Why doesn't it get effected by det? Why did it go from a 45min reuse timer from the old 'sin version to a 45s reuse timer? Why did Broadsword originally think that a 15s reuse timer on mez poison was a good idea? Why did Broadsword think only a 45s reuse timer on mez poison was a good idea? Why is snare poison on a 6(8?) second timer and can be used during the whole fight (perma), allowing any semi-good player to get ANY positional style off at any time on their opponent because they are snared 60% and can't move? Why can 'sins stand toe-to-toe with tanks and rip them the majority of the time without perf chain, or vanish if they don't? What tactical purpose does vanish serve other than using it to run away from any fight that doesn't go their way?
Ahhh the beautiful game that Broadsword has created
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
Why doesn't it get effected by det? Why did it go from a 45min reuse timer from the old 'sin version to a 45s reuse timer? Why did Broadsword originally think that a 15s reuse timer on mez poison was a good idea? Why did Broadsword think only a 45s reuse timer on mez poison was a good idea? Why is snare poison on a 6(8?) second timer and can be used during the whole fight (perma), allowing any semi-good player to get ANY positional style off at any time on their opponent because they are snared 60% and can't move? Why can 'sins stand toe-to-toe with tanks and rip them the majority of the time without perf chain, or vanish if they don't? What tactical purpose does vanish serve other than using it to run away from any fight that doesn't go their way?
Ahhh the beautiful game that Broadsword has created
1. It should be effected by det.
2. Old mez poison was fine, just summon every time it was up and keep them in your bag or on weapons. But the new envenom system changed that, once you change one thing it opens the door to all kinds of changes in the name of "balance"
3. Why was snare poison implemented? Why not just a snare style? This is a question not a snotty remark.
4. Vanish is retarded at times. I get the idea, make your opponent burn his toys, reset the fight, heal up, hit them with their toys down. But this rarely happens. Vanish is just used to walk away until it is back up. When I think of an assassin vanishing I think of the old magician flash bomb disappear trick you see at cheap magic shows. Maybe vanish should be an aoe short duration stun, puts the assassin into stealth but normal stealth not impervious stealth. Don't give the assassin the disarmed effect. As it is now if you have a decent level in vanish you can almost always walk away. Make the walk away harder to get. Not a perfect idea, just a thought.
Why doesn't it get effected by det? Why did it go from a 45min reuse timer from the old 'sin version to a 45s reuse timer? Why did Broadsword originally think that a 15s reuse timer on mez poison was a good idea? Why did Broadsword think only a 45s reuse timer on mez poison was a good idea? Why is snare poison on a 6(8?) second timer and can be used during the whole fight (perma), allowing any semi-good player to get ANY positional style off at any time on their opponent because they are snared 60% and can't move? Why can 'sins stand toe-to-toe with tanks and rip them the majority of the time without perf chain, or vanish if they don't? What tactical purpose does vanish serve other than using it to run away from any fight that doesn't go their way?
Ahhh the beautiful game that Broadsword has created
1. It should be effected by det.
2. Old mez poison was fine, just summon every time it was up and keep them in your bag or on weapons. But the new envenom system changed that, once you change one thing it opens the door to all kinds of changes in the name of "balance"
3. Why was snare poison implemented? Why not just a snare style? This is a question not a snotty remark.
4. Vanish is retarded at times. I get the idea, make your opponent burn his toys, reset the fight, heal up, hit them with their toys down. But this rarely happens. Vanish is just used to walk away until it is back up. When I think of an assassin vanishing I think of the old magician flash bomb disappear trick you see at cheap magic shows. Maybe vanish should be an aoe short duration stun, puts the assassin into stealth but normal stealth not impervious stealth. Don't give the assassin the disarmed effect. As it is now if you have a decent level in vanish you can almost always walk away. Make the walk away harder to get. Not a perfect idea, just a thought.
Good points. I love the point about the snare poison vs snare style. Before, assassin snare was a style with a medium defense penalty which was not so bad. It was also only 40% snare and lasted for 4(?) seconds. New snare poison has no penalty to using it at all
The sheer number of tools that Assassins have been given just seems utterly ridiculous.
It is ! So many Sneeks now do not even care to sidestun you out of stealth (probably do not even have PA), they just run up and melee your tank down 1on1. Mezz into stun and debuffs make sure without purge you loose the fight for sure and in case you might still win vanish ...
