Hibernia is NOT overpowered
I would just like to say Hibernia is not overpowered...
BUT..
When you are defending against higher number at keeps you need to be able to fight back, Herorius zerging isnt the problem.
I have and do play both EU and US times and it is clear Hibs are not overpowered in zerg verses zerg with even numbers, infact, I would say its 50/50 against both Mids and Hibs playing as an alb.
All that being said when you have Hibs attacking a keep with fewer numbers the Stun becomes a BIG problem. When you defend against mids you can poke your head out and nuke or interrupt there can be no good defence against hibs with larger numbers.
For example.
As an Alb you poke your head out and 3 casters are spamming nearest target, face, stun and you are screwed. First time thats fine, Purge, do it again, 1min later Stun, its cool, I have stun feedback up so you make it back, now they have you targeted and just wait for you to try again, purge is down, no mezz feedback, even with single target heals if you are stuck there for 5-6 secs the other hibs notice you in view and naturally switch target and nuke you down. Rince and repeat but your purge is down for atleast 5 mins and you cant poke your head out without being stunned again every time to you poke your head out.
Now as much as I hate Hib stun on "Real" damage dealing nukers, and I do hate it. <shudder>
I would defend a keep everyday from mids as they do not have the ability to lock down defenders after Purge and Stun feedback is down, infact that maybe why mids dont even attempt keeps I would imagine, its just harder.
I know Blah blah blah Alb calling for a nerf of Hib stun again but like I said, I dont not think its a problem in Zerg vs Zerg, smaller numbers defending keeps its a HUGE problem and you cannot defend against it.
I dont have a solution for you as its been in the game for such a long time, I do know Albs are not going to even play during EU time soon.
How about keep the stun but make the immunity 7-10 mins and increase it if thats not enough. Still an I win but only if you are using it at the right time and you cant spam. This will break the smite cleric I imagine.
On a side note.
Bard insta amneisa needs to be changed to castible and maybe a single target insta on a 1 min cooldown.
Comments
NS > SB
Eldy > Runie
Chanter > SM
Ment > Warlock
Hero > Warrior
BM = Zerker or Savage
Ranger > Hunter
Champ > Skald
Druid > Shaman
Bard > Healer
Warden > Valk
Animist or Bain > BD
I’ll give Midgard the Thane over the VW, but not by much lol.
Hib obviously OP.
Da fly family - 4501 4502 4503 4504 4506 4508 4509
Da spider family - 441 442 443 444 445 447
Ywain 1 Mid - Carlingford Hib - Tullamore Alb - Dalton
https://divoxutils.com/user-characters
At least you didnt compare a NS to a healer.
Chanter > SM?
Bain > BD?
Man I want what you sre smoking
Hibs are too used to casted stun on list casters for it to be removed.
Do I think the game would be better and more playable with this removed... absolutely.
Do I see this ever happening... not with the current state of the game.
Some of the matchups are up for debate. Some of them don’t mirror each as much as other do. But it’s previous obvious to me that almost every Hib equivalent, of a Mid toon is better than the Mid version.
Hib has better casters, supports, hyrbids, and stealthers than Mid. Mid has better tanks? Barely.
Da fly family - 4501 4502 4503 4504 4506 4508 4509
Da spider family - 441 442 443 444 445 447
Ywain 1 Mid - Carlingford Hib - Tullamore Alb - Dalton
https://divoxutils.com/user-characters
Regardless, you fail to mention the impact bolt range mez from Alb has had on the game, or the AE stun mid uses, or the various snares added to the game, which all make the gameplay worse for everyone at the wrong end of the "I win" button. It's all trash, and should be treated accordingly.
As I said the problem is not Hib having stun, the problem is the advantage it give them while attacking in greater numbers, it is not a problem to fight mids when outnumbered in a keep like I said. Its not fun and they will not defend.
This is not a problem when it is Mids.
You cannot defend a keep at all when you are out numbered 2 or 3 to 1 against hibs, and I dont mean any realm should win in that situation but it is hopeless to defend against 50-60 hibs with 16 maybe albs when you cannot even cast down after the first 3 mins having blown purge and stun feedback.
An immunity timer of 10 mins on single target stun damage dealing class doesnt make the ability less useful.
All the classes with stun in hib have atleast 1 other form of CC.
Just to round it out, Bards and Healers have an Insta mezz to combat bolt mezz.
Bards have 2 insta amneisa on short reuse that negate that bolt range mezz and can keep any caster shut down constantly.
