Scripting

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Comments

  • edited October 2020 PM
    Minibard wrote: »
    I am so good at bard because I have my AE MEZZ, AE amensia, root, 2x dd and demezz, group heal all on one button.

    There's a difference between decision making and mechanical skill.
    Scripting won't directly affect your decision making but it drastically reduce the mechanical skill required to play the game and it goes even beyond for some classes.
    The fact that you can bind 4 or more combat styles onto 1 key only is more than just adding comfort on melee classes.

    About all classes, the fact that now with scripts the 1 key = 1 action is not true anymore, you don't have to find accessible keys (mouse with 10+ buttons) or crazy combinaisons of keys (alt/ctrl/shift + X) it is comfort yes but mecanically speaking it's not only that.

    I do agree with the previous post, scripting is a good thing especially for poor mecanical players, thanks to scripting they can now believe that they are decent at the game by not really playing it (it's like they think that they are super bike riders but as script users they're just riding tricycles).

    Script users are willing to admit that it's more comfortable to use a script, therefor it makes the game easier to play (on a mecanical level at least), the question is : How easier the game is with a script?
    We can all agree on the fact that using a script won't make you a great daoc player, just a less worst on the mecanical level.

    I don't mind people who are using scripts, i would use them myself if it was implemented to the game.
    But script users telling us that it doesn't make such a big difference to use a script is kinda funny.
    Remember back in the days, pallys and skalds scripting their chants, just confort right...that's why they fixed that.
    It would be quite interessting to see a script user play a melee class with and then without a script.
    Post edited by Almhin on
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Almhin wrote: »
    Minibard wrote: »
    I am so good at bard because I have my AE MEZZ, AE amensia, root, 2x dd and demezz, group heal all on one button.

    There's a difference between decision making and mechanical skill.
    Scripting won't directly affect your decision making but it drastically reduce the mechanical skill required to play the game and it goes even beyond for some classes.
    The fact that you can bind 4 or more combat styles onto 1 key only is more than just adding comfort on melee classes.

    About all classes, the fact that now with scripts the 1 key = 1 action is not true anymore, you don't have to find accessible keys (mouse with 10+ buttons) or crazy combinaisons of keys (alt/ctrl/shift + X) it is comfort yes but mecanically speaking it's not only that.

    I do agree with the previous post, scripting is a good thing especially for poor mecanical players, thanks to scripting they can now believe that they are decent at the game by not really playing it (it's like they think that they are super bike riders but as script users they're just riding tricycles).

    Script users are willing to admit that it's more comfortable to use a script, therefor it makes the game easier to play (on a mecanical level at least), the question is : How easier the game is with a script?
    We can all agree on the fact that using a script won't make you a great daoc player, just a less worst on the mecanical level.

    I don't mind people who are using scripts, i would use them myself if it was implemented to the game.
    But script users telling us that it doesn't make such a big difference to use a script is kinda funny.
    Remember back in the days, pallys and skalds scripting their chants, just confort right...that's why they fixed that.
    It would be quite interessting to see a script user play a melee class with and then without a script.

    That's a great point. The general argument is that while scripting does make a difference (or else why would people do it in the first place) it doesn't play for you, which is what Brut and them are implying. They think that you turn on the script, sit back, drink some tea while your character rips everything while you are afk.

    The other argument is "the game wasn't designed for scripting". Yeah, that's true, it was designed 20 years ago in 18 months, and had millions of flaws that were "improved" over 127+ patches. Pretty sure scripting wasn't a thing back in 2001.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • Almhin wrote: »
    Minibard wrote: »
    I am so good at bard because I have my AE MEZZ, AE amensia, root, 2x dd and demezz, group heal all on one button.

    There's a difference between decision making and mechanical skill.
    Scripting won't directly affect your decision making but it drastically reduce the mechanical skill required to play the game and it goes even beyond for some classes.
    The fact that you can bind 4 or more combat styles onto 1 key only is more than just adding comfort on melee classes.

    About all classes, the fact that now with scripts the 1 key = 1 action is not true anymore, you don't have to find accessible keys (mouse with 10+ buttons) or crazy combinaisons of keys (alt/ctrl/shift + X) it is comfort yes but mecanically speaking it's not only that.

    I do agree with the previous post, scripting is a good thing especially for poor mecanical players, thanks to scripting they can now believe that they are decent at the game by not really playing it (it's like they think that they are super bike riders but as script users they're just riding tricycles).

    Script users are willing to admit that it's more comfortable to use a script, therefor it makes the game easier to play (on a mecanical level at least), the question is : How easier the game is with a script?
    We can all agree on the fact that using a script won't make you a great daoc player, just a less worst on the mecanical level.

    I don't mind people who are using scripts, i would use them myself if it was implemented to the game.
    But script users telling us that it doesn't make such a big difference to use a script is kinda funny.
    Remember back in the days, pallys and skalds scripting their chants, just confort right...that's why they fixed that.
    It would be quite interessting to see a script user play a melee class with and then without a script.


    Yes to all of this.
    Da ant family - 1801, 1802, 1805, 1809 - Da fly family - 4501, 4502, 4503, 4509 - Da spider family - 442, 444, 445, 447
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  • Almhin wrote: »
    [...]
    The fact that you can bind 4 or more combat styles onto 1 key only is more than just adding comfort on melee classes.
    [...]

    I don't think this is possible. Can you give an example?
  • @audizmann you can script rear follow up with rear style and side follow up with side style to one key. Just do the follow ups first
  • For me scripts help with qbinds. I can qbind an alt/ctrl bar to let's say K. I can assign K demezz. Then I can double bind my 3 button to mezz and demezz. Its QoL. If daoc implemented double binding I am sure 75+% would.not use scripts.
  • so--- assist player1-stun-nuke-dd-jump would be viable on one button??
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Sure if you want to stun every time you dd. And jump Maybe throw a debuff in there while you are at it. So your 3.0 cast just got longer. You can script an assist stun then script dd jump
    Post edited by Minibard on
  • Minibard wrote: »
    @audizmann you can script rear follow up with rear style and side follow up with side style to one key. Just do the follow ups first

    I don't think it'll work, because afaik the second style is always queued.

    So in that specific example, you'll get this in the chat log

    "you need to perform style "rear style" before style "rear follow-up!"
    "you will perform style "rear style"
    "you will perform style "side follow-up" in back-up of style "rear style"

    So if you don't land your rear style, you'll auto swing.

    Also, if you put too many styles you need to space them out with "sleep" sequences, which are prone to screwing up because of server lag.

    All in all, keep it simple, example side and back snare on one key, Follow-up + positional on one key, etc.
    47el wrote: »
    so--- assist player1-stun-nuke-dd-jump would be viable on one button??

    It won't work. With that specific sequence it'll always assist -> stun -> jump and you'll never nuke. Unless your stun is on a cooldown (Minstrel stun as an example).

    Anyways you never want to double bind your assist with your nuke, because what happens if your MA dies? You just run around in circles unable to nuke?

    What if someone else than the MA calls a target in your backfield, you wait for MA to target then you nuke? You'll want to manually target (omg click!!) and nuke it down.
  • I actually do think the example Minibard gave could work because it is based on positionals, but (for some reason) most other style chains will not work if you try with this many styles.
  • I only do offense/defense binds. The most I have done on sorc is spec debuff base debuff nuke

  • Shoke wrote: »
    That's a great point. The general argument is that while scripting does make a difference (or else why would people do it in the first place) it doesn't play for you, which is what Brut and them are implying. They think that you turn on the script, sit back, drink some tea while your character rips everything while you are afk.

    The other argument is "the game wasn't designed for scripting". Yeah, that's true, it was designed 20 years ago in 18 months, and had millions of flaws that were "improved" over 127+ patches. Pretty sure scripting wasn't a thing back in 2001.

    True. Players that doesn't use scripts tend to exaggerate their impact and players who are using scripts tend to minimize their impact.
    I strongly disagree with people calling it cheat but i also disagree with people saying that it doesn't make a big difference.
    Scripting is an evolution for the game and it's up to anyone to use it or not since it's now tolerated.
    In a way it's a bit similar to the custom UI, you don't have to use one but by using one, as a healer, the game is a bit easier to play thanks to the healer helper.
    audizmann wrote: »
    Almhin wrote: »
    [...]
    The fact that you can bind 4 or more combat styles onto 1 key only is more than just adding comfort on melee classes.
    [...]

    I don't think this is possible. Can you give an example?

    Check out the video in page 1 of this thread to get an exemple.
    Also, using a script is a thing but you have to use it properly otherwise it can be bad.
    It's not like you download a script and suddenly the game become easier to play, you have to get used to it, to ''master'' it.
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Almhin wrote: »
    Shoke wrote: »
    That's a great point. The general argument is that while scripting does make a difference (or else why would people do it in the first place) it doesn't play for you, which is what Brut and them are implying. They think that you turn on the script, sit back, drink some tea while your character rips everything while you are afk.

