New server launches generate traffic and pop increase. That's been proven multiple times with shards.
How long the pop stays depends on how active the devs are, constant updates and events, good class and realm balance, casual friendly, etc.
100% garanteed that a new server would have more pop at launch than Ywain has right now. Not even debatable. How long that increased pop keeps playing, that's up to BS to manage the server correctly.
What makes you guys think BS cares what you want? I mean what reason is there for you to believe that they’re gonna see that 13 people want this and 7 people want that and so on and say “okay we’ll go with the 13 votes”? New server probably won’t even come. The only reason they MAY even be working on a server is because the freeshards decimated live and its their own fault. BS was saying they were working on this fresh start/new server years before the bird came along and it turned out there was a large population in hiding that was interested. They had their chance and they blew it. I’m sorry to sound salty/toxic but I just believe we’re all being bs’d by bs.
We all know what happens when a company has a monopoly... we have to like it or leave it. But when another company is doing something similar, it generates competition, which forces both companies to have to constantly re-evaluate their business plans in order to stay in business. Maybe finally, the powers-that-be here are beginning to realize that they are missing out on a huge cut of revenue by continuing to put out a product that most people do not want to mess with anymore. So this competition is healthy. It is causing ripple effects here to the degree that some additional products (server) is going to be brought back online. This will also put pressure on the freeshards community in a serious way if they want to have a reason to keep their doors open.
Anyhow, I believe that both Live and the freeshards can co-exist with this kind of competition, and it will be mutually beneficial to both communities. There are going to be some that want the absolute guarantee of professional responses when queried, along with the polished product they are playing on. There are others who don't mind (or don't have the money to pay) playing on something that is free, and may not be so polished, and with delayed response times from staff. But there will also be many cross overs from one side to the other if both were putting out similar products.
This type of relationship exists with other games (WoW, COH, etc), and it is very possible that it can exist in the DAOC universe as well.
I've alluded to this point before, and I'll say it again now. What has DAOC live got to lose by putting out a Classic server at this point? Nothing, there will be gains in subscriptions (which is where they make a good chunk of their revenue from), and those subscriptions will bleed over into checking out Ywain. So what's the problem here again?
"And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
At this point I think their only chance at survival would be to make a new server. But I’ll believe it when I see it. LordGriffon you are right in all that was said though.
What makes you guys think BS cares what you want? I mean what reason is there for you to believe that they’re gonna see that 13 people want this and 7 people want that and so on and say “okay we’ll go with the 13 votes”? New server probably won’t even come. The only reason they MAY even be working on a server is because the freeshards decimated live and its their own fault. BS was saying they were working on this fresh start/new server years before the bird came along and it turned out there was a large population in hiding that was interested. They had their chance and they blew it. I’m sorry to sound salty/toxic but I just believe we’re all being bs’d by bs.
I decided to make this investigation because I am interested in in hearing what others would like on a DAoC server, see if there are more that would like something similar to what I want. Having been able to read others ideas for a DAoC server has also given me some more things to think about and find possible small changes that hopefully would solve issues that was regarded as problems back in the early 2000s.
I do not know or demand that Broadsword will take the resluts from this investigation into account in their plans for the future, but I see no harm in it being available to them.
Discourage grouped stealthers, call it "Safety in numbers" grouped stealthers have vastly reduced ability when grouped with other stealthers.
Remove TOA completely but have the expansion zones available but repurposed with different items and raid potential.
Regarding stealthers I think the ability to see eachother, when in stealth, for vast distances when grouped should be removed, back to the way it was when the game was released.
Regarding ToA I have thought about that as well:
1. Remove ML-abilities, instead grant a character which completed:
ML 1 with a mythyrian that gives +2 all stats, +2 all stat caps and +1 all ToA stats
ML 2 with a mythyrian that gives +5 all stats, +5 all stat caps and +2 all ToA stats
ML 3 with a mythyrian that gives +7 all stats, +7 all stat caps and +3 all ToA stats
....
ML 10 with a mythyrian that gives +26 all stats, +26 all stat caps and +10 all ToA stats
Make the mythyrian usuable only in ToA zones.
2. Remake the drop table and quest rewards to comply with classic and SI drop table utility. New uses, that is not way to strong, can be implemented.
3. Remove Artifacts all together, the artifact encounters can drop normal items or be made into quest encounters.
Hi, first post here. (Not active, but I guess I can post here now.)
I played from original launch thru Catacombs. I tried coming back in 2017 for kicks, but quickly left b/c it didn't feel like DAOC. I did find another way to play classic DAOC, and have stuck it out there from 2017-present, with some breaks.
I'm fairly convinced that no new server will truly capture the classic vibe. It was literally impossible to switch realms on the same server back in the day (unless you delete ofc.) That added so much to the game. Your realm was full of your friends. Everybody else was a red name on the screen that you had no idea who they were, just that they should die!
Back in the day, realms fought as realms. Maybe each server had a salty guild that wanted to fight only as 8....but what were they going to do if you help them in battle? Rant about you on VN? Not invite you to their guild? (Wasn't going to happen anyway!)
Now it's all just cross-realm chit chat....everybody knows everybody's discord....people stream...people switch realms daily to try and make the most RP with tasks or keep takes or whatever. People won't fight their friends, people won't group with people...groups of friends that donate RP to each other in various forms wind up transcending realm boundaries...and the whole game becomes pointless.
Back in the day....if you kill somebody you're liable to get a /send of "Way to go! That guy is a total jerk! Hope he has fun sitting on the pad for 15m " Now-a-days you get a /send that's "Hey, my friend Trollzerker wants to know what disco you're in...he wants to fight when his RAs are up." =/
Sorry to be doom and gloom. I just see realm switching as a catalyst to so many player behaviors that turn DAoC into some lame Esport game.
