However, I am not going to sit around and cheer-lead from the side when I see something that I totally disagree with, for whatever reason. The other posters have said it well, it's a slap in the face to suggest what they are going to do with the BP's, regardless of whether they are useful or not now. Clearly something got through, as the grab bag that Friday, changed it to allowing players to purchase items before deleting the bp's. (goodness, in what game do the devs go and delete people's stuff?? I know of only when they were obtained through cheating, bugs etc. not through actual legitimate game play).
One thing I would like to see as an option to spend surplus BPs on before the wipe is tradable illustrious gear. Currently it is not tradable and I would have to play bots for a small amount of time in order to purchase said bot template. I would be very happy if, for a brief time, that illustrious gear was tradable so that I could gear out my bots. In the end Broadsword gets what it wants, I spend my BPs and I get what I want, the ability to gear out bots without having to be forced to play them in RVR.
@Sovereign Oh my, Sov, can you please tell me where the Illustrious stuff drops? Been farming and looking and can't find any info about this stuff anywhere. wtf drops it?
Sure, I could sit here and preach about how easy they could have made it as well guys. Yes, they could have simply put a merchant in with all the items for sale for BP's. They could have not stripped and capped the BP's since the items are not tradeable. I'm not saying you are wrong on either of these things. I'm saying the rage should be taken down a notch, as we are getting a version (albeit a messy complicated version) of what we as the community asked for and who know's what the final product will be. Also, even if they did put a simple merchant in and didn't cap/reduce bp's then people would be upset (as they already are) that these items aren't tradeable. My point simply being that no matter what the hell they did people would still be outraged.
They touched on the types of items @Staticc. They didn't give the exact items but they did say it would be OW, Curse, Frozen, etc.... But who know's what the final product will be.
All I am getting at is lets reserve the rage for when the actual patch comes out and we actually see and experience the changes. Most of the hate was over the cap/strip of bp's and they have already stated that they are looking at that cap again. As many have stated, I think they are making it too difficult on themselves. Leave the bp's the way they are. The people that have tons of bp's saved up more than likely won't be needing any new template gear and the stuff isn't tradeable so I don't see the issue. I also agree that a merchant would be a much more simple method rather than putting together several things and crafting an item.
Sure, I could sit here and preach about how easy they could have made it as well guys. Yes, they could have simply put a merchant in with all the items for sale for BP's. They could have not stripped and capped the BP's since the items are not tradeable. I'm not saying you are wrong on either of these things. I'm saying the rage should be taken down a notch, as we are getting a version (albeit a messy complicated version) of what we as the community asked for and who know's what the final product will be. Also, even if they did put a simple merchant in and didn't cap/reduce bp's then people would be upset (as they already are) that these items aren't tradeable. My point simply being that no matter what the hell they did people would still be outraged.
They touched on the types of items @Staticc. They didn't give the exact items but they did say it would be OW, Curse, Frozen, etc.... But who know's what the final product will be.
All I am getting at is lets reserve the rage for when the actual patch comes out and we actually see and experience the changes. Most of the hate was over the cap/strip of bp's and they have already stated that they are looking at that cap again. As many have stated, I think they are making it too difficult on themselves. Leave the bp's the way they are. The people that have tons of bp's saved up more than likely won't be needing any new template gear and the stuff isn't tradeable so I don't see the issue. I also agree that a merchant would be a much more simple method rather than putting together several things and crafting an item.
Now I can back you fully on this post!
Unfortunately there's a multi-factorial of variables additionally causing people to be frustrated. Current prime time populations can barely hold 800 players during weekends. The market is barren for these end-game pve items that weren't even supposed to be game changing in the first place, because of that templates cost 1000+pp or a month+ of game play hoping you can log in and stay in during pve raids.
Bugs are out of control but being worked on. The devs and BS had roughly been silent regarding 1.125 for months with zero updates and feed back until the producers letter dropped which was a huge mistake. Then once the producers letter dropped it was this mangled mess of half thought up ideas that hardly made comprehensible sense. Most of the rage and backlash was simply the tipping point of what has been building since 1.124. Now with the delay of 1.125 and many features that players (current and potential returners) had been hoping for the level of patience is growing thinner.
I can state that these grandiose complicated changes BS has been implementing and, from the looks of 1.125, are still attempting to implement are getting old, fast. Continual assassin revamps, class balance changes, pet overhauls, necro changes - these were all things that could've been done on a smaller scale with potentially a much better outcome, in my opinion.
Micro changes and micro hotfixes should be prioritized over a "major" patch. Things like crashing to desktop bugs, item clicking crash bugs, quest journal bugs etc etc are things that shouldn't require an annual patch to fix, these should be done at least bi-monthly.
crying about bounty points is a fking joke, they have been like utterly useless forever
they taking away something that has been useless since like the beginning of daoc
just proves people will bitch and cry about anything
no one cares how many bps u got, no one is ever going to know how many bps you got, and 1 day u will quit and or sell and when you think back on daoc how many bp's you had is prob not gonna even come to mind lol..
and how many bps you get for a kill ? barely any ? u can go do 1 dock quest with bugane and get like 5k bps, get a million in a week running that ****, bps have been useless and in huge free abundance for a LONG time
qq all you want about what makes you unhappy with the game, but bounty points ? seriously ? come on now..
least now you will actualy be able to benefit from bp's...and your upset ? I don't get it, id rather have 0 bps and be able to start benefiting/profiting off my bp's then have a 1million piled up with nothing to use them on
unless people think they are good players because they have a lot of bp's as proof
pretty sure if someone says anyone lfg ? and you /send them saying your class and how many bounty points you have, they probably wont be sending you and invite^^ lol
its like yall qqing they gonna remove copper, cant do **** with copper anyway, but yall like oooo that's bullshit, I had 99c saved up wtf
unless people think they are good players because they have a lot of bp's as proof
pretty sure if someone says anyone lfg ? and you /send them saying your class and how many bounty points you have, they probably wont be sending you and invite^^ lol
Hue did you not read anything in the last 3 pages?
/sigh
Tl;dr - Don't take away something a player has earned simply on a whim because it fits your current idea.
crying about bounty points is a fking joke, they have been like utterly useless forever
they taking away something that has been useless since like the beginning of daoc
just proves people will bitch and cry about anything
no one cares how many bps u got, no one is ever going to know how many bps you got, and 1 day u will quit and or sell and when you think back on daoc how many bp's you had is prob not gonna even come to mind lol..
and how many bps you get for a kill ? barely any ? u can go do 1 dock quest with bugane and get like 5k bps, get a million in a week running that ****, bps have been useless and in huge free abundance for a LONG time
qq all you want about what makes you unhappy with the game, but bounty points ? seriously ? come on now..
least now you will actualy be able to benefit from bp's...and your upset ? I don't get it, id rather have 0 bps and be able to start benefiting/profiting off my bp's then have a 1million piled up with nothing to use them on
Okay I'll break this down for you:
crying about bounty points is a fking joke, they have been like utterly useless forever - People have been asking for years to make BP's more useful. Just because they're 'useless' as you state doesn't mean people don't want to use what they've earned.
they taking away something that has been useless since like the beginning of daoc - Please see above
just proves people will bitch and cry about anything - I believe anyone would be upset on the concept of losing anything they rightfully have earned.
no one cares how many bps u got, no one is ever going to know how many bps you got, and 1 day u will quit and or sell and when you think back on daoc how many bp's you had is prob not gonna even come to mind lol.. - Please read above. According to your logic you then wouldn't mind if BS eliminated your plat and rps then because "...how many bp's you had is prob not gonna even come to mind lol"
and how many bps you get for a kill ? barely any ? u can go do 1 dock quest with bugane and get like 5k bps, get a million in a week running that ****, bps have been useless and in huge free abundance for a LONG time - That's trying to compare something that has been earned over years of gameplay to something that may be earned in the future. Not comparable.
qq all you want about what makes you unhappy with the game, but bounty points ? seriously ? come on now.. - Please see above. It's the principal of the matter, people with self respect and admiration for accomplishments won't sit lightly and be disrespected.
least now you will actualy be able to benefit from bp's...and your upset ? I don't get it, id rather have 0 bps and be able to start benefiting/profiting off my bp's then have a 1million piled up with nothing to use them on - Don't generalize how you feel regarding the situation as to how others should feel.
If we have the advanced knowledge prior to the patch coming out, and bs actually values our thoughts as a player base, which they should, then giving our feedback BEFORE the patch comes out provide a better outcome. Regardless of everyone's opinion on here that I agree or disagree with, is good conversation. If we just sit quietly and say nothing, then patch hits and we could have said something to make them change it before hand would truly mean there is no hope at all for this game. Wether I disagree or agree with anyone's ideas here thank you, personally and sincerely, for share those ideas. This is actually how each major patch should go. "Hey guys we are wanting to do X, Y , and Z" well that's crap, well its not so bad, well it totally sucks, well this part is cool. That's called feedback, and each and every one of these comments should be taken seriously as they do represent a portion of the player base.
honestly no I didn't read anything before I poste lol ;p I just scrolled over some line of bp, and I seen a lot of bp crying on postcount to so shrugs
its very hard for me to understand why people would care about bp's or think they have any important considering they never have, but I suppose others might care, just putting my opinion anyway, still love all my bp liking frands ! ;p
honestly no I didn't read anything before I poste lol ;p I just scrolled over some line of bp, and I seen a lot of bp crying on postcount to so shrugs
its very hard for me to understand why people would care about bp's or think they have any important considering they never have, but I suppose others might care, just putting my opinion anyway, still love all my bp liking frands ! ;p
Lmao /hugs okay fair enough. I put some alternative opinions a post above to elaborate on at least why I and others that feel the same way as I do care
I can state that these grandiose complicated changes BS has been implementing and, from the looks of 1.125, are still attempting to implement are getting old, fast. Continual assassin revamps, class balance changes, pet overhauls, necro changes - these were all things that could've been done on a smaller scale with potentially a much better outcome, in my opinion.
Micro changes and micro hotfixes should be prioritized over a "major" patch. Things like crashing to desktop bugs, item clicking crash bugs, quest journal bugs etc etc are things that shouldn't require an annual patch to fix, these should be done at least bi-monthly.
Agreed 100% on this!! It does make me wonder why a change like making the zone buggane is in give credit for bugganes in the entire zone was needed to be done via a big patch like 1.125. That is something that should have been put in when it was ready. Things like game crashing bugs and just general bugs also need to be looked at heavily before implementing game changing issues. The problem with Dream Conqueror band dropping its buff if you change out ANY bracer comes to mind.
If we have the advanced knowledge prior to the patch coming out, and bs actually values our thoughts as a player base, which they should, then giving our feedback BEFORE the patch comes out provide a better outcome.
I'm all about constructive criticism and just as you posted, I also think getting that feedback before release can mitigate a lot of issues. My only problem was the amount of vitriol spewed over these announced changes. Anyone pointing out that instead of doing crafting and getting 3-4 items to make an item, that it would be much easier to put a merchant in is providing constructive criticism. I'm all for that. People saying they don't need a cap/strip of bp's because these things aren't tradeable is a great idea. However, saying the game is dead and you are quitting the game forever because this patch will kill the game is a bit overboard. Sadly, I have seen several of these posts since the announcement of 1.125.
On a side note, this may be why BS doesn't communicate the most with us players. Anytime they do most people just complain non-stop about it rather than trying to have an open conversation with constructive criticism.
