Thoughts of a returning player.
Well I been back in DAOC for about a 2 months now. I have to say I am incredibly disappointed in this game. It saddens me that this game has gone down hill soo much. I have read posts and heard people say returning player campaigns just don't seem to work for some reason as players just don't stay. I thought I'd throw this up here so everyone can have a returning players perspective.
The problem I have found is the current player base. Its not the classes, its not even the fact an a rr1 player has 0% chance vs a rr10+ player. Free to play will not save this game. The player base has 2 types of players.
1) 8 mans who only take specific classes fully templated and generally have their on clique groups (who all scream about how zergs are soo bad lol).
2) zergs who all can join but mainly people with aoe's are given preferance within the bg to maximize rps.
The ladder isn't so bad for a returning player. However if there is no zerg because you have missed the dedicated zerg time for your realm you may as well log. I am not one to give up easily, so this is not one of those posts that say I'm cancelling sub. To put it into perspective how bad this can be for a returning player I have spent on numerous occassion's lfg for upwards of 8 hours before giving up and logging.
I know people are going to say well get a guild bla bla bla... I am in guilds however most guilds have their groups they run in. I think this problem is largely tied to the fact their is no more realm pride in this game. Honestly I had never played any other realm before prior to coming back this time. I had only played Midgard. Unfortunately I was forced to try and play other realms as finding groups in Midgard outside of zergs is impossible.
I have also noticed there is a lot of people who just realm swap to whichever is winning.. If you want people to be able to play which ever realm there should be some sort of lock out, and jack up the rps for taking tower/keeps however make it so you cant take them as a 8 man easily. This would encourage more keep/tower bgs and breath life into the game.
Maybe I'm just some stupid noob but I think its everyones responsibility to show some realm pride and remember this games rvrvr not 8v8v8. There needs to be more people leading more bgs. I am not trying to bash 8man groups, infact I'd hope to inspire you to take your talents with your 8 mans and expand it to leading a bg and dominate your enemies realm. Take their keeps, take their towers, leave none of them alive!
For those of you wondering I have templated multiple toons fully on multiple realms. I honestly don't know why I'm bothering to write this. I don't expect anything to change. Atleast I got it off my chest. Proceed to kill the game you guys enjoy so much and feel free to flame me hopefully i got through to one player so this was worth it.
The problem I have found is the current player base. Its not the classes, its not even the fact an a rr1 player has 0% chance vs a rr10+ player. Free to play will not save this game. The player base has 2 types of players.
1) 8 mans who only take specific classes fully templated and generally have their on clique groups (who all scream about how zergs are soo bad lol).
2) zergs who all can join but mainly people with aoe's are given preferance within the bg to maximize rps.
The ladder isn't so bad for a returning player. However if there is no zerg because you have missed the dedicated zerg time for your realm you may as well log. I am not one to give up easily, so this is not one of those posts that say I'm cancelling sub. To put it into perspective how bad this can be for a returning player I have spent on numerous occassion's lfg for upwards of 8 hours before giving up and logging.
I know people are going to say well get a guild bla bla bla... I am in guilds however most guilds have their groups they run in. I think this problem is largely tied to the fact their is no more realm pride in this game. Honestly I had never played any other realm before prior to coming back this time. I had only played Midgard. Unfortunately I was forced to try and play other realms as finding groups in Midgard outside of zergs is impossible.
I have also noticed there is a lot of people who just realm swap to whichever is winning.. If you want people to be able to play which ever realm there should be some sort of lock out, and jack up the rps for taking tower/keeps however make it so you cant take them as a 8 man easily. This would encourage more keep/tower bgs and breath life into the game.
Maybe I'm just some stupid noob but I think its everyones responsibility to show some realm pride and remember this games rvrvr not 8v8v8. There needs to be more people leading more bgs. I am not trying to bash 8man groups, infact I'd hope to inspire you to take your talents with your 8 mans and expand it to leading a bg and dominate your enemies realm. Take their keeps, take their towers, leave none of them alive!
For those of you wondering I have templated multiple toons fully on multiple realms. I honestly don't know why I'm bothering to write this. I don't expect anything to change. Atleast I got it off my chest. Proceed to kill the game you guys enjoy so much and feel free to flame me hopefully i got through to one player so this was worth it.
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None of your points will solve his problems.
A lot of your points have been around forever and have been addressed to some degree. Hero pve keeps so they adjusted rps. The BG is what RVR is about and 8 mans have been that way since the OF.
Also the stealth zerging FGs and sometimes 2fg of them are out of control, and will only expand when f2p comes online.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
As it stands having the mentality of running static groups not allowing returning players to group only further kills the game. The solution is not to just look out for you.
I understand your mind set of a fair fight... This is an rvrvr game its not dota. It shouldnt be based on a fair 1v1 fight. This is a game that is designed around realm v realm v realm. If i am incorrect please someone from broadsword step in and correct us on the intended design.
If you think this way you`re a part of the problem.
It isn`t good in any way if ppl can switch realms within 1-2 mins.
@returningplayer
The design of the game is not from Broadsword, something that ppl often forget.
BS vision of daoc is zerg vs zerg, just take a look at the last event. Not a bad event, but it works only with ppl fighting at the dragon keep/zone.
If the game targets 8v8 then the maps need to be redone as well. they should just abandon the nf and force everyone to pvp in ev. My gut feel is the few are ruining the game for the many.
The realm swap thing being only 33% of the game seems a little off as well. Playing any one realm gives you the opportunity to play the game fully. I could understand the point if the direction of the game was pve but lets be realistic daoc pve is horrible and should never be a focus in this game... hehe if your playing daoc for pve then your doing yourself a great disservice by not playing many other games.
The focus of this game should be shifting to single group based objectives - This is on Broadsword to do.
People need to be more inviting to people they don't normally group with - This is on our community to group up returning players. I personally have found several people that were diamonds in the rough because I invite almost anyone until I have 8. There are very few people that are on my no fly list. I have grouped kings gear, R1's, classes that are not my preference, and completly redone the group comp. My requirements are being able to hear and speak in discord, and have a level 50 that can synergize well with some type of group setup. Templates are prefered, For new/returning players I understand the daunting task, I do stop grouping with people that have returned, 4 weeks ago and still flat out refuse to get any gear other than kings gear. Because of this, I truly feel that me and my cru have met some wonderful people and had a great time playing, joking, and fighting, and many of those players are more than happy to run with me again. But you have to start throwing out invites. Hell the other day on Alb, I literally ran around the relic town with an invite macro and invited every single char I saw trying to fill last spot. And I have done the same on Hib.
But, if these Zergs don't start breaking up, there will, and I know I keep threatining this, but there will be a snaping point for me and my cru, and there will be 1 less group to fight against. Or not fight against, because even the zergs don't want to fight eachother. Hell I don't think much of the leaders right now on a skill level, but at least last night Solic showed some balls and attacked stuff and didn't dodge and run from fights. Yesterday on Alb, my group was defending Bold against Hero zerg, single FGA. We killed 3 heros and a vamp on the ramparts and Hero tucked tail and move the entire BG to Eras. I lost the little respect I had for him at that moment.
I didn´t know a single player so I had to get to know new people and while I will agree that it felt harder than it should have to be it was far from impossible.
I main as pac healer though and have over 100 days played time of mostly 8vs8 as that character so it was relatively easy for me to carry /region and /lfg groups vs other random groups which made my comeback quite easy. When I noticed that playing in these random groups during prime time was impossible because of set groups, I decided to contact every group leader in the 8vs8 community via PM to introduce myself. Shortly thereafter I was given chances to play with the top groups and after that I was back into the 8 man community.
I never once felt like I had to zerg or stick to a bg. There were however a few occassions where I would get invited to a random group which happend to stick some kind of zerg or use something that people call "side cars". I tried to lead groups myself as often as I could because I hated this 2018 behaviour where you add on everything and use various dirty tricks to avoid 8vs8.
TLDR: You are NOT forced to zerg as a returning player although I understand that there are difficulties doing something else, I´m trying to some things for the community to make it easier for new players to join the group vs group action.
go figure ---- you are not forced to do anything in this game, but unless a direction is picked people will do what is easy and/or 'fun' --- would be great if it was both.
