My experience as a F2P to subbed account
I came back as an EC account with all the restrictions. I played about 2-3 weeks dabbling in all the things EC had to offer. I finally subbed and the 3 big reasons were: 1, 12 days of xmas... 2, It's the holidays and work is slow/more time to play and 3, I wanted to see the difference...
Since I have resubbed I enjoy the state of the game LEAPS AND BOUNDS more than when I quit a year ago. The new Bountypoint system is amazing. I can run quests in ToA and get plenty of BPs and am able to template lvl 50 toons that I had honestly given up on because of the OP gear that took too long for a casual player to acquire.
On top of that I think the balance of classes is much better than when it was a year ago. There are still some minor class balances that could be done, but overall it's better than it has been in over 3 years...
******But my BIGGEST issue since coming back to the game is POPULATION! @Carol_Broadsword @John_Broadsword @Lea_Broadsword @Broadsword please listen to what I have to say next...
Get rid of most of these restrictions you have for EC accounts because it is ruining the population of the game. It could be SO much more. The idea is getting people in the door, get numbers up for subscribed players to see in-game, and eventually get new EC players to subscribe. Let me tell you FIRST AND FOREMOST you could remove 90% of the EC restrictions and I would have STILL subbed after seeing all the changes to QoL (gear especially) and class balances since I left.
EC restrictions suggestions:
-give EC accounts the same XP and bonuses as subbed accounts (this includes guild bonuses)
-Allow EC accounts to do /xp off, and allow EC accounts to use the Realm Point Remover NPC (EDIT: increasing XP to normal or higher but allowing /xp off will still allow players to stay in BGs and learn their character if they so choose while allowing others to level normally)
-Allow all classes (anything else is just silly)
-Allow people to use /bank... c'mon this is an easy one
-Reduce the 1:30 /region chat timer to either same as subbed or :30
-Allow the use of Supremacy potions
-Allow CL abilities....
- Lower realm swap time to 30 minutes (Edit: at least 60 minutes)
- Housing: you need to allow EC accounts to buy a house, if only a cottage. Also, to returning players on EC accounts, you need to allow them to remove items from their big houses so they can grab items they have stored there for templating. There was nothing more disheartening than knowing I had an item but if I wasn't ready to subscribe just yet I knew I would have to farm BPs to get that item as EC
I promise you, people will still want to resub to get BP bonuses, normal RPs and the bonuses, and the monthly rewards you get for subscribing. Literally for BPs and RPs ALONE will evenatually get everyone to subscribe.
Honestly letting up on other restrictions is definitely in the cards, but PLEASE as it stands right now you are only HURTING the population and the subscription player-base with how EC currently stands
Since I have resubbed I enjoy the state of the game LEAPS AND BOUNDS more than when I quit a year ago. The new Bountypoint system is amazing. I can run quests in ToA and get plenty of BPs and am able to template lvl 50 toons that I had honestly given up on because of the OP gear that took too long for a casual player to acquire.
On top of that I think the balance of classes is much better than when it was a year ago. There are still some minor class balances that could be done, but overall it's better than it has been in over 3 years...
******But my BIGGEST issue since coming back to the game is POPULATION! @Carol_Broadsword @John_Broadsword @Lea_Broadsword @Broadsword please listen to what I have to say next...
Get rid of most of these restrictions you have for EC accounts because it is ruining the population of the game. It could be SO much more. The idea is getting people in the door, get numbers up for subscribed players to see in-game, and eventually get new EC players to subscribe. Let me tell you FIRST AND FOREMOST you could remove 90% of the EC restrictions and I would have STILL subbed after seeing all the changes to QoL (gear especially) and class balances since I left.
EC restrictions suggestions:
-give EC accounts the same XP and bonuses as subbed accounts (this includes guild bonuses)
-Allow EC accounts to do /xp off, and allow EC accounts to use the Realm Point Remover NPC (EDIT: increasing XP to normal or higher but allowing /xp off will still allow players to stay in BGs and learn their character if they so choose while allowing others to level normally)
-Allow all classes (anything else is just silly)
-Allow people to use /bank... c'mon this is an easy one
-Reduce the 1:30 /region chat timer to either same as subbed or :30
-Allow the use of Supremacy potions
-Allow CL abilities....
- Lower realm swap time to 30 minutes (Edit: at least 60 minutes)
- Housing: you need to allow EC accounts to buy a house, if only a cottage. Also, to returning players on EC accounts, you need to allow them to remove items from their big houses so they can grab items they have stored there for templating. There was nothing more disheartening than knowing I had an item but if I wasn't ready to subscribe just yet I knew I would have to farm BPs to get that item as EC
I promise you, people will still want to resub to get BP bonuses, normal RPs and the bonuses, and the monthly rewards you get for subscribing. Literally for BPs and RPs ALONE will evenatually get everyone to subscribe.
Honestly letting up on other restrictions is definitely in the cards, but PLEASE as it stands right now you are only HURTING the population and the subscription player-base with how EC currently stands
Post edited by Armagedden on
Comments
I've dabbled in EC a bit and can say it's nearly unplayable for new players. Returning players may have a chance if they remember the mechanics and can use some of their old characters. But EC is a big middle finger to anyone who attempts to try this game out for the first time. The 180days unsubbed requirement is laughable with the clear intent to trap subscription players. Too bad all it does is lead to less players in game. Not much of an MMO these days.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Yes, that 180 days requirement is truly not needed. As a player who has come back and experienced both EC and Veteran, I can easily say that if there was no 180 day requirement I 100% would not unsubscribe just to "play for free". Even IF Broadsword made all the changes I suggested above, if I was playing this game enough I would definitely much rather pay a sub.
It's a no-brainer, Broadsword needs to lessen these restrictions by a substantial amount or it will be a flop. I understand they are going to continue to tweak EC, but if they don't at least do away with these suggestions then it will not be successful
It's safe to say that anyone who would dump any substantial amount of their time it takes to play an MMO will eventually subscribe even if EC was adapted with far less restrictions as stated above, and that's the whole point!! So let's lessen these restrictions and get people in the game FFS
1.) Reduced RP progression: EXCEPT allow for RP pots and the Buggane pot to be purchased for Mithril and BPs.
2.) Limited inventory space: EXCEPT allow EC users to purchase a cottage with two house vaults AND introduce an account-wide /bank.
3.) Limited tradeskills: EXCEPT allow EC users to LGM one trade per character like the old days with increased craft time.
4.) Classic buff limitation: EXCEPT allow EC users to use all buff potions.
The rest can be QoL restrictions like: limit respecs to once per day per character, no /rp off, no /train on the go, no /bank on the go, etc.
Give subscribers Mithril every month, increased inventory space, /train on the go, no market explorer fee, etc.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
So all i think most of us want is for you guys to take another look at ec.but other then that keep up the hard work
#KEEPDAOCALIVE2030
To add: remove realmskillpoints cap.
If they dont work on population, people will quit, and in sommer Ywain is dead.
@Kroko , I think RR cap should remain. For returning players who may very well have RR that is higher than RR7 this might seem bad, but I was in the same boat as these players, and after all EC is to get people BACK to the game to see the changes and fixes that caused so many people to leave. I strongly feel that if people who left the game in the last 3 years due to the patches came back and saw all the QoL changes and liked it, they would eventually sub anyways. Let's not forget the goal of EC is to get people back and eventually sub. And TBH any new player that starts as EC will absolutely not ever reach the RR cap with the current RP restrictions on F2P, which again is kind of the point.
All I'm asking for is fair treatment to F2P accounts, which currently is not happening
Atm ec is huge flop and wasted effort with its current restrictions
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Not long ago you were calling for an ESO approach to EC. What changed? BS can't make subs attractive without making EC trash. That's a problem considering the development time they spent on it.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Population in general has picked up a bit, it just didn't meet everyone's expectation. This of course partly because the restrictions, partly because everyone expects different FTP experience, and not all going to like the current gameplay. It's unlikely to expect everyone be happy, and all people stay with the game, there be people who don't enjoy it for various reasons.
The restrictions are chosen by the developer with much more intel on financial state, and goals. They have all the means necessary to change anything later on if they wish. I do think there is still work to be done, which they kind of acknowledged already in the latest Grab Bag. It's a place to start at.
Honestly, I expected it not do anything at all, because my general thought has been that most people who stopped playing are largely not due the expense of sub, so didn't expect anything more then an endless trial that we missed past years. Game could be in better state, but were in much worse either.
I only have issue with comparing DAoC to other FTP models with millions of players is simply dishonest. We all know DAoC for the most part always been a sub based game, going out 0 restriction FTP immediately would be a huge financial risk with the amount of sub the game has currently. Let's face it, there is nothing free in this world, being rude by expecting everything for free is not the way towards Broadsword, who at least allowed it at some level. (some critiques are not that nicely worded
FTP players right now pay with their playtime, to make population closer to subbed players wishes. It's probably not enough atm, but too much FTP compared to Subbed bring costs to a developer, just start with the support, whos hands probably full already. Yes, some EC players will buy things for mithril, but right now thats probably minimal compared to Sub income, plus mithril purchases from already subbed players. A complete rework of Sub bonuses, mithril shop etc would probably take time, and risks.
I wish the best for DAoC 2020, hope the EC revisions will bring more positive outcome soon, but it's always easier to go lighter on restrictions, then introduce after release, be patient till the first changes early this year.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Edit: Also, don't get me wrong, you always been pretty reasonable guy, but some being salty with aggressive comments defo ain't going far, just bad PR for the game. I always look up games before playing, forums so full of positivism that already would drive me away.
If the experience is bad, people will quit one day. So there is no reason to assume pop will stay like this.
Other games are coming out this year. They want to make a new server this year. This will pull away further players from Ywain. This is no good look ahead.
EC is a very good possibility to get new players and make players return, also as subbed. But the current restrictions are ridiculous. Thats why they need to be changed. If you change little, you also get little results. Thats very logical.
I wish they only did it as an pop increase to keep current pop playable (how many mixed systems work).
Fine they can keep there 180 days or whatever (though if your game is good and pop returns you should not have to worry), and fine cap the end game (rr cap) and slow the rp gain to get subs out of "long" playing free accounts (not the lvl 12 guy who gets left by other people lvling).
And I'm fine with not a 1 to 1 buff bots ratio so leave buff bots restrictions.
And housing plots are a limited resource (with no rent it gets worse over time) so make them not own , but they should be able to use them (qol).
/Bank is not that bad as it's not needed at low level and is not really "needed" untill you shoving Rams and other things in it, but for qoa it might be nice.
Class restrictions, this is a hard one.. I think we should do fine, we already have the return players that can play anything (if they played it already for a day strait..) on the other hand this just causes frustration for people who do not read the full email or patch notes and whatnot. So maybe the restriction should be removed, if your afraid people would play op/more fun classes just BALANCE THE GAME.
The cost increases and rp buff/ xp off/ increased basic horse cost, across the board rp nerf, should just be removed (don't try pretend to have an alternative payment method that just charges anyone who plays more then 1 day a month more then the subscription).
That's just my take, with more players there will be more subs (that is the number one reason for most people canceling/ not resubing (or the related affects if under population, which could be mitigated in other ways if needed, but that's for another post))
Nuff said.
he has helped me a LOT in the last week and a half, defending against herorius when i was leading mid BG. i am thankful for that.
yesterday he also re-logged hib and wrecked a double alb/mid relic retake raid....
the rules allow it, but ...
IMHO the last patch actually hurt paying subs significantly.
