Is it time to create a new Pre ToA server?
Hi all,
As population has been low in DAoC for along time. Is it time we brought out a new Pre ToA server for those that preferred the old times of DAoC?
As population has been low in DAoC for along time. Is it time we brought out a new Pre ToA server for those that preferred the old times of DAoC?
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Answers
Just roll back before the 'class balance' patch...and maybe throw in ruined keep. There was a lot to love in Ywain (please note the 'was')....just go back to 'classic ywain' (pre pet/stealther patch)
win!
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Let's mention the time it took to get to 50...........very few, if any, had more than 1 lvl 50 due to the huge time sink when levelling.
People have this habit of looking at everything Pre ToA through rose tinted specs. It was good but post ToA is better.
....and 450-600 players at primetime is better? Mhm.....
You won't see those sorts of numbers again sadly and ToA has nothing to do with it.
These forums won’t produce that answer and that’s part of what’s wrong with Live. A very small percent of Live engages here yet this is what they use.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
[ToS] it`s all about ToA. (one of the best addons, imo)
If you want to reach this part of the daoc-community, ask them what they want.
Live is by far, best option to play Daoc.
Issue is population problem but at least for my time slot and playstyle it has slowly getting better.
insert youtube clip of Peter Sellers Birdie nam nam Scene in illustration on how it progress atm
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It makes sense to bring this into live if f2p is to be successful
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
While there may be a demand, there is little player retention long term. I think a ladder/season server type would be awesome and may address players losing interest over time.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
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Exactly
F2p so far sounds too restrictive. Their only hope is to offer something different like seasonal/ladder play. Lasts 2-6 months then auto transfer the entire sever back into Ywain. Then the server is wiped and next season starts. Can use the backup sever to Pendragon.
People want a new, a fresh start, with the QoL changes.
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
We just need options and not restrictions and 2-3 servers with different rule sets is what is needed if you want to keep things fresh in DAoC. I also think the subs should be lowered as this game is so old, if we brought the price down to around 5 pounds/10 dollers I'm pretty sure that will help.
The xp should not be slowed down. I think it should be possible for new people to level just as fast as live currently. Make restrictions rvr and item based. Rr4l9, maybe cl10, ml10 and only let ow and older items usable. That way they can still compete decently, might get some people to pay for a sub to unlock their rr5 ability and the items that you can only used at cl15. That way people can get a fairly good idea of real rvr, but not get completely destroyed by paying subs toons. That in and of itself would make me not want to actually pay for a game that I never played and literally got flawlessly destroyed by a rr12 geared to the teeth. Now if I got a taste of rvr and maybe could have killed something with my mediocre gear, I might be more inclined to pay for a sub to unlock better gear and higher rr
Remember, there were multiple rulesets in the past (PvP and "Classic"). These servers didn't last because they too suffered from population decline. Bringing them back doesn't solve the problem(s) they had.
F2P needs to be a functional form of DAoC that allows them to compete at the same level as subbed players. Otherwise, we won't retain any new or returning players making the whole effort pointless.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Everyone seem to have quit over things done to the game, ToA, Class balance, cursed, OW, OP items / procs / uses, cashshop, too many /uses to juggle making small man and solo too timer based and unfun, etc.
The people i talk to that have quit in the last 2 -3 years, no amount of free to play will bring them back, some of them would happily pay more per month in sub if it brought a better DAoC back, it all comes down to what have been done to classes in the last few years, that the answer to everything PvE is OW and cursed where every other zone feels useless, and things done to RvR.
Personally i feel that DAoC have become too shallow, it have become too much about fast 1-50, do OW + cursed, now forget about the rest of the game and go zerg quest updates for RP's and BP's. Personally i miss DF, ML10, ToA, Gala, Sidi, Tuscarn, AC, Moderna, fins, task dungeon pugs, just to name a few. Not enough community building things thise days that makes players care about each other and the world they are playing in.
DAoC pretty much went from spending hours with pugs farming XP, items, and so on, to quest 1 - 50 solo, quest for items 1 run per char OW / cursed with 7 others for a few hours with no reason to repeat, talk or see each other again, then go be random person 304 in a RvR BG.
Imo FTP wont fix this, retuning players will be faced with the same reason they quit in the first place, new players i doubt would join DAoC with the ftp model planned, with all the other options out there that are less restictive with higher populations and what i guess would seem like a less gloomy future to a new player.
