Frontier Design for new server? OF, NF, or new?

edited February 2020 in General Board
Hey all,

Just dedicating a thread to the frontier side of the potential new server. Basically, would you rather see OF, NF or look at BS to re-design the frontier?

It would be nice if we could list what we liked in OF and NF and what we disliked in both aswell so that a final solution might emerge that could satisfy most of the population.

OF Pros:
- Unique terrain on each realm. All three frontiers were significantly different visually and in terrain elevation and how they play.
- Predictable travel routes, from border keeps to Uppland/Emain/Hadrian for the local realm, portal keeps with mile gates for the other realms.
- Size was smaller

OF cons:
- The run for the home realm, vs the "attacking" realms having their PKs right next to each other
- Being kept hostage in your PK if a zerg decided to camp the milegate, stealthers camping MGs, basically the mile gate camping
- The elevation and the hills are too much, lots of LoS issues
- Keep design, just small, uninteresting keeps for attack and defense.

NF pros:
- Uniformity of the terrain makes it that all three realms are equally usable. Not one preferred zone like Emain in OF while Pennine mountains were unusable
- Keeps and siege is more interesting
- Porting and boat routes (to some extent)
- Middle zone prone to group v group action (where zergs don't really have objectives to do there)

NF cons:
- Bland design (everything is brown)
- Too large for the current Daoc Population
- Porting faciliates movement too much, difficult to run into people
- Coast guarding and bridge camping


How can BS design areas and objectives that can be relevant for solo, smallman, groups and zergs? How can they design the map, think of objectives so that everybody gets their action without separating players too much?
Post edited by Shoke on

Comments

  • Shoke wrote: »
    Hey all,

    Just dedicating a thread to the frontier side of the potential new server. Basically, would you rather see OF, NF or look at BS to re-design the frontier?

    It would be nice if we could list what we liked in OF and NF and what we disliked in both aswell so that a final solution might emerge that could satisfy most of the population.

    OF Pros:
    - Unique terrain on each realm. All three frontiers were significantly different visually and in terrain elevation and how they play.
    - Predictable travel routes, from border keeps to Uppland/Emain/Hadrian for the local realm, portal keeps with mile gates for the other realms.
    - Size was smaller

    OF cons:
    - The run for the home realm, vs the "attacking" realms having their PKs right next to each other
    - Being kept hostage in your PK if a zerg decided to camp the milegate, stealthers camping MGs, basically the mile gate camping
    - The elevation and the hills are too much, lots of LoS issues
    - Keep design, just small, uninteresting keeps for attack and defense.

    NF pros:
    - Uniformity of the terrain makes it that all three realms are equally usable. Not one preferred zone like Emain in OF while Pennine mountains were unusable
    - Keeps and siege is more interesting
    - Porting and boat routes (to some extent)
    - Middle zone prone to group v group action (where zergs don't really have objectives to do there)

    NF cons:
    - Bland design (everything is brown)
    - Too large for the current Daoc Population
    - Porting faciliates movement too much, difficult to run into people
    - Coast guarding and bridge camping


    How can BS design areas and objectives that can be relevant for solo, smallman, groups and zergs? How can they design the map, think of objectives so that everybody gets their action without separating players too much?

    I suppose at the end of it, they could take the best of both worlds, really. Take the aesthetic, size, and Travel Routes from OF and combine them with the keeps, smaller middle zone, and porting (although limit it a bit) from NF. There are many different ways that this can be done, but, as you said, I feel that NF is far too large for the population.
    Listen to the people - they will guide you..
  • I never played OF but i would like the realms to look and feel different grom each other. And just to add to what i hope would change is the look of the keeps for each realm the only difference from realm to realm is color and an update to how the relic temples look and work. There are basically once a realm gets past the relic gate basically means they will get the relic if they made it past the gate dont get me wrong i have seen and defended a relic at the temple but that happens rarely happens.
  • Old Frontiers would be fine if the following was done:
    - Reduced number of aggressive mobs and reduced mob density in proximity to roads.
    - Bypasses at each mile gate to mitigate bottle-necking.
    - Teleport to Merchant Keeps for the home realm. May consider making them Border Keeps.
    - New Frontier keep design as Old Frontier keeps were bland.
    - Modern Siegecraft since it's easy to skill up and convenient to use.
    - Portal Ceremony whose timer increases with the number of keeps owned. Similar to how EV porting currently works with EV towers.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • OF Cons
    Albion Frontier
  • Of is fun but keeps suck and alb is horrible.
    In regards to bs nf is i like the milegates and relic wall changes. Also doors on oil areas is great and are river boats.
    With that i am a huge fan of the old nf map. 4 towers per keep, mazes fights and the old island. If bs could implement those milegates , relic gates and updated keep defense id be in. Also maybe put riverboats at the docks by the relic gates.
  • I would prefer NF, basically bec of these reasons:
    Shoke wrote: »
    OF cons:
    - The run for the home realm, vs the "attacking" realms having their PKs right next to each other
    - Being kept hostage in your PK if a zerg decided to camp the milegate, stealthers camping MGs, basically the mile gate camping
    - The elevation and the hills are too much, lots of LoS issues
    - Keep design, just small, uninteresting keeps for attack and defense.

