Is anyone familiar with how hard it is to makes changes to Coding for daoc?
So i see a lot of complaining about how slow Broadsword is to make bug fixes and updates. We know the staff is very small but how hard is it to work with the old daoc code? It has to be a pain in the ass.
With that said I figure there are alot of people that know coding in the daoc community. Why cant BS leverage the community for assistance with helping with writing code?
With that said I figure there are alot of people that know coding in the daoc community. Why cant BS leverage the community for assistance with helping with writing code?
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But I totally agree they should leverage the community as there dev speed is just so very slow (and the community probably has a lot of people that can help)
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
When it comes down to it it may be legal restriction that is the most limiting.
It would take all of ~30 minutes a day to just make a post on these forums explaining what they're working on that day, what changes they have future plans for (and which aren't yet set in stone), explaining the reasoning they have behind the changes and additions they make, explain why they think the direction they're taking is better than another option offered by the community, ect. So much drama and hand wringing could be avoided, community discussion could be driven into more realistic, constructive directions if we understood BS's thought process behind specific changes and knew what issues BS was taking a hard-line stance on and what issues they were more open to feedback on. BS may not have to feel like they're being driven on a wild goose chase if they would get feedback before they started significant work on an update, rather than just dropping changes unannounced then being shocked when they're poorly received. More people may remain subscribed if they feel that their feedback is actually being read and considered rather than BS going months without any response other than saying that they're still having talks behind closed doors.
Simple but regular communication like this seems like it would be a much more realistic and productive use of their time than trying to figure out what portions of the code they could safely and legally open up to the public (there could very well be third party middle-ware involved that they couldn't release even if they wanted to).
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
As for communication, I think it's beating on a dead horse. It has been the #1 unanimous complaint for the last 4 years, and their reply was "let's do grab bags again". Grab Bags are cool and all, but generally speaking they answer questions about little details of the game that if that person went on discord they'd have the answer within 15 seconds...
It has been mentionned that the next step is fixing EC (5 months after the original release) and then working on a new server.
As to what they plan on fixing in 1.127 and what their plan is for the server, someone can only hope they'd tell us a bit about it.
Surprise!
Shoke, yes, people might have the answer in Discord, but not everyone uses Discord and we can't act like they do. Questions in the Grab Bag are questions people enter, genuine questions genuine players ask (outside of the special edition Grab Bags). Also EC has been out (live) 2 months, not 5, and we said changes based on feedback would follow EC, which it is.
Between these forums, Facebook, Twitter, discord, and ingame, we communicate with players on literally a daily basis. The Herald and newsletter reaches more people with game and community updates. Just because we may not talk with you today, doesn't mean we're not talking to anyone, this isn't the case. The type of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible.
Broadsword Online Games
There has been 0 communication pertaining to the state of the game. All we hear is you guys are working, listening to feedback, while most of the community has already given the feedback that new PBAE is terrible for action, it took many weeks just to bring back population bonuses people have been screaming for since they were taken away.
Sure, you guys, or just you, are communicating with players on a daily basis. Helping players with a bug or tech problem with one of the discord admins or yourself. DAoC is on so many different platforms, I imagine it's making it hard to send streamlined communication. I think the community would like to see regular bug fixes (even the smallest ones) posted to hot fixes on the website, @John_Broadsword plans this year for DAoC, and communication on the state of the game.
If this god-awful PBAE is what @John_Broadsword intended he should come out and say it. Many, many paying customers have complained about this and there has been silence on the issue. @Carol_Broadsword herself started a discussion in discord on why we think certain realms PBAE setup is better, which is great, but leads us to believe BS doesn't understand their own game. If you're going to remove it, just remove it. There was a knee-jerk reaction to the Warlock PBAE, then we suddenly returned population bonuses as well, so just saying changes take time and be patient is compounding the issue.
Radio silence on the true issues plaguing this game. Even coming out and just saying we understand there is huge population disparity since EC launch, we are working to help alleviate this. Have any suggestions? Submit feedback! Admitting the issues with the game instead of seemingly ignoring them would go a long way with one of the most loyal playerbases in MMO's. Instead the interaction with @John_Broadsword that sticks with me is him telling us he doesn't need to explain the changes he makes to his paying customers.
It wasn't the first or only time or place, either.
Also don't forget you can keep an eye on bugs reported, updated, and addressed on the bug tracker here: https://trello.com/b/4AHyZxVl/dark-age-of-camelot-bug-tracker
Broadsword Online Games
You should probably decide on a primary mode of communication for your players instead of spreading yourself out all over the place. A monthly podcast discussing state of the game and future direction would be a step in the right direction....oh wait.
https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/knight-podcasts
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Whether or not I took it wrong does not change the perception of the conversation. And it's not the best point to make, that you often have discussions about how the player base feels, thinks, and why they do so, considering the changes that the majority of the community hate that are still in game. If you're having these discussions and making progress why are we still on the downslope of population? It's been this way for years after all these discussions.
I agree, a dev monthly podcast would be amazing with certain subjects of the game. So for example, discuss class balance, discuss content (PvE/RvR), discuss classic server, discuss future plans and idea's etc.
Right now, all we know is there is a few fixes to EC and a couple of changes here and there and that's it. There just doesn't seem to be a plan in place on what the future is for DAoC but short term solutions.