But this in not about comparing all classes, I am telling you why Hero gets the blame for killing the game and that is NOT the problem and Hibs are not overpowered.
Healer > Bard Yeah bard has a single and an AE insta amnesia on a RUT. 2000 range. Healer has Amnesia castable 2300 range no RUT.
Mind sorc has an insta mezz as well.
If healers dont need such an overpowered ability niether does bard.
I find the mez battle argument to be extremely silly. The reality is whoever spots the other group(s) first wins the mez. When both groups are aware of each other, then winning the mez is no longer a top priority unless the opposing groups don't know how to split or use their RAs. Interrupting is generally the better tool to use during fights since mez is easily cured or lasts less than the 10 seconds on Det9 + Stoicism tanks. Bolt range roots are far more effective than mez simply because there's a timer on the cure root unlike cure mez. Either way, CC is completely target dependent and situational. I doubt any groups rely on "winning the mez" in 2020 DAoC. Unless you're bombing a clump of players.
Anyways the bard was secondary, back on topic 10 min immunity on casted stun anyone?
Regarding the stun suggestion, a 10 minute immunity makes no sense for an ability that lasts ~5-6 seconds for a grouped player (less on det9 + stoicism tanks). Here's an idea if we go with the above plan to remove instant amnesia. Only give Mentalists baseline stun and remove it from Eldritches and Enchanters. I imagine players will still find a reason to complain but it's better than some of the suggestions I've seen so far, imo of course.
@Stoopiduser a bard needs a long range rupt. Right now it's insta amnesia, which is good considering how a bard plays. Remove a long range rupt from a bard and sorcs will eat hib groups alive. Don't be blinded by your hatred of the casted stun and try to think.
Healers have every single spell available to them, however it is a high skill cap class. Sadly, a mid group depends heavily on having a good pac, hib groups are easier cause a bard is easier to play.
Biggest issue on mid is that the skald has SoS. What a waste.
Why do we still think baseline stun is OP? Because ppl die in a siege fight?
Don't be blinded by your reflex defend Hib at all cost.
Bards would have the same range rupt as every other casting class in the game, a castable spell not a I win by closing down any caster I like while healing/mezzing/demezzing/rezzing..
And again this is not aimed at Bards due to the subject being about keep sieges and defenders not having fun causing them to log out without having fun or switching realm.
Actually it was ani/bain>bd
Ani is >BD by a MILE. Bain is meh since all the other hib classes are so OP.
Chanter is group uber. SM is also one of mids best classes, so I would have personally given this a tie or POSSIBLY to SM.
Thane and SM over their respective hib classes. Are you still saying hibs not OP?
This is the ever returning falacy.
Please display the healer spec that has "every single spell available to them".
It's like someone arguing that a bard could spec 50 weapon, 50 songs, 50 rej and 50 enhance. While they have a TON more spec points than a healer, they still have to pick and choose, and one character can only spec for one character.
Says the almost r13 bard.
Exactly, Ani over BD by a mile. Don’t sleep on the Bain. PBAE fear, single fear, AE nearsight, demezz, AE Bolt!
Da fly family - 4501 4502 4503 4504 4506 4508 4509
Da spider family - 441 442 443 444 445 447
Ywain 1 Mid - Carlingford Hib - Tullamore Alb - Dalton
https://divoxutils.com/user-characters
So what IS an "acceptable" time for you to not win? 4 to 1? 18 to 1?
Your user name is spot on.
Nah, I'll just roll a stunnukenukenuke caster instead and farm you in keeps so you can make cry posts about it like the OP.
"Remove cc completely items an I win button" like ????
So I should know that a Healer > bard. But I have a RR11 Healer as well. My healer is speced 44Pac 31 Mend I have Root, mez, insta mezz, ae mezz, insta ae mezz, stun, insta stun, ae stun, insta ae stun, demezz, amensia, ae amensia, confusion Single target heals, insta heals, ae heals, spread heals, insta ae heals, DI, plus more. I think that covers a lot more than a bard. If the best you got is insta Amnesia and Cloak.
Oh Nooo, please dont call me Stoopid, bless you
I dont care about getting killed at a seige, I do care people are not having fun and people not playing or logging on during EU time. As should you.
Again, Secondary..
So you admit Insta Amnesia is OP?
