I don't disagree with people leaving because of ToA (and WoW honestly, but the game is wildly different now
You see, a lot of the content starting with ToA was not very popular with a large number of players. The fact that private servers manage to attract a higher player base than the actual live server speaks volumes about that. Nobody is interested in returning to live, it has been dead for years because instead of listening to what players would be interested in, new events were added with ever more items that were must-have, new weapons that were vastly superior to previous ones, items with charges that would help you win fights easy.
Instead of that kind of content, an actual recurring season server for people to play on older patch-states would have been vastly more popular. It has been requested for nearly 15 years at this point (instead of we got the **** Salisbury "classic" server that added all the other crap content nobody liked).
Will a server like that suddenly bring back 20000 players to the game? Surely not, it is way too old for that. But there is a very real chance that you can achieve what recent private servers have and get over 3000 players online at the same time (without any buffbots).
And as far as I can tell, 3000 players would be somewhere between 5 to 10 times the current live server population.
[EDIT] Returning to DAoC has become a chore, because you are automatically excluded from endgame RvR if you are not templated to near what is currently best. Just like returning players got absolutely steamrolled when ToA boni were added and they fought against people with significantly better templates.
If you had the choice to:
1. Start DAoC again, experience it all and have the chance to play RvR without the content you quit the game over.
2. Return to a live server with 90% of players rr10 or above, waste your time in PvE content in a futile attempt to catch up.
I know what I will pick every time. I have zero interest in returning to the current live server. Ever.
I will however spend my free time testing a classic server to make it the best possible experience for everyone in the hopes to have a server that is actually fun and interesting to play for enough players to make the server last for a while.
And no matter how much certain people cry, it is a very real fact that more people enjoy private servers and their content than the current live server. People have very different reasons to prefer the 1.65 patchstate (or any server without ToA/Lab/Catacombs) and it is not up to certain people with a superiority complex to judge which reasons are "right". Player numbers are proof enough what people actually prefer and it would be folly to ignore it.
3000 concurrent players at launch that diminishes within 6 months to ~1000. Third experiment is ongoing and my money is it will experience the same trend despite being "different." Using launch numbers as a metric for success is silly in MMOs. The sustainable population is what matters.
3000 concurrent players at launch that diminishes within 6 months to ~1000. Third experiment is ongoing and my money is it will experience the same trend despite being "different." Using launch numbers as a metric for success is silly in MMOs. The sustainable population is what matters.
Private Servers have consistently outperformed the liver server in player numbers for years.
You can be toxic all you want, it is obvious to everyone that you are wrong and just pissing around because you cannot stomach the idea of people preferring to start on a 1.65 classic server all from zero every 18 month instead of with you on live to get farmed.
[EDIT] I bet Broadsword would prefer a 1.65 classic server that gets reset every 18 month that attracts 5000 players with subscriptions over one live server with 1000. It really isn't about what you want Mr. Putler.
Private servers only outperformed Live in concurrent players since 2017. You can view me as being toxic, but I'm simply stating facts. The attraction to classic DAoC is largely rooted in nostalgia and is not sustainable long term. Why people left the game over a decade ago is irrelevant as those issues have been addressed. The unresolved issue is player retention which every version of DAoC suffers from. This is a PvP game dressed as an MMO. No amount of content rollback will prevent the inevitable, "I'm not having fun because I can't compete due to (insert reason here)."
I personally don't care about starting over as I've done it a handful of times already. However, going through the same motions expecting a different outcome is insanity. BS is in a lose-lose situation. They don't have the dev power or talent to bring what we've seen elsewhere to the official servers nor have they been able to bring the game into the modern era without breaking it along the way. You're probably unaware that the lead DAoC producer, John Thornhill, left without a word. That's how much disdain there is for the current development team amongst the remaining community which has nothing to do with any of the issues you cited from over a decade ago.
But hey, I'm sure releasing a classic server will fix everything somehow.
You mean the "I just made this up" kind of facts right?
Because the player base on live is the non-sustainable part. Private servers regularly attract enough players to have a very active server for 12 months, with consistent player numbers between 5-10 times of the live server..
After that player numbers drop, severs closes, and everyone moves on to the next server to start over, which again has more players the live server for the duration of its existence.
