Time to revisit Realm Bonuses / population bonuses !

Pleazing · April 2019

Would it be possible to update the realm bonuses to make them more appealing to realm pride defenders and make them deter cross realming?

Realm Pride Buff:
Given to those who are on a realm when another realm becomes twice or three times as populated as they are. Example, if Albion has 51 players and Midgard has 25. Only midgard players on at that time, not after will receive a 200% bonus to RP and BP. If albion goes 76 players and midgard has 25, all players on at that time will receive 300% bonus to RP and BP. People logging on or cross realming over to mid will not receive the buff.

on the other side

Zerg Mindlessness:
This will not effect players currently on Albion but will effect those logging on to albion or cross realming. A warning will appear on the "realm chooser" screen on log in that there is a "Zerg Mindlessness" Debuff that will be placed on you if you enter the over populated realm. Upon logging in at twice the population, you would receive a -10% to all RP and BP and with a population 3 times that of the lower realm. You would receive a -25% to all RP and BP.

Just an idea but cross realming needs to be address. Nothing like half a BG logging off to defend a relic when the BG decides to take one or get theirs back. Or just plan realm hopping to fight 8 mans. The lower population realm is at a loss when you can muster only 2 grps against 5 or 6 grps from other realms.

Thank you!

Fateboi · April 2019

Short term memory on these forums. Wasn’t the point to get people to swap because Hib was a ghost town during US prime time except for SDN...(where’d they go)

Impounded · April 2019

Xing is and always will be an issue

You can't fix it with bonuses and penalties. The real issue is population. It magnifies the damage Xing causes in the situations you mentioned. I have some experience with relic attempts failing because of certain groups swapping to get easy defense RPs pretty much all of it was hibs for obvious reasons.

PS: I am still on board with the realm timer ideas.

Sleepwell · April 2019

Realm timers do work, not sure why they are adamantly against it. It is what it is though. I will keep re-upping every other month or so in hopes that pop will rebound. I think BS is doing the best BS can do.

Arcanixx · April 2019

Sleepwell wrote: »

Realm timers do work, not sure why they are adamantly against it. It is what it is though. I will keep re-upping every other month or so in hopes that pop will rebound. I think BS is doing the best BS can do.

Thats a good question. Has it ever been addressed in a grab bag or notes somewhere as to why BS is against realm timers? @Carol_Broadsword

Carol_Broadsword · April 2019

In a fashion. In February 1st's Grab Bag this was a question:

When running with BGs it seems like there can be a lot of players ditching the “losing team” and joining the “winning team” Is there anything you can tell us about anything in the works to deter realm hopping/jumping on the band wagon and promote more true RvR action? For example the idea of a realm timer has been floating around.
Realm balance is an important topic that our development team has and continues to discuss at length.

As we’ve mentioned in previous updates, we are planning to have an RvR population balancing system that replaces the current Dynamic Population Bonus system with the launch of the Endless Conquest update. Whether that is a new ‘Realm Loyalty’ system that offers account-wide rewards for sticking to a single realm *in RvR* (PvEing on other realms wouldn’t interfere) for certain lengths of time or another, more active population balancing system specific to the Frontier regions remains to be seen!

At this time, we have no plans to bring back realm login timers.

https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-02012019

Jollygreenjerk · April 2019

People have there normal routine.. People are loyal to herorius so they log in to join him and have been for the longest time. Midgard never had population during his zerg time except for annamarie on her scheduled days.. as well as Albion. With midgard at a downhill spiral with our zerg leaders in the shadows only time will tell. Albion is still US prime strong at the moment as well as rescu returning. The game seems to be gathering better during US prime little by little which is wonderful hopefully it keeps up!

Sleepwell · April 2019

I'll keep my hopes up and my fingers crossed. I did re-up this last month, but after logging in @ 5 times i chalked it up to wasted money for the time being. Each night i did log in , it was @ 8:30-9pm EST. Each of those nights there were 10-20 mids in NF. I figured some could be anon, so i made a loop or two around EV. Just not worth it to me at the moment. I'd love to see progress to the new campaign or some progress as Carol pointed out in the grab bag. I'll keep my eyes on the forum, and will potentially return again when progress is made. Til then....

Armarnidi · April 2019

Carol_Broadsword wrote: »

In a fashion. In February 1st's Grab Bag this was a question:

When running with BGs it seems like there can be a lot of players ditching the “losing team” and joining the “winning team” Is there anything you can tell us about anything in the works to deter realm hopping/jumping on the band wagon and promote more true RvR action? For example the idea of a realm timer has been floating around.
Realm balance is an important topic that our development team has and continues to discuss at length.