Demezz
Mezz
Ae mezz
Insta single mezz
Insta ae mezz
Root
Stun (11 sec delve, holy **** 2 sec longer than hib stun)
Ae stun (9 sec, damn that's pretty long)
Insta single stun
Insta ae stun
Single amnesia (casted)
Ae amnesia (casted)
Attack speed debuff
Celerity
Good major and greater heals
Single insta heal
Group insta heal
Spreadheal
Perfect recovery
DI
Forceful zephyr
BoF
Phase shift
That's only like 23 good abilities. You could also remove aug completely and only lose celerity, but gain either stronger cc or stronger heals.
Highest utility bard spec would look like 44 nurt, 37 music 32 reg.
Demezz
Mezz
Ae mezz
Root
Single insta mezz
Ae insta mezz
Confuse
Mezz damp
Major and greater heals
Insta ae amnesia
Single insta amnesia
2x single DDs
SoS
Phase shift
Forceful zephyr
Blade side snare
That's 16ish abilities. I think the healer wins the ability contest by a mile.
The only difference is that a bard can cycle through his amnesia and DDs, while the healer has all forms of cc and can spam amnesia.
I'm not a pro hib, I played a lot of hib, played a lot of alb, played less mid.
Ok a ES bain is strong, when you design your group around it. It's on the body train, which isn't great. You have to go out of your way to include it in a group.
Ae bolts? Really that's an argument? That thing is good at clearing theurg pets and breaking cc. ES bain has no cc, that's a pretty big deterrent. I played in a group with a ES bain and yes it is strong.
Stronger than a SM, gtfo of here. SM is the strongest caster in the game, hands down. Even after the lifetap was nerfed it's still the best caster.
Creep ani is stronger than a BD, mainly for the bolt range ae root. BD has a longer rupt, but single target. Other than that, I'd consider the rupting power of the pets pretty equivalent. Supp BD has crazy utility, BA did get nerfed after years of ridicule, dark is meh. A bit like Arb that is a very meh spec, the delay in the dps kinda ruins all the high delve dps they have in that line.
@MrZerg is just a dumb troll, not even entertaining.
Something needs to be done with hib stun at keeps, I would vote for immunity timer to be increased ALOT so keeps can be defended against higher number hibs, as stated not an issue against Mids.
Again secondary.
And for some reason the Hib players dont like you discussing changing instant amnesia to a short cast time, I dont know why.. oh wait thats because Bards are top of the CC game by a mile as its OP to shutdown any caster at all with instant amnesia while mezzing/demezzing/rezzing/healing.
Or perhaps the coordinated aspect is the problem. I guess the world will never know.
Go watch some irc fights as they distroy the hibs on their mids. or watch some of the drafts. If you have a good bard, it will seem OP, if you have a good healer /sorc same thing.
So you cant mezz or at the very least group heal while hitting an amnesia insta? How strange I can nuke and debuff.
I dont know who you think you are fooling appart from yourself, I wouldnt want to give it up either.
and @puter if stun at keep seige isnt a problem, its not a problem to give up stunning the same person every 1 min.
"Great talk about Healer v Bard!! in conclusion, nerf baseline stun lol"
Great laughs in this thread.
Can we clump Mez and Root with your proposed Stun nerf too since they aren't a problem in keep sieges? How about debuffs? Where do we draw the line exactly? Remove CC? This is the wrong game if that's the goal. XD
No need to put yourself down pretending to not understand what is being said.
Its is not a problem against Mids like i said its still fun and not pointless to try.
If you cannot have fun people log off.
Hey I am farmed all day everyday i dont mind as i still have fun mostly but Alb numbers are dropping fast.
CC is the "i win" button, duh.
Why cant you see that i am not attacking hib i am trying to improve the experience for the last few of us even trying to defend in Alb.
/macro assist /assist <ma's name>
We've identified the problem. You're attempting to play casually against an organized BG when they have a numbers advantage. Good luck trying to fix that by removing stun nuke.
P.S. I play all three realms during NA prime time. Just haven't played on Ywain recently. Still waiting on BS to make the game experience worth $15 / month. But that's a separate issue.
This is not a problem against Mids.
I cannot be anymore clear than that.
Mids cant defend against hibs either, they dont even try AT ALL. Annamarie doesnt even defend with teh numbers he gets.
Albs dont have BG leader so they dont Zerg somewhere else, they log having had a bad night and cant be arsed to log in at all.
When hero logs in alb log out some of them join him others dont play.
Just shut the server down, if BS is unable to create numbers.