there is one class in the game that can't do damage....
give healers a charmable pet, which according to me fits completely into their background.
PAC is all about mind control.
let them charm mobs and give them some offensive capability.
PAC is all about mind control.
let them charm mobs and give them some offensive capability.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
Comments
Symfriar (Friar duh)
Symsorc (Double duh)
Sympets (Theurg)
Symmond (Arms)
Some random mids and hibs
And a pet?!!?! My lord
Character List
Youtube Channel
Twitch Channel
Templates
Alb Casters
Cabalist/Sorc/Wizard/Wizard Crescendo/Wind Theurgist/Earth Theurgist 10conversion 8pierce OR 8conversion 10pierce
Hib Casters
Mentalist/Eldritch/Enchanter/Animist/Bainshee
Mid Casters
Spiritmaster/Runemaster/Runemaster 126dex no GMoV/Bonedancer/Warlock/Warlock Set
Support
Pac Healer 25CCreduc/Aug Healer/Group Shaman/Small/Solo Shaman Set/Friar Heal 25CCreduc/Cleric Heal/Warden Heal 30CCreduc/Druid Group
Hybrids
Group VW/Group Scout/*New*Group Thane/Necro Painworking
Tanks
Group Hero
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Pretty much this. I'd be against any practical DPS spell too. Everything doesn't need to be everything. There's a ton of homogenization and role blurring as it is.
Ewer's Simple DAOC Item DB - Beta with more features coming soon!
DAOC Trophy spreadsheet
Ewer - Gimp Chimp
i was not not asking for offensive spells. (dd, dots, whatever);
i was asking for a charmable pet. a way to do damage that's in line with the class's idea. mind control and heals.
that way a healer could solo and still be nowhere near the things a mincer could do.
as it is, a standard mid group only has 6 people that can do any sort of damage. the other realms ALL have 8 people can do damage. Any group in hib and Alb have 8 people who can do damage in rvr. ok, most of the time, those classes will do other stuff, but given the right conditions, all 8 can do damage.
in mid, having 2 healers mandatory, only 6 people can do damage.
what's a mend/aug healer suposed to do when he doesn't have to heal ? he's worthless at that moment.
i do not think a healer charmable pet would make ANY difference in zerg warfare.
i think mid groups in general have way less access to pets than the other realms in solo, small man and fg fights than the other realms. sure, BD bring more pets to the scene, but that's not the same
Pets are more than DPS - they're interrupts. If you want to give them more DPS - there are other options.
I did really laugh when I read someone 'going to town' with a two handed astral weapon on a healer. I am assuming champ styles to make it look more fun. Outstanding response.
However, I think they should be given a major melee damage buff that improves hit rate and melee damage or just improve the champion level styles. Another alternative could be to give them a low delve nuke like shamans got but I feel like that card has been a bit overused.
If you want healers to get a DPS line fine, but what are they gonna give up (AOE stun and instant mez, sojo, etc?)
It may not be a class that can not do damage but it excels in every other aspect in the game. Its by far the strongest support class and has access to every sort of CC imaginable. A pet would just give it more CC power.
It can not receive any sort of enhancement in its current state without a nerf somewhere else. DPS would push them even farther to the top in a game where they are already king.
If people want to seriously talk about giving healers access to a DPS line then they need to seriously talk about nerfing and taking other things away from the class, but no one pushing for DPS seems to want to do that.
Ewer's Simple DAOC Item DB - Beta with more features coming soon!
DAOC Trophy spreadsheet
Ewer - Gimp Chimp
Your issues w/ Simons posts aside...in your opinion healers are under-powered and should be given DPS without giving anything up? You think that would be a fair and balanced class?
Ewer's Simple DAOC Item DB - Beta with more features coming soon!
DAOC Trophy spreadsheet
Ewer - Gimp Chimp
Once upon a time, it did work in rvr, but was removed as being too powerful.
It has been stated numerous times that mids, have to run two healers in group. Therefore, your stats as you will, will show that there are a higher percentage of healers playing in which to fill those roles (main cc and heals for a group). Putting that aside, why is it that every time someone suggests that healers would like xyz in which to enhance their character play (whatever comment you will), someone always says, healers have to give up something in which to even entertain the idea?
We could go back into patches where clerics received a boost to their rr5 (yes, it was totally needed as it was pretty terrible and I realize that it's not a spec line), bards received root, and the list goes on; however,not once did those classes have to 'give up' something in which to gain those abilities. They can spec a certain line, not spec a certain line and choose those abilities which would enhance their choice of play style.
Healers to give up something, just to entertain the idea, let's get rid of the self-proc that they get. Does that change the original posters thoughts behind the suggestion? That would fulfill the demand of giving up something in which to get something.
The reason I keep saying they would need to give something up is because IMO they are already a really strong class and it would be needed to keep them in balance. If I came in here saying Sorcs need xyz no one is going to say "Wow yea lets add that ability and make them super OP!" (except for sorcs).
Large sweeping changes have never gone well in terms of class balance in the history of DAOC (see necros) and so I will urge that anytime someone proposes something for a class (especially when it completely changes the possible roll of that class) balance should be considered.
Do healers lack a DPS role, sure. I'll admit that. Do they need a DPS roll added on top of their current state? Absolutely not.
Ewer's Simple DAOC Item DB - Beta with more features coming soon!
DAOC Trophy spreadsheet
Ewer - Gimp Chimp
They have all ready gave something up and it wasn't by choice, they can't never do/complete solo daily quest like everyother toon can in the game.
That's an issue w/ the new dailies. There are plenty of classes that can complain about the solo quest/solo zone (in fact there is a ranged caster complaining about the new zones recently). I'd personally like to see the "daily solo" replaced with more class-aligned goals across the board.
For example:
Healing classes (Healers, clerics, friars, etc) could be given a daily "heal for X rps and resurrect X players" quest instead of the solo one.
Ranged casters: Get X deathblows (db's your group gets don't count toward this total unlike the other daily quests)
Assassins: Perf X players (I'm sure someone could come up with something better here, its just an example).
Things of this sort but I understand that wasn't the intention of the 'solo quest' I just think it would be a better system.
Ewer's Simple DAOC Item DB - Beta with more features coming soon!
DAOC Trophy spreadsheet
Ewer - Gimp Chimp
So forcing a high spec in AUG would be a good example of "giving something up" where access to this forces you to lose things from another spec line. I'm OK with those sort of changes where it makes sense but in this case even at 39 AUG the pacification line would still be too strong.
You would have a melee sojourner with speed, castable AE stun, single target insta stun, root, insta heal, insta mez, castable ae mez, insta ae mez, heals and more.
I don't think with the way healers current spec lines are laid out you could work DPS in without making the class way too powerful. They are boarder line OP currently without DPS.
Ewer's Simple DAOC Item DB - Beta with more features coming soon!
DAOC Trophy spreadsheet
Ewer - Gimp Chimp
Because they reveal that healers are the top preforming class and don't need anything whatsoever? I have no doubt that if they showed healers were the weakest performing class you would champion the data as it backed up your narrative but numbers are stubborn things.
I like how you casually say, let's put aside the reality that the numerous roles they fill because of the numerous toys they have helps make them the most successful class in game.
People say they have to give up something because of everything they have access to. The reason other classes might not need to give up something to get something is arguably because they are underperforming and have to be brought up to par.
I hope you aren't seriously suggesting that healers lose an ability that is PVE based in exchange for a pet or other form of DPS as a balanced trade?
Their inability to complete the solo quest doesn't seem to have hindered their position as the top RP earner across all three realms.
And then druids get stun and mez? Not a rabbit hole I want to go down.
If you want dps put some of your cl points into styles.
heres a tip if you want to do DAMAGE, don't pick a character called a HEALER.. lol
Hahaha. I was thinking instant AoE Shear. LOL
It has nothing to do with over or underpowered, it has nothing to do with realm points, YOU used a 'stat' to support an argument that isn't supported by the actual information the stat provides; there are MULTIPLE other factors that are significantly more influential in Healers being at the top of MID's RP food chain, I pointed that out.... the game has been homogenized across the board <while randomly OPing and Nerfing classes>;THE ONLY CONSTANT is healers have no inherent dps of ANY kind..... I think that is wrong, but honestly have no expectations of it changing....
having a rational discussion about it is, obviously, impossible.
