Realm Pride Bonus - Possibility for 1.125

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

I would be interested in polling the active community to the prospect of instituting a realm pride bonus within patch 1.125. Sporadically throughout the threads (on PC and the Official Forums) this idea has arisen and continues to arise; I'd like to dedicate a thread towards it. Population changes and imbalances have been a recurrent issue. The underpopulated realm bonus was implemented to help alleviate it; however, does little to actually affect fluctuating population.

There is no guarantee that a realm pride bonus would have any significant effect on stabilizing population across the realms; however, it would give an incentive for dedicated realm players to actively participate in realm offense and defense in comparison to the underpopulated bonus.

From my personal experience in RvR participation the underpopulated bonus does little more than two things:
1. Inform the realms of their current population status (for the next 15 or so minutes until it updates)
2. Indirectly sway the flow of action.

To elaborate on point 2. If a BG is formed in one of the three realms, and they sit at a 25/35/45% underpopulated bonus, what message is that telling the BG? Depending on the person they will interpret it as "...Hey, we have an opportunity to earn some pretty good realm points seeing as we have a BG and we're outnumbered..." or "...Man, how many players must the enemy BG have if we're sitting at this high of an underpopulated bonus?? There's very little we can possibly do.."

These indirect messages that are conveyed by the underpopulated realm bonus is the primary reason I disagree with it. If, for instance, a graduated realm pride buff was established instead, the majority of active players within their respected realms would have less of a concern of where their realm sits during the next underpopulated realm update and would therefore be more involved in active NF participation as regardless of their realms current population, they may be sitting at a 50% rp/bp/coin/xp bonus through realm loyalty.

Notice: This is a representation of my personal opinion. Some may agree, Some may disagree. Please share your thoughts and opinions regarding this topic.

Sleepwell · November 2018

I voted yes, but only if it co-incides with some sort of penalty for hoping realms to join the larger zerg. The realm pride bonus is a great idea, but we've discussed this many times. Even at a 80-90% bonus, most will choose to stay on or hop to the overpopulated realm to win by sheer numbers alone.

So how about a realm pride buff if you actively play said realm for the allotted amount of time to co-incide with a realm buff penalty for switching realms on the fly (lets say 30 mins of realm penalty where you receive zero rps). That would alleviate some of the abuse. Its sketchy i know, but the penalty would not affect pve content, experience.

Vrisslar · November 2018

Personally i dont like this, i have chars and accounts from US and EU, i have chars from multiple realms, multiple servers i made many years before everything got turned in to 1 server, i have friends on the realms, i have chars i enjoy and have played since 2001.

Other then that i really doubt a realm pride bonus would do anything, cause fighting for a realm with 50% bonus where you cant kill anything or compete dosnt really help much when you get run over, people would switch realm anyway would be my guess, go PvE or log.

Somehow i also doubt people switch realms because of RP / BP / XP /whatever, i think they switch because they dont like to lose but want to win, even if that brings less RP, why else would zergs put up with camping keeps / EV CK to avoid a loss.

Personally i never switched realm to join the zerg, but i have however many times switched realm to fight the zerg, a realm pride bonus would then punish me for helping the underdog.

Carol_Broadsword · November 2018

I love this topic and please regardless of my next line do keep it going because it is a topic worthy of discussion. Unfortunately though, its not planned for 1.125.

Vrisslar · November 2018

How about strengthening keep walls / gates, increase oil, siege, guard damage on the lower populated realms and let the keeps sapwn more guards that retire when population balances out, maybe let dead guards respawn faster too ?
On top of this maybe weaken the walls and gates of overpopulated realm ? Just to toss something out there and not just shoot down ideas, sorry.
Basicly let it all flow with population bonus as it updates.

Sleepwell · November 2018

@Vrisslar all decent ideas

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

Sleepwell wrote: »

I voted yes, but only if it co-incides with some sort of penalty for hoping realms to join the larger zerg. The realm pride bonus is a great idea, but we've discussed this many times. Even at a 80-90% bonus, most will choose to stay on or hop to the overpopulated realm to win by sheer numbers alone.

So how about a realm pride buff if you actively play said realm for the allotted amount of time to co-incide with a realm buff penalty for switching realms on the fly (lets say 30 mins of realm penalty where you receive zero rps). That would alleviate some of the abuse. Its sketchy i know, but the penalty would not affect pve content, experience.

I understand your point and it is something I've considered as well. Unfortunately, I can't foresee a method to penalize players from changing realms. As @Vrisslar has stated, there are multiple reasons a player may choose to change realms. There must be a plausible method to reward those who remain "loyal" to a realm while also having a neutral effect to those that change occasionally.

One idea to utilize this buff or bonus I've considered would be through "active combat". This could be a pulse like effect that is activated on any player upon entering combat with an enemy. Upon disengaging from combat and allowing the pulse to fade the player receives a bonus reward of coin/rp/xp/bp's scaling at the percentage of realm loyalty they are currently at for all rewards earned through combat during the activation of the pulse.