    But please add real relic keeps, which are harder to take.

    And, no matter which frontier, add a hot spot for solos. Since solos are on the bottom of the food chain, they should atleast have a spot where they can meet.
  • Won't play if NF.
  • Won't play if OF.
    There, we both contributed to the discussion :)



    But honestly I don't care as long as it's a fresh start that is realm locked.

    Also, people keep saying fix EC instead, they can really open up EC once the new server hits because that'll be sub locked.
  • If (and it's a big "if") Broadsword has the resources and the desire to significantly redesign the frontiers, I think the best approach would be to release the new server (OF or NF, it doesn't matter much to me). Then work on rebuilding the Frontiers from scratch and implement the new version on Ywain when the alt server has run its course.

    This is the only way I can see a future for Ywain. (Not that I care about Ywain)
  • The people want OF. That other server went to NF and their population tanked. NF sucks, always has and always will.
  • No new server. Terrible idea,
    Da ant family - 1801, 1802, 1805, 1809 - Da fly family - 4501, 4502, 4503, 4509 - Da spider family - 442, 444, 445, 447
    Check out the trophy collection on Ywain 1.
    https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/daredant
  • edited February 2020 PM
    @Esel
    Not true. They had a vote and it was like 60% NF. Population didnt change much through that change.

    Post edited by Kroko on
  • Old frontier suck
  • edited February 2020 PM
    I think they should run OF for a while and NF for a while and then make changes trying to keep as many of the players playing on this server happy.

    The point with the new server should be to bring people back to the game and also bring completely new players to it. Most of the players that have left this game is probably not following this forum and people that hopefully is drawn to the game with this new server (friends of players returning for it) is probably not following this forum either, we can't tell what they would prefer when it comes to game design. Only way to get to know what the want is to let the new server develop over time when they have had a chance to make their opinions heard.

    With that said there are of course some elements that has been disliked by the majority of the payer base and could be altered directly.

    Things that have been mentioned in this thread that I think definitely should be considered:
    Shoke wrote: »
    OF Pros:
    - Unique terrain on each realm. All three frontiers were significantly different visually and in terrain elevation and how they play.
    - Predictable travel routes, from border keeps to Uppland/Emain/Hadrian for the local realm, portal keeps with mile gates for the other realms.
    - Size was smaller

    OF cons:
    - The run for the home realm, vs the "attacking" realms having their PKs right next to each other
    - Being kept hostage in your PK if a zerg decided to camp the milegate, stealthers camping MGs, basically the mile gate camping
    - The elevation and the hills are too much, lots of LoS issues
    - Keep design, just small, uninteresting keeps for attack and defense.

    NF pros:
    - Uniformity of the terrain makes it that all three realms are equally usable. Not one preferred zone like Emain in OF while Pennine mountains were unusable
    - Keeps and siege is more interesting
    - Porting and boat routes (to some extent)
    - Middle zone prone to group v group action (where zergs don't really have objectives to do there)

    NF cons:
    - Bland design (everything is brown)
    - Too large for the current Daoc Population
    - Porting faciliates movement too much, difficult to run into people
    - Coast guarding and bridge camping

    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Old Frontiers would be fine if the following was done:
    - Reduced number of aggressive mobs and reduced mob density in proximity to roads.
    - Bypasses at each mile gate to mitigate bottle-necking.
    - Teleport to Merchant Keeps for the home realm. May consider making them Border Keeps.
    - New Frontier keep design as Old Frontier keeps were bland.
    - Modern Siegecraft since it's easy to skill up and convenient to use.
    - Portal Ceremony whose timer increases with the number of keeps owned. Similar to how EV porting currently works with EV towers.

    Kroko wrote: »
    But please add real relic keeps, which are harder to take.

    Post edited by Jorma on
  • But why start with OF or NF, when you could do modifications to either one and/or build a new frontier map?

    By deciding NF or OF, you start by alienating 50% of your playerbase. If they want any kind of success, and differentiate themselves with the competition (aside from asking for a sub fee instead of being free...) in my mind they need to redesign the frontier.
  • As I did say in the thread that initiated this thread ( https://forum.darkageofcamelot.com/discussion/3181/ever-getting-a-fresh-classic-server ):

    "I am all for changing the frontiers but it is risky to make a massive change right of the bat.
    Do people still remember the good and bad things of the Old Frontiers (have everyone even played Old Frontiers)?
    Why not start with refreshing the memory or introducing those that never played it to it?"


    And as I said in this thread:

    "With that said there are of course some elements that has been disliked by the majority of the payer base and could be altered directly."

