MLs are abilities for certain classes. Your question is the similar to ask: give tanks a heal spec line, or a cast spec line.
There should be a difference between classes, and not all classes can do everything.
@Kroko by that logic then the class spec lines provide it's uniqueness and the ML provides additional individual flavor and CLs homogenize or add yet another level of options? It only adds more possible unique combinations and doesn't add any game breaking abilities like adding a Heal line to Heavies... although they can heal already.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
MLs dont provide additional individual flavor. They provide abilities for certain classes. Every class gets certain abilities that are useful for this class. And every class schould get its own abilities. We dont need cure nearsight on a caster or zephyr on a healer or .....
@Kroko we have Zephyr on a healer lol. @Tyrantanic I could see niche MLs being utilized for a time before the sparkle wears off. All pet classes can already have ML 9 pets so no change there(forgot Ment and Minst don't thanks to @opo66 ). It would give Heavies some interesting choices with Sojo and Banelord but nothing game breaking. I would love to play a Battle master NS and a Warlord SB.
@Kymatius this is not true. Ever figured why Mentalists don't have access to convoker? Could it be that they could charm a red pet and ML9 it? Did the devs think it would be OP and therefore gave them other MLs?
Oh, and a Minstrel with a ML9 Barguest? That would be fun I suppose.
@Kroko you are arguing homogenization of class base spec lines and not addition of varying ML paths that would not affect basic class game play at all. Just so your aware of recent, Healer's also received Speed5 along with their Zephyr which they already had.
@opo66 true fact I forgot about Minst and Ment, however I have yet to meet a 50 Sun spec Mentalist most stop at 45 which highly affects resist on those particular red pets. I believe on the pulse charm spells using the ML9 from Convoker would also increase the pets level to resist the pulse which would just be a massacre to the charmer.
Ideas like this make the game further difficult to balance. Make your own server and try it out.
Post edited by Tyrantanic on
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
@Kymatius this is not true. Ever figured why Mentalists don't have access to convoker? Could it be that they could charm a red pet and ML9 it? Did the devs think it would be OP and therefore gave them other MLs?
Oh, and a Minstrel with a ML9 Barguest? That would be fun I suppose.
@Vewdoo not a single reason yet except people not wanting to face opponents with non-typical spec. Red pets ML9ed would not be able to be held on pulse charm lol...good luck sicking that thing on people. Class balancing is at a all time equal playing field its the other horse that needs to be beaten to resolve that...gear.
It would be fun and add more flavor without over powering or imbalancing game play. Also with this change you could entice more players to pay for subscription by making it paid account only.
I think its a great idea for a season on the new server! Something completely weird and awesome. I'd spend 6 months trying to figure out cool synergies. All 8 players with group stealth for instance. Mez poison, awesome!
Open up champ levels and artifacts too! (maybe get rid of ml tokens too, gotta actually do them)
I'm not sure I would call it complexity but original and new yes. Everyone knows what abilities every ML has and once one is used you know what to expect. I could definitely see how a stealthed heavy may catch a person off guard but that's exciting and not same old same old.
Lol so you want to fight archers and assassins who are sojo and just zephyr and phase shift. If you think is a problem now it will just get worse. As now you wont be able to kill assassins because now they will be able to get away even more easily.
Lol so you want to fight archers and assassins who are sojo and just zephyr and phase shift. If you think is a problem now it will just get worse. As now you wont be able to kill assassins because now they will be able to get away even more easily.
How would this get worse with Archers since they already all use this and Assassins would more than likely opt for more damage than delaying a fight, but yes I would welcome this since this game isn't balanced around 1v1 or 1v3.
1.) Red / Orange ML9 pets. Remember, the ML9 ability does not raise the con of the NPC. Therefore, the charm resist rate will be the same. Unless someone has tested resist rates on ML9 pets recently that suggests otherwise, this would be a very OP ability for Minstrels and Mentalists. Yellow ML9 pets already hit ridiculously hard but at a cost of being fairly easy to kill (except Aegis pets for some reason). We don't need a repeat of the orange Bonedancer pet.
2.) Group stealth bomb groups without sacrificing DPS. Considering the current meta, PBAOE is extremely powerful. Imagine a bomb group camping a choke point in group stealth without needing to sacrifice a spot for an assassin. You'd still have room for 5 Convokers, a Sojourner, and a Battlemaster or Perfecter. If you hate the Irish Sea guys now, then you'll hate them even more if they can just vanish on a whim (~8 seconds) and lay traps where ever they please.