As we’ve mentioned in previous updates, we are planning to have an RvR population balancing system that replaces the current Dynamic Population Bonus system with the launch of the Endless Conquest update. Whether that is a new ‘Realm Loyalty’ system that offers account-wide rewards for sticking to a single realm *in RvR* (PvEing on other realms wouldn’t interfere) for certain lengths of time or another, more active population balancing system specific to the Frontier regions remains to be seen!

At this time, we have no plans to bring back realm login timers.

https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-02012019

I am canceling my accounts and will not be returning until they add in realm timers.

Keltorius · April 2019

Get rid of the siege kill quest and a lot of hopping will stop. But at least a 30 minute timer would help.

Tyrantanic · April 2019

Placing in Realm timers doesn't fix any problems. Population tracks BG leaders. If a Realm lacks a BG leader, then the population sways to a Realm that has one. Notice how the Mid population plummeted when their BG leaders quit. Also notice how the Hib population has increased since I've started leading on the regular during US prime. It's clear that a large fraction of the population enjoys zerging and therefore will go wherever there is a zerg. Lack of leadership leads to a low Realm population. Additionally, BG leaders pissing off those who follow them will also lead to a declining population. I suspect I'm guilty of this for some.

Realm hopping isn't an issue as much as some believe it to be. I've experienced the "effects" on both sides. It can be annoying to watch bonuses sway as the night progresses. However, that sway rarely translates to BG numbers. Remember, there are other players that don't zerg who switch to make their own action if necessary. Due to the low server population, a few people switching can cause the bonuses to alter drastically. It may seem like a bunch of people hopped to defend a keep or relic but it's usually groups who roam that come for the defense RPs.

In short, adding a Realm timer will simply discourage players from logging in. If you want to boost your Realms population, then start leading a BG on the regular.

47el · April 2019

last few nights----when alb went for ged mid pop bonus went to 75-100 percent

Hib 10 or less......

presently there needs to be a way that bots do not count.

a realm pride type of buff would be great

realm timers also

Sleepwell · April 2019

I disagree @Tyrantanic , but you're entitled to your opinion as i am entitled to mine. You're not gonna change my mind, and im sure i wont change yours. I've also read your take on why timers won't work. My take is directly in objection to yours, as you would expect. When i was playing 6 nights a week (mid mainly). We had BG leaders. We had a formidable bg count as well. Hib was picking up steam, and alb had been increasing in numbers as well. Hib primarily kept the relics. No one really was concerned with taking them during US prime time knowing that Hero would just zerg them back the next day... but ocassionally it was attempted. Follow me... Mid BG was primarily where the population existed US Primetime. But then you add in the attempt of a relic raid, and the population shift was extremely apparent. 80 mid vs 40 hib vs 40 albs became 40 mids vs 80 defenders vs 40 of the other realm. There is nothing wrong with defending a realm. But to act like realm pride has anything to do with population is a fallacy. I'll admit that having a timer puts constraints on a lot of things that i like to do now, but it creates solidarity. Switching on a dime to the higher pop realm, or the winning realm breeds complacency and dependency. Im happy to sit and watch the forums until well thought out changes are implemented. Population rules above all. If you see it grow, the right changes are being made. If you watch it dwindle, then maybe its time for a change. I'll mimic what several others have said... Play where you're happy. If you're happy doing what you're doing, thats enough for me.

One idea that i've always been a fan of.... people mentioned that a timer only hurts people who want to trade. Then offer what has been suggested over and over. NO timer. But a cooldown on when you can gain RPS. 5 minute cooldown before you can gain rps when you hop realms. 5 minutes is just enough time to port, go take a bathroom break and grab a drink. Something over nothing....

Tyrantanic · April 2019

Sleepwell wrote: »

Follow me... Mid BG was primarily where the population existed US Primetime. But then you add in the attempt of a relic raid, and the population shift was extremely apparent. 80 mid vs 40 hib vs 40 albs became 40 mids vs 80 defenders vs 40 of the other realm. There is nothing wrong with defending a realm. But to act like realm pride has anything to do with population is a fallacy.

Guard counts stated otherwise. I'm sure that players hopped; however, I strongly doubt that the Mid BG lost as many players as you're suggesting when guard spam was routinely above 60, sometimes pushing 100 on the weekends. There is a discrepancy between roaming numbers and defending numbers in BGs. The latter is always higher because those who don't run with the BG will jump on the defense train. Therefore, the apparent increase in population when hitting a keep has less to do with Realm hoppers and more to do with the Realm converging. Now that the population has dropped significantly, I have noticed that my /BG count represents the majority of NF population. When we hit a keep, the bonuses change slightly but the /BG count doesn't. If Realm hopping was a major problem, then it should be exacerbated with the current low population. Unsurprisingly, it isn't.