@RonELuvv Oh I am one of the people that flipped. Hell I got a forum ban out of it... I was, and still am passionate about these changes. I recently resubbed (coming up on 3 months now) and opened an additional account. I also backed CU, which is a direct competitor. These changes and delays are very upsetting, and while I sure hope that BS is aware of the competition, the direct competition that CU has to DAoC has never been greater. And sometimes a company needs to be reminded that there is competition. I am all for letting bad apples leave, but this will impact a vast majority of good apples that have been loyal, more loyal than I have been. I quit 10 years ago when Labby came out and I made 500k in a day, I said RPS mean nothing anymore, I'm out. Came back 4 years ago, and was forced, yes forced, to play against my wishes (No I will not go into the details), I again, said no state of game change, I'm out. Came back and RR means so much less than it already dwindled to, and now see these potential notes.... I'm afraid my personal 3 subs are in very short order. And I am aware of what I will be logging into come July 4. I want DAoC to be great again, I want 1k logged into each realm instead of combined (on a very good day), I want to role play and see the mysteries that a quest could reveal, I want to fight other people. But, only 1 of these potential notes directly contributes to this, the bug change, which could go live tonight, but will not, and be on hold for however many months, the BP cap and slash has been beaten to death, and look, as a result of the very fast and sharp reactions, they are implementing changes to satisfy that (separate post about that inc. fyi) But for a game that is 16 years old, there is still to many fundamental bugs that would actually be patch notes (anyone group port and have a member crash or load into housing or another zone recently???). I don't know about you personally, but I like to make sure my car starts before I make sure the wiper fluid is full.... Fix existing bugs and issues, on a regular basis, that will keep the community active. Release a "X-pac" after it has been tested once a year - 2 years to keep the community engaged.
But yes, at the end of the day, if these potential notes go in as listed, my 3 subs, and I know of 5 others (3 of which have already quit in the past week) will terminate. Thats a FG, that is literally 1 FG missing in RvR. And thats not even addressing the community aspect of the game.
My sub may not mean much to you now, but when there is 1 less FG to fight, it might mean something to you then...
I agree with the car analogy @Staticc and agree they should focus more on fixing existing bugs as opposed to re-inventing the wheel per se. Since you are new to coming back, if you had followed the forums at all then you would have saw that ever since they implemented Dragons Curse raid (which I was not a fan of them doing) people have thrown a fit that they have to try and accommodate getting into a BG to do PvE just to be able to compete in RvR. Everyone was asking for a system that would allow people to RvR to obtain these items. I agree, they could have done it better, but my point is that they are TRYING to listen to the community and trying to do some stuff that we are asking for. I have read many of your posts and I would say most came off as constructive. I got nothing wrong with somebody saying, "Hey, did you ever think of trying this..." Its just when people rage and say they are quitting.
Like I posted earlier, I legit have seen many people complain about how this game is too hard and in that same post heard many people complain that it is too easy. If something that should be that obvious is debated about then how is BS supposed to try and please everyone?
Any community facing position gets crap dealing with the crazies. It's up to the company to decide if they throw the baby out with the bathwater or not.
Outside of the constantly negative actors in the community, I think players expect more. This game has a small community and for a game this old to still exist as a paid service is pretty rare. People aren't happy with the style of communication. I appreciate that the community leads are active here - but at times it feels placating. People are curious as to what direction things are going in - they're curious as to why change X, Y, or Z was made. Maybe there is a perfectly viable explanation on the back end that isn't immediately visible up front, but if nobody is going to fill people in as to why they'll just start making assumptions.
All that aside, the vultures are out there circling. You e got CU coming up, as well as a beta for another DAoC venue somewhere ahead. Population is already low enough to cause concern for many people and there are two immediate potential drains dead ahead in the coming months.
I think people want strong and clear answers and logic. People want bugs fixed sooner than later. While some are clearly upset at name changes - I'd wager most people would rather get stuff that is already done/more easily done implemented separately from the next changes if at all possible.
... and then the F2P talk is it's own looming beast with differing levels of hope attached to it. Inviting people in for F2P currently to me seems like having a house party in an unfinished house where you still have open holes in the floor - almost in a literal sense with how often people get stuck in geometry/fall through the ground into the ocean during EV porting... and the /stuck option doesn't even seem to work half the time.
So people are going to be salty. They see looming threats to the ongoing population stability and their confidence is wavering. They see F2P and wonder if new players will even endure the odd complexities of DAoC - and then they see Broadsword adding in one system requested, with what is subjectively more complexity added on top of it.
On top of all of that, the only thing that seems to make waves with anything anymore is mass outrage. Love it or hate it, results are results. So, that's what people do.
As far as the game being too easy - it's hit or miss. If you've been playing DAoC for years, yeah, it's probably easy. If not, then mileage may vary. If you are used to playing modern games, going back to DAoC is probably like walking into a brick wall at times.
Changing a name manually is and always has been possible, making the game do it (instead of a person manually editing it) never was and that's what was addressed as regards the issue.
So charge an amount that's equal to the time it takes for a staffer to make the manual change. The players that want this are willing to spend money to make it happen; you also don't need to make it an instant thing. A 96+ hour turnaround time is totally acceptable, IMO.
Agreed that if there will be a nail in the coffin for daoc it will be cu. That does concern me, but the optimist in me see's that as a reason for BS to really listen to the community and and try amd make things better to keep whoever they can.
Love race respec for my merc.. going Half Ogre (ty for clarifying the attributes will change)
Would have loved even more a name change though.
Post edited by Natebruner on
"I think what he is doing is good. For a long time Albs not have very good leaders. Natebruner is perfect, his accuracy, his pushing"
HERORIUS
"Nate calling out fights in the Alb public bg has been a recent source of entertainment for me, most of those folks have never heard anyone call targets during US prime." Teddie
"First off I am pretty sure most Mids agree that Albs previous leaders were weak and Nate is actually bringing out action." Impounded
BS, in your on self interest, don't **** over the players that have been the pillars of your community by stripping away their BP.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
@Fateboi
CU is around the corner? In which world are you living?
It is Beta1 start soon, a very very basic beta and the servers will not be up 24/7.
It`ll take 1,5y from now to release, minimum. That isn`t soon.
Yes, the Beta will drain some ppl...for some hours of beta-testing, not playing a game.
Time runs short for Broadsword, thats for sure. The delay of Endless Conquest and moving a release somewhere into the first half of 2019 is a major mistake. We need more players now, within the next 3-4 month.
That should be on highest priority, not this BP-crap, RvR-improvements, fluffstuff etcetc.
I don`t get it..ppl are crying in selfishness about bountypoints that were nearly worthless, but about one of the main problems....silence.
