Personal direct question. How many nights in a row can you log on join a BG take 2 keeps and all of EV and run laps for 4 hours, make 20k rps total, and log before you are looking for a new game? Where do you draw that line?
I did answer that question, and that was the only question you asked me. I said I don't zerg. So the answer would be ZERO. Also, you can play however you want man. Nobody has stopped you from doing 8 man. You play in a shitty time zone when action is super slow. Its after most American players are heading to bed and before most Euros hop on. I get it. It sucks. 8 mans exist, even at Pacific times. Creating an arena doesn't "allow" you to be able to 8 man. It just makes it so action is easier and not getting added on as much. Play whichever "format" you want, but accept that not all style of play are equally productive depending on the time of day. During Euro times when Herorius is running its harder for me to solo then when it is later at night. Does that mean they should make a solo arena area for me?
@RonELuvv I said I do play US Prime several times. I start my group at 8pm est as that is when most of my group can easily login, tried 7:30 and had many issues with anyone logging on. Its the same time the MID BG starts. You do have an area and a way to play your desired way to play, and I agree the Hero zerg also kills action the same way the US Primte BG kills action.
If you answer is truley Zero, then what are you even doing in this conversation? If you absolutley never ever zerg then this is no business of yours. If anything you should be helping me defend my position because it will be less 8 mans rolling over the solo zones and areas, and stealth zergs.
But you do you bud. Glad you are enjoying this game.
The reason I joined the conversation is because I feel removing any players from frontiers to allow arena stylea of fights would be a detriment to the server. I dont zerg and I don't 8 man, but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the matter. People complain abouy the lack of population in frontiers. Making an arena hurts that. It doesn't help it. My personal play styles may be easier to find action and have zones catered to helping solo's but it all still occurs on frontiers. An arena does not. If we get more people into frontiers there should theoretically have more 8 mans to fight.
Edit: Sorry I misunderstood when you said you played PT I thought you meant pacific time, which I know is extra dead. My bad.
The reason I joined the conversation is because I feel removing any players from frontiers to allow arena stylea of fights would be a detriment to the server. I dont zerg and I don't 8 man, but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the matter. People complain abouy the lack of population in frontiers. Making an arena hurts that. It doesn't help it. My personal play styles may be easier to find action and have zones catered to helping solo's but it all still occurs on frontiers. An arena does not. If we get more people into frontiers there should theoretically have more 8 mans to fight.
Edit: Sorry I misunderstood when you said you played PT I thought you meant pacific time, which I know is extra dead. My bad.
I honestly think that with the current way EV works, more population could do more harm than good to that particular zone. I just really love the idea of a zone that would be the same as we did in the hib loop project Camlann back in the days that had something like 30 groups on the EU servers signing up to do 8vs8. https://forums.freddyshouse.com/threads/project-camlann.200048/
I´m linking this thread from Project Camlann idea back in 2006 just to show you that even here the majority of the population voted against the idea. This is because the majority do not play 8vs8, still the event could get as much as 30 groups. This was actually the time when action had started to die out on the EU servers so even though DAoC had a higher player pool back then, it was nowhere close to its golden era.
The hib loop 8vs8 in Camlann didn´t last for super long for various reasons but the time it lasted was one of my most fun memories of DAoC and the idea was heavily appreciated from the EU community. Now of course there are no PvP servers left, and I think that´s a good thing because we don´t want to spread out the pop to different servers. However, being able to play in an FFA zone where your group are your only allies is all it takes to bring this amazing experience back to the minority that actually enjoys group vs group action.
@RonELuvv The point your missing, is that people are leaving NF, either way. This is a way to at least accounts remaining active from the 8v8 community. I've already had to replace almost my entire group twice to people leaving because they are sick of our options to fight are 8vZ, troll solo area, or see nothing for 45-hour, or voltron up and become Zergers ourselves. Its just frustrating to the point where I'm about to cancel my 3 accounts as well. When I first resubbed I had about 4 people that were going to be fresh brand new players to the game. Talked with them while we watched some streams together so they could an idea. Biggest turn off was complication of game, time investment, and $15/mo, and it looks like no competition because its a numbers game, whoever has bigger numbers loses and there is no competitive reason to get this game, and for the money, there are other games.
Now the first 2 reasons we can do nothing about, for a brand new player, there is a lot to learn that we all take for granted, and that initial time investment to leveling a bit, then maybe chose the wrong char for your playstyle so start over etc. Thats going to happen. But the last couple things are within BS's ability to do something about.
I have explained how my/JTT's idea can still put potential players in the frontiers, by not giving RPs, and a single daily quest for those RPS, incentivises those players to go back out there, Only the people playing Soley for the fight, don't care about rps, will remain in that arena for longer than the quest takes. I believe there will be a mix, and I believe the action in the Frontiers will hold impact on some groups to go out there once quest is complete.
You are welcome to disagree with this, as is any other human being is allowed to have their opinion, but I will pose this question.
Whats you idea to bring population back to the game? Continuing to incentivise Zerging? Because thats not working , but at least that idea is being tried, our 8v8 ideas don't even get F'ing considered. Just take a min to soak that in, that I give $50/month for 3 accounts and get told my opinion doesn't matter.
@Staticc
After rethinking your idea .....BS should give your idea a try. If it helps increasing the population, why not.