This method would have no effect on players choosing to change realms as it would scale to 0% until that toon has met the requirements to begin building realm loyalty. (bugganes/lone wolf/battlefield potions would not be effected by the pulse).

This method would be specific to individual toons and the realm points they earn and would therefore be beneficial in all forms of play (solo/small man/group/zerg) and, through being individually focused, would have no negative effects on players forming groups or roaming with players at a 0% loyalty.

The only downside I can currently see would be keep siege battles for toons that generally don't play much of a roll in the overall siege. Therefore, any structure under siege would have to proc a "siege combat" pulse for all toons in the siege radius and would stay active until siege flames expire and the subsequent reward tics. If there is any combat that occurs during siege among players, this would coincide with the "active combat" pulse and be unrelated to the "siege combat" pulse (which would co-exist with one another) that would function in the same manner. Upon successful defense and/or capture the coinciding 'tic' bonus would be scaled at the individual players loyalty bonus percentage.

This would also keep bugganes/lone wolf/battlefield potions beneficial as players who change realm and/or have not built loyalty will still utilize these buffs to earn additional rps/coin/bps etc.

Keltorius · November 2018

As I play Hibernia, I voted yes. Also, agree that there should be a penalty when realm hopping. When I do occasionally play the other realms it is in the battlegrounds.

RonELuvv · November 2018

These are great ideas but it is a very tough situation to deal with. On one hand you want to discourage players from hopping to the realm with the biggest zerg, but on the other hand you don't want to screw people that are switching realms for legit reasons.

Ylazul · November 2018

Ticking % bonuses while actively playing would be a simple change that might have the desired effect. Perhaps RvR "campaigns" or "seasons" that elapse for a set time period (2 weeks?) in which a lump-sum campaign bonus in the form of currency or items or RPs is awarded to the account for not switching.

Sleepwell · November 2018

I'd have to change my vote then.

@Vrisslar is correct. A realm pride bonus by iteself isnt enough to keep people from jumping ship. Not overall. I've seen nights when Hib (i play US EST) has a 85-100% bonus. The numbers dont change much. I have friends who play hib stealth and they absolutely love it then. But the zerg isnt going to flip due to that. Vrisslar was correct. The fear or hatred of loss is so great, that people would prefer to make 10k a night with zero death vs 200k a night with 40 deaths. I'm not in the majority there, but thats just it.. .the majority "is" the majority

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

RonELuvv wrote: »

These are great ideas but it is a very tough situation to deal with. On one hand you want to discourage players from hopping to the realm with the biggest zerg, but on the other hand you don't want to screw people that are switching realms for legit reasons.

That's one of the biggest issues. I think of it as, what would possibly motivate me to stay on my character against superior numbers and potentially multiple deaths. What could be done to keep one from sighing in frustration and resorting to either logging or switching realms.

The idea I proposed is great in regards to the realm loyalty I'd like to see added some day; however, how would it (and should it) benefit someone who, for example, attempts to defend a keep from a superior force, who isn't able to gain a single kill, and who ends up dying with relatively nothing to show for it. This scenario I've encountered myself and it's very frustrating. Very few people want to spend time for no compensation. How could realm loyalty be adapted to benefit people into doing what they otherwise would have zero desire to do now?

The main goal is to keep people entertained, rewarded and PLAYING.

For that reason I like what @Ylazul mentioned. It's something that can be worked towards over a set period of time that may not rely so heavily on rps earned, deathblows, kills, irs, but have more to do with time played, time spent under "active combat" or "siege combat", tier of realm loyalty your toon sits at. These are ways to incorporate alternative ideas into a system that could benefit all forms of play style and have no to little effect on those who change realms (although it would definitely motivate them to potentially favoring one of the three over time).

RonELuvv · November 2018

Sleepwell wrote: »

I'd have to change my vote then.

@Vrisslar is correct. A realm pride bonus by iteself isnt enough to keep people from jumping ship. Not overall. I've seen nights when Hib (i play US EST) has a 85-100% bonus. The numbers dont change much. I have friends who play hib stealth and they absolutely love it then. But the zerg isnt going to flip due to that. Vrisslar was correct. The fear or hatred of loss is so great, that people would prefer to make 10k a night with zero death vs 200k a night with 40 deaths. I'm not in the majority there, but thats just it.. .the majority "is" the majority

Amen to that! The lower the amount of people you run the more important those bonuses are to you. For example, solo/small man will generally hop on whichever realm has the highest bonus. Meanwhile, casuals players that tend to run zerg couldn't care less. They want to go on whichever realm allows them to /release the least amount of times.

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

RonELuvv wrote: »

Sleepwell wrote: »

I'd have to change my vote then.

