Definetly think relic keep design is bad for defence but most keep design is pretty bad I’ve said it hundreds of times once that front door is down not a lot defenders can do if you don’t have a strong tank force and numbers to stop them pushing in.
The central keep los is terrible for defence your roof is just one large kill zone for the attackers because of overlooking towers.
I’d like to see rampart access protected by doors rather like the oil level doors I’d also like to see the maze towers return and have the ability inside for a teleporter to port you into any defended keep but only the realm that is defending can use it.
Would split action around map and give something for 8 man groups to do the plains around these towers used to be great fighting zones also large zergs can come unstuck in there.
Lot can be done just needs some will and imagination.
and have the ability inside for a teleporter to port you into any defended keep but only the realm that is defending can use it.
Lot can be done just needs some will and imagination.
please no more free teleports, it promotes ppl afking at at portal town porter waiting to port for action thus removing all the bits for solos, small mans and groups to do.
Remove melee/magic bonuses from relics until population increases and it's not heavily one sided. Hibs having constant 6 relics is quite annoying. As soon as any realm attempts to retake they're usually met with some realm swaps from 8ms to claim the easy defense RPs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And if they manage to retrieve the relic or relics back they are once again back in hib the very next morning with no opposing force to defend against the hibs.
Either way nothing will happen and we gotta just embrace it.
The relics havent changed. MIds and Albs have no desire to capture them, especially when the ultimate outcome is that they will be gone the very next day.
Hibs have owned Beno and Bled predominately for the last week and continue to do so. Mids and Albs seem to be ok with that (i know it doesnt bother me.. its inconvenient, but easy to work around). I havent even seen so much as a claim on them. I like it. Discussing this in guild, my theory is that mids and albs are doing their best to refuse to defend if the result is being farmed. Since the release of EC, and ultimately the removal of an underpopulation bonus, HIb has seen a drastic increase in players. Many theories at play, but being the dominant realm for the majority of the day (Hero zerg), and enjoying the benefits that are obvious there (more group opportunities, more rps, more damage (relic bonus, etc), and pretty much being able to roll over the opposition.. i can't say i would blame anyone for joining in. New players especially.
I havent logged onto my visi toons in over a week, and i'll say i havent missed it much. I'm 99% stealthing at the moment. I'm sure the change has pissed off a subset of the population, but everyone is adjusting. Duelers arent happy because the majority of the stealth zergers are not finding action in normal spots so they are camping Moy/Trelle/Folley. The big zergs arent being fed by the opposition like they had been. RPS arent flowing in like they were for keep defense/attack bonus since Alb and Mid have just thrown in the towel. Its gonna be a fun few weeks ahead.
If you're tired of getting rolled by the bigger zerg, i encourage you to roll a stealther. Enjoy toying around in the bgs. Hopefully the next update from BS will shed some light on where they go next
Yeah have no interest in feeding hibs a 30k rp bonus for defending a keep. Action is stale, there are 1-3g every night port stone camping, meaning no roaming action. PBAE has encouraged people to fight around chokepoints and keeps/towers, but only really benefits defenders not attackers. Groups waiting to port to action instead of roaming for action isn't good, and since the zergs have no incentive to take keeps, we can just zerg down the island every night continuing to ruin small/8v8 action because there's nowhere for zergs to go.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
The pbaoe changes were yet another disaster inspired from the internal boards narrow niche group of players who once again demonstrated they don’t listen.
As people have stated the result is hib with 5 relics with no prospect of return.
Anyone could tell you that the reason hero takes keeps and relics is not the defending realms lack of pbaoe it’s the numbers of his Zerg organisation and the hib tank group being the meta in the game
In fact I’m sure players on hib chuckled at yet more power came in via the patch for there many played pbaoe classes.
Several posters have posted well rescue fails because he dosent run tanks well there is a reason for that no one wants to run tanks on alb because
Alb tanks have fallen way behind.
You can make a good alb tank group but it’s specialised and needs careful setting up but a full assist Heavy tank train is a pain in the ass and just dosent work I’ll only run my armsman now if I think I can get the right set up and that doesn’t happen very often.
Alb also has the red headed step child of classes the reaver which I was told before I got booted from the internal boards was not seen as a group class and basically broadsword were giving up on it .
There was an extensive thread on the armsman class and its limitations nothing came of it but then again I didn’t expect that to happen.
Hib dominates at the moment because hib utility is the best in game making a group on hib requires 3 things bard Druid warden then fill with dps it’s ideal for zergs much more easy to form a group than on alb you have to compromise or lose out on an ability.
As for the relic situation I have resigned my self to the situation in some ways it’s better for eu Albs we no longer need to defend anything and certainty people who run with me won’t unless we have equal numbers or a good set of 8 mans.
The other advantage is because hib has most of the Zerg players now playing alb we get a lot more substandard hib players to kill
We employ the scorched earth policy of letting hero take keeps then avoiding him and only running small groups of 16 man setups taking 5 relics was pretty dumb on his part because he has largely killed his action but we can live with it.
It’s pretty sad that the game has been reduced to this but hey you were told several times but once again no one is listening.
I only agree with one point here, armsman are not on par with the warrior or hero. I have all three, my armsman is the weakest of the three. All three have the same spec points. Hero gets stag mode, warrior gets free 2 hand, armsman gets......crossbow? Does anyone even spec in crossbow anymore? Is snapshot a thing? Maybe an asset for solo open field, but if a heavy tank is intended to push into heavy dps what good is crossbow?
Armsmen have been weak for a long time and your right they ain’t on par with hero or warrior a really good thread on these boards brought up some of the problems and some suggestions it was surprisingly honest and civil and to be honest I was expecting some changes last patch but they just upped the damage on pbaoe classe yeh go figure that one.
