/freexfer between ywain and the new server back and forth as you like. CAP RA to 40 Points, increasing this cap with time going, so even RR14 lifeless people cannot just use all their points.
One big frontierzone (way smaller than NF now) without teleporters, but like 4 different starting positions, so one cannot be camped all day.
Less Keeps/Towers with guards, merely keeps without guards and doors
Old NF Bridges.
No Agramon.
No classic Ruleset ! Playing without all the new stats/abilites/toa etc. ist boring, classic was fun in the days past. But nowadays I'd be bored missing like 30 abilities I could use during a fight. Looking at phoenix I realized having only classic limits me.
I know the fotm is easy and boring gameplay without any hurdles to overcome , but overcoming those and becoming better is part of the fun, maybe the biggest part in it.
If people wanted classic, Cathal valley would be overflowing with groups all day. Clear evidence.
DAOC became great because it is highly complex and takes months to really master a class (if you don't 24/7 but just play). If you are not willing to dig in, this game is not for you. I suggest flapping bird or candy crush instead.
Add some RP gained by friend vs. foe ratio in an area of like 3500 around your group. So zerging 80 vs 30 will result in like 5 rp gained. So people will not just join the biggest zerg but fight against it.
So running down solos for a 8 man is not worth it, but instead looking for other 8mans or the zerg to harass.
Change Realm timer to 12 hours, so people have to decide what to play for the day and can not bend like a straw in the wind and just become a wtj.
So overall, I'd like to see a total FZ revamp to accomodate for the lower playerbase
This game took the torch after EQ and UO. If they are going to ignore all of the pve content that came with the original game, then atleast start adding some really unique features out in the pvp zones.
Drop unique boss mobs every month in pvp zones that give a monthly bonus to the realm that defeats them.
I just watched a streamer talk about how boring it was. Well duh, you can't just "hope" people are going to keep doing the same exact pvp content. I remember the days we used to mez group after group and pbaoe bomb them, forcing people to log, because they couldn't stage an attack around anything except buildings.
Have players stage attacks on the regular for meaningful pvp boss mobs. If you claim that they are always adding new boss mobs in pvp zones, then it's clear that the rewards aren't good enough, due to population.
In case you make the move of bringing these new servers out, and leave out all the rich pve content from original game, please give an old schooler like myself a reason to play, other than (mezball, pbaoe, make people log) I saw this about 18-15 years ago as my group did it to people.
If there is no meaningful reward or glory, then you will see the population as you currently have.
The game in the actual state is dead, like many already said.
Not fully buffed... no need to get out...
Not in a nearly perfect temp.... no need to get out...
Not RR11 up..... no need to get out....
Not cheating.... no need to get out...
Not using all possible automations... no need to get out...
Not playing fotm-chars.... no need to get out....
Just a few fanboys with mental problems are denying that.
But thats fine, BS is catering the game around them to get some bucks... so it be...
Lets just forget about ywaine and let the "pros" stew in their own filth....
A new server has to be real classic server...
As the game was at relaese...
Obviously no TOA or later crap... thats what killed the game in the first place...
Leveling has to take ages...
Every level gained has to have a meaning...
Crafting has to take ages...
Every point gained has to have a meaning...
Obviously no transfer from Ywaine.
Obviously no realm-hopping.
Obviously no P2W.
And obviously, cant stress too much, no TOA-bonuses or equip....
If they can manage to limit TOA to PVE than fine, but without ANY connection to PVP.
Who wants to spend months with hitting mobs.
Pull, pbae, pull, pbae, pull pbae.... wow, thats fascinating.
The game is about RvR, not about hitting mobs.
Btw they dont really call it a classic server. They call it an alternate ruleset server.
You might want to correct yourself. Straight from their Grabbag (22/01/2021):
"...our work continues on the alternate, "classic" ruleset server and we look forward to sharing our plans with you very soon!"
No, BS did not say "Alternative ruleset server" as you put it -
BS said " alternate, "classic" ruleset server".
Pretty clear there bud.
Please, keep in mind, when you quote something, you lose credibility when you change/remove words from the quote and context that it comes from. Either you did this by accident (pretty easy to do if you didn't read the whole thing), or you did this on purpose. Either way, not a good look for ya.
"And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
Well if they want to care bear it, then It wont hold much population for longer then a year. Too many games that have care bear leveling i.e. the current version of the game.
Make level 50 truly mean something or there is little point, people kept begging for easier leveling on far too many games, and asking for that cookie cutter sheet wont be what you think.
People will rocket to 50 and realize that the level was just a minor "inconvenience" that might as well have been "instant 50". No point, no glory. I am just an old schooler tho, dont like the easy freebie stuff. Entering rvr as 50 at all should be an event worth of celebration.
Leveling in DAoC serves one primary purpose (even today): it allows the few new players to learn their class and game mechanics while providing opportunities to test them out in small scale RvR (i.e. Battlegrounds). It was only an "achievement" to reach 50 near release when the game was new. It quickly became a time-sink, hence the requests for making leveling easier. The goal for most players was (and still is) to reach 50 quickly so they could RvR as that's the appeal to DAoC. There are countless games still around where you can grind XP to your hearts desire. However, there are no games that have the unique PvP system (RvR) like DAoC has.
While I understand the nostalgia crowd is literally chasing the good 'ol times, they are gone. It's time to make new memories, not relive old ones. The classic ruleset doesn't have to be grindy. It can be simple as I've eluded to before. Fewer classes, abilities, and uncomplicated templates is attractive to a larger playerbase. That is what Broadsword will likely focus on: a broader appeal. My major concern is the lack of dynamics events to keep the game from becoming stale. We can't expect to see expansion level content ever again for DAoC to keep it interesting. Time will tell what they plan to do (if anything at all).
Actually, longer leveling times serves more purposes than what you have mentioned, and I am not even agreeing with everything you said there.
Xp/farming is ALSO done for social purposes but again, not the sole reason and I won't even claim that it is. That you can not deny, even if put side by side with your supposed "primary" purpose of to "learn their class". I think it is funny you are even bringing this up, since you didn't argue against a purported thesis that the majority of a potential market for daoc's alternative classic ruleset server may only bring in old players and not bring in new players (I don't agree with this analogy, just repeating it for reference), why then would you even bring up the "learn their classes" argument?
Or was this your attempt to kill any idea of slower xp rates than what you are used to on Ywain in your vain attempt to sabotage interest in the new server?
How about these reasons for slower xp rates. Filters. Yes, believe it or not, when someone has to invest multiple double digit hours for each individual character on their account, then they will be less likely to do 2 things --
They will be less likely to mis-behave, or even attempt out right rule breaking, such as using illegal macro programs, radar, fly hacks, bug exploitations, etc -- which are a major thorn in the feet of any retail game.
Next, for DAOC, these folks will be less likely to "realm hop". This filter actually helps to encourage realm loyalty, and realm pride.
I get that you are an advocate for realm hopping, as most current players of Ywain very well may engage in that activity. However, you are forgetting one very important thing here -- in the context of this new server, current Ywain players are NOT the target audience.
Look at it another way -- no one is going to FORCE you to play on this new server. This new server will only serve to help bring players to your greatly vaunted Ywain (that seems to be floundering for some reason(s).. hm....)
I have asked this before, and I am going to ask again -- Since no one is forcing you to play on this new server, wat gives you the authority to attempt to force any potential new players (or old returning players who haven't played on live daoc in over 13 years) to play on Ywain? Don't you get it? Most of those guys will NEVER play on Ywain, and have NOT in over a decade, you nor anyone else can argue the evidence of this fact.
And once again, one more question that I dare you to answer with honest truth -- why WOULDN'T BS bring this new server back online with the great potential benefit of having thousands of re-subs coming back, of which, will be bringing many of their friends who have never played on live before (but for on certain freeshards), many of whom would actually be interested in checking out Ywain?
What have you got to lose in this venture?
Or shall we all (players/BS staff) keep beating our heads on the wall trying to come up with some unknown solution that has yet to work or to be seriously addressed in the last 13 years (since the clustered servers were forced merged into TOA)?
