Items ablatives and use items
In my opinion one of the biggest and consistent ways this game is exploited is use items ablative stacking and other fluff that has been added over the years.
The amount of items that have powerful abilities in game is just plain stupid we seriously need to tone them back.
I’m thinking have maybe 2 items on a template that have a use or a ablative it is not condusive to good game play and skews many fights to who has the best template and how they know how to exploit it.
Broadsword said they were going to tone them back but from my experience it’s still way to many.
The amount of items that have powerful abilities in game is just plain stupid we seriously need to tone them back.
I’m thinking have maybe 2 items on a template that have a use or a ablative it is not condusive to good game play and skews many fights to who has the best template and how they know how to exploit it.
Broadsword said they were going to tone them back but from my experience it’s still way to many.
Comments
If you don't have these items, Assassins one-shot you, and most other classes take only a few more seconds as well. If you attack someone with all that defensive gear you gonna do close to no damage. As a result that forces you to either PvE in a PvP game, or quit. I did the later.
It seems to have been put on the back burner by broadsword for me you should only have 2 use items in your template gear was never what daoc was about .
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Btw you’re a minstrel alt and have an insta chanting ablative ya goof.
Agree they the item creep was insane but they fixed it thankfully for the most part.
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Pd and AoM charges have been in the game since what, over 10 years?
"How they know to exploit it"? Put it on your bar and use it? It's not rocket science.
It's not a good attitude to level the game towards the bottom, not like that was a difficult mechanic to master or required expensive items...
My BD frequently got one-shot by Assassins when stepping outside the keep safety doors. So I made myself a Shadowblade and tried it in real PvP with the L50 starter gear. I did ~1400 opening hits on cloth casters. If I would have farmed some more gear for that guy, one-shots would have been very realistic.
Power creep is not an issue for experienced players, it is an issue for new players. If you know the game, know where to get stuff, and have the money to pay for it, you level to 50, grab your perfect gear within a day or less, then join RvR as a competitive player. If you are a new player however, then what happens is that you happily walk into RvR with your first L50 in the free 50 gear, and get killed within seconds by almost everyone, yet you deal close to no damage in return. Since that new player has no idea what's going on, he also has no idea how to fix it. Some people will then turn to other players for advice, some will simply quit the game.
Endgame however will always be balanced around available gear, which makes gear not useful, but simply a requirement to enter that content. While this is reasonable for PvE, as you fight nothing but math and numbers there anyways, it is a pain for PvP, because who wins PvP should never be determined by what gear you wear, but by how you play. Now if big ablatives are in the game, they will balance it by adding equally big damage boosts, which then effectively cancel out the defenses. They could also easily just not have ablatives and damage boosts in PvP and you would see the exact same numbers. 1 minus 1 is zero, 10 minus 10 is also zero. It doesn't matter how big these numbers are if they cancel out each other in the end anyways. And if they ever don't cancel out each other we call that an imbalance and it will be fixed eventually.
So if gear progression in PvP is an illusion anyways, then why scare away new players with it?
The only place where it has aome utility is when soloing, but I doubt the new player in Kings gear is venturing out alone expecting to kill people that have been playing for 10+ years.
The only items you should see in all templates are 10% melee resist charge and 10% magic resist charge items, which are worth like 5p each or 250 scales on the dragon merchant.
I wouldn't consider that game breaking....
Oh wait 250 isn't even 1/2 of what most casters are nuking for these days every 1.5 seconds.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
@Fateboi this is what I was talking about in another post about how these newer items changed the dynamic of the game
250 points in a whole fight doesn't matter. 250 points on every swing of the enemy is a serious balancing issue.
While I agree that the gear as well as damage creep has been out of control. Thankfully the team has moved things in the right direction.
Gear creep has always been an issue. Back in Si it was the reactive procs you had to farm from the highest level dungeons (like Sidi).
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
And as for overpowered realms I never mentioned hib once I mean seriously lot paranoid Hibbees here .
The closest thing to a stackable ablative is SoM/Stalwart cloak charges that are a % based proc that lasts 7-10 minutes. Maybe that’s what you’re encountering.
Most classes that don’t have self heals running heal bonus is pretty dumb.
Only sin that will potentially one shot a caster is a 2h SB. All can in a solid perf chain but that’s not one shotting. (Kings gear excluded
Heal procs/survivability is wild right now I agree. But templates and bounty points are so easy to get now especially with the reduced cost of bounty crafting. I can easily get 100k bps in a day. Bosses and mobs all around the game drop upwards of 15k BPs and a lot of them are soloable or done with a small group of friends.
There is no excuse to not get a toon temped in a weeks time.
Adapt and Overcome the game will always change.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
Should be 2 uses on a character period heal procs should be removed.
Groups should provide healing and if you run solo the class you play or a heal pot.
Really can’t see the opposition to that or are you saying in order to solo or run in a group you got to have your charges up.
I would suggest looking at artifacts though very outdated a lot of them not relevant to days play or just not used.
What is your agenda? You are spreading false information on the forums in order to get changes made to the game.
You even got @Menos to swallow your BS without any second thoughts. What are you expecting?
You are purposely using words like "exploit" and "abuse" while they are totally legitimate ways to play the game.
When I was experimenting with that Paladin in RvR I obviously lost most fights, but that was to be expected since it was a fresh char. However when I looked through the logs of some fights, I found out that in some cases nearly all my swings were reduced by ablatives and absorbs, effectively turning about 1500 damage into 300. That was one of the reasons I lost that fight. The other reason was that the char I attacked had about 12 RR more than I did at that time.
Now from the perspective of a player who has been playing DAoC since the beginning of time I can explain what happened, why I did barely scratch that guy and he wiped the floor with me, and I even know how to fix it. But from the perspective of a new player he would just learn that he has zero chance in PvP. And if that new player asks around what to do to fix that he is told that he has to farm gear and money for weeks first before he can properly participate in RvR. And then a few more month for the RR, and then he probably has a chance to win a 1:1 vs less experienced players.
And that's why I said: the problem is not 250 ablative, the problem is if 250 ablative are happening on every swing. It frustrates new players to a point where they simply quit the game. Today there are many more alternatives than existed back in the beginnings of DAoC, so players who are told "Yeah you need to invest a lot of time before you can have fun in this game" will simply quit and play something else. One of the secrets of the success of Fortnite is that players can have instant fun and PvP almost exclusively depends on player skill.
While DAoC is not Fortnite (and hopefully never becomes it), there is still a lesson to be learned here: over the years the power creep has lead to a point where the entrance fee to RvR is so high, that players rather quit then to pay the time. Since gear however should always be irrelevant in PvP it could also be removed (and classes balanced accordingly) and everyone would benefit from that. It would be a great boon for this game if 15 years of power creep are significantly reduced and the entrance fee for RvR therefore lowered massively, because without new players joining the game every now and then PvP will starve to death, as you cannot PvP alone.
Nothing really needs to be changed from an items perspective. The only thing that bothers me is heal bonuses affecting heal procs. Ablatives are fine and most soloers run Shades of Mist or the Otherworldly Cloak for the ablative proc /use. SoM has been in the game for 16 years. Take the time to learn what's available and how it works before crying foul.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
But a revert isn't gonna happen unless they make a new server. Broadsword thinks they made everything balanced and fair as far as their "new" gear goes. I still think the new gear is dumb AF, no matter how easy it is to get
Tbh they could remove ablatives and I couldn't care less. However, ablatives are good for soloers to deal with multiple attackers. Is that exploiting? No, it's simply designing a template to have better survivability.
Is the goal of itemization to dumb it down so much that players that take the time to read and think what items they should be using have no advantage over the new player that doesn't have a clue?
Why, in your altruistic outburst for nerfing itemization, don't you simply inform new players how to use ablatives? Then, when they get better, they can simply look tonintegrate these items into their templates?
Hostility? You're asking to remove stuff from the game that everybody has access to, because you feel it's what, too hard for you? Too hard on new players? Also you want to remove charges, but look at artifacts and change those charges so we can have EVEN MORE charges?
Have you taken any of the tutorials recently? Ran through all the town quests? There's side quests breaking down how charges and procs work. There's powerful items in game, and new players don't know how to get them, so lets just remove them. No, lets have an centralized official resource for charges and powerful items. Your argument is new players won't know about this stuff, so let's just show them.
Problem solved.
Rule #1 in game design: no one reads the tutorial. Essentially you can say: if your feature needs a tutorial, it is badly implemented.
Now charging a 18 year old game for not following modern game design is a bit harsh, so the question should be: how to get new players into RvR? By showing them a book to read and a tutorial to follow on how to gear up for it, or by removing actually irrelevant gear? Because the only reason ablatives are a requirement in the first place is because players do too much damage in PvP with all the upgraded gear and ablatives just compensate that.
To not repeat myself unnecessarily: I am sure that a new server with current patch state and gear limited to Classic/SI (and adjusted damage values from players in PvP) would be very successful. Because in my opinion gear power creep is the #1 problem this game currently faces.
Wow. I don't have anything else to say, you don't even want to show any new players how to do anything, you're part of the problem. Let's not have tutorials for a 20 year old game!
It's not a book either, why don't you go take a look at them? When I play a new MMO I take the time to do the research and look specs/items/sets up, as I imagine most people do when they want to get better at something. I wouldn't roll out a new server over gear, I'd roll it out over realm ranks. You're asking them to get rid of stuff we all have access to because *YOU* view it as too hard for new players, yet everybody has access to it and none of it is hard to get.
This purest form of Daoc is subjective opinion sorry.
Per everyone there is no ablative stacking it’s been gone for over three years ago.
BS has thankfully nerfed heal procs and the Curse gear is available cheap AF via bountycrafting.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
I remember the double pbt exploit that went on in hib for years the di that was alllways up that exploit was just recently ,the vamp double shield with the kings weapon the speed hacks the radar the heal procs and temps that make you god mode.theres some bullshit going on and we will be the last people to know you wrap all this crap up in your good players and your just taking your time to play the game to it’s fullest potential I call it cheating plain and simple.
Really can’t see your problem with reducing any of this stuff unless you got something to hide pretty tired of the dumbed down argument the game is dumb when in order to compete you have to have the right items and uses what happened to just playing the classes to much fluff for too many cheaters to exploit.
And the outrage here proves it.
You need a template and some tips? I would be more than happy to help you out all you have to do is ask no reason to make a fuss on here. Sh*t I’ll even keep it secret PM me on discord if you want. I would be glad to explain the news toys and what you should look for.
(That invitation is extended to anyone that wants help)
You hard headed folks gotta learn to adapt to the changing game as everyone else does.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
Just guessing but on your minstrel your damage is sub par and easily negated?
If this is the case then it’s been this way since Old Frontiers as well.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
I didn't say that. The reason behind that game design rule is that you always should consider implementing features in a way that the player learns them automatically while playing the game, and does not have to stop playing the game to read a tutorial. Because most players are eager to play the game and not to read tutorials.
No they don't. Most people jump head first into a game, expect to understand the basics while playing, and if they don't they curse at the game and uninstall. I agree that this is not the smartest way to approach the game, but then many people are not outstandingly smart, and honestly some just want to play a game and not study it.
But then, as I said, you cannot just rewrite DAoC by modern game design standards, that would require a DAoC 2. But what you can do is to try to fix major issues while regarding modern game design standards. So if you open up the game to free players, and a lot less than expected actually join, the question is: why the rest did not. Among many other reasons the complexity of gearing up in DAoC to be even remotely competitive in RvR is too high for new players. So either give them better "I don't know what I am doing" kings starter gear, or lower the gear complexity overall. Long-term I'd do the later. Longer tutorial texts however won't get more people into this game.
This is not a pick-up-and-play type video game, it's an MMORPG. There are going to be some mechanics that need to be explained, not remove the ones that need to be explained.
You got this information from where? All the new players you polled playing DAoC?
You think the reason there wasn't a high increase in population is because of gear? Again you want to dumb down something THAT'S ACTUALLY SIMPLE.
example:
Oh look, I see this item has a charge on it, let me delve it to see what it does. Ah, mez block charge, okay, nice. Let me use it! Sweet I have mez block up! Let me try and use another piece of gear!!! Oh, it says I must wait 1 minute 30 seconds, ok no problem.
This is what you feel is too hard and needs to be removed? Check your gear and use it. You guys are literally complaining other players use items you already have just don't use.
I played older setting servers, and the gearing process is simpler, but incredibly boring.
One of the reasons World of Warcraft became such an incredible success is because it is a pick-up-and-play type of MMORPG.
New players be like: "You can delve items?" "What is a mez?" "Why did I got mezzed even though I have a mez-block item?" "What do you mean I have to use it?!"
Me too. And there is no need to remove templating, all they got to do is to lower the distance between a fresh player in kings gear and a perfectly templated player to a point where gear is not the main reason you won or lost a fight. Right now a perfectly templated player is going to squish anyone in kings gear without even breaking a sweat, and that frustrates new players to a point where too many of them rather quit than to delve into the (from their perspective) complex mechanics.
Now if that distance was more like 10% then new players would no longer be frustrated, yet templating is still an important thing that you can do if you like it or want to min/max your character.
WoW's success is more attributed to the fact it's a theme-park pve mmo based on a beloved franchise. Don't even try and state that WoW is 'pick up and play' at level cap,there's a huge amount of crap you need to grind before you can be reasonably considered viable for any of the end game raids. WoW requires a significantly longer time commitment than DAoC does. (That may change with their upcoming expansion that changes how the content progresses, but that remains to be seen)
That's not to say some of your comments don't have merit - DAoC suffers from an extremely dated UI/UX. One of the proposed changes post EC was to revamp the UI and the UX of DAoC. I haven't heard differently, so I'm expecting that to be in the near future? I suspect, based on prior history, we should be getting a producers letter at the end of the year outlining near-future plans. So, i'd be curious to see what's the status on this and the other post EC changes.
The other parts of your feedback isn't something I feel I need to expand on, I flat out disagree about the template / gearing complaints, as it's significantly easier (and too easy IMO) to gear a character with the new BP crafting system and rates introduced in 1.126.
Ablatives and heal procs were already toned down as was stated many times here. Toning them down further would just make it so certain classes can't compete. If fights are over in a few seconds it's no fun for one side and only a little fun for the other.
I think uses and templating is in a really good place right now, there's a lot of class specific/item specific stuff that people can use to modify their toon based on playstyle, etc. Remove that and the game would be a lot more boring.
Templating is what made me fall in love with this game. The thought you have to put into each individual template to fit not only that class's skills, but your own play style is just amazing.
The part that ruined it for me, within the last 3 years, was before OW/Curse+beyond, there was sacrifices that had to be made. Very few people could make the "perfect" template. Hybrids sometimes were impossible... Now, every class can have everything capped and with the same core items. @Broadsword made everything cookie-cutter...
Remember when you would look on the boards and see a certain class's template with 50 completely different variations with items such as artifacts and random items? No template was the same. Now they all have the same core group of items and, well, that ruined the creativity for me and many others
The gear/templates /OW/Curse raids have never been easier in the history of DAOC. You literally picked up three turkey legs and turned it in for 11K Bps.
Therefore it took one hour to craft your curse recipe. This is different then running a 0-8 that takes 2-3 hours and then an additional 1-1.5 hours for the 9/10 (if you could even find one).
For a random chance at your [Curse] chapter 9 set items.
[not needed]
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters