style of playing.
You must not understand what "close" is. There is a consistent trend on this graph and a consistent gap. Fortunately, nobody pays you to analyze data. There are consistent periods of significant differences between realms and it is consistently Hib on top.
I meant the last months, April and May, where the 3 lines are very close, and only a difference of about 5%.
Yes, but the trend shouldn't be based on 3 months. Look at the entire dataset of the last year.
I gave you here a reason why hibs could have been on top of rps last year:
There were also some IRC dudes playing hib for a while.
If 8 people (that are very good) move the needle that much, it proves the point that the realm is broken
Hibs got nerfed with last semi-patch. Champ got nerfed. This grp had a champ in grp.
You seriously think Champs move the needle that much?
http://www.excidio.net/herald/stats/rr/
Please review the by class numbers.
The rest was done by Hero bg, which runs every day and has often no counter in other realms.
Glad, that i could clarify this for you.
So one group and one man cause the imbalance? Proves something is broken...
Do we want to talk about it?
EU PrimeTime BG Herorius ...... every time we enter an albion keep the courtyard looks like the parking lot of a mall during the Christmas holidays ..... dozens of catapults ....... we really want to talk about it ?
If alternate comms is the reason people aren't joining the ONLY Mid US Prime BG, then the realm deserves to die. That is the dumbest **** I've ever heard.lol
Regarding the original intent of this thread, realm imbalance has less to do with class design and more to do with leadership (an echoing statement). Hero is a consistent, effective, and "veteran" BG leader. He largely runs unopposed during EU prime today with a few exceptions. Anna was the longest contending BG leader against Hero but was NOT effective. US prime used to be dominated by Alb and Mid since they were the only two realms that had a consistent BG leader (Rescu and Xyorman) while Hib had intervals of dominance due to short term leaders.
All three realms appear to have a BG leader up during US prime but differ largely in terms of their effectiveness which boils down to skill. The more skilled players you have in a BG, the less players you need to dominate the other realms. This is less of an issue when the population as a whole is large (greater than 100 per BG), but becomes strikingly obvious when the population is low (40-50 per BG at best). Numbers matter but skill trumps numbers in today's game because the population is low. Therefore, you need skilled players leading and running with BGs to be effective or you will be dominated regardless of class balance.
Completely agree with this statement.
So many times I've come to these threads and same old posts, hibs overpowered. It's nothing to do with classes and Puter hit it on the nail. Everyone saying it's Herorius killing the game but no one of mid/alb during EU prime-time run consistent bg's that's why everyone flocks to hib.
I ran a hib bg during US prime-time and we got very good numbers after a while of running it but no one these days has patience.
And it's always the same old argument from HIB players saying "Oh just lead a BG to fight Hero". It's laughable. Come to Alb and make a BG that is outnumbered 70-30 on a daily basis and see how long your taste for running a BG lasts. Come defend a keep on Alb and deal with the 15 Heros/Vamps that roll through the keep and add on the catapult team and stun nukers. Even with Purge 5 you can purge one stun then 60 seconds later when they get you with another you are most likely dead. The current meta is all about keep warfare and numbers matter, so yes Hibs have the numbers on a daily basis. And during the US prime the US hibs have the luxury of defending day in and day out.
So until you Hib lifers try another realm and actually see the issues I'd suggest sticking with that other server.
I play all three realms and can honestly say it's a leadership problem hands down. Mid dominated under Xyorman for a long time until Nate led the Alb BG. You know what happened when Xyorman quit? The Mid population tanked hard. Guess what would happen to Hib if Hero quit? I agree it's hard fighting an uphill battle but nothing will change unless you climb it. This is how the game has always worked. The low population is what makes it more extreme in terms of imbalance. Hero can and has been beaten. But no leader sticks around long enough to keep that momentum going. All it would honestly take is 2-3 set 8mans to obliterate Hero. Too bad the game can't even sustain that anymore.