Currently stopped playing mine can’t see any hope for alb melee in the future but hey I really have lost interest now.
Seems like this may take care of itself. Maybe i'm being optimistic, or maybe im enjoying the calamity of it all. So far it is fundamentally cause and effect. Zergs rule, people adapt. Players don't appear to be feeding the zergs as much, but i see whining on discord and such about large groups rolling through trelle. Perfff mentioned busting up the 8-mans on the island instead of feeding rp hungry keep campers wanting their defense bonus.
Maybe i've looked at this all wrong. Maybe it will work itself out, .... in the meantime i have to admit. It has been fun to watch it unfold.
Armsmen have been weak for a long time and your right they ain’t on par with hero or warrior a really good thread on these boards brought up some of the problems and some suggestions it was surprisingly honest and civil and to be honest I was expecting some changes last patch but they just upped the damage on pbaoe classe yeh go figure that one.
Currently stopped playing mine can’t see any hope for alb melee in the future but hey I really have lost interest now.
Yeah, I attempted to bring a rationale discussion regarding the state of the Armsman while including the other heavy tanks as well in an attempt to reinvigorate the class. There is not a single person in the game (in my opinion) that would logically argue that the Armsman isn't old and dated in the current meta.
It was a very good thread; alas nothing came of it.
That was part of the reason why I quit playing. BS' continued unwillingness to make reasonable changes and instead do backflips with patch changes (i.e. 425 delve pbaoe - why?)
We got Nged inner into the teens last night. Things going relatively well but then some Albs (group +) show up instead of going after their own relic or anything else for that matter, just right at us. I dont typically have a problem with it, except for the fact that folks in the Alb attack were identified as a hib guild's "alb characters"..
Well WTF is that all about? So now we essentially have the same set of guilds running against us at the same time and likely in comms together split between opposing realms. Not only that, we have some folks who play mids many nights on different realms playing against us now too.
Just disable the relic bonus already. People from mid are playing hib now so it's a double hit against us; not only are they not in our realm fighting along side of us, they are in one of the other realms fighting against us, likely in our own BG/comms (we've seen this a few times over the last month and are trying to address it).
@Amp_Phetamine I remember that thread. Lots of good things. I think Armsman are SO cool (orignally played alb back in the day at launch I was maybe 10 years old) but I since I returned to the game ~5 years ago I have never had an interest in playing one because of the absolute terrible disadvantage they have VS the other heavies.
Heavies in general have been slowly left behind, although I will say Hero and Warrior have been able to hang in there (still love playing my warrior solo). I remember 3-4 ago when @Broadsword gave love to every other class they made a post SPECIFICALLY saying they were looking at heavy tanks next... Once again they've failed on their promises
The relics havent changed. MIds and Albs have no desire to capture them, especially when the ultimate outcome is that they will be gone the very next day.
Both Mid and Alb BG's have tried. Hibs suddenly log on and alb/mid pop suffers and they all collect 100-200k rps.
Yeah, I attempted to bring a rationale discussion regarding the state of the Armsman while including the other heavy tanks as well in an attempt to reinvigorate the class. There is not a single person in the game (in my opinion) that would logically argue that the Armsman isn't old and dated in the current meta.
It was a very good thread; alas nothing came of it.
So you resurrected the post and now you also want to talk about it here? Heavy tanks are in a pretty good place in that its a forgiving class that can take tons of damage, climb walls, has group friendly abilities, is almost never CC'ed and can do damage while being attacked (vs any caster). Also snapshot while running. Heros don't get anything like that. Maybe Arms needs a nerf.
We got Nged inner into the teens last night. Things going relatively well but then some Albs (group +) show up instead of going after their own relic or anything else for that matter, just right at us. I dont typically have a problem with it, except for the fact that folks in the Alb attack were identified as a hib guild's "alb characters"..
Well WTF is that all about? So now we essentially have the same set of guilds running against us at the same time and likely in comms together split between opposing realms. Not only that, we have some folks who play mids many nights on different realms playing against us now too.
Just disable the relic bonus already. People from mid are playing hib now so it's a double hit against us; not only are they not in our realm fighting along side of us, they are in one of the other realms fighting against us, likely in our own BG/comms (we've seen this a few times over the last month and are trying to address it).
Man you guys are so paranoid. When mids were on Nged Tuesday night, yes we hit it with one group. you guys pulled out to tower and we were hitting to Hibs that came out the front door. It has nothing to do with what realm our mains are on. We have been on Alb pretty much since EC came out. How are we going to take a relic with one group? Personally I really dont care about relics. I just care about RPs. at 11 est that was where the action was, so we showed up. That simple, nothing more, nothing less.
Its funny that people complain about hibs having relics for 5 weeks. Back in the day on MLF, hibs had the relics for about 2 yrs. Everytime Mids would try to take take it, the servers would crash. lol
We got Nged inner into the teens last night. Things going relatively well but then some Albs (group +) show up instead of going after their own relic or anything else for that matter, just right at us. I dont typically have a problem with it, except for the fact that folks in the Alb attack were identified as a hib guild's "alb characters"..
Well WTF is that all about? So now we essentially have the same set of guilds running against us at the same time and likely in comms together split between opposing realms. Not only that, we have some folks who play mids many nights on different realms playing against us now too.
Just disable the relic bonus already. People from mid are playing hib now so it's a double hit against us; not only are they not in our realm fighting along side of us, they are in one of the other realms fighting against us, likely in our own BG/comms (we've seen this a few times over the last month and are trying to address it).
Man you guys are so paranoid. When mids were on Nged Tuesday night, yes we hit it with one group. you guys pulled out to tower and we were hitting to Hibs that came out the front door. It has nothing to do with what realm our mains are on. We have been on Alb pretty much since EC came out. How are we going to take a relic with one group? Personally I really dont care about relics. I just care about RPs. at 11 est that was where the action was, so we showed up. That simple, nothing more, nothing less.