Not much players left already that BS could loose with trying new things.
But...and thats the but.... after 1.125 and after going f2p.
And if you get something you`ll loose something.
If a group larger than 2 goes to the so called solo-spots they`ll loose all their buffs instant. No rebuff possible.
If the 8v8 ppl get an arena like area, the solo players should have a place where they`re not getting steamrolled by smallgroups or fg`s.
For the record @Staticc, I never said your opinion didn't matter. I posed very simple and straight forward issues that I had with making an 8 vs 8 arena. I'm not going to reiterate them for the 10th time. Simply put, I don't think doing this fixes the population problem in frontiers. Would it bring new subscribers? Possibly, but it would certainly not fix or help the population problem in frontiers.
playing in a time zone where there are few people sucks i guess.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
I see you are passionate about your idea but it will never work. In US Prime you have primarily 2 irc groups. And maybe 3 other groups tops that like to run 8man. 1. You will just take people from the frontiers for a short period of time. Or 2. People will not go because the rps are less.
Perfect examples,. People try to finish all their quest on one realm just to switch realms and get quest done. Also with this midsummer event 8 man's can roam EV just like when it was Argoman. But we are roaming the areas where the rps are greatest.
You asking to implement a unique pvp arena that has a player limit . Yet they cant even implement a quest or fix a bugg because of the old code system..
But sure. No rp's make everyone RR10 and randomgenerator on RA's for every class when entering.
OR a different Arena point system that dosn't effect RVR. But other games has this and is free to play so why just not play them instead?
Dont really understand how you can compare an "instant" action area and gain rp's and roaming in the whole frontier trying to catch som equal action and not get steamrolled by the 2fg+.
The reason I joined the conversation is because I feel removing any players from frontiers to allow arena stylea of fights would be a detriment to the server.
man when will you UNDERSTAND, the ppl who dont like this playstyle atm (player vs door) dont play anymore! the population is already splited, ppl who play pvd and ppl who play other games.
everyone i know is bored to roam in ev or where ever and search for 97% of their time for some fights
i love daoc but dont play it anymore, i dont like 8man, i dont like player vs door, i dont like outnumbering...
just give us a arena, and lot of players will return.
sure, hundred, thousand players will return because there is a arena with daily 20-25k rp as a reward and nothing else. ( as suggested in this thread )
If you were not deaf, blind [edited] within the last 17 years you should know what would happen next.
- we want rp`s for each kill
- we want more bp`s that we can buy crafting stuff
- we want more gold for potions, etcetc
- nerf class x, nerf class y ... too op`s in arena
- nerf ra x, nerf ra y
- no classes like xxx or yyyy or hhhh allowed in the arena
If the numbers of arena interested players are dwingling after the first hype
- BS...force players to join the arena, we need more players there
So what the other option is to giving us an arena is to not even try? Is that What I'm picking up here? The game is losing accounts daily, and the answer is to keep doing what you are doing? Join zerg or don't play? And even then Biggest zerg is the only one that wins fights? How long does all of the above posters think that is viable, before everyone logs in the morning and Join Hero zerg and see Alb/Mid at 100% bonus, and never fight anything, then log in Mid and join Xyro zerg and see the Hib/Alb at 100% bonus and fight nothing. Literally ever. How long do accounts stay active at that point?
Well, the game atm has so many problems, i don`t even know where to start.
The current event is clearly a zerg-event, it will not work without many players within the dragon keep zone.
But it is fun, solo, duo, small, zerg etc...
So the ppl that try to 8v8 or run a 8 searching for equal fights could use ev now, but they don`t do.
Seems rp`s are more a factor than fair fights, mhm?
That our Cow is breaking ports twice a day and albs/mids have to go over safeport or switch realms is more a problem, imho.
I agree and do not dispute the following:
-Current event is 100% Zerg incentive
-Breaking ports hurts access to fighting at above mentioned keeps
-Zergs are in fact hanging out at/around the target keep
-I still run laps around the island almost every day since the event and only see 1-2 mid groups, Baby Alb group and a 2 FGA mini zerg on the island at best.
That being said, the current event incentivises pulling all action to the target keep that biggest zerg wins mentality, is in fact winning. It draws these small man/8's in because we don't see anything for 45 min so F'it lets go check around the keep, and Bang, it feels like every logged in on X Realm with biggest pop is there, just camping that keep.
This event, is exactly why we need an arena. When the zerg is focused on a target (Something the mids aren't getting, they just roam the island for hours after opening a hib port) all the side 8v8 action is to spread out, because BS has ran them off. Bring in a target 8v8 place, arena, BG, island, w/e, that is for 8v8's, and Watch pop at least stop declining.
@Stoertebecker you said it yourself, you don't even know where to start. Well everything starts somewhere, why not start here?
I think there may be other, not so complicated options. Maybe a millionaire playing daoc buying the license?
One option could be to find a compromise reintroducing a realm switch timer. I was told that many ppl don`t like a realm switch timer, but i know that many ppl want a realm switch timer, at least at primetime (6pm -11pm). Not for long, maybe 1-2h at primetime.
And it`s all about number of players. With more players (not just 50 or 100) the action would spread out.
As i read the last producers newsletter (where they announced the f2p delay into first half of 2019) i thought *Oh, they think they have all time of the world*... which they don`t have, imho.
