Paladin - Two-Handed DPS

Nightmare · January 2019

What is the actual variance/difference of sub-spec'ing Thrust/Slash/Crush while using a Two-Handed Weapon for a Paladin?

Is it honestly worth it? Jam the extra points into Parry instead?

Armagedden · January 2019

You might see a big variance in damage if you aren't sub-specced in one of the three. At one time I played my 2h-pally in molvik and I didn't have quite enough points to get to composite 1h, and I noticed up to about a 50 damage variance sometimes on hits. I think I was only 5 or less points off composite. I never tested it thoroughly though, and since 50 I've always been composite.

Just get a couple respec stones and try hitting the lvl 50 dummy a bunch with 0 into 1-h, half into 1-h, then full composite and see what kind of difference it makes

Huehuaehue · January 2019

I dunno how pallys play/spec but you can have 0 points in your 1hand line and just use shield styles when your 2h isn't out, shield styles weaponskill is based off your shield level so you don't need any 1hand skill to be able to land attacks

Impounded · January 2019

44 2h
comp weapon
48chants
7shield
Rest Parry

Spec I enjoyed most. I sure as hell wouldn't run without comp weapon as a 2h pala.

Tyrantanic · January 2019

Amp brought this up a while ago regarding polearm.

See link for formula: http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage

Composite weapon spec is necessary to avoid large damage variances.

Nightmare · January 2019

Huehuaehue wrote: »

I dunno how pallys play/spec but you can have 0 points in your 1hand line and just use shield styles when your 2h isn't out, shield styles weaponskill is based off your shield level so you don't need any 1hand skill to be able to land attacks

Im not worried about doing 1H damage, as much as my variance with 2H, as I am not spec'ing into shield at all. I just am needing to know how significant of a difference I will have with no sub-spec, rather than lowering my Parry ( my only defensive against other melee's ) so that I can compensate for maybe a 20 damage variance, that would not be worth it to me.

If I can Parry 5-10% more of the time, rather than doing +\-50 damage with a 2H swing, I would rather Parry more.

Any thoughts?

Impounded · January 2019

You will cap parry either way you spec. I would take comp weapon over less MoP any day.

Nightmare · January 2019

Impounded wrote: »

You will cap parry either way you spec. I would take comp weapon over less MoP any day.

From what I have researched, it's fairly tough to cap parry, because a large portion of your % is based off of your opponents weaponskill.. Could you elaborate a little more, please?

EDIT: I've heard that there isnt really a thing as "over capping Parry" because of this factor...

Impounded · January 2019

Nightmare wrote: »

From what I have researched, it's fairly tough to cap parry, because a large portion of your % is based off of your opponents weaponskill.. Could you elaborate a little more, please?

EDIT: I've heard that there isnt really a thing as "over capping Parry" because of this factor...

The cap is 50%. Enemy's WS may lower your parry rate, so hitting 50% should be your minimum target.

Overcap 5-10% if you can, either way on pally 2h you're going to be looking at Mopar6-7 maybe more at low-mid RR.

22Parry +dex + Mopar7 for my pala to hit 50%

Nightmare · February 2019

Impounded wrote: »

Nightmare wrote: »

From what I have researched, it's fairly tough to cap parry, because a large portion of your % is based off of your opponents weaponskill.. Could you elaborate a little more, please?

EDIT: I've heard that there isnt really a thing as "over capping Parry" because of this factor...

The cap is 50%. Enemy's WS may lower your parry rate, so hitting 50% should be your minimum target.

Overcap 5-10% if you can, either way on pally 2h you're going to be looking at Mopar6-7 maybe more at low-mid RR.

22Parry +dex + Mopar7 for my pala to hit 50%

How did you calculate your percentage? And what was it based off of? If your targets Weaponskill is 2500, how does that fluctuate your percentage to parry? Is your math based off of a target dummy with 0 weaponskill?

Armagedden · February 2019

Nightmare wrote: »

Impounded wrote: »

Nightmare wrote: »

From what I have researched, it's fairly tough to cap parry, because a large portion of your % is based off of your opponents weaponskill.. Could you elaborate a little more, please?

EDIT: I've heard that there isnt really a thing as "over capping Parry" because of this factor...

The cap is 50%. Enemy's WS may lower your parry rate, so hitting 50% should be your minimum target.

Overcap 5-10% if you can, either way on pally 2h you're going to be looking at Mopar6-7 maybe more at low-mid RR.