Its funny that people complain about hibs having relics for 5 weeks. Back in the day on MLF, hibs had the relics for about 2 yrs. Everytime Mids would try to take take it, the servers would crash. lol
On Devon, Albs dominated. Had the relics all the time. So hibs and mids worked together to get them back. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option with our current player base.
@Rok1 Did it ever cross your mind that some players might play different realms, well... because they like change? Did it ever occur to you that some players might not be sentimentally attached to a specific realm, and just like playing the game for what it is.
oh sorry, I meant SPIES!!! SPIES EVERYWHERE!!!!
Oh I forgot you are a mid, you summoned the great Cry Baby of Midgard, it's a special Norse ability. Thank god not all realms have it.
It's not like everyone doesnt have the option to roll hib. Long ago, you had to choose a realm, and be loyal to that realm, or create a toon on a different server and level up there.. that was a long process. Today, you can easily play another realm from the gate once you log on, or within 15 minutes of rp gain if you chose wrong for the night. We have to learn to adapt. If hibs are dominant at the moment, just jump on the bandwagon. Log onto hib, create a hib, enjoy the relic bonus, enjoy the Herorius zerg if you run EU time, My attitude is constantly changing. I'm starting to agree with some things ive seen here. Instead of me resenting whats going on, i'm going to capitalize on it. I suggest that more do the same. Enjoy the bonuses while theyre here. Roll hib....sarcasm off????? or am i being sarcastic????
Seems to be the size of the current mid zerg. Alb is also under populated. Instead of hitting each other, when taking keeps in Hib, you should be cutting the hib ports off and help each other - not always...just when there is such an imbalance with relics. Play strategically...not just for quickest rps. Only time this is really an option is after Hero logs
Population has been really bad since holidays ended. I know I am tired of trying to fight hibs with 5 relics. Time to change things up and take back our relics!
Im all for taking back the relics but not when we are outnumbered and everone swaps to hib for defence bonuses and pbaoe goes back the where it was. We do not want to clime a mountain then fight force that has all the advantages. It is making the mid bg leaders quit the game or just not lead anymore thats how stupid it is. And i dont know how many times us and the albs dont hit each other when on a hib keep.
We are not crying over not haveing relics we are pissed off that nothing we do helps. Hell 90% if the time we cant even get bled back. So instead of calling us a bunch of cry babies you try playing mid for a wile, then you will see how we feel.
At this point im ready for a server wipe even if most the population leaves because of it. Or the new server has much longer realm timers or can only play 1 realm like the old days
Mids and Albs could always take the Hero approach when attacking keeps. Stack up on heavy tanks to clear ramparts with 2+ spread healers keeping you alive while the siege buffers beat down the door. I know people only want to play certain classes but if you want to be effective in keep warfare, then you need to set yourself up to be effective for keep warfare. The population is too small to rely solely on numbers. Time to strategize.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
@Rok1 Did it ever cross your mind that some players might play different realms, well... because they like change? Did it ever occur to you that some players might not be sentimentally attached to a specific realm, and just like playing the game for what it is.
oh sorry, I meant SPIES!!! SPIES EVERYWHERE!!!!
Oh I forgot you are a mid, you summoned the great Cry Baby of Midgard, it's a special Norse ability. Thank god not all realms have it.
For the record I have alot more Higher level RR Albs than I do Mids. I have played every night except for 1 in last 3 months. I am not a pro at any class I play, but I try.
The point I was making:
Hib guild A also known to play Alb guild C.
Some of Hib guild A is on at the same time as some of Alb guild C.
Hib guild A and Alb Guild C are attacking our forces at nged at the same time. And then when we've been wiped they casually slip away and that is that.
Right now numbers are down for Mid. /who NF was 57 last night. Im sure there were double that between Alb/Hib. BS does not have to worry about those who are posting in this thread. We are paying customers and will continue to do so no matter how the realm is balanced. However those that came back after a long break or are just trying the game new are the ones BS needs to keep in the long run and the current state of the server is not promoting that.
Hell, Albs have just flat out given up trying to get their relics back and are now content with fighting in Mid all night since the outnumber us. That's fine. I make more RP in 20m than Rescue makes his whole night. I don't see how the Alb zerg puts up with it.
Anyways, the server is broke. Either you are on board with finding ways to bring it back into balance or you are against it.
@Rok1 for the record alb guild C has no relationship with Hib guild A, so your accusations are baseless.
It's useless to try and take the relics, as Hero will take them back the next day without any opposition, because you know BS thought it was smart to remove the underpop bonus and break the pbae.
I'm just waiting for BS to say "we fcked up (again), we promise not to dramatically change anything...until next patch. In the mean time, enjoy this ridiculous looking mask"
I am just curious, what is the guild name on hib that was on their Albs? If it was us, and we did hit nged about 11est when Mids were on it, i can tell you that all of us are playing alb.we do not cross realm.
BS does not have to worry about those who are posting in this thread. We are paying customers and will continue to do so no matter how the realm is balanced.
Not true. EC accounts can post as well hence why I can still make an appearance yet have no subscriptions going.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
BS does not have to worry about those who are posting in this thread. We are paying customers and will continue to do so no matter how the realm is balanced.
Not true. EC accounts can post as well hence why I can still make an appearance yet have no subscriptions going.
I merely meant the majority of those here are subscribers (ie we pay)
Okay -so underpop Bonus does not work ? How about Overpop Malus ? Just reduce all rps from Overpop realm by x % ? I know hibs are gona hate it but it could fix the spread of ppl ?
With this thread being about relics, why is it that people think a penalty or bonus to RP's will change anything ?