I can imagine that it is complicated stuff, but that would be my main target, no race/namechange, no arena, just f2p related stuff. If you can`t code a automatic namechange, do it by hand for 5-10$.
sure, hundred, thousand players will return because there is a arena with daily 20-25k rp as a reward and nothing else. ( as suggested in this thread )
If you were not deaf, blind [edited] within the last 17 years you should know what would happen next.
- we want rp`s for each kill
- we want more bp`s that we can buy crafting stuff
- we want more gold for potions, etcetc
- nerf class x, nerf class y ... too op`s in arena
- nerf ra x, nerf ra y
- no classes like xxx or yyyy or hhhh allowed in the arena
If the numbers of arena interested players are dwingling after the first hype
- BS...force players to join the arena, we need more players there
Exactly that will happen
You forgot special elite items for being great in their safe space.
Yes, this is exactly what happens - then, you have crying arena pillar humpers wanting changes when the FotM rolled their group.
Think of (or remember) the queues - if they did this, to even keep action in actual RVR alive - it would have to be very limited because it's pretty dead as is especially US PT after 7pm - as much as I hate to say it.
It works in "other games" because what little PvP they have sux and they're tired of raiding for hours on end.
S-Priest, Paladin, DK... been there, done that and actually have the Merloco's Tacos t-shirt.
Flight of fancy?
They could give you an 8v8 obby - and a town or maybe a portal to some random faraway place on a map no one in their right mind but 8mans would go.... like Albion .... or Azeroth.
Roam there looking for your 8v8.
Maybe ask for a warning when the BG shows up, 3+ groups? even if they are stealthed .. you suddenly hear the cadence of a battle song rising in the distance. Time to move on and go back through the obby port to a new destination.
The reality?
-So you are in NF.. in queue, get the pop - if you played other games you know how you need to get out of combat to take it - and you have X # seconds, because the absolute hissy fit over pulling an entire group out of combat (without crashing the server or corrupting the character) and having them vanish into thin air is NOT going to happen haha! .. Then either only half the group goes into the arena because you got jumped, someone needed another beer, or you couldn't kill off Team Awesome in time so you re-queue (which is then bugged and you have to URLLDR123BBQ to fix it) OR you sit in NF in Tref, Godor whatever ... and do nothing. So you have all these 8mans waiting on the queue so they don't miss out - Zero RPS. Sooooo then they complain about the queue times and lack of RPs ...
When it comes down to it .. I don't think the game could really handle it.
Do I zerg? yes
Do I 8man? - yes
Do I duo/tro? - yes
Do I solo? - No, because I get bored and I love my guilds
Would I agree to a realm timer? yes
People are currently starved for RPs because the population is already so small - so ya they are going to chase the 8mans. One fg becomes 1+ a sidecar because the other group has 2 groups etc .. add in how ridiculously out of balance classes right now ((are we still waiting for another fix? 2yrs ago next month BS said we would be fixing skalds "soon" ya, still waiting but don't go off in a tangent on my skald comment - stay on topic)) and voila - welcome to the current version of DAoC.
Put those 8mans sitting and doing nothing while in queue or in their arena- because that is 16 now pulled from NF - and it cuts the NF population down even worse. Granted - if we had a healthy population an arena system wouldn't make a difference. Great suggestion for those who still enjoy PvP in a box, but. at this time, we cannot sustain it - and how can I justify saying that? Because the only way to pull it off would be to allow you to go up against your own realm depending on the time of day.
@Ssavii Hmm not sure if it´s worth bothering replying to all your opinions and predictions here because this thread already kinda moved away from arena to having a zone that you port into that works like the removed PvP servers used to work. Meaning everyone outside your group will be enemies so zerging will be impossible. This zone would be as big as any of the 13 frontier zones. I feel your post is very directed towards the WoW type of arena which may or may not be a good idea.
By the way this 8vs8 hib loop project thing was not only done on EU servers Camlann but also on the US server mordred. Here is a video of the US 8vs8 hib loop project :
These projects were both doomed to fail in the end however since this was at the "full TOA time" meaning people had to go through all the ML raids, arti scroll farming, master, CL and arti lvling and so on to finish their characters. Meaning if one group had a setup that didnt work out they didn´t really have much of a choice. They could choose between quitting or staying with their failed setup.
This is why I would like it to just be a huge instanced zone that you port in to that works like these projects worked but you will still use your regular Ywain characters. Im pretty sure that this is something that would have a huge chance of getting some returning 8vs8 players to the game. Right now most returning players I run into are those who prefer the zerg action and when speaking to some of the old 8 man players, they seem confident that the 8vs8 action is over on live.
@Ssavii The intent is for 8v8 action, because I'm getting pretty sick of seeing what happened last night when Hib had 40% and Alb 40% at 11pm CST and then Pillager and Cdump hit us with 3 FG's, absolutly no reason for that. If that is going to be the maintained status of RvR, then I will cancel my subs, just like many of my friends have. If I can't get anything that resembles a fair fight, then niether of us will get RP's because the Hib bonus will jump up another 4-5% with 1 less group running.
Yeah the Mid BG is self-destructive. They will single handily destroy population M-Th because they continually run 3-5 FG's as often as they can and the population is already so low that it cannot be countered outside of Weekend prime (at best).