Or how about we go back to a winning/working money maker server ruleset. And this time leave it the hell up side by side with Ywain with their rulesets that allow for realm hopping and silver spoon fed near insta 50 leveling and lets let the entire community see for themselves once and for all who is actually right in this argument? If you are right, then what are you afraid of?
I say, put your money where your mouth is -- literally. You and your kind sub for Ywain and stay there and mind your own business (cause we see how well that's been working, ROFL... not), and the rest of us will sub up for the new server (old) ruleset.
"And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
The game in the actual state is dead, like many already said.
Not fully buffed... no need to get out...
Not in a nearly perfect temp.... no need to get out...
Not RR11 up..... no need to get out....
Not cheating.... no need to get out...
Not using all possible automations... no need to get out...
Not playing fotm-chars.... no need to get out....
Just a few fanboys with mental problems are denying that.
But thats fine, BS is catering the game around them to get some bucks... so it be...
Lets just forget about ywaine and let the "pros" stew in their own filth....
A new server has to be real classic server...
As the game was at relaese...
Obviously no TOA or later crap... thats what killed the game in the first place...
Leveling has to take ages...
Every level gained has to have a meaning...
Crafting has to take ages...
Every point gained has to have a meaning...
Obviously no transfer from Ywaine.
Obviously no realm-hopping.
Obviously no P2W.
And obviously, cant stress too much, no TOA-bonuses or equip....
If they can manage to limit TOA to PVE than fine, but without ANY connection to PVP.
Mahv
"A new server has to be real classic server...
As the game was at relaese...
Obviously no TOA or later crap... thats what killed the game in the first place...
Leveling has to take ages...
Every level gained has to have a meaning...
Crafting has to take ages...
Every point gained has to have a meaning..."
Right on. I especially liked "Every level gained has to have a meaning..."
Oh, and for you wow fanbois out there.. no wow was NOT what caused the downfall of daoc. WoW came out Nov. 2004, where as DAOC TOA was released in Oct. 2003, meaning 13 MONTHS after TOA.
Mahv, this next part is not directed at you in the least, but thank you for mentioning TOA. This opens the door for me to address the assertion of TOA being the downfall of DAOC of which I am a full supporter of along with you.
So time to give you clowns a bit of an accounting education here and what it means to "subscribe", and what the majority of players in any game do with their subscriptions when given options and incentives for longer subs.
I do not know if current DAOC still offers these sub options, but back in the time period between oct 2001 through 2007/8 (when clustered were forced merged into Ywain (ToA at the time)), we had these options for subbing:
1 Month
3 Months
6 Months
12 Months
With each new longer option, we were given a bigger discount so that in effect, a 1 year sub total payment was around 10 single month payments. Most players were NOT subbing for 1 month, and the vast majority were doing it for more than 3 months with every resub time period.
Now knowing this little nugget (seriously, some of y'all need to go to a school that teaches some basic economics) and then looking at the time frame of when WoW came out, and when TOA came out, then some pretty logical conclusions can be drawn here, REGARDLESS of what some ignorant youtube user who is attempting to monetize and perpetrate with his inaccurate analysis that WoW was the death of DAOC. Anyone with brains can see the flaw in his logic.
So here we go with the inaccurate claim that WoW was the death of DAOC, in stead of TOA. Problem with this is timing. Plain and simple. I can almost buy this argument if perhaps DAOC's population had a huge sudden drop off in the thousands over a 2-3 month period of time AFTER WoW came out. Problem with here is, that the drop off with the subs was already starting 6 months BEFORE WoW was released! ... Hey guess what.. that lines right up with the DAOC subscription option cycles that correlate with when the ToA expansion was released.... I wonder how much that youtuber was paid by someone behind the scenes to try to make up his weird cockeymamey story... makes one wonder...
Anyhow.. when we fast forward another 6 more months AFTER TOA was released... there goes the rest of the DAOC 1 year subs (which includes those who resubbed right before TOA came out) out the window, never to return... a full MONTH before WoW was distributed to your local retail stores.
Now, not saying there wasn't a continued drop off AFTER WoW was released, of which I do not argue because it is obviously correct... but the more interesting question in this is, how many of the ones who quit DAOC over TOA supposedly would be willing to give it another go if classic was brought back online (regardless of what game they were playing at the time, including the top one at the time, being WoW).
So Mythic brought classic back online around the time frame of late 2005, early 2006.. and lo and behold, it was a "miracle"! Don't like this analysis? Well, too fricking bad, cause this is ACTUAL history here.... thousands of players
returned to the game, with MOST of them sticking around up to the ill-fated announcement of forced merger into Ywain.
There has also been conjecture as to why Gareth/Lamorak/Ector were forced merged into Ywain.. which ranged from cost of maintaining the servers, to some supposed massive population decline. I distinctly recall seeing over 4000 players on the clustered servers before the TOA ill fated merger announcement, and then literally overnight that pop dropped below 800. Now who's fault is that? Wasn't the players by any means... so unless the clustered servers monthly bills were costing over 20K a month (which is seriously doubted when we know that a monthly hosting fee for this kind of server will range from 100 to upwards of 300/month)... then it didn't make any sort of financial sense to take that ruleset down.... unless it was the TOA ruleset servers that were the ones that were having population problems, which again, is what actually was going on as, NONE of them were able to get over 1200 while the classic clustered servers were online!
So long story short on this -- Mythic banked on (and subsequently lost their shirts on this failed market move) their gaming customers to be more loyal than what they were, and being forced to play on a ruleset that they made clear once before in 2004 they refused to play. Mythic's gaming customers by and large were having none of this nonsense and left again instead of being directed to play on a the TOA ruleset for a 2nd time.
But now, we have new management now that appears to have learned the pitfalls of some of these egregious mistakes and faulty analysis their forerunners made with the community, and are willing to take a serious look at doing something that will bring back their cash cow.
Post edited by LordGriffon on
"And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
@LordGriffon I personally don't care for an inflated population that wants to PvE for social interaction. I want the active RvR population to go up. This is why I'm against a slow, grindy leveling system. You're right, I don't have to play on the new server. I may or may not depending on how it's done. I personally don't think Ywain is currently a shining example of DAoC. My favorite time period is still the dragon patch era (1.9X). Bugs aside, the only thing the game needed was dynamic events, imo.
My primary concern with the new server is that it will suffer from staleness quickly since, as we've seen with BS, they're not particularly quick at providing updates in terms of content or bug fixes. They will be directly competing with another server that does this on a whim. Maybe I'll be wrong and the server will flourish, but I suspect it will end up similar to the current competitions predecessor. I understand you're all banking on nostalgia for the success of a classic server. I'm suggesting your nostalgia is fleeting and a classic era server with modern QoL will be better in the long run.
One last bit of concern from an active subscriber, there will be a split in resources from the development team. As I've already stated, BS struggles to manage Ywain. Adding another server without a boost in resources will likely cripple their development process. I'm not worried about a population jump or lower population on Ywain. I'm worried about the development strain that may lead to the downfall of official DAoC altogether. The new server has to be done right, whether it's to cater to the nostalgia folks or breech a compromise, to increase their development resources. The ball is in their court at the end of the day so we'll see what they say in the coming weeks (hopefully not months).
@LordGriffon I personally don't care for an inflated population that wants to PvE for social interaction. I want the active RvR population to go up. This is why I'm against a slow, grindy leveling system. You're right, I don't have to play on the new server. I may or may not depending on how it's done. I personally don't think Ywain is currently a shining example of DAoC. My favorite time period is still the dragon patch era (1.9X). Bugs aside, the only thing the game needed was dynamic events, imo.
I personally believe the PvE should be a bit more time demanding than it is now, it should not be as slow as it was in the 1.65 patch but it should take alot longer than it does on Ywain. I believe it would be a good idea to not make it possible to power level as quickly as it was possible to do in patch 1.65. Maybe make the amount of experience/mob lower if your group members are much a higher level.