Imo -50% RP or +50% RP, people that likes to zerg, take relics and defend, will have no reason to move to a realm without a BG leader, who runs on a regular basis.
My personal experience since everything got merged in to ywain and having played all 3 realms on ywain.
Hib zergs seem more relaxed, where alb and mid seem more about crying about losing and blaming every new person in the BG for being a spy, while certain groups / alliances are busy hating on each other at the same time.
Pugs both 8 and small man, again hib seem more relaxed about things, where alb and mids seem to not really like new players and grouping with people they dont know, some even kicking or disbanding groups to pick up players they know, who have just logged on.
Hib are ofc not perfect and every realm has its asshats, hib just generally seem to have a more relaxed take on things, maybe its all the tree hugging who knows.
If mids and albs would be more relaxed and kind to people like @Gavner who actualy tried to change a situation by running a BG, instead of chasing them away with rivers of tears and conspiracy theories, maybe both the relic situation and population balance would look better then it does currently.
Current population seem more focused on crying a river to Broadsword, instead of stepping up and actualy trying to change things, like trying to build a friendly relaxed BG with a decent rep and go slaughter a cow.
Anyways thats my experiences with ywain, maybe i just play with the wrong crowd, wrong hours or whatever.
The spy thing is hilarious honestly. This is a game, who cares if the other BG knows where you are? The goal is to fight the other BG. People are pretending to be master strategists in a game where the objective is to kill virtual avatars.
I can agree with @Shoke about the spying thing. With so many voice platforms now, who even cares to try to avoid it. Discord especially has made things extremely convenient. I'll admit that its kinda fun to watch the 1v1 chat if i'm trying to avoid the zergs and camp with my stealther at Trelle/Moy/Folley. People are setting up fights, or calling backup using that media. BS itself promotes the use of Discord, so its not like its trying to get over on anyone.
The goal of the fight is to either fight the other bg, or to avoid it if it is abundantly dominant. Useful in either format. It would be extremely beneficial to be able to hear each channel simultaneously , but i have a feeling you'd feel like an air traffic controller if you attempted that... too much chatter.. too much traffic.
With this thread being about relics, why is it that people think a penalty or bonus to RP's will change anything ?
Imo -50% RP or +50% RP, people that likes to zerg, take relics and defend, will have no reason to move to a realm without a BG leader, who runs on a regular basis.
My personal experience since everything got merged in to ywain and having played all 3 realms on ywain.
Hib zergs seem more relaxed, where alb and mid seem more about crying about losing and blaming every new person in the BG for being a spy, while certain groups / alliances are busy hating on each other at the same time.
Pugs both 8 and small man, again hib seem more relaxed about things, where alb and mids seem to not really like new players and grouping with people they dont know, some even kicking or disbanding groups to pick up players they know, who have just logged on.
Hib are ofc not perfect and every realm has its asshats, hib just generally seem to have a more relaxed take on things, maybe its all the tree hugging who knows.
If mids and albs would be more relaxed and kind to people like @Gavner who actualy tried to change a situation by running a BG, instead of chasing them away with rivers of tears and conspiracy theories, maybe both the relic situation and population balance would look better then it does currently.
Current population seem more focused on crying a river to Broadsword, instead of stepping up and actualy trying to change things, like trying to build a friendly relaxed BG with a decent rep and go slaughter a cow.
Anyways thats my experiences with ywain, maybe i just play with the wrong crowd, wrong hours or whatever.
I led a couple of impromptu BGs around the time Gavner stopped leading on Mid. My biggest issue was the lack of listening and constant panic when we met opposition. Leading a BG is a thankless job but can be fun if everyone is on board and if there's an opposing BG(s). I stopped leading during US prime on Hib due to lack of opposition. It made 8man action nice for a short while. I do agree though that having a consistent BG on each realm helps tremendously in regard to balancing population. However, I find there is little incentive to lead a BG in a proactive manner as the population is quite small and there are no objectives outside of relic takes that require a large force.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Current population seem more focused on crying a river to Broadsword, instead of stepping up and actualy trying to change things, like trying to build a friendly relaxed BG with a decent rep and go slaughter a cow.
Anyways thats my experiences with ywain, maybe i just play with the wrong crowd, wrong hours or whatever.
I do agree though that having a consistent BG on each realm helps tremendously in regard to balancing population. However, I find there is little incentive to lead a BG in a proactive manner as the population is quite small and there are no objectives outside of relic takes that require a large force.
This is a game design flaw IMO. It is not remotely attractive to step up and lead a BG for most people, and the "crying" Vrisslar speaks of happens in-game as well, and I have seen sent several people who stepped up to lead running for the hills over it.
Then again if NF had a clear goal it wanted us to accomplish and work towards that is fun, the above mentioned issues might be much of a factor in people stepping up to lead/communicate. Winning cures everything, which is why I would imagine Hib is the most relaxed of the realms, when your side is constantly dominating there isn't much to damper the mood. Mid/Alb has been demolished by Hero daily for years, leading to the opposite effect we have on Hib.
I don't believe one realm is superior to the other, and I don't believe Dev's need to try and bail us out with more imbalanced class balances. Just give us a clear, fun goal to strive towards in NF. Right now, it seems the design of the game is pushing everybody towards keep take/defense and relics. It may be time to rethink that model with such a small population.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
I can have been playing this game for 14 years. I started on release to took a 5 yr break in 2011. I came back with the big change patch. I had realm pride. I was all about hib. I came back, found new friends. Started playing other realms and enjoy doing so. Now i have a better understanding of my opponents. And enjoy other classes i did not have access to because of Realm pride.