With 1 server, you can't realistically make people play 1 realm and pay $15. I guess if they were EC accounts but even then what do they do with the other realms on their account? There's already a realm timer (don't agree with it)
Realm locking when there's only one server is a bad idea since it prevents players from accessing 2/3s of the game. Having a lengthy realm timer would be fine if it's done in a similar way to the unofficial classic server and if the population is healthy (2k+ concurrent PLAYERS). Bot accounts should be discouraged, imo. They add bodies that don't contribute to the MMO experience which we rarely have on Ywain, currently.
The content not available for each realm is available on Ywain though, plus more content. I think it is more important to establish a realm pride on the new server than have all the game content available.
If more than one alternate server is brought up and running there will also be a chance to play another realm on the other server.
Saying that the content can be accessed on Ywain defeats the purpose of a new server then. Realm pride is a silly concept, imo. If this game only included the zerging play style and had more objectives catering to that play style than taking keeps / relics, then it would have some merit. This game survives through it's unique PvP system regardless of play style. Classes are different between each realm and consequently so are group combinations, whether small or full. No need to lock them out. Besides, if multiple accounts are available per player on the new server, then a realm lock will have little effect as it can be easily bypassed.
Let's keep to reality here. Bringing in a classic server will never recapture what made DAoC amazing nearly 20 years ago. It's an old game that hasn't aged well (very buggy). The real difference between Ywain and a classic ruleset will be the number of abilities and complexity of templates. Classic is just simpler and will cater to the less proficient crowd. That's completely fine. But don't expect it to be a whole new experience.
I don't see how having the access for the content not available for one realm on the Ywain server defeats the purpose of the alternate server at all.
Lack of realm pride is one of things that is making Ywain a bad experience for me, not the only reason but a big one.
If someone is prepared to pay for multiple accounts and playing the accounts on different realms that is their choice and it increases Broadswords income. Personally I would play multiple accounts but all on one realm.
I think a classic server will recapture what made DAoC amazing to quite some extent, it is what I am looking for. Realm pride was an important part of that.
All the arguments have been made in the past about realm switching..and all new servers have allowed it. Realm pride lasts for the first 5-6 months, then folks reroll realms, cliques form across realms, and RvR erodes into cross realm RP farming.
People /appealing cross realming (in all its various forms) soaks up a lot of staff time. Staff get frustrated....players not in the cliques get frustrated. In the end, it's perfectly obvious why there was only ONE original server that allowed realm hopping--Gaheris.
Every new server has felt more like Gaheris after a while than any original RvR server. Three realms working together to farm pointless 'realm points' is a good description for the overall vibe on all the unofficial servers that allow realm hopping.
The "compromise" has always been a shorter or longer switch timer, depending on who staff tries to please. This to me was always flawed...it's still harmless to the player, and they just plan their switch and do it. I think an actual compromise would be to have realm switching cost something the player cares about.
Like:
1st switch: 5p on realm xfer from, or 1 week RP lockout xfer to.
2nd switch: 10p or two week RP lockout.
.
.
.
.
.
10th switch: 50p or 10 week RP lockout.
Or, my favorite....want to switch? Delete. The way it was when the game was awesome.
I don't understand realm pride in this day and age when there is one server and you want to limit yourself to 1/3 of the game. Do you think magically a sense of realm pride will come back even if you introduce a 1 side per server restriction? There will be people who play exactly like they do now who might have agreements with groups/People from other realms who's style of play may be completely against what is perceived as realm pride. What happens if all the best players go to one side on this new server and absolutely dominate or that the population is so imbalanced that you get exactly what happens in the game now its better for it to be open to for people to change to stop that happening.
Not being able to just change realm because that realm have control over more relics would be a good thing, force the players on the realm to try and take their relics back to not have that disadvantage instead of just changing sides.
If the alternate server attracts old players to return the need to have the low number of Ywain players start feeling realm pride wont be very important, The returning players will probably have a sense of realm pride and no interest in making agreements, that goes against the code of conduct, with Ywain players.
If all the best players go to one side, highly unlikely, the other sides would have to adapt and pick their game up.
Unbalanced population back in the day often led to the 2 other realms leaving eachother alone and concentrated on attacking the overpopulated realm.
...Classic is just simpler and will cater to the less proficient crowd...
Sorry dude...you're playing a server that's currently pushing vanity pets....hard to take you seriously.
It's a fact. There are less abilities, classes, and template necessities on a classic ruleset. The simplicity requires less management on the players end to compete. Take from that as you will.
In terms of content development, you're correct about the critique. BS is struggling to manage Ywain. It's nonsensical to think another server is going to remedy that issue. Unless the influx of cash will allow them to grow their team sufficiently to keep regular updates on both servers, the new server will suffer from the same management problems that Ywain does.
Regarding your other points on realm pride, how do you enforce it? The unofficial server manages this by literally spying on players machines which I suspect BS may not be able to do. So I'm not sure trying to block players from another realm is the way to go. The only way "realm hopping" really hurts game play is when population sways in favor of one realm for the zerg play style. From that point of view, it would make more sense to address the incentive to jump on the bandwagon than attempting to outright block players from content that they pay for.
Regarding cross realming, that is commonly confused with cross teaming which is allowed. Ideally, this only happens when one realm dominates the other two realms and the lesser two tag team the big guy. However, some players (or cliques as you describe them) may abuse it to grief other players. Is there sufficient instances of player griefing as a result of cross realming to merit blocking players from other realms? I doubt it but only developers have that kind of information.
Regarding players that RP farm each other...that's the kind of the point of playing DAoC. The fights. There is no end-game other than gaining RR through RvR which is really just loose-team based PvP. Capturing keeps/towers/relics are very old objectives that barely impact game play and have become very stale over the years. This is why there are players that focus on 8v8, 4v4, 1v1, etc. Fights. Realm pride has nothing to do with a good fight. Players fighting other players does. No server to date, unofficial included, has re-envisioned RvR on a large scale. That needs to be addressed if you're going to force a realm lock.