So what do you all want? MoV, Cursed Gauntlets and Cursed Sets for 50k bp each piece and tradeable?
They`ll be worthless with 100 players at primetime in each realm (maybe soon).
@Fateboi
CU is around the corner? In which world are you living?
It is Beta1 start soon, a very very basic beta and the servers will not be up 24/7.
It`ll take 1,5y from now to release, minimum. That isn`t soon.
Yes, the Beta will drain some ppl...for some hours of beta-testing, not playing a game.
Time runs short for Broadsword, thats for sure. The delay of Endless Conquest and moving a release somewhere into the first half of 2019 is a major mistake. We need more players now, within the next 3-4 month.
That should be on highest priority, not this BP-crap, RvR-improvements, fluffstuff etcetc.
I don`t get it..ppl are crying in selfishness about bountypoints that were nearly worthless, but about one of the main problems....silence.
So what do you all want? MoV, Cursed Gauntlets and Cursed Sets for 50k bp each piece and tradeable?
They`ll be worthless with 100 players at primetime in each realm (maybe soon).
Let me try and help you out --- In the greater scheme of issues BP's are small --- but it points to the constant disregard to a majority of the long term player base....since there doesn't seem to be a flood of new blood, doesn't that demonstrate a bigger problem???
@Fateboi
CU is around the corner? In which world are you living?
It is Beta1 start soon, a very very basic beta and the servers will not be up 24/7.
It`ll take 1,5y from now to release, minimum. That isn`t soon.
Yes, the Beta will drain some ppl...for some hours of beta-testing, not playing a game.
Time runs short for Broadsword, thats for sure. The delay of Endless Conquest and moving a release somewhere into the first half of 2019 is a major mistake. We need more players now, within the next 3-4 month.
That should be on highest priority, not this BP-crap, RvR-improvements, fluffstuff etcetc.
I don`t get it..ppl are crying in selfishness about bountypoints that were nearly worthless, but about one of the main problems....silence.
So what do you all want? MoV, Cursed Gauntlets and Cursed Sets for 50k bp each piece and tradeable?
They`ll be worthless with 100 players at primetime in each realm (maybe soon).
Let me try and help you out --- In the greater scheme of issues BP's are small --- but it points to the constant disregard to a majority of the long term player base....since there doesn't seem to be a flood of new blood, doesn't that demonstrate a bigger problem???
Let me try to help you understanding that the biggest problem is the dwingling number of players.
Do you really think BS is running Ywainn for 2-3 more years, for maybe 600 ppl (300eu and 300 us primetime) where half of them is that salty and toxic like in this thread? I wouldn`t do that, you wouldn`t do that.
We can stick our bp`s where the sun don`t shine if they have to close the server.
I get your point about the lack of communication, no prob. But all i see is ppl bitching about bp`s, noone is bitching about that Endless Conquest will release in the first half of 2019. Are they blind?
@Stoertebecker But.... if you..... did read.....then you...... know...... that I have..... ummmmm....... Brought those points..... ehhhhh....... up.......
Your entire argument is literally part of my argument. Yes while CU is only beta 1 and will be a while before full release, there will be a player base for it. The population is in fact dwindling fast, Hell last night, on a Sat, at 11pm est there was maybe 2 FGH out running. The BP thing, is part of that reason, the reason people are leaving. And I have brought up Endless Conquest.
As well as buggs, last night running, literally every single port from safe port we had someone get stuck after porting.... Is this a hib only issue or does that happen on mid/alb as well? For real fix that with a hot fix please.
@Staticc You are 1 from...how many players? Now we are 2
All i`m going to say is that some (or many) ppl may have the wrong priorities in bitching around the bush.
This game is nothing without a number of players, without a game you can make a sreenshot of your collected bps [edited]
It seems that this bp issue is the most important point atm, bitching here, in ts, in discord,in /gc, in whatsapp groups... *did you hear? they wanna steal of boutypoints!!!*.
Or this missing name-change <<<<very, very important point
Don`t blame BS if you were so endlessly dumb and name your toon *Icumonatableanddielaughing*.
And about the EC-delay? *Endlos Conquest? I don`t care, i`m playing solo, i don`t need othere players. But remove remedy from assassins!!!!*
Sometimes i just wanna give someone a high 5...with a chair...in the face.
The fact that people are complaining about BPs when endless conquest got pushed back basically 6+ months is hilarious. Those BPs and whatever you feel obligated to by having them are useless when there are like 100 people playing. Priorities...
I guess I would have to agree with @smakadop and @Stoertebecker that for me the bp cap/reduction, although frustrating, is minor in the bigger scheme of things.
Hell, I read John's replies where he goes on about how PvE *should* remain a part of the game, and that was enough for me to say "Screw it, these people are inept" and go play something else for a few days. Communication is good, but it also goes two ways. When you come out swinging with what sounds like "many words that mean nothing" political speak, it doesn't really help the case.
Let's break it down...
"PvE should remain part of the game"
- So introduce two new PvE campaigns that are/were largely done by larger BG's wherein you largely just stand around and perform one or two functions as a massive zerg. Good luck having any time to read the text or find much enjoyment in the PvE... a majority of which seems to be just bumping up numbers by a flat % and calling it a day.
- You need(ed) a BG to do them, which seems to ignore the reality of a dwindling population or the fact that people play this game outside of EU/US primetime.
- Disconnects, bugs, the fact you need CSRs/Community reps to seemingly constantly be called on to fix this... no word about that I guess.
- Oh gee, people having trouble finding/filling groups for this? Let's introduce some BP tokens to further reduce the pool of people who need to do this. That will help.
Its minor, and complaining about it seems petty until you toss it into a pile with a few hundred other "WTF are you even thinking?" moments. They want to introduce F2P to bolster numbers, but they seem to consistently make decisions that not only complicate the game instead of streamlining and simplifying but also continue to enrage the existing playerbase.
If we look at live DAoC in a bubble - people aren't terribly happy it seems, and the population is dwindling and shows it. Opening up that bubble - you've got enemies at the gates so to speak with CU and freeshards looking to take a bite out of that existing population - how do you survive? What is the bottom bar for the lowest population they are willing to sustain?