    The other argument is "the game wasn't designed for scripting". Yeah, that's true, it was designed 20 years ago in 18 months, and had millions of flaws that were "improved" over 127+ patches. Pretty sure scripting wasn't a thing back in 2001.

    True. Players that doesn't use scripts tend to exaggerate their impact and players who are using scripts tend to minimize their impact.
    I strongly disagree with people calling it cheat but i also disagree with people saying that it doesn't make a big difference.
    Scripting is an evolution for the game and it's up to anyone to use it or not since it's now tolerated.
    In a way it's a bit similar to the custom UI, you don't have to use one but by using one, as a healer, the game is a bit easier to play thanks to the healer helper.
    audizmann wrote: »
    Almhin wrote: »
    [...]
    The fact that you can bind 4 or more combat styles onto 1 key only is more than just adding comfort on melee classes.
    [...]

    I don't think this is possible. Can you give an example?

    Check out the video in page 1 of this thread to get an exemple.
    Also, using a script is a thing but you have to use it properly otherwise it can be bad.
    It's not like you download a script and suddenly the game become easier to play, you have to get used to it, to ''master'' it.

    To put it simply, it might elevate someones mechanical skill if he didn't get used to it, couldn't get a comfortable key-mouse layout yet, but not understanding of the game. If you ask me over time I ended up using it less and less, because it has it's limitations.

    Still doublebinding offensive/deffensive stuff, but thats about it, and only on a few stuff like mess/demess.

    On melee I use it way less then I've used to to bind styles. On a hybrid you could do a peel with back and side snares for convinience, but queueing up too much styles going to break what you want to do. There is latency in the game, so it's not consistent.

    Example:
    You are at the side of someone, it's pretty clear, AHK going to queue up side->back style on a push of a button.
    A: You perform side style -> then your back style starts to queue to your next style which you didn't want to, so messes up your next hit.
    B: You perform back style -> side style, then back style can go off if you just enter combat, so you messed up another hit.
    If your script is too tight, style orders might switch around, if its too slow, your first and second hits going to fail. Meanwhile it's not even consistent because of the latency.

    Followups are another problem, if you start queueing up followups, you rob yourself the ability to perform the first style again. Like if you peel someone, and it queues a followup, but you don't want to perform it, it just sucks.

    Long story short, some who never played with these stuff overmistificy it's impact, especially on the higher end when you talk about already great players. People are just love to think extremes, either it's 100% pure evil broken stuff or 100% useless. Aye, its neither. However if you spent so much of time to optimize your gameplay, you likely already rebound keys 20 times to find the most optimal for you, and that will be the biggest reason why it works. Yet, purely talking about mechanical abilities of players.

    Edit: The biggest reason people are stuck on mechanical level mostly due the unwillingness to change their playstyle. Be it neccessary or unneccesary thats a different topic. Some people make anything work.
    Post edited by Gavner on
  • Reality is, a new solo player will have to learn when to use his abilities against what, in casual groups people still casted-stun det tanks to give them immunity, sometimes melee trains try to assist down a heavy while casters freecasting etc.. There is more to this game then a push of a button.
  • edited October 2020 PM
    The real question @Gavner is how many of these players pretending scripts are evil still keyboard turn, click abilities and have spell queuing activated.
    Post edited by Shoke on
  • was wondering ---- does scripting cause lag????
  • 47el wrote: »
    was wondering ---- does scripting cause lag????

    No, but it's dependent of lag/latency
  • edited October 2020 PM
    Here is my Mojo script for my bard. You tell me how this is OP and ruining the game.
    Hotkey ( 3 )
    {
    description ( "Mezz/Demezz" )
    Foreground ( DAOC )
    key ( 3 )
    key ( q )
    }
    Hotkey ( c )
    {
    description ( "disease/cure disease" )
    Foreground ( DAOC )
    key ( c )
    key ( alt c )
    }
    Hotkey ( f )
    {
    description ( "weapon Side snare back to harp" )
    Foreground ( DAOC )
    key ( comma )
    key ( b )
    key (ctrl 1)
    }


    and for the weapon script I still need to check which chant quit playing when I switched.

    Post edited by Minibard on
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