My primary concern with the new server is that it will suffer from staleness quickly since, as we've seen with BS, they're not particularly quick at providing updates in terms of content or bug fixes. They will be directly competing with another server that does this on a whim. Maybe I'll be wrong and the server will flourish, but I suspect it will end up similar to the current competitions predecessor. I understand you're all banking on nostalgia for the success of a classic server. I'm suggesting your nostalgia is fleeting and a classic era server with modern QoL will be better in the long run.
One way to avoid staleness could be to add later patches but change certain thing from those patches, like not including Master Level Abilities, stat caps, Trials of Atlantis stats and Artifacts. This would allow for new items that is not necessary but not useless. Bugs they have had to adress before, and have seen the results of their way to handle it, can be reevaluated and handled again with a knowledge of what worked and what didn't work the first time around. The difference between the free shards and live is that live need to take the right decisions to not compromise their income. I hope they will love the chance to have a second go at it and implement more appriciated, by their player base, solutions to the gaming experience and the balance between the realms without making the classes mirrors of each other.
One last bit of concern from an active subscriber, there will be a split in resources from the development team. As I've already stated, BS struggles to manage Ywain. Adding another server without a boost in resources will likely cripple their development process. I'm not worried about a population jump or lower population on Ywain. I'm worried about the development strain that may lead to the downfall of official DAoC altogether. The new server has to be done right, whether it's to cater to the nostalgia folks or breech a compromise, to increase their development resources. The ball is in their court at the end of the day so we'll see what they say in the coming weeks (hopefully not months).
If the alternate "classic" ruleset server is able to generate more income that could justify hiring more people to work with Ywain, Gaheris and the alternate "classic" ruleset server. If the alternate "classic" ruleset server is a failure I don't think the other servers will be kept alive very long anyway, EA probably don't want to keep something that just barely pays for it self and don't generate any net income to speak of. If on the other hand the alternate "classic" ruleset server generates a high income EA would want to keep the game alive. I think the subscription income the game generates after 9-12 months of the alternate "classic" ruleset server have been launched will have a big influence on whether the game, apart from free shards, will be around at all in 2 years time, and if it economically justifies hiring more people it will be beneficial for all servers.
I figured out a solid solution. Allow pve at normal, as it was in the glory days, allow 4x xp for killing mobs in a pvp zone.
Allow a level 20 boost to any account that has a level 50 character on it, as it was in the glory days. Allow character transfer from Ywain with only classic gear, and no realm points.
I will be posting new ideas, of no more than two short paragraphs, on a daily basis.
Scratch the Ywain to classic server character transfer, it could only be classic to Ywain transfer, or character dupe for that matter. Bearing in mind that you even make an interesting pve leveling process on the classic servers. (I would pay 20 a month to relive the old daoc leveling days) or even do a 4x xp pve zone and 8x pvp zone on mob kills.
This game is not advertised anywhere, at all. Who knew about EC? Basically no one, it was barely advertised on the actual DaOC homepage for a while. A new server is just going to be populated with current players and a small amount of existing players who perhaps check in on this game once in a while (like myself).
I dont understand the lack of any advertising for this game. It;s not like this game is a trash tier MMO that nobody knows about, i think alot of people who would potentially play this game just needs reminding that it actually exists.
Make a BG from thidranki all the way up to molvik (molvik was added post toa,but this would be a good compromise). In each bg if you manage to capture the keep in the middle, give a massive xp reward(one that could take someone from level 49 to 50).
Also spawn randomized bosses, ones that would take atleast 4 people to kill, would always present a different random challenge, on a 30 min timer within each BG that would give a large amount of xp if killed. You could stay in BGS all the way from 20-50.
This game is not advertised anywhere, at all. Who knew about EC? Basically no one, it was barely advertised on the actual DaOC homepage for a while. A new server is just going to be populated with current players and a small amount of existing players who perhaps check in on this game once in a while (like myself).
I dont understand the lack of any advertising for this game. It;s not like this game is a trash tier MMO that nobody knows about, i think alot of people who would potentially play this game just needs reminding that it actually exists.
I guess, advertisement is too expensive. I dont know any other reason.
#2 so new server has "season" that when time is alloted the said character is locked until next event or stage maybe run 3 months and lock and repeat with another toon then at 12 month mark can have a grand championship of sorts for rare gear, rps, kills, goals set to meet requirements, maybe that's how can get pve involved require x amount of said kill tasks, even if minute, cause I'm not really into the reset idea, enough of this stupid talk here.
#3 have a realm timer that's random cooldown 2-8 hrs be well enough not to ruin the loyalty and playerbase. #4 Relics are meant to add more power and perks, so why not have a system of if 1 realm owns them all they get perks but all keeps and doors are dropped in lvls, 72hr hold time on each relic then gone, if have all 6 then can basically cash them in for a new Relic of Bounty that would spawn in random locations locations, instead it be top end gear, supplies, random crates for lucrative bonuses, all that's there gets the loot, non tradeable drops, with system on a random cooldown timer for the claiming realm of a day or sor something and again enough there...
But all in all needs to be 2.0 needs to be in the works, I heard the Steam rumors and EA will be the hold back on it, but a revamp and able to cross platform would be a step in the right direction, not sure the limits on Steam, not ran it but I'd have said if Da0c went there I give it a try, I've played off and on since launch but this last run was a bit of downer, plus by looks I'll be losing my LGM crafters, I vote to keep ywain for maybe "veteran events" if anything ywain can be the instant fights or primetime rollers, I do like the nostalgia, but as stated that only goes so far, pve sucks but farming certain drops and making new friends and all learning their new toons it does help some, but p2w isn't the option, like the cosmetic stuff some, but the instant lvl bs is lame
The game in the actual state is dead, like many already said.
Not fully buffed... no need to get out...
Not in a nearly perfect temp.... no need to get out...
Not RR11 up..... no need to get out....
Not cheating.... no need to get out...
Not using all possible automations... no need to get out...
Not playing fotm-chars.... no need to get out....
Just a few fanboys with mental problems are denying that.
But thats fine, BS is catering the game around them to get some bucks... so it be...
Lets just forget about ywaine and let the "pros" stew in their own filth....
A new server has to be real classic server...
As the game was at relaese...
Obviously no TOA or later crap... thats what killed the game in the first place...
Leveling has to take ages...
Every level gained has to have a meaning...
Crafting has to take ages...
Every point gained has to have a meaning...
Obviously no transfer from Ywaine.
Obviously no realm-hopping.
Obviously no P2W.
And obviously, cant stress too much, no TOA-bonuses or equip....
If they can manage to limit TOA to PVE than fine, but without ANY connection to PVP.
Mahv
YES YES YES!!!!!
I Recommend this post!
A True Classic Server. Ywain is dead. No one wants to compete with rr12's and have to spend 500+ myth for a temp.
Make the leveling long and grueling and epics mean something. Only RVR in the Frontiers. Just like the beginning.
I honestly will keep pushing for a similar pve grind as the early days (pre-toa). A 50 level toon needs to hold value for its level again. The season idea sounds good.
If seasons, it could be X amount of months as you stated, and provide lifetime account rewards. They could go ahead and expedite leveling quite a bit, 4x in pve zones, 8x in pvp zones for mob kills, if the season idea takes effect. They could also expedite realm points earned.
someone who levels only in pve could make 50 in 1 month, if they averaged a couple of hours a day gameplay. So 2 weeks to 50 if they killed mobs in pvp zones/BGs. 2 months of pvp(considering they aren't losing too much) to hit RR10. Dont allow more than RR10 on classic servers. If its seasons it will reset every 3 months, if its not seasons, it will take a very long time to get there anyway.
I don’t understand the desire for the old pve grind. The freeshard leveling experience isn’t nearly as slow as that was but still slow enough that it can be frustrating. I’m not playing either server right now but I did find that I’d take breaks from xping on the shard from time to time to check out rvr on live. Granted that never lasted long either [removed] but the frustrations of xping were enough to cause me to give it a chance for a few minutes.
I think that sort of slow xp grind was more fun when you didn’t know what new toys the next level offered. Now everyone knows what new stuff the next level brings and there’s no mystery left. Maybe if there were new abilities waiting for you around the corner or something I dunno.
Some of the older players dont want something that resembles a moba or battle royale game. They want the full game that was Dark Age of Camelot.
An official server, supported by those with the license, that let's you know your 50 is worth something.
I've said it once and I don't mind saying it again. Asking to only have a half-game, with no actually leveling journey, is what you already have on Ywain, and asking for that to be on the classic servers will just be a wasted attempt at bringing something that could be great.
I would like it if the task dungeons was included to speed up leveling.
I would accept patches after Shrouded isles as long as there was no:
Master Level abilities
Stat caps
ToA stats
Artifacts
Champion Levels
Mythyríans (that has any effect in RvR, in other words they only gives bonuses in the new patch zones)
Races/classes that came with patches after Shrouded Isles
Should not be very hard to add new stats/procs/uses to the items, in the patches after SI, to make them equal to the items that was available in the 1.65 patch.
It should be possible to purchase the high end drops with either bounty points or with one alternate currency (for example Dragon Scales), but it should take some time to get hold of enough alternate currency to purchase one high end item so that Dragon raids, SI-dungeon raids and the later patch raids are still worth attending.
Removing toa is the equivalent of half a game to a great many people as well isn’t it? All I think is that the leveling journey is one that has already been had many times over by players. Maybe if they add something new to it rather than the same old smash smash smash lvl lvl lvl hey any SM + alt lfg modern?? [removed]
You talk about half the game not being used nowadays (leveling and being 50), but with your vision of a classic server is missing multiple expansions which means you're still missing at least half the game... I guess it only makes sense when it benefits your idea
Removing toa is the equivalent of half a game to a great many people as well isn’t it? All I think is that the leveling journey is one that has already been had many times over by players. Maybe if they add something new to it rather than the same old smash smash smash lvl lvl lvl hey any SM + alt lfg modern?? [removed].
As I said, would not oppose to ToA zones being implemented, but remove the MLs, new stats, stat caps, artifacts and ToA races. Make the items recieved from the different encounters in ToA equal to the items that existed before ToA. Keep the trophies and don't make them available for purchase for any currency, you need to do the encounter, and in some cases win the lottery, to get the trophy (or pay alot of gold for it to the person that won).
They have not done this before on live, only time it was close to that is when there was a healthy population on the servers, that population dropped alot when ToA was released. I believe Master Levels and Artifacts had a big impact on that development. I suggest removing the other stuff that requires complete template remakes as well.
I have also mentioned, on several occasions, earlier in this thread that I think power leveling should be discouraged by lowering the xp/mob a character gets if there is a much higher level character in the group.
Removing toa does not remove half of the game that classic was. I am only saying there should be a meaningful pve experience during leveling.
Moderna groups were the absolute best way to level back in the day.
I did put my earlier ideas in this thread for expedited leveling in classic. They could simply keep dungeons such as vendo caverns, and spindelhalla; Renovate those dungeons in such a way that people would gather again. The loss of meaningful social interaction is what led to stagnation.
Honestly if Toa never was released, I believe that daoc would be twice as strong today. Wow did a number also on all games afterward.
I will use an analogy from my time in the service.
We used to do these long and exhausting ruck marches, and runs. We grew together from the difficult times.
The reason anything, including a video game stagnates, is because there stops being a difficult time. For example, in daoc currently, I watched a streamer talk about how bored he was after running over an 8 man and then standing in front of a sparcely defended enemy keep for an hour with his zerg. There it is, THAT BIG RVR GAMEPLAY. The winners get bored, and losers say "why bother".
They could also tie everything together. Pve and pvp. Leveling mostly in battlegrounds or old frontier, with some uniquely presented pve for leveling/gearing also.
If the journey isnt difficult enough, then the journey will be boring.
You guys are commenting on MLs and artifacts but have you played the game recently? The encounters have been dramatically changed and you don't even need to do them any more because of the way BPs are nowadays. To keep commenting on stuff you have no current experience with is absurd
You guys are commenting on MLs and artifacts but have you played the game recently? The encounters have been dramatically changed and you don't even need to do them any more because of the way BPs are nowadays. To keep commenting on stuff you have no current experience with is absurd
When I last played you could buy MLs and Artifacts with Atlantean Glass and/or Bounty points, together with crafting quality 100% charges.
I don't think Master Level Abilities, ToA stats, stat caps or Artifacts should be in the game at all. To remove them would also make the implementation of ToA better than it was back when ToA was released. It would aslo keep more of the items from classic and SI zones viable in templates, making activity in more zones due to the competetive items being more evenly spread out.
Lol @ triqdave and the rest of the lifetime daocers failing to realize it’s those people who haven’t been around that they’re trying to bring back to... ya know... keep the lights on. What these people want is what matters.
Sorry kid but your 2 20 year accounts aren’t enough to pay broadswords rent.
Pretty sure they could keep the lights on with just the macro teams alone. There's also a significant portion of inactive accounts still subbed.
Anywho. ToA is fine where it's at. The classic server aims to appeal to a player base that struggles to handle more than two bars of abilities (sometimes one) and cater to a nostalgic crowd. I'm all for it if it means we get regular updates on Ywain.
Pretty sure they could keep the lights on with just the macro teams alone. There's also a significant portion of inactive accounts still subbed.
I don't think EA would accept loosing money on keeping staff and servers for a game with such a low monthly income. I think they are now trying to find a way to make the game pay for itself or to atleast not starting to be in the red column financially.
Anywho. ToA is fine where it's at. The classic server aims to appeal to a player base that struggles to handle more than two bars of abilities (sometimes one) and cater to a nostalgic crowd. I'm all for it if it means we get regular updates on Ywain.
There are alot of potential DAoC players that doesn't think ToA is fine where it is, or even where it was, for more reasons than just the time you had to invest. These people constitutes a big portion of the people that should be attracted back to DAoC, the alternate "classic" ruleset server is a great oppurtunity for Broadsword to achieve that, if the server is done right.
It is funny how you believe you are a more accomplished player just because you enjoy a game very few enjoy, and to defend your self esteem claims that it is because only the less accomplished players left when they didn't like the game anymore, it is very cute in a way :-) and quite sad in another...
@Jorma Going to give the TLDR version of what I originally intended to write.
Live DAoC is currently self sustainable. No evidence to suggest otherwise.
A classic server is a simpler version of DAoC. You and other like-minded ex-players are banking on scratching the nostalgia itch and will continue to find fault with the game regardless of what is released on said server.
Live DAoC is currently self sustainable. No evidence to suggest otherwise.
I doubt it but you are right in that I do not have any evidence to prove it, I have no insight in EA or the economical reports they recieve from the Dark Age of Camelot branch of their organization. I doubt you have any insight regarding that either, I just find it strange that a game can pay for it self with such low population.
A classic server is a simpler version of DAoC. You and other like-minded ex-players are banking on scratching the nostalgia itch and will continue to find fault with the game regardless of what is released on said server.
I know you insist on it being simpler because it is less /uses, and perhaps even abilities, but less /uses and abilities doesn't necessarily mean the skill cap is lower. With enemies that is not coded to do certain things at certain instances there is more to take into consideration and you learn what different player controlled enemies do and how they change their tactics over time and you have to adapt, with very few enemies it is easier to adapt with many enemies it takes a bit more, a successful alternate "classic" ruleset server will bring more enemies than is available on Ywain.
DAoC is a video game with preset limitations regardless of who is behind the keyboard. The number of abilities is finite which also dictates the finite combination of said abilities. Population has nothing to do with this. The frequency in which you interact with another player (i.e. player density) scales proportionally with population. However, this has no bearing on the skill ceiling or complexity of game play. The unofficial server is a prime example.
You intend to zerg the dragon down for a chance to /random 1000 a drop.
LOL it’s self sustaining? Then why did they create a free to play campaign? Why did they announce a new server? Why do they not tell the player base how many active players there actually are? Why can’t they advertise? Why do they only have 3-4 employees?
Surely you see a pattern by now
Seriously if DAoC was a stock would you buy it? If you honestly answered yes to that please explain your reasoning.
LOL it’s self sustaining? Then why did they create a free to play campaign? Why did they announce a new server? Why do they not tell the player base how many active players there actually are?
Surely you see a pattern by now
A new server has been teased about for multiple years. No measurable progress has been made suggesting there is no immediate need to remedy the current situation.
The F2P campaign is basically an indefinite trial. Endless Conquest is not true F2P due to the severe limitations it has. I personally disagree with the approach BS took with this.
Concurrent server population has been hidden since EA took over the game. This has nothing to do with success / failure.
Edit to address your latter point. EA is a publicly traded entity that owns DAoC. So yes, you can buy stock in the game technically. Would I invest directly into the BS team? No. I'd rather see it change hands for different reasons than being discussed in this thread.
Ben has a lemonade stand. Ben averages 100 daily customers. Ben changes his recipe. After some time, Ben notices he averages 50 daily customers. Ben sells his business and its 50 daily customers to John.
John changes the recipe. John averages 25 daily customers. John tweaks the recipe further and announces free samples. John now averages 10 daily customers.
Judy discovers Bens original recipe and opens up a lemonade stand. Judy averages 50 daily customers.
John averages 5 daily customers. John announces he’s going to start offering Bens original lemonade.
(Johns 5 customers insist the lemonade is the best it’s ever been)
DAoC is a video game with preset limitations regardless of who is behind the keyboard. The number of abilities is finite which also dictates the finite combination of said abilities. Population has nothing to do with this. The frequency in which you interact with another player (i.e. player density) scales proportionally with population. However, this has no bearing on the skill ceiling or complexity of game play. The unofficial server is a prime example.
The number of abilities is finite in all patches of DAoC what is your point? Of course the size of the population doesn't change the number of abilities available for any class, the bigger number of variations of abalities used by one enemy class does however force you to prepare for a bigger variation of enemies and adapt in that way. While a small amount of enemies, which are all more or less cookie cutter, will be detrimental for variation.
You intend to zerg the dragon down for a chance to /random 1000 a drop.
It is funny how you use deductive reasoning when it suits your means, pretty much every argument you have used in this thread. Only Sherlock Holmes can use that type of reasoning and he is fictional, the truth is written down to suit his deductive reasoning in that universe.
Ben has a lemonade stand. Ben averages 100 daily customers. Ben changes his recipe. After some time, Ben notices he averages 50 daily customers. Ben sells his business and its 50 daily customers to John.
John changes the recipe. John averages 25 daily customers. John tweaks the recipe further and announces free samples. John now averages 10 daily customers.
Judy discovers Bens original recipe and opens up a lemonade stand. Judy averages 50 daily customers.
John averages 5 daily customers. John announces he’s going to start offering Bens original lemonade.
(Johns 5 customers insist the lemonade is the best it’s ever been)
If you're arguing about what is more popular, then DAoC is a failure altogether. No new DAoC server will ever compete with a modern MMO in terms of population and profit. This game and its genre are niche. CU made that abundantly clear. An additional server is unnecessary to keep DAoC running. It would have been done already if that was the case. There is no sense of urgency from the development team because there is no need for it.
Ben has a lemonade stand. Ben averages 100 daily customers. Ben changes his recipe. After some time, Ben notices he averages 50 daily customers. Ben sells his business and its 50 daily customers to John.
John changes the recipe. John averages 25 daily customers. John tweaks the recipe further and announces free samples. John now averages 10 daily customers.
Judy discovers Bens original recipe and opens up a lemonade stand. Judy averages 50 daily customers.
John averages 5 daily customers. John announces he’s going to start offering Bens original lemonade.
(Johns 5 customers insist the lemonade is the best it’s ever been)
If you're arguing about what is more popular, then DAoC is a failure altogether. No new DAoC server will ever compete with a modern MMO in terms of population and profit. This game and its genre are niche. CU made that abundantly clear. An additional server is unnecessary to keep DAoC running. It would have been done already if that was the case. There is no sense of urgency from the development team because there is no need for it.
It does not have to compete with a modern MMO, it just have to generate a profit. It is a genre and a niche. I think a sucessful alternate server is necessary to keep DAoC running apart from free shards. Are you working at Broadsword? How do you know there is no urgency? Is it just a feeling or do you have an actual insight in EA and Broadsword?
I think the project of a new server is being brought into focus because the game simply isn’t sustainable in its current course.
The freeshard dealt it a pretty significant blow in that I suspect we wouldn’t even be talking about an alternate server had it never launched. I absolutely believe the broadsword team is operating dangerously close to the threshold it needs to stay above in order to remain solvent. Such is the impetus for their recent talk about this supposed server they have in the works.
I’m no fool. I don’t anticipate DAoC will ever be able to achieve anything beyond 1-2k players worldwide at this point. As far as I’m concerned the game has reached all of the players it’s ever going to reach. But whether or not it gets that needed bump in population to stay afloat for an extra while longer will only (maybe) be realized with a fresh new server. If things are left alone Ywains population will eventually dwindle to 500, 300, 200 etc.
I think that sort of slow xp grind was more fun when you didn’t know what new toys the next level offered. Now everyone knows what new stuff the next level brings and there’s no mystery left. Maybe if there were new abilities waiting for you around the corner or something I dunno.
@Jorma Talks of a new server have been going on for years. There has been zero measurable progress since (i.e. Broadsword hasn't shown us anything regarding its development). No. I'm not an employee. If indeed there is urgency to release a classic server in order to keep the development team from tanking, then there should be at least some progress updates. We have zero. They have only said that they are working on it which is ambiguous. Working on a new client? Working on a custom patch setting for the classic ruleset? Fixing old bugs? Adding some QoL? Old archery? We have no clue because there is no transparency.
@Grizlie You're right. Live suffered a large blow back in January 2019. I was there when the population dropped steeply. They attempted to address that issue with Endless Conquest; however, it didn't work as well as those of us who stayed behind hoped (as expected). The population is not quite back to where it was, but it's close. They were worried in 2019. There was no April Fools patch notes. That never happened before. There was in 2020 and likely will be in 2021. Considering there is no legal means for BS to attack the freeshards, I suspect the classic server is their answer. It has little to do with keeping the game running and more to do with taking back the players that were "stolen" from them. Hopefully they learned that what keeps the freeshards alive has nothing to do with old PvE grinds.
Comments
/freexfer between ywain and the new server back and forth as you like. CAP RA to 40 Points, increasing this cap with time going, so even RR14 lifeless people cannot just use all their points.
One big frontierzone (way smaller than NF now) without teleporters, but like 4 different starting positions, so one cannot be camped all day.
Less Keeps/Towers with guards, merely keeps without guards and doors
Old NF Bridges.
No Agramon.
No classic Ruleset ! Playing without all the new stats/abilites/toa etc. ist boring, classic was fun in the days past. But nowadays I'd be bored missing like 30 abilities I could use during a fight. Looking at phoenix I realized having only classic limits me.
I know the fotm is easy and boring gameplay without any hurdles to overcome , but overcoming those and becoming better is part of the fun, maybe the biggest part in it.
If people wanted classic, Cathal valley would be overflowing with groups all day. Clear evidence.
DAOC became great because it is highly complex and takes months to really master a class (if you don't 24/7 but just play). If you are not willing to dig in, this game is not for you. I suggest flapping bird or candy crush instead.
Add some RP gained by friend vs. foe ratio in an area of like 3500 around your group. So zerging 80 vs 30 will result in like 5 rp gained. So people will not just join the biggest zerg but fight against it.
So running down solos for a 8 man is not worth it, but instead looking for other 8mans or the zerg to harass.
Change Realm timer to 12 hours, so people have to decide what to play for the day and can not bend like a straw in the wind and just become a wtj.