Mid is its own worst enemy at times tbh. The new BG leader is doing a solid job maybe they they can regain some members back to Mid.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
lol^^[/quote]
There was no jest in that post.
Sadly, people don't want "balance", and never have. They just want "I win" abilities, but don't have the integrity to admit it.
You also have the problem on alb of no coordinated bg defence albs will not join a voice com or create sensible bg groups but that’s up to individuals and that’s not a game design problem.
If your talking 8 man I’d say in my experience of running my merc setup against the eu 8 mans I would say mid is the dominant realm with the cheese ball thane energy train flavour of the month group.
The only groups we can’t kill are patars group and lomax and sijn groups all on mid we can kill most hib groups apart from bolteax grp now this is with my merc melee hybrid group on alb.
I’m pretty sure patars dominates on all 3 realms but they run a set group with set people if your running a pug on alb you can struggle it’s hit and miss.
As for alb I would say the caster groups are pretty strong and hybrid setups are good but melee wise you have not the same synergy as on the other realms
I would like to see melee tics and reavers maybe given either a damage boost or some sort of damage conversion similar to the other realms and Armsman well we have had a very long thread on that.
And the minstrel aoe mez spell casting speed reduced to 2.5 really not too much to ask.
Overall pretty balanced throughout all 3 realms apart from alb melee.
The server maintenance modes should reset the relics. If that isn't a viable solution to relic dominance by a realm then disable them completely and factor in a certain amount of keeps/towers = the bonuses from the relics. That way it would constantly fluctuate the damage/heal rewards. The problem with this would be that too much siege would pollute the landscape. The Devs would have to offer more art/geometry options for keeps and limit how many siege engines could be used.
Albion-
The main problem with albion is the skill lines and how they are done. The average player will migrate to the spec line that has the most toys(utility). By design the abilities for albion are usually all dumped into 1 spec line and the other 2 for most lines are lackluster. Mid doesn't have a bad spec line for its runemaster. Hib doesn't either. Alb has a fire wizard that was king for so long and now most don't want it in their group when they can invite a matter cab.
Conclusion-
The dev team needs to spread some of the utility out and have more imagination with the 3rd spec lines for albion.
The imagination of the dps healers is sad for this game for any realm.
It should be something similar to the Rift Warden class. They got scaleable HoTs, and cures, ablative type shields as well as damaging abilities. This would enable people to be that dps class and not hurt the cohesion of the groups as well as be the healer at the same time.
Yep, totally agree with these points!
I think the only reason people whine is because how many flock to Hibernia to join Herorius zerg and that's the only reason they want to see them nerfed. I think this is an awful answer to make realms balanced, nothing should be nerfed. Each realm needs leadership and right now there isn't any in Alb and Mid because they give up to easily. I'm tired of players that keep asking for a boost for their class because they can't win, well maybe organise a bg to counter Herorius rather than trying to do it through the game mechanics.
I've played hib during US prime-time and exactly the same issue like EU timewith Herorius when there zerg is to big and we can't combat them because of the numbers. You can deny this as much as you want but to continue to say hibs should be nerfed isn't the answer to your problems.
I just came back after many years gone. Joined the Herorius zerg a few times because that's all there is. In a couple hours you get a tiny fraction of maybe 50 actual kills and PvE a bunch of keeps. Which is worth 100k RPs, instead of the 5k RPs it should be worth for the players killed.
Without the keep take bonus, the zerg gets bored and groups split off to try to intercept the trickle of defenders and hog the RPs. Which reduces the RPs for the zerg even more, so even more groups split off or change realms.
Wizards suck in general not because of their spec, but because the class that debuffs for them is the body sorc. So id you go high body you can't go high Mind, therefore to have decent cc you need 2 sorcs. And now that you have 2 body dps, why use a wizard again?
Wizards should be the elemental debuffer on alb, not the sorc. Put that in the earth line. I wonder where I saw that