3-5 fgs? What kind of mini zergs are you running into? The Anna and Herorius zerg always has 70-100 players in EU time as far as I know, now that´s a zerg ;P
Just accept that 8v8 is dead and move on. I also like the logical leap from "they don't want to make an 8v8 arena, so that MUST mean they want us to outright leave."
No. Them not doing something to cater to your niche requirements does not mean they want you to leave. You just refuse to adapt, even if adapt means speaking with your wallet and quitting.
My group recently quit because like you, we were tired of the quality of action and got bored. We spoke with our subs. You can sit here crowing on the forums until you're blue in the face, but the glory days are over. Get over it.
@Chamie The 3-5 FG's is what we see regularly, its can/has/does spike to 7-9 FG's as well, just kind of depends.
@elninost0rm That you for you input. But I will not simply roll over and give up. I love this game, and what it can be, and simply asking if my voice matters to BS, my voice and the voice of other like minded people. If @John_Broadsword will answer my direct question with a direct answer, that then puts the decision squarely back on my shoulders if I want to continue here and accept those rules, or maybe continue somewhere else. But I do hold the right to ask about the product and intentions as I am a customer.
@elninost0rm well that was sort of the point with the post. 8vs8 roaming is dead cus of the action (only zergers left in DAoC) and only way to get good fights nowadays is set fights so might aswell have an arena for it.
Realistically i think the easiest way to solve the population woes and increase action for all is to create a BG thats FFA (ie. mordred) that doesn't allow Battlegroups (ie. zergs) to function.... ie. when you zone in, its max of 8, but anyone can join the bg and yea. This will prevent blatant set fights/rp farming, but will also be policed by the community themselves. It doesn't hurt zergers, they can still do seiges/etc, but provides an opportunity for 8man, small man, and solo to get more action.
I think arenas are just simply a bad idea, but i understand the attraction. A BG that provides more action via the FFA functionality creates more action across the board and caters to playstyles that most think are being ruined by larger numbers.
ymmv, but i feel like this is reasonable an a equal ground solution.
@John_Broadsword Still looking for a direct answer to my question John. It is part of your companies mission statement that you communicate, engage, and respond with your community. Please just tell us if you want to 8v8 community here or not.
@John_Broadsword I'm not letting this post die, like my question on Bainshee forums that took over a month to get answered. The fact that a DAoC Remix of all about that bass can get so much attention but can't answer basic questions regaurding the actual gameplay is frustrating literally beyond description.
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Directly pulled from your web page where Ultima Online is your showcased as your featured product.
All I get from this thread is “we want more cannnon fodder pugs for even fights” but it’s usually only even in numbers as from your posts I can only imagine you perform better than at least 90% of the population currently playing.
I also like the posts about how the zergs only roam ev looking for 8 mans. This is laughable and would be pointless as there would be 300 speedwarps dropped and sos popped and no one would get to you even if it was true. Very seldomly have I see a Zerg leader not say leave that 8 man, were chasing down a ton more, or pull off we won’t catch them. I’m not sure what zergs you’re talking about that solely target 8 mans and chase for zones. The ones I have joined in the past year and a half since being back have maybe a handful of times chased certain 8 mans as they are elitist asses that most of the population can’t stand.
The 8 man focus from what I have been told during the Kujii era is what ruined population to begin with, although I could be wrong as I was not around for 10 years. When I left 10 years ago it was a healthy population when the first clustering occurred and a healthy mix of playstyles, obviously population has taken a huge hit and now I think BS is literally looking for a miracle all the while trying to keep multiple playstyles happy in order to keep what they can for as long as they can. Where they failed is with the ridiculous class changes and seemingly thoughtless gear additions in terms of attainability and how they are almost required in order to compete.
I also like the posts about how the zergs only roam ev looking for 8 mans. This is laughable and would be pointless as there would be 300 speedwarps dropped and sos popped and no one would get to you even if it was true. Very seldomly have I see a Zerg leader not say leave that 8 man, were chasing down a ton more, or pull off we won’t catch them. I’m not sure what zergs you’re talking about that solely target 8 mans and chase for zones. The ones I have joined in the past year and a half since being back have maybe a handful of times chased certain 8 mans as they are elitist asses that most of the population can’t stand.
Sorry, that is not true. At least Hero`s zerg is trying to get each 8 that cross the way. It`s a standard situation how Hero`s zerg is going to wipe. Chasing a 8 man, zerg thinned out and Anna from comes from behind, voila.
And no, they did not learn.....
Don’t bother as I’m sure it does happen, the same as when small mans Get chased by 8 mans and solos chased by everything. It is I’m sure not the main intent, but when an enemy crosses your path they die. EV isn’t that large so I’m sure if you’re running around skirting the Zerg you will eventually get run over. If you cannot avoid the Zerg using lagdar and map swords then I can’t help you. I know when I solo I’m always using region chat to say where I see a Zerg and where they are and tons of others do as well, I guess whatever realm and time you play no one does that either.
@BurkleyRIP Okay so in 2 posts you have 2 differing statements:
Zergs don't chase 8 mans
then Zergs do kill 8 mans.
Please make a desicion. Then we can discuss this.
The zergs do chase, I never said they hunt soley 8 mans, but they can and do chase accross zoneS (plural) sometimes.