3.) Berserkers would be completely replaced by Savages in Mid tank trains. Banelord is the main reason to have a Berserker over a Savage. If Savages were to get access to Banelord, then you'd effectively kill Berserkers in a group. You only need to look at the Skald to see how opening access to one ability can completely destroy a class in a group.
4.) Banelord dumping Assassins....I guess that's one way to bring back one-shot PA.
5.) Sojourner on every support class would get annoying quick. Between Zephyr and Phase Shift, everyone will have at least one get out of jail free card.
6.) Probably see less Warlords and Stormlords around except for maybe the Hero zerglings. Then I suppose you may see clouds in every nook and cranny of a keep.
Class balance is already a pain in the ass because of all the abilities available. Adding more just exacerbates the balance problem. Every time more "complexity" gets added to the game, a wave of players leaves. I'd rather see BS focus their attention on community / RvR events. But hey, may as well turn the ghost town into a tumbleweed farm. Sounds like a great plan.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I believe you are on point and slightly overdramatic with how devestating this would be on game play. Class balance, except for the stupid PBAE right now, has become a gear issue not an ability issue. This has been the underlying ignored issue since the Dragon Campaign. The amount of "everything" you can fit in a template; reverse procs, HoTs, buffers, arrogance charges, immunity's, etc., along with having capped bonuses to everything has made the RvR/class balance the toxic environment it is. Take away the gear, take away the set bonuses, take away all the absurd and you will finally get to a point of needing to fix abilities.
Yes you would have a serious increase in cheese combos but think about keep defense. This would lead to some seriously epic battles and brand new strategies of defending and attacking choke points. You would actually have to rely upon assassin's and archers utilizing their abilities to scout locations for a possible ambush.
I definitely see tons of crying and some rage quitting but the same could be said about the toning down of gear or the last pet changes. Although some rage quit a few came back. Point is you can't make everyone happy but EC did nothing for the community really and only pissed more people off. Perhaps adding in a bit of chaos may help calm the already volatile game environment.
I believe you are on point and slightly overdramatic with how devestating this would be on game play. Class balance, except for the stupid PBAE right now, has become a gear issue not an ability issue. This has been the underlying ignored issue since the Dragon Campaign. The amount of "everything" you can fit in a template; reverse procs, HoTs, buffers, arrogance charges, immunity's, etc., along with having capped bonuses to everything has made the RvR/class balance the toxic environment it is. Take away the gear, take away the set bonuses, take away all the absurd and you will finally get to a point of needing to fix abilities.
Yes you would have a serious increase in cheese combos but think about keep defense. This would lead to some seriously epic battles and brand new strategies of defending and attacking choke points. You would actually have to rely upon assassin's and archers utilizing their abilities to scout locations for a possible ambush.
I definitely see tons of crying and some rage quitting but the same could be said about the toning down of gear or the last pet changes. Although some rage quit a few came back. Point is you can't make everyone happy but EC did nothing for the community really and only pissed more people off. Perhaps adding in a bit of chaos may help calm the already volatile game environment.
Change for the sake of change is definitely in line with Broadsword's approach so your wish may be granted. I agree that gear creep is ridiculous but I don't agree that adding "chaos" is going to help the situation either. No change in ML combination is going to make keep fights "epic". You need active players for keep fights to be fun. None of this is going to bring players back but definitely has the potential to make more players quit.
Changes that don't piss players off are QoL and events. You know, things that should have been focused on immediately when Broadsword took over. I wish "old code" was a valid excuse back in 2014. Ywain might not be in its current situation.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
@Tyrantanic I agree and disagree as well. Yes @Broadsword style is to act first and ask for forgiveness as it fails or causes outrage. In doing so though even badly they have gained more subs for a limited time and retained some of them even after most quit. I think adding this type of randomness to the game will increase subs for those who want to try everything out and also cause a few to quit but even bad change for the sake of change is still attention, and at this point we should be thankful for anything.
@Kymatius
Have you seen anyone in this thread who liked your idea? Have you met anyone who liked your idea?
This will increase subs 0.
I guess topic is done.
I like the idea of opening a third ML path for each class. I believe that was talked about before but just never happened.
I also like the idea of opening most artifacts for all classes. Only a few would be A little crazy which could still be restricted but doing that could be fun/different nothing imo would be OP currently. Unless they plan on revamping toa some time in the future.