    What I object to at this point is a complete re-design of the frontiers.
  • NF, with toa, agramon and no timers.
  • I liked the fact that OF looked a lot better than nf with the differences in terrain etc what i would hate is having to run from a border keep each time you died. What you would need is at least the NF style porting to keeps and maybe joining them all up at a different point in each of the realms top most with a sea and island maybe. Keeps would need to be updated compared to old ones but i would still again like to see some difference in each of the realms keeps not just copies on each realm.
  • If they revamped Alb and put the NF keeps into OLD frontiers i could get behind it
  • If they do Classic. I really want everything time true. Was better then then what they have now. Let the people choose the server they want. OF, Multiple Accts. Bot. and ok with buff merchant like Live if folks want for leveling or Rvr.. Housing cool with me. SC and Alch shouldn't be there. Epic armor and MP Weapons or Dragon/DF drops should be as good as it gets like the old days, and I know I was there in 2001.
    No NF, Arts, CL's, Master Levels. Ywain has that. No BG's or Task Dungeons. Rvr In Frontiers only. I would love that.
  • If they do Classic. I really want everything time true. Was better then then what they have now. Let the people choose the server they want. OF, Multiple Accts. Bot. and ok with buff merchant like Live if folks want for leveling or Rvr.. Housing cool with me. SC and Alch shouldn't be there. Epic armor and MP Weapons or Dragon/DF drops should be as good as it gets like the old days, and I know I was there in 2001.
    No NF, Arts, CL's, Master Levels. Ywain has that. No BG's or Task Dungeons. Rvr In Frontiers only. I would love that.

    realm swapping ??
  • 47el wrote: »
    If they do Classic. I really want everything time true. Was better then then what they have now. Let the people choose the server they want. OF, Multiple Accts. Bot. and ok with buff merchant like Live if folks want for leveling or Rvr.. Housing cool with me. SC and Alch shouldn't be there. Epic armor and MP Weapons or Dragon/DF drops should be as good as it gets like the old days, and I know I was there in 2001.
    No NF, Arts, CL's, Master Levels. Ywain has that. No BG's or Task Dungeons. Rvr In Frontiers only. I would love that.

    realm swapping ??

    No, Realm Loyalty. 1 Realm per acct.
    Make another acct. if you want to play another realm.
  • Kat wrote: »
    NF, with toa, agramon and no timers.

    I agree with you on most things Kat. But you wrong this time my friend. True Classic, like when it first started. I would love that.
  • edited February 2020 PM
    2001 DAoC is nostalgic, not good.
    Post edited by Tyrantanic on
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • OF = People camped milegates. primarily AMG in emain. Hibernia griped because of the run. Albs griped because they couldnt get past the MG, and mid griped... .because everyone else was griping.

    NF = People still camp MG's. People camp towers, keeps, EV. Underpopulated realms gripe. Classes gripe because their counterpart has an advantage. Ergo, thats why they are a counterpart.

    The common denominator? Griping people. You can make 50% happy, but you're gonna piss the other 50% off. When you find something that make 80% happy.. start charging more for it, and get better graphics. You'll have a new game on your hands that might last another 20 years.
  • Sleepwell wrote: »
    OF = People camped milegates. primarily AMG in emain. Hibernia griped because of the run. Albs griped because they couldnt get past the MG, and mid griped... .because everyone else was griping.

    NF = People still camp MG's. People camp towers, keeps, EV. Underpopulated realms gripe. Classes gripe because their counterpart has an advantage. Ergo, thats why they are a counterpart.

    The common denominator? Griping people. You can make 50% happy, but you're gonna piss the other 50% off. When you find something that make 80% happy.. start charging more for it, and get better graphics. You'll have a new game on your hands that might last another 20 years.

    Old Frontiers Teamed with life . People Leveled in the Frontiers. Better EXP and Gold. 2001- 2006 was just Awesome!
    The Mile Gates in OF, Made The frontiers. Just go over it, or go thru with groups or Zerg. If you die..buff up and try again or check out another realm in the Frontier. Kind of nice you have a choice. Camping Portal Keeps solo or with friends was Fun. Solo's Small man's and Full Groups WILL HAVE THE TIME OF THEIR LIFES.!!

    Lets Make DAOC Great Again ! John. :)
  • Best thing would be to let people decide who actually will play the server or to take best features of both OF/NF together.
  • Kroko wrote: »
    Best thing would be to let people decide who actually will play the server or to take best features of both OF/NF together.

    If that was the case it would be a " Cluster xxxx" Stay true to the Time Line of what we all leveled in the beginning way back in 01' Please Give Us Shrouded Isles, Housing, NO SC or Alch. w/ same RA'S and I'm Good Baby. If I can have buffs and a bot and or merchant buffs the only exception. I would be so happy!
  • And I love Old Frontiers. Keeps and All! Awesome!
  • edited February 2020 PM
    Thats just your opinion, we got it.
    Post edited by Kroko on
  • You don't have to look far for a "true classic" DAoC server. You may be lonely though.

    A new server needs to offer something different than Ywain and any other server currently running. It can't be a simple roll back so it will require a bit of work on the developers side. Their original time line isn't realistic in this case but we'll see how Ywain fairs after the next patch.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • Who, as a company, with any sort of intelligence, would come up with a product that already exist in the marketplace, and that the main differentiator is that their's is free while yours costs money?

    Tell me how that makes any sense?

    Stop asking for classic + SI + housing. There is no way making that server is remotely intelligent for BS.
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