And no I'm not asking for cannon fodder to the 8 mans. We have made a direct request to place a specified area, that is opt'ed into by entering, in which 8v8 is the focal point. Again, this is a community developed play style that emerged in the very early stage of this game almost 2 decades ago that many enjoy, but is problematic to actually get. Dodge zerg, find where the other 8 mans are, then find a suitable hit location, and hope the fight doesn't get jammed. This leads to a lot of setup fights at particular locations, to which I am also not a fan of, I enjoy the hunt and positioning of a good hit, I have both blindside hit, and been blindside hit in fights, thats part of the tactical part of the fight. How your group recovers or folds.
The only thing the current event has done is remove the zerg from the island for a little bit, still many zergs roam the island. I think most of the 8 mans would agree to go ahead and use the island for movement purposes, we can dodge that, take KM and then move on to your target. But yes, the mid zerg, nightly, will just open a port in Hib, and then sit on the island for hours.
Over the last month, I have went out of my way to not chase solo's, not go to solo zone, and it has cost my group more than anything. Literally had a BD that was trying to add a fight the other day, we finished killing, killed the BD pets, mezzed him and started to run away leaving him so he could get the hint that we would let him live as a solo at MMG. We get hit as leaving and the little guy added in the fight again, then the zerg poured thru MMG and rolled us.
That is a nightly situation, if not hourly, that has me frustrated. and why we are asking for a space to enjoy the game as we choose, just as you want to enjoy the game as your choose.
@Carol_Broadsword I appreciate the response Carol, but this is one I need from the horses mouth. He has responded to other inquires here and directly responded to me before publicly, I feel strongly enough about this one that I asked the direct answer to the guy in charge, and would respect a straight answer back, directly from him.
I’m pretty sure he wants any and all subs, it’s a business. I don’t think he would be willing to waste the time and resources it would take to make 8 mans happy though, as they generally always feel entitled and have something that needs changing to make them happy again.
if you put in "Arenas" you stand to alienate part of your existing playerbase and will need to start balancing around 8maning. Thats never a good idea tbh. Keep it how it is.
i just can say me and my friends (one of them got a statue in capital city) just play 2-4 man-grp
we are bored to death to roam for 1hour and find no enemys.
noone of us play since months.
we would instant return if broadsword makes faster action possible.
I’m pretty sure he wants any and all subs, it’s a business. I don’t think he would be willing to waste the time and resources it would take to make 8 mans happy though, as they generally always feel entitled and have something that needs changing to make them happy again.
I mean its hard to compare since we come from very different servers from back in the days. I think the statement that 8 mans have always been complaining about something is not entirely correct though. Sure there have been problems and as stated in this thread these problems became huge enough to make a massive Camlann project to bring more action at one point.
I wouldnt see the problem that was back then as something that people addressed as an issue with how the game is made. I mean we didnt have zergs roaming agramon all day looking for 8 mans, zergs stayed in main lands and went for keeps. The two playstyles didn´t collide in the same way. Of course you would sometimes run into a zerg and die but it wouldnt be every day life to try to run away from the zerg.
Two differences were very big back then. Agramon was "effectively bigger" which is of course both positive and negative. It´s positive to have it huge in the way that it becomes less attractive for zergs to roam it but the non full group action such as smallie action and so on becomes non existant. To sum it up, agramon was the perfect area for set groups to go in the evening to fight eachother without having to do set up fights. Meaning while the community was big enough, it allowed for varied action AKA 8vs8 but not same group over and over again.
Nowadays zerging is way more rewarding for RPs than it has ever been due to insane bonus on keep defense / take and quests. In fact even as 8 man most of the RPs we make these days are from keep fights.
Not to mention zergs allow for a much wider range of classes. How often do you see reavers/tics/thanes/maulers etc in effective 8 mans. There are plenty of other classes people enjoy playing that just aren’t as effective in 8 vs 8 as they are in bg warfare. Thanks are awesome for we interupts in the bg’s but in an 8 man there are plenty of other classes that can outperform and contribute more to the group.
I agree that zerging is a lot more rewarding now than ever, however I'll politley disagree you here Chamie, My groups are rarely at keeps and rarely complete that mission and still do just fine, as I mentioned earlier compared to zerging RP's. Which for the record, I am under the assumtion as to what the measuring stick for a "good day" is. I personally measure is k/d, not IRS, but actual k/d. RP's and IRS is associated, but flawed and inflated with the quests, I'm satisfied with any day that I can end at 10:1. Thats on average spliting fights with groups. Kill a group, kill 2 from the next and die, I think a pretty fair estimate.Above that mark I consider a good day, when I hit 30:1 I'm having a great time, less than that and its not so much.
But if there is some other measurement by which the masses judge a good day in RvR, like, taking 6 keeps without dieing once is considered a good day, please feel free to enlighten me.
I think everyone has their own way of measuring a successful day. It’s very hard to pinpoint one and measure all against it. Sometimes I’ll get a ton of deathblows and consider it a good day. Some days I’ll finish with 100k irs and think it was successful. Days I do not feel successful are when fights are crappy and few and far between. Then I log and watch tv or do something else.
Comments
I did answer that question, and that was the only question you asked me. I said I don't zerg. So the answer would be ZERO. Also, you can play however you want man. Nobody has stopped you from doing 8 man. You play in a shitty time zone when action is super slow. Its after most American players are heading to bed and before most Euros hop on. I get it. It sucks. 8 mans exist, even at Pacific times. Creating an arena doesn't "allow" you to be able to 8 man. It just makes it so action is easier and not getting added on as much. Play whichever "format" you want, but accept that not all style of play are equally productive depending on the time of day. During Euro times when Herorius is running its harder for me to solo then when it is later at night. Does that mean they should make a solo arena area for me?