I can log into a private server right now that has 2 times the number of players in the frontier that live server has in total.
Please keep trying to convince yourself that the current live server (and its content) is where the future of DAoC lies.
It is not.
Why do private servers exist at all? Because people prefer a different patch-state of the game than what they can play on live. There is no way on earth that you can make people who despise the content that is essential on live, to return to the game there.
So if the majority of the player base wants something different, you either provide a product or you will lose the players forever.
So the solution to making DAoC great again for another 20 years is a patch level that lasts for about a year before becoming worse than the current state of Ywain. I'm glad you're looking at the long term big picture.
What you just described hasn't been in the game for over a decade.
It was the content that was responsible for the single largest drop in player numbers.
Better just play WoW and raid with your guild, because there you do not have to camp GoV for 24h only to see someone solo it with 3 accounts before your guildies can arrive.
People quit because they could not be arsed to care about a game that made it virtually impossible to maintain competitiveness in RvR without no-lifing every new content update.
ToA was badly implemented but brought a lot of good things to the game.
It was WoW that killed DAoC, that is the inconvenient truth. For the majority of people that ever placed this game (250k subs at one point) it was simply a better game, however much we disagree with them.
I love daoc at its core, but I'm not really interested in Ywain OR patch 1.65. What I am hoping for is a good starting point (ruleset) somewhere between those two extremes, and most importantly, steady progress to a better game. My expectations are quite low and I am open to a wide range of "starting points", but progress (in the form of patches) is important and always has been.
I also have to say, I am very sceptical of Broadsword's enthusiasm for "cool" events like realm invasion. This sounds like a waste of valuable resources for something that, even if succesful (big if), is very short lived.
Since nobody is giving out any updates on this supposed server, which in my opinion never existed in the first place, you can safely assume that the project is dead.
As we know "someone" managed to **** up their servers and zones when they fiddled with the game client for their ill-conceived basement-made "expansion content".
If you ask about the server on the discord you get the run-around and no actual answer and official updates on a timeline are non-existent. If you want to play DAoC on a "classic server", don't expect to be able to do it on one run by Broadsword anytime soon.
New server was reduced in priority based on comments made by the producer on their discord last week. Ywain is again top priority which means the new server has been effectively shelved.
Hello,
i was long term player from daoc beta till like 5 years ago, lvled and geared up 20 charracters, played on all types of servers (except PvE), since im pvp/rvr player, Mordred was TOP for me. Then all merged to Ywain, enjoyed RvR, have RR11, RR10, couple RR8, RR7 and alot of RR5 chars - all this before BS starting to release alot of that RP and BP bonuses (before inflation). I was young and had time to play because i was student. Now i sometimes log in and look around...
Just readed this thread and i have to say - every game is going to die, right when is released. BS can only slow down this process. I agree with many arguments by Endoria but puter also have good point.
Game needs both - noobs prefering zerg and less buttons and power players, complexity was keep added into game because it was keeping powerplayers in. I was one of them. But now i dont have much time to play, need log in and go without farming/grinding mobs. But i also enjoy big PvE raids and quests (ToA was fine at release), but now since game is almost dead its obsolete.
So what BS should do first since Ywain is priority (as puter say) ?
First of all - merge that YwainXXXXX s*iet into one server (should be done many years). Lower group size to something like 4-5 players. Add open PvP arena Mordred like (should be easy). Also there should be classic RvR zone, something like - only classic chars can get in, all non classic gear will be stripped while porting etc. In general game needs to be smaller - cut 50% of RvR/PvP zones.
Then after all this changes there is last one that should be considered - wipe (or made new fresh server).
Ywain 1-10 are already merged. They differ only in housing.
I'm not the one who claimed Ywain is a priority. That was the producer on the offfiial Discord which everyone should be in if you want current information. These forums serve little to no purpose since the last mass exodus.
It may not be a popular opinion on this thread, butI really don't know if I would want an official classic server. I've been back about a year on Ywaine after about a 16ish year consecutive break. It took a while to get back into things at the same level I was when I left, but I like the new DAOC better than the classic DAOC at this point in time.
Here is why:
-TOA is no longer an issue, and actually worthwhile to do. It requires almost no effort, and you can completely knock out most TOA requirements in one single run of the TOA bounty quests at level 50. Characters are a LOT more powerful these days, and most of the old raid dungeons can be duo'd. It's very chill and none of that old Everquest/WOW raid stuff is required.
