I’d like a Classic/SI server again but with better leveling than the old days. No one wants to take months to hit 50 again. Make some changes to crafting so items would have different types of bonuses to them and make it worthwhile again.
No ToA!! It led to the first exodus and would likely do the same again with it’s “haves” versus “not have” dilemma.
But, to each their own I suppose.
Toa didn't lead to a exodus when they brought toa out there subscription base went up. Watch a death of a game daoc great video.
TOA definately was the deathblow to DAOC.
Myself and many many others i know quit because of TOA.
But there were also many new players which wanted to see the new areas...
So DAOC died because of 2 reasons...
1. The old and most reliable playerbase quit because of the TOA-BS.
2. The players which just wanted to have a look quit because they were done with the game.
Leasson:
It was WoW that killed DAOC. I hate to admit it, because I think that game is garbage, but it's true.
It is my contention that it was both ToA and WoW.
There's a video on youtube "Death of a Game" concerning DAoC. The narrator/poster did a relatively decent job with his research, however, I believe he failed with his analysis that "ToA was not responsible for the death of DAoC". His assertion that ToA was not responsible, imo, is incorrect due to the time period of the drop off of the sub accounts. He assumed that just because the sub accounts didn't drop off immediately within the first couple months of the introduction of ToA, then ToA is not responsible. What he failed to realize was that during that time period, we as players had several options for subbing our accounts. One was able to choose between 1 month, 90 days, 6 months, and 1 year. The narrator/poster based his assertion using the 1 month subscriptions without giving us the total number of each type of timed subscriptions at the time that ToA was introduced. Coincidently, WoW pops up some months later, and then presto, we then see a drop off of TOTAL number of subscriptions - including all the longer termed subs!
A more likely conclusion that can be made from this is: ToA although may not have been popular with the community, it was tolerated up until a new similar game (WoW) with newer graphics and new content was brought online in direct competition. THEN is when we saw the effects of all the previously timed subs that included the 6 month and yearly NOT being renewed in DAoC.
Now, not much Broadsword can do about WoW other than try to make their own product and services better and more competitive in order to survive. Hell, that's what capitalism is all about.
But there's the rub, BS CAN fix what part their own product DID play in that whole TOA/WoW sub-cancelling fiasco.
What we learned from the 2005-2007 era with the Classic + SI + Housing servers that Mythic brought back, was there was indeed thousands of players who wanted to play that ruleset, even more so at certain times of the day than those playing the ToA servers at the time (and don't forget WoW was going strong with millions of players by now).
Some have claimed that clustering killed those servers, which is not true. Up until it was announced that those servers would be merged with ToA, those classic servers were consistently putting out 2k-3k players at any given moment. And if my memory serves correctly, there were 3 clustered servers. There was hardly any time of the day when one could not find any kind of action, whether it be solo, small group, 8 man, zerg. There was always something happening, and relics were always under threat.
But hey, lets announce a merge to ToA all because a select few players griped that there was a lack of action on the ToA servers.... yeah, that made a lot of sense (not) and that's when the actual current state of DAoC live began with it's much reduced subscription rate and has remained since for over 12 years.
I hope someone got fired for that poor business strategy as it clearly didn't work.
"And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
when they clustered ector and thus allowed "realm hopping" things went downhill fast.
i cant remember why they clustered the 3 classic servers----maybe population....
Hmm. Those "other" servers... Those of us that hate playing 1 account didn't quit. We never played.... At all..
For the people that just want rp resets... You don't think part of the problem is a rediculous stash of powerful items that takes years to acquire isn't detrimental to power creep or new players?
Don't know current prices, but I bet that I've got 20k Plat in items, easy, maybe not even counting the 20+ toons that each have 3-500 Plat temps. And I've barely played in the last 10 years. Maybe 1.5 total. And haven't played live since curse 8 or so came out.
How do you keep the people that like acquiring stuff paying a subscription? By introducing new items, which makes new temps...
You either have to freeze the game, and people get bored and quit, or give them something to shoot for, and have creep, which hurts new players, who then quit.... Orrrr, reset every once and a while where the new players are suddenly on equal footing and have a chance.
For the people that just want rp resets... You don't think part of the problem is a rediculous stash of powerful items that takes years to acquire isn't detrimental to power creep or new players?
Don't know current prices, but I bet that I've got 20k Plat in items, easy, maybe not even counting the 20+ toons that each have 3-500 Plat temps. And I've barely played in the last 10 years. Maybe 1.5 total. And haven't played live since curse 8 or so came out.
??? Which powerful items? If you are completely new to Ywain, you get 50 in 1week. You do Curse and OW raid and get your temp in 4 weeks. That is for COMPLETELY new people. Nothing is hard to get, I dont know really what your talking about.
And what is difficult about the items? Do they have too many stats or what?
Are the uses to difficult? Pressing 1 button is difficult?
? 1 hour to 50, 1 hour to cl15 , 1 hour to get full temped did it last night ...... there are NO rediclious items that are hard to get ..... and im just a semi-active player... so dont say its hard to get something on ywain ... its not .... easy as s***
For the people that just want rp resets... You don't think part of the problem is a rediculous stash of powerful items that takes years to acquire isn't detrimental to power creep or new players?
Don't know current prices, but I bet that I've got 20k Plat in items, easy, maybe not even counting the 20+ toons that each have 3-500 Plat temps. And I've barely played in the last 10 years. Maybe 1.5 total. And haven't played live since curse 8 or so came out.