If you answer is truley Zero, then what are you even doing in this conversation? If you absolutley never ever zerg then this is no business of yours. If anything you should be helping me defend my position because it will be less 8 mans rolling over the solo zones and areas, and stealth zergs.
But you do you bud. Glad you are enjoying this game.
Edit: Sorry I misunderstood when you said you played PT I thought you meant pacific time, which I know is extra dead. My bad.
I honestly think that with the current way EV works, more population could do more harm than good to that particular zone. I just really love the idea of a zone that would be the same as we did in the hib loop project Camlann back in the days that had something like 30 groups on the EU servers signing up to do 8vs8.
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/threads/project-camlann.200048/
I´m linking this thread from Project Camlann idea back in 2006 just to show you that even here the majority of the population voted against the idea. This is because the majority do not play 8vs8, still the event could get as much as 30 groups. This was actually the time when action had started to die out on the EU servers so even though DAoC had a higher player pool back then, it was nowhere close to its golden era.
The hib loop 8vs8 in Camlann didn´t last for super long for various reasons but the time it lasted was one of my most fun memories of DAoC and the idea was heavily appreciated from the EU community. Now of course there are no PvP servers left, and I think that´s a good thing because we don´t want to spread out the pop to different servers. However, being able to play in an FFA zone where your group are your only allies is all it takes to bring this amazing experience back to the minority that actually enjoys group vs group action.
Now the first 2 reasons we can do nothing about, for a brand new player, there is a lot to learn that we all take for granted, and that initial time investment to leveling a bit, then maybe chose the wrong char for your playstyle so start over etc. Thats going to happen. But the last couple things are within BS's ability to do something about.
I have explained how my/JTT's idea can still put potential players in the frontiers, by not giving RPs, and a single daily quest for those RPS, incentivises those players to go back out there, Only the people playing Soley for the fight, don't care about rps, will remain in that arena for longer than the quest takes. I believe there will be a mix, and I believe the action in the Frontiers will hold impact on some groups to go out there once quest is complete.
You are welcome to disagree with this, as is any other human being is allowed to have their opinion, but I will pose this question.
Whats you idea to bring population back to the game? Continuing to incentivise Zerging? Because thats not working , but at least that idea is being tried, our 8v8 ideas don't even get F'ing considered. Just take a min to soak that in, that I give $50/month for 3 accounts and get told my opinion doesn't matter.
After rethinking your idea .....BS should give your idea a try. If it helps increasing the population, why not.
Not much players left already that BS could loose with trying new things.
But...and thats the but.... after 1.125 and after going f2p.
And if you get something you`ll loose something.
If a group larger than 2 goes to the so called solo-spots they`ll loose all their buffs instant. No rebuff possible.
If the 8v8 ppl get an arena like area, the solo players should have a place where they`re not getting steamrolled by smallgroups or fg`s.
And that's exactly what I'm getting at. Never been tried, and nothing left to lose.
Perfect examples,. People try to finish all their quest on one realm just to switch realms and get quest done. Also with this midsummer event 8 man's can roam EV just like when it was Argoman. But we are roaming the areas where the rps are greatest.
But sure. No rp's make everyone RR10 and randomgenerator on RA's for every class when entering.
OR a different Arena point system that dosn't effect RVR. But other games has this and is free to play so why just not play them instead?
Dont really understand how you can compare an "instant" action area and gain rp's and roaming in the whole frontier trying to catch som equal action and not get steamrolled by the 2fg+.
everyone i know is bored to roam in ev or where ever and search for 97% of their time for some fights
i love daoc but dont play it anymore, i dont like 8man, i dont like player vs door, i dont like outnumbering...
just give us a arena, and lot of players will return.
If you were not deaf, blind [edited] within the last 17 years you should know what would happen next.
- we want rp`s for each kill
- we want more bp`s that we can buy crafting stuff
- we want more gold for potions, etcetc
- nerf class x, nerf class y ... too op`s in arena
- nerf ra x, nerf ra y
- no classes like xxx or yyyy or hhhh allowed in the arena
If the numbers of arena interested players are dwingling after the first hype
- BS...force players to join the arena, we need more players there
Exactly that will happen
The current event is clearly a zerg-event, it will not work without many players within the dragon keep zone.
But it is fun, solo, duo, small, zerg etc...
So the ppl that try to 8v8 or run a 8 searching for equal fights could use ev now, but they don`t do.
Seems rp`s are more a factor than fair fights, mhm?
That our Cow is breaking ports twice a day and albs/mids have to go over safeport or switch realms is more a problem, imho.
-Current event is 100% Zerg incentive
-Breaking ports hurts access to fighting at above mentioned keeps
-Zergs are in fact hanging out at/around the target keep
-I still run laps around the island almost every day since the event and only see 1-2 mid groups, Baby Alb group and a 2 FGA mini zerg on the island at best.
That being said, the current event incentivises pulling all action to the target keep that biggest zerg wins mentality, is in fact winning. It draws these small man/8's in because we don't see anything for 45 min so F'it lets go check around the keep, and Bang, it feels like every logged in on X Realm with biggest pop is there, just camping that keep.
This event, is exactly why we need an arena. When the zerg is focused on a target (Something the mids aren't getting, they just roam the island for hours after opening a hib port) all the side 8v8 action is to spread out, because BS has ran them off. Bring in a target 8v8 place, arena, BG, island, w/e, that is for 8v8's, and Watch pop at least stop declining.
@Stoertebecker you said it yourself, you don't even know where to start. Well everything starts somewhere, why not start here?
I think there may be other, not so complicated options. Maybe a millionaire playing daoc buying the license?
One option could be to find a compromise reintroducing a realm switch timer. I was told that many ppl don`t like a realm switch timer, but i know that many ppl want a realm switch timer, at least at primetime (6pm -11pm). Not for long, maybe 1-2h at primetime.
And it`s all about number of players. With more players (not just 50 or 100) the action would spread out.
As i read the last producers newsletter (where they announced the f2p delay into first half of 2019) i thought *Oh, they think they have all time of the world*... which they don`t have, imho.
I can imagine that it is complicated stuff, but that would be my main target, no race/namechange, no arena, just f2p related stuff. If you can`t code a automatic namechange, do it by hand for 5-10$.
You forgot special elite items for being great in their safe space.
Yes, this is exactly what happens - then, you have crying arena pillar humpers wanting changes when the FotM rolled their group.
Think of (or remember) the queues - if they did this, to even keep action in actual RVR alive - it would have to be very limited because it's pretty dead as is especially US PT after 7pm - as much as I hate to say it.
It works in "other games" because what little PvP they have sux and they're tired of raiding for hours on end.
S-Priest, Paladin, DK... been there, done that and actually have the Merloco's Tacos t-shirt.
Flight of fancy?
They could give you an 8v8 obby - and a town or maybe a portal to some random faraway place on a map no one in their right mind but 8mans would go.... like Albion .... or Azeroth.
Roam there looking for your 8v8.
Maybe ask for a warning when the BG shows up, 3+ groups? even if they are stealthed .. you suddenly hear the cadence of a battle song rising in the distance. Time to move on and go back through the obby port to a new destination.
The reality?
-So you are in NF.. in queue, get the pop - if you played other games you know how you need to get out of combat to take it - and you have X # seconds, because the absolute hissy fit over pulling an entire group out of combat (without crashing the server or corrupting the character) and having them vanish into thin air is NOT going to happen haha! .. Then either only half the group goes into the arena because you got jumped, someone needed another beer, or you couldn't kill off Team Awesome in time so you re-queue (which is then bugged and you have to URLLDR123BBQ to fix it) OR you sit in NF in Tref, Godor whatever ... and do nothing. So you have all these 8mans waiting on the queue so they don't miss out - Zero RPS. Sooooo then they complain about the queue times and lack of RPs ...
When it comes down to it .. I don't think the game could really handle it.
Do I zerg? yes
Do I 8man? - yes
Do I duo/tro? - yes
Do I solo? - No, because I get bored and I love my guilds
Would I agree to a realm timer? yes
People are currently starved for RPs because the population is already so small - so ya they are going to chase the 8mans. One fg becomes 1+ a sidecar because the other group has 2 groups etc .. add in how ridiculously out of balance classes right now ((are we still waiting for another fix? 2yrs ago next month BS said we would be fixing skalds "soon" ya, still waiting but don't go off in a tangent on my skald comment - stay on topic)) and voila - welcome to the current version of DAoC.
Put those 8mans sitting and doing nothing while in queue or in their arena- because that is 16 now pulled from NF - and it cuts the NF population down even worse. Granted - if we had a healthy population an arena system wouldn't make a difference. Great suggestion for those who still enjoy PvP in a box, but. at this time, we cannot sustain it - and how can I justify saying that? Because the only way to pull it off would be to allow you to go up against your own realm depending on the time of day.
These projects were both doomed to fail in the end however since this was at the "full TOA time" meaning people had to go through all the ML raids, arti scroll farming, master, CL and arti lvling and so on to finish their characters. Meaning if one group had a setup that didnt work out they didn´t really have much of a choice. They could choose between quitting or staying with their failed setup.
This is why I would like it to just be a huge instanced zone that you port in to that works like these projects worked but you will still use your regular Ywain characters. Im pretty sure that this is something that would have a huge chance of getting some returning 8vs8 players to the game. Right now most returning players I run into are those who prefer the zerg action and when speaking to some of the old 8 man players, they seem confident that the 8vs8 action is over on live.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
No. Them not doing something to cater to your niche requirements does not mean they want you to leave. You just refuse to adapt, even if adapt means speaking with your wallet and quitting.
My group recently quit because like you, we were tired of the quality of action and got bored. We spoke with our subs. You can sit here crowing on the forums until you're blue in the face, but the glory days are over. Get over it.
@elninost0rm That you for you input. But I will not simply roll over and give up. I love this game, and what it can be, and simply asking if my voice matters to BS, my voice and the voice of other like minded people. If @John_Broadsword will answer my direct question with a direct answer, that then puts the decision squarely back on my shoulders if I want to continue here and accept those rules, or maybe continue somewhere else. But I do hold the right to ask about the product and intentions as I am a customer.
