How about a combination of things...hear me out......
One problem is realm A has a larger population than realm B so they automatically have an advantage. Realm B should then receive a buff. Either a literal buff to all stats, or a buff to all siege stats (more oil damage, faster ram speed, skald buff type stuff.) But you cant get that buff if you have been playing multiple realms. So you get a stat buff of 1% on day one, 2% on day 2, and 7% on day 7 (again random numbers I'm making up.) But you only get the buff in the 2 situations.
tldr:
Get a stat buff and or siege buff that grows over time (days,) you must be underpopulated, and you have been loyal to the realm for x number of days.
Problem i could see with this build up over time, is that people who dont have the buff are still better off just switching to the biggest zerg. What i would try to achive with what i listed is pretty much that its beneficial to go help the underdog, while at the same time if the fight is close to equal all gets the same reward.
To me the problem seem to be less about loyalty as that wont balance much out, but more about all people being interested in an close to equal fight and not just pile on to the winning side or logging off.
How about a combination of things...hear me out......
One problem is realm A has a larger population than realm B so they automatically have an advantage. Realm B should then receive a buff. Either a literal buff to all stats, or a buff to all siege stats (more oil damage, faster ram speed, skald buff type stuff.) But you cant get that buff if you have been playing multiple realms. So you get a stat buff of 1% on day one, 2% on day 2, and 7% on day 7 (again random numbers I'm making up.) But you only get the buff in the 2 situations.
tldr:
Get a stat buff and or siege buff that grows over time (days,) you must be underpopulated, and you have been loyal to the realm for x number of days.
Would this buff reset upon population balance or would it scale for playing the realm consecutively yet only increase during underpopulated times?
Good question. But i think the second statement you made would make the most sense. I dont know....
It's definitely an avenue that could be explored. The most important thing to consider is not taking everything possible into account first. The best way to implement something like this would be to start small and alter it slowly over time until it's developed into a proper system.
Due to the recent changes with the introduction of EC and the subsequent removal of the under-populated bonus. I would like to re-introduce this thread as a topic of conversation as the prospect of "realm pride" is continually being discussed as a favorable concept.
Please share your opinions, discussions and ideas regarding this topic and the current standing of implementing this in 2020 DAoC.
Hibs with population and relics are the only realm able to keep 7 keeps level 5. That's an extra 10% RP bonus IN ADDITION to the 10% power 5% strength and 45% coin/bp/xp bonus.
Implement 1hr realm timer and you have realm pride right there. My 2cents.
Done with this for now anyways. When Publix gets very expensive and not worth my money i go to Walmart. ;p
Just because i am forced to play a realm doesnt make me have realm pride. It just forces me to play a certain realm. Daoc 2019-2020 is all about RPs, not realm pride. If i am defending a keep its not because of realm pride. Its because i can get 50k + rps. I would prefer to roam then keep fight.
Just because i am forced to play a realm doesnt make me have realm pride. It just forces me to play a certain realm. Daoc 2019-2020 is all about RPs, not realm pride. If i am defending a keep its not because of realm pride. Its because i can get 50k + rps. I would prefer to roam then keep fight.
It sounds to me that you are more against realm timers and have absolutely no desire/interest in "realm pride". Therefore any iteration of realm pride being implemented wouldn't have any effect on your playstyle as long as you aren't negatively effected by what variant of realm pride is put in place.
Edit: It also would appear by your statement that there are drastic changes that have recently been implemented by BS that require alterations/overhauls that have resulted in a drastic population imbalances in favor of a single realm.
Please note: The concept of realm pride is to target those players that wish to play a specific class/realm but are being indirectly influenced (as is the current case with the dominance of Hibernian BG's currently) to play a specific realm or class due to the current meta.
Realm pride is a means to justify playing "your" favorite class/realm regardless of the odds against your realm. To give players a reason to not "switch sides" or simply log off. That's the entire "hidden" meaning of realm pride. How it is to be implemented is yet to be seen.
That's the whole point the "anti timer" crowd has been voicing. I think we've made some good arguments as to why timers aren't any good and we proposed a bunch of alternative solutions that would actually work. These arguments were usually received by the "pro-timer" crowd negatively and that crowd usually responds with insults looking like "you're just a X-realmer" without adding a single intelligent argument to the debate.
I would say the best realm timer BS has actually implemented are the RP buff potions. 500k RPs for 3 charges, man you don't want to waste one. So if you use a potion, you're staying on that realm for the duration (2 hrs I think).
That's the whole point the "anti timer" crowd has been voicing. I think we've made some good arguments as to why timers aren't any good and we proposed a bunch of alternative solutions that would actually work. These arguments were usually received by the "pro-timer" crowd negatively and that crowd usually responds with insults looking like "you're just a X-realmer" without adding a single intelligent argument to the debate.
I would say the best realm timer BS has actually implemented are the RP buff potions. 500k RPs for 3 charges, man you don't want to waste one. So if you use a potion, you're staying on that realm for the duration (2 hrs I think).
Hah, I see your point.
Well, I did make this suggestion of realm pride in lieu of realm timer/under-population bonus to begin with because I couldn't foresee either being successful.
For example - who the hell cares if you have a 85% under-population bonus if you can't kill anything to begin with.
The whole concept of this model is to give players a reason to continue playing their class regardless of population disadvantage.
That's just it, the only imbalance in this game is tbe Hero zerg, EU Prime Time. During us prime you do have hib alb and mid zergs. Granted Mid is really just a guild zerg with a few randoms but its 2-4 groups every night. Albs usually have thbe biggest zerg
I don't want to go through everything we proposed, but basically the "pro-timer" team wants timers back to prevent realm swapping during relic take attempts.
Why don't just make a buff that makes you take big damage when at a relic keep for 60 minutes after swapping? I'm not sure how much room there is to be creative with solutions before the good ole' "the code is old" argument comes creeping back.
The issue with a loyalty bonus is that people are currently loyal to hib, so on top you are telling them to stay there even more.
Not necessarily @Shoke. I wouldn't be surprised if 30-45% of those players would prefer playing alternate toons/realms but don't due to their being absolutely no reason not to switch to Hib during EU prime.
Would you say that people are more loyal to "hib" or to "winning". The reason Hibernia is so popular is that they win and receive rewards for doing so.
What if you took that "winning" variable out of the equation. That you could still "win" while playing albion or midgard during EU prime.
The majority of players have a preferred play-style/class/realm. Realm pride will give those players a reason to play alternative characters and not just immediately swap to the "winning" realm.
That's just it, the only imbalance in this game is tbe Hero zerg, EU Prime Time. During us prime you do have hib alb and mid zergs. Granted Mid is really just a guild zerg with a few randoms but its 2-4 groups every night. Albs usually have thbe biggest zerg
Having realm pride wouldn't change that either.
But currently if you're outnumbered 10:1 what incentive is their to stay outnumbered and not simply join the over populated side?
This imbalance is detrimental to pvp games.
So you don't want to force players away from the Hib EU BG because negative punishment isn't good for anyone. However, what @Broadsword could do is give the under-populated realms a reason not to "switch sides".
Realm pride will give players an incentive to stick to a toon for longer periods of time. If you multi-toon, it won't negatively effect you. If you cross realm, it won't negatively effect you. It's simply rewarding players for investing in a toon/realm over a longer period of time.
Not necessarily @Shoke. I wouldn't be surprised if 30-45% of those players would prefer playing alternate toons/realms but don't due to their being absolutely no reason not to switch to Hib during EU prime.
Would you say that people are more loyal to "hib" or to "winning". The reason Hibernia is so popular is that they win and receive rewards for doing so.
What if you took that "winning" variable out of the equation. That you could still "win" while playing albion or midgard during EU prime.
The majority of players have a preferred play-style/class/realm. Realm pride will give those players a reason to play alternative characters and not just immediately swap to the "winning" realm.
Well... The issue is having 80% of the server sticking Herorius. I don't think these people are looking for anything else than semi-afk making RPs. You get RPs for winning and killing other realm's players. I don't think anyone in the hero zerg could go to an underpopulated realm and kill anything, their brain is just fried from all this zerging.
The thing is you can't take out the "winning" part of it, that's how you make RPs. Unless they start implementing participation trophies by giving some bonus for defending, even when not killing anything.
I know a few groups switch to the underpopulated realms to fight the overpopulated realm. Its what we did. Its about RPs. You get more action if there are more people to kill. I dont like roaming around for 30 min with almost no action.
Hero has a good following and he makes action. I remember the days when he would actually take the zerg to labby and go zerg down people in the solo area. In us prime rescue has a good follow on alb. When he doesnt log on people freak out and dont know what to do.
If one realm cant defeat Hero work with the other realm to beat him.
I would like to clarify that the purposed concept of "Realm Pride" is not being suggested as a means to "fix" the current population issues.
It is simply an element that, if introduced, would give players an incentive to play their preferred class/realm and reduce the negative influence of being underpopulated.
How it would be implemented/function is above my pay-grade. It comes down to giving players a reason to play other than logging off or switching realms.
@Amp_Phetamine I think what you are looking for is a "loyalty" bonus that is only activated by being on the underpop realm. So you get a underpop bonus and if you stick to your realm all the time, you get another bonus on top.
@Amp_Phetamine I think what you are looking for is a "loyalty" bonus that is only activated by being on the underpop realm. So you get a underpop bonus and if you stick to your realm all the time, you get another bonus on top.
People in the hero zerg don't need another bonus.
Only a bonus to the latter. I am completely indifferent to whether or not the realm is underpopulated or not. It's about loyalty to the realm.
How about a combination of things...hear me out......
One problem is realm A has a larger population than realm B so they automatically have an advantage. Realm B should then receive a buff. Either a literal buff to all stats, or a buff to all siege stats (more oil damage, faster ram speed, skald buff type stuff.) But you cant get that buff if you have been playing multiple realms. So you get a stat buff of 1% on day one, 2% on day 2, and 7% on day 7 (again random numbers I'm making up.) But you only get the buff in the 2 situations.
tldr:
Get a stat buff and or siege buff that grows over time (days,) you must be underpopulated, and you have been loyal to the realm for x number of days.
Sounds great until you consider the play styles that would ruin.
Bringing back the underpopulation bonus will do more good than either realm timers or a loyalty bonus. It still befuddles me that it was removed to begin with.
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Bringing back the underpopulation bonus will do more good than either realm timers or a loyalty bonus. It still befuddles me that it was removed to begin with.
Amp_Phetamine , somes peoles love playing the 3 realms , aparrently not you (and it's your right) but realm pride is a bad idea , i know alot of people who love play differents toons on differents realms . I personally switch for the lower populated realm for better action . Underpopulated bonus is the way to go .
Amp_Phetamine , somes peoles love playing the 3 realms , aparrently not you (and it's your right) but realm pride is a bad idea , i know alot of people who love play differents toons on differents realms . I personally switch for the lower populated realm for better action . Underpopulated bonus is the way to go .
Which is perfectly fine. I've outlined in prior post how a "realm loyalty" bonus would have absolutely no negative effect on people who like to play multiple toons across different realms.
Making the current bug potion buff ramp up would be neat. The longer you're on that realm...the bigger the reward. Then if they could make it persist on log out as long as you don't log on a different realm (in which case it would cancel) then you could log back in to the same realm (maintaining "loyalty") and continue where you left off (would be useful for LDs and when real life forces you to log off and deal with spouse agro etc..lol). Obviously the would have to be some sort of cap or max out but still.
I like the idea, though it needs something to assist balancing pop. I suggest make the buff do nothing on over populated realms and a percentage better on under populated realms (this should allow for a more long term balance). When all realms have about equal pop the bonus is normal (no pop modifier added in).
