Ever getting a fresh "classic" server?

Dulu · February 2020

I know there was discussion of DAOC Origins a while back, and when Broadsword took over - I thought we might finally get a server similar to Project 1999, Timelocked Progression, or Classic World of Warcraft.

I personally wouldn't want anything beyond the original game or Shrouded Isles, but I'd be OK with a progression style server.

Just something fresh, please.

Tyrantanic · February 2020

Origins died with Mythic. It would have been interesting to see considering all the changes they were planning. Oh well. There are talks about a progression server starting with a classic setting but details won't be released until after patch 1.127.

Jorma · February 2020

There is a fairly fresh thread regrading this:

https://forum.darkageofcamelot.com/discussion/3096/classic-server-and-ywains-future/p1

Solicfear1 · February 2020

I doubt it if they are struggling with the ywain server.

Kroko · February 2020

Carol_Broadsword wrote: »

Any updates on plans for next year?

In the first quarter next year we’ll be continuing our response to Endless Conquest feedback as well as delivering numerous bug fixes and some other goodies in the form of a 1.127 update.

Afterward, our alternate server proposal will then be our major developmental focus. Our original proposal of a subscription-only ‘Classic + Shrouded Isles + Housing’ server that advances (vote-based) through DAoC’s subsequent content is still the plan. We’ll be sharing the details of that server’s ruleset, like which Frontier it will use and what other changes will be involved with it, as we get through 1.127! Depending on how this alternate server goes, we will be launching subsequent versions (perhaps with some fun variations) with a more forced progression.

With that said, Ywain will continue to be the primary long-term focus as we view it as THE game. With Endless Conquest and the ability to play for free we’ve seen a great number of returning and new players out exploring our beloved world and more importantly, endlessly battling each other in the Frontier and battlegrounds!

While alternate servers may seem like a shift away from Ywain in the short term, in the long term they will be another boon to the game as a whole and to Ywain. New and returning players alike will have a chance to start fresh on the new servers, learn or re-learn the game, gain realm rank and eventually transfer over to Ywain with their established characters, which will continue to grow Ywain’s population over time. In addition to the momentum from Endless Conquest and this future momentum from these alternate servers, we are also in the midst of an investigation into bringing DAoC onto Steam! 2020 is going to be a great year for Dark Age of Camelot and with these plans coming to fruition, there will be many more ahead!

Brut · February 2020

All this game needs is updated graphics effects like blood and beheadings arms getting chopped off people on fire proper medieval amour not fantasy putting on steam a couple of new classes on each realm and some pve instances like in wow and Warhammer then you are set easy then repackage as daoc 2 the rebirth if I ever win the lottery I would buy the game and do it and make millions of dollars.

DaRedANT · February 2020

Brut wrote: »

All this game needs is updated graphics effects like blood and beheadings arms getting chopped off people...

Yes!

Solicfear1 · February 2020

@Brut I don't agree with you on more WoW PvE, that's what has destroyed PvE on DAoC. DAoC PvE has it's own uniqueness don't try and implement other game content which has pulled people away from this game.

Brut · February 2020

I respect your right to disagree solic

Solicfear1 · February 2020

Brut wrote: »

I respect your right to disagree solic

Probably WoW PvE is good for WoW but isn't good for DAoC neither is it designed for DAoC. The best PvE was the old content, SIdi/Galladoria, DF, PoC etc. Update the bps in those area's and people will enjoy the PvE content on DAoC. OW and DC are far from perfect and the amount of times people have either got left behind from not understanding the quest or their journals are full due to there are far to many quests for just that campaign is the reason people are frustrated and lose interest very easily to the PvE on live.

They've made DAoC PvE too complicated and all they had to do is a simple tweak on dungeons!

They wont get population if the game is complicated and I doubt the town quests are really helping this situation in improving peoples player experience. Also, EC accounts are not consistent with sub players xp, this has caused major issues with those grouping. Again, an EC player will not last long if their is no help or grouping. If it's all solo from level 1-50 i highly doubt they will continue.

This game really needs to work on the PvE side and bring back things that made DAoC fun and enjoyable and that's grouping with other players!

Cartoan · February 2020

Topless Luris. Nuff said.

Shoke · February 2020

The more I think about an alternative server, the less I think a classic / SI server is the way to go, because there is already competition for that type of server.

BS needs to find a recipe that is unique to them and that they can master. Being a copycat will not work.

Is it seasons? Events? Multiple restarts? progression? A new ruleset all together?

All I know is that classic is what people cry about because they have this nostalgia, but almost nobody plays classic for more than 4-5 months.

scerff · February 2020

Home invasion server!!!

Kelteen · February 2020

Shoke wrote: »

The more I think about an alternative server, the less I think a classic / SI server is the way to go, because there is already competition for that type of server.

BS needs to find a recipe that is unique to them and that they can master. Being a copycat will not work.

Is it seasons? Events? Multiple restarts? progression? A new ruleset all together?

All I know is that classic is what people cry about because they have this nostalgia, but almost nobody plays classic for more than 4-5 months.

[edited]
I think if Dark Age of Camelot will add a Classic Server without the dumb 12-13€ each month, they will get many many players back. And of course they need more programmers, the patches took too long(hotfixes, new stuff, etc.)

Shoke · February 2020

@Kelteen pop dropped by 50-75% in the first 4-5 months. And the remaining population is already served with exisiting servers, hence my point that there is no point in competing with a similar product that is free while yours is a payed membership.

47el · February 2020

may try it, but the only way i would play it would be if it was truly one realm per account----
bring back what was truly great about daoc---realm pride

47el · February 2020

[edited]

Shoke · February 2020

Realm timers are OK when the pop is 2k+ active players at all times (without bots). Under that, there shouldn't be timers, in my opinion.

Aenvar_Cantlos · February 2020

Whatever they do, please don't let Ywain die, or there will be nothing left when the "new server novelty" fades.

I wish we had the numbers to split the playerbase in two, but it's not the case:(

Sepphiroth75 · February 2020

If they make a new server i bet ywain loses easily half if its population bringing it back to post (other server) population. I am 100% going to make a new lvl 1 and level. While Ywain the main i think the majority of people want classic/si with possibly toa if revamped to allow for easier mls/artifacts that scales in difficulty per player counts

Nahellbodkin · February 2020

Aenvar_Cantlos wrote: »

Whatever they do, please don't let Ywain die, or there will be nothing left when the "new server novelty" fades.

I wish we had the numbers to split the playerbase in two, but it's not the case:(

I guess at the end of the day, that's what everyone fears, no? I mean, think about it... If we put our differences aside, what we have left is a game that we all love... It's a game that we are/once were passionate about. I can tell you right now that I made some damned good friends playing this game, and I was only a sophomore in highschool at the time. Hell, I still talk to quite a few of them as we have grown to become good friends.

Point is, like many, I don't want to see this game go away. I love this game, despite it's... hardships; and I'm sure there are many of you that can agree to this statement.

Tyrantanic · February 2020

The game won't go away anytime soon. Which servers survive is a different story. If players were more willing to let go of their "progress" over the years, we could have seasonal servers to keep the game fresh. I personally don't care about losing anything so long as the game itself stays fun.

Astaa · February 2020

Sepphiroth75 wrote: »

If they make a new server i bet ywain loses easily half if its population

That's a bit negative, you think Ywain could lose about 100 players?

Anyway, BS don't understand the game enough to fix it.

Jorma · February 2020

I will quote a post by Insideel, in the thread I linked to in my previous post in this thread, since i think it contains a lot of points worth considering:

Insedeel wrote: »

Kroko wrote: »

I think many people want a new server and its worth a try.

Problem many people have with Ywain is that "everyone is RR12". I dont know how to fix that.

TL:DR
1. F2P Model (already in)
2. Classic + SI + Housing server
3. 6-12 Months later TEMPORARY new Ywain server (4-6 month duration for the Fresh Economy, no RR12s, super geared toons, and marketed at attracting new, returning, and classic server players since it'll be a new fresh start server)
4. Merge temporary Ywain server with old Ywain. (Those on temporary server should be established enough to play with the big boy RR12s of old ywain once merged).
5. Evaluate current state of game, sub counts, finances (hopefully shown growth, profits, sustainability, player retention), etc.
6. Release next big thing whatever that is at that point.

I feel like they have a strong chance at successfully attracting new players to Ywain with a temporary server (with merging after some time) system if made in conjunction with a strategy of utilizing the player base of Classic + SI server.

Opening a new ywain server now could help somewhat, but it would mostly only be catering to attempting to bring people back to a fresh new server, but I feel like they would be missing out on a HUGE opportunity if they only did that, or did it before the classic server. That huge opportunity is capitalizing on the Classic+SI fans on their upcoming Classic+SI+Housing server.

Here's what I mean and what I would envision as a strategy to bring in a fresh player base, please hear me out.

Ywain is and stays as it always was.

1. --> The new F2P model has been implemented. GREAT! This is step 1 as it sets up an unlimited free trial system for new and returning players. Perfect this system over time.

2. --> A Classic + SI + Housing server is released and brings back a large player base wanting that experience. Side note: Remember that this server required a paid subscription which I'll touch on later.

3. --> 6-12 Months into the classic server as that server matures a bit, hopefully right around the time this player base starts getting bored. BS announces a fresh new ywain clone seasonal server that will run for 6 months and then merge with old ywain.

4. --> Release the 6 month ywain clone which basically sets up a current era DAOC server with a fresh economy, and all players starting on the same page.

5. --> 6 months should be more than enough time for the people of that temporary ywain clone to build and establish high RR characters and build wealth which will make it not be nearly as big of a deal merging that back with old ywain to keep up with the big boy RR12s on old ywain.

6. --> At this point BS would be free to assess the current state, player sub numbers, etc to decide where to go from there. Do they rinse/repeat the process? Do they try a new ruleset server never seen before?

Pros of this strategy:

1. --> By releasing the classic server first, you have an assumed player base that came for that ruleset, but after time will probably start getting bored, especially those who went hard into the server. A fresh ywain server by that point may be appealing for those classic players to get them to play both servers along side each other. That could be amazing for player retention.

a. --> Remember that the Classic server requires paid sub, which means that if a classic server player comes to play on the new ywain clone, they would have all the same premium membership benefits as any others which helps to set and level the playing field to any of the old ywain vets that come to the new ywain as well.

b. --> There are no long-time RR12 players with unlimited plat and gear sitting there able to just steamroll new and returning players. Sure, they'll already have an advantage because they'll know the current era DAOC more than said new players to current era DAOC, but they won't be sitting on RR12 and perfectly templated gear to further increase that advantage.

c. --> This should also be I would hope a bit more acceptable to those who don't want to lose their old ywain progress, because this would only be a temporary server that would merge with old ywain.

aa. ---> On that note, remember above I mentioned that a temporary ywain clone would let these new players build and establish high RR characters and build wealth which will make it not be nearly as big of a deal merging that back with old ywain to keep up with the big boy RR12s on old ywain.

Cons:

1. --> RISK: There's always risk, but to do nothing else now that the f2p model is out and some of the initial feelings and numbers are in, I personally see DAOC has a challenging future. So, yes the strategy above is a risk, but so is doing nothing, and doing nothing is I feel a more guaranteed high risk of eventual failure.

2. --> This will take a LONG time to see all of the fruits of the labor of a strategy like this, but as a side pro to this con it also allows BS to evaluate and assess things at a slower pace to see the reception of each iteration of this strategy.

3. --> It would mean the temporary time of the ywain clone claiming the few players on old ywain and old ywain becoming as close to a dead server as one could get during this time. But once the temporary new ywain merges back with the old, it may become a larger server than it's been in a very long time.

The ending scenario I envisioned if I had my way and implemented the strategy I outlined above is:

Once that temporary server merges back with old ywain, I would be willing to bet seeing many of the old ywain vets returning along with all of the new players that established themselves on the new ywain all being thrown in together and it may very well spark a new golden age of DAOC where you have a vibrant player base in both the classic and current era DAOC who switch back and forth between classic and current era when they're bored with the other and want to change it up but still have it be DAOC at its core.

This is highly inspired by what I've seen from how Everquest has thrived and gained a highly strong player base in both live and their TLP servers and seeing how TLP players was actually in the long term a boon to the current era Everquest servers because they would play both a TLP and a current era server)

Thanks to anyone who took the time to read this book lol..