@Kroko I'm pretty sure this is a forum for discussion...good, bad, and terrible can qualify. My bad for suggesting something that you may not find fun.
Comments
There should be a difference between classes, and not all classes can do everything.
ML9 red pet sounds balanced.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Oh, and a Minstrel with a ML9 Barguest? That would be fun I suppose.
@opo66 true fact I forgot about Minst and Ment, however I have yet to meet a 50 Sun spec Mentalist most stop at 45 which highly affects resist on those particular red pets. I believe on the pulse charm spells using the ML9 from Convoker would also increase the pets level to resist the pulse which would just be a massacre to the charmer.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
But they did give them free SW.
Just saying that a ML9 red pet would be stupid. People cried about BDs having an ML9 OJ pet, imagine if that pet resisted half your spells.
It would be fun and add more flavor without over powering or imbalancing game play. Also with this change you could entice more players to pay for subscription by making it paid account only.
Open up champ levels and artifacts too! (maybe get rid of ml tokens too, gotta actually do them)
How would this get worse with Archers since they already all use this and Assassins would more than likely opt for more damage than delaying a fight, but yes I would welcome this since this game isn't balanced around 1v1 or 1v3.
1.) Red / Orange ML9 pets. Remember, the ML9 ability does not raise the con of the NPC. Therefore, the charm resist rate will be the same. Unless someone has tested resist rates on ML9 pets recently that suggests otherwise, this would be a very OP ability for Minstrels and Mentalists. Yellow ML9 pets already hit ridiculously hard but at a cost of being fairly easy to kill (except Aegis pets for some reason). We don't need a repeat of the orange Bonedancer pet.
2.) Group stealth bomb groups without sacrificing DPS. Considering the current meta, PBAOE is extremely powerful. Imagine a bomb group camping a choke point in group stealth without needing to sacrifice a spot for an assassin. You'd still have room for 5 Convokers, a Sojourner, and a Battlemaster or Perfecter. If you hate the Irish Sea guys now, then you'll hate them even more if they can just vanish on a whim (~8 seconds) and lay traps where ever they please.
3.) Berserkers would be completely replaced by Savages in Mid tank trains. Banelord is the main reason to have a Berserker over a Savage. If Savages were to get access to Banelord, then you'd effectively kill Berserkers in a group. You only need to look at the Skald to see how opening access to one ability can completely destroy a class in a group.
4.) Banelord dumping Assassins....I guess that's one way to bring back one-shot PA.
5.) Sojourner on every support class would get annoying quick. Between Zephyr and Phase Shift, everyone will have at least one get out of jail free card.
6.) Probably see less Warlords and Stormlords around except for maybe the Hero zerglings. Then I suppose you may see clouds in every nook and cranny of a keep.
Class balance is already a pain in the ass because of all the abilities available. Adding more just exacerbates the balance problem. Every time more "complexity" gets added to the game, a wave of players leaves. I'd rather see BS focus their attention on community / RvR events. But hey, may as well turn the ghost town into a tumbleweed farm. Sounds like a great plan.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Yes you would have a serious increase in cheese combos but think about keep defense. This would lead to some seriously epic battles and brand new strategies of defending and attacking choke points. You would actually have to rely upon assassin's and archers utilizing their abilities to scout locations for a possible ambush.
I definitely see tons of crying and some rage quitting but the same could be said about the toning down of gear or the last pet changes. Although some rage quit a few came back. Point is you can't make everyone happy but EC did nothing for the community really and only pissed more people off. Perhaps adding in a bit of chaos may help calm the already volatile game environment.
Change for the sake of change is definitely in line with Broadsword's approach so your wish may be granted. I agree that gear creep is ridiculous but I don't agree that adding "chaos" is going to help the situation either. No change in ML combination is going to make keep fights "epic". You need active players for keep fights to be fun. None of this is going to bring players back but definitely has the potential to make more players quit.
Changes that don't piss players off are QoL and events. You know, things that should have been focused on immediately when Broadsword took over. I wish "old code" was a valid excuse back in 2014. Ywain might not be in its current situation.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Have you seen anyone in this thread who liked your idea? Have you met anyone who liked your idea?
This will increase subs 0.
I guess topic is done.
I also like the idea of opening most artifacts for all classes. Only a few would be A little crazy which could still be restricted but doing that could be fun/different nothing imo would be OP currently. Unless they plan on revamping toa some time in the future.
This is why we can't have nice things.
But keep it going, i dont care.