To me, to put it bluntly, it feels like paying a monthly subscription for this quality of service feels more like a charity to keep a game I enjoy on life support rather than paying for something that I actually feel is worthy of it.
Hell, they can't even successfully figure out how to deal with a single gold spammer bot sitting in the relic town for a week. That's promising, isn't it?
People are looking for something to boost confidence in the future of a game already past a point where most games are in the grave and I don't think they're getting it.
nothing to spend my millions of bp before the patch is worth anything.
give us supremacy potions and all that for BP to make it mean anything.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
@Budikah Exactly what I am mean, death by a thousand cuts, and ignoring actual issues.
I complain about the BP because that was the focus, there are literally a thousand other things that are, in fact, more important. They could have simply said, Hey we are reducing the cap, have the players go up in arms about the cap and slash, and then say the cap will be 500k, and not done anything else, and there would have been less complaints, yes there would still be some, but not as many.
And 100% feel like this should be a tax write off for donating to charity rather than paying for quality service.
They should have put in RNG boxes for BPS that could drop cursed/JF stuff, pots and upcoming crafting ingredients if they really wanted people to spend their BP's.
I thought you could use the cursed coins repeatable or atleast x10 charge. Would make it much more useful.
Buy more vault space with BP's!
Please!
With the new "PVE" content and stones and all the items that cannot be stacked. And quest items that cannot be stacked like the aurulites. Crappy design BTW..
Let us buy new vault/bank pages with BP's for now And more chests to the houses. On more floor's!
I love how @Stoertebecker thinks this is toxic by having a discussion. For far too long they have ignored the playerbase and things are getting worse and fast.
I’m pulling for #Daoc but tired of paying for the shell of what was once amazing. F2P will limp things along but it’s most likely too late with CU coming on strong
Let's stay on topic and talk more about daoc shortcomings though. If you like the concept of cu, cool. I think itll be shovelware if it ever actually releases, but I digress.
Pretty sure on topic as discussions regarding the communication. It’s pure fact that CU beta and launch is bearing down on what’s left of the DAOC player-base.
What happens if your return to this game and have over 500K BPS does it get automatically taken away? Oh how the mind wanders about how that will go over with returnees...
Again, your infatuation with an arbitrary number that held no value until now is great. Let people keep their old BPs as "legacy BPs" just so you can keep that useless sense of accomplish. Start everyone at 0 "New BPs". That should shut ya up.
Let's focus on things that matter:
-Daoc "endless conquest" campaign
-more cash shop options
-how daoc devs are spending time
-actually modernizing the game as much as you can
-alternate server (MJ promised one of those once --it got delayed into never existing. Lol)
-quality of life in daoc
-pick something else important
Not MJs "endless delays" campaign. BUT hey, at least he keeps telling you that things have been delayed at least once a week for 4 or 5 years!
Edit: yes. Daoc devs need to communicate more. I get that. We were promised dev streams at one point iirc.
BS needs to deliver more on more promises. That's my only gripe.
Catching up on the reading material...I am curious as to the ban hammers that have happened in this thread.
The game is hurting, period. BP's is one of a long list of issues, that I see. The selection of 'choices' in which to cash in my bp's before they are removed from me, is pretty sad. Heck, I would have been more excited if I could purchase mystery boxes for whatever amount, and get a surprise out of the box. Instead, I dropped a million bp's on receiving a giant finger (which is apt really), which I then turned to give away.
I certainly don't have the answers to helping fix this game from it's decline. However, what I do know, is if you keep on ignoring, making changes that are not explained and/or communicated to your remaining player base; you are going to alienate that player base.
Let's stay on topic and talk more about daoc shortcomings though. If you like the concept of cu, cool. I think itll be shovelware if it ever actually releases, but I digress.
You know that it`s nearly the same that people thought as they heared of something like daoc releasing back in 2001? Have you seen screens from DAoC Beta? I was there and it was fuggly, never thought i`ll be playing this fuggly game 17y later. If you have some deeper insight about the future, let us know.
I tend to look at track records.
MJs history:
Toa - huge success.
Origins - great job.
Warhammer - yeeeaahhhh...
Let's just be honest and say that since hes trying to reinvent his own wheel, and is 4 years later than expected, but you're so desperate for that wheel, that you'll ignore all of his short comings. At the same time, you'll hold the same short comings against BS, because theres no bias in their favor. You can easily bring up any new MMO, but dont because you have your emotions, and probably money(lol) invested in CU. Hes the model of overselling and underdelivering, which seems to have stuck around ummm...here...(sorry) as well
Honestly the alb classes need some love versus those Thanes. If the albs continue to lose and rescu's bg folds then Midgard has nothing to fight on USA primetime.
It will be devastating.
"I think what he is doing is good. For a long time Albs not have very good leaders. Natebruner is perfect, his accuracy, his pushing"
HERORIUS
"Nate calling out fights in the Alb public bg has been a recent source of entertainment for me, most of those folks have never heard anyone call targets during US prime." Teddie
"First off I am pretty sure most Mids agree that Albs previous leaders were weak and Nate is actually bringing out action." Impounded
Don't make any changes to BP's or the items you can buy with them. Leave them as is.
Institute the new currency, Valor. Have it earned like BP's were. Going forward you will no longer earn BP's but earn Valor. New items are able to be purchased with only Valor. Everyone starts on even footing for new currency and new items.
This accomplishes the mission of not stripping players for things they have earned, and instituting new RVR rewards for gear and other items by participating in RVR.
If players want to brag about their amount of BP's and not have them all taken away, they can still have the number to view on their character sheet, and can still purchase the same item's they currently can. Before players mention they have been asking for things to buy with BP's that are useful forever, I do realize this. I also realize you can ask for something, but not be given it. That is how life works.
Comments
However, I am not going to sit around and cheer-lead from the side when I see something that I totally disagree with, for whatever reason. The other posters have said it well, it's a slap in the face to suggest what they are going to do with the BP's, regardless of whether they are useful or not now. Clearly something got through, as the grab bag that Friday, changed it to allowing players to purchase items before deleting the bp's. (goodness, in what game do the devs go and delete people's stuff?? I know of only when they were obtained through cheating, bugs etc. not through actual legitimate game play).
Why the forums are here, to discuss things.
They touched on the types of items @Staticc. They didn't give the exact items but they did say it would be OW, Curse, Frozen, etc.... But who know's what the final product will be.
All I am getting at is lets reserve the rage for when the actual patch comes out and we actually see and experience the changes. Most of the hate was over the cap/strip of bp's and they have already stated that they are looking at that cap again. As many have stated, I think they are making it too difficult on themselves. Leave the bp's the way they are. The people that have tons of bp's saved up more than likely won't be needing any new template gear and the stuff isn't tradeable so I don't see the issue. I also agree that a merchant would be a much more simple method rather than putting together several things and crafting an item.
Now I can back you fully on this post!
Unfortunately there's a multi-factorial of variables additionally causing people to be frustrated. Current prime time populations can barely hold 800 players during weekends. The market is barren for these end-game pve items that weren't even supposed to be game changing in the first place, because of that templates cost 1000+pp or a month+ of game play hoping you can log in and stay in during pve raids.
Bugs are out of control but being worked on. The devs and BS had roughly been silent regarding 1.125 for months with zero updates and feed back until the producers letter dropped which was a huge mistake. Then once the producers letter dropped it was this mangled mess of half thought up ideas that hardly made comprehensible sense. Most of the rage and backlash was simply the tipping point of what has been building since 1.124. Now with the delay of 1.125 and many features that players (current and potential returners) had been hoping for the level of patience is growing thinner.
I can state that these grandiose complicated changes BS has been implementing and, from the looks of 1.125, are still attempting to implement are getting old, fast. Continual assassin revamps, class balance changes, pet overhauls, necro changes - these were all things that could've been done on a smaller scale with potentially a much better outcome, in my opinion.
Micro changes and micro hotfixes should be prioritized over a "major" patch. Things like crashing to desktop bugs, item clicking crash bugs, quest journal bugs etc etc are things that shouldn't require an annual patch to fix, these should be done at least bi-monthly.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
they taking away something that has been useless since like the beginning of daoc
just proves people will bitch and cry about anything
no one cares how many bps u got, no one is ever going to know how many bps you got, and 1 day u will quit and or sell and when you think back on daoc how many bp's you had is prob not gonna even come to mind lol..
and how many bps you get for a kill ? barely any ? u can go do 1 dock quest with bugane and get like 5k bps, get a million in a week running that ****, bps have been useless and in huge free abundance for a LONG time
qq all you want about what makes you unhappy with the game, but bounty points ? seriously ? come on now..
least now you will actualy be able to benefit from bp's...and your upset ? I don't get it, id rather have 0 bps and be able to start benefiting/profiting off my bp's then have a 1million piled up with nothing to use them on
pretty sure if someone says anyone lfg ? and you /send them saying your class and how many bounty points you have, they probably wont be sending you and invite^^ lol
its like yall qqing they gonna remove copper, cant do **** with copper anyway, but yall like oooo that's bullshit, I had 99c saved up wtf
Hue did you not read anything in the last 3 pages?
/sigh
Tl;dr - Don't take away something a player has earned simply on a whim because it fits your current idea.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Okay I'll break this down for you:
crying about bounty points is a fking joke, they have been like utterly useless forever - People have been asking for years to make BP's more useful. Just because they're 'useless' as you state doesn't mean people don't want to use what they've earned.
they taking away something that has been useless since like the beginning of daoc - Please see above
just proves people will bitch and cry about anything - I believe anyone would be upset on the concept of losing anything they rightfully have earned.
no one cares how many bps u got, no one is ever going to know how many bps you got, and 1 day u will quit and or sell and when you think back on daoc how many bp's you had is prob not gonna even come to mind lol.. - Please read above. According to your logic you then wouldn't mind if BS eliminated your plat and rps then because "...how many bp's you had is prob not gonna even come to mind lol"
and how many bps you get for a kill ? barely any ? u can go do 1 dock quest with bugane and get like 5k bps, get a million in a week running that ****, bps have been useless and in huge free abundance for a LONG time - That's trying to compare something that has been earned over years of gameplay to something that may be earned in the future. Not comparable.
qq all you want about what makes you unhappy with the game, but bounty points ? seriously ? come on now.. - Please see above. It's the principal of the matter, people with self respect and admiration for accomplishments won't sit lightly and be disrespected.
least now you will actualy be able to benefit from bp's...and your upset ? I don't get it, id rather have 0 bps and be able to start benefiting/profiting off my bp's then have a 1million piled up with nothing to use them on - Don't generalize how you feel regarding the situation as to how others should feel.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
its very hard for me to understand why people would care about bp's or think they have any important considering they never have, but I suppose others might care, just putting my opinion anyway, still love all my bp liking frands ! ;p
Lmao /hugs okay fair enough. I put some alternative opinions a post above to elaborate on at least why I and others that feel the same way as I do care
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Agreed 100% on this!! It does make me wonder why a change like making the zone buggane is in give credit for bugganes in the entire zone was needed to be done via a big patch like 1.125. That is something that should have been put in when it was ready. Things like game crashing bugs and just general bugs also need to be looked at heavily before implementing game changing issues. The problem with Dream Conqueror band dropping its buff if you change out ANY bracer comes to mind.
I'm all about constructive criticism and just as you posted, I also think getting that feedback before release can mitigate a lot of issues. My only problem was the amount of vitriol spewed over these announced changes. Anyone pointing out that instead of doing crafting and getting 3-4 items to make an item, that it would be much easier to put a merchant in is providing constructive criticism. I'm all for that. People saying they don't need a cap/strip of bp's because these things aren't tradeable is a great idea. However, saying the game is dead and you are quitting the game forever because this patch will kill the game is a bit overboard. Sadly, I have seen several of these posts since the announcement of 1.125.
On a side note, this may be why BS doesn't communicate the most with us players. Anytime they do most people just complain non-stop about it rather than trying to have an open conversation with constructive criticism.