@Vrisslar is correct. A realm pride bonus by iteself isnt enough to keep people from jumping ship. Not overall. I've seen nights when Hib (i play US EST) has a 85-100% bonus. The numbers dont change much. I have friends who play hib stealth and they absolutely love it then. But the zerg isnt going to flip due to that. Vrisslar was correct. The fear or hatred of loss is so great, that people would prefer to make 10k a night with zero death vs 200k a night with 40 deaths. I'm not in the majority there, but thats just it.. .the majority "is" the majority

Amen to that! The lower the amount of people you run the more important those bonuses are to you. For example, solo/small man will generally hop on whichever realm has the highest bonus. Meanwhile, casuals players that tend to run zerg couldn't care less. They want to go on whichever realm allows them to /release the least amount of times.

I really like the idea of a extended reward system tied to realm loyalty as well. Something similar to (please don't mod this is for educational purposes

) ESO's rewards that are earned following completion of a campaign. The rewards would be tiered to the level of realm loyalty the person has maintained.

Ylazul · November 2018

I learn toward a campaign that lasts a few weeks or more as imo it could help keep the population from bouncing around too much. Establish a steadier baseline over a longer period of time. The NF population bonuses are helpful but they could use some supplementation.

Maybe there could be a limited number of slots and players could commit themselves to a lock for a period of time, with guaranteed rewards.

Armarnidi · November 2018

Amp_Phetamine wrote: »

I would be interested in polling the active community to the prospect of instituting a realm pride bonus within patch 1.125. Sporadically throughout the threads (on PC and the Official Forums) this idea has arisen and continues to arise; I'd like to dedicate a thread towards it. Population changes and imbalances have been a recurrent issue. The underpopulated realm bonus was implemented to help alleviate it; however, does little to actually affect fluctuating population.

There is no guarantee that a realm pride bonus would have any significant effect on stabilizing population across the realms; however, it would give an incentive for dedicated realm players to actively participate in realm offense and defense in comparison to the underpopulated bonus.

From my personal experience in RvR participation the underpopulated bonus does little more than two things:
1. Inform the realms of their current population status (for the next 15 or so minutes until it updates)
2. Indirectly sway the flow of action.

To elaborate on point 2. If a BG is formed in one of the three realms, and they sit at a 25/35/45% underpopulated bonus, what message is that telling the BG? Depending on the person they will interpret it as "...Hey, we have an opportunity to earn some pretty good realm points seeing as we have a BG and we're outnumbered..." or "...Man, how many players must the enemy BG have if we're sitting at this high of an underpopulated bonus?? There's very little we can possibly do.."

These indirect messages that are conveyed by the underpopulated realm bonus is the primary reason I disagree with it. If, for instance, a graduated realm pride buff was established instead, the majority of active players within their respected realms would have less of a concern of where their realm sits during the next underpopulated realm update and would therefore be more involved in active NF participation as regardless of their realms current population, they may be sitting at a 50% rp/bp/coin/xp bonus through realm loyalty.

Notice: This is a representation of my personal opinion. Some may agree, Some may disagree. Please share your thoughts and opinions regarding this topic.

Solved add a realm timer that actually makes people choose what realm to play for the day

BurkleyRIP · November 2018

Day is a little long and would make the xfer of plat and items from one realm to another nearly impossible without multiple accounts.

Tyrantanic · November 2018

Armarnidi wrote: »

Amp_Phetamine wrote: »

I would be interested in polling the active community to the prospect of instituting a realm pride bonus within patch 1.125. Sporadically throughout the threads (on PC and the Official Forums) this idea has arisen and continues to arise; I'd like to dedicate a thread towards it. Population changes and imbalances have been a recurrent issue. The underpopulated realm bonus was implemented to help alleviate it; however, does little to actually affect fluctuating population.

There is no guarantee that a realm pride bonus would have any significant effect on stabilizing population across the realms; however, it would give an incentive for dedicated realm players to actively participate in realm offense and defense in comparison to the underpopulated bonus.

From my personal experience in RvR participation the underpopulated bonus does little more than two things:
1. Inform the realms of their current population status (for the next 15 or so minutes until it updates)
2. Indirectly sway the flow of action.

To elaborate on point 2. If a BG is formed in one of the three realms, and they sit at a 25/35/45% underpopulated bonus, what message is that telling the BG? Depending on the person they will interpret it as "...Hey, we have an opportunity to earn some pretty good realm points seeing as we have a BG and we're outnumbered..." or "...Man, how many players must the enemy BG have if we're sitting at this high of an underpopulated bonus?? There's very little we can possibly do.."

These indirect messages that are conveyed by the underpopulated realm bonus is the primary reason I disagree with it. If, for instance, a graduated realm pride buff was established instead, the majority of active players within their respected realms would have less of a concern of where their realm sits during the next underpopulated realm update and would therefore be more involved in active NF participation as regardless of their realms current population, they may be sitting at a 50% rp/bp/coin/xp bonus through realm loyalty.

Notice: This is a representation of my personal opinion. Some may agree, Some may disagree. Please share your thoughts and opinions regarding this topic.

Solved add a realm timer that actually makes people choose what realm to play for the day

The population is too low for this to work without pissing off a large customer base. I think the idea to incentivise rather than force playing on a single realm is better.

skeetz · November 2018

BurkleyRIP wrote: »

Day is a little long and would make the xfer of plat and items from one realm to another nearly impossible without multiple accounts.

It would just need to be for a character that earned 1 single rp or more, if you log on and dont get any rps you could switch whenever, meaning timer would have no effect on trading plat /items or anything like that .

Seethyr · November 2018

How about adding a daily quest for 20k rps if you stay active in one realm for a set amount of time in NF. It would be broken by logging off, remaining sedentary (Catterick camping) or not getting a kill or being killed after a set amount of time. I play one realm only, but if I didn’t, this would incentivize me to stay put.

BurkleyRIP · November 2018

Skeetz, good point. That would work. Wish I could quote from my phone lol

Armarnidi · November 2018

Beetleguisse wrote: »

Armarnidi wrote: »

Amp_Phetamine wrote: »

I would be interested in polling the active community to the prospect of instituting a realm pride bonus within patch 1.125. Sporadically throughout the threads (on PC and the Official Forums) this idea has arisen and continues to arise; I'd like to dedicate a thread towards it. Population changes and imbalances have been a recurrent issue. The underpopulated realm bonus was implemented to help alleviate it; however, does little to actually affect fluctuating population.

There is no guarantee that a realm pride bonus would have any significant effect on stabilizing population across the realms; however, it would give an incentive for dedicated realm players to actively participate in realm offense and defense in comparison to the underpopulated bonus.

From my personal experience in RvR participation the underpopulated bonus does little more than two things:
1. Inform the realms of their current population status (for the next 15 or so minutes until it updates)
2. Indirectly sway the flow of action.

To elaborate on point 2. If a BG is formed in one of the three realms, and they sit at a 25/35/45% underpopulated bonus, what message is that telling the BG? Depending on the person they will interpret it as "...Hey, we have an opportunity to earn some pretty good realm points seeing as we have a BG and we're outnumbered..." or "...Man, how many players must the enemy BG have if we're sitting at this high of an underpopulated bonus?? There's very little we can possibly do.."

These indirect messages that are conveyed by the underpopulated realm bonus is the primary reason I disagree with it. If, for instance, a graduated realm pride buff was established instead, the majority of active players within their respected realms would have less of a concern of where their realm sits during the next underpopulated realm update and would therefore be more involved in active NF participation as regardless of their realms current population, they may be sitting at a 50% rp/bp/coin/xp bonus through realm loyalty.

Notice: This is a representation of my personal opinion. Some may agree, Some may disagree. Please share your thoughts and opinions regarding this topic.

Solved add a realm timer that actually makes people choose what realm to play for the day

The population is too low for this to work without pissing off a large customer base. I think the idea to incentivise rather than force playing on a single realm is better.

24 hours isn't the idea but 8 hours would work

BurkleyRIP · November 2018

Incentives would work better than limitations. Most people would rather get something than be restricted

Dyn_Nothgrim · November 2018

realm timers wont work at this stage of the game. We will usually pick a realm that we think will have the best action on it. Sometimes thats not true so we have to swap realms. If action is really good we can go to all 3 realms doing quests. A realm timer would basically have me quit which I'm really close to anyway from the lack of action most nights.

A realm bonus for someone playing the same realm would be nice though give incentives for people that dont want to play other realms since this is a realm based game and some people enjoy picking the one side and staying on it.

albionexile · November 2018

I totally back realm timers, and not only that but having more realm pride in the game, realm pride is perhaps only on a % of the player base, maybe its 10%, maybe its 50%, but I can't see it being higher.

I feel DAOC has become a non realm pride for huge portion of player base now, and imo that is taking away from what DAOC is/was, now for many it's become more of a shoot-em-up blap em with no context or feeling that you're working towards a realm thing.

Stoertebecker · November 2018

Make it easy, if you play 1 realm and earn 1 rp on a char you`re free to switch realms but you won`t get rp`s for the next hour.

Quest rp`s for staying in 1 realm?

Just move the bb or whatever to a keep and get a reward for doing nothing? Cooooooool idea

Brut · November 2018

I think a realm buff is a good idea or even a title to say you are loyal to that realm.
Or a specific armour set you can pick up from staying on one realm.
There have to be incentives to stay on a realm.
If people want to swap realms that’s fine it’s free choice but it would be nice for realm loyalty to be rewarded.

zzx · November 2018

My idea would be to have a 7 day timer attached to your account. The timer starts when you are on one realm. As time goes by and you don't switch realms you get an RP buff. Lets say on day one you get 10%, day 2 20%, and on day 7 you get 70% You would maintain that 70% realm buff so long as you don't swap realms. You are free to swap at any time but you loose the work you have put in over the last 7 days. This method incentivizes people to stay in their realm long term but does not penalize anyone that wants to swap every night or even every hour.

Keltorius · November 2018

Zzx’s idea I like. The bonus is, I think too high, but the 7 days bonus with a reset isn’t bad

Tyrantanic · November 2018

I also think a progressive RP buff throughout the week would be good. Might consider adding a few requirements (i.e. only counts if you earned at least 1 RP for that day).

