New keep upgrades and exploits being used to defend them.
@Carol_Broadsword OK, the upgraded keeps are great I think, it really gives a smaller group a chance to defend against a larger group. This is working well during Euro time vs Hero BG, but at the same time he can still take keeps when he gets a large BG going on the days Mid BG does not run and is able to capture the relics.
Now here is were I am seeing a problem now, it’s not with the upgraded keeps but with no realm timers. During US prime time there is not much of a Hib BG running, but as soon as you attack a keep with a relic in it you can see a huge population swing were people are switching realms and logging into these keeps defending. You can see a swing of 15% to 25% in the population bonus with in a few minutes of sieging a keep with a relic in it. I know there are roaming groups getting in maybe 2 or 3, but by the time you get in the court yard it is almost even numbers with the defenders with all the advantages.
One of two things need to happen, either realm timers (which I am sure is not an option we will get) Or just like you can’t log out of a keep that is under siege you should not be able to log into a keep under siege.
Please run this up the ladder @Carol_Broadsword because it seems the original intent of the changes are being abused now and the relics are not changing hands because of this exploit with no realm timers has caused.
Now here is were I am seeing a problem now, it’s not with the upgraded keeps but with no realm timers. During US prime time there is not much of a Hib BG running, but as soon as you attack a keep with a relic in it you can see a huge population swing were people are switching realms and logging into these keeps defending. You can see a swing of 15% to 25% in the population bonus with in a few minutes of sieging a keep with a relic in it. I know there are roaming groups getting in maybe 2 or 3, but by the time you get in the court yard it is almost even numbers with the defenders with all the advantages.
One of two things need to happen, either realm timers (which I am sure is not an option we will get) Or just like you can’t log out of a keep that is under siege you should not be able to log into a keep under siege.
Please run this up the ladder @Carol_Broadsword because it seems the original intent of the changes are being abused now and the relics are not changing hands because of this exploit with no realm timers has caused.
Comments
You see that when the siege starts we do have the larger numbers, but that changes quickly with people logging in and switching realms.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
True, but once again this is something we asked for and this is the unintended consequences of that. No perfect system exists.
The LD liability is there, but i think it should be possible to have a timer associated with such an occurrence. LD log ins are typically pretty fast especially if it is during a defense. I think what OP is suggesting is posssible. Maybe create something that would move characters out of a relic keep back into the relic towns after a 30 minute countdown.???
I'm not totally convinced it would fix the problem. Most realm jumpers/hoppers are in the initial attacking bg and jump to the defending realm to capitalize on defense opportunities.
When you are paying 16-32$ USD a month, what is the issue? Some are content with ‘realm loyalty’ and only seeing 33.3% of the content, but most are not anymore.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
I agree. Absolutely a realm timer problem. They are adamantly against such timers. I do wish they would consider some type of timer though. The idea has been tossed around many times that if you have earned RP's on X realm and switch to Y, then you have some sort of count down before you are awarded RP's on the Y realm. If you're truly in it for the fun and defense and not just the rps (yeah right), then it shouldnt be a big deal.
Who asked for this?
Yes and I never saw a system asked for that took away BP's earned fighting to replace them by BP's, which are capped, earned thru PvE --- which is essentially what you have. Making keeps harder when folks just hop anyway doesn't do anything but slightly delay the inevitable; which btw was pointed out and ignored -- yet, it has come true again.....they said they would improve RvR --- have there been improvements...by my reckoning -- NO...but to each their own.
This is perhaps the single MOST fraudulent argument in game -- yet it persists
I don't feel like the issue is that keeps can be defended. But people are logging defense toons in a relic keep and leaving them there... then flipping realms when the opportunity allows.
Just port them back to the relic town
We don't have the population to force subscribers to play one realm. However, a realm timer for NF would help prevent players from rapidly switching between realms.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Several agree. Something as short as 5 mins wouldnt be horrific. Thats enough time for a bathroom break and grabbing a drink
What I'm getting at is that the OP's suggestion that people are realm hopping to defend a keep now because they can earn alot of rp's doing defense. Apparently people decide that defending a relic yields more rp's than taking a relic. Maybe I was wrong on that. So then I said that making keeps easier to defend was asked for by the players in the forums. There are many posts from people that complained that defending a keep was too difficult when normally the BG attacking outnumbers the defenders 5 or more to 1. BS made making a defense easier with lower #'s. Now people are upset that some people log to defend instead of staying with the BG. People will go where the easiest rp's are. If they think they can earn more defending a keep vs taking a keep they will.
Would realm timers help with that? Absolutely, but mark my words, if you put in realm timers than a big portion of people are also going to be super pissed off about it and complain that they should be able to play whatever realm they want. As I said before. There is no perfect system.
It is a marginally complex issue which is why just changing door strengths was kind of silly and leads to the consequences we see now....addressing the actual problems with RvR, which I maintain have been the fluidity of the population and relative disparities at specific times, we are left with what we have ---- and are even more compounded with other <BP for example> changes
realm timers are needed---
Now you see the difficulty BS has to juggle.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Amen!! Exactly! Everyone posting in this thread for the most part are pro-realm timers. However, if and when that change ever happens, mark my words, there will be thread after thread about how realm timers upset some other subset of players. Just deal with it. People will switch realms, and even if you implement realm timers what stops a person with 2-3 accounts from just switching realms to another account? If you say they need to make it ISP based then what about when multiple people play in the house and one wants to play Mid while another wants to play Hib? This is not a simple thing to fix or adjust w/out upsetting alot of people.
Again, what stops players w/ multiple accounts from still switching?
Someone wants to log out of Mid or Alb to defend a relic in Hib doesn't bother me in the least.
Realm timers? tch tch
Exploits? Pfft
Folks with multiple accounts logging into one realm one one acct. and another realm with the other, etc., wouldn't be affected now, would they?
And you don`t get players back with the current system, ppl are upset about this population swings, you`ll notive that very soon.
Nonsense
a) everyone can see a siege and switch on a dime (make it like cups/trees/hammers - so that only 2 realms can see)
b) reduce (quantity) of insta porting and put a (timer) on group port
- reduced quantity = more predictable routes
- timer on group port = groups can't respond on a dime to defend, or port back and swap realms.
Lets not forget only a few years ago (prior to cups/hammers/trees returning to teh game), Zergs were crystal titaning guards and were well into the siege before any notification.
It's the problem of the game; the fact that they were taken when no one is on to defend and Bonuses in Alb/Mid were in the 70's, it's pathetic to watch % switch in a legit retake.
As to Tald's points -- porting isn't the issue and would hurt the legitimate defenders, though your (a) point I understand, I am not sure it makes a difference
Well if variable X can't change, maybe we can discuss variables, A B C to find a middle point to see what works for both sides.
I can’t even...
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
While this is a valid point, it doesn't address an army logging into the relic keep from switching realms.
Perhaps some kind of mechanic can be introduced where players switching realms can not earn RP bonuses for 30 minutes to an hour after having earned 1 realm point in the prior realm. They are free to earn RPS normally through actions such as killing, healing, rezzing, etc. but RP bonuses are in effect on a cool down of sorts. This might reduce instances of realm switching if players know they aren't going to benefit from bonuses for a short period of time.
Hrmm, gotta work on that comprehension.....
Because the swaping, paying customers make it a two way zerg, your logic is selftrumpish....
Thank you.
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