-While everybody is High RR, it has also never been easier to get a High RR character (from my experience). People who participate in events, which recreate a lot of the old style high number battles, often go from RR0-RR8+ within a week. I've gotten 460k in a single day at one of these events,and there's probably people laughing at how low that is. The gap closes fast.
-I would not want to start completely over again. LGMing all trade skills, having a hoard of plat, and undoing a year's worth of investment just are not appealing. I can get a lot done in a short amount of time in the current setting, and that works for me. DAOC has become very convenient.
I completely respect other's want for such a server, and i would have come back to a classic server first, based on my original bias, if it were available a year ago. I do not want one released though because it may depopulate Ywaine, and that would be bad given that Albion has 25-150 people on most of the time depending on off/peak. I don't want to see Ywaine suffer for the Classic server.
I would rather them focus their efforts on some of the things wrong with the game that would be broken on both a classic and modern server.
The only two items that would get me to consider leaving Ywaine would be a return to the original Old Frontier maps, or if they replaced all the water in NF with lava. Otherwise I would probably just cancel sub if they crashed the population of Ywaine forcing me to leave.
Comments
You see, a lot of the content starting with ToA was not very popular with a large number of players. The fact that private servers manage to attract a higher player base than the actual live server speaks volumes about that. Nobody is interested in returning to live, it has been dead for years because instead of listening to what players would be interested in, new events were added with ever more items that were must-have, new weapons that were vastly superior to previous ones, items with charges that would help you win fights easy.
Instead of that kind of content, an actual recurring season server for people to play on older patch-states would have been vastly more popular. It has been requested for nearly 15 years at this point (instead of we got the **** Salisbury "classic" server that added all the other crap content nobody liked).
Will a server like that suddenly bring back 20000 players to the game? Surely not, it is way too old for that. But there is a very real chance that you can achieve what recent private servers have and get over 3000 players online at the same time (without any buffbots).
And as far as I can tell, 3000 players would be somewhere between 5 to 10 times the current live server population.
[EDIT] Returning to DAoC has become a chore, because you are automatically excluded from endgame RvR if you are not templated to near what is currently best. Just like returning players got absolutely steamrolled when ToA boni were added and they fought against people with significantly better templates.
If you had the choice to:
1. Start DAoC again, experience it all and have the chance to play RvR without the content you quit the game over.
2. Return to a live server with 90% of players rr10 or above, waste your time in PvE content in a futile attempt to catch up.
I know what I will pick every time. I have zero interest in returning to the current live server. Ever.
I will however spend my free time testing a classic server to make it the best possible experience for everyone in the hopes to have a server that is actually fun and interesting to play for enough players to make the server last for a while.
And no matter how much certain people cry, it is a very real fact that more people enjoy private servers and their content than the current live server. People have very different reasons to prefer the 1.65 patchstate (or any server without ToA/Lab/Catacombs) and it is not up to certain people with a superiority complex to judge which reasons are "right". Player numbers are proof enough what people actually prefer and it would be folly to ignore it.
Private Servers have consistently outperformed the liver server in player numbers for years.
You can be toxic all you want, it is obvious to everyone that you are wrong and just pissing around because you cannot stomach the idea of people preferring to start on a 1.65 classic server all from zero every 18 month instead of with you on live to get farmed.
[EDIT] I bet Broadsword would prefer a 1.65 classic server that gets reset every 18 month that attracts 5000 players with subscriptions over one live server with 1000. It really isn't about what you want Mr. Putler.
I personally don't care about starting over as I've done it a handful of times already. However, going through the same motions expecting a different outcome is insanity. BS is in a lose-lose situation. They don't have the dev power or talent to bring what we've seen elsewhere to the official servers nor have they been able to bring the game into the modern era without breaking it along the way. You're probably unaware that the lead DAoC producer, John Thornhill, left without a word. That's how much disdain there is for the current development team amongst the remaining community which has nothing to do with any of the issues you cited from over a decade ago.
But hey, I'm sure releasing a classic server will fix everything somehow.
Because the player base on live is the non-sustainable part. Private servers regularly attract enough players to have a very active server for 12 months, with consistent player numbers between 5-10 times of the live server..
