I honestly don’t know what the zergs think having a 30 minute timer is going to do. There are literally zero benefits to having a realm timer. For those who think that people are swapping mid siege to defend a keep are honestly delusional. Just seems like you are looking for an excuse as to why you can’t take a keep. You’d rather have no resistance. You want to talk about realm pride? It does not exist anymore. Back in 2001 zergs would go at it for hours, taking/defending keeps, fighting each other in open field. Now, zergs just avoid each other until they have a much larger force.
The biggest issue is you’re taking feedback and votes from a bunch people who have little understanding of game balance and all they want is what they believe will benefit them the most and not the game in general. If I need my roof inspected I’m not going to ask a plumber. Not sure why Broadsword is even entertaining some of these people.
I really hope Broadsword recognizes what a massive mistake implementing a realm timer will be. Not for my own personal play style, but for the game. The issue is not the realm timer but the player base. If it really is the case that people swap realms during sieges then it’s not the realm timers fault but the player’s instead. Why punish the solo, small, and 8man play styles for it.
Realm timer will not restore “realm pride”, no matter how much you think it will. About 8 months ago, Beeyawnsay hosted a 50+ draft night where there were 6 groups (3 per realm) playing for hours one night. Instead of focusing on restoring pride in your realm, which will never happen considering almost everyone has established toons on every realm, we should be focusing on creating a sense of community. That is what those drafts did. People playing alongside people they never played with before. At present, the 8v8 scene has stimulated more groups to set up fights and to try increase action. What will a realm timer do? If your argument is to go take keeps while you wait for people in other realms to log on, do you really think that will do anything? People will log on, see all the keeps belonging to one realm, and switch to that realm before earning any rps.
DAoC has been my all time favorite game and it’s disappointing to see this type of decisions being made. I just really hope this isn’t the nail in the coffin because I can guarantee that more people will stop playing than start playing or return because of this change.
As for the universal currency I think it’s a good idea but I do think some consideration needs to be taking into how these can be earned outside of just DF and frontiers. While this is a pvp centric game, there are a lot of people that would rather farm their currency in other ways than pvp.
The problem is that everyone wants their own play style to be protected and completely forget this is an open sandbox RvR game. If you want a strict 8v8 or 1v1 or 4v4 then maybe advocate for a proper solution: sPvP. People zerg because they want to play casually. People set up fights because they want to play competitively. Mix the two and welcome to the **** show we have now. You will not appease both styles in the same area.
I like timers specifically to keep people from swapping onto a lvl 1 toon to **** talk. Granted, with EC coming out, that may not work since I imagine people will just roll random free accounts for that purpose. Considering one could circumvent a timer (i.e. multiple accounts), I don't see it being effective against swapping. I'm personally against the constant swapping since it's not just the 8mans who do it.
Regarding the low population, that may not change even with EC + timers since a large populace quit due to poor class balance patches coupled with unnecessary PvE campaigns. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
@Gavner by 3/3s I mean Mid, alb and hib. each being 1/3. Some people only play a certain realm. :"Realm Pride" and not play the other realms. it has been stated here in this post. for 30 min that I can't log in I am being penalized.
population is a big issue. I can't tell you how populatations are figured but I have seen on many instances where when we log off Alb, hibs have a 50 % bonus and when we log in there is no bonus. granted when our 8 switch its about a 15+ char switch when you count buff bots. so lets say 2 groups log off and change realms, that can cause a realm that had a bonus to lose a bonus or a realm to gain a bonus that previously didn't.
also its a love hate relationship. lol
@Brut noone said I am leet. I am far from it and never calm to be. I agree with you. we have hit a zerg with a zerg, we have hit a zerg with other realms, we have defended and took keps/towers with zergs and we have fought ( got ran over) by zergs on our 8 man, we would rather roam as 8 and fight other groups. but when there is no action we follow the action just like your zerg does. but we also try to get action by switching realms.
Agreed. Don't know why Brut is triggered by the term 8v8. It is what the game was built on.. When there is quite literally *NOTHING* online except a zerg its log off the game for the night or try to kill them with others. This is when 8man isn't even possible. While 8v8 is our preferred playstyle, I still would much rather play live DAOC than do anything else, including logging off because there is nothing else to fight....
The biggest issue is you’re taking feedback and votes from a bunch people who have little understanding of game balance and all they want is what they believe will benefit them the most and not the game in general. If I need my roof inspected I’m not going to ask a plumber. Not sure why Broadsword is even entertaining some of these people.
It is true, Broadsword always gets to hear how they never "listen to the community" as if the community is this one unanumous voice of reason, which is riddiculous. Recently Broadsword has tried to do what they can to appease the vocal majority on the forums say by giving runies ST's, buffing tics (and subsequently nerfing tics) and it's always followed by more complaints than before. Next we'll have speedwarps removed and healers running around with 209 spec nukes.
People act as if what the majority wants is what would generally be the best for the game. The consumer of a product seldom knows what the best way of creating a better product is. We ask what good a 30 minute timer will do for the game? Group mentality has convinced the zergers that realm timers are a good idea for them and that they have nothing to lose. I doubt any of them have given a seconds thought as to what actual effects a timer could, may, or will have on the game, even negative effects on their own playstyle. That is not to say that I myself know for certain what will happen, I can only speculate. I do however know that there will be quite a few people inconvenienced by it, whilst I see no guarantees of the 'good' it will cause. If there was some kind of clear 'greater good' that was achieved by doing this, that would be enough to ease my mind about having timers implemented, but I don't see it, on the contrary I can only imagine the harm it will cause.
