@Jorma Talks of a new server have been going on for years. There has been zero measurable progress since (i.e. Broadsword hasn't shown us anything regarding its development). No. I'm not an employee. If indeed there is urgency to release a classic server in order to keep the development team from tanking, then there should be at least some progress updates. We have zero. They have only said that they are working on it which is ambiguous. Working on a new client? Working on a custom patch setting for the classic ruleset? Fixing old bugs? Adding some QoL? Old archery? We have no clue because there is no transparency.
The lack of transparency is worrying. But how do you come to the conclution the games survival is in good order. Could it just not be annonced that the game is being shut down at a specific date (when the last running subscription runs out) and close possibilty to resubscribe, just shut down all services after the last subscription has ran out and close it down completely? Why even talk about a alternate "classic" ruleset server at this point since most people attending these forums is already subscribed to Ywain, we are a few exceptions but I doubt many of us will start subscribing until the alternate server is up and running. It might not happen, and then I will not subscribe and not really care what happens to the official version of DAoC, but I do have my doubts it will survive without more subscribers and I think it will be hard to find them with only Ywain and Gaheris. Since there is a lack of transperency on what is going on there is no way of knowing if the game will be kept alive or not, without a new server that draws more subscribers to the game, we can only speculate and that is what we are doing. Saying there is no evidence it isn't self sustaining doesn't mean there are evidence it is, so it is all speculation.
@Grizlie You're right. Live suffered a large blow back in January 2019. I was there when the population dropped steeply. They attempted to address that issue with Endless Conquest; however, it didn't work as well as those of us who stayed behind hoped (as expected). The population is not quite back to where it was, but it's close. They were worried in 2019. There was no April Fools patch notes. That never happened before. There was in 2020 and likely will be in 2021. Considering there is no legal means for BS to attack the freeshards, I suspect the classic server is their answer. It has little to do with keeping the game running and more to do with taking back the players that were "stolen" from them. Hopefully they learned that what keeps the freeshards alive has nothing to do with old PvE grinds.
It would be great if they could attract players from the free shards back to a live server, I think many others that don't want to play the free shards would be interested in returning as well if the alternate "classic" ruleset server is done well. I personally believe it has to do with keeping the game running and I hope they manage to do so.
I think the simplest explanations are the likeliest. They stupidly mentioned an alternative server 5 years ago or whatever thinking they could pull it off with ease and attract a player base that might be interested in that sort of thing and make extra money/improve the game experience in the process. They quickly learned the alternative server was a way bigger pain in the ass than anticipated and that they didn’t really need it to remain financially solvent. This is where they unsurprisingly stopped communicating the idea.
Freeshard then comes along and takes away hundreds of players and establishes a server with 1500+ daily for two years. Ywain continues in its downtrend toward insolvency. Broadsword sees a point of no return on the horizon and says, “hey guys! Remember that alternative server?? We’re working on it after all!”
Someone there clearly subscribes to the silly philosophy of “under promise/over deliver” or whatever which is why no one ever hears from them. The problem is they promise nothing and deliver nothing as well. Their customers are grown ups. They can handle an honest discussion about things and believe it or not might be able to offer up some good advice. Gaming is weird like that. It’s a product that consumers themselves try to help maintain free of charge.
@Jorma Look at the history of events that led to WAR being shutdown and Mythic collapsing. DAoC hasn't reached that point despite the low population. If indeed a new server was necessary to keep the game running as a whole, then they should be reaching out to all prospective players. Have you received an e-mail inquiring about what you would like in a classic server? I have numerous accounts, not all subbed, and haven't received such notice. It's a bit strange if the goal is to keep the game from sinking by attracting as many ex-players as possible but not reaching out to them to ensure their return. Either they're operating under the worst business model imaginable or they're seeking to increase their profit margins slightly with minimum effort. I'm leaning toward the latter but the former is also viable considering their historical decisions. Again, time will tell.
I played WAR one month, didn't like it and stopped paying for my subscription and stopped following the development of that game altogether, don't know what happened with the development of WAR after that at all. I can't compare what happened to WAR and what has happened to DAoC since I have no interest in WAR or what happened to it.
I do believe Mythic was sold at some point, not sure if Mythic still owned the rights to both games at that point or if DAoC was sold separately. If WAR and DAoC were sold together I do not know what EA decided to do with the two games or what resources they put into either of them.
I would imagen that if EA bought both of the games they saw something that differed from WoW, in an important way, in DAoC but did not see it in WAR (number of factions maybe). If that different part could attract players they could still make a profit. Maybe try to develop that unique part for 10 or so years and see were we are at on MMORPG scale of things and decide what to do then.
The time frame EA would have set on for development and evaluation could be anything, I just put 10 years in there because it is all guess work.
At some point companies can´t continue with projects that doesn't show promise, I belive DAoC needs to start showing promise soon to not be a cancelled project for EA.
This is of course pure speculation, but speculation is all we have seen.
@Jorma You should inform yourself before assuming it is all speculation. EA bought Mythic Entertainment back in 2006 and funneled a lot of resources into the development of WAR. The game was shutdown due to its lack of return. EA didn't have to funnel many resources into DAoC as it was an already established game. Same goes for Ultima Online which is often forgotten by this community. There was a brief period in 2013/2014 where it was likely that DAoC would have shutdown with the collapse of the Mythic team when EA was cutting its losses. Broadsword is a subset of the original Mythic team, just rebranded. They managed to consolidate themselves sufficiently to keep the game supported along with Ultima Online. So DAoC isn't the only game generating revenue here. My point in bringing up WAR is that EA is quick to shutdown anything that drains on their resources without a return. DAoC and UO haven't survived this long because EA sees potential in them. They are simply turning a profit, likely small in comparison to their other titles, that is sufficient for them to keep the games on their books. If this was in jeopardy, then much more radical moves by Broadsword would likely be at play. This isn't the case.
How are you sure it is still turning a profit, the subscription cost has not increased but there is the normal inflation that they have to keep up with to not start loosing money even if the same amount of USD falls into their chest every month.
What are the radical moves they would have to take to keep the servers alive? A new server with a different ruleset or isn't that radical enough?
Maybe the Mithril shop has increased the revenue more than less subrictions have decreased it. Do we have any numbers from the different revenue sources over the last 5 years to compare?
@Jorma The mithril shop was a natural implementation when they were working on EC. It's very easy for players with subs to spend more in mithril than the sub costs. Literally any MMO with a cosmetic shop demonstrates this, especially the full on F2P ones. They keep adding to it because it works and solves the inflation issue that a fixed sub has.
A radical move would have been a full F2P system coupled with a new server or server reset during a Steam release in an expedited fashion. Only one of those things happened and it isn't even true F2P. The others are in limbo...so much for urgency.
To be clear, I'm not opposed to a new server. But don't think the game needs it to survive. A classic server isn't going to "save" DAoC. The developers have already stated that Ywain is the game. A classic server is just a plus one, not a solution.
@Jorma The mithril shop was a natural implementation when they were working on EC. It's very easy for players with subs to spend more in mithril than the sub costs. Literally any MMO with a cosmetic shop demonstrates this, especially the full on F2P ones. They keep adding to it because it works and solves the inflation issue that a fixed sub has.
A radical move would have been a full F2P system coupled with a new server or server reset during a Steam release in an expedited fashion. Only one of those things happened and it isn't even true F2P. The others are in limbo...so much for urgency.
So if the new alternate "classic" ruleset server is released we would have F2P, a new server and cash shop for in game goods. Which then would constitute the radical move you are talking about with addition of an in game goods cash shop.
To be clear, I'm not opposed to a new server. But don't think the game needs it to survive. A classic server isn't going to "save" DAoC. The developers have already stated that Ywain is the game. A classic server is just a plus one, not a solution.
I personally think Ywain and Gaheris would struggle and eventually be closed down, I don't think it would last many more years unless more people start paying for subscriptions, retail goods and mithril shop purchases.
Both of us are of course only speculating here and neither of us knows who is closest to the thruth, EA and Broadsword are the only ones with enough insight to know.
Of course they have to calm the existing players on Ywain and assure them that they are not cancelling that server for the benefit of the new server. If a new server could revive the game it would also help with the development of the two now existing servers, the service is not at it´s best at the moment so Ywain and Gaheris would probably be better off if more people would start paying for subscriptions, a win win situation.
I think Broadsword has been very clear from the beginning that the first step to releasing a new server is to ensure that Ywain is in a healthy condition. They have spent a long time trying to achieve this, and as I see it they have not succeeded, but have decided to go ahead with the new server anyway. They have only recently begun actual work on the new server.
I'm surprised Broadsword recently used the term "classic". This is such a loaded term and people are reading a lot into it. Most noticably, it seems most people are assuming a patch rollback. I think there are good reasons why that is unlikely. #1 We've had official classic servers before. They did not include a patch rollback. #2 Broadsword has very limited resources. A rollback could be a can-of-worms they don't want to open.
...but most importantly... #3 As the new server progresses in expansions (based on player voting), do you expect it to progress in patches as well?
@Jorma You're misunderstanding me. The radical move would have to be immediate, not years apart. You're also ignoring the Steam release which would have been huge advertising for DAoC. These things have to be linked together in short order to drive momentum if the goal is to "save" the game with an influx of players. Yet, the bucket continues to get kicked down the road for an indefinite amount of time. Why do you believe there is a sense of urgency when there is no momentum to increase subscriptions?
Also, you continue to ignore the history of Mythic's collapse. It was obvious when Mythic was going down. It will be obvious if Broadsword is closing. They are the same team, albeit smaller, owned by the same company. Why would it be different? They made it abundantly clear they will not jeopardize Ywain for another server hence the consideration for a seasonal server as opposed to a straight classic server. Why do you think they are lying? Did you forget that Ywain is their vision of the game? Does it make it the best version? No. It's completely subjective unless you're using population as a metric. But then you may as well scrap DAoC altogether as the game will never be as popular as it once was in the early 2000's.
Edit: on the "radical move" part, advertising could have taken place by having a popular Twitch streamer or YouTuber advocate for the game. Again, this isn't happening...
SI-TOA BUT with Artifacts and MLs disabled, got no problem with melee speed and cast speed but damage, style damage, spell damage and pierce? nah, keep it.
I saw the word "classic". I saw it would be supported by those who have the license for the game. Therefore I gained a hype b**er.
The hype b**er would probably disappear quickly if I see something that doesn't resemble actual classic in most ways. Some of you may not care about my hype b**er, however I arrived at these boards with it, because they did in fact use the word "classic", the company with the license for this game.