I don't understand realm pride in this day and age when there is one server and you want to limit yourself to 1/3 of the game. Do you think magically a sense of realm pride will come back even if you introduce a 1 side per server restriction? There will be people who play exactly like they do now who might have agreements with groups/People from other realms who's style of play may be completely against what is perceived as realm pride. What happens if all the best players go to one side on this new server and absolutely dominate or that the population is so imbalanced that you get exactly what happens in the game now its better for it to be open to for people to change to stop that happening.
There's a difference between a "play-style" and cross-realming. With no easy & legal realm hopping the latter is easier to enforce rules on, and the former becomes a minority of players rather than majority.
One realm dominating argument: simple. A brilliant and subtle part of what Mythic designed....the other two realms find a common enemy and AJ them every chance they get.
Only playing 1/3rd of the "game." It adds weight to the decision of playing what realm. However 95% of the "content" in DAoC was the dynamic chaos in the frontiers, which all three realms contribute to. There's no great loss in missing out on healing a chanter pet, waiting for a spot in av city, or watching your friend aoe frogs in vanern.
I just think people looking for "classic" experience want to relive the days of their youth they have fond memories of, only to realize that it was in a time where 250,000 players played Daoc, compared to the 1-2k we have now.
You could change realms before, just had a different server. I could play all three realms in the same evening if I wanted to back in 2002. Now there is one server, it would be dumb to shut people off 2/3rd of the game because you are a big "for the realm" player. Enjoy being for the realm, probably with incentives to stay on your realm, but don't start trying to dictate the gaming experience of others, you're not my mom.
DAoc is a game, you play it because you enjoy the lore, the pvp/rvr rulesets and abilities. it's only a game, you play it for fun. Stop trying to control other people gaming sessions.
I just think people looking for "classic" experience want to relive the days of their youth they have fond memories of, only to realize that it was in a time where 250,000 players played Daoc, compared to the 1-2k we have now.
Yes, I want to have a gaming experience as close as possible to the gaming experience I had with DAoC almost 20 years ago.
You could change realms before, just had a different server. I could play all three realms in the same evening if I wanted to back in 2002. Now there is one server, it would be dumb to shut people off 2/3rd of the game because you are a big "for the realm" player. Enjoy being for the realm, probably with incentives to stay on your realm, but don't start trying to dictate the gaming experience of others, you're not my mom.
I would not object to 3 classic servers, I just don't find the idea of realm hopping being possible appealing.
I am not trying to dictate your gaming experience any more than you are trying to dictate mine, we are both expressing what we want on the new server.
DAoc is a game, you play it because you enjoy the lore, the pvp/rvr rulesets and abilities. it's only a game, you play it for fun. Stop trying to control other people gaming sessions.
Of course it is a game meant for fun, I am only stating what I believe would make the game most fun from my perspective, I am not trying to control other peoples gaming sessions any more than you are.
I just think people looking for "classic" experience want to relive the days of their youth they have fond memories of, only to realize that it was in a time where 250,000 players played Daoc, compared to the 1-2k we have now.
Yes, I want to have a gaming experience as close as possible to the gaming experience I had with DAoC almost 20 years ago.
That isn't a reasonable expectation. I'd love to be proven incorrect, but I am extremely skeptical that any classic server will bring the same gaming experience we had nearly two decades ago.
I just think people looking for "classic" experience want to relive the days of their youth they have fond memories of, only to realize that it was in a time where 250,000 players played Daoc, compared to the 1-2k we have now.
Yes, I want to have a gaming experience as close as possible to the gaming experience I had with DAoC almost 20 years ago.
That isn't a reasonable expectation. I'd love to be proven incorrect, but I am extremely skeptical that any classic server will bring the same gaming experience we had nearly two decades ago.
Do you have countless hours to reach level 50? What about to do raids? 20 years ago you had a lot more time on your hands to do stuff, unless your life hasn't changed or you're out of work. There were tons of bugs and exploits back in the day and OF really wasn't that great outside of emain. Fact is, times have changed and you won't ever experience what you did 20 years ago.
The cross-realming clique driven RP farming that every attempted classic server devolved into, is absolutely related to legal & easy realm hopping.
I realize picking one realm to play on a server sounds severe in 2021...when gamers are used to getting everything they want.
It's a design decision from the original servers that is basically the lard in grandma's pie crust recipe. We began substituting in more palatable butter, and wonder why the pie isn't as good anymore.
There will never be enough population for a sustained period of time to limit people to 1 realm. It's not 2002 and people are going to want to have options other than being stuck on 1 realm.
There will never be enough population for a sustained period of time to limit people to 1 realm. It's not 2002 and people are going to want to have options other than being stuck on 1 realm.
First of all, I'm sure this company will give you whatever you want, and the BS classic server will join the ranks of cross-realming RP farming servers of the past. Because of course they will. It's 2021 and gamers are needy. (Did you get your mithril for the fire wingz yet!?!?!?!)
Second, many original servers were very playable with avg pop around 300.
Do you have countless hours to reach level 50? What about to do raids? 20 years ago you had a lot more time on your hands to do stuff, unless your life hasn't changed or you're out of work. There were tons of bugs and exploits back in the day and OF really wasn't that great outside of emain. Fact is, times have changed and you won't ever experience what you did 20 years ago.
I would like some QoL implementation, task dungeons to speed up leveling for example.
I worked 20 years ago 8 hours every day apart from weekends, it did take some time to get to level 50 and get a template together but that was not a big deal for me.
Bugs and exploits should of course be fixed.
I liked OF, some changes would be good to those areas though.
I know I won't experience exactly what I experienced 20 years ago, but I would like something that I can enjoy in the same way I enjoyed DAoC back then.
There will never be enough population for a sustained period of time to limit people to 1 realm. It's not 2002 and people are going to want to have options other than being stuck on 1 realm.
But maybe there are people that could enjoy the game only being able to play one realm at the time.
I think the biggest demographic an alternate ruleset server would appeal to is former DAoC players that have left the game for one or another reason.
The new younger gaming community is probably not the correct target group.
@Bonzki there's a server that fits your description already available. However, it barely reaches 100 players total so maybe the original design isn't as popular as you may think it is. It's completely fine that you're okay with a low population. However, Broadsword is running a business and I suspect 100-300 additional players / subs isn't worth the cost to manage another server. If it was, then we would still have at least one of the original Mythic "classic" servers and Mordred.
@Jorma what you're asking for isn't what we had back in the day. I personally would love DAoC 2.0 and forgo a new server altogether but that's a pipe dream.
Forcing other players into one realm isn't the same as refusing to use the option. Like-minded players who want to stick to a single realm can do so regardless if the option to play another realm is there. However, players who want to try other realms cannot choose to do so if they're locked out without bypassing the restriction through some other means. So what is the actual goal behind locking players into a singular realm? Players will still be free to communicate outside the game, setup fights if they desire, share accounts and/or make new accounts to bypass restrictions, etc. I haven't seen a good argument for realm locking so please give me one if it's truly necessary for DAoC to be playable.
to make everyone happy they should just give a 25 percent rp/bp bonus to any account after playing
one realm for 1 week .......maybe 50 percent after 6 months straight..
@Jorma what you're asking for isn't what we had back in the day. I personally would love DAoC 2.0 and forgo a new server altogether but that's a pipe dream.
I am not asking for exactly what we had back in the day. The new server would benefit from some changes.
I would play on a server that is straight copy of the 1.65 patch though, it was a more enjoyable experience than todays game for me.
Forcing other players into one realm isn't the same as refusing to use the option. Like-minded players who want to stick to a single realm can do so regardless if the option to play another realm is there. However, players who want to try other realms cannot choose to do so if they're locked out without bypassing the restriction through some other means. So what is the actual goal behind locking players into a singular realm? Players will still be free to communicate outside the game, setup fights if they desire, share accounts and/or make new accounts to bypass restrictions, etc. I haven't seen a good argument for realm locking so please give me one if it's truly necessary for DAoC to be playable.
The problem with realm hopping is that some, not all, will abandon one realm, if that realm is at a disadvantage (lost both relics for example) to join the realm that have +10-20% melee and/or spell damage. That makes the realm which already have an advantage even stronger. This punishes both other realms and effects everyones gaming experience. Some like how their gaming experience is effected by this, I personally don't like how it effects my gaming experience. That is why I think free realm hopping is a bad idea.
It is ofcourse possible to get access to the other 2 realms PvE zones and classes by having access to several accounts, if someone wants to spend that money good for them and for Broadsword.
There were 2 english language servers in europe and if you wanted to try the third remaining realm you had to delete all your characters on one server and reroll the third realm, I did delete all my Mid chars to try out Alb on Prydwen.
Sharing accounts is as far as I know not allowed. There will be people that ignore that, I know, but at least the amount of playing accounts won't be increased on the realm with the advantage, only different people playing the same account.
Players communicating and setting up fights outside game is not a very big problem in my opinion.
So relics are the reason for players swapping. Remove them or diminish their worth. That's how it is currently on Ywain. There's no incentive to capture relics anymore which is fine with me because it's a dated system.
Casual players realm hop on Ywain primarily to join the realm with a BG since not all three have one every day during prime time. That problem can only be fixed by the community which requires a few dedicated players to step up and lead. However, you can get situations like Rescu where they refuse to let a better leader take the reins and all the lemmings follow suit to slaughter. Consequently, players avoid playing Alb because there's an ineffective leader.
All of this really only affects zerg play which isn't the only play style DAoC supports. If that's what you're interested in, that's fine. I love big fights myself. I also hate zergs that mow down other play styles simply because they don't want to die in a video game. The classic server will never be like any of the original servers. The magic is gone. It'll just be DAoC with fewer buttons, choices, and possibly even fewer players once the nostalgia glasses come off.
So relics are the reason for players swapping. Remove them or diminish their worth. That's how it is currently on Ywain. There's no incentive to capture relics anymore which is fine with me because it's a dated system.
If you read closely you will find that I wrote ...for example.
Lost relics are not the only reason for people realm hopping.
There is a chance relics will have a larger impact on the alternate server than it has on Ywain though.
Casual players realm hop on Ywain primarily to join the realm with a BG since not all three have one every day during prime time. That problem can only be fixed by the community which requires a few dedicated players to step up and lead. However, you can get situations like Rescu where they refuse to let a better leader take the reins and all the lemmings follow suit to slaughter. Consequently, players avoid playing Alb because there's an ineffective leader.
Realm hopping because the zerg is more sucessful on another realm is not something I think will benefit the RvR scene, why not set a system that gives every realm an incentive to form their own sucessful zerg. If a zerg leader is not appriciated by the realm community there is every chance for a new leader to take over, instead of everyone that does not want to be in the old zerg leaders zerg leave for another realms zerg.
All of this really only affects zerg play which isn't the only play style DAoC supports. If that's what you're interested in, that's fine. I love big fights myself. I also hate zergs that mow down other play styles simply because they don't want to die in a video game. The classic server will never be like any of the original servers. The magic is gone. It'll just be DAoC with fewer buttons, choices, and possibly even fewer players once the nostalgia glasses come off.
No, it does effect the whole realms effectivity in RvR.
I am not a big fan of running in a zerg, I rather solo on my NS when my guild/group mates isn't logged in or doesn't have oppurtunity to play in the frontiers.
I don't think the classic server will be exactly like the original servers, I want something that is very different from Ywain and gives me an experience more similar to the gaming experience I got when playing the original server.
If you're solo, then you're ideally fighting other solos. Realm swapping usually benefits the solo scene as players swap to increase their chances to get action. This tends to be true for small man's and 8mans as well. If you're taking the red is dead approach to DAoC, then I assume you're looking for easy RPs instead of good fights. In which case, yes, realm swapping would be detrimental to your play style.
I like random encounters instead of setup fights as well. However, I don't feel the need to add a fight to help my realm mate(s) because they may be losing. That may be the "realm pride" some refer to. The problem is there's another player on the other end. Continually robbing players of good fights is a great way to kill population quickly.
If you're solo, then you're ideally fighting other solos. Realm swapping usually benefits the solo scene as players swap to increase their chances to get action. This tends to be true for small man's and 8mans as well. If you're taking the red is dead approach to DAoC, then I assume you're looking for easy RPs instead of good fights. In which case, yes, realm swapping would be detrimental to your play style.
When I solo I try to get in fights with other solo players and duos if I think I have a decent chance to win that fight, very rarely did I see more than 2 opponents that I thought I would be able to kill by myself.
I usually did not add on fights, only times I did that was when someone who had added on me walked away from a 1 vs. 1 alive, at those instances I did my best to kill him/her before he/she got away and had time to restore hit points.
Realm swapping to find solo fights was not needed back when I used to play but I suppose on a server with very low population it is an option. Hopefully the population on the classic server will be better than on Ywain, I believe it has a good chance to be if the correct ruleset is chosen by Broadsword.
I like random encounters instead of setup fights as well. However, I don't feel the need to add a fight to help my realm mate(s) because they may be losing. That may be the "realm pride" some refer to. The problem is there's another player on the other end. Continually robbing players of good fights is a great way to kill population quickly.
I do not like to add either unless it's on an adder or group of adders, what goes around comes around.
That server with barely 100 people is not a one realm server. Its had a short realm switch timer for years...and it's a great example of a majority of players just cross realm farming RP.
Edit:
Btw, the unofficial server with the highest population has the shortest realm switch timer so I'm not sure that's a good argument for an official classic server.
Nope...it's two days. Still abhorrently long to a Ywainer I'm sure. Still, many people raid the same keeps for RP a few times a week, with different realms leading the raids. The other server is very short, and their successful numbers are hinged on free RPs for everybody....such that afk'ing in the frontiers is a regular play style. How fun!
Anyway puter, sounds like you prefer the modern Esport version of DAoC anyway. Only even fights, small clique of players to farm RP with spread across the realms....and of course the constant regurgitation of how a one realm server isn't modern enough. So by all means, enjoy the 3rd version of cross-realm DAoC, in a few years, that I'm sure BS will deliver.
It was dropped to two days after the population tanked mind you. The long timer was a commonly cited issue. I digress though.
DAoC is a very competitive game outside of zerg play. The red is dead mentality is likely what you prefer. Again, that is fine but often leads to players either forming bigger groups / zergs or logging. It's not a very productive play style in terms of longevity. I suspect this wouldn't be an issue if players were rewarded for attempting to fight even if they were steam rolled. A system like this is in place elsewhere and works fairly well at keeping players in-game.
I honestly couldn't care less about how many RPs I earn. All I really care about are fun fights and the more dynamic they are the better, imo. Maybe Broadsword should introduce two classic servers: one for roleplaying that forces players to a singular realm and the other a normal ruleset with a variable realm timer that adjusts based on the active population. My bet is the latter server will outperform the former, but I also don't view DAoC through rose-tinted glasses either.
Time is fleeting. Enjoy the moment. Progress in a video game should not be a defining achievement.
Maybe Broadsword should introduce two classic servers: one for roleplaying that forces players to a singular realm and the other a normal ruleset with a variable realm timer that adjusts based on the active population. My bet is the latter server will outperform the former, but I also don't view DAoC through rose-tinted glasses either.
Time is fleeting. Enjoy the moment. Progress in a video game should not be a defining achievement.
The absolute best thing that could happen is a successful alternate server that creates a demand for more servers with that ruleset. There is a lot of things that have to go right for this to happen, one should not count on it happening of course.
With three such servers everyone could play all three realms. When population no longer supports three servers, will happen at some point, remove one server and give the players a choice on which of their realm should be deleted, same process again when population only supports one server.
I don't think this will happen, I would be very glad if it did though.
Forcing other players into one realm isn't the same as refusing to use the option. Like-minded players who want to stick to a single realm can do so regardless if the option to play another realm is there. However, players who want to try other realms cannot choose to do so if they're locked out without bypassing the restriction through some other means. So what is the actual goal behind locking players into a singular realm? Players will still be free to communicate outside the game, setup fights if they desire, share accounts and/or make new accounts to bypass restrictions, etc. I haven't seen a good argument for realm locking so please give me one if it's truly necessary for DAoC to be playable.
The problem with realm hopping is that some, not all, will abandon one realm, if that realm is at a disadvantage (lost both relics for example) to join the realm that have +10-20% melee and/or spell damage. That makes the realm which already have an advantage even stronger. This punishes both other realms and effects everyones gaming experience. Some like how their gaming experience is effected by this, I personally don't like how it effects my gaming experience. That is why I think free realm hopping is a bad idea.
It is ofcourse possible to get access to the other 2 realms PvE zones and classes by having access to several accounts, if someone wants to spend that money good for them and for Broadsword.
There were 2 english language servers in europe and if you wanted to try the third remaining realm you had to delete all your characters on one server and reroll the third realm, I did delete all my Mid chars to try out Alb on Prydwen.
Sharing accounts is as far as I know not allowed. There will be people that ignore that, I know, but at least the amount of playing accounts won't be increased on the realm with the advantage, only different people playing the same account.
Players communicating and setting up fights outside game is not a very big problem in my opinion.
So relics are the reason for players swapping. Remove them or diminish their worth. That's how it is currently on Ywain. There's no incentive to capture relics anymore which is fine with me because it's a dated system.
If you read closely you will find that I wrote ...for example.
Lost relics are not the only reason for people realm hopping.
There is a chance relics will have a larger impact on the alternate server than it has on Ywain though.
Casual players realm hop on Ywain primarily to join the realm with a BG since not all three have one every day during prime time. That problem can only be fixed by the community which requires a few dedicated players to step up and lead. However, you can get situations like Rescu where they refuse to let a better leader take the reins and all the lemmings follow suit to slaughter. Consequently, players avoid playing Alb because there's an ineffective leader.
Realm hopping because the zerg is more sucessful on another realm is not something I think will benefit the RvR scene, why not set a system that gives every realm an incentive to form their own sucessful zerg. If a zerg leader is not appriciated by the realm community there is every chance for a new leader to take over, instead of everyone that does not want to be in the old zerg leaders zerg leave for another realms zerg.
All of this really only affects zerg play which isn't the only play style DAoC supports. If that's what you're interested in, that's fine. I love big fights myself. I also hate zergs that mow down other play styles simply because they don't want to die in a video game. The classic server will never be like any of the original servers. The magic is gone. It'll just be DAoC with fewer buttons, choices, and possibly even fewer players once the nostalgia glasses come off.
No, it does effect the whole realms effectivity in RvR.
I am not a big fan of running in a zerg, I rather solo on my NS when my guild/group mates isn't logged in or doesn't have oppurtunity to play in the frontiers.
I don't think the classic server will be exactly like the original servers, I want something that is very different from Ywain and gives me an experience more similar to the gaming experience I got when playing the original server.
Comments
How long the pop stays depends on how active the devs are, constant updates and events, good class and realm balance, casual friendly, etc.
100% garanteed that a new server would have more pop at launch than Ywain has right now. Not even debatable. How long that increased pop keeps playing, that's up to BS to manage the server correctly.
Anyhow, I believe that both Live and the freeshards can co-exist with this kind of competition, and it will be mutually beneficial to both communities. There are going to be some that want the absolute guarantee of professional responses when queried, along with the polished product they are playing on. There are others who don't mind (or don't have the money to pay) playing on something that is free, and may not be so polished, and with delayed response times from staff. But there will also be many cross overs from one side to the other if both were putting out similar products.
This type of relationship exists with other games (WoW, COH, etc), and it is very possible that it can exist in the DAOC universe as well.
I've alluded to this point before, and I'll say it again now. What has DAOC live got to lose by putting out a Classic server at this point? Nothing, there will be gains in subscriptions (which is where they make a good chunk of their revenue from), and those subscriptions will bleed over into checking out Ywain. So what's the problem here again?
I decided to make this investigation because I am interested in in hearing what others would like on a DAoC server, see if there are more that would like something similar to what I want. Having been able to read others ideas for a DAoC server has also given me some more things to think about and find possible small changes that hopefully would solve issues that was regarded as problems back in the early 2000s.
I do not know or demand that Broadsword will take the resluts from this investigation into account in their plans for the future, but I see no harm in it being available to them.
Remove TOA completely but have the expansion zones available but repurposed with different items and raid potential.
Regarding stealthers I think the ability to see eachother, when in stealth, for vast distances when grouped should be removed, back to the way it was when the game was released.
Regarding ToA I have thought about that as well:
1. Remove ML-abilities, instead grant a character which completed:
ML 1 with a mythyrian that gives +2 all stats, +2 all stat caps and +1 all ToA stats
ML 2 with a mythyrian that gives +5 all stats, +5 all stat caps and +2 all ToA stats
ML 3 with a mythyrian that gives +7 all stats, +7 all stat caps and +3 all ToA stats
....
ML 10 with a mythyrian that gives +26 all stats, +26 all stat caps and +10 all ToA stats
Make the mythyrian usuable only in ToA zones.
2. Remake the drop table and quest rewards to comply with classic and SI drop table utility. New uses, that is not way to strong, can be implemented.
3. Remove Artifacts all together, the artifact encounters can drop normal items or be made into quest encounters.
I played from original launch thru Catacombs. I tried coming back in 2017 for kicks, but quickly left b/c it didn't feel like DAOC. I did find another way to play classic DAOC, and have stuck it out there from 2017-present, with some breaks.
I'm fairly convinced that no new server will truly capture the classic vibe. It was literally impossible to switch realms on the same server back in the day (unless you delete ofc.) That added so much to the game. Your realm was full of your friends. Everybody else was a red name on the screen that you had no idea who they were, just that they should die!
Back in the day, realms fought as realms. Maybe each server had a salty guild that wanted to fight only as 8....but what were they going to do if you help them in battle? Rant about you on VN? Not invite you to their guild? (Wasn't going to happen anyway!)
Now it's all just cross-realm chit chat....everybody knows everybody's discord....people stream...people switch realms daily to try and make the most RP with tasks or keep takes or whatever. People won't fight their friends, people won't group with people...groups of friends that donate RP to each other in various forms wind up transcending realm boundaries...and the whole game becomes pointless.
Back in the day....if you kill somebody you're liable to get a /send of "Way to go! That guy is a total jerk! Hope he has fun sitting on the pad for 15m
Sorry to be doom and gloom. I just see realm switching as a catalyst to so many player behaviors that turn DAoC into some lame Esport game.
For Ywain I understand why it is not possible to make it one realm/account.
If more than one alternate server is brought up and running there will also be a chance to play another realm on the other server.
Let's keep to reality here. Bringing in a classic server will never recapture what made DAoC amazing nearly 20 years ago. It's an old game that hasn't aged well (very buggy). The real difference between Ywain and a classic ruleset will be the number of abilities and complexity of templates. Classic is just simpler and will cater to the less proficient crowd. That's completely fine. But don't expect it to be a whole new experience.
Lack of realm pride is one of things that is making Ywain a bad experience for me, not the only reason but a big one.
If someone is prepared to pay for multiple accounts and playing the accounts on different realms that is their choice and it increases Broadswords income. Personally I would play multiple accounts but all on one realm.
I think a classic server will recapture what made DAoC amazing to quite some extent, it is what I am looking for. Realm pride was an important part of that.
I am not looking for a whole new experience :-)
People /appealing cross realming (in all its various forms) soaks up a lot of staff time. Staff get frustrated....players not in the cliques get frustrated. In the end, it's perfectly obvious why there was only ONE original server that allowed realm hopping--Gaheris.
Every new server has felt more like Gaheris after a while than any original RvR server. Three realms working together to farm pointless 'realm points' is a good description for the overall vibe on all the unofficial servers that allow realm hopping.
The "compromise" has always been a shorter or longer switch timer, depending on who staff tries to please. This to me was always flawed...it's still harmless to the player, and they just plan their switch and do it. I think an actual compromise would be to have realm switching cost something the player cares about.
Like:
1st switch: 5p on realm xfer from, or 1 week RP lockout xfer to.
2nd switch: 10p or two week RP lockout.
.
.
.
.
.
10th switch: 50p or 10 week RP lockout.
Or, my favorite....want to switch? Delete. The way it was when the game was awesome.
Sorry dude...you're playing a server that's currently pushing vanity pets....hard to take you seriously.
I agree with this, want to switch realms, delete all your characters and reroll on another realm.
If the alternate server attracts old players to return the need to have the low number of Ywain players start feeling realm pride wont be very important, The returning players will probably have a sense of realm pride and no interest in making agreements, that goes against the code of conduct, with Ywain players.
If all the best players go to one side, highly unlikely, the other sides would have to adapt and pick their game up.
Unbalanced population back in the day often led to the 2 other realms leaving eachother alone and concentrated on attacking the overpopulated realm.
It's a fact. There are less abilities, classes, and template necessities on a classic ruleset. The simplicity requires less management on the players end to compete. Take from that as you will.
In terms of content development, you're correct about the critique. BS is struggling to manage Ywain. It's nonsensical to think another server is going to remedy that issue. Unless the influx of cash will allow them to grow their team sufficiently to keep regular updates on both servers, the new server will suffer from the same management problems that Ywain does.
Regarding your other points on realm pride, how do you enforce it? The unofficial server manages this by literally spying on players machines which I suspect BS may not be able to do. So I'm not sure trying to block players from another realm is the way to go. The only way "realm hopping" really hurts game play is when population sways in favor of one realm for the zerg play style. From that point of view, it would make more sense to address the incentive to jump on the bandwagon than attempting to outright block players from content that they pay for.
Regarding cross realming, that is commonly confused with cross teaming which is allowed. Ideally, this only happens when one realm dominates the other two realms and the lesser two tag team the big guy. However, some players (or cliques as you describe them) may abuse it to grief other players. Is there sufficient instances of player griefing as a result of cross realming to merit blocking players from other realms? I doubt it but only developers have that kind of information.
Regarding players that RP farm each other...that's the kind of the point of playing DAoC. The fights. There is no end-game other than gaining RR through RvR which is really just loose-team based PvP. Capturing keeps/towers/relics are very old objectives that barely impact game play and have become very stale over the years. This is why there are players that focus on 8v8, 4v4, 1v1, etc. Fights. Realm pride has nothing to do with a good fight. Players fighting other players does. No server to date, unofficial included, has re-envisioned RvR on a large scale. That needs to be addressed if you're going to force a realm lock.
There's a difference between a "play-style" and cross-realming. With no easy & legal realm hopping the latter is easier to enforce rules on, and the former becomes a minority of players rather than majority.
One realm dominating argument: simple. A brilliant and subtle part of what Mythic designed....the other two realms find a common enemy and AJ them every chance they get.
Only playing 1/3rd of the "game." It adds weight to the decision of playing what realm. However 95% of the "content" in DAoC was the dynamic chaos in the frontiers, which all three realms contribute to. There's no great loss in missing out on healing a chanter pet, waiting for a spot in av city, or watching your friend aoe frogs in vanern.
You could change realms before, just had a different server. I could play all three realms in the same evening if I wanted to back in 2002. Now there is one server, it would be dumb to shut people off 2/3rd of the game because you are a big "for the realm" player. Enjoy being for the realm, probably with incentives to stay on your realm, but don't start trying to dictate the gaming experience of others, you're not my mom.
DAoc is a game, you play it because you enjoy the lore, the pvp/rvr rulesets and abilities. it's only a game, you play it for fun. Stop trying to control other people gaming sessions.
I would not object to 3 classic servers, I just don't find the idea of realm hopping being possible appealing.
I am not trying to dictate your gaming experience any more than you are trying to dictate mine, we are both expressing what we want on the new server.
Of course it is a game meant for fun, I am only stating what I believe would make the game most fun from my perspective, I am not trying to control other peoples gaming sessions any more than you are.
That isn't a reasonable expectation. I'd love to be proven incorrect, but I am extremely skeptical that any classic server will bring the same gaming experience we had nearly two decades ago.
...as close as possible...
I realize picking one realm to play on a server sounds severe in 2021...when gamers are used to getting everything they want.
It's a design decision from the original servers that is basically the lard in grandma's pie crust recipe. We began substituting in more palatable butter, and wonder why the pie isn't as good anymore.
First of all, I'm sure this company will give you whatever you want, and the BS classic server will join the ranks of cross-realming RP farming servers of the past. Because of course they will. It's 2021 and gamers are needy. (Did you get your mithril for the fire wingz yet!?!?!?!)
Second, many original servers were very playable with avg pop around 300.
I would like some QoL implementation, task dungeons to speed up leveling for example.
I worked 20 years ago 8 hours every day apart from weekends, it did take some time to get to level 50 and get a template together but that was not a big deal for me.
Bugs and exploits should of course be fixed.
I liked OF, some changes would be good to those areas though.
I know I won't experience exactly what I experienced 20 years ago, but I would like something that I can enjoy in the same way I enjoyed DAoC back then.
But maybe there are people that could enjoy the game only being able to play one realm at the time.
I think the biggest demographic an alternate ruleset server would appeal to is former DAoC players that have left the game for one or another reason.
The new younger gaming community is probably not the correct target group.
@Jorma what you're asking for isn't what we had back in the day. I personally would love DAoC 2.0 and forgo a new server altogether but that's a pipe dream.
Forcing other players into one realm isn't the same as refusing to use the option. Like-minded players who want to stick to a single realm can do so regardless if the option to play another realm is there. However, players who want to try other realms cannot choose to do so if they're locked out without bypassing the restriction through some other means. So what is the actual goal behind locking players into a singular realm? Players will still be free to communicate outside the game, setup fights if they desire, share accounts and/or make new accounts to bypass restrictions, etc. I haven't seen a good argument for realm locking so please give me one if it's truly necessary for DAoC to be playable.
one realm for 1 week .......maybe 50 percent after 6 months straight..
I am not asking for exactly what we had back in the day. The new server would benefit from some changes.
I would play on a server that is straight copy of the 1.65 patch though, it was a more enjoyable experience than todays game for me.
The problem with realm hopping is that some, not all, will abandon one realm, if that realm is at a disadvantage (lost both relics for example) to join the realm that have +10-20% melee and/or spell damage. That makes the realm which already have an advantage even stronger. This punishes both other realms and effects everyones gaming experience. Some like how their gaming experience is effected by this, I personally don't like how it effects my gaming experience. That is why I think free realm hopping is a bad idea.
It is ofcourse possible to get access to the other 2 realms PvE zones and classes by having access to several accounts, if someone wants to spend that money good for them and for Broadsword.
There were 2 english language servers in europe and if you wanted to try the third remaining realm you had to delete all your characters on one server and reroll the third realm, I did delete all my Mid chars to try out Alb on Prydwen.
Sharing accounts is as far as I know not allowed. There will be people that ignore that, I know, but at least the amount of playing accounts won't be increased on the realm with the advantage, only different people playing the same account.
Players communicating and setting up fights outside game is not a very big problem in my opinion.
Casual players realm hop on Ywain primarily to join the realm with a BG since not all three have one every day during prime time. That problem can only be fixed by the community which requires a few dedicated players to step up and lead. However, you can get situations like Rescu where they refuse to let a better leader take the reins and all the lemmings follow suit to slaughter. Consequently, players avoid playing Alb because there's an ineffective leader.
All of this really only affects zerg play which isn't the only play style DAoC supports. If that's what you're interested in, that's fine. I love big fights myself. I also hate zergs that mow down other play styles simply because they don't want to die in a video game. The classic server will never be like any of the original servers. The magic is gone. It'll just be DAoC with fewer buttons, choices, and possibly even fewer players once the nostalgia glasses come off.
Lost relics are not the only reason for people realm hopping.
There is a chance relics will have a larger impact on the alternate server than it has on Ywain though.
Realm hopping because the zerg is more sucessful on another realm is not something I think will benefit the RvR scene, why not set a system that gives every realm an incentive to form their own sucessful zerg. If a zerg leader is not appriciated by the realm community there is every chance for a new leader to take over, instead of everyone that does not want to be in the old zerg leaders zerg leave for another realms zerg.
No, it does effect the whole realms effectivity in RvR.
I am not a big fan of running in a zerg, I rather solo on my NS when my guild/group mates isn't logged in or doesn't have oppurtunity to play in the frontiers.
I don't think the classic server will be exactly like the original servers, I want something that is very different from Ywain and gives me an experience more similar to the gaming experience I got when playing the original server.
I like random encounters instead of setup fights as well. However, I don't feel the need to add a fight to help my realm mate(s) because they may be losing. That may be the "realm pride" some refer to. The problem is there's another player on the other end. Continually robbing players of good fights is a great way to kill population quickly.
I usually did not add on fights, only times I did that was when someone who had added on me walked away from a 1 vs. 1 alive, at those instances I did my best to kill him/her before he/she got away and had time to restore hit points.
Realm swapping to find solo fights was not needed back when I used to play but I suppose on a server with very low population it is an option. Hopefully the population on the classic server will be better than on Ywain, I believe it has a good chance to be if the correct ruleset is chosen by Broadsword.
I do not like to add either unless it's on an adder or group of adders, what goes around comes around.
That server with barely 100 people is not a one realm server. Its had a short realm switch timer for years...and it's a great example of a majority of players just cross realm farming RP.
Edit:
Btw, the unofficial server with the highest population has the shortest realm switch timer so I'm not sure that's a good argument for an official classic server.
Anyway puter, sounds like you prefer the modern Esport version of DAoC anyway. Only even fights, small clique of players to farm RP with spread across the realms....and of course the constant regurgitation of how a one realm server isn't modern enough. So by all means, enjoy the 3rd version of cross-realm DAoC, in a few years, that I'm sure BS will deliver.
DAoC is a very competitive game outside of zerg play. The red is dead mentality is likely what you prefer. Again, that is fine but often leads to players either forming bigger groups / zergs or logging. It's not a very productive play style in terms of longevity. I suspect this wouldn't be an issue if players were rewarded for attempting to fight even if they were steam rolled. A system like this is in place elsewhere and works fairly well at keeping players in-game.
I honestly couldn't care less about how many RPs I earn. All I really care about are fun fights and the more dynamic they are the better, imo. Maybe Broadsword should introduce two classic servers: one for roleplaying that forces players to a singular realm and the other a normal ruleset with a variable realm timer that adjusts based on the active population. My bet is the latter server will outperform the former, but I also don't view DAoC through rose-tinted glasses either.
Time is fleeting. Enjoy the moment. Progress in a video game should not be a defining achievement.
With three such servers everyone could play all three realms. When population no longer supports three servers, will happen at some point, remove one server and give the players a choice on which of their realm should be deleted, same process again when population only supports one server.
I don't think this will happen, I would be very glad if it did though.
I have written what I think is the problem with realm hopping. We, you and I, had a discussion regarding that just 2 days ago, in this thread: