For the ppl that speculate that Tald and other 8man playstylers advocate things for that specific playstyle, you cant be more wrong.
Its the overview thats been advocating from most.
Heart of the game is the big mass, the zerg that keeps the game alive. For years its been voiced that give the zergs something to do instead of chasing 8 mans on EV. Some actions have been semi positive and some counter productive and the common thing about it all is that it happens without any real feedback from the base.
Few players involved in the discussion, whats being discussed is not what is happening, testing and feedback is done with even less transparency.Forum lobbyists are vocal about small stuff that in the big overview is brilliant but cus of the bad transparency of goals, the small stuff that leads up to a better way is scrapped and final decision is being made by ppl not in touch with reality. //flop
you misunderstand if you think '8 mans' ruined the game, you truly misunderstand if you think there hasn't been any real feedback -- you may not be privy to it, but there has been much specific and detailed feedback, it has simply been ignored in favor of where the game stands now
If alternatives are there, they will be taken advantage of.
For a second i thought you were talking about Hibernia being the option - that seems to be where most ppl jump to over the last several months if you got zerged down.
It is however - inevitable, if you follow the path, you will get the same results, (nuture of destory).
things went actually in a decent direction until that other ... happened. we all knew it would have an impact and BS didn't anticipate it with any action.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
For the ppl that speculate that Tald and other 8man playstylers advocate things for that specific playstyle, you cant be more wrong.
Its the overview thats been advocating from most.
Heart of the game is the big mass, the zerg that keeps the game alive. For years its been voiced that give the zergs something to do instead of chasing 8 mans on EV. Some actions have been semi positive and some counter productive and the common thing about it all is that it happens without any real feedback from the base.
Few players involved in the discussion, whats being discussed is not what is happening, testing and feedback is done with even less transparency.Forum lobbyists are vocal about small stuff that in the big overview is brilliant but cus of the bad transparency of goals, the small stuff that leads up to a better way is scrapped and final decision is being made by ppl not in touch with reality. //flop
zerg players as a rule are rather casual. don't expect them to give a lot of feedback. giving feedback isn't casual. i know a lot of the players in anna's zerg just play like 9 hours each week. the hours that anna runs. expecting those people to read forums and post ... no
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
Years before I didn't really engage Zerg community, always enjoyed small manning / 8 mans since release of the game. Since return, I met some very nice people who are happened to be enjoy zerging. My view on it since completely changed, many enjoy the laid back type of playing RvR. They don't come to forums alot, they don't engage in balance change debates, they just enjoy playing with their friends.
These guys are often not the most competitive players of the community, but in zergs they can feel being useful, and helpful for their realm by fighting for it, and by this, they don't have to take part of so called elite 8v8ers, elite soloers chain killing them. The recent huge drop on Midgard is due the absence of mid BG leaders, and thats alot of players we lost there. I really do feel sad for it, because for these people the biggest fun disappeared from the game, without replacement. There must be a voice for their playstyle in the game too, because they also part of the community, just often silent.
I think we very much underestimate the number of non-forum hogs in the game, who just wan't to have fun in PvE & Zergs with friends they meet, without the requirement of the best temps in game. Based on people around us, we may get the false picture of none liking PvE, and Zergs are only for RPs, but based on my experience, thats not entirely true. Also, it's very much respectable how they tolerate dying, I hear way less QQ about it from them, then from the some of the best players around, or in PuGs.
The recent item creep did widen the gap even more between players, with numerous /uses and very powerful seasonal items. Lately with BGs not being around, it's getting harder to keep some of the players around, because eventually they will be bored if they cant compete in RvR environment due the lack of experience in game, or item restrictions until they get a decent gear which for them can take longer then others. DAoC is less new / returning player friendly recently imho, hope that will change in the future.
The Cursed nerfs, and BP system was well done, however I still do think that BP prices are a bit too high. If we ain't planning to do /use or proc nerfs in the future, I would welcome an updated king's gear, or a way to upgrade currently existing king's to a little bit better one.
Until that, I really do hope to see more players trying to make BGs, saw some tries from certain players recently, however they don't get enough support to get it going unfortunately.
Thanks Gavner. I agree with your post. I always enjoyed that DAOC allowed for all types of play. As a solo'er I spend much of my time hiding. As an 8v8 / small man I spend most of my time hearing the sighs of my group. As a zerger I enjoy the odd conversations, the laughter and the big fights. Each person has to find their own path. I hope those who have left find one that someday brings them back to DAOC. I'll keep a watch out for your return and welcome back
We've tried to a point with EJ on mid. No one wants the hassle though. The hassle of leading. The hassle of trying to coordinate 4+ groups of people in a voice chat (too much chatter and overtalking). The hassle of independent groups roaming off and doing their own thing. Yup, we were guilty of that too, so we know how it works. For me personally, it just became more of a hassle than anything overall. Take relics? Nope, Hero would just snatch em back anyway. They really lost their appeal knowing he would have them back in 12 hours. And even if we wanted to try, 40% of the bg would realm flip to soak up defense rps. So for me at least, i chose not to feed that. That takes away a lot of the realm lore aspect of the game. We are in the downward spiral cycle atm. No BG leaeders in mid. No one wants it. No one wants to step up. Even if they did, the other cycle has started now, and i'll admit i jumped on the bandwagon. We roll out.. try to find decent fights, but if we get rolled by a much larger zerg, we try to adapt. Possibly tower camp in hopes that our fewer numbers can take a few with us when we die. After round 3 of getting steamrolled i personally flip to "the alternative" and go play somewhere else. I don't entice people to do the same, but it doesnt take long before i see familiar names joining me there. Its a shame. @Beetleguisse put together a rather nice hib US primetime BG. We have had some fun fights, but typically youre gonna see me for about 3 runs now and thats it if its completely dominated by any one side (mids included). I hope that he can keep it going long enough to see numbers come back. Three way fights were on their way back, but for the foreseeable future i wouldnt hold my breath. Two specific questions come to mind.