Also BS, consider this please. Find a person who could come up with a unique chain quest that needs atleast 4 people to complete. This person wouldn't have to be paid any money, and all you would need is someone who is employed by EA/BS to insert the quest assets.
Design the chain quests to be completed within 2 hours gameplay. These quests would give large chunks of xp and rewards. There would still be grinding to be done within the zones of classic, however every 10 levels players could pickup the chain quests, and know full well that they need atleast 4 players to complete the quests to end of the chain.
If you want to bring back subs this is how you do it. The chain quests could change seasonally, but still maintain alot of what classic was.
Except Kroko is right. If it's not the classic you want, then you won't play. That's exactly why new classic servers start out with a huge population and then tank hard across 6 months. Between nostalgia wearing off and finding something wrong with the server all contribute to this issue. A seasonal server might be better simply for this reason.
P.S. If people truly cared about the official license, then they would be subbed even if they don't play on Ywain or Gaheris since the announcement of another server.
I think Broadsword has been very clear from the beginning that the first step to releasing a new server is to ensure that Ywain is in a healthy condition. They have spent a long time trying to achieve this, and as I see it they have not succeeded, but have decided to go ahead with the new server anyway. They have only recently begun actual work on the new server.
We do not know when they started work on the new server but I would guess they have been working on it to a lesser extent for at least a year. I agree that BS have not achieved to ensure that Ywain is in a healty condition and this is why I think the game will have a hard time to survive with only Ywain and Gaheris up and running.
I'm surprised Broadsword recently used the term "classic". This is such a loaded term and people are reading a lot into it. Most noticably, it seems most people are assuming a patch rollback. I think there are good reasons why that is unlikely.
#1 We've had official classic servers before. They did not include a patch rollback.
I think one of the mistakes of the former classic servers was that it was not a rollback, regarding things that should have been a rollback. I am not saying I want a full rollback server but I want the changes to the ruleset to be others than what they did in the earlier tries on the classic server.
...but most importantly... #3 As the new server progresses in expansions (based on player voting), do you expect it to progress in patches as well?
We have not heard what their final plans with the alternate ruleset server is yet. I would not mind progressing thru the patches but only as long as there is no:
Master Level Abilities
ToA stats
Stat caps
Mythyrians that adds anything in the RvR zones
Races or classes from patches after SI
Champion Levels
Labyrinth of the Minotaur (or at least not the RvR zone, Passage of Conflict, Darkness Falls, Battlegrounds and Frontiers are enough)
@Jorma You're misunderstanding me. The radical move would have to be immediate, not years apart. You're also ignoring the Steam release which would have been huge advertising for DAoC. These things have to be linked together in short order to drive momentum if the goal is to "save" the game with an influx of players. Yet, the bucket continues to get kicked down the road for an indefinite amount of time. Why do you believe there is a sense of urgency when there is no momentum to increase subscriptions?
I though you meant the Steam release was only connected to the reset of a server part. Adverstising would be very good I hope there is a plan for that and funds to achieve it. I belive there is a sense of urgency since there is no sign of more population on Ywain or Gaheris. I believe it is more likely the number of subscriptions will become fewer than it is they will increase unless they find a way to attract subscribers back to the game.
Also, you continue to ignore the history of Mythic's collapse. It was obvious when Mythic was going down. It will be obvious if Broadsword is closing. They are the same team, albeit smaller, owned by the same company. Why would it be different? They made it abundantly clear they will not jeopardize Ywain for another server hence the consideration for a seasonal server as opposed to a straight classic server. Why do you think they are lying? Did you forget that Ywain is their vision of the game? Does it make it the best version? No. It's completely subjective unless you're using population as a metric. But then you may as well scrap DAoC altogether as the game will never be as popular as it once was in the early 2000's.
Why does every step to closure have follow the same pattern every time? I would have been very surprised if they had said that they would put less effort into Ywain since most of the people that are active on the forum is people that play Ywain, would have created some agitated activity I would imagen. A successful alternate ruleset server would possibly increase the resources for Ywain as well as for the other live DAoC servers. Hopefully it will not be a seasonal server I think they risk losing alot of returning subscribers that way. They will probably not achieve the same numbers as in the early 2000's but unless they achieve at least 4 times the numbers there are today I fear they will have to scrap DAoC altogether.
Edit: on the "radical move" part, advertising could have taken place by having a popular Twitch streamer or YouTuber advocate for the game. Again, this isn't happening...
Except Kroko is right. If it's not the classic you want, then you won't play. That's exactly why new classic servers start out with a huge population and then tank hard across 6 months. Between nostalgia wearing off and finding something wrong with the server all contribute to this issue. A seasonal server might be better simply for this reason.
P.S. If people truly cared about the official license, then they would be subbed even if they don't play on Ywain or Gaheris since the announcement of another server.
Why on earth would anyone keep paying subscriptions for a game they don't want to play, gives no incentive at all for the game developer to listen to their subscribers or possible subscribers. Unless they have a server up and running that you want to play on, and are playing on, you should not pay them any subscription fees.
Except Kroko is right. If it's not the classic you want, then you won't play. That's exactly why new classic servers start out with a huge population and then tank hard across 6 months. Between nostalgia wearing off and finding something wrong with the server all contribute to this issue. A seasonal server might be better simply for this reason.
P.S. If people truly cared about the official license, then they would be subbed even if they don't play on Ywain or Gaheris since the announcement of another server.