@Broadsword @John_Broadsword @Carol_Broadsword

And as I said in my reply to Insedeel's post in the other thread:

The characters on the Classic + SI + Housing server should probably be reset to 0 RPs now and then, but let the characters remain the same in regards to level, gear, inventory, gold, tradeskill level. After a few seasons the casuals will start on the same degree of optimized templates as the really dedicated players.

Now I will write some more thoughts I have had regarding this:

I would prefer the Old Frontiers but would be happy if seasons alternated between Old Frontiers and New Frontiers from season to season.

I think that the SI dungeons, dragons and Summoner's Hall will be farmed by guilds and to some extent by macro groups so that there will be high end gear available on the consignment merchants in housing. If it turns out that is not the case the SI dungeon currency and the dragon scale currency can be implemented together with the 3rd or 4th season.

I would accept Trials of Atlantis in the future if the Artifacts and MLs where available from Atlantean Glass from the get go but I would stop playing the minute any of the expansions after Trials of Atlantis where introduced on this server.

Shoke · February 2020

I think people forget that you'll have to pay a sub to play on the new server. So what will make that server special so that people will be enticed to pay a sub for a game that is accessible for free?

You can't just do a SI + housing server, the concept has been beaten to death already. BS needs to come up with a unique concept.

People keep coming back to the dragon era as the golden age of daoc. Maybe a simplified ToA server will probably have way more success than a SI + housing server. ToA added a layer of complexity to the game that is enjoyable, and artifacts are just plain cool. However, people are still traumatized by MLs and farming scrolls and leveling artifacts killing a specific mob in a specific zone at night, etc.

Simplified ToA, with easier ML encounters, artifact leveling as quick as today, where you don't need scrolls, just the encounter, etc.

Do they keep OF? Do they work on a revamped NF that would be smaller and generate more action than the current NF that is considered too big. Do they rework the keep layout a little bit to improve on the existing design?

People enjoy OF because you didn't have to be a genius to find action, port Emain, run to a MG, bam action. However you find yourself fighting in Pennine and wonder who the hell thought this was good design. The zones were also much different one to the other. Hib was green, Mid was white, Alb was brown. NF is brown with a bit of white in Mid. But NF is just nicer, better keeps, flatter layout, but it does lack personality, all three realms being super similar.

NF also has the issue of porting around. So if I was BS, I would spend a lot of my time/ressource on improving NF. Take what was good in OF, was was good in NF, and try to come up with the best possible RvR zone. Just with that, you'll distinguish yourself from the other places and they can't copy you.

Also, Bountycrafting has to make it in the next server. It's what can make casuals access gear for the end game through RvR.

Kroko · February 2020

Shoke wrote: »

People enjoy OF because you didn't have to be a genius to find action, port Emain, run to a MG, bam action.

But it is mostly a zerg festival there.

Shoke wrote: »

BS needs to come up with a unique concept.

This would be good.

Shoke wrote: »

People keep coming back to the dragon era as the golden age of daoc. Maybe a simplified ToA server will probably have way more success than a SI + housing server. ToA added a layer of complexity to the game that is enjoyable, and artifacts are just plain cool. However, people are still traumatized by MLs and farming scrolls and leveling artifacts killing a specific mob in a specific zone at night, etc.

Simplified ToA, with easier ML encounters, artifact leveling as quick as today, where you don't need scrolls, just the encounter, etc.

I would find this interesting. As long as artifacts and MLs are much easier to obtain.
But I think alot of people would jump off right in the moment they hear that ToA comes in.

The question is which type of server it will be. Will it be a seasonal server or not. Will it be several servers?
Hope they give more infos soon.

Shoke · February 2020

I think people see ToA and have a mental breakdown, just thinking about doing a 6 hour ML3 raid.

ML1-10 should be max 2-3 hours total to complete in my opinion, same as a Cursed raid or a Galla/Sisi/Glacier run. Redesign the MLs so that maybe only the big boss is required, not keep the 100 steps required to go from ML1 to ML10.

Maybe to get ML1-10 you only need to do one ML line (like ML10) and that's it. Keep the other 9 MLs as alternative PvE content for people that like PvE, Make it that all PvE encounters drop BPs/whatever currency you come up with to allow casuals to acquire end game gear without PvEing a lot, so there is a reason to farm them.

ToA, if you just launch it like that, is too large and too time consuming. But if you scale it down to the population we have now, I think it would be a nice alternative to the Si + housing servers out there.

Tyrantanic · February 2020

Shoke wrote: »

I think people see ToA and have a mental breakdown, just thinking about doing a 6 hour ML3 raid.

ML1-10 should be max 2-3 hours total to complete in my opinion, same as a Cursed raid or a Galla/Sisi/Glacier run. Redesign the MLs so that maybe only the big boss is required, not keep the 100 steps required to go from ML1 to ML10.

Maybe to get ML1-10 you only need to do one ML line (like ML10) and that's it. Keep the other 9 MLs as alternative PvE content for people that like PvE, Make it that all PvE encounters drop BPs/whatever currency you come up with to allow casuals to acquire end game gear without PvEing a lot, so there is a reason to farm them.

ToA, if you just launch it like that, is too large and too time consuming. But if you scale it down to the population we have now, I think it would be a nice alternative to the Si + housing servers out there.

+1

Nahellbodkin · February 2020

Shoke wrote: »

I think people see ToA and have a mental breakdown, just thinking about doing a 6 hour ML3 raid.

ML1-10 should be max 2-3 hours total to complete in my opinion, same as a Cursed raid or a Galla/Sisi/Glacier run. Redesign the MLs so that maybe only the big boss is required, not keep the 100 steps required to go from ML1 to ML10.

Maybe to get ML1-10 you only need to do one ML line (like ML10) and that's it. Keep the other 9 MLs as alternative PvE content for people that like PvE, Make it that all PvE encounters drop BPs/whatever currency you come up with to allow casuals to acquire end game gear without PvEing a lot, so there is a reason to farm them.

ToA, if you just launch it like that, is too large and too time consuming. But if you scale it down to the population we have now, I think it would be a nice alternative to the Si + housing servers out there.

+1

Names · February 2020

Im with @shoke on this one 2 i love the arties all of them have there own look i just wish they fit better in today's temps but now there really only good in cv now i was not around when toa came out so i dont know the hardships of doing the mls or getting arties but i can say i would prefer it the way shoke said just noone has time nowadays to skt there for 6hours at a time to do it. And i do like the idea of the ml main bosses droping ml credits for there corresponding mls, hell can even implement that on ywain to test it out we have a lot of guildies that would be down to do that just for the hell of it.

Nahellbodkin · February 2020

Names wrote: »

Im with @shoke on this one 2 i love the arties all of them have there own look i just wish they fit better in today's temps but now there really only good in cv now i was not around when toa came out so i dont know the hardships of doing the mls or getting arties but i can say i would prefer it the way shoke said just noone has time nowadays to skt there for 6hours at a time to do it. And i do like the idea of the ml main bosses droping ml credits for there corresponding mls, hell can even implement that on ywain to test it out we have a lot of guildies that would be down to do that just for the hell of it.

That would be a pretty cool test... +1 to that.

Jorma · February 2020

Shoke wrote: »

I think people forget that you'll have to pay a sub to play on the new server. So what will make that server special so that people will be enticed to pay a sub for a game that is accessible for free?

You can't just do a SI + housing server, the concept has been beaten to death already. BS needs to come up with a unique concept.

I believe an official server where anyone is able to play as many accounts as they are prepared to pay the subscription fee for will draw people back to the Classic + SI + Housing setting. I have not played the free to play servers party because of the restriction to only have 1 account and partly because the ones who run it can do anything they want with it without risking loosing any revenue, an official server would at least have to try to keep their customers happy and would benefit from doing so.

Shoke wrote: »

People keep coming back to the dragon era as the golden age of daoc. Maybe a simplified ToA server will probably have way more success than a SI + housing server. ToA added a layer of complexity to the game that is enjoyable, and artifacts are just plain cool. However, people are still traumatized by MLs and farming scrolls and leveling artifacts killing a specific mob in a specific zone at night, etc.

Simplified ToA, with easier ML encounters, artifact leveling as quick as today, where you don't need scrolls, just the encounter, etc.

I would accept ToA being implemented on this server but I believe it would be better to start with a Classic + SI + Housing for a few seasons and implement ToA after a while.