So overall, I'd like to see a total FZ revamp to accomodate for the lower playerbase
Drop unique boss mobs every month in pvp zones that give a monthly bonus to the realm that defeats them.
I just watched a streamer talk about how boring it was. Well duh, you can't just "hope" people are going to keep doing the same exact pvp content. I remember the days we used to mez group after group and pbaoe bomb them, forcing people to log, because they couldn't stage an attack around anything except buildings.
Have players stage attacks on the regular for meaningful pvp boss mobs. If you claim that they are always adding new boss mobs in pvp zones, then it's clear that the rewards aren't good enough, due to population.
In case you make the move of bringing these new servers out, and leave out all the rich pve content from original game, please give an old schooler like myself a reason to play, other than (mezball, pbaoe, make people log) I saw this about 18-15 years ago as my group did it to people.
If there is no meaningful reward or glory, then you will see the population as you currently have.
Not fully buffed... no need to get out...
Not in a nearly perfect temp.... no need to get out...
Not RR11 up..... no need to get out....
Not cheating.... no need to get out...
Not using all possible automations... no need to get out...
Not playing fotm-chars.... no need to get out....
Just a few fanboys with mental problems are denying that.
But thats fine, BS is catering the game around them to get some bucks... so it be...
Lets just forget about ywaine and let the "pros" stew in their own filth....
A new server has to be real classic server...
As the game was at relaese...
Obviously no TOA or later crap... thats what killed the game in the first place...
Leveling has to take ages...
Every level gained has to have a meaning...
Crafting has to take ages...
Every point gained has to have a meaning...
Obviously no transfer from Ywaine.
Obviously no realm-hopping.
Obviously no P2W.
And obviously, cant stress too much, no TOA-bonuses or equip....
If they can manage to limit TOA to PVE than fine, but without ANY connection to PVP.
Mahv
You might want to correct yourself. Straight from their Grabbag (22/01/2021):
"...our work continues on the alternate, "classic" ruleset server and we look forward to sharing our plans with you very soon!"
No, BS did not say "Alternative ruleset server" as you put it -
BS said " alternate, "classic" ruleset server".
Pretty clear there bud.
Please, keep in mind, when you quote something, you lose credibility when you change/remove words from the quote and context that it comes from. Either you did this by accident (pretty easy to do if you didn't read the whole thing), or you did this on purpose. Either way, not a good look for ya.
Actually, longer leveling times serves more purposes than what you have mentioned, and I am not even agreeing with everything you said there.
Xp/farming is ALSO done for social purposes but again, not the sole reason and I won't even claim that it is. That you can not deny, even if put side by side with your supposed "primary" purpose of to "learn their class". I think it is funny you are even bringing this up, since you didn't argue against a purported thesis that the majority of a potential market for daoc's alternative classic ruleset server may only bring in old players and not bring in new players (I don't agree with this analogy, just repeating it for reference), why then would you even bring up the "learn their classes" argument?
Or was this your attempt to kill any idea of slower xp rates than what you are used to on Ywain in your vain attempt to sabotage interest in the new server?
How about these reasons for slower xp rates. Filters. Yes, believe it or not, when someone has to invest multiple double digit hours for each individual character on their account, then they will be less likely to do 2 things --
They will be less likely to mis-behave, or even attempt out right rule breaking, such as using illegal macro programs, radar, fly hacks, bug exploitations, etc -- which are a major thorn in the feet of any retail game.
Next, for DAOC, these folks will be less likely to "realm hop". This filter actually helps to encourage realm loyalty, and realm pride.
I get that you are an advocate for realm hopping, as most current players of Ywain very well may engage in that activity. However, you are forgetting one very important thing here -- in the context of this new server, current Ywain players are NOT the target audience.
Look at it another way -- no one is going to FORCE you to play on this new server. This new server will only serve to help bring players to your greatly vaunted Ywain (that seems to be floundering for some reason(s).. hm....)
I have asked this before, and I am going to ask again -- Since no one is forcing you to play on this new server, wat gives you the authority to attempt to force any potential new players (or old returning players who haven't played on live daoc in over 13 years) to play on Ywain? Don't you get it? Most of those guys will NEVER play on Ywain, and have NOT in over a decade, you nor anyone else can argue the evidence of this fact.
And once again, one more question that I dare you to answer with honest truth -- why WOULDN'T BS bring this new server back online with the great potential benefit of having thousands of re-subs coming back, of which, will be bringing many of their friends who have never played on live before (but for on certain freeshards), many of whom would actually be interested in checking out Ywain?
What have you got to lose in this venture?
Or shall we all (players/BS staff) keep beating our heads on the wall trying to come up with some unknown solution that has yet to work or to be seriously addressed in the last 13 years (since the clustered servers were forced merged into TOA)?
Or how about we go back to a winning/working money maker server ruleset. And this time leave it the hell up side by side with Ywain with their rulesets that allow for realm hopping and silver spoon fed near insta 50 leveling and lets let the entire community see for themselves once and for all who is actually right in this argument? If you are right, then what are you afraid of?
I say, put your money where your mouth is -- literally. You and your kind sub for Ywain and stay there and mind your own business (cause we see how well that's been working, ROFL... not), and the rest of us will sub up for the new server (old) ruleset.
"A new server has to be real classic server...
As the game was at relaese...
Obviously no TOA or later crap... thats what killed the game in the first place...
Leveling has to take ages...
Every level gained has to have a meaning...
Crafting has to take ages...
Every point gained has to have a meaning..."
Right on. I especially liked "Every level gained has to have a meaning..."
Oh, and for you wow fanbois out there.. no wow was NOT what caused the downfall of daoc. WoW came out Nov. 2004, where as DAOC TOA was released in Oct. 2003, meaning 13 MONTHS after TOA.
Mahv, this next part is not directed at you in the least, but thank you for mentioning TOA. This opens the door for me to address the assertion of TOA being the downfall of DAOC of which I am a full supporter of along with you.
So time to give you clowns a bit of an accounting education here and what it means to "subscribe", and what the majority of players in any game do with their subscriptions when given options and incentives for longer subs.
I do not know if current DAOC still offers these sub options, but back in the time period between oct 2001 through 2007/8 (when clustered were forced merged into Ywain (ToA at the time)), we had these options for subbing:
1 Month
3 Months
6 Months
12 Months
With each new longer option, we were given a bigger discount so that in effect, a 1 year sub total payment was around 10 single month payments. Most players were NOT subbing for 1 month, and the vast majority were doing it for more than 3 months with every resub time period.
Now knowing this little nugget (seriously, some of y'all need to go to a school that teaches some basic economics) and then looking at the time frame of when WoW came out, and when TOA came out, then some pretty logical conclusions can be drawn here, REGARDLESS of what some ignorant youtube user who is attempting to monetize and perpetrate with his inaccurate analysis that WoW was the death of DAOC. Anyone with brains can see the flaw in his logic.
So here we go with the inaccurate claim that WoW was the death of DAOC, in stead of TOA. Problem with this is timing. Plain and simple. I can almost buy this argument if perhaps DAOC's population had a huge sudden drop off in the thousands over a 2-3 month period of time AFTER WoW came out. Problem with here is, that the drop off with the subs was already starting 6 months BEFORE WoW was released! ... Hey guess what.. that lines right up with the DAOC subscription option cycles that correlate with when the ToA expansion was released.... I wonder how much that youtuber was paid by someone behind the scenes to try to make up his weird cockeymamey story... makes one wonder...
Anyhow.. when we fast forward another 6 more months AFTER TOA was released... there goes the rest of the DAOC 1 year subs (which includes those who resubbed right before TOA came out) out the window, never to return... a full MONTH before WoW was distributed to your local retail stores.
Now, not saying there wasn't a continued drop off AFTER WoW was released, of which I do not argue because it is obviously correct... but the more interesting question in this is, how many of the ones who quit DAOC over TOA supposedly would be willing to give it another go if classic was brought back online (regardless of what game they were playing at the time, including the top one at the time, being WoW).