1. Does BS see this as a problem? Im sure subscriptions have taken a hard nose dive, and will continue to do so. I'm about 15 days out on mine personally and i don't believe i'll re-up at the moment. Possibly in the future, but some kind of draw has to be there for me.
2. What could BS do to entice people back?, or to try the game out? F2P is a decent concept, but if you're talking about months out... .well lets just hope the subs that are left can sustain the overhead to keep a project going.
+1 for realm pride; It's what use to keep me playing this game for hours on end. Now it feels like they added a bunch of carrots on sticks and insentives to switch realms (why Daly quests? Why quests where you have to lose (keep/tower) so you can take it back)
@Gavner I'm in a similar boat regarding zergs. I rarely zerged in the past. Mostly small manned with two or three other people and sometimes 8manned. Since those I used to play with have long since quit, I've participated in zerging a lot more to the point where I lead one on the weekends. It is casual with a sprinkle of competitiveness. We enjoy winning our fights but we also don't let the /release prevent us from going back out. My goal is to have fun, not to dominate.
@Sleepwell My only advice for building a BG is to be consistent. It takes time for people to know and recognize someone new. Having a core set of players always helps. There's room for new blood to lead on Mid during US prime. I'm glad to see EJ trying.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
@Beetleguisse They’ve been told to lead Mid, but I feel the want is not there. They’ve got no problem running around creating action, the stress of leading around people who don’t follow etc. is more stressful then it’s worth. They want to have fun, not lead a zerg around, some of the people here did very well with that type of play, but in my opinion EJ is not picking up where any zerg leader left off.
@Gavner Agree, in pretty much the same boat, as you probably know from previous forum threads and chats.
Same to @Beetleguisse
Nice posts both of ya imo.
@Snaillyn Completely understandable. Zerg play isn't for everyone and if they don't want to do it then they shouldn't. It has to be done voluntarily otherwise it'll become a job more than being fun. Honestly, I don't want to lead more than I do now. Maybe, when my schedule allows for it, I'll pick up another day but no more than that. I think variety is good. Let the other playstyles flourish during the week.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
It’s a numbers game zergs pay for what’s left in this game. Small man and 8 man and stealth action has picked up as the population dwindles down. It’s fun playing but won’t keep the lights on in the long run.
It’s hard to take seriously claims that player’s X playstyle is the reason for DAoC’s decline. From my view it’s the inaction from those charged with DAoC’s development creating an environment where players are turning on one another via forums and outside the frontiers.
It’s about time Broadsword shares with their subscriber base what their vision is in 2019 and beyond. Is that Endless Conquest? Who knows. Nothing substantial has been communicated about the future and I think it only will throw fuel on the fire—or conflagration considering the downward trend in population, and an already small community blaming each other for the ill’s of a subscription based game that sees very little development.
For the ppl that speculate that Tald and other 8man playstylers advocate things for that specific playstyle, you cant be more wrong.
Its the overview thats been advocating from most.
Heart of the game is the big mass, the zerg that keeps the game alive. For years its been voiced that give the zergs something to do instead of chasing 8 mans on EV. Some actions have been semi positive and some counter productive and the common thing about it all is that it happens without any real feedback from the base.
Few players involved in the discussion, whats being discussed is not what is happening, testing and feedback is done with even less transparency.Forum lobbyists are vocal about small stuff that in the big overview is brilliant but cus of the bad transparency of goals, the small stuff that leads up to a better way is scrapped and final decision is being made by ppl not in touch with reality. //flop
zerg players as a rule are rather casual. don't expect them to give a lot of feedback. giving feedback isn't casual. i know a lot of the players in anna's zerg just play like 9 hours each week. the hours that anna runs. expecting those people to read forums and post ... no
all your "kinghts" are on "freeshards" many kept same names some stay hidden...
Many gave advice... Gaven and Panz gave plenty advice both running really nice 8 mans on freeshards while you listened to there advice the game crumbled all while BG leaders were ignored. I have had two tells buy my account in the last 5 days. why should I not sell? I and my brothers and sisters want to defend and the realm that is meaningless. The best offer was beyond what I can understand beyond 1K. [edited]
Realm Pride is everything on freeshards maybe I am home
Realm Pride was one pillar of the game, that players were forced to play only one realm/server was there for a reason. Players (and BS) on live that are against a realm switch timer have forgotten this already.