Now after all these years i have no loyalty to any realm. I will defend what ever realm i am on. But if i see the realm i am on has a large population and my group has noone to fight i am changing realms to have people to fight. If they add anything more to realm timers then i start logging earlier and earlier until i have no desire to log in anymore and quit.
This is a population issue and seems to be more of an EU issue than A US issue.
I play all realms as well as mentioned, my EU Excal and Pryd chars + US Lancelot + Palomides + Morgan are all merged in to ywain, i have love for all my chars ( I spend 18 years with some of them so it must be love, right ? :P lol ), i will defend and help whatever realm im on cause of this, tho i prefer to be with the underdog, as personally i feel greater joy and get better fun from winning an unfarvorable battle then flattening people with greater numbers.
To me NF does have a clear goal, fight people and have fun, some enjoy doing it solo others in a BG and some inbetween.
I play all realms as well as mentioned, my EU Excal and Pryd chars + US Lancelot + Palomides + Morgan are all merged in to ywain, i have love for all my chars ( I spend 18 years with some of them so it must be love, right ? :P lol ), i will defend and help whatever realm im on cause of this, tho i prefer to be with the underdog, as personally i feel greater joy and get better fun from winning an unfarvorable battle then flattening people with greater numbers.
To me NF does have a clear goal, fight people and have fun, some enjoy doing it solo others in a BG and some inbetween.
I think this highlights the point. This game has become more PvP focused than RvR focused, which is completely fine. I would rather see more small mans and FGs roaming to fight each other than a "zerg" (maybe 4-5 FG) killing anything in sight. Zerg fights used to be loads of fun when there was well over a hundred players on each side. Gone are the days of the Crim bowl push-pull fights. They were great times for massive scale fights. These scenarios do not exist anymore anywhere in DAoC today. I hope CU brings some of that back if it ever releases.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I loved the Crim bowl push pulls though. Got every level of player fighting and not just afk for timers.
On another note, yes playing the over pop zergs and rolling players is relaxing... But so is running around not fighting any thing, which is what will happen because of pop imbalance if no other balancing actions happen (bonus, insentivize, or power shift).
And it's funny because statistically most people should say everything is fine because they are just running with the over pop (because it's has the most people, and wins.) Zerg/realm. Just try to see both sides, I've played all 3 realms and ya something needs done (I don't have fun on hibs (very relaxing but no computation, just rolls over stuff and people are so hungry for a fight they Zerg to death spam), mids (feels a bit dead, a few old timers sticking it out and then the short lived spike of low rr mids playing comically hib groups, turning ev blue), and albs (everyone seems mad, and resined to there fait of a dieing game).
Devs just be active, yes whatever is don't now might not work as devs intended but quicky and progressively less drastically balance the game (through events, bonuses, class balance or map design)
Stealth zergs are a cancer - just rolls over stuff...on all realms.
Don't lock it down to such a specific group Kat. If we're being honest.. all zergs are a cancer, right? Whats the perfect environment for "you". 1v1? 1v2? 2v1? 1v3? See where this goes? If everyone was forced to 1v1, then somehow people are going to sneak in an advantage. Thats how the whole game evolved.
I'm playing my stealther 99% of the time now due to relic, keep, and population imbalance. Prior to the recent imbalance, i'd say i was 60/40 zerk/hunter.
When i chose to roll to my stealther, i would prefer to duo up or maybe even 3 man. But over time, you run into a numeric disadvantage so you add to your group.. over time it gets out of hand. Solo, duos, trios, 8 man all do the same, or they log. Please give your solution???
Is! What IS the point of relics?
Whew. That was really bugging me.
And overall, though i asked the same question.. i guess it doesnt really matter what the answer is.. .we do the same thing everyday regardless... we wake up, we eat, we go to work, we eat, we come home, we eat, we sleep... rinse repeat... Relics lately are the same.. log on.. see relics.. either try to take relics, or not.. they are back in the same place the next day. Population is not going to change or increase at this point... Most have accepted it.
The population is too small for all the playstyles available. Zerging becomes the default regardless of class when population is low since the occurrence of running into another solo, small man, or FG is decreased. Solve the population problem and then you'll have enough players to populate the various playstyles. Alternatively, you could separate the playstyles by introducing instanced PvP but that seems to be an unfavorable option.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Stealth zergs are a cancer - just rolls over stuff...on all realms.
Don't lock it down to such a specific group Kat. If we're being honest.. all zergs are a cancer, right? Whats the perfect environment for "you". 1v1? 1v2? 2v1? 1v3? See where this goes? If everyone was forced to 1v1, then somehow people are going to sneak in an advantage. Thats how the whole game evolved.
I'm playing my stealther 99% of the time now due to relic, keep, and population imbalance. Prior to the recent imbalance, i'd say i was 60/40 zerk/hunter.
When i chose to roll to my stealther, i would prefer to duo up or maybe even 3 man. But over time, you run into a numeric disadvantage so you add to your group.. over time it gets out of hand. Solo, duos, trios, 8 man all do the same, or they log. Please give your solution???
Is! What IS the point of relics?
Whew. That was really bugging me.
And overall, though i asked the same question.. i guess it doesnt really matter what the answer is.. .we do the same thing everyday regardless... we wake up, we eat, we go to work, we eat, we come home, we eat, we sleep... rinse repeat... Relics lately are the same.. log on.. see relics.. either try to take relics, or not.. they are back in the same place the next day. Population is not going to change or increase at this point... Most have accepted it.
I feel fine locking it down to a specific group. Stealth zergs killed solo/smallman...which hurts the entire circle of life in the game...till all that is left is zergs. I can completely blame that on stealth zergs. They camp the areas that are know for solo and smallman action, with 8+. There is no way to avoid them. When visi groups are hunting smaller numbers, you can see them coming...not the stealth zergs. You can kind of try to guess, but they move around. And, even if you avoid the hib zerg, you run into the alb zerg.