I would imagine that a ridiculous amount of powerful items would make them more easilly acquirable for casual players and new players.
I would not object to a reset of Realm Points once in a while only to give the casual players and the new players the chance to play on equal footing (good SC-templates and no Realm Rank difference) with the more dedicated players, if only for a short time, now and again.
But I would still play the alternate server, if it would stay with the ToA patch or preferably the SI patch (with Foundations), without a Realm Point reset implemented.
How do you keep the people that like acquiring stuff paying a subscription? By introducing new items, which makes new temps...
You either have to freeze the game, and people get bored and quit, or give them something to shoot for, and have creep, which hurts new players, who then quit.... Orrrr, reset every once and a while where the new players are suddenly on equal footing and have a chance.
This is the big question Broadsword have to figure out. Should the focus be on the players that wants to PvE and make better templates or should it be on the players that wants to RvR? I hope they decide to focus on the RvR players.
I like to be able to do stuff that requires more than one character without having to have wait for enough friends to be logged in and have time to help me with them. I think more subscriptions (buff bot subscriptions) would be good for keeping the game alive.
I see no problem with adding buff potions with the same delve as spell buffs for those that don't want to pay for an additional account for them to be competitive in RvR, but to make buffs have range restrictions to force the people that have multiple accounts to use those buff potions I am against.
Cap buff pots shouldn't be in game. They diminish the value of certain classes and specializations. Same with speed 6 mounts and everybody having speed 6, diminishing values of skald/minstrel, but bard's are still always needed. Creates more imbalance.
I'm okay with buff bots, although IMO they need to have a range. Getting a bonus from a character standing in a safe zone is a load of crap. This also helps people group certain classes with certain specs.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
Cap buff pots shouldn't be in game. They diminish the value of certain classes and specializations. Same with speed 6 mounts and everybody having speed 6, diminishing values of skald/minstrel, but bard's are still always needed. Creates more imbalance.
Why bards are still needed?
If buff bots have a range, they are no buff bots anymore i guess.
Cap buff pots shouldn't be in game. They diminish the value of certain classes and specializations. Same with speed 6 mounts and everybody having speed 6, diminishing values of skald/minstrel, but bard's are still always needed. Creates more imbalance.
Why bards are still needed?
If buff bots have a range, they are no buff bots anymore i guess.
In an RvR 8man/zerg/smallie setup, you're still going to want a bard to drive/cc, it's the core of hibernia groups (bard/druid/warden/fill). While minstrel/skald aren't needed for anything other than rupts/speed/sos. Sure minstrels/skalds are key components, and I'm not trying to argue/debate they are not, but bards are in 99.9% of groups, while mid/alb setups can leave skald/minstrel out of group and still be very competitive.
Most people want their bots to do extra PvE content (or be a RvR buff bot, giving their character bonuses while standing in a safe zone), not many relish the idea of running two or more characters in RvR besides a select few. So they will likely have their bots with them anyway.
Post edited by Dale_Perf on
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
Cap buff pots shouldn't be in game. They diminish the value of certain classes and specializations. Same with speed 6 mounts and everybody having speed 6, diminishing values of skald/minstrel, but bard's are still always needed. Creates more imbalance.
I'm okay with buff bots, although IMO they need to have a range. Getting a bonus from a character standing in a safe zone is a load of crap. This also helps people group certain classes with certain specs.
Buff-Pots shouldnt be in the game, Bots shouldnt be in the game, TOA-Boni shouldnt be in the game, MLs shouldnt be in the game, CLs shouldnt be in the game, Speed 6 for everyone shouldnt be in the game, RP-Goodmode shouldnt be in the game.... think about all that and you will find the solution easily...
In an RvR 8man/zerg/smallie setup, you're still going to want a bard to drive/cc, it's the core of hibernia groups (bard/druid/warden/fill). While minstrel/skald aren't needed for anything other than rupts/speed/sos. Sure minstrels/skalds are key components, and I'm not trying to argue/debate they are not, but bards are in 99.9% of groups, while mid/alb setups can leave skald/minstrel out of group and still be very competitive.
Minstrels can cc but it’s only effective to use your flute mez and single target stun the 5 sec aoe mez is infective I have been saying for a long time that minstrels need that casting time reduced to 2.5 to at least give them the opportunity to cast the aoe now a lot of people say that effects the stealth game my solution would be to have a separate stealth line for minstrels where you gain or lose ability’s regarding how much stealth you spec
Perhaps if you spec zero in stealth minstrels get duel wield and can be a true tankstrel and able to cast a 2.5 aoe mez
In an RvR 8man/zerg/smallie setup, you're still going to want a bard to drive/cc, it's the core of hibernia groups (bard/druid/warden/fill). While minstrel/skald aren't needed for anything other than rupts/speed/sos. Sure minstrels/skalds are key components, and I'm not trying to argue/debate they are not, but bards are in 99.9% of groups, while mid/alb setups can leave skald/minstrel out of group and still be very competitive.
minstrels can cc too. And have a pet.
Yes, but still not a key component in all alb groups like a bard is for hib groups.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
You don't find them any more because there are speed6 horses... Zergs used to run with either no speed or crappy speed. If zergs wanted to run speed6, those classes would run CTR. There used to be tradeoffs in this game and those are now no longer a thing which is unfortunate
You don't find them any more because there are speed6 horses... Zergs used to run with either no speed or crappy speed. If zergs wanted to run speed6, those classes would run CTR. There used to be tradeoffs in this game and those are now no longer a thing which is unfortunate
+1
Convenience killed the MMO aspect.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Cap buff pots shouldn't be in game. They diminish the value of certain classes and specializations. Same with speed 6 mounts and everybody having speed 6, diminishing values of skald/minstrel, but bard's are still always needed. Creates more imbalance.
I'm okay with buff bots, although IMO they need to have a range. Getting a bonus from a character standing in a safe zone is a load of crap. This also helps people group certain classes with certain specs.
Buff-Pots shouldnt be in the game, Bots shouldnt be in the game, TOA-Boni shouldnt be in the game, MLs shouldnt be in the game, CLs shouldnt be in the game, Speed 6 for everyone shouldnt be in the game, RP-Goodmode shouldnt be in the game.... think about all that and you will find the solution easily...
Mahv
There's a place that matches all the examples you listed. The solution for Live is not to copy what has already been done. Why pay for the same game when it's free elsewhere? Multiboxing. That's literally the only reason to do it.
Yeah, you are correct here.
I have tried most of that places..... but it was somehow not.... right.
And i dont like the idea of that poorly managed fake copy-stuff thingy.......It doesnt feel right.
And Multiboxing always felt like cheating to me... i will never do....
It is like having multiple buffbots at your ass....
Please dont get me wrong. I also love the live-game. I am playing now every day my whole free-time. about 20 hours a day on the weekends. Even if i get ganked 200 times a day.
But because it is free and i know therefore i do not have the right to complaine .
I am not allowed to complaine about all the buffbots, the fully equiped and maxed out alts that terrorize the BGs or the maxed out Neo-Cheaters that gank the helpless in endgame open-world, because i dont pay anything.
Never the less i can give my 2 cents about the topic.
Very good example here is the Amazon dev-team... they have realized that ganking is killing their game and changed it completely.
Again, i love the game and i will continue to play until something better will come.
But i will not pay for the actual status on the live-servers.
CU in the game.
So what your saying to me, is BS completely made templates easy?
A new player can get a top of the line temp (kings gear is not top of the line, sorry) without buying plats, without spending months in rvr (remember EC restrictions) getting BPs, waiting for seasonal items, farming the money it cost to buy/alc/SC whatever they need?
Actually sounds pretty great. Not even mad that my vaults full of springtime folly/other rare jewelry, 100% crafting items, ow helms, ml10 weps, greater myths, infernal sleeves are all useless and worthless now. Heck, I can delete all my mules with bags full of mansion deeds since it's so easy now!
This is actually great news!
But, if even a single thing above is not true, then there is a big advantage to the people that have been playing a long time. And that advantage needs to completely go away every reset of the new server, sorry, but you have ywain to hoard.
So what your saying to me, is BS completely made templates easy?
A new player can get a top of the line temp (kings gear is not top of the line, sorry) without buying plats, without spending months in rvr (remember EC restrictions) getting BPs, waiting for seasonal items, farming the money it cost to buy/alc/SC whatever they need?
Actually sounds pretty great. Not even mad that my vaults full of springtime folly/other rare jewelry, 100% crafting items, ow helms, ml10 weps, greater myths, infernal sleeves are all useless and worthless now. Heck, I can delete all my mules with bags full of mansion deeds since it's so easy now!
This is actually great news!
But, if even a single thing above is not true, then there is a big advantage to the people that have been playing a long time. And that advantage needs to completely go away every reset of the new server, sorry, but you have ywain to hoard.
Sorry, i dont get the point...
Can you rephrase so an old german with limited knowledge in a foreign language can follow, please.
when they clustered ector and thus allowed "realm hopping" things went downhill fast.
i cant remember why they clustered the 3 classic servers----maybe population....
I don't recall seeing any official comment about population being the issue for clustering the servers. What I do remember seeing was comments about how due to the latest greatest servers, that it was cheaper for EA/Mythic to run those all those named servers on 1 piece of actual hardware. Their intention was to try to bring all the accounts together under 1 server, but then they realized that due to Housing, that this would cause major issues with players now bickering over lack of available house lots, but it would have been a coding nightmare. So the solution was to attach a origin server name to all accounts and instance each origins server housing to tie those accounts to their original housing zones.
I remember there being many a discussions on the why's and how's this was going to happen. But the one thing that was not the problem was a decrease in population. The only time population took a hit was when we got sideswiped with the news that our clustered servers accounts (after being "clusterd" for roughly 1 1/2 years) were then going to be converted into ToA and merged into the Ywain servers. When that happened, total DAoC population literally was flushed down the toilet. What the powers that be failed to realize were a couple of issues being opened by that pandora box. First was, most of those Classic players were playing Classic for a reason. They did NOT want to play ToA ever again. Next, a sizable majority of those players (nearly everyone I knew at the time) DID actually have toons on other ToA servers that haven't been touched in 2 or more years.
Due to those 2 key factors, those classic players knew that they were then behind the curve in ToA gear and Realm Rank if they chose to keep re-subbing and put up with having to play on the ToA servers. However, this presented an even bigger problem. Where were those characters from Classic going to land? Ywain? or one of the sister servers at the time? What about the characters with possible same names that we had on those servers already, how do we resolve those conflicts, and is it even worth investing time in them just to give up totally on the classic chars? Either way, we were going to lose a major amount of invested time just to have 1 of our hands tied behind our backs in trying to play catch up with everyone else on those ToA servers.
