Population growth hindered by toxic behavior
WARNING: WALL OF TEXT
If you're just looking for a quick summary, the title could basically be Poor Sportsmanship is Killing the Game.
This isn't about Broadsword, at this point they could offer every player everything they ever asked for on a platter and still not save the game if people don't start acting like actual human beings. The game is what we make it, no matter the mechanics. This is directed towards every player of every playstyle and how the biggest challenge BS faces is the toxic environment for new and returning players. Not going to bore you with a cheesy introduction, no names, classes or realms are singled out.
That said, I have been loyal subscriber since Shrouded Isles expansion, I've played to win, and played for fun. I've seen it all, I'm no stranger to region flaming. We are all aware of our ability to build that /ignore list and when to use it so I'm not in any way triggered by a few angry, attention seeking trolls. I am talking about genuine bullying. Its not just an issue of an /advice question being flamed either. In the last four days alone, I spotted more than a dozen new or returning players looking for quick advice, politely, only to be immediately ridiculed for the specified class they chose to roll. And I don't mean your typical stealther flaming either, that type of flaming is not even paid attention to anymore considering the lack of originality in the responses (/delete /reroll ect.). This is also a time when even I would suggest /ignore to anyone bothered by this type of trolling. What I am trying to describe goes much farther than sassy chatters.
An example of one: early week <New Player> asks in region for template advice or where to find, <Typical Region Twat> responds with ~Google is your friend~, I let this one go, <Region Twat #2> /reroll <realm> so at this point I messaged the subscriber myself and offered any help i was able to give, <New Player> is not triggered, but was pretty much at smh status because of the complete lack of help. It doesn't end here though, that's seriously not even close to how big the problem has become. I was able to direct them to the official forums, Postcount, a few YouTube channels and a link to some affordable templates with less than about 10 min of my personal time spent. All it took was a request for an email to link the pages and a friendly welcome to get them to log in again.
Its so much worse than just this though, I'm not going to beat the dead horse with the /bow Mordred exiles, but that is a huge problem as well. Players have taken what was supposed to be a quick way to get shards/gold and a more casual system for dedicated solo players, and abused it. Its become nothing less than an exploit for rp farming and cross realming. These zones are open to anyone and everyone contrary to what the farmers believe. They seem to think they have a free pass to bully and personally attack the last remaining paid subscribers anytime someone refuses to play the way they want you to play.
Once upon a time, the community managed to leave the <My dad can beat up your dad> mentality for @posts and +1 message board farming. You'd be hard pressed to find any one single hardcore player spamming region with personal attacks directed at playstyle, this has always been mutually reserved for more playful banter and the occasional random flame over a kill steal or add, they saved their sore loser mentality and cloudsong rage for the boards or Vent.
Obviously our community is MUCH smaller now, allowing this behavior to spill into the game on a regular basis, but that doesn't give anyone the right to repeatedly project their in game griefing towards others just trying to play the game. We are now witnessing free range harassment and personal attacks (TOS). They're getting away with it due to a lack of players willing to clap back at the QQ.
For example, when there was a much wider variety of personalities Mary could and would jump in /region and call Bob a trash player for stealing their deathblow, Bob may or may not defend himself but Mary would then have to deal with multiple "Someone died in an RvR zone", "U mad?" "No you" responses to even the playing field. I know for a fact those people that would have defended Bob from sore losers and control freaks like Mary are very much still here, they've just developed a state of indifference towards the negativity due to its consistency and prevalence in every realm and time zone.
It isn't just the new and returning subscribers getting abused either. I watch recorded Twitch streams at lunch, in the am before work ect., and I witness an extreme amount of unacceptable behavior towards streamers by viewers that don't like the way they play or that cant handle dying. I have seen streamers stream sniped because they had the audacity to kill someone in RVR, and yes they can and maybe should put a longer delay, still not ok. Rallying a posse for a good old fashioned revenge gank is one thing, but I've seen people in game and on twitch camped so hard they had no choice but to log. I have no issue with a bit of punishment for an unfair fight, but it is unacceptable (and genuinely creepy) to do it for so long that gameplay is hindered for a stupid amount of time.
This is shameful behavior.
Then ofc there's the streamers themselves that are just down right nasty, I've seen some scream so loud over a death that you can hear their spit hit the mike, I've seen streamers that are so foul I question the entire human race. Calling every single person they encounter every single name in the book with fury and vitriol because they died in RvR, and wont play the way they want them to play. This is without a doubt the most vile player mentality of all next to those who rage endlessly (and annoyingly) over adding. Nothing is more cringeworthy than that. Gross. They aren't even ashamed of it, poor sportsmanship has become an open and acceptable form of playstyle because we stopped publicly shaming sore losers. Ill be the first to admit enjoying the occasional region rage drama when bored, but again... this has gone so far beyond that.
I don't have the solution and I would never intend to dictate how one plays the game they pay to play, my only suggestion would be an updated, or just a more heavily enforced ToS, and with the release of these boards I think now is the time. They've created a place for all playstyles to discuss the game while encouraging constructive criticism and healthy debate. But as a community, stop letting them get away with this crap ingame. There is still a lightly moderated forum online that they can direct their rage and farm @posts on. Make them acknowledge that they have no idea who the person they are verbally abusing is at all, and they don't care. They are personally attacking other paying customers, and it is crazy that we've let it go on, because at one point we managed to more or less erase derogatory words used to describe ones mental status, race, or sexual identity. We did it by consistently calling them out on it every single time. no free passes for that, no exceptions. How did we get back here?
If you're just looking for a quick summary, the title could basically be Poor Sportsmanship is Killing the Game.
This isn't about Broadsword, at this point they could offer every player everything they ever asked for on a platter and still not save the game if people don't start acting like actual human beings. The game is what we make it, no matter the mechanics. This is directed towards every player of every playstyle and how the biggest challenge BS faces is the toxic environment for new and returning players. Not going to bore you with a cheesy introduction, no names, classes or realms are singled out.
That said, I have been loyal subscriber since Shrouded Isles expansion, I've played to win, and played for fun. I've seen it all, I'm no stranger to region flaming. We are all aware of our ability to build that /ignore list and when to use it so I'm not in any way triggered by a few angry, attention seeking trolls. I am talking about genuine bullying. Its not just an issue of an /advice question being flamed either. In the last four days alone, I spotted more than a dozen new or returning players looking for quick advice, politely, only to be immediately ridiculed for the specified class they chose to roll. And I don't mean your typical stealther flaming either, that type of flaming is not even paid attention to anymore considering the lack of originality in the responses (/delete /reroll ect.). This is also a time when even I would suggest /ignore to anyone bothered by this type of trolling. What I am trying to describe goes much farther than sassy chatters.
An example of one: early week <New Player> asks in region for template advice or where to find, <Typical Region Twat> responds with ~Google is your friend~, I let this one go, <Region Twat #2> /reroll <realm> so at this point I messaged the subscriber myself and offered any help i was able to give, <New Player> is not triggered, but was pretty much at smh status because of the complete lack of help. It doesn't end here though, that's seriously not even close to how big the problem has become. I was able to direct them to the official forums, Postcount, a few YouTube channels and a link to some affordable templates with less than about 10 min of my personal time spent. All it took was a request for an email to link the pages and a friendly welcome to get them to log in again.
Its so much worse than just this though, I'm not going to beat the dead horse with the /bow Mordred exiles, but that is a huge problem as well. Players have taken what was supposed to be a quick way to get shards/gold and a more casual system for dedicated solo players, and abused it. Its become nothing less than an exploit for rp farming and cross realming. These zones are open to anyone and everyone contrary to what the farmers believe. They seem to think they have a free pass to bully and personally attack the last remaining paid subscribers anytime someone refuses to play the way they want you to play.
Once upon a time, the community managed to leave the <My dad can beat up your dad> mentality for @posts and +1 message board farming. You'd be hard pressed to find any one single hardcore player spamming region with personal attacks directed at playstyle, this has always been mutually reserved for more playful banter and the occasional random flame over a kill steal or add, they saved their sore loser mentality and cloudsong rage for the boards or Vent.
Obviously our community is MUCH smaller now, allowing this behavior to spill into the game on a regular basis, but that doesn't give anyone the right to repeatedly project their in game griefing towards others just trying to play the game. We are now witnessing free range harassment and personal attacks (TOS). They're getting away with it due to a lack of players willing to clap back at the QQ.
For example, when there was a much wider variety of personalities Mary could and would jump in /region and call Bob a trash player for stealing their deathblow, Bob may or may not defend himself but Mary would then have to deal with multiple "Someone died in an RvR zone", "U mad?" "No you" responses to even the playing field. I know for a fact those people that would have defended Bob from sore losers and control freaks like Mary are very much still here, they've just developed a state of indifference towards the negativity due to its consistency and prevalence in every realm and time zone.
It isn't just the new and returning subscribers getting abused either. I watch recorded Twitch streams at lunch, in the am before work ect., and I witness an extreme amount of unacceptable behavior towards streamers by viewers that don't like the way they play or that cant handle dying. I have seen streamers stream sniped because they had the audacity to kill someone in RVR, and yes they can and maybe should put a longer delay, still not ok. Rallying a posse for a good old fashioned revenge gank is one thing, but I've seen people in game and on twitch camped so hard they had no choice but to log. I have no issue with a bit of punishment for an unfair fight, but it is unacceptable (and genuinely creepy) to do it for so long that gameplay is hindered for a stupid amount of time.
This is shameful behavior.
Then ofc there's the streamers themselves that are just down right nasty, I've seen some scream so loud over a death that you can hear their spit hit the mike, I've seen streamers that are so foul I question the entire human race. Calling every single person they encounter every single name in the book with fury and vitriol because they died in RvR, and wont play the way they want them to play. This is without a doubt the most vile player mentality of all next to those who rage endlessly (and annoyingly) over adding. Nothing is more cringeworthy than that. Gross. They aren't even ashamed of it, poor sportsmanship has become an open and acceptable form of playstyle because we stopped publicly shaming sore losers. Ill be the first to admit enjoying the occasional region rage drama when bored, but again... this has gone so far beyond that.
I don't have the solution and I would never intend to dictate how one plays the game they pay to play, my only suggestion would be an updated, or just a more heavily enforced ToS, and with the release of these boards I think now is the time. They've created a place for all playstyles to discuss the game while encouraging constructive criticism and healthy debate. But as a community, stop letting them get away with this crap ingame. There is still a lightly moderated forum online that they can direct their rage and farm @posts on. Make them acknowledge that they have no idea who the person they are verbally abusing is at all, and they don't care. They are personally attacking other paying customers, and it is crazy that we've let it go on, because at one point we managed to more or less erase derogatory words used to describe ones mental status, race, or sexual identity. We did it by consistently calling them out on it every single time. no free passes for that, no exceptions. How did we get back here?
Comments
Frankly - I would like to see realm timers back- maybe 3hrs? Then again, many of the problems are dual logged.
That said - it's the community or its representatives who should be helping new comers or returnees with this steep learning curve. I answer questions in /tels, I drop a cure rez sick on people when they ask in region.
It is a problem - I am in no way disputing that - but the steep learning curve and getting to where you can be competitive is costly, time consuming and a lot to learn. The issues in /Region are just the cherry on top of a bitter sundae.
~Cheers
Sav
maybe bs could add 2 4 8 man instances---- would probably contain much of the toxic behavior
Character List
Youtube Channel
Twitch Channel
Templates
Alb Casters
Cabalist/Sorc/Wizard/Wizard Crescendo/Wind Theurgist/Earth Theurgist 10conversion 8pierce OR 8conversion 10pierce
Hib Casters
Mentalist/Eldritch/Enchanter/Animist/Bainshee
Mid Casters
Spiritmaster/Runemaster/Runemaster 126dex no GMoV/Bonedancer/Warlock/Warlock Set
Support
Pac Healer 25CCreduc/Aug Healer/Group Shaman/Small/Solo Shaman Set/Friar Heal 25CCreduc/Cleric Heal/Warden Heal 30CCreduc/Druid Group
Hybrids
Group VW/Group Scout/*New*Group Thane/Necro Painworking
Tanks
Group Hero
i dont think many people quit because of toxic behaviour on a forum or osmethign, they quit because they go in game and they get zerged or added on every single fight and are like wow this game is lame i remmeber why i quit last time, toxic behavior doesn't help, but it is the least of daocs problems imo
DAOC isn't a dueling game, the toxic attitude is "what can i do not to die, whichever the cost is" or "how can i destroy other people games sessions"
/agree with OP
Boy your rule book is thick. Do you change it daily like the irc folks?
you guys seriously quit because someone makes fun of you on a video game on the internet ? lol.. -_-
From what I gathered, none of this was directed at the forums, just that back in the day that is where the playground insults used to stay.. Didn't see anyone complain about being made fun of either, OP stated in a few sentences that general trolls are easily /ignored. Pretty sure it was directed at /advice questions that are immediately trolled by so many bored people that their questions are never answered. Add that to the lack of Google info and I totally agree its a problem. Its easy to respond with immediate insults on the internet, especially if you're having a bad day, or just enjoy drawing attention to yourself, some people just enjoy being nasty. Its easier to be a twat than to take the time to actually deal with people in a calm manner. I also agree that once upon a time people couldn't get away with it like they do now, people had a spine back then and didn't let it happen as often, which maintained balance.
Have played Hib/Mid both rather equally since SI, Mid for the last 6 yrs I can at least add that in US PT most playing Mid are pretty chill, during the day EST its a whole different range of personalities.
@Triggx_8KoS1 I think I know which streamer you're referring to getting sniped off Twitch IRL.. and if it is, the guy had a vile attitude, crazy rage with every death, he even complained when he won. Then one day someone in his chat finally called him out on being a total hypocrite, he went ballistic, but kept streaming, then got called out again and haven't seen him since.
But If someone doesn't like the way you play then send them a link to your PayPal account so they can purchase your GTC. I have and always will be that person that helps the new guy, if you see someone getting bullied be the one to speak up for them, don't just assume they're able to do it themselves.