First of all, my primary language is not english, so if anything of what i say comes off in a hostile way its not ment as such.
Work continues on Endless Conquest and we have a few updates for you about our current timeline and plans!
Right now, it's looking like we'll be launching EC in patch 1.126 early this Fall. A lot can still change but our current track would have us launch 1.126 in October.
Personally i think your betting on the wrong horse here.
For fun i send out a email a few weeks ago, too all players i have played with since 2001 on EU and US, that i still had the email on, that i didnt know if was active on DAoC and asked if they would return to have some fun in DAoC,
when it goes free to play.
Of the returned replies, 0 are comming back, cause to them the problem was never about the 15 dollars a month, it did however have everything to do with cash shop, class changes, abla stacking being replaced with heal proc and heal / use madness cause they want neither of them, just to name the most common replies. ( Some ofc quit cause of RL and are not returning )
No amount of free to play would make any of them come back, cause the reason they quit are still there.
So i though i would ask some of the guildies about DAoC on more modern free to play mmo's that i play, of those asked none wanted to join a old mmo for different reasons.
I hope im wrong and that free to play will save it all, maybe i just play with the wrong crowd.
[*]Realm timers will make their return!
Personally i dont care much about the realm timer, makes no difference to me, i just find it abit funny that you release a realm timer with free to play.
What are there to prevent people from making multiple accounts per realm and freely ignore the timer ?
Locked by email adress per account ? you can make a million different emails in 5 mins.
IP ? Dynamic IPs, Parent and kid, Husband and wife, etc wont be able to play different realms, VPN's.
Name ? yeah we all know how that ends with people and their 13 fake cousins living under the same roof.
RL adress ? so only 1 person per household can play ?
So basicly a realm timer, would just be a punishment for subscribers as it wouldnt affect people playing free on multiple accounts ?
Maybe im missing something here, please do enlighten me.
[*]Alternate currencies will be streamlined so that bounty points are now the only major alternate currency.
Atlantean Glass, Dragon Scales, Aurulite and Emerald, Sapphire, Diamond, and Blood Seals will no longer drop for any players, but pre-existing alternative currency can still be spent normally.
With this change we'll be adding in some new ways to purchase Dragon Scale-related and Emerald, Sapphire, and Diamond Seal-related items for bounty points. Glass and Aurulite-related items can already be purchased for bounty points or crafted via bountycrafting.
Alternate currencies that are not already on the Currency Exchange NPC will not be affected or removed.
With this change we'll be adding in new ways to earn LOTS of bounty points in Darkness Falls that will help reinvigorate the infamous dungeon as a meaningful RvR objective!
How are removing options for how people can do things and get templates an incentive for people to come back to the game ?
As an example, during EU time we all know hero runs a pretty big BG, so DF are pretty much always locked to hib during eu times, why should any new or returning EU players join anything else then hib ? Getting a template will on alb and mid, be an even bigger uphill battle then it is now ? Same goes for earning plats.
So instead of balancing the realms you widen the gap ?
So much like the addition of RvR quests where you get faster and easier RP's, that we all know the masses love, by zerging stuff on the realm with the biggest zerg, the realm with the biggest zerg will now also have easier access to items ?
Personally i love your DF idea, but at the same time i hate your idea of killing off options of doing things in other ways.
[*]King's Armor stats will be receiving a major boost to help new and returning players get up to speed quickly!
[*]Returning player quests will be updated so that ALL characters can receive them again, so long as they qualify, and their rewards will be updated and improved! [/list]
Lovely !
Anyways thats my opinion if anyone should care lol.
I work in product development (sporting goods) and the last thing you do is ask your consumers how they would improve the product. First, because they don't know and second because they only have their extremely narrow view of their own problems.
What you ask them is what are the problems they are having with your product. Your jon is to find solutions to these problems wighout hindering the othed consumers that do not have issues with it.
I'm starting to sound like a broken record (because I wrote that in about 15 different threads), but realm timers are a cheap solution requested by a portion of your users that will have negative consequences on other users.
Also, based on other comments above, realm timers wont even fully solve the issues that people expressed their concerns about.
I hope BS actually asks questions and tries to understand the realm problems currently in the game and try to come up with solutions that solve these specific problems.
People talk about relics, bg swapping, swap realms to trash talk, etc. All these can be solved without a realm timer.
I see this as the initial plan with built in opportunities for change as steps are implemented. DAOC needs to attract new players and hold on the current ones. Getting people to return after they made the choice to go is probably the hardest task of all. Any game needs population and so ideally the game mechanics help build population.
- Realm timers should help stop the people who literally switch after they have helped open the keep door. It might build realm loyalty. What the optimal timer needs to be, time will tell. Some will love it. It can be altered as needed.
- Single currency - Less confusing and less taking up backpack space. I do like that. If I can do things in Atlantis, DF, dungeons and the quest reward is BPs then I will go there as well as do the quests in RvR. I want to be able to get some of the trophies that we can't get right now so I'd be farming the Deadlands if I could.