Why on earth would anyone keep paying subscriptions for a game they don't want to play, gives no incentive at all for the game developer to listen to their subscribers or possible subscribers. Unless they have a server up and running that you want to play on, and are playing on, you should not pay them any subscription fees.
Why on earth would any developer risk resources on a server that no subscriber wants to play? You literally just proved my point that none of you care about the official license. You only care about getting "your" version of classic DAoC. This is a fruitless endeavor.
You literally just proved my point that none of you care about the official license. You only care about getting "your" version of classic DAoC. This is a fruitless endeavor.
Why don't I care about the official license? Because I don't want to pay them for something I don't want?
Of course I want an acceptable version of the classic DAoC, that is why I share my opinions of what I would like to see on an alternate ruleset server and asks other do do so as well. This gives the developers a chance to see what different people would like to see and it might help them to find a way to create a new server that would appeal to as many possible subscribers as possible. Only way I see it being a fruitless endeavor is if the developer completely ignores all information that is available to them and creates something noone or very few people wants, if you think that is how the developers will act then I can see how you deem it a fruitless endeavor. If they do act that way then they will fail with the alternate ruleset server and I think that means DAoC will be closed down by EA.
Why on earth would any developer risk resources on a server that no subscriber wants to play?
Like keeping a failing server alive and trying to change things on that server hoping it will attract more subscribers you mean
Define failing server. I can only name one server with higher population than Ywain and that's only during EU prime time. The rest, including a pure classic server, are dead.
Define failing server. I can only name one server with higher population than Ywain and that's only during EU prime time. The rest, including a pure classic server, are dead.
A server that is dependant on players paying to play the game needs to take the correct development decisions to attract more players, not take development decisions that makes people leave the game. Official servers have taken bad development decisions for a long period of time. I believe that needs to change if DAoC live is going to prolong it's life with any significant amount of time.
The freeshards don't have to do that, the development team can do whatever changes they want if they feel like it, not much money lost for them. From what I understand the freeshards have taken som very questionable development desicions that would not have been accepted by alot of the people that wants to play on an official "classic" server this has made their population dvindle. There is still one of these servers with higher population, during EU prime time, than the server which needs to produce a net income, that makes the server that needs to make a net income a failure.
You literally just proved my point that none of you care about the official license. You only care about getting "your" version of classic DAoC. This is a fruitless endeavor.
Why don't I care about the official license? Because I don't want to pay them for something I don't want?
Of course I want an acceptable version of the classic DAoC, that is why I share my opinions of what I would like to see on an alternate ruleset server and asks other do do so as well. This gives the developers a chance to see what different people would like to see and it might help them to find a way to create a new server that would appeal to as many possible subscribers as possible. Only way I see it being a fruitless endeavor is if the developer completely ignores all information that is available to them and creates something noone or very few people wants, if you think that is how the developers will act then I can see how you deem it a fruitless endeavor. If they do act that way then they will fail with the alternate ruleset server and I think that means DAoC will be closed down by EA.
You've hihglighted it yourself, every server takes a crack at making changes to the game because they want it to be the best it can be for as many people as possible. The main reason why the remaining existing shard has success is because of events, because it's free and because they've made qol changes that tbh, idk why BS didn't apply most of them yet.
There is a reason why every server goes further away from classic as it moves along because over time, the major flaws of classic simply become apparent and changes are required to keep it fun.
You cannot expect someone to keep playing a cleric in a classic ruleset and enjoy themselves. Unless you only play MMOs for socializing and not for the actual gameplay, which I suspect most of the classic players are after.
People still think daoc at launch was this super thought out game. It was developed in like 18 months with a bunch of flaws that were adressed over time.
Did BS screw up things by making ridiculous patches and increasing the gear creep in a game that revolves around player skill and abilities? Hell yeah. Does it mean that we need to go back 20 years to have a good game, no.
You've hihglighted it yourself, every server takes a crack at making changes to the game because they want it to be the best it can be for as many people as possible. The main reason why the remaining existing shard has success is because of events, because it's free and because they've made qol changes that tbh, idk why BS didn't apply most of them yet.
Yes, and changes would be good. BS have seen what changes worked and what changes didn't work, I hope they have learned from past when they launch the new server.
QoL changes I would welcome but I don't want level 50 in a day. Making it possible to get hold of end game gear with an alternate currency, for gold or bounty points I would welcome but it should take some effort to gather enough funds to purchase one piece of end game gear. The idea of being able to reskin items I like.
RA's should be looked at. Using some of the old ones, some of the new ones and could even put some of the Master Level Abilities into the RA-pool, not all of them but some would suit well there.
There is a reason why every server goes further away from classic as it moves along because over time, the major flaws of classic simply become apparent and changes are required to keep it fun.
And I hope BS have learned from the past when they launch the new server.
You cannot expect someone to keep playing a cleric in a classic ruleset and enjoy themselves. Unless you only play MMOs for socializing and not for the actual gameplay, which I suspect most of the classic players are after.
As I have said I would not mind a progression server as long as that server does not have:
Master Level Abilities
ToA stats
Stat caps
Mythyrians that adds anything in the RvR zones
Races or classes from patches after SI
Champion Levels
Labyrinth of the Minotaur (or at least not as a RvR zone, Passage of Conflict, Darkness Falls, Battlegrounds and Frontiers are enough)
Balancing should be done and BS have seen what was done well and what was done poorly, they have every chance in the world to do a better job this time around.