Shamissa · November 2018

8hrs would change a lot and trust me , would do a lot better for all realms. Won't take long enough if BS really wanna make a change. ❤️

zzx · November 2018

Keltorius wrote: »

Zzx’s idea I like. The bonus is, I think too high, but the 7 days bonus with a reset isn’t bad

Ya, my numbers were just example values, values TBD i suppose, but i think the idea would work well. Essentially a slow gain over a week for realm pride.

Tyrantanic · November 2018

Eithne wrote: »

8hrs would change a lot and trust me , would do a lot better for all realms. Won't take long enough if BS really wanna make a change. ❤️

Realm timers were introduced for the initial clustered servers. Based on some of the old patch notes I've read, there was a clear steady decrease in the timer: 8 hours (Patch 1.74), 1 hour (Patch 1.78), 5 minutes (Patch 1.90, ?Hot Fix removed?, re-implemented in Patch 1.107), and now nothing since Patch 1.112 (as far as I can tell). Note that Ywain was introduced in Patch 1.99. Server clusters were a response to the declining population. While correlation does not necessarily mean causation, I strongly advise against implementing a realm timer that is hour(s) long for the current state of the game.

Edit: here's the link to the archives.
https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/patch-notes

Sleepwell · November 2018

There's not an easy button. While realm timers probably won't work, neither does the current situation. I'm speaking solely from my perspective of course, and everyone should form their own opinion. The discussion hopefully will lead to something that saves the pop we at least still maintain.

Is there a way to avoid mob mentality (join the larger mob to dominate the weak?) Probably not.

Offer incentive to underpopulated realm? Already happens, but as seen, the incentive doesnt really work. It works great for small man staying off the beaten path, or for solos/duo/trio, but not to balance population (as i think they intended). There are who still preach realm pride, but that is a small minority. In the end will mob mentality win out?

I agree that incentives work better than limitations or penalties, but the current state isnt working (again, from my perspective).

Vrisslar · November 2018

Honestly the more i think about all of this the less i like the idea.

Realm pride / loyalty whatever i really doubt will fix anything, people will go to where the win and quest completion are happening, cause people like to win and even with a 100% loyalty RP bonus 0 kill or close to it, are still 0 RP or close to it.

A realm pride buff is basicly a bonus to people that only chose to play 33% of the game, for the people that havent grown attached to chars, houses, guilds, friends, you name it, across all 3 realms for many years before it all got turned in to 1 server.

A person like me, that likes to switch realm to help the underdog cause i have more then enough chars and accounts from both EU and US to pick from, if i sit with 100% RP bonus realm pride buff, i can stay on the overpopulated site and keep my bonus, but if i choose to switch to the underdog to even out the fight im suddenly pooped on.

A person with multiple accounts, can just build 100% bonus on 2 different realms and hop around to join the winning side while keeping the bonus. ( 100% are ofc grabbed out of thin air and not how it should be. )

I fail to see what a realm pride buff will fix or do to help the underdog.

Personally the only way i see to help the low pop realms, is to help them defend and attack things or reward them for fighting against the odds, so the things i can think of are:

Vrisslar wrote: »

How about strengthening keep walls / gates, increase oil, siege, guard damage on the lower populated realms and let the keeps sapwn more guards that retire when population balances out, maybe let dead guards respawn faster too ?
On top of this maybe weaken the walls and gates of overpopulated realm ? Just to toss something out there and not just shoot down ideas, sorry.
Basicly let it all flow with population bonus as it updates.

Maybe do a RP pulse on keeps, like every 15 mins, a fight is going for a keep, a set pulse of RP's are rewarded to people in the area of the keep, if 60 players are in the fight, 20 defender, 40 attackers, then the defenders get a 100% bonus to the RP pulse cause the attackers are 100% more then them. ( Numbers are ofc grabbed out of thin air and should be discussed ) To prevent afking a combat timer will be required to be active to get the pulse or something like that.

Its the only things i can think of that will actualy help the underpopulated realms abit, other then a forced realm lock timer, you enter RvR, your locked to NF access on that realm only for 6 hours, again tho i doubt it will fix alot cause the losing side will probably have alot of people just going PvE or logging, and the winning side might have people locked to it that wants to help the underpopulated realm.

Gavner · November 2018

@Vrisslar
I personally like the ideas more here.

My issue with Realm Pride bonus is, that you solve one problem, to create another. Someone going to be pissed. I mostly play 1 realm at a time where friends are, but have toons all realms, this would not punish me really. However lots of people playing multiple realms with multiple friends at the same time. If the bonus is too great, they will feel abandoned/punished joining the currently playing friends of them. Since realm lock basically down since years, its quiet possible many players play multiple realms actively, I wouldn't like pissing them off.

So then again, if the reward is too little, then the issued "realm hoppers" simply wouldn't care to sacrifice 20% RP for better action, more RP overall.

We have to always count with realm hoppers, since the new system somewhat needed that feature, theres no other server atm then Ywain. Wish our playercount would allow to get more servers again, so servers be realm locked like old times, so a player could choose which server where they play, but thats no longer possible. We have to respect many enjoy playing more then 33% of the game without being punished for that.