Now if there was ever a time for a RP rollback to 0, that would have been the time to do it, and probably would have saved more classic account holders to continue to play than any potential ToA ones lost. At least the propensity for that conclusion was there since there were more Classic players than ToA at the time.
I myself had toons on 3 of the other ToA servers. Many of us were in the same boat, having toons on multiple servers. So now we had to make decisions with a lot of ugly consequences no matter which way we chose. Do we request to move our toons to one of the servers we already played on? If we do that, now we have to start working on encounters, which would eat up a lot of time that we will be required to invest to even be halfway competitive again.
So let us think about this for a minute. So many of us already had some nice RR toys on our toons. We were having a great time from the fruits of our labor. Most of the time, it was a equal give/take with the other realms. Things were relatively balanced in the frontiers. In other words, we were already working from our established positions and community structure.
Now we were forced to give all that up and start from near scratch compared to the established hierarchy of the ToA community from the 2+ years of our absence playing on the classic servers. You think those established leaders would put up with our noob toons all of a sudden coming in to their worlds and then telling them how to run their realm warfare that they have been handling for the last couple years? ROFL... right, that wasn't going to happen and none of us dared to try to start drama that way either. We were being forced to be literally behind the curve in every respect for those of us that decided to give it a shot and be glutton's for punishment. THIS is the reason for the mass exodus of subscription accounts 2007-2008.
There are many lessons to be learned from what happened 12+ years ago. This next comment is not meant as an insult by any means, but I would daresay that many of you reading this more than likely weren't allowed to play games on the internet yet. Trust me when I say that you really don't know what you missed if you weren't here at the time to play the Classic + SI (housing and NF) ruleset. It wasn't perfect and yes there were some issues, but that ruleset by far was about as near balanced DAoC has ever been. And no, the grind was not that bad at that time. I thought it might have been when I came back to play it at that time having PTSD memories from when DAoC first came out. I do recall thinking to myself that the xp progression was not near as teeth gnawing, tac chewing as I expected it to be.
"And that's the Bottom line. Cause Stone Cold Griff said so!".
@AlaskaMike
You were talking about years to get necessary items. This is wrong.
You dont need seasonal items or sth else for a good template.
You need it for a very good template, not for a good one.
If you wanna be best player on server, you of course need longer for this. Good luck with that.
Normal people new to Ywain can have a good template in 5 weeks.
Exaggeration is not helpful.
So what your saying to me, is BS completely made templates easy?
A new player can get a top of the line temp (kings gear is not top of the line, sorry) without buying plats, without spending months in rvr (remember EC restrictions) getting BPs, waiting for seasonal items, farming the money it cost to buy/alc/SC whatever they need?
Actually sounds pretty great. Not even mad that my vaults full of springtime folly/other rare jewelry, 100% crafting items, ow helms, ml10 weps, greater myths, infernal sleeves are all useless and worthless now. Heck, I can delete all my mules with bags full of mansion deeds since it's so easy now!
This is actually great news!
But, if even a single thing above is not true, then there is a big advantage to the people that have been playing a long time. And that advantage needs to completely go away every reset of the new server, sorry, but you have ywain to hoard.
sure, there's a learning curve to the item database which needs to take place.
but these days? run curse 1-10, OW 1-10, do some BP quests, template done. once a new player learns bountycraft it's pretty straight forward from there. while each item may not be super easy to get, each template is simply a copy-paste of the same items (even moreso with veteran reward items having same elite stats as other items but in different jewelry slots, opening up more possibilities).
sad part is most of the current population is rarely using more than two of the charges in their template on a normal basis.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
I find it pretty funny that all of you would rather not do the "easy thing" and just level up, get new gear each reset. And instead expect new players who don't know what they're doing to just "catch up".
My entire point is the resets needs to give new players the exact same footing as veterans for each reset. Why put the people with the least advantage.... At a disadvantage?
The new players also need to be able to get pve groups, not spend a week or two exping whole everyone else is already 50 and geared, and on their way to rr5 by the time the new players hit 50.
If it's so easy, suck it up buttercups, and reroll each reset like everyone else. Otherwise, don't play the new server and stay on ywain.
Side note, the difference between a good temp, and a very good temp are real and measurable. Why does everyone who's already good at the game want an even higher advantage over people learning? Because people are people. Learn to beat people with skill over gear or rr. Sure, it'll lower your kills by 6%, but it'll double the population of the game, giving you 100% more people to kill.
I find it pretty funny that all of you would rather not do the "easy thing" and just level up, get new gear each reset. And instead expect new players who don't know what they're doing to just "catch up".
My entire point is the resets needs to give new players the exact same footing as veterans for each reset. Why put the people with the least advantage.... At a disadvantage?
The new players also need to be able to get pve groups, not spend a week or two exping whole everyone else is already 50 and geared, and on their way to rr5 by the time the new players hit 50.
But if everyone starts at level 1 every reset the more dedicated players will reach level 50 quicker, get templated quicker and be at fairly high RR before the casual players are even ready to start RvRing. If there is only a RP reset the casual players will be ready to start RvRing (level 50 and template as good as it can be) directly at some point and the more dedicated players will not have any advantage at that point, after a while the more dedicated players will probably be higher Realm Rank but that is unavoidable and the next time you have equal footing is the next RP reset. With complete reset (levels, gear, etc.) you will never have equal footing in the RvR scene.
There would be less crafters if the crafting skill is reset every 6 months so harder to get crafted gear especially for casual players.
PvEing to lvl 50 is not that hard, it will take longer for a casual than it will for a dedicated player but eventally all will reach level 50 unless a reset of experience is done. With complete reset some casual players will never get to play at level 50 and the most dedicated players will have reached RR5 before some casual players have even hit level 50. If it is only a RP reset you avoid this.
You seem to think it is only the dedicated players that will get a reset of RPs and the casuals will get a reset to level 1, they way I see it everyone gets only a RP reset now and again so that the casual players eventually will start on an equal footing with the most dedicated players (level 50, best possible template). That would not be the case if all were reset to level 1, lost crafting skills, lost currency/currencies, lost gear.
If it's so easy, suck it up buttercups, and reroll each reset like everyone else. Otherwise, don't play the new server and stay on ywain.
What is it you think the buttercups consider extremely easy? I do not uinderstand what you are referring to.
I have no interest in playing Ywain at all. I would return to DAoC to play a alternate server if this server is made in a acceptable way, complete reset every 6 months or every year would not be an acceptable way for me.
Side note, the difference between a good temp, and a very good temp are real and measurable. Why does everyone who's already good at the game want an even higher advantage over people learning? Because people are people. Learn to beat people with skill over gear or rr. Sure, it'll lower your kills by 6%, but it'll double the population of the game, giving you 100% more people to kill.
Sounds like a no brainer to me.....
The perfect template will be easier/quicker to get hold of for a dedicated player, many casual players will probably never get the perfect template together before a reset is done, if their character is reset to level 1 that is. If on the other hand the reset is only of RPs, and you keep the gear, the perfect template will be achievable even for those that needs more time to get it, not just the most dedicated players.
People are trying to "fix" the fact that people that spend more time playing will have more items/skill/rank. It's always going to be the case. Do you people also just bitch at work about how somebody who puts more hours in, makes more money? It's the entire model of MMORPGs, spend more time at the game to get better stuff to pwn other people/mobs.
"...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
"the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the **** local community Enforcement force "
People are trying to "fix" the fact that people that spend more time playing will have more items/skill/rank. It's always going to be the case. Do you people also just bitch at work about how somebody who puts more hours in, makes more money? It's the entire model of MMORPGs, spend more time at the game to get better stuff to pwn other people/mobs.
I suggested a RP reset as a better choice than complete reset for the alternate server since there was quite alot of worry from posters regarding dedicated players having an advantage over the casual players. I would play a new server in classic + SI + housing setting with or without RP reset but I would not play that server with complete reset.
I'd love for an official classic server. I'm talking old frontiers, Shrouded Isles, old realm abilities. You could even go back to just straight up classic, everyone running around in epic armors and what good weapons you could get from back then. What I won't ever do, is play on a NF server of any type.
Can we close down all these dumb classic progressive stupid server threads concentrate on live it’s where it’s at pops up people having fun forget all these other servers they will be flavour for a month for a week then they will decline instead keep working to build up your existing loyal daoc community forget catering for people who don’t play or remember how good they were back in the day we don’t need them in game all. They do is whine and bitch concentrate on live ywain is where it’s at
Can we close down all these dumb classic progressive stupid server threads concentrate on live it’s where it’s at pops up people having fun forget all these other servers they will be flavour for a month for a week then they will decline instead keep working to build up your existing loyal daoc community forget catering for people who don’t play or remember how good they were back in the day we don’t need them in game all. They do is whine and bitch concentrate on live ywain is where it’s at
I hope not, I will not play Ywain (I do not think I am alone) but I would return for a classic + SI + housing server if made in a way I find acceptable.
Good that you find Ywain fun to play, keep playing it. But why not make another server that will make more people start up their accounts so that Broadsword makes more money? Would probably increase the chance for both Ywain and the alternate server to be kept up and running.
There will for sure be a new server as far as they've said. But rather towards the end of the year.
So, if you want to play now, just play Ywain for a bit. You can have fun there too.
Population is higher because of Corona, many people at home.
We have 50% RP bonus until May.
Because of bountycrafting it is very easy to get an uptodate template.
I think you can have some fun on Ywain now if you give it a chance.
There will for sure be a new server as far as they've said. But rather towards the end of the year.
So, if you want to play now, just play Ywain for a bit. You can have fun there too.
Population is higher because of Corona, many people at home.
We have 50% RP bonus until May.
Because of bountycrafting it is very easy to get an uptodate template.
I think you can have some fun on Ywain now if you give it a chance.
No thanks, Ywain has a 0% chance of fun for me. I simply can't and won't give NF another chance. It's awful.
will this new/ old classic server . have the old ban on third party programs--macro etc...
get rid of the crutches that the "skilled" peeps use
Hehe. LOL. 100% TRUE.
I am playing that kind of games since about 25 years.
Every time i wondered how the heck some guys do stuff and dived deep to find out, the results are always the same.
Cheats, Game-Bugs,Game-Exploits and Automation-Tools....
The one who knows the most Exploits, bugs and has some nice tools will win.....
At some point then i stopped caring about being ganked... just have a nice time ingame, enjoy the world and the own character, knowing 99% of all "PROs" are just cheaters.... and not in ANY way more skilled than others....
Thats one of the reassons why i like the " DAOC for the Elderly, aka Classic idea ", the more simple the game the less possibilitys for the " skilled " ones....
Comments
That is not true. I am not paying anything and I can post just fine.
It is my contention that it was both ToA and WoW.
There's a video on youtube "Death of a Game" concerning DAoC. The narrator/poster did a relatively decent job with his research, however, I believe he failed with his analysis that "ToA was not responsible for the death of DAoC". His assertion that ToA was not responsible, imo, is incorrect due to the time period of the drop off of the sub accounts. He assumed that just because the sub accounts didn't drop off immediately within the first couple months of the introduction of ToA, then ToA is not responsible. What he failed to realize was that during that time period, we as players had several options for subbing our accounts. One was able to choose between 1 month, 90 days, 6 months, and 1 year. The narrator/poster based his assertion using the 1 month subscriptions without giving us the total number of each type of timed subscriptions at the time that ToA was introduced. Coincidently, WoW pops up some months later, and then presto, we then see a drop off of TOTAL number of subscriptions - including all the longer termed subs!
A more likely conclusion that can be made from this is: ToA although may not have been popular with the community, it was tolerated up until a new similar game (WoW) with newer graphics and new content was brought online in direct competition. THEN is when we saw the effects of all the previously timed subs that included the 6 month and yearly NOT being renewed in DAoC.
Now, not much Broadsword can do about WoW other than try to make their own product and services better and more competitive in order to survive. Hell, that's what capitalism is all about.
But there's the rub, BS CAN fix what part their own product DID play in that whole TOA/WoW sub-cancelling fiasco.
What we learned from the 2005-2007 era with the Classic + SI + Housing servers that Mythic brought back, was there was indeed thousands of players who wanted to play that ruleset, even more so at certain times of the day than those playing the ToA servers at the time (and don't forget WoW was going strong with millions of players by now).
Some have claimed that clustering killed those servers, which is not true. Up until it was announced that those servers would be merged with ToA, those classic servers were consistently putting out 2k-3k players at any given moment. And if my memory serves correctly, there were 3 clustered servers. There was hardly any time of the day when one could not find any kind of action, whether it be solo, small group, 8 man, zerg. There was always something happening, and relics were always under threat.
But hey, lets announce a merge to ToA all because a select few players griped that there was a lack of action on the ToA servers.... yeah, that made a lot of sense (not) and that's when the actual current state of DAoC live began with it's much reduced subscription rate and has remained since for over 12 years.
I hope someone got fired for that poor business strategy as it clearly didn't work.
1€ is fine too.
i cant remember why they clustered the 3 classic servers----maybe population....
For the people that just want rp resets... You don't think part of the problem is a rediculous stash of powerful items that takes years to acquire isn't detrimental to power creep or new players?
Don't know current prices, but I bet that I've got 20k Plat in items, easy, maybe not even counting the 20+ toons that each have 3-500 Plat temps. And I've barely played in the last 10 years. Maybe 1.5 total. And haven't played live since curse 8 or so came out.
How do you keep the people that like acquiring stuff paying a subscription? By introducing new items, which makes new temps...
You either have to freeze the game, and people get bored and quit, or give them something to shoot for, and have creep, which hurts new players, who then quit.... Orrrr, reset every once and a while where the new players are suddenly on equal footing and have a chance.
??? Which powerful items? If you are completely new to Ywain, you get 50 in 1week. You do Curse and OW raid and get your temp in 4 weeks. That is for COMPLETELY new people. Nothing is hard to get, I dont know really what your talking about.
And what is difficult about the items? Do they have too many stats or what?
Are the uses to difficult? Pressing 1 button is difficult?
Ty.
But your not new to Ywain i assume?
I would imagine that a ridiculous amount of powerful items would make them more easilly acquirable for casual players and new players.
I would not object to a reset of Realm Points once in a while only to give the casual players and the new players the chance to play on equal footing (good SC-templates and no Realm Rank difference) with the more dedicated players, if only for a short time, now and again.
But I would still play the alternate server, if it would stay with the ToA patch or preferably the SI patch (with Foundations), without a Realm Point reset implemented.
This is the big question Broadsword have to figure out. Should the focus be on the players that wants to PvE and make better templates or should it be on the players that wants to RvR? I hope they decide to focus on the RvR players.
I see no problem with adding buff potions with the same delve as spell buffs for those that don't want to pay for an additional account for them to be competitive in RvR, but to make buffs have range restrictions to force the people that have multiple accounts to use those buff potions I am against.
What speaks for a one acc restriction?
Macro teams in RvR i assume. Not sure if there are ways to report this.
I'm okay with buff bots, although IMO they need to have a range. Getting a bonus from a character standing in a safe zone is a load of crap. This also helps people group certain classes with certain specs.
Why bards are still needed?
If buff bots have a range, they are no buff bots anymore i guess.
In an RvR 8man/zerg/smallie setup, you're still going to want a bard to drive/cc, it's the core of hibernia groups (bard/druid/warden/fill). While minstrel/skald aren't needed for anything other than rupts/speed/sos. Sure minstrels/skalds are key components, and I'm not trying to argue/debate they are not, but bards are in 99.9% of groups, while mid/alb setups can leave skald/minstrel out of group and still be very competitive.
Most people want their bots to do extra PvE content (or be a RvR buff bot, giving their character bonuses while standing in a safe zone), not many relish the idea of running two or more characters in RvR besides a select few. So they will likely have their bots with them anyway.
Buff-Pots shouldnt be in the game, Bots shouldnt be in the game, TOA-Boni shouldnt be in the game, MLs shouldnt be in the game, CLs shouldnt be in the game, Speed 6 for everyone shouldnt be in the game, RP-Goodmode shouldnt be in the game.... think about all that and you will find the solution easily...
Mahv
minstrels can cc too. And have a pet.
Perhaps if you spec zero in stealth minstrels get duel wield and can be a true tankstrel and able to cast a 2.5 aoe mez
Yes, but still not a key component in all alb groups like a bard is for hib groups.
For zergs its pretty good.
You dont always find speedclasses.
Some people want to run solo in zerg for 30min, or duo or whatever.
+1
Convenience killed the MMO aspect.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Yeah, you are correct here.
I have tried most of that places..... but it was somehow not.... right.
And i dont like the idea of that poorly managed fake copy-stuff thingy.......It doesnt feel right.
And Multiboxing always felt like cheating to me... i will never do....
It is like having multiple buffbots at your ass....
Please dont get me wrong. I also love the live-game. I am playing now every day my whole free-time. about 20 hours a day on the weekends. Even if i get ganked 200 times a day.
But because it is free and i know therefore i do not have the right to complaine .
I am not allowed to complaine about all the buffbots, the fully equiped and maxed out alts that terrorize the BGs or the maxed out Neo-Cheaters that gank the helpless in endgame open-world, because i dont pay anything.
Never the less i can give my 2 cents about the topic.
Very good example here is the Amazon dev-team... they have realized that ganking is killing their game and changed it completely.
Again, i love the game and i will continue to play until something better will come.
But i will not pay for the actual status on the live-servers.
CU in the game.
Mahv
A new player can get a top of the line temp (kings gear is not top of the line, sorry) without buying plats, without spending months in rvr (remember EC restrictions) getting BPs, waiting for seasonal items, farming the money it cost to buy/alc/SC whatever they need?
Actually sounds pretty great. Not even mad that my vaults full of springtime folly/other rare jewelry, 100% crafting items, ow helms, ml10 weps, greater myths, infernal sleeves are all useless and worthless now. Heck, I can delete all my mules with bags full of mansion deeds since it's so easy now!
This is actually great news!
But, if even a single thing above is not true, then there is a big advantage to the people that have been playing a long time. And that advantage needs to completely go away every reset of the new server, sorry, but you have ywain to hoard.
Sorry, i dont get the point...
Can you rephrase so an old german with limited knowledge in a foreign language can follow, please.
Mahv
I don't recall seeing any official comment about population being the issue for clustering the servers. What I do remember seeing was comments about how due to the latest greatest servers, that it was cheaper for EA/Mythic to run those all those named servers on 1 piece of actual hardware. Their intention was to try to bring all the accounts together under 1 server, but then they realized that due to Housing, that this would cause major issues with players now bickering over lack of available house lots, but it would have been a coding nightmare. So the solution was to attach a origin server name to all accounts and instance each origins server housing to tie those accounts to their original housing zones.
I remember there being many a discussions on the why's and how's this was going to happen. But the one thing that was not the problem was a decrease in population. The only time population took a hit was when we got sideswiped with the news that our clustered servers accounts (after being "clusterd" for roughly 1 1/2 years) were then going to be converted into ToA and merged into the Ywain servers. When that happened, total DAoC population literally was flushed down the toilet. What the powers that be failed to realize were a couple of issues being opened by that pandora box. First was, most of those Classic players were playing Classic for a reason. They did NOT want to play ToA ever again. Next, a sizable majority of those players (nearly everyone I knew at the time) DID actually have toons on other ToA servers that haven't been touched in 2 or more years.
Due to those 2 key factors, those classic players knew that they were then behind the curve in ToA gear and Realm Rank if they chose to keep re-subbing and put up with having to play on the ToA servers. However, this presented an even bigger problem. Where were those characters from Classic going to land? Ywain? or one of the sister servers at the time? What about the characters with possible same names that we had on those servers already, how do we resolve those conflicts, and is it even worth investing time in them just to give up totally on the classic chars? Either way, we were going to lose a major amount of invested time just to have 1 of our hands tied behind our backs in trying to play catch up with everyone else on those ToA servers.
Now if there was ever a time for a RP rollback to 0, that would have been the time to do it, and probably would have saved more classic account holders to continue to play than any potential ToA ones lost. At least the propensity for that conclusion was there since there were more Classic players than ToA at the time.
I myself had toons on 3 of the other ToA servers. Many of us were in the same boat, having toons on multiple servers. So now we had to make decisions with a lot of ugly consequences no matter which way we chose. Do we request to move our toons to one of the servers we already played on? If we do that, now we have to start working on encounters, which would eat up a lot of time that we will be required to invest to even be halfway competitive again.
So let us think about this for a minute. So many of us already had some nice RR toys on our toons. We were having a great time from the fruits of our labor. Most of the time, it was a equal give/take with the other realms. Things were relatively balanced in the frontiers. In other words, we were already working from our established positions and community structure.
Now we were forced to give all that up and start from near scratch compared to the established hierarchy of the ToA community from the 2+ years of our absence playing on the classic servers. You think those established leaders would put up with our noob toons all of a sudden coming in to their worlds and then telling them how to run their realm warfare that they have been handling for the last couple years? ROFL... right, that wasn't going to happen and none of us dared to try to start drama that way either. We were being forced to be literally behind the curve in every respect for those of us that decided to give it a shot and be glutton's for punishment. THIS is the reason for the mass exodus of subscription accounts 2007-2008.
There are many lessons to be learned from what happened 12+ years ago. This next comment is not meant as an insult by any means, but I would daresay that many of you reading this more than likely weren't allowed to play games on the internet yet. Trust me when I say that you really don't know what you missed if you weren't here at the time to play the Classic + SI (housing and NF) ruleset. It wasn't perfect and yes there were some issues, but that ruleset by far was about as near balanced DAoC has ever been. And no, the grind was not that bad at that time. I thought it might have been when I came back to play it at that time having PTSD memories from when DAoC first came out. I do recall thinking to myself that the xp progression was not near as teeth gnawing, tac chewing as I expected it to be.
You were talking about years to get necessary items. This is wrong.
You dont need seasonal items or sth else for a good template.
You need it for a very good template, not for a good one.
If you wanna be best player on server, you of course need longer for this. Good luck with that.
Normal people new to Ywain can have a good template in 5 weeks.
Exaggeration is not helpful.
btw some seasonal items can be bountycrafted.
sure, there's a learning curve to the item database which needs to take place.
but these days? run curse 1-10, OW 1-10, do some BP quests, template done. once a new player learns bountycraft it's pretty straight forward from there. while each item may not be super easy to get, each template is simply a copy-paste of the same items (even moreso with veteran reward items having same elite stats as other items but in different jewelry slots, opening up more possibilities).
sad part is most of the current population is rarely using more than two of the charges in their template on a normal basis.
My entire point is the resets needs to give new players the exact same footing as veterans for each reset. Why put the people with the least advantage.... At a disadvantage?
The new players also need to be able to get pve groups, not spend a week or two exping whole everyone else is already 50 and geared, and on their way to rr5 by the time the new players hit 50.
If it's so easy, suck it up buttercups, and reroll each reset like everyone else. Otherwise, don't play the new server and stay on ywain.
Side note, the difference between a good temp, and a very good temp are real and measurable. Why does everyone who's already good at the game want an even higher advantage over people learning? Because people are people. Learn to beat people with skill over gear or rr. Sure, it'll lower your kills by 6%, but it'll double the population of the game, giving you 100% more people to kill.
Sounds like a no brainer to me.....
There would be less crafters if the crafting skill is reset every 6 months so harder to get crafted gear especially for casual players.
PvEing to lvl 50 is not that hard, it will take longer for a casual than it will for a dedicated player but eventally all will reach level 50 unless a reset of experience is done. With complete reset some casual players will never get to play at level 50 and the most dedicated players will have reached RR5 before some casual players have even hit level 50. If it is only a RP reset you avoid this.
You seem to think it is only the dedicated players that will get a reset of RPs and the casuals will get a reset to level 1, they way I see it everyone gets only a RP reset now and again so that the casual players eventually will start on an equal footing with the most dedicated players (level 50, best possible template). That would not be the case if all were reset to level 1, lost crafting skills, lost currency/currencies, lost gear.
What is it you think the buttercups consider extremely easy? I do not uinderstand what you are referring to.
I have no interest in playing Ywain at all. I would return to DAoC to play a alternate server if this server is made in a acceptable way, complete reset every 6 months or every year would not be an acceptable way for me.
The perfect template will be easier/quicker to get hold of for a dedicated player, many casual players will probably never get the perfect template together before a reset is done, if their character is reset to level 1 that is. If on the other hand the reset is only of RPs, and you keep the gear, the perfect template will be achievable even for those that needs more time to get it, not just the most dedicated players.
I suggested a RP reset as a better choice than complete reset for the alternate server since there was quite alot of worry from posters regarding dedicated players having an advantage over the casual players. I would play a new server in classic + SI + housing setting with or without RP reset but I would not play that server with complete reset.
I hope not, I will not play Ywain (I do not think I am alone) but I would return for a classic + SI + housing server if made in a way I find acceptable.
Good that you find Ywain fun to play, keep playing it. But why not make another server that will make more people start up their accounts so that Broadsword makes more money? Would probably increase the chance for both Ywain and the alternate server to be kept up and running.
So, if you want to play now, just play Ywain for a bit. You can have fun there too.
Population is higher because of Corona, many people at home.
We have 50% RP bonus until May.
Because of bountycrafting it is very easy to get an uptodate template.
I think you can have some fun on Ywain now if you give it a chance.
No thanks, Ywain has a 0% chance of fun for me. I simply can't and won't give NF another chance. It's awful.
get rid of the crutches that the "skilled" peeps use
ice mount?
do remember the old twisting lol
Hehe. LOL. 100% TRUE.
I am playing that kind of games since about 25 years.
Every time i wondered how the heck some guys do stuff and dived deep to find out, the results are always the same.
Cheats, Game-Bugs,Game-Exploits and Automation-Tools....
The one who knows the most Exploits, bugs and has some nice tools will win.....
At some point then i stopped caring about being ganked... just have a nice time ingame, enjoy the world and the own character, knowing 99% of all "PROs" are just cheaters.... and not in ANY way more skilled than others....
Thats one of the reassons why i like the " DAOC for the Elderly, aka Classic idea ", the more simple the game the less possibilitys for the " skilled " ones....
Mahv