I am very comfortable calling stealth zergs cancer. The hib zerg and the stealth zergs (on all realms) know what they are doing to the game..and continue. They seem ok with killing what is left of the population, till all that is left is Hero's zerg, and stealth zergers.
You all can blame Broadsword all you want (and trust me, I do) - but it really comes down to the choices the player base makes. No one is forcing the hibs to play with Hero. Every hib that joins him day after day, is responsible for the current state of the game. And, they seem happy with that
I feel fine locking it down to a specific group. Stealth zergs killed solo/smallman...which hurts the entire circle of life in the game...till all that is left is zergs. I can completely blame that on stealth zergs. They camp the areas that are know for solo and smallman action, with 8+. There is no way to avoid them. When visi groups are hunting smaller numbers, you can see them coming...not the stealth zergs. You can kind of try to guess, but they move around. And, even if you avoid the hib zerg, you run into the alb zerg.
I am very comfortable calling stealth zergs cancer. The hib zerg and the stealth zergs (on all realms) know what they are doing to the game..and continue. They seem ok with killing what is left of the population, till all that is left is Hero's zerg, and stealth zergers.
You all can blame Broadsword all you want (and trust me, I do) - but it really comes down to the choices the player base makes. No one is forcing the hibs to play with Hero. Every hib that joins him day after day, is responsible for the current state of the game. And, they seem happy with that
Have fun, I guess /shrug
Remove the ability for sneaks to see each other in a group, and IMO it will drastically cut down on the amount of sneaks running 8+
My only issue with stealth zergs is they generally do not contribute to the action. So when it's 1am PST and there are 25-40 people in NF roughly (all realms), and 8-12 of them are stealthed, hiding, only to attack groups much smaller than them, ruins the action. It's essentially taking 8-12 people that would be running around small/solo/8 and just having them hide until they gank something they want to. It's pretty much the same philosophy as the visi groups that would camp port stones in relic towns.
I get it @Sleepwell , it's all a cycle. Just my 2c
Post edited by Dale_Perf on
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
Comments
The central keep los is terrible for defence your roof is just one large kill zone for the attackers because of overlooking towers.
I’d like to see rampart access protected by doors rather like the oil level doors I’d also like to see the maze towers return and have the ability inside for a teleporter to port you into any defended keep but only the realm that is defending can use it.
Would split action around map and give something for 8 man groups to do the plains around these towers used to be great fighting zones also large zergs can come unstuck in there.
Lot can be done just needs some will and imagination.
please no more free teleports, it promotes ppl afking at at portal town porter waiting to port for action thus removing all the bits for solos, small mans and groups to do.
And if they manage to retrieve the relic or relics back they are once again back in hib the very next morning with no opposing force to defend against the hibs.
Either way nothing will happen and we gotta just embrace it.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
0 answers from broadsword
working as intended im assuming?
@Carol_Broadsword @John_Broadsword @Moderator
The relics havent changed. MIds and Albs have no desire to capture them, especially when the ultimate outcome is that they will be gone the very next day.
Hibs have owned Beno and Bled predominately for the last week and continue to do so. Mids and Albs seem to be ok with that (i know it doesnt bother me.. its inconvenient, but easy to work around). I havent even seen so much as a claim on them. I like it. Discussing this in guild, my theory is that mids and albs are doing their best to refuse to defend if the result is being farmed. Since the release of EC, and ultimately the removal of an underpopulation bonus, HIb has seen a drastic increase in players. Many theories at play, but being the dominant realm for the majority of the day (Hero zerg), and enjoying the benefits that are obvious there (more group opportunities, more rps, more damage (relic bonus, etc), and pretty much being able to roll over the opposition.. i can't say i would blame anyone for joining in. New players especially.
I havent logged onto my visi toons in over a week, and i'll say i havent missed it much. I'm 99% stealthing at the moment. I'm sure the change has pissed off a subset of the population, but everyone is adjusting. Duelers arent happy because the majority of the stealth zergers are not finding action in normal spots so they are camping Moy/Trelle/Folley. The big zergs arent being fed by the opposition like they had been. RPS arent flowing in like they were for keep defense/attack bonus since Alb and Mid have just thrown in the towel. Its gonna be a fun few weeks ahead.
If you're tired of getting rolled by the bigger zerg, i encourage you to roll a stealther. Enjoy toying around in the bgs. Hopefully the next update from BS will shed some light on where they go next
I only agree with one point here, armsman are not on par with the warrior or hero. I have all three, my armsman is the weakest of the three. All three have the same spec points. Hero gets stag mode, warrior gets free 2 hand, armsman gets......crossbow? Does anyone even spec in crossbow anymore? Is snapshot a thing? Maybe an asset for solo open field, but if a heavy tank is intended to push into heavy dps what good is crossbow?
Currently stopped playing mine can’t see any hope for alb melee in the future but hey I really have lost interest now.
Maybe i've looked at this all wrong. Maybe it will work itself out, .... in the meantime i have to admit. It has been fun to watch it unfold.
Yeah, I attempted to bring a rationale discussion regarding the state of the Armsman while including the other heavy tanks as well in an attempt to reinvigorate the class. There is not a single person in the game (in my opinion) that would logically argue that the Armsman isn't old and dated in the current meta.
It was a very good thread; alas nothing came of it.
That was part of the reason why I quit playing. BS' continued unwillingness to make reasonable changes and instead do backflips with patch changes (i.e. 425 delve pbaoe - why?)
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Well WTF is that all about? So now we essentially have the same set of guilds running against us at the same time and likely in comms together split between opposing realms. Not only that, we have some folks who play mids many nights on different realms playing against us now too.