Why did the game get this way is the actual question. If you drive it to small objectives for value people will just 'zerg' to dominate -- again, nature. It would seem wiser to drive it back to a place where all playstyles are valuable --- not an easy task, granted, but there have been plenty of solutions presented and ignored --- and here we sit with virtually no one happy.
Group based objects, both PvE and PvP. PvE raids should not require half of the RvR pop to complete, this make it hard to form groups. I just named almost every consistant US Prime Hib guild that runs and why you are not seeing action from them. But, If Pillager/Cdump/Clumsy/Lavas/Paindancer/Xyroman etc. would break into smaller groups and fight, you would see a lot less 180 on inc and would fight more than chase across 2 zones.
But Hey I could be wrong here, This week Hibs have hovered at 50% bonus all week right where the albs have been for the past several months. But you keep on doing you. Just don't be mad when all you have to fight is keep guards....
Proud to be part of the problem in your words, in mine I’m always positive and will be apart of the solution as long as I’m playing (not as much anymore tbh)
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
So you actually play this game AND pay attention -- I run 8fg on island only????? Wow, the problem is your perceptions....myopic at best.
So you are not going to play CU where we`re going to have the same mechanics that we had in daoc for many years. Where choice matters, where realmpride matters?
Thats ok for me.
The only thing you actually fight is lower numbers. No sportsmanship, no contest. Laugh while your doing it as the numbers your chasing get smaller and smaller. Still never answered my question of where is all this promised action that you tell your followers your bringing them. I have consistently out RP'ed the mids and all BG leaders running for the last month while I just ran 8v8 . As well as many other 8v8 people. And no its not because I simply logged on more, Hell I've missed the 4 days last week because of work and still pulled +25% over Xyorman and had 3 more in similar earnings. Me and my cru are getting our action, and we want more of that action, maybe some of the followers would fair similarly if they broke apart and tried to stand on their own. Or continue hiding behind numbers.
The zerging playstyle is fine, and is your choice, but if you choose to engage in more fights, I'm telling you, there are other options, and benifits than splitting RP's with 80 other people, and thats splitting after you chase them down across 2 zones and still half the group gets away.
so basically what i read here is all returning players play healers and stroke egos of the 8 mans in hopes you can get table scraps. They should add that info to the returning player campaign emails and see how many people decide to come back and try it out..
look i get it you enjoy playing a pac healer. thats great but i do however feel that most returning players probably dont want to come back to heal so the 8 mans can continue playing..
i do agree that you cant destroy all other play styles in the game however people come back to daoc for the epic large scale fights. if they wanted long drawn out small man team based pvp there is much better options including arena pvp in wow... /sad.
id understand the frustration of being out numbered thats why i think there should be some sort of hp/dmg bolster to underpopulated realms instead of rp boost. that way it can level the playing field a bit. pursuing this 8man nirvana has left this game in a pretty sad state of affairs and something should be done to save it.
I have ran in mid and hib zergs. i can say that no realm is above the other. infact they all do try to hit areas where the action is..
As for the comment by static about less rps in zerg i couldnt agree more. If they want to push zerg vs zerg combat rps should be best in zergs and 8man, small man and lol duelers (wtf haha how is this even a thing in a rvrvr game hahhaa) should be significantly reduced... this would encourage more realm bgs.
Id also like to say all you guys that do lead bgs my hat goes off to you. your probably the only real hope this game has to retain some of the returning players.
The last thing this game needs is to make people zerg more I mean how deluded are you? People are doing nothing other than zerging on live these days. Have you ever watched the official DAoC stream?