I do not want the characters on the alternate ruleset server to be forcefully transferred to Ywain.
There are more classes than cleric available, you are not forced to play only one class.
People still think daoc at launch was this super thought out game. It was developed in like 18 months with a bunch of flaws that were adressed over time.
I don't know who believes that but I suppose there might be some around. This time around BS have a chance to see if the way the problems were addressed worked or not.
Did BS screw up things by making ridiculous patches and increasing the gear creep in a game that revolves around player skill and abilities? Hell yeah. Does it mean that we need to go back 20 years to have a good game, no.
I don't think an exact replica of patch 1.65 would be perfect, it wouldn't be as bad as Ywain though. But I think there are more people that would return to a "classic" server if the problems that existed back in the day was addressed in a good way.
the only reason i went to the "other server" and would go to another "classic" server would be if they had a 12 hour plus realm timer and the ban board is a nice addition
seems that peeps that got banned on that other server found their way back to the real daoc lol......
I was radaring every time I’d log in in 2016-2017 whenever they “banned” a bunch of people. They sent me an email warning me that I would be banned and I didn’t mind if they did, so i continued to radar for 3 more months until I stopped playing because I didn’t have time anymore.
When I reactivated recently I ran radar again but couldn’t really get it to work properly and didn’t care to.
That pretty much sums up the dev involvement of the game
I was radaring every time I’d log in in 2016-2017 whenever they “banned” a bunch of people. They sent me an email warning me that I would be banned and I didn’t mind if they did, so i continued to radar for 3 more months until I stopped playing because I didn’t have time anymore.
When I reactivated recently I ran radar again but couldn’t really get it to work properly and didn’t care to.
That pretty much sums up the dev involvement of the game
i dont think they should ban a paying account---just remove all the rps on said account
@Jorma What's wrong with these? Other than the initial grind when those expansions came out, I loved (and still do) all the additions.
Master Level Abilities
ToA stats
Stat caps
Mythyrians that adds anything in the RvR zones
Races or classes from patches after SI
Champion Levels
Labyrinth of the Minotaur
Regarding support for the official license, I see it as a common argument as to why an official classic server would somehow be better than what has already been done simply because it's official. These are the same players that currently don't support the game. It doesn't add up. You're not a paying customer, yet want to be treated as such. You're all prospective customers who may give them one or two months of subscriptions before calling foul because it's not what you want (see every server or patch ever). This is all well and good as long as it's not at the expense of the current player base which does keep the official game alive. The classic server is just a +1, not a saving grace. They would have reached out to you all by now if it was a necessity.
PS. Regarding the failed server comment. All that matters is the number of active subs, not the number of active players in the developer's eyes. While I agree that a lower population than a shard isn't great, it's also not a factor of 10 different either. The Live servers need dynamic events to keep things interesting, regardless of whether it's classic or Ywain.
@Shoke LARP alert. If you get banned you don’t even have access to the character anymore, much less the realm points on it.
@puter you don’t seem to get it. They want the people back who aren’t currently paying. They have you and you’re not enough. What’s left of the game has been molded in your image, and I’m sorry but it’s a turn off to the real potential customer base out there that they’re trying to win back.
They are looking for that original Pepsi flavor. You are pineapple Fanta.
@Jorma What's wrong with these? Other than the initial grind when those expansions came out, I loved (and still do) all the additions.
Master Level Abilities
ToA stats
Stat caps
Mythyrians that adds anything in the RvR zones
Races or classes from patches after SI
Champion Levels
Labyrinth of the Minotaur
Some like these additions, many does not like them. I think many would return if those things were not included in this chance to do it all over again.
Regarding support for the official license, I see it as a common argument as to why an official classic server would somehow be better than what has already been done simply because it's official. These are the same players that currently don't support the game. It doesn't add up. You're not a paying customer, yet want to be treated as such. You're all prospective customers who may give them one or two months of subscriptions before calling foul because it's not what you want (see every server or patch ever). This is all well and good as long as it's not at the expense of the current player base which does keep the official game alive. The classic server is just a +1, not a saving grace. They would have reached out to you all by now if it was a necessity.
Simply because it's official? Have never heard anyone say that. An official server do however need to take development decisions that doesn't make the subscribers leave, a freeshard doesn't have to do that since they do not depend on collecting subscription fees. What I am hoping BS will do, is taking much better desicions than has been done before on both Live and freeshards. If they don't the same thing will happen again and I don't think Live will be around much longer. With the accumulated knowledge of what the results of former changes have brought I think they have a good chance do it.
PS. Regarding the failed server comment. All that matters is the number of active subs, not the number of active players in the developer's eyes. While I agree that a lower population than a shard isn't great, it's also not a factor of 10 different either. The Live servers need dynamic events to keep things interesting, regardless of whether it's classic or Ywain.
Yes the number of active subs is important, they are not increasing and they are not on a high enough level for EA to afford them decreasing. Only dynamic events is not enough to bring players back.
@Jorma You didn't answer my question: what's wrong with the expansion content post SI?
Probably need to navigate through this thread again. Also seen it used on reddit as well. It's a strange argument to use entirely.
Not sure why you think subs haven't been increasing. There has been a steady trickle of returning players, especially since Ramik and a couple other players have been streaming consistently. EA doesn't screw around with projects that cost more than they bring in. I can assure you if this was indeed the case, the game would be shut down immediately. Again, we saw that with Warhammer. There is no reason to expect anything different for an older, less popular game.
Not sure why you think subs haven't been increasing. There has been a steady trickle of returning players, especially since Ramik and a couple other players have been streaming consistently. EA doesn't screw around with projects that cost more than they bring in. I can assure you if this was indeed the case, the game would be shut down immediately. Again, we saw that with Warhammer. There is no reason to expect anything different for an older, less popular game.
Regarding the number of active subscriptions we are both just speculating, but the complaints about low population from several active players indicate to me that the amount of active subscriptions isn't increasing.
Maybe EA have agreed to give BS one last shot at increasing the active subscriptions with the alternate "classic" server and if that fails they will shut the game down. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
Edit: Onle someone working at EA in a position that are taking such decisions could assure anyone of how EA is going to act, rest of us can only speculate.
A game with few abilities and no additional changes gets stale. Expansions added additional items and abilities. People left because of how long ToA initially took. If ToA was launched with how easy it is now, not as many would've left
ToA at launch was way too much PvE, it killed the game for me tbh, not being able to attend 8 hours long ML3 raids. Farming Malice scrolls for weeks, etc.
Completing my ToA requirements right now takes roughly 2 hours (getting my MLs, artifacts and leveling them), compared to multiple weeks.
The funny thing is that people want to go back to more PvE, just blows my mind.
I dunno I liked ToA as far as like artifact encounters were concerned. I found the PvE fun as a kid and the items were really rewarding. One of the shard drawbacks is the complete staleness of templates. Ironically, one of the ywain drawbacks is the absolute silliness of templates. Silly things like speed charges and resistance charges make the current game such a crappy experience for returning players that haven't even been gone THAT long.
The ToA zones were also a lot of fun to explore. But the ship of the unknown has sailed.
I dunno I liked ToA as far as like artifact encounters were concerned. I found the PvE fun as a kid and the items were really rewarding. One of the shard drawbacks is the complete staleness of templates. Ironically, one of the ywain drawbacks is the absolute silliness of templates. Silly things like speed charges and resistance charges make the current game such a crappy experience for returning players that haven't even been gone THAT long.
The ToA zones were also a lot of fun to explore. But the ship of the unknown has sailed.
resistance charges were from dragon drops i thought????
Yeah, from what I recall there were things like that dragonscale bracelet but there was at least an accompanied period of downtime unless you had some really unusual template. To my understanding you can just have permanent 36-40% melee resists now with stacking charges and similar or better magic resists. There were also no silly disarm procs and whatever else is in the game now.
Having a hole in your template because you felt other things were more important was kind of a cool thing for the game. It gave it a bit of variability. Now you do the same 322 (-200) damage to every carbon copy of a player that shows up with baseline kings gear. It feels stale sometimes.
How about an in process memory check at load to stop autohotkey, mojo and other 3rd party programs? Takes about 3 lines of code to implement with win api calls. Do you need help insuring a gaming environment that only relies on the game? Is it a game of rules and abilities or who programs ahk scripts the best?
Comments
It would be great if they could attract players from the free shards back to a live server, I think many others that don't want to play the free shards would be interested in returning as well if the alternate "classic" ruleset server is done well. I personally believe it has to do with keeping the game running and I hope they manage to do so.
Freeshard then comes along and takes away hundreds of players and establishes a server with 1500+ daily for two years. Ywain continues in its downtrend toward insolvency. Broadsword sees a point of no return on the horizon and says, “hey guys! Remember that alternative server?? We’re working on it after all!”
Someone there clearly subscribes to the silly philosophy of “under promise/over deliver” or whatever which is why no one ever hears from them. The problem is they promise nothing and deliver nothing as well. Their customers are grown ups. They can handle an honest discussion about things and believe it or not might be able to offer up some good advice. Gaming is weird like that. It’s a product that consumers themselves try to help maintain free of charge.
I do believe Mythic was sold at some point, not sure if Mythic still owned the rights to both games at that point or if DAoC was sold separately. If WAR and DAoC were sold together I do not know what EA decided to do with the two games or what resources they put into either of them.
I would imagen that if EA bought both of the games they saw something that differed from WoW, in an important way, in DAoC but did not see it in WAR (number of factions maybe). If that different part could attract players they could still make a profit. Maybe try to develop that unique part for 10 or so years and see were we are at on MMORPG scale of things and decide what to do then.
The time frame EA would have set on for development and evaluation could be anything, I just put 10 years in there because it is all guess work.
At some point companies can´t continue with projects that doesn't show promise, I belive DAoC needs to start showing promise soon to not be a cancelled project for EA.
This is of course pure speculation, but speculation is all we have seen.
What are the radical moves they would have to take to keep the servers alive? A new server with a different ruleset or isn't that radical enough?
Would the Mithril shop count as a radical move?
A radical move would have been a full F2P system coupled with a new server or server reset during a Steam release in an expedited fashion. Only one of those things happened and it isn't even true F2P. The others are in limbo...so much for urgency.
To be clear, I'm not opposed to a new server. But don't think the game needs it to survive. A classic server isn't going to "save" DAoC. The developers have already stated that Ywain is the game. A classic server is just a plus one, not a solution.
I personally think Ywain and Gaheris would struggle and eventually be closed down, I don't think it would last many more years unless more people start paying for subscriptions, retail goods and mithril shop purchases.
Both of us are of course only speculating here and neither of us knows who is closest to the thruth, EA and Broadsword are the only ones with enough insight to know.
Of course they have to calm the existing players on Ywain and assure them that they are not cancelling that server for the benefit of the new server. If a new server could revive the game it would also help with the development of the two now existing servers, the service is not at it´s best at the moment so Ywain and Gaheris would probably be better off if more people would start paying for subscriptions, a win win situation.
I'm surprised Broadsword recently used the term "classic". This is such a loaded term and people are reading a lot into it. Most noticably, it seems most people are assuming a patch rollback. I think there are good reasons why that is unlikely.
#1 We've had official classic servers before. They did not include a patch rollback.
#2 Broadsword has very limited resources. A rollback could be a can-of-worms they don't want to open.
...but most importantly...
#3 As the new server progresses in expansions (based on player voting), do you expect it to progress in patches as well?
Also, you continue to ignore the history of Mythic's collapse. It was obvious when Mythic was going down. It will be obvious if Broadsword is closing. They are the same team, albeit smaller, owned by the same company. Why would it be different? They made it abundantly clear they will not jeopardize Ywain for another server hence the consideration for a seasonal server as opposed to a straight classic server. Why do you think they are lying? Did you forget that Ywain is their vision of the game? Does it make it the best version? No. It's completely subjective unless you're using population as a metric. But then you may as well scrap DAoC altogether as the game will never be as popular as it once was in the early 2000's.
Edit: on the "radical move" part, advertising could have taken place by having a popular Twitch streamer or YouTuber advocate for the game. Again, this isn't happening...
SI-TOA BUT with Artifacts and MLs disabled, got no problem with melee speed and cast speed but damage, style damage, spell damage and pierce? nah, keep it.
The hype b**er would probably disappear quickly if I see something that doesn't resemble actual classic in most ways. Some of you may not care about my hype b**er, however I arrived at these boards with it, because they did in fact use the word "classic", the company with the license for this game.
Design the chain quests to be completed within 2 hours gameplay. These quests would give large chunks of xp and rewards. There would still be grinding to be done within the zones of classic, however every 10 levels players could pickup the chain quests, and know full well that they need atleast 4 players to complete the quests to end of the chain.
If you want to bring back subs this is how you do it. The chain quests could change seasonally, but still maintain alot of what classic was.
lol....ok
I may have missed it, but I dont see anyone saying that.
I can tell something must be bothering you in your life outside of this forum though. I sincerely hope it starts getting better for you.
P.S. If people truly cared about the official license, then they would be subbed even if they don't play on Ywain or Gaheris since the announcement of another server.
I think one of the mistakes of the former classic servers was that it was not a rollback, regarding things that should have been a rollback. I am not saying I want a full rollback server but I want the changes to the ruleset to be others than what they did in the earlier tries on the classic server.
This could be true, but if they want to attract more subscribers I don't think they have much choice.
We have not heard what their final plans with the alternate ruleset server is yet. I would not mind progressing thru the patches but only as long as there is no:
Master Level Abilities
ToA stats
Stat caps
Mythyrians that adds anything in the RvR zones
Races or classes from patches after SI
Champion Levels
Labyrinth of the Minotaur (or at least not the RvR zone, Passage of Conflict, Darkness Falls, Battlegrounds and Frontiers are enough)
Why does every step to closure have follow the same pattern every time? I would have been very surprised if they had said that they would put less effort into Ywain since most of the people that are active on the forum is people that play Ywain, would have created some agitated activity I would imagen. A successful alternate ruleset server would possibly increase the resources for Ywain as well as for the other live DAoC servers. Hopefully it will not be a seasonal server I think they risk losing alot of returning subscribers that way. They will probably not achieve the same numbers as in the early 2000's but unless they achieve at least 4 times the numbers there are today I fear they will have to scrap DAoC altogether.
Advertising would be good.
Why on earth would any developer risk resources on a server that no subscriber wants to play? You literally just proved my point that none of you care about the official license. You only care about getting "your" version of classic DAoC. This is a fruitless endeavor.
Why don't I care about the official license? Because I don't want to pay them for something I don't want?
Of course I want an acceptable version of the classic DAoC, that is why I share my opinions of what I would like to see on an alternate ruleset server and asks other do do so as well. This gives the developers a chance to see what different people would like to see and it might help them to find a way to create a new server that would appeal to as many possible subscribers as possible. Only way I see it being a fruitless endeavor is if the developer completely ignores all information that is available to them and creates something noone or very few people wants, if you think that is how the developers will act then I can see how you deem it a fruitless endeavor. If they do act that way then they will fail with the alternate ruleset server and I think that means DAoC will be closed down by EA.
Define failing server. I can only name one server with higher population than Ywain and that's only during EU prime time. The rest, including a pure classic server, are dead.
The freeshards don't have to do that, the development team can do whatever changes they want if they feel like it, not much money lost for them. From what I understand the freeshards have taken som very questionable development desicions that would not have been accepted by alot of the people that wants to play on an official "classic" server this has made their population dvindle. There is still one of these servers with higher population, during EU prime time, than the server which needs to produce a net income, that makes the server that needs to make a net income a failure.
No comment on this?
There is a reason why every server goes further away from classic as it moves along because over time, the major flaws of classic simply become apparent and changes are required to keep it fun.