Just disable the relic bonus already. People from mid are playing hib now so it's a double hit against us; not only are they not in our realm fighting along side of us, they are in one of the other realms fighting against us, likely in our own BG/comms (we've seen this a few times over the last month and are trying to address it).
Heavies in general have been slowly left behind, although I will say Hero and Warrior have been able to hang in there (still love playing my warrior solo). I remember 3-4 ago when @Broadsword gave love to every other class they made a post SPECIFICALLY saying they were looking at heavy tanks next... Once again they've failed on their promises
Both Mid and Alb BG's have tried. Hibs suddenly log on and alb/mid pop suffers and they all collect 100-200k rps.
So you resurrected the post and now you also want to talk about it here? Heavy tanks are in a pretty good place in that its a forgiving class that can take tons of damage, climb walls, has group friendly abilities, is almost never CC'ed and can do damage while being attacked (vs any caster). Also snapshot while running. Heros don't get anything like that. Maybe Arms needs a nerf.
Man you guys are so paranoid. When mids were on Nged Tuesday night, yes we hit it with one group. you guys pulled out to tower and we were hitting to Hibs that came out the front door. It has nothing to do with what realm our mains are on. We have been on Alb pretty much since EC came out. How are we going to take a relic with one group? Personally I really dont care about relics. I just care about RPs. at 11 est that was where the action was, so we showed up. That simple, nothing more, nothing less.
Its funny that people complain about hibs having relics for 5 weeks. Back in the day on MLF, hibs had the relics for about 2 yrs. Everytime Mids would try to take take it, the servers would crash. lol
On Devon, Albs dominated. Had the relics all the time. So hibs and mids worked together to get them back. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option with our current player base.
btw, at 9:45pm mst, there was only 39 mids in nf
oh sorry, I meant SPIES!!! SPIES EVERYWHERE!!!!
Oh I forgot you are a mid, you summoned the great Cry Baby of Midgard, it's a special Norse ability. Thank god not all realms have it.
Seems to be the size of the current mid zerg. Alb is also under populated. Instead of hitting each other, when taking keeps in Hib, you should be cutting the hib ports off and help each other - not always...just when there is such an imbalance with relics. Play strategically...not just for quickest rps. Only time this is really an option is after Hero logs
Population has been really bad since holidays ended. I know I am tired of trying to fight hibs with 5 relics. Time to change things up and take back our relics!
We are not crying over not haveing relics we are pissed off that nothing we do helps. Hell 90% if the time we cant even get bled back. So instead of calling us a bunch of cry babies you try playing mid for a wile, then you will see how we feel.
At this point im ready for a server wipe even if most the population leaves because of it. Or the new server has much longer realm timers or can only play 1 realm like the old days
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
That's f*cking comedy... Those can't be said together i'm sorry.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
we were taking towers in hib the other night and the mid group wit the skills just followed us, they probably could have taken ged themselves lol
but then they couldnt have defended against themselves
For the record I have alot more Higher level RR Albs than I do Mids. I have played every night except for 1 in last 3 months. I am not a pro at any class I play, but I try.
The point I was making:
Hib guild A also known to play Alb guild C.
Some of Hib guild A is on at the same time as some of Alb guild C.
Hib guild A and Alb Guild C are attacking our forces at nged at the same time. And then when we've been wiped they casually slip away and that is that.
Right now numbers are down for Mid. /who NF was 57 last night. Im sure there were double that between Alb/Hib. BS does not have to worry about those who are posting in this thread. We are paying customers and will continue to do so no matter how the realm is balanced. However those that came back after a long break or are just trying the game new are the ones BS needs to keep in the long run and the current state of the server is not promoting that.
Hell, Albs have just flat out given up trying to get their relics back and are now content with fighting in Mid all night since the outnumber us. That's fine. I make more RP in 20m than Rescue makes his whole night. I don't see how the Alb zerg puts up with it.
Anyways, the server is broke. Either you are on board with finding ways to bring it back into balance or you are against it.
It's useless to try and take the relics, as Hero will take them back the next day without any opposition, because you know BS thought it was smart to remove the underpop bonus and break the pbae.
I'm just waiting for BS to say "we fcked up (again), we promise not to dramatically change anything...until next patch. In the mean time, enjoy this ridiculous looking mask"
Not true. EC accounts can post as well hence why I can still make an appearance yet have no subscriptions going.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I merely meant the majority of those here are subscribers (ie we pay)
Imo -50% RP or +50% RP, people that likes to zerg, take relics and defend, will have no reason to move to a realm without a BG leader, who runs on a regular basis.
My personal experience since everything got merged in to ywain and having played all 3 realms on ywain.
Hib zergs seem more relaxed, where alb and mid seem more about crying about losing and blaming every new person in the BG for being a spy, while certain groups / alliances are busy hating on each other at the same time.
Pugs both 8 and small man, again hib seem more relaxed about things, where alb and mids seem to not really like new players and grouping with people they dont know, some even kicking or disbanding groups to pick up players they know, who have just logged on.
Hib are ofc not perfect and every realm has its asshats, hib just generally seem to have a more relaxed take on things, maybe its all the tree hugging who knows.
If mids and albs would be more relaxed and kind to people like @Gavner who actualy tried to change a situation by running a BG, instead of chasing them away with rivers of tears and conspiracy theories, maybe both the relic situation and population balance would look better then it does currently.
Current population seem more focused on crying a river to Broadsword, instead of stepping up and actualy trying to change things, like trying to build a friendly relaxed BG with a decent rep and go slaughter a cow.
Anyways thats my experiences with ywain, maybe i just play with the wrong crowd, wrong hours or whatever.
The goal of the fight is to either fight the other bg, or to avoid it if it is abundantly dominant. Useful in either format. It would be extremely beneficial to be able to hear each channel simultaneously
I led a couple of impromptu BGs around the time Gavner stopped leading on Mid. My biggest issue was the lack of listening and constant panic when we met opposition. Leading a BG is a thankless job but can be fun if everyone is on board and if there's an opposing BG(s). I stopped leading during US prime on Hib due to lack of opposition. It made 8man action nice for a short while. I do agree though that having a consistent BG on each realm helps tremendously in regard to balancing population. However, I find there is little incentive to lead a BG in a proactive manner as the population is quite small and there are no objectives outside of relic takes that require a large force.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
This is a game design flaw IMO. It is not remotely attractive to step up and lead a BG for most people, and the "crying" Vrisslar speaks of happens in-game as well, and I have seen sent several people who stepped up to lead running for the hills over it.
Then again if NF had a clear goal it wanted us to accomplish and work towards that is fun, the above mentioned issues might be much of a factor in people stepping up to lead/communicate. Winning cures everything, which is why I would imagine Hib is the most relaxed of the realms, when your side is constantly dominating there isn't much to damper the mood. Mid/Alb has been demolished by Hero daily for years, leading to the opposite effect we have on Hib.
I don't believe one realm is superior to the other, and I don't believe Dev's need to try and bail us out with more imbalanced class balances. Just give us a clear, fun goal to strive towards in NF. Right now, it seems the design of the game is pushing everybody towards keep take/defense and relics. It may be time to rethink that model with such a small population.
Now after all these years i have no loyalty to any realm. I will defend what ever realm i am on. But if i see the realm i am on has a large population and my group has noone to fight i am changing realms to have people to fight. If they add anything more to realm timers then i start logging earlier and earlier until i have no desire to log in anymore and quit.
This is a population issue and seems to be more of an EU issue than A US issue.
To me NF does have a clear goal, fight people and have fun, some enjoy doing it solo others in a BG and some inbetween.
I think this highlights the point. This game has become more PvP focused than RvR focused, which is completely fine. I would rather see more small mans and FGs roaming to fight each other than a "zerg" (maybe 4-5 FG) killing anything in sight. Zerg fights used to be loads of fun when there was well over a hundred players on each side. Gone are the days of the Crim bowl push-pull fights. They were great times for massive scale fights. These scenarios do not exist anymore anywhere in DAoC today. I hope CU brings some of that back if it ever releases.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
On another note, yes playing the over pop zergs and rolling players is relaxing... But so is running around not fighting any thing, which is what will happen because of pop imbalance if no other balancing actions happen (bonus, insentivize, or power shift).
And it's funny because statistically most people should say everything is fine because they are just running with the over pop (because it's has the most people, and wins.) Zerg/realm. Just try to see both sides, I've played all 3 realms and ya something needs done (I don't have fun on hibs (very relaxing but no computation, just rolls over stuff and people are so hungry for a fight they Zerg to death spam), mids (feels a bit dead, a few old timers sticking it out and then the short lived spike of low rr mids playing comically hib groups, turning ev blue), and albs (everyone seems mad, and resined to there fait of a dieing game).
Devs just be active, yes whatever is don't now might not work as devs intended but quicky and progressively less drastically balance the game (through events, bonuses, class balance or map design)
Whew. That was really bugging me.
Don't lock it down to such a specific group Kat. If we're being honest.. all zergs are a cancer, right? Whats the perfect environment for "you". 1v1? 1v2? 2v1? 1v3? See where this goes? If everyone was forced to 1v1, then somehow people are going to sneak in an advantage. Thats how the whole game evolved.
I'm playing my stealther 99% of the time now due to relic, keep, and population imbalance. Prior to the recent imbalance, i'd say i was 60/40 zerk/hunter.
When i chose to roll to my stealther, i would prefer to duo up or maybe even 3 man. But over time, you run into a numeric disadvantage so you add to your group.. over time it gets out of hand. Solo, duos, trios, 8 man all do the same, or they log. Please give your solution???
And overall, though i asked the same question.. i guess it doesnt really matter what the answer is.. .we do the same thing everyday regardless... we wake up, we eat, we go to work, we eat, we come home, we eat, we sleep... rinse repeat... Relics lately are the same.. log on.. see relics.. either try to take relics, or not.. they are back in the same place the next day. Population is not going to change or increase at this point... Most have accepted it.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I feel fine locking it down to a specific group. Stealth zergs killed solo/smallman...which hurts the entire circle of life in the game...till all that is left is zergs. I can completely blame that on stealth zergs. They camp the areas that are know for solo and smallman action, with 8+. There is no way to avoid them. When visi groups are hunting smaller numbers, you can see them coming...not the stealth zergs. You can kind of try to guess, but they move around. And, even if you avoid the hib zerg, you run into the alb zerg.
I am very comfortable calling stealth zergs cancer. The hib zerg and the stealth zergs (on all realms) know what they are doing to the game..and continue. They seem ok with killing what is left of the population, till all that is left is Hero's zerg, and stealth zergers.
You all can blame Broadsword all you want (and trust me, I do) - but it really comes down to the choices the player base makes. No one is forcing the hibs to play with Hero. Every hib that joins him day after day, is responsible for the current state of the game. And, they seem happy with that
Have fun, I guess /shrug
Remove the ability for sneaks to see each other in a group, and IMO it will drastically cut down on the amount of sneaks running 8+
My only issue with stealth zergs is they generally do not contribute to the action. So when it's 1am PST and there are 25-40 people in NF roughly (all realms), and 8-12 of them are stealthed, hiding, only to attack groups much smaller than them, ruins the action. It's essentially taking 8-12 people that would be running around small/solo/8 and just having them hide until they gank something they want to. It's pretty much the same philosophy as the visi groups that would camp port stones in relic towns.
I get it @Sleepwell , it's all a cycle. Just my 2c