Realm Pride is everything on freeshards maybe I am home
Realm Pride was one pillar of the game, that players were forced to play only one realm/server was there for a reason. Players (and BS) on live that are against a realm switch timer have forgotten this already.
Realm Pride was destroyed when Mythic merged the servers due to population decline. They could have forced everyone to start over but they didn't. Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
A short Realm Timer could be good but I don't see it preventing any perceived problems without causing others. The Mid Zerg leaders complained about this the most: players switching to defend a keep when the Zerg attacks one. It still happens. I honestly don't care because it brings out action. I'd rather hit a keep and wipe than loop around waiting for someone to make a move. The biggest issue that affects gameplay is fear of the /release. That's not something Broadsword, or any dev for that matter, can fix.
It sucks that we're down to two BGs again but we make do. Zerg gameplay has been fun on the weekends now that Alb has a population.
In anticipation for the "Dark Age of Questalot" comments, the new flavor of choice shares a similar title: "Dark Age of Taskalot". Enjoy the nostalgia while it lasts, but the same problems are going to creep up as they did on live.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Realm Pride is everything on freeshards maybe I am home
Realm Pride was one pillar of the game, that players were forced to play only one realm/server was there for a reason. Players (and BS) on live that are against a realm switch timer have forgotten this already.
Realm Pride was destroyed when Mythic merged the servers due to population decline. They could have forced everyone to start over but they didn't. Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
A short Realm Timer could be good but I don't see it preventing any perceived problems without causing others. The Mid Zerg leaders complained about this the most: players switching to defend a keep when the Zerg attacks one. It still happens. I honestly don't care because it brings out action. I'd rather hit a keep and wipe than loop around waiting for someone to make a move. The biggest issue that affects gameplay is fear of the /release. That's not something Broadsword, or any dev for that matter, can fix.
It sucks that we're down to two BGs again but we make do. Zerg gameplay has been fun on the weekends now that Alb has a population.
In anticipation for the "Dark Age of Questalot" comments, the new flavor of choice shares a similar title: "Dark Age of Taskalot". Enjoy the nostalgia while it lasts, but the same problems are going to creep up as they did on live.
You misconstrue Realm Pride; Realm <pride if you must> was a reason to fight, a backbone of the game --- now it's about, what, just fighting --- there are better avenues for that <better games even>.....it's not about Zergs or 8's or solo's; it's about allowing the game to fall into a mish mash of nothingness and purposelessness --- that probably sounds good to some -- but numbers are the determining factor. BS constantly said they 'can't tell people how to play', but they did with the changes they made <every game does, hence it is really a silly comment to make but (shrug)>...and folks are seeing the consequences. I am pretty sure they feel that other server will die and people will shuffle back, but why...for more of the same that drove them away in the first place?? For no communication, no dialogue, no purpose, etc?
As to the Taskalot comment --- not the greatest, but it draws fights and has purpose, and people don't <and can't> skew the numbers senselessly making the task <or in your case quest> meaningless.
Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
It works all the time, but not without a realmswitchtimer.
And who are you to say that realmpride isn`t a pillar, if someone like MJ said it is...in DAoC and in CU.
If the nostalgica lasts for only 6-12 month, do you know what that means?
6-12 month fun, 6-12 month closer to CU, and that isn`t something that will die quickly.
@Fateboi what makes you think the other server goes down? really explain that to us here. Have you ever tried? have you ever checked their website at least? have you ever seen the damn ## there?? Have you ever seen if people are having fun there or not to say such silly thing? I would check it out at least their website to say such of silly thing.
GL
History....Yes,i personally have tried. Yes i check the site daily. Yes, ive seen the #'s. I've seen them before too. Yup.. having fun myself, but again, history has proven that it is not sustainable
Nobody knows for sure @Shamissa, but I have to agree with @Sleepwell 100%. History is why we say it. How quickly you forget about the one before the current one that failed in around a year. It was also boasting huge #'s at the start.
Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
It works all the time, but not without a realmswitchtimer.
And who are you to say that realmpride isn`t a pillar, if someone like MJ said it is...in DAoC and in CU.
If the nostalgica lasts for only 6-12 month, do you know what that means?
6-12 month fun, 6-12 month closer to CU, and that isn`t something that will die quickly.
Realm Pride is an "us vs. them" mindset. It promotes ignorance of the other Realms and perpetuates misunderstanding of how other classes work. This leads to poor Realm balance suggestions by the community. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Broadsword has done a good job with class balance but neither has Mythic.
MJ abandoned DAoC years ago when Mythic sold itself to EA. I don't take what he says as gospel as Mythic has made some terrible decisions (i.e. the ToA expansion). I really hope CU is successful but it won't be DAoC 2. It's a different game with different game-play despite having a similar premise. By the time CU is released, it will be an old-new game.
I'm not a purist and I don't ride nostalgia trains to have fun. I enjoy the game-play now more than I did in the past. You couldn't pay me to go back in time and start over, even with a few QoL adjustments. I understand the appeal of a larger population and an interactive dev team. However, I also know that every single iteration that has come before has failed. Maybe this one will prove otherwise. Hard to say as it's still in the "honey-moon" phase. Regardless, I have no interest nor time to dedicate to an old version of DAoC.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Some information about the future vision of the game from the developers would certainly be welcomed at a time when the player base is fragmented. We want want to be excited and optimistic about what BS has planned going forward so we players can play our part and hype up DAoC 2019 and provide feedback.
Some information about the future vision of the game from the developers would certainly be welcomed at a time when the player base is fragmented. We want want to be excited and optimistic about what BS has planned going forward so we players can play our part and hype up DAoC 2019 and provide feedback.
I wholeheartedly agree. They have made some posts in the past regarding their intentions but those have been few and far between. The frequency and transparency of their future direction needs to improve.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
MJ abandoned DAoC years ago when Mythic sold itself to EA. I don't take what he says as gospel as Mythic has made some terrible decisions (i.e. the ToA expansion). I really hope CU is successful but it won't be DAoC 2. It's a different game with different game-play despite having a similar premise. By the time CU is released, it will be an old-new game.
We all make mistakes, and i`m pretty sure that he regret what he did.
ToA wasn`t the DAoC killer, it had its flaws, but from the number of subs it was one of the most successful addons.
I don`t like the rvr related stuff that came with ToA, but the rest was cool **** 14 years ago.
CU will a different game, thats for sure, but parts of the concept are still DAoC.
And to DAoC on live, sorry, it isn`t a satisfying gaming experience with this numbers, it isn`t fun for me.
RP-bonus can`t compensate the lack of players. It needs players to play with and against, without searching them for 15 mins.
Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
It works all the time, but not without a realmswitchtimer.
And who are you to say that realmpride isn`t a pillar, if someone like MJ said it is...in DAoC and in CU.
If the nostalgica lasts for only 6-12 month, do you know what that means?
6-12 month fun, 6-12 month closer to CU, and that isn`t something that will die quickly.
Realm Pride is an "us vs. them" mindset. It promotes ignorance of the other Realms and perpetuates misunderstanding of how other classes work. This leads to poor Realm balance suggestions by the community. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Broadsword has done a good job with class balance but neither has Mythic.
MJ abandoned DAoC years ago when Mythic sold itself to EA. I don't take what he says as gospel as Mythic has made some terrible decisions (i.e. the ToA expansion). I really hope CU is successful but it won't be DAoC 2. It's a different game with different game-play despite having a similar premise. By the time CU is released, it will be an old-new game.
I'm not a purist and I don't ride nostalgia trains to have fun. I enjoy the game-play now more than I did in the past. You couldn't pay me to go back in time and start over, even with a few QoL adjustments. I understand the appeal of a larger population and an interactive dev team. However, I also know that every single iteration that has come before has failed. Maybe this one will prove otherwise. Hard to say as it's still in the "honey-moon" phase. Regardless, I have no interest nor time to dedicate to an old version of DAoC.
True RvR promotes knowledge of the other realms not ignorance, one of the oldest expresions in the world is 'Know thy enemy'. Further, RvR doesn't promote bad suggestions in re balance, people wanting to be dominant <or easy mode> promotes bad suggestions; it's up to the Devs to promote balance, which the current group has decided isn't important -- and hence we are where we are...
@Fateboi, I am in the topic as everyone else here in this post. You are totally lost or look that way. No one asked you to go make an acct in there to make sure of things kiddo.
TC
Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
It works all the time, but not without a realmswitchtimer.
And who are you to say that realmpride isn`t a pillar, if someone like MJ said it is...in DAoC and in CU.
If the nostalgica lasts for only 6-12 month, do you know what that means?
6-12 month fun, 6-12 month closer to CU, and that isn`t something that will die quickly.
Realm Pride is an "us vs. them" mindset. It promotes ignorance of the other Realms and perpetuates misunderstanding of how other classes work. This leads to poor Realm balance suggestions by the community. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Broadsword has done a good job with class balance but neither has Mythic.
MJ abandoned DAoC years ago when Mythic sold itself to EA. I don't take what he says as gospel as Mythic has made some terrible decisions (i.e. the ToA expansion). I really hope CU is successful but it won't be DAoC 2. It's a different game with different game-play despite having a similar premise. By the time CU is released, it will be an old-new game.
I'm not a purist and I don't ride nostalgia trains to have fun. I enjoy the game-play now more than I did in the past. You couldn't pay me to go back in time and start over, even with a few QoL adjustments. I understand the appeal of a larger population and an interactive dev team. However, I also know that every single iteration that has come before has failed. Maybe this one will prove otherwise. Hard to say as it's still in the "honey-moon" phase. Regardless, I have no interest nor time to dedicate to an old version of DAoC.
True RvR promotes knowledge of the other realms not ignorance, one of the oldest expresions in the world is 'Know thy enemy'. Further, RvR doesn't promote bad suggestions in re balance, people wanting to be dominant <or easy mode> promotes bad suggestions; it's up to the Devs to promote balance, which the current group has decided isn't important -- and hence we are where we are...
Yet ignorance prevails (insert instant amnesia argument here). No Dev in DAoC history has been good at class balance. This group just happens to be the least transparent about it which, to be fair, is problematic. It is impossible to balance so many different classes across all playstyles. Mythic dug that hole and BS is stuck in it.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Average developer should be far more competent in game changes then most of player opinion. It is reasonable to voice our opinion, or things we are unhappy about, but many or all of us speak from a certain Playstyle/Realm/Class perspective which wildly varies in DAoC so we should focus on what most of us have issues with, and need change.
On those topics I think many have been perfectly clear wheres the common ground, and a good developer should get the main road to build towards, and disregard a few wild ideas that didn't get / won't get much support.
I am willing to put my trust in them regardless of past mistakes, since I've seen some changes go live past months that overall went in the good direction to help DAoC recover, we just need to continue going forward improving on other aspects too that's been discussed.
However it may be a personal opinion, I do not see it reasonable to burn the bridge that DAoC may not recover from, just as a demonstration, when we all have enjoyed that DAoC live still around even when we had to take years of brake because of varied reasons.
It seems easier to jump on a stolen product of someone elses property, with some changes that seems popular in current lives perspective, but the many even if not all of it's sought after features can also be asked from developers here, just require patience. I feel like it's a self destructive thing to think that something that's illegal, and free, won't come with downsides. Regardless I like a developer, or it's path taken, they are motivated to keep their jobs, and I as a customer protected if their product does any harm for me or my computer, while other option to live in shadows, without any reasonable expectation of future, putting blind trust in faceless people who think it's okay to steal instead of create something own. They don't owe their players anything, and I feel like it's a very vulnerable and one sided deal to make, just sounds incredibly good on paper.
Hope I did avoid breaking ToS rules, and we can make a competitive, good DAoC to return to soon.
I didn't say I do not understand people being impatient, in fact I do. Many did quit DAoC over 18 years either because of RL reasons, or they didn't enjoy the game or certain changes.
I just said in my opinion running away from DAoC to an illegal DAoC is controversial arguing that transparency is key factor then to run to someone that is okay with stealing, destroying live game for their own benefit. Because they are so nice, yeah sure, give up all your rights as a customer to faceless people. However I can see why some would try to seem like very much transparent to avoid certain questions / topics.
Being legal, pay server costs isn't free, and it's not a charity either, and often people who are nice doesn't have to hide.
Anyway, I get people who leaving, just privately myself don't understand why the hype over where they go, it's not just roses and rainbows.
Regardless, I really do hope that @Broadsword will be able to bring back people, make changes necessary to regain trust, do well, because that is my own interest too. I going to stick around as long I do have my fun, have people around I care about, and DAoC is up.
Whenever I will loose my patience, and fun, I will just straight quit DAoC altogether. Not like it matters for much.
Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
It works all the time, but not without a realmswitchtimer.
And who are you to say that realmpride isn`t a pillar, if someone like MJ said it is...in DAoC and in CU.
If the nostalgica lasts for only 6-12 month, do you know what that means?
6-12 month fun, 6-12 month closer to CU, and that isn`t something that will die quickly.
Realm Pride is an "us vs. them" mindset. It promotes ignorance of the other Realms and perpetuates misunderstanding of how other classes work. This leads to poor Realm balance suggestions by the community. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Broadsword has done a good job with class balance but neither has Mythic.
MJ abandoned DAoC years ago when Mythic sold itself to EA. I don't take what he says as gospel as Mythic has made some terrible decisions (i.e. the ToA expansion). I really hope CU is successful but it won't be DAoC 2. It's a different game with different game-play despite having a similar premise. By the time CU is released, it will be an old-new game.
I'm not a purist and I don't ride nostalgia trains to have fun. I enjoy the game-play now more than I did in the past. You couldn't pay me to go back in time and start over, even with a few QoL adjustments. I understand the appeal of a larger population and an interactive dev team. However, I also know that every single iteration that has come before has failed. Maybe this one will prove otherwise. Hard to say as it's still in the "honey-moon" phase. Regardless, I have no interest nor time to dedicate to an old version of DAoC.
True RvR promotes knowledge of the other realms not ignorance, one of the oldest expresions in the world is 'Know thy enemy'. Further, RvR doesn't promote bad suggestions in re balance, people wanting to be dominant <or easy mode> promotes bad suggestions; it's up to the Devs to promote balance, which the current group has decided isn't important -- and hence we are where we are...
Yet ignorance prevails (insert instant amnesia argument here). No Dev in DAoC history has been good at class balance. This group just happens to be the least transparent about it which, to be fair, is problematic. It is impossible to balance so many different classes across all playstyles. Mythic dug that hole and BS is stuck in it.
There is always ignorance, it kinda falls into the so what category....Class balance has been up and down certainly, but to bail on it, then deny you bailed on it only to come back and admit, yeah, we gave up --- is symptomatic of the silliness that is what we <the players> are dealing with.
Further there are some very simple things to promote better balance they refuse to listen to or do....ultimately, however it is not simply a balance thing, it's much more of a NO VISION thing ---- they have <imo> bailed on everything that made this game unique and fun, they refuse to communicate ... I sadly see the game past the tipping point...
The umm server not to be named has one carrot for me from what I hear, old archery ruleset. While I do miss those days, I cannot go there for similar reasons I can’t go back to Alb, nostalgia and old friends no longer there. I have made some great friends since I came back 2 years ago. What is past shall remain so.
I will be here to the end, whenever that time shall come.
I didn't say I do not understand people being impatient, in fact I do. Many did quit DAoC over 18 years either because of RL reasons, or they didn't enjoy the game or certain changes.
I just said in my opinion running away from DAoC to an illegal DAoC is controversial arguing that transparency is key factor then to run to someone that is okay with stealing, destroying live game for their own benefit. Because they are so nice, yeah sure, give up all your rights as a customer to faceless people. However I can see why some would try to seem like very much transparent to avoid certain questions / topics.
Being legal, pay server costs isn't free, and it's not a charity either, and often people who are nice doesn't have to hide.
Anyway, I get people who leaving, just privately myself don't understand why the hype over where they go, it's not just roses and rainbows.
Edit: lots of typos :P
I get your points.
But like i said, it`s all about the numbers. That makes a server alive.
Shouldn`t be that uggly for BS atm, most of the players from live still have their subs running.
And since Keltorius mentioned the old archery system, a question about patience...
Do you think BS is switching the current archery system back to something good?
I didn't say I do not understand people being impatient, in fact I do. Many did quit DAoC over 18 years either because of RL reasons, or they didn't enjoy the game or certain changes.
I just said in my opinion running away from DAoC to an illegal DAoC is controversial arguing that transparency is key factor then to run to someone that is okay with stealing, destroying live game for their own benefit. Because they are so nice, yeah sure, give up all your rights as a customer to faceless people. However I can see why some would try to seem like very much transparent to avoid certain questions / topics.
Being legal, pay server costs isn't free, and it's not a charity either, and often people who are nice doesn't have to hide.
Anyway, I get people who leaving, just privately myself don't understand why the hype over where they go, it's not just roses and rainbows.
Edit: lots of typos :P
I get your points.
But like i said, it`s all about the numbers. That makes a server alive.
Shouldn`t be that uggly for BS atm, most of the players from live still have their subs running.
And since Keltorius mentioned the old archery system, a question about patience...
Do you think BS is switching the current archery system back to something good?
Doubt, I did like old archery too, but I think if we dig deep enough many like new too, or would be sad for losing it. I also have things I miss, that I am perfectly sure that would never be rolled back for many reasons.
As said, I don't blame ppl losing patience, but it seems like DAoC addiction is a real thing, getting it from shady dealers because they can't stop it haha. Anyway, mines still there until I have enough fun, but of course I think I already took part for my share of criticism, I just be part of it to make them valid, not bark from outside the gate or promote alternate solutions just as a revenge not listening to me.
I very much would love to see people return by some changes made that already been voiced so many times there is no real point to repeat.
Comments
When one is clearly demonstrated to be totally wrong, they lash out without merit -- kinda sad for a supposed adult
you misunderstand if you think '8 mans' ruined the game, you truly misunderstand if you think there hasn't been any real feedback -- you may not be privy to it, but there has been much specific and detailed feedback, it has simply been ignored in favor of where the game stands now
For a second i thought you were talking about Hibernia being the option - that seems to be where most ppl jump to over the last several months if you got zerged down.
It is however - inevitable, if you follow the path, you will get the same results, (nuture of destory).
things went actually in a decent direction until that other ... happened. we all knew it would have an impact and BS didn't anticipate it with any action.
zerg players as a rule are rather casual. don't expect them to give a lot of feedback. giving feedback isn't casual. i know a lot of the players in anna's zerg just play like 9 hours each week. the hours that anna runs. expecting those people to read forums and post ... no
Years before I didn't really engage Zerg community, always enjoyed small manning / 8 mans since release of the game. Since return, I met some very nice people who are happened to be enjoy zerging. My view on it since completely changed, many enjoy the laid back type of playing RvR. They don't come to forums alot, they don't engage in balance change debates, they just enjoy playing with their friends.
These guys are often not the most competitive players of the community, but in zergs they can feel being useful, and helpful for their realm by fighting for it, and by this, they don't have to take part of so called elite 8v8ers, elite soloers chain killing them. The recent huge drop on Midgard is due the absence of mid BG leaders, and thats alot of players we lost there. I really do feel sad for it, because for these people the biggest fun disappeared from the game, without replacement. There must be a voice for their playstyle in the game too, because they also part of the community, just often silent.
I think we very much underestimate the number of non-forum hogs in the game, who just wan't to have fun in PvE & Zergs with friends they meet, without the requirement of the best temps in game. Based on people around us, we may get the false picture of none liking PvE, and Zergs are only for RPs, but based on my experience, thats not entirely true. Also, it's very much respectable how they tolerate dying, I hear way less QQ about it from them, then from the some of the best players around, or in PuGs.
The recent item creep did widen the gap even more between players, with numerous /uses and very powerful seasonal items. Lately with BGs not being around, it's getting harder to keep some of the players around, because eventually they will be bored if they cant compete in RvR environment due the lack of experience in game, or item restrictions until they get a decent gear which for them can take longer then others. DAoC is less new / returning player friendly recently imho, hope that will change in the future.
The Cursed nerfs, and BP system was well done, however I still do think that BP prices are a bit too high. If we ain't planning to do /use or proc nerfs in the future, I would welcome an updated king's gear, or a way to upgrade currently existing king's to a little bit better one.
Until that, I really do hope to see more players trying to make BGs, saw some tries from certain players recently, however they don't get enough support to get it going unfortunately.
1. Does BS see this as a problem? Im sure subscriptions have taken a hard nose dive, and will continue to do so. I'm about 15 days out on mine personally and i don't believe i'll re-up at the moment. Possibly in the future, but some kind of draw has to be there for me.
2. What could BS do to entice people back?, or to try the game out? F2P is a decent concept, but if you're talking about months out... .well lets just hope the subs that are left can sustain the overhead to keep a project going.
@Sleepwell My only advice for building a BG is to be consistent. It takes time for people to know and recognize someone new. Having a core set of players always helps. There's room for new blood to lead on Mid during US prime. I'm glad to see EJ trying.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Same to @Beetleguisse
Nice posts both of ya imo.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
It’s about time Broadsword shares with their subscriber base what their vision is in 2019 and beyond. Is that Endless Conquest? Who knows. Nothing substantial has been communicated about the future and I think it only will throw fuel on the fire—or conflagration considering the downward trend in population, and an already small community blaming each other for the ill’s of a subscription based game that sees very little development.
all your "kinghts" are on "freeshards" many kept same names some stay hidden...
Realm Pride was one pillar of the game, that players were forced to play only one realm/server was there for a reason. Players (and BS) on live that are against a realm switch timer have forgotten this already.
Realm Pride was destroyed when Mythic merged the servers due to population decline. They could have forced everyone to start over but they didn't. Realm Pride is more a form of roleplay than a pillar of gameplay. It only "works" when you have a large population.
A short Realm Timer could be good but I don't see it preventing any perceived problems without causing others. The Mid Zerg leaders complained about this the most: players switching to defend a keep when the Zerg attacks one. It still happens. I honestly don't care because it brings out action. I'd rather hit a keep and wipe than loop around waiting for someone to make a move. The biggest issue that affects gameplay is fear of the /release. That's not something Broadsword, or any dev for that matter, can fix.
It sucks that we're down to two BGs again but we make do. Zerg gameplay has been fun on the weekends now that Alb has a population.
In anticipation for the "Dark Age of Questalot" comments, the new flavor of choice shares a similar title: "Dark Age of Taskalot". Enjoy the nostalgia while it lasts, but the same problems are going to creep up as they did on live.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
You misconstrue Realm Pride; Realm <pride if you must> was a reason to fight, a backbone of the game --- now it's about, what, just fighting --- there are better avenues for that <better games even>.....it's not about Zergs or 8's or solo's; it's about allowing the game to fall into a mish mash of nothingness and purposelessness --- that probably sounds good to some -- but numbers are the determining factor. BS constantly said they 'can't tell people how to play', but they did with the changes they made <every game does, hence it is really a silly comment to make but (shrug)>...and folks are seeing the consequences. I am pretty sure they feel that other server will die and people will shuffle back, but why...for more of the same that drove them away in the first place?? For no communication, no dialogue, no purpose, etc?
As to the Taskalot comment --- not the greatest, but it draws fights and has purpose, and people don't <and can't> skew the numbers senselessly making the task <or in your case quest> meaningless.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
It works all the time, but not without a realmswitchtimer.
And who are you to say that realmpride isn`t a pillar, if someone like MJ said it is...in DAoC and in CU.
If the nostalgica lasts for only 6-12 month, do you know what that means?
6-12 month fun, 6-12 month closer to CU, and that isn`t something that will die quickly.
History....Yes,i personally have tried. Yes i check the site daily. Yes, ive seen the #'s. I've seen them before too. Yup.. having fun myself, but again, history has proven that it is not sustainable
Realm Pride is an "us vs. them" mindset. It promotes ignorance of the other Realms and perpetuates misunderstanding of how other classes work. This leads to poor Realm balance suggestions by the community. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Broadsword has done a good job with class balance but neither has Mythic.
MJ abandoned DAoC years ago when Mythic sold itself to EA. I don't take what he says as gospel as Mythic has made some terrible decisions (i.e. the ToA expansion). I really hope CU is successful but it won't be DAoC 2. It's a different game with different game-play despite having a similar premise. By the time CU is released, it will be an old-new game.
I'm not a purist and I don't ride nostalgia trains to have fun. I enjoy the game-play now more than I did in the past. You couldn't pay me to go back in time and start over, even with a few QoL adjustments. I understand the appeal of a larger population and an interactive dev team. However, I also know that every single iteration that has come before has failed. Maybe this one will prove otherwise. Hard to say as it's still in the "honey-moon" phase. Regardless, I have no interest nor time to dedicate to an old version of DAoC.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
I wholeheartedly agree. They have made some posts in the past regarding their intentions but those have been few and far between. The frequency and transparency of their future direction needs to improve.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
We all make mistakes, and i`m pretty sure that he regret what he did.
ToA wasn`t the DAoC killer, it had its flaws, but from the number of subs it was one of the most successful addons.
I don`t like the rvr related stuff that came with ToA, but the rest was cool **** 14 years ago.
CU will a different game, thats for sure, but parts of the concept are still DAoC.
And to DAoC on live, sorry, it isn`t a satisfying gaming experience with this numbers, it isn`t fun for me.
RP-bonus can`t compensate the lack of players. It needs players to play with and against, without searching them for 15 mins.
I’m interested to see what happens with Live, the elephant in the room is CU anyhow.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
True RvR promotes knowledge of the other realms not ignorance, one of the oldest expresions in the world is 'Know thy enemy'. Further, RvR doesn't promote bad suggestions in re balance, people wanting to be dominant <or easy mode> promotes bad suggestions; it's up to the Devs to promote balance, which the current group has decided isn't important -- and hence we are where we are...
TC
Yet ignorance prevails (insert instant amnesia argument here). No Dev in DAoC history has been good at class balance. This group just happens to be the least transparent about it which, to be fair, is problematic. It is impossible to balance so many different classes across all playstyles. Mythic dug that hole and BS is stuck in it.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
On those topics I think many have been perfectly clear wheres the common ground, and a good developer should get the main road to build towards, and disregard a few wild ideas that didn't get / won't get much support.
I am willing to put my trust in them regardless of past mistakes, since I've seen some changes go live past months that overall went in the good direction to help DAoC recover, we just need to continue going forward improving on other aspects too that's been discussed.
However it may be a personal opinion, I do not see it reasonable to burn the bridge that DAoC may not recover from, just as a demonstration, when we all have enjoyed that DAoC live still around even when we had to take years of brake because of varied reasons.
It seems easier to jump on a stolen product of someone elses property, with some changes that seems popular in current lives perspective, but the many even if not all of it's sought after features can also be asked from developers here, just require patience. I feel like it's a self destructive thing to think that something that's illegal, and free, won't come with downsides. Regardless I like a developer, or it's path taken, they are motivated to keep their jobs, and I as a customer protected if their product does any harm for me or my computer, while other option to live in shadows, without any reasonable expectation of future, putting blind trust in faceless people who think it's okay to steal instead of create something own. They don't owe their players anything, and I feel like it's a very vulnerable and one sided deal to make, just sounds incredibly good on paper.
Hope I did avoid breaking ToS rules, and we can make a competitive, good DAoC to return to soon.
I just said in my opinion running away from DAoC to an illegal DAoC is controversial arguing that transparency is key factor then to run to someone that is okay with stealing, destroying live game for their own benefit. Because they are so nice, yeah sure, give up all your rights as a customer to faceless people. However I can see why some would try to seem like very much transparent to avoid certain questions / topics.
Being legal, pay server costs isn't free, and it's not a charity either, and often people who are nice doesn't have to hide.
Anyway, I get people who leaving, just privately myself don't understand why the hype over where they go, it's not just roses and rainbows.
Edit: lots of typos :P
Whenever I will loose my patience, and fun, I will just straight quit DAoC altogether. Not like it matters for much.
There is always ignorance, it kinda falls into the so what category....Class balance has been up and down certainly, but to bail on it, then deny you bailed on it only to come back and admit, yeah, we gave up --- is symptomatic of the silliness that is what we <the players> are dealing with.
Further there are some very simple things to promote better balance they refuse to listen to or do....ultimately, however it is not simply a balance thing, it's much more of a NO VISION thing ---- they have <imo> bailed on everything that made this game unique and fun, they refuse to communicate ... I sadly see the game past the tipping point...
I will be here to the end, whenever that time shall come.
I get your points.
But like i said, it`s all about the numbers. That makes a server alive.
Shouldn`t be that uggly for BS atm, most of the players from live still have their subs running.
And since Keltorius mentioned the old archery system, a question about patience...
Do you think BS is switching the current archery system back to something good?
Doubt, I did like old archery too, but I think if we dig deep enough many like new too, or would be sad for losing it. I also have things I miss, that I am perfectly sure that would never be rolled back for many reasons.
As said, I don't blame ppl losing patience, but it seems like DAoC addiction is a real thing, getting it from shady dealers because they can't stop it haha. Anyway, mines still there until I have enough fun, but of course I think I already took part for my share of criticism, I just be part of it to make them valid, not bark from outside the gate or promote alternate solutions just as a revenge not listening to me.
I very much would love to see people return by some changes made that already been voiced so many times there is no real point to repeat.
/shiver