Giving bonus to lower populated realms already out, and we see that didn't have the desired effect, people rather play with 0% bonus and better action then 75% bonus. Maybe the good route is really giving underpopulated realms more/stronger guards, better oil, stronger walls, and more keep defense RP. Because RP itelf simply won't stop realm hopping, it never did, if they feel like theres no chance to win/defend in a fight.

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

Gavner wrote: »

@Vrisslar
I personally like the ideas more here.

My issue with Realm Pride bonus is, that you solve one problem, to create another. Someone going to be pissed. I mostly play 1 realm at a time where friends are, but have toons all realms, this would not punish me really. However lots of people playing multiple realms with multiple friends at the same time. If the bonus is too great, they will feel abandoned/punished joining the currently playing friends of them. Since realm lock basically down since years, its quiet possible many players play multiple realms actively, I wouldn't like pissing them off.

So then again, if the reward is too little, then the issued "realm hoppers" simply wouldn't care to sacrifice 20% RP for better action, more RP overall.

We have to always count with realm hoppers, since the new system somewhat needed that feature, theres no other server atm then Ywain. Wish our playercount would allow to get more servers again, so servers be realm locked like old times, so a player could choose which server where they play, but thats no longer possible. We have to respect many enjoy playing more then 33% of the game without being punished for that.

Giving bonus to lower populated realms already out, and we see that didn't have the desired effect, people rather play with 0% bonus and better action then 75% bonus. Maybe the good route is really giving underpopulated realms more/stronger guards, better oil, stronger walls, and more keep defense RP. Because RP itelf simply won't stop realm hopping, it never did, if they feel like theres no chance to win/defend in a fight.

Someone will always be displeased with something. Realm Pride is a concept that has been discussed for at least a few years and there appear to be many that would like some variant of it to exist in today's game. As I stated previously, it would have no negative effect on players that choose to change realms; it would only benefit players that are dedicated to a single realm. You have an option to change realms with your groups to follow the flow of action, etc., therefore if you choose to do so you simply revoke your realm pride status, it's inherent in the name of the bonus. This would have no impact on your ability to obtain Bugganes, Lone Wolf and/or Battlefield potions.

Edit: I'm still very interested in one persons idea of implementing a tiered "campaign" in which you may earn "realm pride points" for dedication to a single realm and at the end of the "campaign" players receive rewards based on the realm pride points they've accumulated. That'd be pretty interesting.

Gavner · November 2018

@Amp_Phetamine

I do understand your reasons, and while I know many who play one realm would love this feature, we have to admit that we would implement these features to fight the classic Realm Hoppers.

The best solution is still the old min 3 server with Realm Lock, basically we had to give this up, and introduce Realm Hopping to the game. We can implement 20 systems into the game to fight this issue, but truth is, not much can be done, except more and more people will get into this crossfire.

You can say this is a "bonus", but if a bonus is given to the majority of players playing one realm only, then honestly, its not a bonus, but a punishment for those who don't get it because they been playing multiple realms since who knows how many years since Ywain was introduced.

Meanwhile you have to decide, how big this bonus will be, and what? RP Bonus? 75% was not enough to motivate players, then how much you want to give more? 20%? No one will care, and you just made people get even more RPs, because the issued Realm Hoppers will continue to do their thing. Item or cosmetic item bonus? This would also not be welcomed by players playing multiple realm, because they forced to give up something cool because of the way they like to play the game.

Yes, your argument is valid, whatever we do, it will bring unpleased customers. My only issue is, we can't guess how many of these people would be pissed enough to leave the game, and will it solve anything? What kind of bonuses we implement? Too little? You solve nothing. Too big? Those player's have a chance to leave because they will feel their playstyle no longer welcomed, and they miss out huge bonuses others get.

Realm Pride is something that should come from the player, not from huge bonuses. You have great Realm Pride for Albion, is it because of some bonus? Nope. You can't force people who has 0 Realm Pride to have the same kind of Pride towards their realms with bonuses.

We have to swallow the pill that with current playerbase numbers we can't solve this problem altogether. If you want to encourage people however to play the realm they like, I think the solution is to give them tools to fight back instead, so if they like a realm, they stay to defend. However, just by tossing around rewards, you won't make them like any realm more, you just force them to act like they like a realm, while you piss off some other players.

Sleepwell · November 2018

I'm back and forth on this. Realm pride bonus works to an extent. But different play times and people who follow the zerg or people that hop realms to fight the zerg are in fact either penalized or awarded based on where they choose to play. People will start to follow the same protocol. Well, the majority will anyway... the mob mentality kicks in for about 70% of the population. Lately that would mean that the time i play (typically 9 est to 11 est), the majority will log onto alb or mid to tag along with 1 of 3 bgs. There is no incentive with this to switch realms to even the zergs. The opposite affect happens. You would be in fact penalized if you switch realms to even population and perhaps fight the larger zerg. I am leaning more towards others ideas of the increased defense/guards/oil damage solution.

Brut · November 2018

Well I agree with a lot of what is said here but I do believe there is a place for realm pride and realm.
I don’t think timers would fix this or even rp bonuses from what I can see from rp bonuses it’s just a way that most people gauge there realms population.
Realm pride goes hand in hand with realm loyalty I would love to see some form of armour set for a realms loyal players to get which could maybe but not necessarily convey certain realm appropriate buffs or skills or just a purely cosmetic look.
It’s about building realm pride and loyalty why should anyone care if people who want to stay on a particular realm get some recognition of there loyalty and pride in there realm if you are going to different realms that’s your choice equallly it’s your choice to stay on a realm and defend it.

Gavner · November 2018

@Brut
While cosmetics for loyalty sounds fun, and make people with Realm Pride happy (me too actually, im silly and like shiney stuff like a ferret), its either not motivating enough for people to stay with one realm, or after they got it, they just return back to realm hopping.

My issue is, Pride is a great thing, but doubt it can be "purchased", so we have to be careful with this implementation. Our #1 goal should be make as many people rejoin DAoC as possible, and make underdog realms perform better in overnumbered situations, so at least people with any real realm pride don't feel like they have to swap realms to perform.

Edit: Also, to make DAoC any better place for people to rejoin, we must keep working after 1.125 to make itemization less demanding. Inflation is horrible, and issue isn't about the existence of hard to get, and powerful items. The issue is the scale of gap between these items (amazing procs, stats, and /uses), we have to have easier to get gear with only very slightly worse stats.

Brut · November 2018

Ok here’s another idea that is extremely radical that eliminates all realm hopping and could potentially revitalise the game.
We have something like 30 odd classes in the game that are all only experienced on one particular realm.
How about if we had a server where any class in the game could be played by one realm rather like the mordred server but you could only kill opposing teams.
Would be no issues with people complaining about op classes or group setups as each realm would have the same classes.
The battlegrounds would be full again with people levelling up various toons and the grouo set ups would be completely revitalised think of the crazy combinations you could have.
I mean we already have a precedent for that in the mauler it’s a class used on all 3realms.
Would be worth a shot as maybe an experimental server group fights would be based on skill and group set up rather than the abilities of the particular toons.

Gavner · November 2018

@Brut
All ideas worth considering, but that would mean lots of work, which currently doubt DAoC can get monetized, and a lot higher playerbase. To be honest, if we even had the playerbase to upkeep 2 servers, then we ain't far of being 3 servers, which could open the door to realm lock once again if we could transfer our current toons to separate servers, which would also mean lot less work to manage. Unfortunately we lack the playerbase, and income for that right now i fear.

Brut · November 2018

Yeh but just think of the fun on that server so many combinations.
Only problem would be the lore but hell it would be fun.
Imagine the Zerg and 8 man fights

Vrisslar · November 2018

My issue with realm pride buff as i tried to say in my last post is:

1. If a person got alb and hib chars and plays during EU time zone, it would benefit them more to stay on hib to zerg with Hero and get increased RP's from a loyaly bonus.
2. In the above situation this does nothing to help the alb population during EU play times, if Hero are taking keeps in Alb, then even with a 100% RP loyalty bonus the albs would still have to run/boat from relic town, they would still have to fight outnumbered with 0 help to defend or retake, while at the same time the loyal EU hibs that stay with the zerg gain increased RP's.

So basicly the loosing side would still be in a **** situation, with people logging out or going PvE, to keep thier realm pride buff, while the loyal Hibs get rewarded with increased RP's from quests and kills, giving them 0 reason to switch to help the underpopulated realm.

I still belive whats needed is something to help the underpopulated fight back and giving them a reward for fighting back, a 100% RP bonus dosnt reward anyone anything if they cant get any kills.

So basicly im stuck to something along the lines of my last post, with buffed guards / keep / RP pulse etc, as it helps and rewards people for fighting, even if they dont get any kills, a pulse would still reward them as long as they are fighting.

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

Vrisslar wrote: »

My issue with realm pride buff as i tried to say in my last post is:

1. If a person got alb and hib chars and plays during EU time zone, it would benefit them more to stay on hib to zerg with Hero and get increased RP's from a loyaly bonus.
2. In the above situation this does nothing to help the alb population during EU play times, if Hero are taking keeps in Alb, then even with a 100% RP loyalty bonus the albs would still have to run/boat from relic town, they would still have to fight outnumbered with 0 help to defend or retake, while at the same time the loyal EU hibs that stay with the zerg gain increased RP's.

So basicly the loosing side would still be in a **** situation, with people logging out or going PvE, to keep thier realm pride buff, while the loyal Hibs get rewarded with increased RP's from quests and kills, giving them 0 reason to switch to help the underpopulated realm.

I still belive whats needed is something to help the underpopulated fight back and giving them a reward for fighting back, a 100% RP bonus dosnt reward anyone anything if they cant get any kills.