To go along with Chamie's point, You are obviously welcome to try any class, but since this game has come out, support char's have ALWAYS had an easier time finding groups. Not one person can deny this. I also returned about 4-5 months ago after 4 year break, and that was less than a 6 month stay from the 10 years before that. My most recent come back tour, I geared my highest RR and fav toon, a Mentalist, a Druid, and Warden. This way I could swap and be conducive to getting groups. I didn't care what I played, just wanted to run and kill. There is a lack of Bards on hib so I resurrected my bard from the depths of where I deleted him from in OF and started forming groups. You can't reasonably expect to come back to the game as a DPS and never expect to be lfg. Hell even me offering Ment/Eld/Druid/Warden/BM/Hero I still spent hours lfg and that was after I made a few contacts. Those contacts are now gone because they either quit, got to big of an ego, or run side cars that I don't agree with. Those are what I have to deal with.
But you are the first person (other than the BG leaders themselves patting their own backs) that say they hit targets and engage in fights. Do you not read the forums? Scroll down, there about 5-10 posts in the last 2 weeks about the zerg leaders to scared to fight each other.
Honestly, I can't even with you.
what is ur solution to getting players to come back and stay? from what im reading in what your wrote we should play support characters when returning and spend months building relationships to form 8 mans?
I dont even know what planet that sounds like a reasonible expectation to have for returning/new players. besides that sounds like what we are currently trying and failing horribly.
You have to realize if the player base doesnt grow or maintain that daoc will follow suit of warhammer online. You do agree with that atleast right?
Lets get one thing straight here though. 8mans exist and have always existed because you get more rps. so lets say tomorrow we lower all rps for small/8man groups. Would you still proactively push 8v8v8 and spit at those side carring scoundrels?
Sorry, but you`re wrong there. All hope is lost If zerging 2-3h/day at Us/eu primetime is the only action in this timeframe. There would be more returning players if each playstyle has a niche, and not only at primetime.
Maybe she should play the game during streaming like we all do, that would lead to a more realistic picture of DAoC as flying from action to action. Not very impressive, amazing action during this streams.
it seems people are very opinionated against zergs but no one really has any insight on resolving the issue at hand...
Chamie is trying to start a drafting 8v8 setup where you can only have a max of 5-6 and HAVE to draft off the board and kind of ladder standings to pick order, still working the kinks out but solid COMMUNITY LEAD EVENT, NOT a BS sponsered event. 8v8 was a CUMMUNITY developed style that both Mythic and BS have refused to embrace.
I have mentioned several different ideas, my Personal favorite is a very, very slight spin off JTT's idea of a Mordred ruleset level 50 BG. I even offered to give up all RP's for any kills inside the BG, but add a single daily quest same as the other daily quests, for 20k RPs for 24 kills, only kills inside the BG count.
There, bam, 2 ideas to bring 8v8 action on board, and ZERO mention of interacting with the zerg. The zerg can still have its place for the people that need to rely on that play style and PvE doors down.
Now, Can you accept those 2 ideas as a shake up to bring players back? I think either one has a better chance that the current event, which only caters to the realm with highest population logged in, and guess what, if your not in that realm, just don't go to the zone the keep is in, then no one gets RP's. And then when the zerg does leave no one gets the 75% bonus of 0, which makes the event pointless if people wise up and use their brain, but some people still feed the zerg with their duo/trio that runs in kills 3-4 and dies, all that does is feed this notion that the zerg leaders are making you massive RP's. When if you actually look at the herald, it not true at all.
I have addressed your reasons for zerging, you have yet to address my reasons against. Tell me why you thin 8v8 hurts the population of this game.
I was running last evening with a guild group as part of Hero`s BG. 17k rp`s (3k from healing), no quest finished, in 2hours. Sorry, that isn`t very entertaining for me, not even if i could get rp`s for running miles and miles in circles.
1 Keep fight was ok, but meh, dem hibbies messed it up.
Interesting that Alb has up to 85% bonus each evening between 7:45 and 10 pm (eu times), seems there is a high need for easy going rp`s and switching realms is their fav hobby. Could be more if they grow some balls and build up a own counterzerg.
On the other hand...it`s Albion, the land of men in tights.
I'm with you here. If zerging is seen as the only safe way to make it out in the frontiers there will never be fun 8v8 or even 1v1 for that matter. I got back into this game strictly for the 8v8, that's where the skill is at all. If all you can/want to do is zerg, then I'm having doubts about your ability to play. I understanding zerging can have its place in the game, keep taking or relic raiding.
@returningplayer I'm sorry that you still can't answer why 8v8 hurts this game. If the pop was there I have no issues with the zergs, but they don't fight each other and kills the action. The game is about PvP, with the interesting turn of PvPvP, but its just not getting the fights for the majority of the players. For more than 75% of the time that people play, this server may as well be Gharis, its all PvE.
Not going to help if you are trying to get your 8 vs 8 set up fights going and you are turning down people right from the start because they like the zerging play style. According to Rulother if you zerg you are automatically a worse player than the 8 vs 8 crew people.
I want to see a healthy population in game too and I think BS needs to have options for EVERYBODY in the player base. Bashing a whole play style because you think you are above it... is not the way to roll or get people on your side.
Chamie and I have posted many times several ideas to help encourage the 8v8 scene only to get continually bashed on for even bringing it up. Chamie has been quite professional in their responses while I have served ban time for out right bashing, I acknowledge this, but not seeing any ban hammers getting thrown back at the zergers. The frustration is boiling over.
That's not what I'm saying, though I can see where you might infer that. I said if all you want to do is zerg, not if you join the zerg every now and then. If I can't find a dedicated 8man, I might join up with the bg, depending on who is running it. The problem is, zerging has been the only means for a lot lately. I can go out with my 8man, but will only run into a zerg and never a 8man, sometimes 2fgs. Lately it has been, run into a fg then 2fgs pop out and crush you.
This is an end game thing, think furthur than the next 3-4 weeks. If pop could sustain and have active competitive BG's then I have no problem with them, I do think they have their place, what I'm not on board with is this mentality that the zergs have that they can consistantly roll over the decreasing lower population for ever. If you truley love this game, even as a casual, with limited play time, that does not discount your passion for this game, but if you do love it, as I do (this game has literally changed my life 15 years ago), then you need to look at the sustainability of the business model. As a business model catering to the zergs in short sighted. It is for the masses of 1 realm, the realm with the highest population.
I keep hearing all this love for the game, and yet only the 8 mans and Natebruner are the ones that have the respect enough to a least say "good fight." And if you have read ANYTHING on these boards you should know how much I would hate to give Nate a compliment (yes I will catch hell for this from my guild later tonight), but regardless of what I think of him or his play style, he is the ONLY non 8v8 mindset player that gives out gf's.
Where are the fights these zergs promise,
Where is the sportmanship if double numbers,
where is the respect for letting someone stand on their on, 1v1, 4v4, 8v8?
Where, tell me where is all this love for the game that everyone speaks of, because the only ones I'm seeing, exist in the 8v8 community. And while the Zerg pays the bills this month, the 8v8 will stay subbed longer if treated fairly.
8man is bad because it dictates only specific classes to participate which leaves most returning players with lfg frustration and leave.. i dont understand how your incapable of understanding this...
8mans require specific group make up to be competitive which do not apply to the masses hence why people leave.. why pay to play a game if u have to play something u dont want to... dont say that the groups take anyone... thats bs after all u march around here screaming fair equal honorable fights bla bla bla.
zerg allows for diversity and allows for more players to participate. this game cant sustain itself strictly on the 8man model. lets assume what ur saying is correct that 8mans will stay and support the game longer.. how many players is that.. lets do some loose math...
8players = 8x15 = 120 a month.
so lets assume how many solid 8 mans.. lets be generous and say 50 8 man groups.
50x120 = 6000
you think that is enough to cover broadswords cost to operate a month...
i get what ur saying. ur the pro arena guy... i honestly think u woild enjoy wow arena but thats besides the point.. your business model will not fly.
just realize if u love this game soo much and it changed ur life 15 years ago.. (lol a video game changed ur life.. theres some issues i wont touch) broadsword will not continue to keep the game running out of the kindness in their hearts.. its a business not a charity.
the perspective you take is the game is dieing so lets make arenas and fight while the servers are still up. the perspective i take is lets try and keep the game alive.. two totally different mindsets hence why i said i would stop replying to you earlier... yet here i am trying to continue talking to a wall... foolish on my own part..
It's impossible to have a conversation with a zealot, facts mean nothing. You seem to get your info from postcount; worse yet others who think they KNOW things. Missing 4 days you still run more than I do and longer --- you wanna know why there are BG's -- people want to run in them. I have more time 8v8 in this game than you have played, but you wouldn't know that because you KNOW what's going on; ---- sorry there, but you really know nothing at all.
They`re not available, not as rp fodder for the zerg and not as paying customers. Each player that quits at the current state is a loss.
There are enough empty Battlegrounds, make one of them lvl 50 with ffa ruleset and see what will happen.
I don't mean be rude but this mindset is LOL. Ok sooo lets break it down why it is..
there isn't enough players in zergs on some sides which is why zergs are unfair / unskilled (staticc mindset).
this then causes 8v8 because numbers imbalance.
solution:
if we make a battle ground so people can 8v8 in them this will resolve issue....
WRONG this is why:
well the zerg's will go ok. well no one to kill out here lets all join the battleground and kill the 8mans its better then no rps.
if you think you can solve this issue by instituting restrictions to the battleground ie number of players. That will not happen as its an mmo and its not good business sense to alienate customers. if you think they will dump more resources into the game to open multiple battleground instances so you can 8v8 your kidding yourself as im sure the revenue generated doesn't warrant the cost.
Now im not saying this wouldnt be something that could be done later down the road but in my eyes there has to be a larger game population before it would even be entertained. which brings all this nonsense back to the big question that no one can answer apparently and that is "HOW DO WE RETAIN RETURNING PLAYERS??"....
let me try simple math equation hopefully you can follow...
population + returning/new players = population growth
population growth = more revenue
more revenue = longer life of game + new features/added investment into the game.
On a different note. I do want to point out last night was amazing turn out on bgs from all sides hib alb and mid. There was some fun epic fights and it was the first time i saw such good turn out from all realms since i returned 2 months ago.
Hib could of used a bit more but unfortunately they had 8 mans that didnt join their zerg and kept trying to feed rps off the sides of the battling zergs by killing over extending players.
I know this incredible battle didnt have anything to do with this post but i like to pretend it had a little to do with the sense of realm pride post earlier.
@returningplayer Please re-read my first statement as a starter. For you next point, double the 8 man count, because most of us have at min 1 buff bot account, and many that have 2 bot accounts or more which would cover the few that don't run a bot account, I'll take the generous side and and call it an even 2 accounts per 8 man'er. That does start to offset the cost and pure business model.
Next point. I have/do/and continue to group random people with random group makeup based on availability almost daily. I do have a set group of 7 friends with specific classes in which I feel make an optimal group setup on tues/thurs so that we can get what we want out of this game. Thats how we want to play.
I'll address the "we're to good to group up and do anything for the rest of the realm" implication. I am not selfish, I can get 15 witness to back me up that I have had a list of 7 people waiting to run in my group with each class that I want, I then messaged them each and got them to make a new second group, to roam on their own. I was not self and they were all solo'ing while waiting for 1 to log from my group and join individualy, I got them in touch with each other and got them running out in the frontier, I even had then in a secondary RvR chan on my discord server because they all already had the access. Have you ever done anything that unselfish in this game? I have given away items to people, help recommend high demand classes, and current specs for those classes to returning players, Recommended guilds for returning player to match their personalities, given other common group leaders recommendations on players, everything I can do to get people into RvR. And yes that includes getting them in BG based RvR. So I will not accept any criticism of not doing my part to help my fellow gamer here. That is flat out incorrect.
As for your personal attack at me that you "not even going to touch." I'll restrain myself from dropping a couple F bombs and elaborate for you.