So Mythic brought classic back online around the time frame of late 2005, early 2006.. and lo and behold, it was a "miracle"! Don't like this analysis? Well, too fricking bad, cause this is ACTUAL history here.... thousands of players
returned to the game, with MOST of them sticking around up to the ill-fated announcement of forced merger into Ywain.
There has also been conjecture as to why Gareth/Lamorak/Ector were forced merged into Ywain.. which ranged from cost of maintaining the servers, to some supposed massive population decline. I distinctly recall seeing over 4000 players on the clustered servers before the TOA ill fated merger announcement, and then literally overnight that pop dropped below 800. Now who's fault is that? Wasn't the players by any means... so unless the clustered servers monthly bills were costing over 20K a month (which is seriously doubted when we know that a monthly hosting fee for this kind of server will range from 100 to upwards of 300/month)... then it didn't make any sort of financial sense to take that ruleset down.... unless it was the TOA ruleset servers that were the ones that were having population problems, which again, is what actually was going on as, NONE of them were able to get over 1200 while the classic clustered servers were online!
So long story short on this -- Mythic banked on (and subsequently lost their shirts on this failed market move) their gaming customers to be more loyal than what they were, and being forced to play on a ruleset that they made clear once before in 2004 they refused to play. Mythic's gaming customers by and large were having none of this nonsense and left again instead of being directed to play on a the TOA ruleset for a 2nd time.
But now, we have new management now that appears to have learned the pitfalls of some of these egregious mistakes and faulty analysis their forerunners made with the community, and are willing to take a serious look at doing something that will bring back their cash cow.
My primary concern with the new server is that it will suffer from staleness quickly since, as we've seen with BS, they're not particularly quick at providing updates in terms of content or bug fixes. They will be directly competing with another server that does this on a whim. Maybe I'll be wrong and the server will flourish, but I suspect it will end up similar to the current competitions predecessor. I understand you're all banking on nostalgia for the success of a classic server. I'm suggesting your nostalgia is fleeting and a classic era server with modern QoL will be better in the long run.
One last bit of concern from an active subscriber, there will be a split in resources from the development team. As I've already stated, BS struggles to manage Ywain. Adding another server without a boost in resources will likely cripple their development process. I'm not worried about a population jump or lower population on Ywain. I'm worried about the development strain that may lead to the downfall of official DAoC altogether. The new server has to be done right, whether it's to cater to the nostalgia folks or breech a compromise, to increase their development resources. The ball is in their court at the end of the day so we'll see what they say in the coming weeks (hopefully not months).
One way to avoid staleness could be to add later patches but change certain thing from those patches, like not including Master Level Abilities, stat caps, Trials of Atlantis stats and Artifacts. This would allow for new items that is not necessary but not useless. Bugs they have had to adress before, and have seen the results of their way to handle it, can be reevaluated and handled again with a knowledge of what worked and what didn't work the first time around. The difference between the free shards and live is that live need to take the right decisions to not compromise their income. I hope they will love the chance to have a second go at it and implement more appriciated, by their player base, solutions to the gaming experience and the balance between the realms without making the classes mirrors of each other.
If the alternate "classic" ruleset server is able to generate more income that could justify hiring more people to work with Ywain, Gaheris and the alternate "classic" ruleset server. If the alternate "classic" ruleset server is a failure I don't think the other servers will be kept alive very long anyway, EA probably don't want to keep something that just barely pays for it self and don't generate any net income to speak of. If on the other hand the alternate "classic" ruleset server generates a high income EA would want to keep the game alive. I think the subscription income the game generates after 9-12 months of the alternate "classic" ruleset server have been launched will have a big influence on whether the game, apart from free shards, will be around at all in 2 years time, and if it economically justifies hiring more people it will be beneficial for all servers.
Allow a level 20 boost to any account that has a level 50 character on it, as it was in the glory days. Allow character transfer from Ywain with only classic gear, and no realm points.
I will be posting new ideas, of no more than two short paragraphs, on a daily basis.
Cheers,
Ermmuss
I dont understand the lack of any advertising for this game. It;s not like this game is a trash tier MMO that nobody knows about, i think alot of people who would potentially play this game just needs reminding that it actually exists.
Also spawn randomized bosses, ones that would take atleast 4 people to kill, would always present a different random challenge, on a 30 min timer within each BG that would give a large amount of xp if killed. You could stay in BGS all the way from 20-50.
Cheers,
Ermmuss
I guess, advertisement is too expensive. I dont know any other reason.
#1 Can't halve the population
#2 so new server has "season" that when time is alloted the said character is locked until next event or stage maybe run 3 months and lock and repeat with another toon then at 12 month mark can have a grand championship of sorts for rare gear, rps, kills, goals set to meet requirements, maybe that's how can get pve involved require x amount of said kill tasks, even if minute, cause I'm not really into the reset idea, enough of this stupid talk here.
#3 have a realm timer that's random cooldown 2-8 hrs be well enough not to ruin the loyalty and playerbase.
#4 Relics are meant to add more power and perks, so why not have a system of if 1 realm owns them all they get perks but all keeps and doors are dropped in lvls, 72hr hold time on each relic then gone, if have all 6 then can basically cash them in for a new Relic of Bounty that would spawn in random locations locations, instead it be top end gear, supplies, random crates for lucrative bonuses, all that's there gets the loot, non tradeable drops, with system on a random cooldown timer for the claiming realm of a day or sor something and again enough there...
#5 revamp si/housing/blend of OF/NF
But all in all needs to be 2.0 needs to be in the works, I heard the Steam rumors and EA will be the hold back on it, but a revamp and able to cross platform would be a step in the right direction, not sure the limits on Steam, not ran it but I'd have said if Da0c went there I give it a try, I've played off and on since launch but this last run was a bit of downer, plus by looks I'll be losing my LGM crafters, I vote to keep ywain for maybe "veteran events" if anything ywain can be the instant fights or primetime rollers, I do like the nostalgia, but as stated that only goes so far, pve sucks but farming certain drops and making new friends and all learning their new toons it does help some, but p2w isn't the option, like the cosmetic stuff some, but the instant lvl bs is lame
YES YES YES!!!!!
I Recommend this post!
A True Classic Server. Ywain is dead. No one wants to compete with rr12's and have to spend 500+ myth for a temp.
Make the leveling long and grueling and epics mean something. Only RVR in the Frontiers. Just like the beginning.
I honestly will keep pushing for a similar pve grind as the early days (pre-toa). A 50 level toon needs to hold value for its level again. The season idea sounds good.
If seasons, it could be X amount of months as you stated, and provide lifetime account rewards. They could go ahead and expedite leveling quite a bit, 4x in pve zones, 8x in pvp zones for mob kills, if the season idea takes effect. They could also expedite realm points earned.
someone who levels only in pve could make 50 in 1 month, if they averaged a couple of hours a day gameplay. So 2 weeks to 50 if they killed mobs in pvp zones/BGs. 2 months of pvp(considering they aren't losing too much) to hit RR10. Dont allow more than RR10 on classic servers. If its seasons it will reset every 3 months, if its not seasons, it will take a very long time to get there anyway.
I think that sort of slow xp grind was more fun when you didn’t know what new toys the next level offered. Now everyone knows what new stuff the next level brings and there’s no mystery left. Maybe if there were new abilities waiting for you around the corner or something I dunno.
An official server, supported by those with the license, that let's you know your 50 is worth something.
I've said it once and I don't mind saying it again. Asking to only have a half-game, with no actually leveling journey, is what you already have on Ywain, and asking for that to be on the classic servers will just be a wasted attempt at bringing something that could be great.
I would accept patches after Shrouded isles as long as there was no:
Master Level abilities
Stat caps
ToA stats
Artifacts
Champion Levels
Mythyríans (that has any effect in RvR, in other words they only gives bonuses in the new patch zones)
Races/classes that came with patches after Shrouded Isles
Should not be very hard to add new stats/procs/uses to the items, in the patches after SI, to make them equal to the items that was available in the 1.65 patch.
It should be possible to purchase the high end drops with either bounty points or with one alternate currency (for example Dragon Scales), but it should take some time to get hold of enough alternate currency to purchase one high end item so that Dragon raids, SI-dungeon raids and the later patch raids are still worth attending.
As I said, would not oppose to ToA zones being implemented, but remove the MLs, new stats, stat caps, artifacts and ToA races. Make the items recieved from the different encounters in ToA equal to the items that existed before ToA. Keep the trophies and don't make them available for purchase for any currency, you need to do the encounter, and in some cases win the lottery, to get the trophy (or pay alot of gold for it to the person that won).
They have not done this before on live, only time it was close to that is when there was a healthy population on the servers, that population dropped alot when ToA was released. I believe Master Levels and Artifacts had a big impact on that development. I suggest removing the other stuff that requires complete template remakes as well.
I have also mentioned, on several occasions, earlier in this thread that I think power leveling should be discouraged by lowering the xp/mob a character gets if there is a much higher level character in the group.
Removing toa does not remove half of the game that classic was. I am only saying there should be a meaningful pve experience during leveling.
Moderna groups were the absolute best way to level back in the day.
I did put my earlier ideas in this thread for expedited leveling in classic. They could simply keep dungeons such as vendo caverns, and spindelhalla; Renovate those dungeons in such a way that people would gather again. The loss of meaningful social interaction is what led to stagnation.
Honestly if Toa never was released, I believe that daoc would be twice as strong today. Wow did a number also on all games afterward.
I will use an analogy from my time in the service.
We used to do these long and exhausting ruck marches, and runs. We grew together from the difficult times.
The reason anything, including a video game stagnates, is because there stops being a difficult time. For example, in daoc currently, I watched a streamer talk about how bored he was after running over an 8 man and then standing in front of a sparcely defended enemy keep for an hour with his zerg. There it is, THAT BIG RVR GAMEPLAY. The winners get bored, and losers say "why bother".
They could also tie everything together. Pve and pvp. Leveling mostly in battlegrounds or old frontier, with some uniquely presented pve for leveling/gearing also.
If the journey isnt difficult enough, then the journey will be boring.
When I last played you could buy MLs and Artifacts with Atlantean Glass and/or Bounty points, together with crafting quality 100% charges.
I don't think Master Level Abilities, ToA stats, stat caps or Artifacts should be in the game at all. To remove them would also make the implementation of ToA better than it was back when ToA was released. It would aslo keep more of the items from classic and SI zones viable in templates, making activity in more zones due to the competetive items being more evenly spread out.
Sorry kid but your 2 20 year accounts aren’t enough to pay broadswords rent.
Anywho. ToA is fine where it's at. The classic server aims to appeal to a player base that struggles to handle more than two bars of abilities (sometimes one) and cater to a nostalgic crowd. I'm all for it if it means we get regular updates on Ywain.
There are alot of potential DAoC players that doesn't think ToA is fine where it is, or even where it was, for more reasons than just the time you had to invest. These people constitutes a big portion of the people that should be attracted back to DAoC, the alternate "classic" ruleset server is a great oppurtunity for Broadsword to achieve that, if the server is done right.
It is funny how you believe you are a more accomplished player just because you enjoy a game very few enjoy, and to defend your self esteem claims that it is because only the less accomplished players left when they didn't like the game anymore, it is very cute in a way :-) and quite sad in another...
Live DAoC is currently self sustainable. No evidence to suggest otherwise.
A classic server is a simpler version of DAoC. You and other like-minded ex-players are banking on scratching the nostalgia itch and will continue to find fault with the game regardless of what is released on said server.
Good luck chasing the dragon.
I doubt it but you are right in that I do not have any evidence to prove it, I have no insight in EA or the economical reports they recieve from the Dark Age of Camelot branch of their organization. I doubt you have any insight regarding that either, I just find it strange that a game can pay for it self with such low population.
I know you insist on it being simpler because it is less /uses, and perhaps even abilities, but less /uses and abilities doesn't necessarily mean the skill cap is lower. With enemies that is not coded to do certain things at certain instances there is more to take into consideration and you learn what different player controlled enemies do and how they change their tactics over time and you have to adapt, with very few enemies it is easier to adapt with many enemies it takes a bit more, a successful alternate "classic" ruleset server will bring more enemies than is available on Ywain.
I intend to kill the dragon a few times, there are drops I would like from that encounter.
See Warhammer: Age of Reckoning.
DAoC is a video game with preset limitations regardless of who is behind the keyboard. The number of abilities is finite which also dictates the finite combination of said abilities. Population has nothing to do with this. The frequency in which you interact with another player (i.e. player density) scales proportionally with population. However, this has no bearing on the skill ceiling or complexity of game play. The unofficial server is a prime example.
You intend to zerg the dragon down for a chance to /random 1000 a drop.
Surely you see a pattern by now
Seriously if DAoC was a stock would you buy it? If you honestly answered yes to that please explain your reasoning.
A new server has been teased about for multiple years. No measurable progress has been made suggesting there is no immediate need to remedy the current situation.
The F2P campaign is basically an indefinite trial. Endless Conquest is not true F2P due to the severe limitations it has. I personally disagree with the approach BS took with this.
Concurrent server population has been hidden since EA took over the game. This has nothing to do with success / failure.
Edit to address your latter point. EA is a publicly traded entity that owns DAoC. So yes, you can buy stock in the game technically. Would I invest directly into the BS team? No. I'd rather see it change hands for different reasons than being discussed in this thread.
John changes the recipe. John averages 25 daily customers. John tweaks the recipe further and announces free samples. John now averages 10 daily customers.
Judy discovers Bens original recipe and opens up a lemonade stand. Judy averages 50 daily customers.
John averages 5 daily customers. John announces he’s going to start offering Bens original lemonade.
(Johns 5 customers insist the lemonade is the best it’s ever been)
The number of abilities is finite in all patches of DAoC what is your point? Of course the size of the population doesn't change the number of abilities available for any class, the bigger number of variations of abalities used by one enemy class does however force you to prepare for a bigger variation of enemies and adapt in that way. While a small amount of enemies, which are all more or less cookie cutter, will be detrimental for variation.
It is funny how you use deductive reasoning when it suits your means, pretty much every argument you have used in this thread. Only Sherlock Holmes can use that type of reasoning and he is fictional, the truth is written down to suit his deductive reasoning in that universe.
If you're arguing about what is more popular, then DAoC is a failure altogether. No new DAoC server will ever compete with a modern MMO in terms of population and profit. This game and its genre are niche. CU made that abundantly clear. An additional server is unnecessary to keep DAoC running. It would have been done already if that was the case. There is no sense of urgency from the development team because there is no need for it.
The freeshard dealt it a pretty significant blow in that I suspect we wouldn’t even be talking about an alternate server had it never launched. I absolutely believe the broadsword team is operating dangerously close to the threshold it needs to stay above in order to remain solvent. Such is the impetus for their recent talk about this supposed server they have in the works.
I’m no fool. I don’t anticipate DAoC will ever be able to achieve anything beyond 1-2k players worldwide at this point. As far as I’m concerned the game has reached all of the players it’s ever going to reach. But whether or not it gets that needed bump in population to stay afloat for an extra while longer will only (maybe) be realized with a fresh new server. If things are left alone Ywains population will eventually dwindle to 500, 300, 200 etc.
Nailed it IMO
@Grizlie You're right. Live suffered a large blow back in January 2019. I was there when the population dropped steeply. They attempted to address that issue with Endless Conquest; however, it didn't work as well as those of us who stayed behind hoped (as expected). The population is not quite back to where it was, but it's close. They were worried in 2019. There was no April Fools patch notes. That never happened before. There was in 2020 and likely will be in 2021. Considering there is no legal means for BS to attack the freeshards, I suspect the classic server is their answer. It has little to do with keeping the game running and more to do with taking back the players that were "stolen" from them. Hopefully they learned that what keeps the freeshards alive has nothing to do with old PvE grinds.