After that player numbers drop, severs closes, and everyone moves on to the next server to start over, which again has more players the live server for the duration of its existence.
I can log into a private server right now that has 2 times the number of players in the frontier that live server has in total.
Please keep trying to convince yourself that the current live server (and its content) is where the future of DAoC lies.
It is not.
Why do private servers exist at all? Because people prefer a different patch-state of the game than what they can play on live. There is no way on earth that you can make people who despise the content that is essential on live, to return to the game there.
So if the majority of the player base wants something different, you either provide a product or you will lose the players forever.
ToA was badly implemented but brought a lot of good things to the game.
It was WoW that killed DAoC, that is the inconvenient truth. For the majority of people that ever placed this game (250k subs at one point) it was simply a better game, however much we disagree with them.
I also have to say, I am very sceptical of Broadsword's enthusiasm for "cool" events like realm invasion. This sounds like a waste of valuable resources for something that, even if succesful (big if), is very short lived.
As we know "someone" managed to **** up their servers and zones when they fiddled with the game client for their ill-conceived basement-made "expansion content".
If you ask about the server on the discord you get the run-around and no actual answer and official updates on a timeline are non-existent. If you want to play DAoC on a "classic server", don't expect to be able to do it on one run by Broadsword anytime soon.
i was long term player from daoc beta till like 5 years ago, lvled and geared up 20 charracters, played on all types of servers (except PvE), since im pvp/rvr player, Mordred was TOP for me. Then all merged to Ywain, enjoyed RvR, have RR11, RR10, couple RR8, RR7 and alot of RR5 chars - all this before BS starting to release alot of that RP and BP bonuses (before inflation). I was young and had time to play because i was student. Now i sometimes log in and look around...
Just readed this thread and i have to say - every game is going to die, right when is released. BS can only slow down this process. I agree with many arguments by Endoria but puter also have good point.
Game needs both - noobs prefering zerg and less buttons and power players, complexity was keep added into game because it was keeping powerplayers in. I was one of them. But now i dont have much time to play, need log in and go without farming/grinding mobs. But i also enjoy big PvE raids and quests (ToA was fine at release), but now since game is almost dead its obsolete.
So what BS should do first since Ywain is priority (as puter say) ?
First of all - merge that YwainXXXXX s*iet into one server (should be done many years). Lower group size to something like 4-5 players. Add open PvP arena Mordred like (should be easy). Also there should be classic RvR zone, something like - only classic chars can get in, all non classic gear will be stripped while porting etc. In general game needs to be smaller - cut 50% of RvR/PvP zones.
Then after all this changes there is last one that should be considered - wipe (or made new fresh server).
I'm not the one who claimed Ywain is a priority. That was the producer on the offfiial Discord which everyone should be in if you want current information. These forums serve little to no purpose since the last mass exodus.
Here is why:
-TOA is no longer an issue, and actually worthwhile to do. It requires almost no effort, and you can completely knock out most TOA requirements in one single run of the TOA bounty quests at level 50. Characters are a LOT more powerful these days, and most of the old raid dungeons can be duo'd. It's very chill and none of that old Everquest/WOW raid stuff is required.
-While everybody is High RR, it has also never been easier to get a High RR character (from my experience). People who participate in events, which recreate a lot of the old style high number battles, often go from RR0-RR8+ within a week. I've gotten 460k in a single day at one of these events,and there's probably people laughing at how low that is. The gap closes fast.
-I would not want to start completely over again. LGMing all trade skills, having a hoard of plat, and undoing a year's worth of investment just are not appealing. I can get a lot done in a short amount of time in the current setting, and that works for me. DAOC has become very convenient.
I completely respect other's want for such a server, and i would have come back to a classic server first, based on my original bias, if it were available a year ago. I do not want one released though because it may depopulate Ywaine, and that would be bad given that Albion has 25-150 people on most of the time depending on off/peak. I don't want to see Ywaine suffer for the Classic server.
I would rather them focus their efforts on some of the things wrong with the game that would be broken on both a classic and modern server.
The only two items that would get me to consider leaving Ywaine would be a return to the original Old Frontier maps, or if they replaced all the water in NF with lava. Otherwise I would probably just cancel sub if they crashed the population of Ywaine forcing me to leave.