A new server of some sort would be a good idea imo, send out a survey to closed DAoC accounts, learn the reason why they quit and what would bring them back. Send a different survey to active accounts, figure out what they like and dislike about ywain and gaheris. Replies made from closed accounts are rewarded with 7 days sub, replies from active accounts are rewarded with a set ammount of mithril. Build new and repair old servers from that. Trying to figure things out from the 5% of the playerbase that use the forum are not good enough.
If we like it or not, the DAoC population are already split between the Ywain players and the none Broadsword players, winning the players not with broardsword back, i personally think will benefit DAoC and ywain more, then whats currently happening.
I dont like private servers for alot of reasons and i would never play them, i really think tho that Broadsword need to pull something out of a darkplace people normaly sit on and do something before its too late.
Anyways thats the thoughts, feelings and ramblings of one of the many old grumpy DAoC players.
Oh dear what a text wall.
I would say that depended alot on the server, but generally yeah, however back then you had alot more community building PvE and pugs. Atleast thats how i felt it. Personally i tried to solo, small man and zerg from the first day i set foot in a RvR zone.
Edit:
I guess you could say back then zerging was for a different goal too, it was for your realm to archive something, you felt apart of the community that was either Alb, hib or mid, you had friendships from PvE pugs that you grouped with to fight for your realm and guild, to me its alot different to taking empty keeps with a zerg for quest updates.
Painting all mid keeps red for the first time on Alb Excalibur on EU, with alot of mids fighting back, felt alot more fun, then taking empty keeps with none caring thise days.
Atleast thats some of the differences i personally feel.
make a server with only one realm as an option and see what happens
hib igraine
Edit: The old Galladoria raids that lasted ~10 hours were fun to some point but there was never a guarantee to get loot. I don't miss that.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
With the market inflation and lack of macro groups now selling plat/items.. There needs to be an alternative way to get end-game items to keep up with the other half of the server..
They just want endgame because it`s the only stuff to do atm. There`s absolutly nothing between....
For people that didnt want to farm, like i personally didnt want to when i was mainly focused on 8 mans, the PvE crowd had things ready for me to buy in housing.
I love to play support chars, i have multiple druids, bards, healers, shamans, clerics etc, from EU and US servers, farming items for my zerg surfing chanter, could be done on my druid that i really enjoyed to play in groups, where i didnt much care for my chanter in groups, with OW and cursed thats dead too cause its 1 completion per char and armor rewards only within your armor class. ( Let me reset the quest chain so i can repeat it and open up all rewards to all classes or make nameds drop the items too ? )
DAoC was never only about the RvR tbh. On days when you werent in the mood for PvP you had plenty of PvE options and pretty much all the expansions been about PvE. Thats another thing that made DAoC great to me, i had both to fit whatever i was in the mood for.
Many of the people in RvR, defending and playing for realm pride, used to be PvE'ers fighting for the realm, the cosantoir / vakten /warder army that came out to defend the relics and keeps on the servers i played on atleast.
There are alot of big and minor reasons why the population is as it is, i can only list the ones i know about from chatting with old friends and guildies, many of who would love to return.
I kind of find it funny that out of all the things i listed that i know made my guildies and friends quit, the PvE part are the one jumped on immediately, the only response given is some things took too long, i would guess there are a happy medium between 10 hour raids and the 2 quest chains we got now.
Like update ML10 stuff, dragon items, DF items, to bring it in line with OW and cursed, give anfang, green knight, etc items worth having, create diversity in templates and PvE options again, or maybe just kill the powercreep that happend with OW, cursed and new DF items, remove myth stats from it all and bring procs / uses in line with the rest. ( Yes not gonna be popular :P )
But i guess there is no point in even trying to have a talk about it on thise forums, as everyone here seem to be happy with what they got except the population, while happily ignoring what reasons made the population they miss quit in the first place.