The ability to complete a quest (and it not just pvp quests, but I can't speak for the poster that stated this) and generating the rps are not one and the same. You basically have a something implemented in game that excludes, as I believe someone put it "the most successful class in game". If this is excluding the most successful class in the game, how many other classes are left out of the questing as well? You are eliminating the population of players of the most played character in the game. Perhaps this will generate a new discussion. However, this doesn't seem very inclusive to me, or such is the 'healers' lot in life.
There is no harm in having a discussion of what someone's opinion is, as everyone who has posted have voiced their opinions based on their observations. However, to say that one class doesn't need anything whatsoever, is shortsighted.
There are a lot of issues with the game, be it broken quest lines, class balance, realm balance, population issues, 8v8 vs solo vs zergs, the list is pretty big. One thing I do know, there are a lot of passionate people who love this game. I am not suggesting we all hug and sing a bloody song, but what I am asking is to sit back and look at it from a bigger perspective. In the list of stuff that is needed, do healers really need a damage boost? Probably not, but from what I see here, the most voiced opinions are from those that don't play the class, or even the realm in question, which speaks volumes in itself.
https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/aufnymf
Twitch Youtube Mixer
There have been lone enforcer healers. http://www.excidio.net/herald/character/y8rBYFLQeeg
Gitgud
They should give Healers a weapon line like Bards, so they could spec like a Battle Bard if they choose to.
Da fly family - 4501 4502 4503 4504 4506 4508 4509
Da spider family - 441 442 443 444 445 447
Ywain 1 Mid - Carlingford Hib - Tullamore Alb - Dalton
https://divoxutils.com/user-characters
what do you know about playing solo? 35k+ kills only like 951 solo kills.
Gitgud
Very outdated...and another lovely and helpful comment.
Cl styles, I am sure every healer has. Have you tried hitting players in actual combat? You do realize that most characters today with decent templates, can regen health faster then a healer dealing damage to them. Most weapons have been nerfed and makes this infeasible. Though give it a shot and let us know how it goes.
Listening to the people that constantly have to fight and contend with a class is equally as valuable input to a discussion like this. If only the input from one side were considered or voiced than everyone would be on here asking for an "I win" button. To be honest those that play healer haven't contributed much to this thread at all. I suspect they came here to mostly QQ (thats fine, we all need to vent sometimes) and not actually have any sort of discussion.
I"m not against DPS for healers, I'm against DPS for healers in their current spec lines given how strong those lines are and given all the other various toys they get. Adding pretty much anything on top of what healers already have would probably push them over the top. Only 1 person in this thread has even tried to show how/where DPS would fit in spec wise for the class and even then I think it would make the class far too powerful.
Ewer's Simple DAOC Item DB - Beta with more features coming soon!
DAOC Trophy spreadsheet
Ewer - Gimp Chimp
They already heal and CC - what other roles do they need to be able to fill?
I don't think it's obscene that people want to consider giving them the option for damage - but some of the ways requested seem odd.
Off the cuff ideas...
- A "stance" wherein their healing output and CC duration are severely reduced for a temporary damage boost. The reduction should last longer than the boost as an "exhaustion" style mechanic ala Arrogance charge.
- Consider giving them a weapon line, albeit requiring consideration of their new overall abilities.
- Change their base damage table upwards, requiring consideration of their new overall abilities.
Giving them castable spells and pets starts to add more utility to a class with plenty. If they want to whack **** with a hammer, give up some of what makes the class desireable in spite of their lack of DPS.
they are top rp earners because every single mid group needs two of them.
i don't have a healer.
if you tell me those stats don't look dodgy ... lol
He has videos soloing.
Times change but there are always bad players to farm regardless of class.
Other than that, af debuff necro, caba, sorc and minstrel all have pretty strong pets aswell although you never have all those 4 in one group.
Hibs... ye well pet on menta, chanter, vamp and the green con on druids which is actually quite tanky nowadays.
Mid is definitely the strongest realm for small man groups in my opinion but right now it´s struggling in 8 man for sure. That is a statement that almost the entire European 8 man community will agree on.
It works ok when I play with my Nogdar group and we have EVERYTHING up vs other top EU groups but thats only cus we have the higest average RR out of all 8 man groups in DAoC.
I don´t know if its that mid is too weak or if alb is too strong though. The only thing on hib that I question is the vamp, yellow con pet...?
To sum up: mids need to have pets on more than just SM and BD.