As a sub that pays 15-30$ USD/month the last patch:
Removed all alternative currency (this has a direct negative impact on the in game economy)
Reduced all pve xp by -50% xp
- This increased the leveling time of CL15 cloak by a factor of 2 (used to take 1.5-2 hrs -> now it's 3.5-4 hrs).
- This also slowed down all CLxp
Increased the cost of all NPCs dyes significantly was 5g now 250g (this was implemented to force buying omni dyes)
Increased the cost of MLs 1-10 via bps exponentially
No longer can trade bp speed
No longer can use ANY xp scroll below level 50
Increased yet AGAIN the the highest level bp/xp scroll to 10,000 bps (used to be 5,000).
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Yap, about EC being "free", it never really is, is it?
Regardless, even subbed people wanted EC, costs need to be paid somehow.
Dyes are meh, first off that 5g was 30g, crafted dyes costs same, and we all know DAoC economy was highly inflated, only way to remove cash from the game is to increase prices on whatever, dye, repair etc..
Patterns could be free too, but Sub income probably wasn't enough I guess. Still, people love that **** like I do, would prefer it not being in an MTX store, but OK with if I can play my all time fav game for a few years more.
But yeah, peoples perception is FTP should be completely free with no restrictions, Subs shouldn't pay the cost of that either, in fact they should lower the cost of being sub. It just doesn't work like that.
stop letting your emotions get the better of you. 90% of you are adults now.
thats really ridiculous. Some people just play where the rps are.
In my mind, the only really negative part about EC is that, as a subbed account, I had more before EC than after EC. I had more RPs, more XP, could use my current currencies (glass) to buy artifacts and MLs, I didn't have to run 3x as many supplies quests to get CL15, my loyalty cloak leveled twice as fast, etc.
Alsi, everywhere there was a nerf, there is now an overpriced solution in the MTX shop. These items in the MTX should have been strictly (primarily) targetted towards EC accounts.
This is the main grudge everywhere. We have really bad action, US prime is a disaster action wise, and what we got from EC is just what looks like a last attempt at grabbing our cash before the game dies.
So hopefully BS had great vacations and the EC changes hit before the end of Jan.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
From my point of view EC is a fail and has been developed by people who don't play the game themselves and only work to specifications, Additionally the whole marketing is bad > the customer gets it advertised as f2p but if you are more involved it seems to be a lock model to bring new/returning players to the sub, and with the limitations...
sorry it is also badly done.
At least it feels that way to me.
But what bothers me most is this 180 days restriction, it just doesn't make sense, no matter from which point of view I try to see and understand it.
The game is presented to me in the newsletter/letter and everywhere else as f2p with EC, in truth I feel it is a revision of the 14 days test, if it had been marketed as such, I would have seen the whole topic differently.
Daoc = F2p? nope, just another trial version with (heavy) restrictions and no chance (ok, after 6 f**** months) to go back after you pay -> cool? Not for me at least
like others said, i would have been willing to sub anytime but this model just feels like a bad trick to force me to pay, Especially because i have to wait 180 days if i don't like it or if it's not worth it again to sub fbut OKish to play on f2p basis and leave some money in the MTX shop. But i can not go that route so i quit completly.
greetings
EC doesnt have a QoL is why people isn’t sticking around.
I'm 100% agree with you @Kat that "the expectations for the f2p were oversold, and people were disappointed when they realized they waited a year for an extended free trial". because thats what fits for me and most of my RL Friends who has played DAOC in the past. They thought EC will be a f2p Model like swtor/TESO or other similar mmos have.
Now, I get that I shouldn't expect the same experience as a player that pays, but even though it's "free", I still don't play. I don't expect to get everything someone paying $15 a month gets, but EC is too restrictive to enjoy.
I would even be willing to pay for unlocks for certain features, much like Everquest 2, as I choose. That way I can tailor my F2P experience the way I want. For example, not having access to /bank is tough. But I'd pay to unlock it, assuming it was reasonable. Same for housing... If I could pay a one time fee to unlock the ability to buy/use a house, I'd pay for that too. I can't even access my old vaults.
The class restrictions? Insane. I get not allowing all classes for free. But how can someone know if they want to play long-term if they can't play more than a small sample of classes per realm? To be honest, many of them aren't a good example of the many roles available in DAoC. But again, I'd pay to unlock them. Even if they were in groups. Say, four additional classes per unlock?
RP/XP off is another game changer for me. I loved BGs. It just doesn't seem to make sense to rush new players or players getting reacclimated to the game out of the BGs. That's where you (I) truly learn to play my classes.
I don't mind slower progression either. There's at least potions for that. I don't love the RR cap being so low though.
Not being able to use Sup pots, buff restrictions, etc... Another crippling problem.
This all adds up to EC being nothing more than a brief glimpse at the game, long enough to make people (me included) realize that not only are the mechanics more challenging than most games to master, the UI and graphics are dated, all of which I'm ok with, but the restrictions on top of all that make the game nearly impossible for a new player or even many/most returning players to enjoy.
But the real icing on the cake for me? If I sub and decide to unsub as I usually do after about six months or so... I have to wait six MONTHS to go "F2P" again. I even passed on the 12 Days of Christmas this year because I didn't want to sub just to get them and then wait six months to go free again. Sucks.
TLDR; As most have stated, the restrictions are crazy. The 180 waiting period to go F2P again is even crazier. But, I'd be willing to unlock features/classes for a price if that was offered.
Dream is dead.
you and others, read my entire post. not just my last line.
Dude this IS the feedback. Everyone here has given rather easy to implement suggestions and I would say 90% of them are far from asking too much/over the top. And back to my OP, if 90% of these restrictions were removed I still would have re-subbed anyways for the BPs/RPs alone because let's be real if anyone was going to play this game enough to actually try and progress and get RPs and template more characters, you might as well just sub.
Here's where I'm coming form and call me crazy if I'm crazy but...
- remove 90% of these restrictions
- more people will play = more people in game which makes subscribers VERY happy (there we go, already #1 problem in this game is solved: population)
- if people invest into leveling/farming/temping their toon so far FOR FREE (with nice QoL and less restrictions as suggested above) and really enjoy the game, they are going to sub. Why are they going to sub? Because if you invested all this time into a character and now want to get RR you basically need to sub (because like I've shown in another post of mine, kill a RR12 on EC account you get 1200 RPs... kill a RR12 on subbed account you get 4000RPs for same kill plus bugganes rp bonus, /gc rps bonus, realm ownership bonus, and whatever other bonuses are in the game could net you another 2000-4000rps on top of the 4k, not to mention bonuses for quests etc
- this leaves people with 2 options which should honestly be a no-brainer win/win for Broadsword, Either they
1) Continue to not sub and essentially play the game for free with buff pots and /xp off and other QoL changes (that theoretically Broadsword should make unless they are absolutely out of their minds) but make absolute dogsh*t for RPs/BPs and get no special rewards/monthlys OR
2) They subscribe and it literally streamlines the whole process, they get more RPs, BPs, other QoL things like monthy thank-yous etc, and just overall enjoy the experience because they essentially progress 5x faster
Am I crazy?
The only point is about the xp/MLs/CLs that could be evaluated.
If you had MTX options (lower cost than currently) to purchase MLs/CLs and XP boosts, would it be more profitable than simply removing restrictions?
The winning option should be the one that ultimately increases population, even if that means potentially slightly lower revenues, as these revenyes will be steadier over time.
MTX revenues are probably spiky in nature (when a new mask releases, during holidays, etc) while sub revenues are steady.
It's obvious their objective is to make people sub, but right now the conclusion is that they can't see the carrot that will lead them to sub, they only see the 15 roadblocks that prevent them from seeing it soon enough before they stop playing.