But yes, at the end of the day, if these potential notes go in as listed, my 3 subs, and I know of 5 others (3 of which have already quit in the past week) will terminate. Thats a FG, that is literally 1 FG missing in RvR. And thats not even addressing the community aspect of the game.
My sub may not mean much to you now, but when there is 1 less FG to fight, it might mean something to you then...
Like I posted earlier, I legit have seen many people complain about how this game is too hard and in that same post heard many people complain that it is too easy. If something that should be that obvious is debated about then how is BS supposed to try and please everyone?
Any community facing position gets crap dealing with the crazies. It's up to the company to decide if they throw the baby out with the bathwater or not.
Outside of the constantly negative actors in the community, I think players expect more. This game has a small community and for a game this old to still exist as a paid service is pretty rare. People aren't happy with the style of communication. I appreciate that the community leads are active here - but at times it feels placating. People are curious as to what direction things are going in - they're curious as to why change X, Y, or Z was made. Maybe there is a perfectly viable explanation on the back end that isn't immediately visible up front, but if nobody is going to fill people in as to why they'll just start making assumptions.
All that aside, the vultures are out there circling. You e got CU coming up, as well as a beta for another DAoC venue somewhere ahead. Population is already low enough to cause concern for many people and there are two immediate potential drains dead ahead in the coming months.
I think people want strong and clear answers and logic. People want bugs fixed sooner than later. While some are clearly upset at name changes - I'd wager most people would rather get stuff that is already done/more easily done implemented separately from the next changes if at all possible.
... and then the F2P talk is it's own looming beast with differing levels of hope attached to it. Inviting people in for F2P currently to me seems like having a house party in an unfinished house where you still have open holes in the floor - almost in a literal sense with how often people get stuck in geometry/fall through the ground into the ocean during EV porting... and the /stuck option doesn't even seem to work half the time.
So people are going to be salty. They see looming threats to the ongoing population stability and their confidence is wavering. They see F2P and wonder if new players will even endure the odd complexities of DAoC - and then they see Broadsword adding in one system requested, with what is subjectively more complexity added on top of it.
On top of all of that, the only thing that seems to make waves with anything anymore is mass outrage. Love it or hate it, results are results. So, that's what people do.
As far as the game being too easy - it's hit or miss. If you've been playing DAoC for years, yeah, it's probably easy. If not, then mileage may vary. If you are used to playing modern games, going back to DAoC is probably like walking into a brick wall at times.
So charge an amount that's equal to the time it takes for a staffer to make the manual change. The players that want this are willing to spend money to make it happen; you also don't need to make it an instant thing. A 96+ hour turnaround time is totally acceptable, IMO.
Just like Vanilla WOW gutted DAOC following the TOA fiasco, CU has the potential to finish off DAOC.
Most of us that are left paying and playing and stil actually engaged in the conversation we are DAOC.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Would have loved even more a name change though.
HERORIUS
"Nate calling out fights in the Alb public bg has been a recent source of entertainment for me, most of those folks have never heard anyone call targets during US prime." Teddie
"First off I am pretty sure most Mids agree that Albs previous leaders were weak and Nate is actually bringing out action." Impounded
Discord me: Natebruner#3781
CU is around the corner? In which world are you living?
It is Beta1 start soon, a very very basic beta and the servers will not be up 24/7.
It`ll take 1,5y from now to release, minimum. That isn`t soon.
Yes, the Beta will drain some ppl...for some hours of beta-testing, not playing a game.
Time runs short for Broadsword, thats for sure. The delay of Endless Conquest and moving a release somewhere into the first half of 2019 is a major mistake. We need more players now, within the next 3-4 month.
That should be on highest priority, not this BP-crap, RvR-improvements, fluffstuff etcetc.
I don`t get it..ppl are crying in selfishness about bountypoints that were nearly worthless, but about one of the main problems....silence.
So what do you all want? MoV, Cursed Gauntlets and Cursed Sets for 50k bp each piece and tradeable?
They`ll be worthless with 100 players at primetime in each realm (maybe soon).
Let me try to help you understanding that the biggest problem is the dwingling number of players.
Do you really think BS is running Ywainn for 2-3 more years, for maybe 600 ppl (300eu and 300 us primetime) where half of them is that salty and toxic like in this thread? I wouldn`t do that, you wouldn`t do that.
We can stick our bp`s where the sun don`t shine if they have to close the server.
I get your point about the lack of communication, no prob. But all i see is ppl bitching about bp`s, noone is bitching about that Endless Conquest will release in the first half of 2019. Are they blind?
The lack of communication is unter aller Sau.
Your entire argument is literally part of my argument. Yes while CU is only beta 1 and will be a while before full release, there will be a player base for it. The population is in fact dwindling fast, Hell last night, on a Sat, at 11pm est there was maybe 2 FGH out running. The BP thing, is part of that reason, the reason people are leaving. And I have brought up Endless Conquest.
As well as buggs, last night running, literally every single port from safe port we had someone get stuck after porting.... Is this a hib only issue or does that happen on mid/alb as well? For real fix that with a hot fix please.
All i`m going to say is that some (or many) ppl may have the wrong priorities in bitching around the bush.
This game is nothing without a number of players, without a game you can make a sreenshot of your collected bps [edited]
It seems that this bp issue is the most important point atm, bitching here, in ts, in discord,in /gc, in whatsapp groups... *did you hear? they wanna steal of boutypoints!!!*.
Or this missing name-change <<<<very, very important point
Don`t blame BS if you were so endlessly dumb and name your toon *Icumonatableanddielaughing*.
And about the EC-delay? *Endlos Conquest? I don`t care, i`m playing solo, i don`t need othere players. But remove remedy from assassins!!!!*
Sometimes i just wanna give someone a high 5...with a chair...in the face.
Make a Return to Camelot Event...soon !
Hell, I read John's replies where he goes on about how PvE *should* remain a part of the game, and that was enough for me to say "Screw it, these people are inept" and go play something else for a few days. Communication is good, but it also goes two ways. When you come out swinging with what sounds like "many words that mean nothing" political speak, it doesn't really help the case.