I do a agree that this will fix some of the playstyles that are hurting the game (realm hopping to large pop easy win realm when rps are easy). But it would also catch some not so disruptive playstyles and hurt them aswell. Some of these that may be inversely effected could be the players who have two active guilds but one is active in the morning on mid and the other at night on alb or something. Even the groups that like to play 8v8s and they jump around with different setups on all realms (as long as the jump does not benefit them but just results in a different play style)
Maybe the solution would be a way to mark a realm (be that for the day/week/month, as your primary realm). This could tie into the pop bonus calculation. Marking could be as easy as a repeatable quest that's account bound and repeats every (day/week/months) and gives you a realm pride pot. This could be do able on every char but once done on one realm by even on char it could not be done on another realm untill the quest is reset (day/week/month). Or any other way that's doable for bs (maybe just char on all realms get the pop but if you have the buff on one char in another realm (long duration buff (day/week)) then you can't use it in another realm. This way you can have the buff on one realm but not the others making it no a lose to switch but not a bonus either (allowing people there playstyles without hurting the mulit guild or true multi realm player (should still hurt the realm hoppers that do it for the rp only, and this way should make a better sense of where the pop is in general and not just during the last 20 minutes ( though under pop bonus should be calculated from both long term and short term statistics))
here is another big problem. People are so paranoid about spies. which is not a big issue IMO. But last night when we could not find any roaming groups to fight, we were going to meet up with rescue to help alb BG since we kept running into Mid and Hib zergs.. But for about 15 min we asked in BG where the BG was. We got crickets. Not one person was willing to say where BG was. Instead we roamed around until we eventually ran into it. But don't come to boards and cry about population when people were willing to help and got no response.
this topic was brought up over a year ago among other things to make people from zerg hopping. So i do not think BS will put it in to many people like to switch realms to run with bg leaders. But here is a few ideas they should think about.
1. make it to were u can pay rent on another realm if u playing another one
2. make it to were u can also transfer money from one realm to another with out having to get someone else to help ya do it.
3. redo the relic system, make the relic temple guards harder to kill and gives the under populated realms a better chance to defend them. You made class changes and the guards are much easier to kill, so now make guard changes around the temples
4. make realm timers 1 hour, it prevents people from logging off from one bg to go defend a relic in another realm. and as far as pve raids most people have discord and event channels so they know when the raid is going to happen.
5. bring back the heavy tanks
6. BS needs to run more polls and broadcast it in region chat that the pole is up so people are aware the pole is up and everyone gets a chance to vote on it not just the ones that read the broads
The fact is a lot of people that left the game left and lots would like to come back, but the realm hopping from zerg to zerg just because they lost one fight ruined it for a lot because u have pretty even numbers then one fight later one realms numbers drop in one bg, and the other bg jumps up,
realm pride bonus i would do this
Day one u on one realm no bonus
Day 2 10% to rps and bounty points earned
days 3 15% percent to rps 20 percent to bounty points
day 4 20% to rps 30% to bounty points
day 5 25% to rps 40 to bounty points
And once u switch realms in a 24 hour period the the bonus resets
@Sanford can you elaborate what you mean by "bring the heavy tanks back"? There is another thread on heavy tanks / armsman and the general consensus is that heavy tanks are near perfect, aside from the arms that could benefit from a little dusting off
here is another big problem. People are so paranoid about spies. which is not a big issue IMO. But last night when we could not find any roaming groups to fight, we were going to meet up with rescue to help alb BG since we kept running into Mid and Hib zergs.. But for about 15 min we asked in BG where the BG was. We got crickets. Not one person was willing to say where BG was. Instead we roamed around until we eventually ran into it. But don't come to boards and cry about population when people were willing to help and got no response.
When your (and my) allegiance is to rps not realms, people won't trust us. I have absolutely seen IRC type groups tell friends where the BG was to get their friends rps and help clear off the island.
Bringing back the underpopulation bonus will do more good than either realm timers or a loyalty bonus. It still befuddles me that it was removed to begin with.
This is an easy fix. A realm switch or long standing absence means you start at low percent RP return and over a period of play are rewarded with higher % RP return. This way loyalty is earned not given...
Comments
Problem i could see with this build up over time, is that people who dont have the buff are still better off just switching to the biggest zerg. What i would try to achive with what i listed is pretty much that its beneficial to go help the underdog, while at the same time if the fight is close to equal all gets the same reward.
To me the problem seem to be less about loyalty as that wont balance much out, but more about all people being interested in an close to equal fight and not just pile on to the winning side or logging off.
It's definitely an avenue that could be explored. The most important thing to consider is not taking everything possible into account first. The best way to implement something like this would be to start small and alter it slowly over time until it's developed into a proper system.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Please share your opinions, discussions and ideas regarding this topic and the current standing of implementing this in 2020 DAoC.
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https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
lol
Hibs with population and relics are the only realm able to keep 7 keeps level 5. That's an extra 10% RP bonus IN ADDITION to the 10% power 5% strength and 45% coin/bp/xp bonus.
Why would I do anything but play Hib?
Because youre cool?
Done with this for now anyways. When Publix gets very expensive and not worth my money i go to Walmart. ;p
It sounds to me that you are more against realm timers and have absolutely no desire/interest in "realm pride". Therefore any iteration of realm pride being implemented wouldn't have any effect on your playstyle as long as you aren't negatively effected by what variant of realm pride is put in place.
Edit: It also would appear by your statement that there are drastic changes that have recently been implemented by BS that require alterations/overhauls that have resulted in a drastic population imbalances in favor of a single realm.
Please note: The concept of realm pride is to target those players that wish to play a specific class/realm but are being indirectly influenced (as is the current case with the dominance of Hibernian BG's currently) to play a specific realm or class due to the current meta.
Realm pride is a means to justify playing "your" favorite class/realm regardless of the odds against your realm. To give players a reason to not "switch sides" or simply log off. That's the entire "hidden" meaning of realm pride. How it is to be implemented is yet to be seen.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
I would say the best realm timer BS has actually implemented are the RP buff potions. 500k RPs for 3 charges, man you don't want to waste one. So if you use a potion, you're staying on that realm for the duration (2 hrs I think).
Hah, I see your point.
Well, I did make this suggestion of realm pride in lieu of realm timer/under-population bonus to begin with because I couldn't foresee either being successful.
For example - who the hell cares if you have a 85% under-population bonus if you can't kill anything to begin with.
The whole concept of this model is to give players a reason to continue playing their class regardless of population disadvantage.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Why don't just make a buff that makes you take big damage when at a relic keep for 60 minutes after swapping? I'm not sure how much room there is to be creative with solutions before the good ole' "the code is old" argument comes creeping back.
The issue with a loyalty bonus is that people are currently loyal to hib, so on top you are telling them to stay there even more.
Would you say that people are more loyal to "hib" or to "winning". The reason Hibernia is so popular is that they win and receive rewards for doing so.
What if you took that "winning" variable out of the equation. That you could still "win" while playing albion or midgard during EU prime.
The majority of players have a preferred play-style/class/realm. Realm pride will give those players a reason to play alternative characters and not just immediately swap to the "winning" realm.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Having realm pride wouldn't change that either.
But currently if you're outnumbered 10:1 what incentive is their to stay outnumbered and not simply join the over populated side?
This imbalance is detrimental to pvp games.
So you don't want to force players away from the Hib EU BG because negative punishment isn't good for anyone. However, what @Broadsword could do is give the under-populated realms a reason not to "switch sides".
Realm pride will give players an incentive to stick to a toon for longer periods of time. If you multi-toon, it won't negatively effect you. If you cross realm, it won't negatively effect you. It's simply rewarding players for investing in a toon/realm over a longer period of time.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Well... The issue is having 80% of the server sticking Herorius. I don't think these people are looking for anything else than semi-afk making RPs. You get RPs for winning and killing other realm's players. I don't think anyone in the hero zerg could go to an underpopulated realm and kill anything, their brain is just fried from all this zerging.