I think arenas are just simply a bad idea, but i understand the attraction. A BG that provides more action via the FFA functionality creates more action across the board and caters to playstyles that most think are being ruined by larger numbers.
ymmv, but i feel like this is reasonable an a equal ground solution.
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Directly pulled from your web page where Ultima Online is your showcased as your featured product.
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I also like the posts about how the zergs only roam ev looking for 8 mans. This is laughable and would be pointless as there would be 300 speedwarps dropped and sos popped and no one would get to you even if it was true. Very seldomly have I see a Zerg leader not say leave that 8 man, were chasing down a ton more, or pull off we won’t catch them. I’m not sure what zergs you’re talking about that solely target 8 mans and chase for zones. The ones I have joined in the past year and a half since being back have maybe a handful of times chased certain 8 mans as they are elitist asses that most of the population can’t stand.
The 8 man focus from what I have been told during the Kujii era is what ruined population to begin with, although I could be wrong as I was not around for 10 years. When I left 10 years ago it was a healthy population when the first clustering occurred and a healthy mix of playstyles, obviously population has taken a huge hit and now I think BS is literally looking for a miracle all the while trying to keep multiple playstyles happy in order to keep what they can for as long as they can. Where they failed is with the ridiculous class changes and seemingly thoughtless gear additions in terms of attainability and how they are almost required in order to compete.
Sorry, that is not true. At least Hero`s zerg is trying to get each 8 that cross the way. It`s a standard situation how Hero`s zerg is going to wipe. Chasing a 8 man, zerg thinned out and Anna from comes from behind, voila.
And no, they did not learn.....
To chamie:
Don’t bother as I’m sure it does happen, the same as when small mans Get chased by 8 mans and solos chased by everything. It is I’m sure not the main intent, but when an enemy crosses your path they die. EV isn’t that large so I’m sure if you’re running around skirting the Zerg you will eventually get run over. If you cannot avoid the Zerg using lagdar and map swords then I can’t help you. I know when I solo I’m always using region chat to say where I see a Zerg and where they are and tons of others do as well, I guess whatever realm and time you play no one does that either.
Zergs don't chase 8 mans
then Zergs do kill 8 mans.
Please make a desicion. Then we can discuss this.
The zergs do chase, I never said they hunt soley 8 mans, but they can and do chase accross zoneS (plural) sometimes.
And no I'm not asking for cannon fodder to the 8 mans. We have made a direct request to place a specified area, that is opt'ed into by entering, in which 8v8 is the focal point. Again, this is a community developed play style that emerged in the very early stage of this game almost 2 decades ago that many enjoy, but is problematic to actually get. Dodge zerg, find where the other 8 mans are, then find a suitable hit location, and hope the fight doesn't get jammed. This leads to a lot of setup fights at particular locations, to which I am also not a fan of, I enjoy the hunt and positioning of a good hit, I have both blindside hit, and been blindside hit in fights, thats part of the tactical part of the fight. How your group recovers or folds.
The only thing the current event has done is remove the zerg from the island for a little bit, still many zergs roam the island. I think most of the 8 mans would agree to go ahead and use the island for movement purposes, we can dodge that, take KM and then move on to your target. But yes, the mid zerg, nightly, will just open a port in Hib, and then sit on the island for hours.
Over the last month, I have went out of my way to not chase solo's, not go to solo zone, and it has cost my group more than anything. Literally had a BD that was trying to add a fight the other day, we finished killing, killed the BD pets, mezzed him and started to run away leaving him so he could get the hint that we would let him live as a solo at MMG. We get hit as leaving and the little guy added in the fight again, then the zerg poured thru MMG and rolled us.
That is a nightly situation, if not hourly, that has me frustrated. and why we are asking for a space to enjoy the game as we choose, just as you want to enjoy the game as your choose.
Still waiting John... 7/27 the question was asked..
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we are bored to death to roam for 1hour and find no enemys.
noone of us play since months.
we would instant return if broadsword makes faster action possible.
we love daoc, but noone of us is able to enjoy it
I mean its hard to compare since we come from very different servers from back in the days. I think the statement that 8 mans have always been complaining about something is not entirely correct though. Sure there have been problems and as stated in this thread these problems became huge enough to make a massive Camlann project to bring more action at one point.
I wouldnt see the problem that was back then as something that people addressed as an issue with how the game is made. I mean we didnt have zergs roaming agramon all day looking for 8 mans, zergs stayed in main lands and went for keeps. The two playstyles didn´t collide in the same way. Of course you would sometimes run into a zerg and die but it wouldnt be every day life to try to run away from the zerg.
Two differences were very big back then. Agramon was "effectively bigger" which is of course both positive and negative. It´s positive to have it huge in the way that it becomes less attractive for zergs to roam it but the non full group action such as smallie action and so on becomes non existant. To sum it up, agramon was the perfect area for set groups to go in the evening to fight eachother without having to do set up fights. Meaning while the community was big enough, it allowed for varied action AKA 8vs8 but not same group over and over again.
Nowadays zerging is way more rewarding for RPs than it has ever been due to insane bonus on keep defense / take and quests. In fact even as 8 man most of the RPs we make these days are from keep fights.
TLDR: Situation for 8 mans is worse than ever.
But if there is some other measurement by which the masses judge a good day in RvR, like, taking 6 keeps without dieing once is considered a good day, please feel free to enlighten me.