22Parry +dex + Mopar7 for my pala to hit 50%

How did you calculate your percentage? And what was it based off of? If your targets Weaponskill is 2500, how does that fluctuate your percentage to parry? Is your math based off of a target dummy with 0 weaponskill?

I use charplan to calculate my block/parry/evade, as outdated as it is. I just get to where it says 50% and then give myself a few more levels of moparry (whatever I can afford). From what I heard, higher weaponskill classes counter your parry rate in the dexterity part of the calculation. So from what I understand is moparry is a solid number where you % parry from dex is lowered based on your opponents WS.

Who really knows though... I wouldn't lose sleep over it

Impounded · February 2019

Dex buffed x 2
x .025
Then you add a base 5%
Each skill point you have is .5%

Or this courtesy of Gaven

It's easiest to assume your dex modified parry/block rate gives no bonus after enemy weapontable(or skill) is calculated. The only exception to this is extremely high dex like 400+ like a scout may have. In other words ignore dex and enemy weaponskill. Its simpler and more accurate that way.

Best estimate VS any opponent is the normal calculation of:
BaseParry 5% + TotalSpec (spec + RR bonus + item bonus) * .5% + mastery of parry% + Mythical parry%

2h still seems to get a parry bonus of another 5% (double your base parry chance but only if you have parry spec available)

Nightmare · February 2019

@Impounded @Armagedden

Thanks guys for your input, answered alot of questions, appreciate it. Solid feedback.

EDIT: Do you guys think a certain weapon type has a higher base of Weaponskill? Or is that not a thing? Like a 2h sword vs. 2h axe/hammer ?

Impounded · February 2019

No problem, glad it could help a bit.

Armagedden · February 2019

Nightmare wrote: »

@Impounded @Armagedden

Thanks guys for your input, answered alot of questions, appreciate it. Solid feedback.

EDIT: Do you guys think a certain weapon type has a higher base of Weaponskill? Or is that not a thing? Like a 2h sword vs. 2h axe/hammer ?

Na, but I would say go thrust if you are just 2-h because its good vs mid chain, neutral to all hib, and hallowed greatsword. and use leggies vs stuff that vulnerable to thrust but also not against heavies obviously.

Edit: and you get spear of kings also.

Impounded · February 2019

Yup pretty much what Armagedden said. You won't regret going thrust.

Mace80 · February 2019

So I heard a rumor that said that if you're using a 2h elemental weapon, your WS will not be impacted by having little to no subspec nor will there be much variance at all. I've only tested it in very limited instances and didn't notice any at all.

Has anyone tested this more extensively?

Nightmare · February 2019

Armagedden wrote: »

Nightmare wrote: »

@Impounded @Armagedden

Thanks guys for your input, answered alot of questions, appreciate it. Solid feedback.

EDIT: Do you guys think a certain weapon type has a higher base of Weaponskill? Or is that not a thing? Like a 2h sword vs. 2h axe/hammer ?

Na, but I would say go thrust if you are just 2-h because its good vs mid chain, neutral to all hib, and hallowed greatsword. and use leggies vs stuff that vulnerable to thrust but also not against heavies obviously.

Edit: and you get spear of kings also.

Aw man.. I actually spec'd into Crush.. No bueno?

Impounded · February 2019

You can go whatever you want really. But I would suggest thrust with a voltaic/Hallowed/Leggies.

Muylae · February 2019

a) paladins are OP

b) they don't have enough spec points

so nerf their healing and give them more spec points so they can be better tanks....

just my opinion.

Armagedden · February 2019

Muylae wrote: »

a) paladins are OP

b) they don't have enough spec points

so nerf their healing and give them more spec points so they can be better tanks....

just my opinion.

You need to never give your advice on this game... ever

Muylae · February 2019

Armagedden wrote: »

Muylae wrote: »

a) paladins are OP

b) they don't have enough spec points

so nerf their healing and give them more spec points so they can be better tanks....

just my opinion.

You need to never give your advice on this game... ever

i've had every post and thread i posted in the last hour deleted except for this one ...

i actually think i can be objective to some degree...

Muylae · February 2019

Muylae wrote: »

Armagedden wrote: »

Muylae wrote: »

a) paladins are OP

b) they don't have enough spec points

so nerf their healing and give them more spec points so they can be better tanks....

just my opinion.

You need to never give your advice on this game... ever

i've had every post and thread i posted in the last hour deleted except for this one ...

i actually think i can be objective to some degree...

albion should be the realm with 2 heavy tanks ... even if one is some sort of a hybrid. just not the sort of OP healer tank hybrid.

Paladin - Two-Handed DPS

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