So basicly im stuck to something along the lines of my last post, with buffed guards / keep / RP pulse etc, as it helps and rewards people for fighting, even if they dont get any kills, a pulse would still reward them as long as they are fighting.

That's a great point. The loyal players of any realm will receive the realm loyalty bonuses regardless of their realms population; however, it needs to be implemented in a form applicable to benefit those loyal players who may find themselves in overwhelming situations. There has to be a way to benefit players to continue and attempt siege defense and/or even continue fighting in the Frontiers when vastly overwhelmed versus switching sides or logging off completely.

The concept of scaling keep/guard/oil difficulty/damage is an interesting idea that could benefit those that decide to compete against the odds. Give the majority a reason NOT to switch without penalizing or negating those who do so casually.

Quite difficult I agree, but a realm pride/loyalty bonus/buff is certainly a step in the right direction.

Gavner · November 2018

@Amp_Phetamine I think what @Vrisslar said is something even I didnt consider yet.

If you force people to choose a realm, they will just chose the realm which is strongest/safest in their usual playtime. For example, EU time->Join Hib and Herirous, Late EU / Early US ->Join Mids, Middle/Late US->Join Albs.

This will get us even further not really being a Realm Pride, and bring even more issues. As already said, Pride is not something that can be "bought".

I think People with real Realm Pride just like you, and many others having trouble understanding, but many of current players really don't care about the realm they play in, or choose sides depending on their friends playtime, or depending on playercount.

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

Gavner wrote: »

@Amp_Phetamine I think what @Vrisslar said is something even I didnt consider yet.

If you force people to choose a realm, they will just chose the realm which is strongest/safest in their usual playtime. For example, EU time->Join Hib and Herirous, Late EU / Early US ->Join Mids, Middle/Late US->Join Albs.

This will get us even further not really being a Realm Pride, and bring even more issues. As already said, Pride is not something that can be "bought".

I think People with real Realm Pride just like you, and many others having trouble understanding, but many of current players really don't care about the realm they play in, or choose sides depending on their friends playtime, or depending on playercount.

Which is why I'm continuing this thread in hopes of a way in which we can implement realm pride for players such as myself without penalizing or hurting players that are indifferent to which realm they play. If, at some time, it is implemented, it would have to be done so in a way so as not to ostracize the community that isn't loyal to a single realm.

A lot of the remarks here focus on the negatives that could be attributed, which are all required and valid forms of constructive criticism. But there are positives to be attributed to realm pride as well.

To comment on your last statement. I wouldn't be so callous as to assume that many players don't care about realm pride as I shouldn't be so bold as to assume that many players do.

This topic is simply for those who would find it beneficial and enjoyable to institute realm pride and to evaluate the pro's and cons. But just because one side of the party doesn't necessarily care about realm pride, they shouldn't denounce it simply because it won't benefit them.

zzx · November 2018

How about a combination of things...hear me out......
One problem is realm A has a larger population than realm B so they automatically have an advantage. Realm B should then receive a buff. Either a literal buff to all stats, or a buff to all siege stats (more oil damage, faster ram speed, skald buff type stuff.) But you cant get that buff if you have been playing multiple realms. So you get a stat buff of 1% on day one, 2% on day 2, and 7% on day 7 (again random numbers I'm making up.) But you only get the buff in the 2 situations.

tldr:
Get a stat buff and or siege buff that grows over time (days,) you must be underpopulated, and you have been loyal to the realm for x number of days.

Amp_Phetamine · November 2018

zzx wrote: »

How about a combination of things...hear me out......
One problem is realm A has a larger population than realm B so they automatically have an advantage. Realm B should then receive a buff. Either a literal buff to all stats, or a buff to all siege stats (more oil damage, faster ram speed, skald buff type stuff.) But you cant get that buff if you have been playing multiple realms. So you get a stat buff of 1% on day one, 2% on day 2, and 7% on day 7 (again random numbers I'm making up.) But you only get the buff in the 2 situations.

tldr:
Get a stat buff and or siege buff that grows over time (days,) you must be underpopulated, and you have been loyal to the realm for x number of days.

Would this buff reset upon population balance or would it scale for playing the realm consecutively yet only increase during underpopulated times?

zzx · November 2018

Amp_Phetamine wrote: »

zzx wrote: »

How about a combination of things...hear me out......
One problem is realm A has a larger population than realm B so they automatically have an advantage. Realm B should then receive a buff. Either a literal buff to all stats, or a buff to all siege stats (more oil damage, faster ram speed, skald buff type stuff.) But you cant get that buff if you have been playing multiple realms. So you get a stat buff of 1% on day one, 2% on day 2, and 7% on day 7 (again random numbers I'm making up.) But you only get the buff in the 2 situations.

tldr:
Get a stat buff and or siege buff that grows over time (days,) you must be underpopulated, and you have been loyal to the realm for x number of days.

Would this buff reset upon population balance or would it scale for playing the realm consecutively yet only increase during underpopulated times?

Good question. But i think the second statement you made would make the most sense. I dont know....

Realm Pride Bonus - Possibility for 1.125

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