I know im in a minority in the current DAoC population, for liking every aspect of the game, from PvE to RvR, Solo to BG's. Maybe its time for me to leave too, time will tell i guess when sub runs out in a couple of months.
but i LOVE toa, toa was awesome, so many different cool zones with awesome looking stuff and many different types of pve boss encounters, always stuff to farm
game doesn't have population to make another server tho, it would be great if they gave artifacts a new or upgraded /use, that only worked if you went out and did the encounter or something, but seems to much work for them to do probably, it would be quite a lot of work i thinks
*edit* doh didn't read any posts cuz im to late to the party, and now i see the title said PRE toa, neverminds !
and toa is awesome **** pre toa, pre toa sux and so does everything after
I feel pre-toa actually has a nice feel to it, although i could care less about pre-toa or post-toa, I've had great times on live, I feel like both my subscriptions sadly will be coming to an end
TheWayForward
People are going from 1-50 in 3 hours, R7 in a week, you don't talk to anyone aside from the 6 friends you have left, you always rvr with the same group, you never invite randos into groups, the lfg chat should be rename the "looking for friends" chat. You get jammed you bitch about it, you never know if you are allowed to hit or not hit, you finally get in a good fight after 35 minutes of roaming just to get zerged, etc.
I don't think the patch level has anything to do with it, pre or post ToA isn't relevant. The free aspect kind of makes it more friendly for casuals that don't feel like they need to maximize their membership (15$ isn't much, but still more than zero). More casuals = more pop, that's it.
Progression has boiled to RPs and that's it. There's nothing else, it's just an empty shell where people will go out of their way to be a cancer to the game (stealth zergers I'm looking at you) so they can get RPs.
I for one think there is many issue that I've been hearing from a lot of people I run with is the and one of them is realm timers. This has been a constant issue that has come up many times but hasn't been sorted. The other thing is that the PvE content has gone from DAoC and doesn't exist. There is no community to level with as most can literally solo 1-50 in a day. This game was about team play and I've seen less and less of that since the increase or RP's which as gone way over the top and no realm timers.
Also half of the battlegrounds are empty and also the area's that people used to PvE are empty. This game has lost it's full potential and trying to narrow it so much to RvR has ruined this game. I agree the end content is RvR but you have to have a challenge in order to make people prepared for RvR and understand their toon. I think we've also failed to realise that people do play this game for PvE also and I'm afraid you lost that community. You need content and have a good idea how to structure this game in order to make it for people to enjoy. I'm afraid live servers fail all those expectations and for that that's why we are not getting people to stay.
F2P will not solve the issue of population it's the whole structure that needs to be solved from levelling to making battlegrounds active and to make area's worth playing in. If you narrow everything to one zone that's just creating restrictions and people like options. I get why they are trying to focus the action in one area due to activity is much lower than it used to be but then you are telling players that this game is dying. You need to have positivity where you make area's worth playing in again!
I understand this is hard thing to conquer but the way Broadsword are going will not bring in new or many returning players back. You only had to look at the first Come back to Camelot Campaign where population increased massively and then once over it quickly went back down again and you then realise that people don't like the direction of where this is going.
If Broadsword wont change things to improve the future of DAoC others will!
I could write what they want, but BS is not able to deliver that.
Just 2 points.... realmtimer and a monitored game where cheaters get what what they deserve, without that the community has to do the gamemasters job.
I don't have the answers to any of it. I do however, think that people want the game to continue and succeed, but there are way too many issues to address at this point, that it may be impossible to fix.
There is no longer a sense of 'realm' pride. People chase the rp's and that is it. What I don't understand is why? I chalk most of it up to selfishness. The rp's are not going to get you anywhere when there is no longer a player base to even sustain the rp drive that is so desperately sought.
The player base has become so toxic, that why would you even want to engage with someone that you don't know. Once upon a time, you used to make groups with people you didn't know, if someone was rude/ruined an encounter/greed over need on loot; you would disband then and not group with them. You would go out of your way to help people in your guild/alliance do raids, questing etc. You no longer need anyone in game to achieve those items, epic gear (what? who uses this?) etc. I can essentially go from 1-50, outfit my toon, get ml lines, etc and not interact with anyone in which to do so. That goes against the whole premise of what the game was founded on. It was about the journey.
It has nothing to do with play styles in rvr. Those have been around since day one. To pander to one set of play style is not helping the game as it flies in the face of everything that it originally stood for.
It is human nature to want to place blame on someone, whether it is the community, the knights (are they still around?), or BS themselves. The blame is on all of us for allowing it to get to where it is. That being said, the buck stops at BS. It is supposed to be their vision of the game and where they want to take it. Leadership starts with leading and having a clear vision of where/what you want to lead too. Several years ago it was asked in an mmo mag, where do you see Doac in 5 years? There was no answer to this question. You have to have a vision of where you want to be.
It is clear that there are a lot of passionate people out there, that still care for the game and want it to succeed.