Let's break it down...
"PvE should remain part of the game"
- So introduce two new PvE campaigns that are/were largely done by larger BG's wherein you largely just stand around and perform one or two functions as a massive zerg. Good luck having any time to read the text or find much enjoyment in the PvE... a majority of which seems to be just bumping up numbers by a flat % and calling it a day.
- You need(ed) a BG to do them, which seems to ignore the reality of a dwindling population or the fact that people play this game outside of EU/US primetime.
- Disconnects, bugs, the fact you need CSRs/Community reps to seemingly constantly be called on to fix this... no word about that I guess.
- Oh gee, people having trouble finding/filling groups for this? Let's introduce some BP tokens to further reduce the pool of people who need to do this. That will help.
Its minor, and complaining about it seems petty until you toss it into a pile with a few hundred other "WTF are you even thinking?" moments. They want to introduce F2P to bolster numbers, but they seem to consistently make decisions that not only complicate the game instead of streamlining and simplifying but also continue to enrage the existing playerbase.
If we look at live DAoC in a bubble - people aren't terribly happy it seems, and the population is dwindling and shows it. Opening up that bubble - you've got enemies at the gates so to speak with CU and freeshards looking to take a bite out of that existing population - how do you survive? What is the bottom bar for the lowest population they are willing to sustain?
To me, to put it bluntly, it feels like paying a monthly subscription for this quality of service feels more like a charity to keep a game I enjoy on life support rather than paying for something that I actually feel is worthy of it.
Hell, they can't even successfully figure out how to deal with a single gold spammer bot sitting in the relic town for a week. That's promising, isn't it?
People are looking for something to boost confidence in the future of a game already past a point where most games are in the grave and I don't think they're getting it.
give us supremacy potions and all that for BP to make it mean anything.
I complain about the BP because that was the focus, there are literally a thousand other things that are, in fact, more important. They could have simply said, Hey we are reducing the cap, have the players go up in arms about the cap and slash, and then say the cap will be 500k, and not done anything else, and there would have been less complaints, yes there would still be some, but not as many.
And 100% feel like this should be a tax write off for donating to charity rather than paying for quality service.
I thought you could use the cursed coins repeatable or atleast x10 charge. Would make it much more useful.
Yes i know. I never stated they gave the items?
Please!
With the new "PVE" content and stones and all the items that cannot be stacked. And quest items that cannot be stacked like the aurulites. Crappy design BTW..
Let us buy new vault/bank pages with BP's for now
I’m pulling for #Daoc but tired of paying for the shell of what was once amazing. F2P will limp things along but it’s most likely too late with CU coming on strong
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Cry about the dwingling playerbase and that BS is doing nothing... that would make sense.
CU Beta starts tomorrow. Do you know what i really like around CU? The form of communication.
Let's stay on topic and talk more about daoc shortcomings though. If you like the concept of cu, cool. I think itll be shovelware if it ever actually releases, but I digress.
What happens if your return to this game and have over 500K BPS does it get automatically taken away? Oh how the mind wanders about how that will go over with returnees...
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Let's focus on things that matter:
-Daoc "endless conquest" campaign
-more cash shop options
-how daoc devs are spending time
-actually modernizing the game as much as you can
-alternate server (MJ promised one of those once --it got delayed into never existing. Lol)
-quality of life in daoc
-pick something else important
Not MJs "endless delays" campaign. BUT hey, at least he keeps telling you that things have been delayed at least once a week for 4 or 5 years!
Edit: yes. Daoc devs need to communicate more. I get that. We were promised dev streams at one point iirc.
BS needs to deliver more on more promises. That's my only gripe.
The game is hurting, period. BP's is one of a long list of issues, that I see. The selection of 'choices' in which to cash in my bp's before they are removed from me, is pretty sad. Heck, I would have been more excited if I could purchase mystery boxes for whatever amount, and get a surprise out of the box. Instead, I dropped a million bp's on receiving a giant finger (which is apt really), which I then turned to give away.
I certainly don't have the answers to helping fix this game from it's decline. However, what I do know, is if you keep on ignoring, making changes that are not explained and/or communicated to your remaining player base; you are going to alienate that player base.
You know that it`s nearly the same that people thought as they heared of something like daoc releasing back in 2001? Have you seen screens from DAoC Beta? I was there and it was fuggly, never thought i`ll be playing this fuggly game 17y later. If you have some deeper insight about the future, let us know.
MJs history:
Toa - huge success.
Origins - great job.
Warhammer - yeeeaahhhh...
Let's just be honest and say that since hes trying to reinvent his own wheel, and is 4 years later than expected, but you're so desperate for that wheel, that you'll ignore all of his short comings. At the same time, you'll hold the same short comings against BS, because theres no bias in their favor. You can easily bring up any new MMO, but dont because you have your emotions, and probably money(lol) invested in CU. Hes the model of overselling and underdelivering, which seems to have stuck around ummm...here...(sorry) as well
It will be devastating.
HERORIUS
"Nate calling out fights in the Alb public bg has been a recent source of entertainment for me, most of those folks have never heard anyone call targets during US prime." Teddie
"First off I am pretty sure most Mids agree that Albs previous leaders were weak and Nate is actually bringing out action." Impounded
Discord me: Natebruner#3781
You should do your homework better. Well, at least you tried. But thats going offtopic.....
Excellent, in depth rebuttals.
You've got nothing.
Thanks for playing.
They're watching you, now.
Don't make any changes to BP's or the items you can buy with them. Leave them as is.
Institute the new currency, Valor. Have it earned like BP's were. Going forward you will no longer earn BP's but earn Valor. New items are able to be purchased with only Valor. Everyone starts on even footing for new currency and new items.
This accomplishes the mission of not stripping players for things they have earned, and instituting new RVR rewards for gear and other items by participating in RVR.
If players want to brag about their amount of BP's and not have them all taken away, they can still have the number to view on their character sheet, and can still purchase the same item's they currently can. Before players mention they have been asking for things to buy with BP's that are useful forever, I do realize this. I also realize you can ask for something, but not be given it. That is how life works.