Before a friend showed me this game I was a drug addict living on my own at age 17 stealing a phone line from a car shop across town as a phone line. I was a high school drop out and working as a janitor. I met my co-gm of my guild in murie tomb. And we built a solid respected guild back on Hib Tristan (Unbroken Unity for any that remember). Not hard core 8man but a group of friends that enjoyed gaming. Eventually after being unemployed for 8 months my co-gm helped move me 500 miles to a complete new town with no promise of a job, car, or even a place to live. Technically I went 3 months homeless. An officer from guild moved to the same town from across country because she was looking to get out on her own from her dad, and another officer from guild did the same coming from Alaska to meet us in Kentucky. Sadly, they both moved back within 6 months. I stayed, clean up my life (15 years sober of drugs 2 months ago) Went back and got my GED, went to college, even worked with the local police department. As a matter of fact, I was the primary IT support for the city for the point of greatest eclipse as designated by NASA last year, and still have my picture of me on location when I hooked up their internet. Also because this game peaked my interest in technology and computers. I think this game has a big impact on my life.
So before you go randomly judging people on the internet, maybe ask what you have done in your life recently.
Cool story bro... No idea what it has to do with realm population.
@BurkleyRIP I'm asking to force anyone to go to 8v8. I have clearly said, multiple times, that is your play style, but there is an alternative, and you will see more fights by breaking off from the BG because more 8v8 will happen and you will get more fights than chasing or just doing laps stuck 1 leader that has you conviced that this is the best way to make RPS.
@RonELuvv The zergs are killing action. 3 fights clears quests and almost 100k RP's for the night. it takes 4-5 hours to get those 3 fights. So 1 fight per hour, the rest is searching for a group, dodging the zerg, roam emain, roam odins, roam Hadrians, dodge zerg, roam EV. There is every potential to get 3 fights an hour rather than 3-4 fight per night. I didn't say 8 man was dieing, I said it can help stimulate the population if some things can be moved to increase single group activities.
3 FG's have moved over to Live from **** in the last month, now, regardless if they were zerg guild or 8man, 24 live players with I think we can all safely assume at least another 12 buff bots, these could be running in RvR, but the daunting task of gearing has to incorporate a BG, or begging to buy credits because they all started fresh accounts, then wait for a BG raid for PvE which leaders for those are dropping faster than BP's are earned. [edited] Thats players not in RvR. Thats a small mini zerg.
If more single group obtainable tasks can be targets, the returning player base would not feel so overwhelmed and quit in the first month, if action is increased with smaller skirmish based goals then they have a reason to stay after that first month. But as several people have state 3-4 weeks is on average (but not mileage may vary depending on time zone, realm, existing friends/guild, etc), then get 1-2 weeks of trying to get consistent groups, then they have no reason to stay for boring action.
a) Some of us expect Broadsword to dictate how we play there game and give us direction.
- The reality is that things evolve, even before Broadsword took over things had already evolved in how each and everyone of us played the game. It is an open sandbox style game in which NF is the battleground. Allowing for all styles of play. You as a player/leader get to choose what you want to do.
b) Spamming /lfg all day wether it be in /region or /bg chat is an option - be it also lets others determine what you do OR don't do in your playtime
- /bg groups or /bg groupclass and /msg the leader for a spot or what they need 90% are nice about it and accept any class
- step up and lead a small man /group - expand your circle of friends, avoid areas where known competitive groups roam.
competitive 8v8 can be class restrictive - noone is forcing you to do it, however casual roaming 8 man can be whatever - be the leader, lead your own playstyle and in game destiny - stop letting others dictate it for you.
i mean how does logging in hoping into a bg and getting into the action right away and participate in something during the limited play time most of adults have be the answer.
clearly we should log in and shout for specific classes for an hour or so (if lucky) or alternatively play support roles that we dont want to necessarily play so we can roll with 8mans and fight "fair fights" against higher rr players.. thats what returning/new players want to do...
Again, I'll repeat it again. ZERGING is dieing and killing the game pop. 8v8 is a way to increase player pool. Get your head around that please. Your taking a small suggestion that a different play style could be of benifit and turning into a witch hunt of exagerations with nothing to back it up. I have given many different scenarios of potiential and some have agreed to the potential, and that potential would naturally spill over and create more fights with other players.
Keep telling yourself that everytime you follow the bg leader with bigger numbers that you are increasing the population with swing on an empty keep door, and every lap on EV that you see nothing on. Chant that mantra and scream we won, we beat them into not even playing because we won the fight 80v16. Just keep saying it loud enough.