The thing is you can't take out the "winning" part of it, that's how you make RPs. Unless they start implementing participation trophies by giving some bonus for defending, even when not killing anything.
Hero has a good following and he makes action. I remember the days when he would actually take the zerg to labby and go zerg down people in the solo area. In us prime rescue has a good follow on alb. When he doesnt log on people freak out and dont know what to do.
If one realm cant defeat Hero work with the other realm to beat him.
It is simply an element that, if introduced, would give players an incentive to play their preferred class/realm and reduce the negative influence of being underpopulated.
How it would be implemented/function is above my pay-grade. It comes down to giving players a reason to play other than logging off or switching realms.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
People in the hero zerg don't need another bonus.
Only a bonus to the latter. I am completely indifferent to whether or not the realm is underpopulated or not. It's about loyalty to the realm.
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https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Sounds great until you consider the play styles that would ruin.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
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>Daoc Videos<
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
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Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
Which is perfectly fine. I've outlined in prior post how a "realm loyalty" bonus would have absolutely no negative effect on people who like to play multiple toons across different realms.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
I do a agree that this will fix some of the playstyles that are hurting the game (realm hopping to large pop easy win realm when rps are easy). But it would also catch some not so disruptive playstyles and hurt them aswell. Some of these that may be inversely effected could be the players who have two active guilds but one is active in the morning on mid and the other at night on alb or something. Even the groups that like to play 8v8s and they jump around with different setups on all realms (as long as the jump does not benefit them but just results in a different play style)
Maybe the solution would be a way to mark a realm (be that for the day/week/month, as your primary realm). This could tie into the pop bonus calculation. Marking could be as easy as a repeatable quest that's account bound and repeats every (day/week/months) and gives you a realm pride pot. This could be do able on every char but once done on one realm by even on char it could not be done on another realm untill the quest is reset (day/week/month). Or any other way that's doable for bs (maybe just char on all realms get the pop but if you have the buff on one char in another realm (long duration buff (day/week)) then you can't use it in another realm. This way you can have the buff on one realm but not the others making it no a lose to switch but not a bonus either (allowing people there playstyles without hurting the mulit guild or true multi realm player (should still hurt the realm hoppers that do it for the rp only, and this way should make a better sense of where the pop is in general and not just during the last 20 minutes ( though under pop bonus should be calculated from both long term and short term statistics))
1. make it to were u can pay rent on another realm if u playing another one
2. make it to were u can also transfer money from one realm to another with out having to get someone else to help ya do it.
3. redo the relic system, make the relic temple guards harder to kill and gives the under populated realms a better chance to defend them. You made class changes and the guards are much easier to kill, so now make guard changes around the temples
4. make realm timers 1 hour, it prevents people from logging off from one bg to go defend a relic in another realm. and as far as pve raids most people have discord and event channels so they know when the raid is going to happen.
5. bring back the heavy tanks
6. BS needs to run more polls and broadcast it in region chat that the pole is up so people are aware the pole is up and everyone gets a chance to vote on it not just the ones that read the broads
The fact is a lot of people that left the game left and lots would like to come back, but the realm hopping from zerg to zerg just because they lost one fight ruined it for a lot because u have pretty even numbers then one fight later one realms numbers drop in one bg, and the other bg jumps up,
realm pride bonus i would do this
Day one u on one realm no bonus
Day 2 10% to rps and bounty points earned
days 3 15% percent to rps 20 percent to bounty points
day 4 20% to rps 30% to bounty points
day 5 25% to rps 40 to bounty points
And once u switch realms in a 24 hour period the the bonus resets
When your (and my) allegiance is to rps not realms, people won't trust us. I have absolutely seen IRC type groups tell friends where the BG was to get their friends rps and help clear off the island.