Sleepwell wrote: »

One idea that i've always been a fan of.... people mentioned that a timer only hurts people who want to trade. Then offer what has been suggested over and over. NO timer. But a cooldown on when you can gain RPS. 5 minute cooldown before you can gain rps when you hop realms. 5 minutes is just enough time to port, go take a bathroom break and grab a drink. Something over nothing....

I don't doubt there are some who want Realm pride; however, it is self-imposed and shouldn't be forced upon the players, imo. I honestly don't see how a RP cooldown would stop anyone from hopping Realms. Keep takes last longer than 5 minutes. Sometimes they last over an hour. If the remaining players feel that strongly about Realm timers, then it should be at least 1 hour if you want to prevent hopping. Consequently, if such a timer would be implemented, it would only serve to benefit prime-time hours as a timer would effectively kill any off-hour action that is generated by players hopping around.

Fateboi · April 2019

Mid counts are down but plenty of action to be had @Sleepwell HMU on discord

Sleepwell · April 2019

I'll hit you up Phat, but my account expires again next week. Nothing enticing enough to keep me around for now. As i stated, i will cruise the boards when i can and when it looks interesting or when i see changes that appeal to me

Flik · April 2019

I'm with @Tyrantanic on this one.

Having zerged a decent amount myself tagging alongside Rescu this last month I've payed attention to the change in the /bg numbers when a) a keep take (in hib mostly) is attempted and b) when the alb zerg whiped against an enemy zerg multiple times. The answer? the bg population does not drop, it continues to slightly increase throughout the night, in all cases.

When attempting a keep take, there could well be roaming groups who will divert from the main bg to instead continue roaming, giving the illusion that your realm numbers are dropping. More importantly in hibs case, the 8mans that are out will usually come home and defend because they know the advantage they possess in a keep even against a force more than twice their number. So all of a sudden a zerg will encounter a bunch of hibs in a keep who they will think are people switching realms, yet these people are not realm swappers. They are mostly 8mans who have been doing what they can to avoid the zerg up to this point but who now show up when a more advantageous fight is offered.

I think people see these things and immediately call realm swapping due to the increased buzz surrounding the topic lately, I've seen it mentioned occasionally in the /bg chat after a failed keep attempt. Yet I can identify most/all of the enemy defenders as hib groups that consistantly play this timezone, and this only started becoming a bigger issue when the hib population started to grow.

Undoubtedly realm swapping exists to some extent, but I believe its effects to be greatly exaggerated. It comes accross to me as this element that you can just point at and blame when you die without having to really back it up. Believe me when I say as an 8man player that I can relate to wanting a conveient excuse after a loss.

Sleepwell · April 2019

As i stated. i don't agree with that opinion. Several others do not agree. Thats the great thing about free market. No one is forced to play something. You like it, you play, you don't, you play somewhere else. Its simple. In the end i hope everyone is enjoying themselves. Hope to see you in the future

. I'm glad to keep my eye on the patch notes/updates etc.

Tyrantanic · April 2019

Eh, to each their own I suppose. @Flik hit the nail on the head regarding the illusion of Realm hopping. I honestly couldn't care less about Realm timers. My main concern regarding a timer is its effect on off-peak hours since I know players switch around to create action. A short timer (10 minutes or less) wouldn't impact these players much; however, a longer timer (greater than 1 hour) would certainly encourage players to log off if there's nothing to fight. Perhaps this will be a lesser issue if the upcoming F2P model is successful at increasing the population.

47el · April 2019

last night population was low----our little alb 5 man hit a group of mid steathers at bug and won lol--we had tic and smite heals----low and behold me met up with another smallman alb which certified was one of them and seen them log at the bug. Along came cert and his 3 man hib and a mid. i found out crossteaming is allowed----Seen cert and his boys do it again switching from their alb to hibs later at a tower. I called them out on it and some alb said in region that there was only one mid and a bot on..............i remember when a cetain warden got banned for logging a toon into mid and then coming back to hib and reporting numbers--yes it was on igraine long ago, but is it not all the same crossrealming or is it just "being good". it happens when we play stealth also---also certain names log off alb and low and behold find us lol. Is this the way the game is to be played now

12 hour timer on bird seems to be working fine, i have notice certain names back here who were on the ban borards lol----

47el · April 2019

also check those bg numbers again when rescu trys hitting ged

watch mid grow to 70-80 percent----the 8 mans coming to defend would not change those numbers. Broadsword should maybe check this out 9pm--12am eastern time US. Its is laughable hearing/reading in bg those certain groups in the alb zerg calling for a relic take then leaving when rescu does lol. I iknow I know the leet boys say get good---get skills........................

47el · April 2019

never knew a harley knucklehead to be mild lol .....................

stewbeedoo · April 2019

I'm ok with a short realm timer, but not cool with rp penalties. I only play Hib and solo so why should I be penalized because there is a big Hib Zerg up?

Fateboi · April 2019

Slow small changes over time. No need to reinvent (or break) the wheel that has been doing decently well even during these low population times. It was originally introduced and then significantly helped out the US rime time Hibs. Where as before then for a very long time prime time US was only a two way fight (alb vs. mids).

Sleepwell · April 2019

It's perfectly acceptable if they leave things just as they are right now. I'll patiently wait and watch. Who knows, maybe pop will start making a significant climb again <shrug>

Corey117 · April 2019

I agree with stewbeedoo, i switch from time to time so when i solo i can find something to kill

Impounded · April 2019

stewbeedoo wrote: »

I only play Hib and solo so why should I be penalized because there is a big Hib Zerg up?

^

Clumsy · April 2019

Pleazing wrote: »

Would it be possible to update the realm bonuses to make them more appealing to realm pride defenders and make them deter cross realming?

Realm Pride Buff:
Given to those who are on a realm when another realm becomes twice or three times as populated as they are. Example, if Albion has 51 players and Midgard has 25. Only midgard players on at that time, not after will receive a 200% bonus to RP and BP. If albion goes 76 players and midgard has 25, all players on at that time will receive 300% bonus to RP and BP. People logging on or cross realming over to mid will not receive the buff.

on the other side

Zerg Mindlessness:
This will not effect players currently on Albion but will effect those logging on to albion or cross realming. A warning will appear on the "realm chooser" screen on log in that there is a "Zerg Mindlessness" Debuff that will be placed on you if you enter the over populated realm. Upon logging in at twice the population, you would receive a -10% to all RP and BP and with a population 3 times that of the lower realm. You would receive a -25% to all RP and BP.

Just an idea but cross realming needs to be address. Nothing like half a BG logging off to defend a relic when the BG decides to take one or get theirs back. Or just plan realm hopping to fight 8 mans. The lower population realm is at a loss when you can muster only 2 grps against 5 or 6 grps from other realms.

Thank you!

[edited]

Fateboi · April 2019

There are certain groups who are swapping but they aren’t chasing the bonuses or really even augmenting the BG’s at all.
Most people myself include will swap to find action.
I’d like to play HIB but typically tbey are zerging it up during EU and stealther zerging US prime...Therfore I’m not playing Hib. Bonus in my case has minimal influence on why I play a realm.
I get and understand and acknowledge the realm pride issue.
GL

Muylae · April 2019

Flik wrote: »

I'm with @Tyrantanic on this one.

Having zerged a decent amount myself tagging alongside Rescu this last month I've payed attention to the change in the /bg numbers when a) a keep take (in hib mostly) is attempted and b) when the alb zerg whiped against an enemy zerg multiple times. The answer? the bg population does not drop, it continues to slightly increase throughout the night, in all cases.

When attempting a keep take, there could well be roaming groups who will divert from the main bg to instead continue roaming, giving the illusion that your realm numbers are dropping. More importantly in hibs case, the 8mans that are out will usually come home and defend because they know the advantage they possess in a keep even against a force more than twice their number. So all of a sudden a zerg will encounter a bunch of hibs in a keep who they will think are people switching realms, yet these people are not realm swappers. They are mostly 8mans who have been doing what they can to avoid the zerg up to this point but who now show up when a more advantageous fight is offered.

I think people see these things and immediately call realm swapping due to the increased buzz surrounding the topic lately, I've seen it mentioned occasionally in the /bg chat after a failed keep attempt. Yet I can identify most/all of the enemy defenders as hib groups that consistantly play this timezone, and this only started becoming a bigger issue when the hib population started to grow.

Undoubtedly realm swapping exists to some extent, but I believe its effects to be greatly exaggerated. It comes accross to me as this element that you can just point at and blame when you die without having to really back it up. Believe me when I say as an 8man player that I can relate to wanting a conveient excuse after a loss.

i think the issue of realm swapping is vastly exaggerated like you mention. does it happen ? yes. have i led a bg to take a keep and then went on to take a keep that held my realms relic ? yes. did i lose a lot of numbers and then encountered some of the players that were with me now defending the relic ? yes. but in 'normal' rvr, i think the effect is minimal. realm swapping mostly happen with the elite crews who are never 'in' the zerg anyway. i don't think the 'casual' players realm swap like so many people claim.

Time to revisit Realm Bonuses / population bonuses !

Comments