I didn't see anything on the list that said I could turn Brut into a bat for 24 hours or throw pies at players. I was going to rage about that but my kitten is crawling on the keyboard so I'll just say I'm happy to see a date for the change and I will do all that I can to help make things work.
It will be interesting thats for sure, but i'm in the boat of "it doesnt effect me, coz i only play one realm now" but it is interesting to read whats been wrote from those that switch realms every 20 minutes and those complaining about not finding a fight for 30 minutes.
Well for those of us in normal play time zones, we literally have 3 more months of a game we’ve been playing for 18 years. Then rip. Guess I’ll go back to school???
- Single currency - Less confusing and less taking up backpack space. I do like that. If I can do things in Atlantis, DF, dungeons and the quest reward is BPs then I will go there as well as do the quests in RvR.
Are you 100% sure that PvE stuff like Atlantis is going to reward BPs? I wish that was the case but I'm afraid it's not.
Well for those of us in normal play time zones, we literally have 3 more months of a game we’ve been playing for 18 years. Then rip. Guess I’ll go back to school???
Oh quit making it seem like the end of the world. You will be fine with the realm timers will come population because the game will be FREE you know people will come back and try it out. And with that population boost will reduce your "Need" to hop realms so much. Just quit b*tching and see what happens. When it's live and you don't like it then complain.
Well for those of us in normal play time zones, we literally have 3 more months of a game we’ve been playing for 18 years. Then rip. Guess I’ll go back to school???
Oh quit making it seem like the end of the world. You will be fine with the realm timers will come population because the game will be FREE you know people will come back and try it out. And with that population boost will reduce your "Need" to hop realms so much. Just quit b*tching and see what happens. When it's live and you don't like it then complain.
lol this is the end of the world for 8mans.... I can confidently say that as playing in an 8man every single night. I know what the action is. You do not and cannot understand the implications because you are not in the 8v8 community. So in short, stay in your lane.
However, I hope you are totally right and the FTP brings so many new players to generate more action. That would just be amazing and then we wouldn't need to swap realms because there is only 1 group out on a single realm.. I'm gonna go ahead and make a very realistic assumption that FPT won't improve the population, or if so, maybe just a small spike for a short time. Ppl are not not playing DAOC in 2019 because of $15...
I guess all of us 8mans could just unsub now and create 3 FTP accounts for all 3 realms. EZ dodge on realm timers and don't have to pay $15! I think I just found our fix boys.
lol this is the end of the world for 8mans.... I can confidently say that as playing in an 8man every single night. I know what the action is. You do not and cannot understand the implications because you are not in the 8v8 community. So in short, stay in your lane.
Lol then you're a bigger fool then you think and I doubt anyone will miss you. Secondly you have no clue what "Lane" I play in and to assume I don't know "Your Action" is moronic. Stop making yourself look stupid.
However, I hope you are totally right and the FTP brings so many new players to generate more action. That would just be amazing and then we wouldn't need to swap realms because there is only 1 group out on a single realm.. I'm gonna go ahead and make a very realistic assumption that FPT won't improve the population, or if so, maybe just a small spike for a short time. Ppl are not not playing DAOC in 2019 because of $15...
F2P will bring more people and you're absolutely right people haven't been quitting because the 15$ sub. They have been quitting because of this constant downhill trend BS has had on the games balance/economy and thus
population.
if so, maybe just a small spike for a short time. Ppl are not not playing DAOC in 2019 because of $15
It's almost as if they're making changes to improve on those problems with the release and after it... People will be able to try these changes without having to pay for sub therefore not having any downside. Which in turn increases population.
Wipe your tears pull up your huggies and wait until EC to make these "confident" assumptions.
lol this is the end of the world for 8mans.... I can confidently say that as playing in an 8man every single night. I know what the action is. You do not and cannot understand the implications because you are not in the 8v8 community. So in short, stay in your lane.
Lol then you're a bigger fool then you think and I doubt anyone will miss you. Secondly you have no clue what "Lane" I play in and to assume I don't know "Your Action" is moronic. Stop making yourself look stupid.
However, I hope you are totally right and the FTP brings so many new players to generate more action. That would just be amazing and then we wouldn't need to swap realms because there is only 1 group out on a single realm.. I'm gonna go ahead and make a very realistic assumption that FPT won't improve the population, or if so, maybe just a small spike for a short time. Ppl are not not playing DAOC in 2019 because of $15...
F2P will bring more people and you're absolutely right people haven't been quitting because the 15$ sub. They have been quitting because of this constant downhill trend BS has had on the games balance/economy and thus
population.
if so, maybe just a small spike for a short time. Ppl are not not playing DAOC in 2019 because of $15
It's almost as if they're making changes to improve on those problems with the release and after it... People will be able to try these changes without having to pay for sub therefore not having any downside. Which in turn increases population.
Wipe your tears pull up your huggies and wait until EC to make these "confident" assumptions.
lol this is the end of the world for 8mans.... I can confidently say that as playing in an 8man every single night. I know what the action is. You do not and cannot understand the implications because you are not in the 8v8 community. So in short, stay in your lane.
Lol then you're a bigger fool then you think and I doubt anyone will miss you. Secondly you have no clue what "Lane" I play in and to assume I don't know "Your Action" is moronic. Stop making yourself look stupid.
Instead of calling people morons, why don't you explain what your experience in this matter is. Your assurances that our playstyle "will be fine" aren't very convincing without first giving any general hint that you know what you're talking about.
What is your "lane" i.e what playstyles do you mainly partake in?
You claim to know what 8man action is like, how have you come to know this?
While we're at it what's your stance on the timers? Do you wish to see them implemented, and if so to what end?
Or... you can read what was said again because clearly you missed some things I said.
"Population boost will reduce your "Need" to hop realms so much." Is a point I made... and holds. You won't have to swap realms if EC and the F2P model succeed and population picks up . With that, I said quit your crying until EC is released and we see how well it does. Then if population doesn't pick up you guys can speak your minds on it.
While we're at it what's your stance on the timers? Do you wish to see them implemented, and if so to what end?
Low population timers are a bad idea swapping is sometimes the only way to create action out there.
I swap realms when I am roaming solo all the time for that very reason. If I am roaming finding nothing but my own realm I will swap and fight them. It makes sense. But with higher population you won't have to nearly as much.
High population I don't see them as a horrible thing. I am also not in favor of anything higher than 15 minutes. That gives enough time for Groups/BGs to attack their objective before certain people and groups can swap and defend for easy RPs. But honestly with how irrelevant relics are now I could give two sh*ts anymore.
Having population dramatically increased by EC is an optimistic view point, one that we all hope for, but an optimistic one none the less, one there is no guarantee for.
Telling us to quit crying and wait is basically handwaving peoples legitimate concerns away. The main point anyway is that a timer would be bad for the game, increased population or not, not neccesarily just us. There is also the point that if EC does increase the population, but timers turn out to be more hurtful than helpful to the game, the results will be masked.
While we're at it what's your stance on the timers? Do you wish to see them implemented, and if so to what end?
Low population timers are a bad idea swapping is sometimes the only way to create action out there.
I swap realms when I am roaming solo all the time for that very reason. If I am roaming finding nothing but my own realm I will swap and fight them. It makes sense. But with higher population you won't have to nearly as much.
High population I don't see them as a horrible thing. I am also not in favor of anything higher than 15 minutes. That gives enough time for Groups/BGs to attack their objective before certain people and groups can swap and defend for easy RPs. But honestly with how irrelevant relics are now I could give two sh*ts anymore.
Seems reasonable. If pop was high and action was reliable no matter which realm you played then timers wouldn't be as devastating as many have predicted, however with a high pop are timers even necessary?
You mention groups swapping to defend against zergs as something that should be fixed with the help of timers, but if you're in Herorius shoes and taking keeps is your main source of action when Anna isn't on, having less defenders would be detrimental in that case no?
If there is to be a timer, agreed 15 minutes is reasonable, would rather see 10, 30 is way too long and not needed.
Having population dramatically increased by EC is an optimistic view point, one that we all hope for, but an optimistic one none the less, one there is no guarantee for. The statement also does not answer any of the questions I directly asked you, which if you don't want to answer is fine.
I have ran in 8m more than a few times (not randoms) and I primarily solo now. I used to run in the zerg. I have played all aspects of the game and can say I am not great at any of them. But I know and have seen over years what most view points are from the different play styles. I have close friends in all of the play styles. Including friends that are stealth zergers *Gags*.
The reason for the low population is because of the game not the payment I have already stated that. And with EC comes fixes/changes and those are what will hopefully bring the players back... The free is just an added bonus that guarantees people can and will come test the changes.
I say stop complaining because you haven't seen what will happen and neither have I. If you already have such little faith that population will come back why are you even still here complaining in the first place? How about you let the changes happen then give your feedback? I love this game just as much as the next guy and the last thing I want is to watch EC flop. Only way to fix it now is to change it dramatically and spark interest in it once more.
I think all that he is saying is stop being so dramatic and wait for it to come out before you cry so much about it. I do not even get what you guys think you will achieve here. They will obviously roll out the timers either way and then look to see what the feedback will be. You have no way of knowing what impact EC will have on population. Impounded is one side of the spectrum and you are the other. Either way its happening why not just wait and see how it works out. If your predictions are correct send feedback to broadsword with proof of the negative impact. If they ignore you then quit or get more of your 8 man community to send feedback until they need to address the concerns. Right now you are just being negative and deterring potential players from returning which is counter productive to everyone's hope of an increased population.
It is true none of us know what the future may hold. We do however already know with absolute certainty that no matter what the outcome is it doesn't change the fact that realm timers will be an inconvenience for some of the playerbase who likes to swap realms. After all that is the intent behind having it implemented. The only question is how severe the inconvenience will be. Either way the feedback will be the same in the future as it is right now, and to reiterate some of the points brought up, @Shoke said it best:
"...realm timers are a cheap solution requested by a portion of your users that will have negative consequences on other users.
Also, based on other comments above, realm timers wont even fully solve the issues that people expressed their concerns about.
I hope BS actually asks questions and tries to understand the realm problems currently in the game and try to come up with solutions that solve these specific problems.
People talk about relics, bg swapping, swap realms to trash talk, etc. All these can be solved without a realm timer.
By showing our concern for the proposed idea of realm timers we are imploring Broadsword to come up with a better solution, one that would make everyone happy. Waiting for EC to see what happens is not the play here, there is no reason an imperfect solution such as this needs to be implemented in the first place.
I’m pretty sure that’s the point to make it inconvenient af to swap realms. Although, you can just wait the timer out and swap regardless...
Feel free to pve and or swap to an alternate account. GL
Ok I know everyone is saying just 8 man's don't want realm timers blah blah but just throwing this out there, I frequently solo on mulitple realms when the action is bad, or while I'm waiting for people to log on. then I'll switch to join some friends. Realm timers ruin the ability for someone who wants to play casually to get meaningful gameplay in a short time span. What if I get one kill on alb but there's really nothing but a bunch of albs out, now I'm stuck there for 30 minutes. Sweet. Way more likely to log and do something better with my time, maybe come back in a few hours if it's my day off. Maybe I get that one kill, but again, action is slow, and some friends logged hib and want me to join, now I'm stuck again. What am I supposed to do?
And while we're ranting can we do something about the RAMPANT stealth zerging? They're some of the strongest classes in the game and yet they're allowed to run 16 and stealth up healers with them. It's stupid. That **** is making more people quit then realm timers. Imagine you're trying this game for the first time and you run into that crap. Its annoying and shocking for a new player to get ripped by 1 stealthers, let alone 16 of them grped up killing solos. Allowing stealth to be so densely grped is bad for population and bad for the community. Nobody wants to die to that. Assassin's already have all the tools they could possibly want for a solo class. People who don't think they're strong enough are BAD and just are not playing them right.
Can confirm 80% of my experience with daoc as of recent involves me logging in buffing porting and logging out within 10 minutes because there is a stealth zerg camping milegates and safe paths ruining any action for solo/small. No point logging in for me with my current play style.
Any way you slice it, the ENTIRE 8v8 community (still a very prevalent portion of the community and one I would hope BS still cares about), PLUS even some soloers now have expressed the detriment this would do for their daoc experience. Yes, broadsword, the ENTIRE 8v8 community. Not just my 1 group. They have also said they would probably just end up doing something else with their time when they can’t swap to kill enemies or join friends for 30 minutes.
Broadsword- This change will only lose subs and not gain a single one. We all are very excited and hopeful that EC gains us some more players but why would you strategically try to put both of these huge changes into one patch so you can’t effectively monitor the implications of decisions. Or is there no strategy involved in your decision making regarding this? Do you want to make such impactful decisions regardless of what the players are saying without having proper data to back you up? Or are you purposely skewing it?
Knowing this, if realm timers truly go live this is not a company that supports or listens to an entire segment of their population and I am confused why anyone would think we would want to support them in return.
Way to go BS, triggering snowflakes( @xuu ) who want their instant gratification RPs! I love how it's your way or the highway, man. Give it a chance, stop whining, and let's approach it with a modicum of hope and positivity.
Way to go BS, triggering snowflakes( @xuu ) who want their instant gratification RPs! I love how it's your way or the highway, man. Give it a chance, stop whining, and let's approach it with a modicum of hope and positivity.
We have stressed this literally a thousand times in this thread, this patch literally caters to you and your play style. Of course your'e telling the entire 8v8 subsegment of the population to suck it up.
@xuu This doesn't cater to anyone in particular. This game began with realm timers. They were a GOOD thing. They are needed now.
Your group is NOT going to fall apart because of this. You might not get 100k on every realm in one night....so what? You guys are elite, right? Work it out. Find something that works.... ADAPT....OVERCOME. For God's sake though, man. Stop whining. How about let's build the excitement...the anticipation...that this could be a good thing(EC) for the game we all love.
The only players in this thread showing no sense of compromise are the zergers like @INACA@Fateboi@Snaillyn and @Brut. They all say that timers are needed while they won't gain anything from them aside the satisfaction of pissing other people off that they despise for some reason.
I think anybody affected negatively by the timers have pretty much all said that something was needed but that timers were not a good solution for that.
We proposed alternative solutions to fix very specific issues and concerns while the other side of the conversation are just saying "fck you I want my timers"
The only players in this thread showing no sense of compromise are the zergers like @INACA@Fateboi@Snaillyn and @Brut. They all say that timers are needwd while they won't gain anything from aside drom the satisfaction of pissing other people off.
I think anybody affected negatively by the timers have pretty much all said that something was needed but that timers were not a good solution for that.
Then offer up a different alternative instead of the constant bawling about a 30 min timer.
- problem : people swapping for relics
solution: when you swap realms you are tagged with a buff (30 min duration) that makes you take extreme damage if within 5000 units of a flamed relic keep.
-problem : people abusing region/advice/lfg chats by creating new characters.
Solution: don't allow players below level 10 tonuse public chats.
Problem: BG swapping in general
Solution: when swapping realms you are flagged with a buff that reduces your RPs by 75% for 30 minutes. You cannot get quest credit until that buff wears out.
See, easy and didn't require realm timers.
Let us swap realms to balance out action with the penalty of reduced RPs.
I couldn't care less about RPs, I have 2 hra in an evening to have some fun playing a game I love, I don't want to spend 30 minutes of that waiting on a stupid realm timers some zergers thought would save the game for some reason.
:30 MIN is way to short or a time span. Adding a realm timer is great and should have never been taken out / disabled in the first place. 8v8 community lmao BOI. you mean the group of people who set up fights, then work together when a group not in the CLICK finds them and joins the fight to attack the 3 realm joining the fight might leave?
- problem : people swapping for relics
solution: when you swap realms you are tagged with a buff (30 min duration) that makes you take extreme damage if within 5000 units of a flamed relic keep.
-problem : people abusing region/advice/lfg chats by creating new characters.
Solution: don't allow players below level 10 tonuse public chats.
Problem: BG swapping in general
Solution: when swapping realms you are flagged with a buff that reduces your RPs by 75% for 30 minutes. You cannot get quest credit until that buff wears out.
See, easy and didn't require realm timers.
Let us swap realms to balance out action with the penalty of reduced RPs.
I couldn't care less about RPs, I have 2 hra in an evening to have some fun playing a game I love, I don't want to spend 30 minutes of that waiting on a stupid realm timers some zergers thought would save the game for some reason.
Those all seem way more complicated, and unrealistic to implement..... Realm timers > everything in this comment.
:30 MIN is way to short or a time span. Adding a realm timer is great and should have never been taken out / disabled in the first place. 8v8 community lmao BOI. you mean the group of people who set up fights, then work together when a group not in the CLICK finds them and joins the fight they work together to attack the 3 realm joining the fight might leave?
@INACA hoe is that difficult? It's exactly the same buff as what was present on the solo spot when they first redid them. Same account swaps realm, players in new realm get buff, easy.
@INACA hoe is that difficult? It's exactly the same buff as what was present on the solo spot when they first redid them. Same account swaps realm, players in new realm get buff, easy.
"solution: when you swap realms you are tagged with a buff (30 min duration) that makes you take extreme damage if within 5000 units of a flamed relic keep."
Comments
The biggest issue is you’re taking feedback and votes from a bunch people who have little understanding of game balance and all they want is what they believe will benefit them the most and not the game in general. If I need my roof inspected I’m not going to ask a plumber. Not sure why Broadsword is even entertaining some of these people.
I really hope Broadsword recognizes what a massive mistake implementing a realm timer will be. Not for my own personal play style, but for the game. The issue is not the realm timer but the player base. If it really is the case that people swap realms during sieges then it’s not the realm timers fault but the player’s instead. Why punish the solo, small, and 8man play styles for it.
Realm timer will not restore “realm pride”, no matter how much you think it will. About 8 months ago, Beeyawnsay hosted a 50+ draft night where there were 6 groups (3 per realm) playing for hours one night. Instead of focusing on restoring pride in your realm, which will never happen considering almost everyone has established toons on every realm, we should be focusing on creating a sense of community. That is what those drafts did. People playing alongside people they never played with before. At present, the 8v8 scene has stimulated more groups to set up fights and to try increase action. What will a realm timer do? If your argument is to go take keeps while you wait for people in other realms to log on, do you really think that will do anything? People will log on, see all the keeps belonging to one realm, and switch to that realm before earning any rps.
DAoC has been my all time favorite game and it’s disappointing to see this type of decisions being made. I just really hope this isn’t the nail in the coffin because I can guarantee that more people will stop playing than start playing or return because of this change.
As for the universal currency I think it’s a good idea but I do think some consideration needs to be taking into how these can be earned outside of just DF and frontiers. While this is a pvp centric game, there are a lot of people that would rather farm their currency in other ways than pvp.
I like timers specifically to keep people from swapping onto a lvl 1 toon to **** talk. Granted, with EC coming out, that may not work since I imagine people will just roll random free accounts for that purpose. Considering one could circumvent a timer (i.e. multiple accounts), I don't see it being effective against swapping. I'm personally against the constant swapping since it's not just the 8mans who do it.
Regarding the low population, that may not change even with EC + timers since a large populace quit due to poor class balance patches coupled with unnecessary PvE campaigns. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Agreed. Don't know why Brut is triggered by the term 8v8. It is what the game was built on.. When there is quite literally *NOTHING* online except a zerg its log off the game for the night or try to kill them with others. This is when 8man isn't even possible. While 8v8 is our preferred playstyle, I still would much rather play live DAOC than do anything else, including logging off because there is nothing else to fight....
Not everyone is as black/white
It is true, Broadsword always gets to hear how they never "listen to the community" as if the community is this one unanumous voice of reason, which is riddiculous. Recently Broadsword has tried to do what they can to appease the vocal majority on the forums say by giving runies ST's, buffing tics (and subsequently nerfing tics) and it's always followed by more complaints than before. Next we'll have speedwarps removed and healers running around with 209 spec nukes.
People act as if what the majority wants is what would generally be the best for the game. The consumer of a product seldom knows what the best way of creating a better product is. We ask what good a 30 minute timer will do for the game? Group mentality has convinced the zergers that realm timers are a good idea for them and that they have nothing to lose. I doubt any of them have given a seconds thought as to what actual effects a timer could, may, or will have on the game, even negative effects on their own playstyle. That is not to say that I myself know for certain what will happen, I can only speculate. I do however know that there will be quite a few people inconvenienced by it, whilst I see no guarantees of the 'good' it will cause. If there was some kind of clear 'greater good' that was achieved by doing this, that would be enough to ease my mind about having timers implemented, but I don't see it, on the contrary I can only imagine the harm it will cause.
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Personally i think your betting on the wrong horse here.
For fun i send out a email a few weeks ago, too all players i have played with since 2001 on EU and US, that i still had the email on, that i didnt know if was active on DAoC and asked if they would return to have some fun in DAoC,
when it goes free to play.
Of the returned replies, 0 are comming back, cause to them the problem was never about the 15 dollars a month, it did however have everything to do with cash shop, class changes, abla stacking being replaced with heal proc and heal / use madness cause they want neither of them, just to name the most common replies. ( Some ofc quit cause of RL and are not returning )
No amount of free to play would make any of them come back, cause the reason they quit are still there.
So i though i would ask some of the guildies about DAoC on more modern free to play mmo's that i play, of those asked none wanted to join a old mmo for different reasons.
I hope im wrong and that free to play will save it all, maybe i just play with the wrong crowd.
Personally i dont care much about the realm timer, makes no difference to me, i just find it abit funny that you release a realm timer with free to play.
What are there to prevent people from making multiple accounts per realm and freely ignore the timer ?
Locked by email adress per account ? you can make a million different emails in 5 mins.
IP ? Dynamic IPs, Parent and kid, Husband and wife, etc wont be able to play different realms, VPN's.
Name ? yeah we all know how that ends with people and their 13 fake cousins living under the same roof.
RL adress ? so only 1 person per household can play ?
So basicly a realm timer, would just be a punishment for subscribers as it wouldnt affect people playing free on multiple accounts ?
Maybe im missing something here, please do enlighten me.
How are removing options for how people can do things and get templates an incentive for people to come back to the game ?
As an example, during EU time we all know hero runs a pretty big BG, so DF are pretty much always locked to hib during eu times, why should any new or returning EU players join anything else then hib ? Getting a template will on alb and mid, be an even bigger uphill battle then it is now ? Same goes for earning plats.
So instead of balancing the realms you widen the gap ?
So much like the addition of RvR quests where you get faster and easier RP's, that we all know the masses love, by zerging stuff on the realm with the biggest zerg, the realm with the biggest zerg will now also have easier access to items ?
Personally i love your DF idea, but at the same time i hate your idea of killing off options of doing things in other ways.
Lovely !
Anyways thats my opinion if anyone should care lol.
What you ask them is what are the problems they are having with your product. Your jon is to find solutions to these problems wighout hindering the othed consumers that do not have issues with it.
I'm starting to sound like a broken record (because I wrote that in about 15 different threads), but realm timers are a cheap solution requested by a portion of your users that will have negative consequences on other users.
Also, based on other comments above, realm timers wont even fully solve the issues that people expressed their concerns about.
I hope BS actually asks questions and tries to understand the realm problems currently in the game and try to come up with solutions that solve these specific problems.
People talk about relics, bg swapping, swap realms to trash talk, etc. All these can be solved without a realm timer.
- Realm timers should help stop the people who literally switch after they have helped open the keep door. It might build realm loyalty. What the optimal timer needs to be, time will tell. Some will love it. It can be altered as needed.
- Single currency - Less confusing and less taking up backpack space. I do like that. If I can do things in Atlantis, DF, dungeons and the quest reward is BPs then I will go there as well as do the quests in RvR. I want to be able to get some of the trophies that we can't get right now so I'd be farming the Deadlands if I could.
I didn't see anything on the list that said I could turn Brut into a bat for 24 hours or throw pies at players. I was going to rage about that but my kitten is crawling on the keyboard so I'll just say I'm happy to see a date for the change and I will do all that I can to help make things work.
Are you 100% sure that PvE stuff like Atlantis is going to reward BPs? I wish that was the case but I'm afraid it's not.
Oh quit making it seem like the end of the world. You will be fine with the realm timers will come population because the game will be FREE you know people will come back and try it out. And with that population boost will reduce your "Need" to hop realms so much. Just quit b*tching and see what happens. When it's live and you don't like it then complain.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
lol this is the end of the world for 8mans.... I can confidently say that as playing in an 8man every single night. I know what the action is. You do not and cannot understand the implications because you are not in the 8v8 community. So in short, stay in your lane.
However, I hope you are totally right and the FTP brings so many new players to generate more action. That would just be amazing and then we wouldn't need to swap realms because there is only 1 group out on a single realm.. I'm gonna go ahead and make a very realistic assumption that FPT won't improve the population, or if so, maybe just a small spike for a short time. Ppl are not not playing DAOC in 2019 because of $15...
I guess all of us 8mans could just unsub now and create 3 FTP accounts for all 3 realms. EZ dodge on realm timers and don't have to pay $15! I think I just found our fix boys.
F2P will bring more people and you're absolutely right people haven't been quitting because the 15$ sub. They have been quitting because of this constant downhill trend BS has had on the games balance/economy and thus
population.
It's almost as if they're making changes to improve on those problems with the release and after it... People will be able to try these changes without having to pay for sub therefore not having any downside. Which in turn increases population.
Wipe your tears pull up your huggies and wait until EC to make these "confident" assumptions.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
You're swerving again
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
Instead of calling people morons, why don't you explain what your experience in this matter is. Your assurances that our playstyle "will be fine" aren't very convincing without first giving any general hint that you know what you're talking about.
What is your "lane" i.e what playstyles do you mainly partake in?
You claim to know what 8man action is like, how have you come to know this?
While we're at it what's your stance on the timers? Do you wish to see them implemented, and if so to what end?
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"Population boost will reduce your "Need" to hop realms so much." Is a point I made... and holds. You won't have to swap realms if EC and the F2P model succeed and population picks up . With that, I said quit your crying until EC is released and we see how well it does. Then if population doesn't pick up you guys can speak your minds on it.
Low population timers are a bad idea swapping is sometimes the only way to create action out there.
I swap realms when I am roaming solo all the time for that very reason. If I am roaming finding nothing but my own realm I will swap and fight them. It makes sense. But with higher population you won't have to nearly as much.
High population I don't see them as a horrible thing. I am also not in favor of anything higher than 15 minutes. That gives enough time for Groups/BGs to attack their objective before certain people and groups can swap and defend for easy RPs. But honestly with how irrelevant relics are now I could give two sh*ts anymore.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
Telling us to quit crying and wait is basically handwaving peoples legitimate concerns away. The main point anyway is that a timer would be bad for the game, increased population or not, not neccesarily just us. There is also the point that if EC does increase the population, but timers turn out to be more hurtful than helpful to the game, the results will be masked.
Seems reasonable. If pop was high and action was reliable no matter which realm you played then timers wouldn't be as devastating as many have predicted, however with a high pop are timers even necessary?
You mention groups swapping to defend against zergs as something that should be fixed with the help of timers, but if you're in Herorius shoes and taking keeps is your main source of action when Anna isn't on, having less defenders would be detrimental in that case no?
If there is to be a timer, agreed 15 minutes is reasonable, would rather see 10, 30 is way too long and not needed.
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I have ran in 8m more than a few times (not randoms) and I primarily solo now. I used to run in the zerg. I have played all aspects of the game and can say I am not great at any of them. But I know and have seen over years what most view points are from the different play styles. I have close friends in all of the play styles. Including friends that are stealth zergers *Gags*.
The reason for the low population is because of the game not the payment I have already stated that. And with EC comes fixes/changes and those are what will hopefully bring the players back... The free is just an added bonus that guarantees people can and will come test the changes.
I say stop complaining because you haven't seen what will happen and neither have I. If you already have such little faith that population will come back why are you even still here complaining in the first place? How about you let the changes happen then give your feedback? I love this game just as much as the next guy and the last thing I want is to watch EC flop. Only way to fix it now is to change it dramatically and spark interest in it once more.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
By showing our concern for the proposed idea of realm timers we are imploring Broadsword to come up with a better solution, one that would make everyone happy. Waiting for EC to see what happens is not the play here, there is no reason an imperfect solution such as this needs to be implemented in the first place.
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Feel free to pve and or swap to an alternate account. GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
And while we're ranting can we do something about the RAMPANT stealth zerging? They're some of the strongest classes in the game and yet they're allowed to run 16 and stealth up healers with them. It's stupid. That **** is making more people quit then realm timers. Imagine you're trying this game for the first time and you run into that crap. Its annoying and shocking for a new player to get ripped by 1 stealthers, let alone 16 of them grped up killing solos. Allowing stealth to be so densely grped is bad for population and bad for the community. Nobody wants to die to that. Assassin's already have all the tools they could possibly want for a solo class. People who don't think they're strong enough are BAD and just are not playing them right.
As always #removestealth2019
And realm timers no bueno. I would compromise for 10 minutes.
Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator
Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743
>Daoc Videos<
Broadsword- This change will only lose subs and not gain a single one. We all are very excited and hopeful that EC gains us some more players but why would you strategically try to put both of these huge changes into one patch so you can’t effectively monitor the implications of decisions. Or is there no strategy involved in your decision making regarding this? Do you want to make such impactful decisions regardless of what the players are saying without having proper data to back you up? Or are you purposely skewing it?
Knowing this, if realm timers truly go live this is not a company that supports or listens to an entire segment of their population and I am confused why anyone would think we would want to support them in return.
We have stressed this literally a thousand times in this thread, this patch literally caters to you and your play style. Of course your'e telling the entire 8v8 subsegment of the population to suck it up.
Your group is NOT going to fall apart because of this. You might not get 100k on every realm in one night....so what? You guys are elite, right? Work it out. Find something that works.... ADAPT....OVERCOME. For God's sake though, man. Stop whining. How about let's build the excitement...the anticipation...that this could be a good thing(EC) for the game we all love.
I think anybody affected negatively by the timers have pretty much all said that something was needed but that timers were not a good solution for that.
We proposed alternative solutions to fix very specific issues and concerns while the other side of the conversation are just saying "fck you I want my timers"
Then offer up a different alternative instead of the constant bawling about a 30 min timer.
- problem : people swapping for relics
solution: when you swap realms you are tagged with a buff (30 min duration) that makes you take extreme damage if within 5000 units of a flamed relic keep.
-problem : people abusing region/advice/lfg chats by creating new characters.
Solution: don't allow players below level 10 tonuse public chats.
Problem: BG swapping in general
Solution: when swapping realms you are flagged with a buff that reduces your RPs by 75% for 30 minutes. You cannot get quest credit until that buff wears out.
See, easy and didn't require realm timers.
Let us swap realms to balance out action with the penalty of reduced RPs.
I couldn't care less about RPs, I have 2 hra in an evening to have some fun playing a game I love, I don't want to spend 30 minutes of that waiting on a stupid realm timers some zergers thought would save the game for some reason.
Those all seem way more complicated, and unrealistic to implement..... Realm timers > everything in this comment.
"solution: when you swap realms you are tagged with a buff (30 min duration) that makes you take extreme damage if within 5000 units of a flamed relic keep."
Seems like they are listening to the people complaining. thats why they are bringing the timers back.
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