The solution is having two alternative revenue streams.
Stream #1, subs. You want to keep a sub, but it has to offer 100% peace of mind. I don't want to make a single Mythril shop purchase if I sub.
Stream #2, pay per use type. accessing the game is "free", however to get what the subs get, you need to go through the mythril shop.
Basically, you would want stream #2 to spend 15$/month if that player is playing as much as the average subbed account player.
For hardcore players, sub will for sure be more enticing than pay per use. However, players that don't have a lot of time and for whom sustaining a sub doesn't make sense (even if it's "only" 15$, throwing 15$ dollars in the garbage is still stupid).
Example, for trucks Michelin offers a "rental" service for tires. You pay a monthly fee, and all the tires you need for your float of trucks are taken care of. Every tire has a chip that monitors the wear on the tires and once it reaches a certain point, Michelin replaces them. This makes sense when you have a lot of trucks and updating tires would cost millions of dollars at once, but it's less attractive to a smaller business that only has 1-2 trucks.
A similar approach should be taken by BS regarding their EC.
But again, if I sub, I do not want to pay a single $ in the mythril store and if I choose "EC", I don't want a cloak token to cost 10 bucks, it needs to be balanced.
Hmm some sound ideas there shoke I would think pricing would be the key on the non sub account getting that right would be a balancing act but still I like the idea
I realize that Inarus' Bounty, Sudari's Bounty, and Eliana's Bounty quests are the only three quests that are repeatable once a week for bounty points. However, the level 30 and 40 glass/ bounty point quests are supposed to be repeatable as many times as you like for gold and XP after you do them once for bounty points. The level 30 ones can only be repeated in some realms (Mid and Hib on Ywain) and not others (Alb Ywain, Hib Gaheris).
For Albion, Ywain players it's annoying, but not game breaking because you can just head to Molvik.
Not so on Gaheris. The only viable way way to get from 35/36 to 40 right now on many classes is to grind random mobs. Some classes can't complete the dungeon quests solo, and you will be soloing in this level range on Gaheris. Fixing the level 30 quests so that you can repeat them for gold and XP like you used to be able to when they were glass quests (and like you can do currently in most realms on Ywain) would help a lot with this problem.
If this quest series can't be fixed, or would be too hard to fix, I highly recommend opening up task dungeons again on Gaheris. Or opening up Molvik for that matter. Either would work.
Breakpoints are stupid. Number of fights won because you casted .0001 seconds faster = close to zero
Get the mez off first. Both sides interrupted, cast first. Get stun off before their mez. Break points are significant. 3.0 373-374 and 2.8 391 v 392 are both 10% faster. Going out on a limb that 10% cast speed in template is a must for your casters.
Would be cool if they expanded where BPs drop so old content could be used again without having to change drops. New skins from old bosses could be cool though.
Even if they just expand the number of mobs who "drop" BP's to all quest mobs (even if you didn't have the quest), that might re-vitalize old content.
One suggestion for the upcoming patch... move supply crates away from the so called solo spots...
This is a good idea actually. You've got people who will sit around and solo, but they'll also "why not" take out that R2 just farming. I like the idea of doing supply quests in a loop around the Hlid/Surs/DDB keeps so if small mans are hunting solos, they'd check ruins, maize, and that keep (and possibly both docks as well). Risk vs reward is out of balance currently. You should be able to do a few runs (if saavy) without getting ganked. Now, especially if its slow out, you're just chum.
Breakpoints are stupid. Number of fights won because you casted .0001 seconds faster = close to zero
Get the mez off first. Both sides interrupted, cast first. Get stun off before their mez. Break points are significant. 3.0 373-374 and 2.8 391 v 392 are both 10% faster. Going out on a limb that 10% cast speed in template is a must for your casters.
Don't confuse "getting mezz or stun off first" with breakpoints - breakpoints increase the speed of a spell by tenths or hundredths of a second - the odds that that is going to be the deciding factor over range, quickness of targeting, reflexes (executing spell), resists, interrupts, etc. is less than minimal. Not to mention the fact that server/client latency pretty much glosses over small differences like this, and breakpoints are really ONLY impactful when casting the same spell multiples times in a row.
Don't compare 10% casting speed with the difference between a 374 and 392 breakpoint, for example. That's a grape and a watermelon - casting speed has a very tangible difference in casting - dex after 350ish does not.
No one wants your opinion on game mechanics. You could run Aug Dex 7 on a toon or you could run MoC 4 or have an extra level (or two) of Purge - I guarantee you the extra level of an active ability is going to win far more fights. That's not to mention factoring in dex debuffs.
You could do a blind test on people's own characters and have them guess how much dex they're running - I guarantee many people wouldn't notice the difference.
@Enkertons
It depends on what you do, for some classes/situations high dex is quite important, where moc is maybe not.
For example play a healer. You will want high dex, if you try to heal someone who has an assist train on hisself.
Having high dex can be decisive for getting out one more spell. A healer can heal 1000hps+ with one spell.
A bomb can make 1200+ dmg with one spell (with crit maybe more). If this is not important, then i dont know.
Linear dependence on Dex would be fine. Breakpoints are due to something rounding in the code. That's sloppy, imo.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Don't confuse "getting mezz or stun off first" with breakpoints - breakpoints increase the speed of a spell by tenths or hundredths of a second -
Failure to state facts correctly leads us unable to argue this point. Again, the cast speed difference for a 2.8 391 vs 392 dex and 3.0 speed 373 374 dex is 10% faster. It's a bit more than a few hundreths of a second. A tenth of a second for a spell that takes 1 second to cast is very significant given player reaction times.
Can you visibly see the difference? Well I was a classicly trained musician as a kid, so yeah, the difference is glaring for me, but maybe not everyone can tell you if something is 1.0 second or 1.1 second to cast. That's a straw man argument.
So, to spend 36 more dex you get a 0.04 sec (4 hundreth of a sec).
What Enk is saying is that hitting 398 on some classes is super easy, take a saracen cab. Takes like 115 dex in template and Aug dex 2-3. That's a no brainer.
However, for let's say a mauler to get 398, you need to pick the highest dex class, have a 127 template (sacrificing a bunch of toys in the process), put all your starting points in dex AND get Aug dex 5-6 on top.
Do you think that investment is worth it for 0.04 sec off cast speed?
And that 0.04 sec is only really true for cc, because if you only think about getting rupted mid cast, your spell will go through if you are past 50% of the cast. This means that the 0.04 sec is actually a 0.02 sec advantage.
Breakpoints are OK and should be met when it is easy. If you need to sacrifice a bunch of active toys/abilities to get to a really high dex breakpoint, you are gimping yourself.
@Kroko Getting moc5 on a healer over a really high amount of dex (higher than the standard 374 breakpoint) is absolutely worth it, compared to having the abilitiy to cast one more heal spell out of every 25 heals
Example, take a Aug healer (40 aug 36 mend), his major is on a 2.6 while his greater is a 2.2 sec cast.
Going from 373 to 374 will see approx 5% faster cast speed on the 2.2 sec greater. That's 5 more spells out of 100 spells, so 1 more heal every 20 heals. If you can pump 20 heals into someone while not being interrupted, you are fighting idiots.
Same goes for the 2.6 sec cast, you will get an approx 9% cast speed improvement going from 373 to 374. So it's one more heal every 10ish heals. That seems more appropriate and seems to be an acceptable treshold.
I probably took the worst example because the last breakpoint for the 2.2 and 2.6 sec spells is 374, but you get the point.
So, to spend 36 more dex you get a 0.04 sec (4 hundreth of a sec).
What Enk is saying is that hitting 398 on some classes is super easy, take a saracen cab. Takes like 115 dex in template and Aug dex 2-3. That's a no brainer.
However, for let's say a mauler to get 398, you need to pick the highest dex class, have a 127 template (sacrificing a bunch of toys in the process), put all your starting points in dex AND get Aug dex 5-6 on top.
Do you think that investment is worth it for 0.04 sec off cast speed?
And that 0.04 sec is only really true for cc, because if you only think about getting rupted mid cast, your spell will go through if you are past 50% of the cast. This means that the 0.04 sec is actually a 0.02 sec advantage.
Breakpoints are OK and should be met when it is easy. If you need to sacrifice a bunch of active toys/abilities to get to a really high dex breakpoint, you are gimping yourself.
@Kroko Getting moc5 on a healer over a really high amount of dex (higher than the standard 374 breakpoint) is absolutely worth it, compared to having the abilitiy to cast one more heal spell out of every 25 heals
Example, take a Aug healer (40 aug 36 mend), his major is on a 2.6 while his greater is a 2.2 sec cast.
Going from 373 to 374 will see approx 5% faster cast speed on the 2.2 sec greater. That's 5 more spells out of 100 spells, so 1 more heal every 20 heals. If you can pump 20 heals into someone while not being interrupted, you are fighting idiots.
Same goes for the 2.6 sec cast, you will get an approx 9% cast speed improvement going from 373 to 374. So it's one more heal every 10ish heals. That seems more appropriate and seems to be an acceptable treshold.
I probably took the worst example because the last breakpoint for the 2.2 and 2.6 sec spells is 374, but you get the point.
@Shoke I mentioned the 2.8 and 3.0 breakpoints because they are the most necessary and both give over a 10% difference. (Even the 2.6 is similar as you mentioned). YOU THINK FINDING THE ONE BREAKPOINT THAT's nearly meaningless proves your point? Get back to me when you are willing to talk about aoe mez break point cast differences or the most frequent DPS cast breakpoints. Again, Greater than 10% to cast speed is not "just a hundredth" of a second, it's larger than the difference in reaction times between users. K. TY.
@Koe you obviously didn't understand my post, not sure why you are all upset about it. By the way why are you getting cranked up? I merely explained in more detail Enk's point of view.
If you feel like getting Aug Dex 7 to get a 0.02-0.05 faster cast time instead of getting higher moc or purge good for you.
You must be quite the daoc player to see a huge benefit from casting 0.04 seconds faster
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
As i have read in the forum repossession of houses will be re-introduced. This is in its way fine, some landmarks can be freed up for others to buy the land and build a house.
I do however have a few suggestions to you now you are changing stuff regarding to the housing zones. Some post I have read you even suggest that you develop a level 5 house, which would be very nice to see and use.
1) In the current level four houses, the number of merchants you can have is very limited. It is not possible to have a teleporter, smith, grandmaster merchant, taxidermist merchant, alchemist and spell crafting merchant in the same house. It would be nice if you could optimize the number of slots in the level four houses, or implement it with your new level 5 houses. If a player has more than 1 or 2 crafting lines and wish to do his or her crafting inside own house or guild house, the player has to move from house to house, or change merchants all the time. It would therefore be preferable to have access to more merchants in the big houses.
2) Consignment merchants amount of money held. It can be very annoying when a player week after week search consignment merchants in houses for a special item, just to find out that the player merchant on a specific house is filled up with money. Typically, it is due to the fact that people have a break from the game or forget to empty their house merchant. I therefore suggest that you increase the amount of money that the house merchant can hold so that other players can benefit from the items set for sale. It is a big problem on the Gaheris server, where for example, Apocalypse shields are for sale (10 pcs) by the same player but this player is not currently playing so he cannot empty his merchant for money.
3) Repossession of guild houses. It is not to my knowledge that guild houses can be repossessed?. To free up good space and attractive towns I find it reasonable that if nobody from a guild has been online for a period of time ex. 6 months then the house could be removed, after the same rules as personal houses, to a guild master account. If more than one guild master account, the money for the house could be put into the bank account of that guild instead.
4) Crafting.
It is easier and quieter to craft in housing than in the capital cities. What is the reason for always having a crafting bonus in the capital cities, with further distance to merchants, more ppl spamming in the chat and asking for stuff?
It would be nice to have the same bonus in housing as in the capital cities if possible.
Best regards
Vonwar
GM of Danish Huscarls Ywain & Gaheris.
New user Journey quest:
In every town for each level series, there are two quests that ask you to go to the battlegrounds. Battlegrounds does NOT exist on the Gaheris server, unfortunately the are not implemented apart from Cathal Valley. It would be nice if you could implement them for several reasons.
1) Players could do the quests on new user journey, not having to skip 2 quests in each town.
2) Players could try out mini RVR like on Ywain if you put monsters of an equal level into the center keeps of the battlegrounds.
LVL 50 quests in the frontier:
I see from the recent newsletter text that the weekly quests no longer will be offered to Gaheris players. That is fine, when we can not complete them anyway.
Apart from that there is a series of quests in the Frontiers which we can not make or complete. I will list them below:
1) Supplies quest. There is no rubble nor boxes to be found in ruined areas.
2) Doppelgangers quest. There are no Doppelgangers to be found in the frontier on Gaheris.
Towers:
It could be nice for everybody playing solo, duo or small group to be able to take towers at a reduced amount of dreaded seals. Like on Ywain there used to be towers on Gaheris for a period between two patches. They were never used for anything but could be good for small bands of players or ppl of lvl 45+ to train on before they start taking keeps.
Catacombs:
It would be nice to get back Catacombs. I can not see any reason why Catacombs should be taken away from the game just because of the story line of Dragons revenge. If so, we are many that hope for catacombs to be reintroduced so ppl have extra zones to farm for money xp and clxp. It would be nice to keep the dragons revenge campaign aswell. Especially for Gaheris players the Catacombs zone was important because of the Sentient shield with 10% extra pve. Blocking. This item now can not be farmed, it can not be bought from merchants and it can not be acquired through the Darkspire instant cave.
Best regards
Vonwar
GM of Danish Huscarls of Ywain and Gaheris.
4) Crafting.
It is easier and quieter to craft in housing than in the capital cities. What is the reason for always having a crafting bonus in the capital cities, with further distance to merchants, more ppl spamming in the chat and asking for stuff?
It would be nice to have the same bonus in housing as in the capital cities if possible.
I always thought it was because the capital was supposed to be where people would always be and where you could get answers to some questions/look for someone to assist with crafting.
I think its just to make capital cities have a purpose.
Otherwise no one would go there anymore.
Or they dont want the "looking for SC" spam in frontiers.
I find it anoying that crafting speed in frontiers is slower. I would rather craft in frontiers being able to read the chat and react if sth interesting happens.
In capital cities you cant do anything but crafting, which is pretty boring.
i started DAOC 18 years ago and stopped after TOA destroyed Gamebalance.
Dont bet me wrong, TOA as a addon on is extremely nice to me. I love the TOA areas and love the feeling of being in the water. But RVR-wise the TOA-items and abilities killed the game.
Now i found that there is a new start and tested it for about a week, obvioulsy the free-version.
Long story short.... loving it.
Love the feeling, love to see my old chars still around.
Never the less..... RVR is the same bullshit like 15 years ago.
Stun or Mezz, bumm bumm, dead within 2 seconds....( both caster and melee can do that )
No way to avoid because everyone has more speed than my Skald.
No way to get away because everyone has several Mezzbrakes and Stun.Mezz and Root -abilities.
In one word RVR is still meaningless.
For that reason i will obviously not upgrade to a sub.
I will play the game as i love it and dont care about the 50 times i get ganked and killed in 2 sec per day.
But the hopes are stil up.
There was an article about DAOC-Classic.
That would be heaven.
No TOA-Boni, no BS-Classes like Vamp, Mauler, Heretic.... etc..
In General the smaller the possible gap between normal gear and abilites to top-tier gear and abilities the more people will enjoy and will also be willing to pay for it...
Nobody want to pay for getting killed in 2 seconds....
Just my 2 cents. CU in the game
Always happy to spend my RP. 5555555
@Mahvash
It's definitely faster now than it was. You have to get used to the speed. It is possible.
Maybe try to find a grp and don't run solo.
No, i will never run in a group. Stupid ganking....better wait for Classic.
no problem with waiting. Found all my Chars in the meanwhile means plenty of stuff to do.
Mine, Inf, Pala, Merc, Ranger, Hero, etc..... all need to get 50
I don't understand how people can catch your skald? You have max speed + plenty of getaway tools.
And I don't get how you won't get blapped on classic? You'll just sit mezzed longer than now.
Out of a feeled 1000 times i got jumped on i got away exactly 0 times. For every single getaway-tool there is another one to catch me again... After the first 100 times of getting killed in 2 seconds i just stood still, prepared to push the release button and get myself a drink or some soul-food.
But i am not angry, it is like it is. Seems somebody think that this is good... great, go for it.
But i for myself will wait for classic to pay for the game again. The actual-live-server is not worth spending any money.
Skald-Speed also seems not to be so special anymore... everybody has it, most are even faster...
I will stop playing the Skald as the main reason i started with it is not there anymore.
The only speed in the game faster than mount + saddle, Skald, Bard, and Minstrel is the Bard's Loyalty Cloak /use.
Note: Enchanters, Healers, and Sorcerers also get the same speed as Skalds.
If you're getting killed in two seconds, then you likely need a new template. Skalds have plenty of escape tools. It just takes practice to use them efficiently.
Post edited by Tyrantanic on
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
The only speed in the game faster than mount + saddle, Skald, Bard, and Minstrel is the Bard's Loyalty Cloak /use.
Note: Enchanters, Healers, and Sorcerers also get the same speed as Skalds.
If you're getting killed in two seconds, then you likely need a new template. Skalds have plenty of escape tools. It just takes practice to use them efficiently.
Yeah, you are probably right.
But even if i can stand 1 more pbae or life leech that means i stand 3 seconds.... still the same bullshit..
3 or 4 times even my RR7 SB got jumped while in stealth and died in 2 seconds.... how can this happen ?
Didnt even have the time to push Purge and Vanish....very funny gameplay nowadays...
So, still no reason to pay for that game.
Hopefully Classic will come very soon.....
But if not... New World will start in April.
@Mahvash How long since you've actively played the game?
Between not being updated on class changes and then concluding that classic is the solution there is a bit of a gap.
As an example, you mention your SB. Did you spec any MoS? They changed the stealth mechanics last patch, so if you don't have any MoS then you are running around as cannon fodder.
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
I don't think classic is inherently boring but I can completely see why coming from Ywain. Best patch setting, imo is 1.9X. The gap isn't too large between casuals and no lifers at that setting but still "fast" enough for the ADD folks who want to be competitive. Problem right now is Ywain is designed for hardcore gamers but does nothing to promote the game in that direction. Hence why the population is horrid. They either need to strike a balance or start promoting the game for what it is.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
Just need to find the proper balance to keep your more serious casuals and hardcore players. This wouldn't be much of an issue though if there were 3 zergs on, 1 in each realm during primetimes. Most of your casuals will join the zerg, most of your hardcore will join 8v8. Dragonslayer patch era seems like a good place to start for me, but I also wouldn't mind if they started it as classic/SI and gave us the next expansion every 6 months. Nostalgia will clearly bring in the most amount of players possible, then it's a matter of keeping them by adding the later expansions, in a new way, at scheduled dates.
Example would look like:
January 2021: Classic/SI/Housing server launch
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
However we have no idea what @John_Broadsword vision of a classic ruleset is, even if they went that route.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
I would stay on a ToA server, I do think you should be able to unlock all Master Levels and all artifacts using an alterante currency, maybe make it Dragon Scales which then can be used to buy DF drops, SI dungeon drops, dragon drops and ToA stuff. Instead of having DF seals, SI dungeon currency, dragon scales and atlantean glass I would prefer only one alternate currency.
Making the stuff purchasable by copper, silver, gold and/or platinum would also be ok with me to get rid of alternate currencies altogether.
Bounty Points could be used to purchase respec stones, XP-scrolls (should be tradable if implemented in my opinion) and the patterns so that you can choose how your equipment looks (make Shades of Mist look nice).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
Maybe alternate between old and new frontier, make minor changes see how those work. After enough data and opinoins is gathered from the community, make a new frontier.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
Seems quite alot of people are prepared to pay to play the same setup as the free to play server if multiple accounts are allowed.
If the frontier is remade well I am sure that would also help the population.
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
I would stay on a ToA server, I do think you should be able to unlock all Master Levels and all artifacts using an alterante currency, maybe make it Dragon Scales which then can be used to buy DF drops, SI dungeon drops, dragon drops and ToA stuff. Instead of having DF seals, SI dungeon currency, dragon scales and atlantean glass I would prefer only one alternate currency.
Making the stuff purchasable by copper, silver, gold and/or platinum would also be ok with me to get rid of alternate currencies altogether.
Bounty Points could be used to purchase respec stones, XP-scrolls (should be tradable if implemented in my opinion) and the patterns so that you can choose how your equipment looks (make Shades of Mist look nice).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
Maybe alternate between old and new frontier, make minor changes see how those work. After enough data and opinoins is gathered from the community, make a new frontier.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
Seems quite alot of people are prepared to pay to play the same setup as the free to play server if multiple accounts are allowed.
If the frontier is remade well I am sure that would also help the population.
However we have no idea what @John_Broadsword vision of a classic ruleset is, even if they went that route.
This is why we all try to inform Broadsword on our points of view :-)
All good points, I am curious though as to why the Catacombs/DR/DS/Laby expansions/campaigns would make you leave and not TOA. The PvE content (the exploits in Labyrinth were insane, but you could always just not go there) was great and I thought they added nice items for RvR, at least up until we started having crazy 127/127 stats.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
The reason I would leave if expansions after ToA was implemented is:
I prefered the race graphic models before Catacombs, I do not like the the classes added with Catacombs or after Catacombs. I do not like Champion Levels or Mythirians.
Classic + SI + Housing is what I would prefer but i would not leave if ToA was implemented on the new server.
@Mahvash How long since you've actively played the game?
Between not being updated on class changes and then concluding that classic is the solution there is a bit of a gap.
As an example, you mention your SB. Did you spec any MoS? They changed the stealth mechanics last patch, so if you don't have any MoS then you are running around as cannon fodder.
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
About 15 to 16 years, not sure when exactly i stopped playing on a regular base.
The MoS-Thing would explain a lot... i think i didnt spec that.. have to check...
DAOC for the elderly sounds great, loving that wording With a age of 53 i think it would fit to me.
And please dont feel offended by my opinions. If you like the game like it is i am very happy for you.
But i also see that many people, more than not, are on my trail. Just look at WOW, Classic rules everything right now.
There are only very few people who like the kind of Game DAOC-Live now is.
But there are many many that likes the DAOC for the elderly idea.
@Mahvash I am not offended, text isn't the best way to discuss.
What I mean is that "classic" already exists for the population that like this kind of game, which I'd estimate as 30% of the potential player base.
So like Shay keeps saying, the only benefit of BS running a classic server would be multi-boxing/bots which is a pretty niche market.
To be honest, i dont have the kind of insight to comment on that.
I believe it is more than 30% but then again, i am not in the topic that deep.
So, for now lets forget about " Classic ".
Give the child another name.
Call it " Start new in an environment where there are no overpowered gankers ".
SI-Ruleset, grinding like hell , some basic added QoL.
Advertise as the " Real and Original DAOC "
We all know that the different Classic-Emulators out there all have flaws... more or less.
I believe that would pay out very well for BS.
Or what else can be done to get rid of that Cancer-Like low-gankers which roam the RVR-Areas every single day.
These elements poison the game for the real gaming-community. ?????????
The BGs are a nice example for a try to make the game more " even "
Unfortunatelly the idea got compromised very quick with equiping the alts with everything the endgame gives.
In my times Thid and Molv were hours of fun every day... until the ganker-alts with TOA-Equip came up ....
How about creating a system were only evenly equiped chars can fight each other ?
Or areas which are restricted by Realm-Rank ?
Or even more easy, the Opt-In model like New World ?
What ever, but make the game playable for casuals again....
At the moment it is just a gank-fest.
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
Just need to find the proper balance to keep your more serious casuals and hardcore players. This wouldn't be much of an issue though if there were 3 zergs on, 1 in each realm during primetimes. Most of your casuals will join the zerg, most of your hardcore will join 8v8. Dragonslayer patch era seems like a good place to start for me, but I also wouldn't mind if they started it as classic/SI and gave us the next expansion every 6 months. Nostalgia will clearly bring in the most amount of players possible, then it's a matter of keeping them by adding the later expansions, in a new way, at scheduled dates.
Example would look like:
January 2021: Classic/SI/Housing server launch
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
However we have no idea what @John_Broadsword vision of a classic ruleset is, even if they went that route.
I have now spend about a week to read most of the post and topics in this forum.
The conclusion is very clear.
This game is hopelessly overloaded with tons of bullshit which nobody has a overview over and obviously nobody is able to balance out.
Thousands of different abilities and skills. /use on thousands of items ( which i have never used ), all of them somehow interact, all of them are being changed and tweaked constantly.
That is a dead dog. Bury it and let it rest in piece........
For a clean restart use the SI + housing rule-set.
Subs will be rocketing.
Win-Win for everyone...
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
Just need to find the proper balance to keep your more serious casuals and hardcore players. This wouldn't be much of an issue though if there were 3 zergs on, 1 in each realm during primetimes. Most of your casuals will join the zerg, most of your hardcore will join 8v8. Dragonslayer patch era seems like a good place to start for me, but I also wouldn't mind if they started it as classic/SI and gave us the next expansion every 6 months. Nostalgia will clearly bring in the most amount of players possible, then it's a matter of keeping them by adding the later expansions, in a new way, at scheduled dates.
Example would look like:
January 2021: Classic/SI/Housing server launch
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
However we have no idea what @John_Broadsword vision of a classic ruleset is, even if they went that route.
I have now spend about a week to read most of the post and topics in this forum.
The conclusion is very clear.
This game is hopelessly overloaded with tons of bullshit which nobody has a overview over and obviously nobody is able to balance out.
Thousands of different abilities and skills. /use on thousands of items ( which i have never used ), all of them somehow interact, all of them are being changed and tweaked constantly.
That is a dead dog. Bury it and let it rest in piece........
For a clean restart use the SI + housing rule-set.
Subs will be rocketing.
Win-Win for everyone...
Mahv
Ywain has evolved to be very competitive which deters casual players from the game. It's ironic that such a shift happened when the competitive playerbase was always smaller than the casual crowd. Consequently, and not unexpected, the population declined with each major addition. The primary exception is the EC patch which temporarily brought players in. However, the game is falsely marketed toward all players when in reality it's focused on competitive play. If BS wants a larger population, then they need to simplify gameplay. Alternatively, they could embrace the competitive nature of the game as it stands and market it accordingly. Include tournaments and reward cash prizes. That's what the game is setup for but doesn't take advantage of. This brings me back to a critical point I keep making: Ywain has an identity crisis.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
Just need to find the proper balance to keep your more serious casuals and hardcore players. This wouldn't be much of an issue though if there were 3 zergs on, 1 in each realm during primetimes. Most of your casuals will join the zerg, most of your hardcore will join 8v8. Dragonslayer patch era seems like a good place to start for me, but I also wouldn't mind if they started it as classic/SI and gave us the next expansion every 6 months. Nostalgia will clearly bring in the most amount of players possible, then it's a matter of keeping them by adding the later expansions, in a new way, at scheduled dates.
Example would look like:
January 2021: Classic/SI/Housing server launch
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
However we have no idea what @John_Broadsword vision of a classic ruleset is, even if they went that route.
I have now spend about a week to read most of the post and topics in this forum.
The conclusion is very clear.
This game is hopelessly overloaded with tons of bullshit which nobody has a overview over and obviously nobody is able to balance out.
Thousands of different abilities and skills. /use on thousands of items ( which i have never used ), all of them somehow interact, all of them are being changed and tweaked constantly.
That is a dead dog. Bury it and let it rest in piece........
For a clean restart use the SI + housing rule-set.
Subs will be rocketing.
Win-Win for everyone...
Mahv
Ywain has evolved to be very competitive which deters casual players from the game. It's ironic that such a shift happened when the competitive playerbase was always smaller than the casual crowd. Consequently, and not unexpected, the population declined with each major addition. The primary exception is the EC patch which temporarily brought players in. However, the game is falsely marketed toward all players when in reality it's focused on competitive play. If BS wants a larger population, then they need to simplify gameplay. Alternatively, they could embrace the competitive nature of the game as it stands and market it accordingly. Include tournaments and reward cash prizes. That's what the game is setup for but doesn't take advantage of. This brings me back to a critical point I keep making: Ywain has an identity crisis.
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
Just need to find the proper balance to keep your more serious casuals and hardcore players. This wouldn't be much of an issue though if there were 3 zergs on, 1 in each realm during primetimes. Most of your casuals will join the zerg, most of your hardcore will join 8v8. Dragonslayer patch era seems like a good place to start for me, but I also wouldn't mind if they started it as classic/SI and gave us the next expansion every 6 months. Nostalgia will clearly bring in the most amount of players possible, then it's a matter of keeping them by adding the later expansions, in a new way, at scheduled dates.
Example would look like:
January 2021: Classic/SI/Housing server launch
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
However we have no idea what @John_Broadsword vision of a classic ruleset is, even if they went that route.
I have now spend about a week to read most of the post and topics in this forum.
The conclusion is very clear.
This game is hopelessly overloaded with tons of bullshit which nobody has a overview over and obviously nobody is able to balance out.
Thousands of different abilities and skills. /use on thousands of items ( which i have never used ), all of them somehow interact, all of them are being changed and tweaked constantly.
That is a dead dog. Bury it and let it rest in piece........
For a clean restart use the SI + housing rule-set.
Subs will be rocketing.
Win-Win for everyone...
Mahv
All fair points, but having such a simple game with no new additions will lead to......boredom. Need to find the balance, which is why re-adding expansions after years, with simplifications of course, would be the best route in my opinion.
Post edited by Dale_Perf on
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
This additional comment on the Bonedancer class maybe to late for 1.127 but it may very well could be added later on.
Bonedancer has been under played for a while and we have the same issues as the necromancers did with their pet. This creates a unfair play style since the pets we have are basically half the class. In every aspect if the pets are gone or exploited by players then the class is about worthless. Therefore why many people do not play a bonedancer anymore.
There was an earlier post I did with improvements to the sub pets and other abilities that would make the bonedancer on par with the current state of casters.
This bonedancer change I'm currently posting about would get rid of the pets in a way. This discussion is based on Norse Necromancy, of which there was but it was more of a shamanistic way of talking to the dead and bringing back the dead to get info or help. Odinn and Freyja were some gods that could talk to the dead therefore some of the following are just based on this.
(All of these abilities are lvl 50 spells / abilities vrs. other lvl 50s with basic 26% resist)
-----BONE ARMY-----
- Odin allows you to bring back some of the powers for his greatest warriors and aides you in your conquests. (all melee damage is based off of Piety)
Jarls Lament - Invoke the warriors and leaders of the past and with their blessing be granted a 2h sword that also gives you the ABS and AF of a complete set of chain armor with an additional +750 hps. This 2h Sword (Scourge of the Living) will have basic caster stats as well as Melee TOAs. It will have a legendary proc, 35% energy debuff w/ 60 DD upon striking a foe.
This 2h sword will also give 2 melee styles: Revenge - anytime style doing 400 dmg and a back snare called Grave Strike - doing 500 dmg and 35% snare.
Scream of Dread - 700 cone radius in front of you that will fear any charmed/summoned/controlled pets for 20 sec. This can be used every 30 sec.
Protection of the Elders - PBAOE buff (20% mana cost + 30 mana per pulse) When an enemy gets within 200 radius of the bonedancer, 2 Undead Jarls will rise up and help the BD in killing its target. They both will be a basic lvl 50 NPC with sword/shield and use Polar RIft. They will last 20 sec until dead or the timer runs out, they can not be risen again for 30sec. If a stealther is present with in 200 radius, they will appear and attack the stealther.
Reach Beyond the Grave - 2s cast, 1875 range : snare the target for 5 sec at 70%, can recast every 20 sec
Shadow Step - 1000 range, instant, usable every 5min - Teleport to a target doing 1.5x Revenges damage stunning the target for 2sec. Stun does not create a immunity nor is it effected by an immunity.
------SUPPRESSION -----
-Freyja gives you a staff of life and death. as a WARD OF FREYJA you will be given the ABS / AF of Leather set and an additional 250hp. The staff, Fólkvangrof has basic caster stats with healer TOA bonuses.
Life Siphon -2.8s cast, 199 dd spirit - the BD is allowed to place a buff on a group member. Any damage done by this life tap will be transferred as HP at 80% to the buffed allie and 20% to the BD. If no grp member is buffed then 60% of the damage will be transferred to the bd.
Totem of Rebirth - 1500 range, 300 radius GTpbaoe, 3sec cast every 10min - Any allies that are with in this totems radius will be resurrected as a Skeleton at 75% hp/mana/endo for 10sec. After which they will return as normal at 25% hp/mana/endo with a 25% snare for 1min.
Freyja's Song - PBAOE pulse on the BD @20% initial cast with 20 mana per pulse. Any ally with in 500 radius of the BD, including the BD will be given a 200 hp heal every 2 sec.
Summon Draugr- 2000 range, 2.5sec cast, every 8 sec - Summon a Draugr (zombie) on the target. The Draugr only does 1 damage per swing and gives a 10% near sight on the target. Draugr's can not be killed nor CC'd. They will follow the target until they return to the ground in 5sec. after initially summoned. On melee characters, the Draugr will casuse a 25% chance to fumble.
Tears of Sorrow - THe BD will be able to set tears down (traps) on the ground, 5 out at anytime. These tears (traps) will have a normal radius of convoker traps and will snare any enemy walking over them by 80% for 3sec per tear. These tears ignore any immunity timers.
------- Darkness -------
As a disciple of Hel, you are giving the Staff of the Underworld. This staff has all basic caster stats and TOA caster bonuses.
Totem of Strife - instant, 1000 range, 250 radius (last 10sec) - all casting and melee speeds are reduced 30% while an enemy player is with in the totems pulse. This will effect 16 players max, pulse every 2sec. can re-cast every 1min.
Totem of Death Wind - instant, 1500 range, 300 radius (last 14 sec) - does 300 dd cold every 2 sec. Can recast every 30sec.
Void Surge - 2.8s cast, single dd , 209 dd with 35 % snare
Hel's Army - 1875 range, 3sec cast, every 10sec - cast a skull to an enemy cursing the ground they stand on. Any enemy including the target that travels thru this 200 radius patch will have a lvl 50 skeleton warrior attack them and follow them for 1min or until dead.
Reflect Hate - 2.5sec cast every 3min, last 6 sec. - cast a shield n a target that reflects 50% of the magic damage done back to the caster.
Shroud of Darkness - Randomly teleport 1000 units away in any direction. Instant, every 2min.
----- NEW RR 5 ability - Valsinni (Road of the Slain) - Transform into a skeleton with 75% chance to resist CC. If you run over a dead players body, you will unleash a lvl 45 skeleton w/ a 2h axe doing Havoc style. You can have 6 skeletons up at a time. If they are not killed, they will last 30sec. and attack any enemy as any aggressive NPC would.
Asatruar - Ronnie 10 "
Corpseshovel - Oldstanky - Nogvi
The reason people hate to PvP is they are afraid of failure
We know there's a global pandemic going on, and production issues are global in all industries. Is there a new rough ETA for this patch as we roll into mid April?
Comments
Stream #1, subs. You want to keep a sub, but it has to offer 100% peace of mind. I don't want to make a single Mythril shop purchase if I sub.
Stream #2, pay per use type. accessing the game is "free", however to get what the subs get, you need to go through the mythril shop.
Basically, you would want stream #2 to spend 15$/month if that player is playing as much as the average subbed account player.
For hardcore players, sub will for sure be more enticing than pay per use. However, players that don't have a lot of time and for whom sustaining a sub doesn't make sense (even if it's "only" 15$, throwing 15$ dollars in the garbage is still stupid).
Example, for trucks Michelin offers a "rental" service for tires. You pay a monthly fee, and all the tires you need for your float of trucks are taken care of. Every tire has a chip that monitors the wear on the tires and once it reaches a certain point, Michelin replaces them. This makes sense when you have a lot of trucks and updating tires would cost millions of dollars at once, but it's less attractive to a smaller business that only has 1-2 trucks.
A similar approach should be taken by BS regarding their EC.
But again, if I sub, I do not want to pay a single $ in the mythril store and if I choose "EC", I don't want a cloak token to cost 10 bucks, it needs to be balanced.
I realize that Inarus' Bounty, Sudari's Bounty, and Eliana's Bounty quests are the only three quests that are repeatable once a week for bounty points. However, the level 30 and 40 glass/ bounty point quests are supposed to be repeatable as many times as you like for gold and XP after you do them once for bounty points. The level 30 ones can only be repeated in some realms (Mid and Hib on Ywain) and not others (Alb Ywain, Hib Gaheris).
For Albion, Ywain players it's annoying, but not game breaking because you can just head to Molvik.
Not so on Gaheris. The only viable way way to get from 35/36 to 40 right now on many classes is to grind random mobs. Some classes can't complete the dungeon quests solo, and you will be soloing in this level range on Gaheris. Fixing the level 30 quests so that you can repeat them for gold and XP like you used to be able to when they were glass quests (and like you can do currently in most realms on Ywain) would help a lot with this problem.
If this quest series can't be fixed, or would be too hard to fix, I highly recommend opening up task dungeons again on Gaheris. Or opening up Molvik for that matter. Either would work.
Get the mez off first. Both sides interrupted, cast first. Get stun off before their mez. Break points are significant. 3.0 373-374 and 2.8 391 v 392 are both 10% faster. Going out on a limb that 10% cast speed in template is a must for your casters.
Even if they just expand the number of mobs who "drop" BP's to all quest mobs (even if you didn't have the quest), that might re-vitalize old content.
This is a good idea actually. You've got people who will sit around and solo, but they'll also "why not" take out that R2 just farming. I like the idea of doing supply quests in a loop around the Hlid/Surs/DDB keeps so if small mans are hunting solos, they'd check ruins, maize, and that keep (and possibly both docks as well). Risk vs reward is out of balance currently. You should be able to do a few runs (if saavy) without getting ganked. Now, especially if its slow out, you're just chum.
Don't confuse "getting mezz or stun off first" with breakpoints - breakpoints increase the speed of a spell by tenths or hundredths of a second - the odds that that is going to be the deciding factor over range, quickness of targeting, reflexes (executing spell), resists, interrupts, etc. is less than minimal. Not to mention the fact that server/client latency pretty much glosses over small differences like this, and breakpoints are really ONLY impactful when casting the same spell multiples times in a row.
Don't compare 10% casting speed with the difference between a 374 and 392 breakpoint, for example. That's a grape and a watermelon - casting speed has a very tangible difference in casting - dex after 350ish does not.
No one wants your opinion on game mechanics. You could run Aug Dex 7 on a toon or you could run MoC 4 or have an extra level (or two) of Purge - I guarantee you the extra level of an active ability is going to win far more fights. That's not to mention factoring in dex debuffs.
You could do a blind test on people's own characters and have them guess how much dex they're running - I guarantee many people wouldn't notice the difference.
I dont know what is stupid about breakpoints. How would you implement it? same cast time for everyone? No dependence on dex?
It depends on what you do, for some classes/situations high dex is quite important, where moc is maybe not.
For example play a healer. You will want high dex, if you try to heal someone who has an assist train on hisself.
Having high dex can be decisive for getting out one more spell. A healer can heal 1000hps+ with one spell.
A bomb can make 1200+ dmg with one spell (with crit maybe more). If this is not important, then i dont know.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Failure to state facts correctly leads us unable to argue this point. Again, the cast speed difference for a 2.8 391 vs 392 dex and 3.0 speed 373 374 dex is 10% faster. It's a bit more than a few hundreths of a second. A tenth of a second for a spell that takes 1 second to cast is very significant given player reaction times.
Can you visibly see the difference? Well I was a classicly trained musician as a kid, so yeah, the difference is glaring for me, but maybe not everyone can tell you if something is 1.0 second or 1.1 second to cast. That's a straw man argument.
So, if you look at Simon's raw data, for a 2.5 sec spell (one people argue about staying at 362 or going to 398 break point.
2.5 spd breakpoints
362 dex = 1.13 (113.0)
398 dex = 1.09 (108.8)
415 dex = 1.06 (105.9)
So, to spend 36 more dex you get a 0.04 sec (4 hundreth of a sec).
What Enk is saying is that hitting 398 on some classes is super easy, take a saracen cab. Takes like 115 dex in template and Aug dex 2-3. That's a no brainer.
However, for let's say a mauler to get 398, you need to pick the highest dex class, have a 127 template (sacrificing a bunch of toys in the process), put all your starting points in dex AND get Aug dex 5-6 on top.
Do you think that investment is worth it for 0.04 sec off cast speed?
And that 0.04 sec is only really true for cc, because if you only think about getting rupted mid cast, your spell will go through if you are past 50% of the cast. This means that the 0.04 sec is actually a 0.02 sec advantage.
Breakpoints are OK and should be met when it is easy. If you need to sacrifice a bunch of active toys/abilities to get to a really high dex breakpoint, you are gimping yourself.
@Kroko Getting moc5 on a healer over a really high amount of dex (higher than the standard 374 breakpoint) is absolutely worth it, compared to having the abilitiy to cast one more heal spell out of every 25 heals
Example, take a Aug healer (40 aug 36 mend), his major is on a 2.6 while his greater is a 2.2 sec cast.
Going from 373 to 374 will see approx 5% faster cast speed on the 2.2 sec greater. That's 5 more spells out of 100 spells, so 1 more heal every 20 heals. If you can pump 20 heals into someone while not being interrupted, you are fighting idiots.
Same goes for the 2.6 sec cast, you will get an approx 9% cast speed improvement going from 373 to 374. So it's one more heal every 10ish heals. That seems more appropriate and seems to be an acceptable treshold.
I probably took the worst example because the last breakpoint for the 2.2 and 2.6 sec spells is 374, but you get the point.
Otherwise it depends on your playstyle which RAs to choose. But claiming active RAs are always better than passive RAs is not correct imo.
@Shoke I mentioned the 2.8 and 3.0 breakpoints because they are the most necessary and both give over a 10% difference. (Even the 2.6 is similar as you mentioned). YOU THINK FINDING THE ONE BREAKPOINT THAT's nearly meaningless proves your point? Get back to me when you are willing to talk about aoe mez break point cast differences or the most frequent DPS cast breakpoints. Again, Greater than 10% to cast speed is not "just a hundredth" of a second, it's larger than the difference in reaction times between users. K. TY.
If you feel like getting Aug Dex 7 to get a 0.02-0.05 faster cast time instead of getting higher moc or purge good for you.
You must be quite the daoc player to see a huge benefit from casting 0.04 seconds faster
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
As i have read in the forum repossession of houses will be re-introduced. This is in its way fine, some landmarks can be freed up for others to buy the land and build a house.
I do however have a few suggestions to you now you are changing stuff regarding to the housing zones. Some post I have read you even suggest that you develop a level 5 house, which would be very nice to see and use.
1) In the current level four houses, the number of merchants you can have is very limited. It is not possible to have a teleporter, smith, grandmaster merchant, taxidermist merchant, alchemist and spell crafting merchant in the same house. It would be nice if you could optimize the number of slots in the level four houses, or implement it with your new level 5 houses. If a player has more than 1 or 2 crafting lines and wish to do his or her crafting inside own house or guild house, the player has to move from house to house, or change merchants all the time. It would therefore be preferable to have access to more merchants in the big houses.
2) Consignment merchants amount of money held. It can be very annoying when a player week after week search consignment merchants in houses for a special item, just to find out that the player merchant on a specific house is filled up with money. Typically, it is due to the fact that people have a break from the game or forget to empty their house merchant. I therefore suggest that you increase the amount of money that the house merchant can hold so that other players can benefit from the items set for sale. It is a big problem on the Gaheris server, where for example, Apocalypse shields are for sale (10 pcs) by the same player but this player is not currently playing so he cannot empty his merchant for money.
3) Repossession of guild houses. It is not to my knowledge that guild houses can be repossessed?. To free up good space and attractive towns I find it reasonable that if nobody from a guild has been online for a period of time ex. 6 months then the house could be removed, after the same rules as personal houses, to a guild master account. If more than one guild master account, the money for the house could be put into the bank account of that guild instead.
4) Crafting.
It is easier and quieter to craft in housing than in the capital cities. What is the reason for always having a crafting bonus in the capital cities, with further distance to merchants, more ppl spamming in the chat and asking for stuff?
It would be nice to have the same bonus in housing as in the capital cities if possible.
Best regards
Vonwar
GM of Danish Huscarls Ywain & Gaheris.
New user Journey quest:
In every town for each level series, there are two quests that ask you to go to the battlegrounds. Battlegrounds does NOT exist on the Gaheris server, unfortunately the are not implemented apart from Cathal Valley. It would be nice if you could implement them for several reasons.
1) Players could do the quests on new user journey, not having to skip 2 quests in each town.
2) Players could try out mini RVR like on Ywain if you put monsters of an equal level into the center keeps of the battlegrounds.
LVL 50 quests in the frontier:
I see from the recent newsletter text that the weekly quests no longer will be offered to Gaheris players. That is fine, when we can not complete them anyway.
Apart from that there is a series of quests in the Frontiers which we can not make or complete. I will list them below:
1) Supplies quest. There is no rubble nor boxes to be found in ruined areas.
2) Doppelgangers quest. There are no Doppelgangers to be found in the frontier on Gaheris.
Towers:
It could be nice for everybody playing solo, duo or small group to be able to take towers at a reduced amount of dreaded seals. Like on Ywain there used to be towers on Gaheris for a period between two patches. They were never used for anything but could be good for small bands of players or ppl of lvl 45+ to train on before they start taking keeps.
Catacombs:
It would be nice to get back Catacombs. I can not see any reason why Catacombs should be taken away from the game just because of the story line of Dragons revenge. If so, we are many that hope for catacombs to be reintroduced so ppl have extra zones to farm for money xp and clxp. It would be nice to keep the dragons revenge campaign aswell. Especially for Gaheris players the Catacombs zone was important because of the Sentient shield with 10% extra pve. Blocking. This item now can not be farmed, it can not be bought from merchants and it can not be acquired through the Darkspire instant cave.
Best regards
Vonwar
GM of Danish Huscarls of Ywain and Gaheris.
I always thought it was because the capital was supposed to be where people would always be and where you could get answers to some questions/look for someone to assist with crafting.
Otherwise no one would go there anymore.
Or they dont want the "looking for SC" spam in frontiers.
I find it anoying that crafting speed in frontiers is slower. I would rather craft in frontiers being able to read the chat and react if sth interesting happens.
In capital cities you cant do anything but crafting, which is pretty boring.
i started DAOC 18 years ago and stopped after TOA destroyed Gamebalance.
Dont bet me wrong, TOA as a addon on is extremely nice to me. I love the TOA areas and love the feeling of being in the water. But RVR-wise the TOA-items and abilities killed the game.
Now i found that there is a new start and tested it for about a week, obvioulsy the free-version.
Long story short.... loving it.
Love the feeling, love to see my old chars still around.
Never the less..... RVR is the same bullshit like 15 years ago.
Stun or Mezz, bumm bumm, dead within 2 seconds....( both caster and melee can do that )
No way to avoid because everyone has more speed than my Skald.
No way to get away because everyone has several Mezzbrakes and Stun.Mezz and Root -abilities.
In one word RVR is still meaningless.
For that reason i will obviously not upgrade to a sub.
I will play the game as i love it and dont care about the 50 times i get ganked and killed in 2 sec per day.
But the hopes are stil up.
There was an article about DAOC-Classic.
That would be heaven.
No TOA-Boni, no BS-Classes like Vamp, Mauler, Heretic.... etc..
In General the smaller the possible gap between normal gear and abilites to top-tier gear and abilities the more people will enjoy and will also be willing to pay for it...
Nobody want to pay for getting killed in 2 seconds....
Just my 2 cents. CU in the game
Always happy to spend my RP.
Mahv
It's definitely faster now than it was. You have to get used to the speed. It is possible.
Maybe try to find a grp and don't run solo.
And I don't get how you won't get blapped on classic? You'll just sit mezzed longer than now.
No, i will never run in a group. Stupid ganking....better wait for Classic.
no problem with waiting. Found all my Chars in the meanwhile means plenty of stuff to do.
Mine, Inf, Pala, Merc, Ranger, Hero, etc..... all need to get 50
Out of a feeled 1000 times i got jumped on i got away exactly 0 times. For every single getaway-tool there is another one to catch me again... After the first 100 times of getting killed in 2 seconds i just stood still, prepared to push the release button and get myself a drink or some soul-food.
But i am not angry, it is like it is. Seems somebody think that this is good... great, go for it.
But i for myself will wait for classic to pay for the game again. The actual-live-server is not worth spending any money.
Skald-Speed also seems not to be so special anymore... everybody has it, most are even faster...
I will stop playing the Skald as the main reason i started with it is not there anymore.
Mahv
The only speed in the game faster than mount + saddle, Skald, Bard, and Minstrel is the Bard's Loyalty Cloak /use.
Note: Enchanters, Healers, and Sorcerers also get the same speed as Skalds.
If you're getting killed in two seconds, then you likely need a new template. Skalds have plenty of escape tools. It just takes practice to use them efficiently.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Yeah, you are probably right.
But even if i can stand 1 more pbae or life leech that means i stand 3 seconds.... still the same bullshit..
3 or 4 times even my RR7 SB got jumped while in stealth and died in 2 seconds.... how can this happen ?
Didnt even have the time to push Purge and Vanish....very funny gameplay nowadays...
So, still no reason to pay for that game.
Hopefully Classic will come very soon.....
But if not... New World will start in April.
Mahv
do you have an uptodate template?
Between not being updated on class changes and then concluding that classic is the solution there is a bit of a gap.
As an example, you mention your SB. Did you spec any MoS? They changed the stealth mechanics last patch, so if you don't have any MoS then you are running around as cannon fodder.
Classic is simple, it's good for the elderly players of daoc. You have 3 abilities to memorize, the require reaction time is super slow. The bad players will sometimes win just because there are less abilities, and therefore less gap between good and bad players.
There is some nice appeal to this. However, this simplicity is also why people get bored with classic super fast.
I don't think classic is inherently boring but I can completely see why coming from Ywain. Best patch setting, imo is 1.9X. The gap isn't too large between casuals and no lifers at that setting but still "fast" enough for the ADD folks who want to be competitive. Problem right now is Ywain is designed for hardcore gamers but does nothing to promote the game in that direction. Hence why the population is horrid. They either need to strike a balance or start promoting the game for what it is.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Just need to find the proper balance to keep your more serious casuals and hardcore players. This wouldn't be much of an issue though if there were 3 zergs on, 1 in each realm during primetimes. Most of your casuals will join the zerg, most of your hardcore will join 8v8. Dragonslayer patch era seems like a good place to start for me, but I also wouldn't mind if they started it as classic/SI and gave us the next expansion every 6 months. Nostalgia will clearly bring in the most amount of players possible, then it's a matter of keeping them by adding the later expansions, in a new way, at scheduled dates.
Example would look like:
January 2021: Classic/SI/Housing server launch
June 2021: ToA added. Raids simplified to just kill 10 toa bosses to unlock your master levels, which should be a 2fg encounter IMO. Artifacts added with their current system (kill mob for instant lvl 10, or buy w/ bps and lvl it).
January 2022: Catacombs
June 2022: Darkness Rising, CL15 unlock. Change how CL's are gained, make them more like ML raids in DF. Can have CL1-5 credit on high lords, 6-10 on princess/princes, 11-15 on beliathan/legion. Something of the sort.
January 2023: Dragonslayer campaign
January 2024: Labyrinth drop
I really wouldn't add too much after that, the current gear situation is really lame (most templates are copy/paste of the same OP items then fill with toys) and the new gear creep is insane. If the game makes it to 2024, should just be building a new frontier or exploring things like Realm Invasion/Mordred.
But with no population there is no gap between players b/c there are no players to have a consistent gap. So first and foremost it needs to be a popular era that will draw enough people and be different enough from the other place to not seem just like a paid version of a free product.
However we have no idea what @John_Broadsword vision of a classic ruleset is, even if they went that route.
I would stay on a ToA server, I do think you should be able to unlock all Master Levels and all artifacts using an alterante currency, maybe make it Dragon Scales which then can be used to buy DF drops, SI dungeon drops, dragon drops and ToA stuff. Instead of having DF seals, SI dungeon currency, dragon scales and atlantean glass I would prefer only one alternate currency.
Making the stuff purchasable by copper, silver, gold and/or platinum would also be ok with me to get rid of alternate currencies altogether.
Bounty Points could be used to purchase respec stones, XP-scrolls (should be tradable if implemented in my opinion) and the patterns so that you can choose how your equipment looks (make Shades of Mist look nice).
I would leave when any of this was implemented
Maybe alternate between old and new frontier, make minor changes see how those work. After enough data and opinoins is gathered from the community, make a new frontier.
Seems quite alot of people are prepared to pay to play the same setup as the free to play server if multiple accounts are allowed.
If the frontier is remade well I am sure that would also help the population.
This is why we all try to inform Broadsword on our points of view :-)
All good points, I am curious though as to why the Catacombs/DR/DS/Laby expansions/campaigns would make you leave and not TOA. The PvE content (the exploits in Labyrinth were insane, but you could always just not go there) was great and I thought they added nice items for RvR, at least up until we started having crazy 127/127 stats.
I prefered the race graphic models before Catacombs, I do not like the the classes added with Catacombs or after Catacombs. I do not like Champion Levels or Mythirians.
Classic + SI + Housing is what I would prefer but i would not leave if ToA was implemented on the new server.
no, dont have.
Just the stuff they throw at you in the Kings room.
Mahv
About 15 to 16 years, not sure when exactly i stopped playing on a regular base.
The MoS-Thing would explain a lot... i think i didnt spec that.. have to check...
DAOC for the elderly sounds great, loving that wording
And please dont feel offended by my opinions. If you like the game like it is i am very happy for you.
But i also see that many people, more than not, are on my trail. Just look at WOW, Classic rules everything right now.
There are only very few people who like the kind of Game DAOC-Live now is.
But there are many many that likes the DAOC for the elderly idea.
Mahv
What I mean is that "classic" already exists for the population that like this kind of game, which I'd estimate as 30% of the potential player base.
So like Shay keeps saying, the only benefit of BS running a classic server would be multi-boxing/bots which is a pretty niche market.
To be honest, i dont have the kind of insight to comment on that.
I believe it is more than 30% but then again, i am not in the topic that deep.
So, for now lets forget about " Classic ".
Give the child another name.
Call it " Start new in an environment where there are no overpowered gankers ".
SI-Ruleset, grinding like hell
Advertise as the " Real and Original DAOC "
We all know that the different Classic-Emulators out there all have flaws... more or less.
I believe that would pay out very well for BS.
Or what else can be done to get rid of that Cancer-Like low-gankers which roam the RVR-Areas every single day.
These elements poison the game for the real gaming-community. ?????????
The BGs are a nice example for a try to make the game more " even "
Unfortunatelly the idea got compromised very quick with equiping the alts with everything the endgame gives.
In my times Thid and Molv were hours of fun every day... until the ganker-alts with TOA-Equip came up ....
How about creating a system were only evenly equiped chars can fight each other ?
Or areas which are restricted by Realm-Rank ?
Or even more easy, the Opt-In model like New World ?
What ever, but make the game playable for casuals again....
At the moment it is just a gank-fest.
Mahv
I have now spend about a week to read most of the post and topics in this forum.
The conclusion is very clear.
This game is hopelessly overloaded with tons of bullshit which nobody has a overview over and obviously nobody is able to balance out.
Thousands of different abilities and skills. /use on thousands of items ( which i have never used ), all of them somehow interact, all of them are being changed and tweaked constantly.
That is a dead dog. Bury it and let it rest in piece........
For a clean restart use the SI + housing rule-set.
Subs will be rocketing.
Win-Win for everyone...
Mahv
Ywain has evolved to be very competitive which deters casual players from the game. It's ironic that such a shift happened when the competitive playerbase was always smaller than the casual crowd. Consequently, and not unexpected, the population declined with each major addition. The primary exception is the EC patch which temporarily brought players in. However, the game is falsely marketed toward all players when in reality it's focused on competitive play. If BS wants a larger population, then they need to simplify gameplay. Alternatively, they could embrace the competitive nature of the game as it stands and market it accordingly. Include tournaments and reward cash prizes. That's what the game is setup for but doesn't take advantage of. This brings me back to a critical point I keep making: Ywain has an identity crisis.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Couldnt agree more.
Mahv
All fair points, but having such a simple game with no new additions will lead to......boredom. Need to find the balance, which is why re-adding expansions after years, with simplifications of course, would be the best route in my opinion.
Bonedancer has been under played for a while and we have the same issues as the necromancers did with their pet. This creates a unfair play style since the pets we have are basically half the class. In every aspect if the pets are gone or exploited by players then the class is about worthless. Therefore why many people do not play a bonedancer anymore.
There was an earlier post I did with improvements to the sub pets and other abilities that would make the bonedancer on par with the current state of casters.
This bonedancer change I'm currently posting about would get rid of the pets in a way. This discussion is based on Norse Necromancy, of which there was but it was more of a shamanistic way of talking to the dead and bringing back the dead to get info or help. Odinn and Freyja were some gods that could talk to the dead therefore some of the following are just based on this.
(All of these abilities are lvl 50 spells / abilities vrs. other lvl 50s with basic 26% resist)
-----BONE ARMY-----
- Odin allows you to bring back some of the powers for his greatest warriors and aides you in your conquests. (all melee damage is based off of Piety)
Jarls Lament - Invoke the warriors and leaders of the past and with their blessing be granted a 2h sword that also gives you the ABS and AF of a complete set of chain armor with an additional +750 hps. This 2h Sword (Scourge of the Living) will have basic caster stats as well as Melee TOAs. It will have a legendary proc, 35% energy debuff w/ 60 DD upon striking a foe.
This 2h sword will also give 2 melee styles: Revenge - anytime style doing 400 dmg and a back snare called Grave Strike - doing 500 dmg and 35% snare.
Scream of Dread - 700 cone radius in front of you that will fear any charmed/summoned/controlled pets for 20 sec. This can be used every 30 sec.
Protection of the Elders - PBAOE buff (20% mana cost + 30 mana per pulse) When an enemy gets within 200 radius of the bonedancer, 2 Undead Jarls will rise up and help the BD in killing its target. They both will be a basic lvl 50 NPC with sword/shield and use Polar RIft. They will last 20 sec until dead or the timer runs out, they can not be risen again for 30sec. If a stealther is present with in 200 radius, they will appear and attack the stealther.
Reach Beyond the Grave - 2s cast, 1875 range : snare the target for 5 sec at 70%, can recast every 20 sec
Shadow Step - 1000 range, instant, usable every 5min - Teleport to a target doing 1.5x Revenges damage stunning the target for 2sec. Stun does not create a immunity nor is it effected by an immunity.
------SUPPRESSION -----
-Freyja gives you a staff of life and death. as a WARD OF FREYJA you will be given the ABS / AF of Leather set and an additional 250hp. The staff, Fólkvangrof has basic caster stats with healer TOA bonuses.
Life Siphon -2.8s cast, 199 dd spirit - the BD is allowed to place a buff on a group member. Any damage done by this life tap will be transferred as HP at 80% to the buffed allie and 20% to the BD. If no grp member is buffed then 60% of the damage will be transferred to the bd.
Totem of Rebirth - 1500 range, 300 radius GTpbaoe, 3sec cast every 10min - Any allies that are with in this totems radius will be resurrected as a Skeleton at 75% hp/mana/endo for 10sec. After which they will return as normal at 25% hp/mana/endo with a 25% snare for 1min.
Freyja's Song - PBAOE pulse on the BD @20% initial cast with 20 mana per pulse. Any ally with in 500 radius of the BD, including the BD will be given a 200 hp heal every 2 sec.
Summon Draugr- 2000 range, 2.5sec cast, every 8 sec - Summon a Draugr (zombie) on the target. The Draugr only does 1 damage per swing and gives a 10% near sight on the target. Draugr's can not be killed nor CC'd. They will follow the target until they return to the ground in 5sec. after initially summoned. On melee characters, the Draugr will casuse a 25% chance to fumble.
Tears of Sorrow - THe BD will be able to set tears down (traps) on the ground, 5 out at anytime. These tears (traps) will have a normal radius of convoker traps and will snare any enemy walking over them by 80% for 3sec per tear. These tears ignore any immunity timers.
------- Darkness -------
As a disciple of Hel, you are giving the Staff of the Underworld. This staff has all basic caster stats and TOA caster bonuses.
Totem of Strife - instant, 1000 range, 250 radius (last 10sec) - all casting and melee speeds are reduced 30% while an enemy player is with in the totems pulse. This will effect 16 players max, pulse every 2sec. can re-cast every 1min.
Totem of Death Wind - instant, 1500 range, 300 radius (last 14 sec) - does 300 dd cold every 2 sec. Can recast every 30sec.
Void Surge - 2.8s cast, single dd , 209 dd with 35 % snare
Hel's Army - 1875 range, 3sec cast, every 10sec - cast a skull to an enemy cursing the ground they stand on. Any enemy including the target that travels thru this 200 radius patch will have a lvl 50 skeleton warrior attack them and follow them for 1min or until dead.
Reflect Hate - 2.5sec cast every 3min, last 6 sec. - cast a shield n a target that reflects 50% of the magic damage done back to the caster.
Shroud of Darkness - Randomly teleport 1000 units away in any direction. Instant, every 2min.
----- NEW RR 5 ability - Valsinni (Road of the Slain) - Transform into a skeleton with 75% chance to resist CC. If you run over a dead players body, you will unleash a lvl 45 skeleton w/ a 2h axe doing Havoc style. You can have 6 skeletons up at a time. If they are not killed, they will last 30sec. and attack any enemy as any aggressive NPC would.
Corpseshovel - Oldstanky - Nogvi
The reason people hate to PvP is they are afraid of failure
@John_Broadsword