What I meant is that the 1.127 patch is scheduled for March, so let's assume a March 30 patch day. Considering EC launched Nov-22, it would be 4 months (sorry I calculated that wrong). You made some quick fixes in the following days of 1.126 launch, but it feels like the remaining changes will happen in 1.127. So yeah, that's what I meant with my 5 months (should have said 4).
About the Grab Bags, I think they serve a purpose, for exactly the reason you mentionned. But aside from daily communications in discord, where you take our questions/comments and everything and communicate them back to the dev side of things, the communication isn't necessarily coming the other way. You are extremely available and helpful, don't get me wrong, but larger vision topics are usually dropped at the same time as a patch, whereas a little poking to the playerbase would be great.
Again, the herald posts are usually basically patch notes. The decision has been taken when you post them. Newsletter offer a very high level idea of what's coming up, but again I never saw in any newsletter a topic about PBAE changes and why you think it's important to bring DAoC back to essentially only keep/siege fights.
I would find it helpful if you gave some reasons for major changes you do.
For example pbae, underpop bonus, assassin changes, ....
You could write 1 line in patch notes for example.
Otherwise no one knows sometimes why you did it.
You say it's not feasible, but I feel your recent discussion prompt about PBAOE on discord shows just how easy and constructive this sort of communication could be. Put it somewhere more visible and conductive to extended discussion than a quickly buried discord conversation (such as your official forums) and get the team to make that sort of discussion prompt before the change is pushed to live (in addition to offering a short explanation on why the change is being considered in the first place). That's all that's being asked for. Next day post a similar 1-3 sentence prompt relating to the the assassin changes planned. Over the next few days do the same about some about the various EC restrictions and why you feel those particular policies are required/beneficial. And so on and so forth.
Doesn't even have to be every day, as long as it's regular, reliable communication about the team's plans for the game that go beyond vague statements like "tweaks are still under discussion" after 2 months of no communication about the issue. If they're unsure of specifics then they can just just tell us what options are being considered so we at least know what they're thinking. I honestly don't see why it wouldn't be feasible to get the rest of the team to, once a day, every two days, or whatever time period you think is reasonable, make a short thread saying "we're considering change X. We feel X will solve problem Y. Post your feedback about both perceived problem Y and planned solution X in this thread and we'll respond to the more important concerns/points raised over the next few days."
not heard but they should do something. Its practically free outside of the hosting platform to do this and yes maybe its Not in the job description but guess what..maybe that is what is needed to move this great game along.
If you read through this thread that is not the issue.
This is literally what everyone's talking about I feel. They've been doing it weekly forever and have some frankly amazing communication coming from it. And more importantly community goodwill.
We don't care if things get changed, we just want to "feel" involved and invested in the game. Heck, I'd break my own vow of not subscribing until the new server comes out if a weekly blog (good AND bad weekly event discussion, where the player base can comment/give ideas/rant) came out on the forum. (not discord where it's buried)
Is it necessarily fair for you guys to have to listen to angry rants every time you talk about anything? Hell no, but I guarantee it'll make you more money. Hire some pour soul to moderate it if you have to, some guy from India can probably do it for $5/week lol. My personal subscription can be earmarked for this
Post the blog Friday, moderate it Sunday night, read some comments Monday morning. Percolate ideas all week, new post Friday ect.
I suspect over time they've had a lot of complaints from very vocal people, over and over, with lots of accusations, and it just gets old and no matter what they say/do the complaints are still there. Have personally watched people complain loudly about something over and over, get it, and without so much as an awesome! or whoot! or thanks! just move on to the next complaint about how their realm is still so much worse off. Taking feedback as they can get it and trying to use it to make an informed decision is really what's most important.
Small community and no transparency from the developers is a bad combination for, what used to be, an established MMO. Catering to a few players on the internal boards was a bad strategy. They need to involve the playerbase as a whole, not a few selected individuals. If that's not feasible at this point, then they're bound to keep making the same mistakes that led to the current situation. But hey, asking why some changes were implemented is rhetorical (lol).
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Broadsword Online Games
Except there's no transparency (echo, echo, echo.......). Feedback is sent into the abyss and we have to wait for a patch (which takes months) to see what was considered. Streamline a feedback forum and make it public so we can have an active discussion between players and developers. Right now, we have a one way street where all the drivers are hidden from one another and the other road is closed.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I've seen very few games over the years where the dev team was as directly involved with the playerbase in having actual discussions with real people as Broadsword has done, rather than a closed off wall that players usually get.
I also think that sometimes they like to let the discussions here and on discord continue without them, because as a Dev if you say something people react to it and you don't get as open of a conversation that you'd otherwise get.
The last podcast was in 2016 which is when, I assume, the Knights program ended. Why stop the communication with it? The quality of their involvement with the playerbase has only decreased since and, unsurprisingly, the active player population has decreased with it.
Not being the worst dev team shouldn't be the goal here.
All they need to do is start a topic and ask for feedback specific to said topic. Let the players discuss from there. This forum is a great place for this type of thing since everyone with an account can login and contribute. However, there is zero direction or indication of what feedback is welcomed or needed that is applicable for what they're working on. There's loads of feedback on here for EC, but we have literally NO idea what's on the table regarding it. For all we know, working on EC means adding another 425 delve PBAOE.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
That is the feedback they are looking for right? Because I've tried every other medium..
I try to give my email address away and she won't take it
We're taking all responses here on board all, and thank you for all feedback.
Broadsword Online Games
So the problem is probably not coding but having enough people to do it.