You cannot expect someone to keep playing a cleric in a classic ruleset and enjoy themselves. Unless you only play MMOs for socializing and not for the actual gameplay, which I suspect most of the classic players are after.
People still think daoc at launch was this super thought out game. It was developed in like 18 months with a bunch of flaws that were adressed over time.
Did BS screw up things by making ridiculous patches and increasing the gear creep in a game that revolves around player skill and abilities? Hell yeah. Does it mean that we need to go back 20 years to have a good game, no.
QoL changes I would welcome but I don't want level 50 in a day. Making it possible to get hold of end game gear with an alternate currency, for gold or bounty points I would welcome but it should take some effort to gather enough funds to purchase one piece of end game gear. The idea of being able to reskin items I like.
RA's should be looked at. Using some of the old ones, some of the new ones and could even put some of the Master Level Abilities into the RA-pool, not all of them but some would suit well there.
And I hope BS have learned from the past when they launch the new server.
As I have said I would not mind a progression server as long as that server does not have:
Master Level Abilities
ToA stats
Stat caps
Mythyrians that adds anything in the RvR zones
Races or classes from patches after SI
Champion Levels
Labyrinth of the Minotaur (or at least not as a RvR zone, Passage of Conflict, Darkness Falls, Battlegrounds and Frontiers are enough)
Balancing should be done and BS have seen what was done well and what was done poorly, they have every chance in the world to do a better job this time around.
I do not want the characters on the alternate ruleset server to be forcefully transferred to Ywain.
There are more classes than cleric available, you are not forced to play only one class.
I don't know who believes that but I suppose there might be some around. This time around BS have a chance to see if the way the problems were addressed worked or not.
I don't think an exact replica of patch 1.65 would be perfect, it wouldn't be as bad as Ywain though. But I think there are more people that would return to a "classic" server if the problems that existed back in the day was addressed in a good way.
seems that peeps that got banned on that other server found their way back to the real daoc lol......
When I reactivated recently I ran radar again but couldn’t really get it to work properly and didn’t care to.
That pretty much sums up the dev involvement of the game
i dont think they should ban a paying account---just remove all the rps on said account
Master Level Abilities
ToA stats
Stat caps
Mythyrians that adds anything in the RvR zones
Races or classes from patches after SI
Champion Levels
Labyrinth of the Minotaur
Regarding support for the official license, I see it as a common argument as to why an official classic server would somehow be better than what has already been done simply because it's official. These are the same players that currently don't support the game. It doesn't add up. You're not a paying customer, yet want to be treated as such. You're all prospective customers who may give them one or two months of subscriptions before calling foul because it's not what you want (see every server or patch ever). This is all well and good as long as it's not at the expense of the current player base which does keep the official game alive. The classic server is just a +1, not a saving grace. They would have reached out to you all by now if it was a necessity.
PS. Regarding the failed server comment. All that matters is the number of active subs, not the number of active players in the developer's eyes. While I agree that a lower population than a shard isn't great, it's also not a factor of 10 different either. The Live servers need dynamic events to keep things interesting, regardless of whether it's classic or Ywain.
@puter you don’t seem to get it. They want the people back who aren’t currently paying. They have you and you’re not enough. What’s left of the game has been molded in your image, and I’m sorry but it’s a turn off to the real potential customer base out there that they’re trying to win back.
They are looking for that original Pepsi flavor. You are pineapple Fanta.
Simply because it's official? Have never heard anyone say that. An official server do however need to take development decisions that doesn't make the subscribers leave, a freeshard doesn't have to do that since they do not depend on collecting subscription fees. What I am hoping BS will do, is taking much better desicions than has been done before on both Live and freeshards. If they don't the same thing will happen again and I don't think Live will be around much longer. With the accumulated knowledge of what the results of former changes have brought I think they have a good chance do it.
Yes the number of active subs is important, they are not increasing and they are not on a high enough level for EA to afford them decreasing. Only dynamic events is not enough to bring players back.
Probably need to navigate through this thread again. Also seen it used on reddit as well. It's a strange argument to use entirely.
Not sure why you think subs haven't been increasing. There has been a steady trickle of returning players, especially since Ramik and a couple other players have been streaming consistently. EA doesn't screw around with projects that cost more than they bring in. I can assure you if this was indeed the case, the game would be shut down immediately. Again, we saw that with Warhammer. There is no reason to expect anything different for an older, less popular game.
I do not know what you are referring to, please clarify.
Regarding the number of active subscriptions we are both just speculating, but the complaints about low population from several active players indicate to me that the amount of active subscriptions isn't increasing.
Maybe EA have agreed to give BS one last shot at increasing the active subscriptions with the alternate "classic" server and if that fails they will shut the game down. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
Edit: Onle someone working at EA in a position that are taking such decisions could assure anyone of how EA is going to act, rest of us can only speculate.
Completing my ToA requirements right now takes roughly 2 hours (getting my MLs, artifacts and leveling them), compared to multiple weeks.
The funny thing is that people want to go back to more PvE, just blows my mind.
The ToA zones were also a lot of fun to explore. But the ship of the unknown has sailed.
resistance charges were from dragon drops i thought????
Having a hole in your template because you felt other things were more important was kind of a cool thing for the game. It gave it a bit of variability. Now you do the same 322 (-200) damage to every carbon copy of a player that shows up with baseline kings gear. It feels stale sometimes.