You guys should spend some time on a sin before you scream op this op that. IMO the poisons got nerfed quite a bit. The only thing I like about the new system is that I don't have to have an inventory full of weapons and they can't be resisted. Other than that I liked the old system better. The whole mez poison thing just got easier to use but I still have like 600 of the old ones. So those were anytime as well not a 45 min timer like some people think. Plus sins lose a ton to other classes if their purge isn't up as well.
... and then they vanish and go AFK and jerk it in the trees til it's back up?
That's what really gets to people. You get swarmed by invisible people and if you actually manage to overcome them they can vanish away. Granted, that isn't foolproof and they can be caught.
If you get away, they can shadowstep or whatever this game calls it and blink into melee range.
Poisons are what they are and are part of the class - but I do take issue with mez poison.
All of this, combined with RAs, combined with all of the new item options for self healing etc. just makes them a big old pain in the ass. Combine that with them often rolling in groups, as well as the sheer number of people who play these classes during my playtimes (seems like 30% of any given realm during late PST are Assassin's. I've taken to just running right the hell away to troll them and hunting them mercilessly when I can.
To clarify - Assassin's likely have their own issues that are obvious when you play the class, but they're currently annoying as hell to everyone else and I think their ability to flee/reset fights combined with everything else isn't a good place to be. I don't really have any great ideas to contribute either. They just aren't a very fun part of DAoC nowadays. I don't want to see them nerfed into oblivion either, just... reconsidered in a few aspects.
Sins have too many ways to escape and on the other hand too many tools that add up. On my toons I rather fight most visibles (except mauler, vamp and Friar) than sins, especially since there is a high chance that even if the fight goes my way they just vanish or mezz poison run away and stealth.
The fact that dual line+weapon line+stealth+poison (and low or no CS) spec sins can easily win most 1on1s even without any stealth because opponents are debuffs to below 200 damage per swing (with a 2-handed weapon) is just wrong. At least I demand a successful alpha strike ...
ATM I would like the following
vanish: can only be used for 20 seconds after an successful kill (does not need to be a deathblow)
mezz poison: only works on any OTHER target than the attacked one (to mezz adds but not to get an additional CC in a duel)
debuff poisons: Lower the value of the WS debuff, I'm ok to give a slight DOT damage increase to compensate
BTW Fumble proc + disarm charge + debuff poison is probably the biggest problem, but I don't see BS to change it.
High cs is not worth it imo (maybe on sb) and without WS debuff u would have a hard time surviving any Opponent that is not a caster.
Succesfull Alpha strikes..takes some time to Master this in high speed targets but np..ppl can manage..but i feel dmg is not rly worth it on armored targets. CD is sure nice for stun but u get blocked and even evaded by low evade classes like skalds
Mezz poison has a very large range, i will admit that. But plz consider, u have to spec high poison + 50 Stealth to have acces to all these tools, making it hard to have high weapon spec. And you cant even make a real Profit of high RR like it was in the past.
Even with stealth on lvl +RR u get shot from stealth by any archer..
As to vanish..choosing ur fights and fleeing if needed is crucial part of any gameplay, or any class and MMORPG if u wish. Its an RA so u Pay for that tool by giving up others depending in RR and its not like u can PA-chain ur Target again the nxt second.
Stealth zergs sure are a pain i get that, but u cant tell me Assassins are op bc they know how to grp up, come on..
Stealth zergs sure are a pain i get that, but u cant tell me Assassins are op bc they know how to grp up, come on..
I don't think that is really the main point anybody is getting at. That's inevitable and we all know it. Grouping just multiplies the other frustrations that have been stated.
Sins have too many ways to escape and on the other hand too many tools that add up. On my toons I rather fight most visibles (except mauler, vamp and Friar) than sins, especially since there is a high chance that even if the fight goes my way they just vanish or mezz poison run away and stealth.
The fact that dual line+weapon line+stealth+poison (and low or no CS) spec sins can easily win most 1on1s even without any stealth because opponents are debuffs to below 200 damage per swing (with a 2-handed weapon) is just wrong. At least I demand a successful alpha strike ...
ATM I would like the following
vanish: can only be used for 20 seconds after an successful kill (does not need to be a deathblow)
mezz poison: only works on any OTHER target than the attacked one (to mezz adds but not to get an additional CC in a duel)
debuff poisons: Lower the value of the WS debuff, I'm ok to give a slight DOT damage increase to compensate
BTW Fumble proc + disarm charge + debuff poison is probably the biggest problem, but I don't see BS to change it.
Comments
Ahhh the beautiful game that Broadsword has created
1. It should be effected by det.
2. Old mez poison was fine, just summon every time it was up and keep them in your bag or on weapons. But the new envenom system changed that, once you change one thing it opens the door to all kinds of changes in the name of "balance"
3. Why was snare poison implemented? Why not just a snare style? This is a question not a snotty remark.
4. Vanish is retarded at times. I get the idea, make your opponent burn his toys, reset the fight, heal up, hit them with their toys down. But this rarely happens. Vanish is just used to walk away until it is back up. When I think of an assassin vanishing I think of the old magician flash bomb disappear trick you see at cheap magic shows. Maybe vanish should be an aoe short duration stun, puts the assassin into stealth but normal stealth not impervious stealth. Don't give the assassin the disarmed effect. As it is now if you have a decent level in vanish you can almost always walk away. Make the walk away harder to get. Not a perfect idea, just a thought.
Good points. I love the point about the snare poison vs snare style. Before, assassin snare was a style with a medium defense penalty which was not so bad. It was also only 40% snare and lasted for 4(?) seconds. New snare poison has no penalty to using it at all
Yes.
It is ! So many Sneeks now do not even care to sidestun you out of stealth (probably do not even have PA), they just run up and melee your tank down 1on1. Mezz into stun and debuffs make sure without purge you loose the fight for sure and in case you might still win vanish ...
That's what really gets to people. You get swarmed by invisible people and if you actually manage to overcome them they can vanish away. Granted, that isn't foolproof and they can be caught.
If you get away, they can shadowstep or whatever this game calls it and blink into melee range.
Poisons are what they are and are part of the class - but I do take issue with mez poison.
All of this, combined with RAs, combined with all of the new item options for self healing etc. just makes them a big old pain in the ass. Combine that with them often rolling in groups, as well as the sheer number of people who play these classes during my playtimes (seems like 30% of any given realm during late PST are Assassin's. I've taken to just running right the hell away to troll them and hunting them mercilessly when I can.
To clarify - Assassin's likely have their own issues that are obvious when you play the class, but they're currently annoying as hell to everyone else and I think their ability to flee/reset fights combined with everything else isn't a good place to be. I don't really have any great ideas to contribute either. They just aren't a very fun part of DAoC nowadays. I don't want to see them nerfed into oblivion either, just... reconsidered in a few aspects.
The fact that dual line+weapon line+stealth+poison (and low or no CS) spec sins can easily win most 1on1s even without any stealth because opponents are debuffs to below 200 damage per swing (with a 2-handed weapon) is just wrong. At least I demand a successful alpha strike ...
ATM I would like the following
vanish: can only be used for 20 seconds after an successful kill (does not need to be a deathblow)
mezz poison: only works on any OTHER target than the attacked one (to mezz adds but not to get an additional CC in a duel)
debuff poisons: Lower the value of the WS debuff, I'm ok to give a slight DOT damage increase to compensate
BTW Fumble proc + disarm charge + debuff poison is probably the biggest problem, but I don't see BS to change it.
Succesfull Alpha strikes..takes some time to Master this in high speed targets but np..ppl can manage..but i feel dmg is not rly worth it on armored targets. CD is sure nice for stun but u get blocked and even evaded by low evade classes like skalds
Mezz poison has a very large range, i will admit that. But plz consider, u have to spec high poison + 50 Stealth to have acces to all these tools, making it hard to have high weapon spec. And you cant even make a real Profit of high RR like it was in the past.
Even with stealth on lvl +RR u get shot from stealth by any archer..
As to vanish..choosing ur fights and fleeing if needed is crucial part of any gameplay, or any class and MMORPG if u wish. Its an RA so u Pay for that tool by giving up others depending in RR and its not like u can PA-chain ur Target again the nxt second.
Stealth zergs sure are a pain i get that, but u cant tell me Assassins are op bc they know how to grp up, come on..
I don't think that is really the main point anybody is getting at. That's inevitable and we all know it. Grouping just multiplies the other frustrations that have been stated.
QFT cause there's no "like" option.