And with seasons I mean reset all the characters on this server to 0 RPs now and again so that all starts at the same level when it comes Realm Rank. Let the characters keep their lvl, their equipment, everything in their vault/houses/inventory, their tradeskill level and when ToA has been introduced their MLs. Just give them a free full respec each season and reset their RPs to 0.

Shoke wrote: »

Do they keep OF? Do they work on a revamped NF that would be smaller and generate more action than the current NF that is considered too big. Do they rework the keep layout a little bit to improve on the existing design?

People enjoy OF because you didn't have to be a genius to find action, port Emain, run to a MG, bam action. However you find yourself fighting in Pennine and wonder who the hell thought this was good design. The zones were also much different one to the other. Hib was green, Mid was white, Alb was brown. NF is brown with a bit of white in Mid. But NF is just nicer, better keeps, flatter layout, but it does lack personality, all three realms being super similar.

NF also has the issue of porting around. So if I was BS, I would spend a lot of my time/ressource on improving NF. Take what was good in OF, was was good in NF, and try to come up with the best possible RvR zone. Just with that, you'll distinguish yourself from the other places and they can't copy you.

Sure make tweaks over time to the frontier but why not start with alternating between OF and NF and take surveys and/or follow the discussion in the forum to get an idea on what is worth keeping and what needs to be changed

Shoke wrote: »

Also, Bountycrafting has to make it in the next server. It's what can make casuals access gear for the end game through RvR.

I am not sure Bountycrafting should be used to receive the best gear but the pattern system i think is good, I personally though SoM was to ugly when I played back in the day so i didn't use it even though it was the best choice of cloak. Can also have respec stones available for purchase on BP merchants.

If Atlantean Glass, SI dungeon currencies and Dragon Scales is available for the high end gear Bountycrafting can be used to make your character look like you want it to look.

Shoke wrote: »

I think people see ToA and have a mental breakdown, just thinking about doing a 6 hour ML3 raid.

ML1-10 should be max 2-3 hours total to complete in my opinion, same as a Cursed raid or a Galla/Sisi/Glacier run. Redesign the MLs so that maybe only the big boss is required, not keep the 100 steps required to go from ML1 to ML10.

Maybe to get ML1-10 you only need to do one ML line (like ML10) and that's it. Keep the other 9 MLs as alternative PvE content for people that like PvE, Make it that all PvE encounters drop BPs/whatever currency you come up with to allow casuals to acquire end game gear without PvEing a lot, so there is a reason to farm them.

ToA, if you just launch it like that, is too large and too time consuming. But if you scale it down to the population we have now, I think it would be a nice alternative to the Si + housing servers out there.

Why not just make MLs and Artifacts buyable with Atlantean Glass or Bounty points?

The ML10 drops should probably also be available for Atlantean Glass.

Cathul · February 2020

Kroko wrote: »

Shoke wrote: »

People enjoy OF because you didn't have to be a genius to find action, port Emain, run to a MG, bam action.

But it is mostly a zerg festival there.

Yes, but the 8-man comunity can easily avoid that. Just port to the other two realms frontier zones.

But i guess this comes with a downfall... not enough rps as there are not that many 8-mans running, right? No solos to roll over, no smallmen pugs to roll over, just other 8-man once in a while, and all of that while lots of people are having fun at the milegates in Email... decisions, decisions....

Aenvar_Cantlos · February 2020

LOVE the simplified ToA concept, bring it on!

Nahellbodkin · February 2020

Agreed... I think it would be fun.

I find myself more often than not going out to ToA just to mess around and bring back some nostalgia vibes

Shoke · February 2020

@Jorma Yeah I'm not sure if they should allow multi-accounts / bots. It adds a nice dynamic to RvR that killing the buffing class basically wrecks the whole group. Field buffing also adds a challenge to RvR. Also not allowing buff bots forces people to group together, instead of everybody doing their own thing. It really adds value to grouping.

I'm not 100% against a progression server, I'm just not sure how it would be better than just starting off with the right ruleset. And resetting RPs on the server while keeping your gear and stuff (so not a total reset) and just continue on the same ruleset would probably upset the casual playerbase. But I'm not 100% sure of what would happen.

The thing with alternating OF with NF is that in either case 50% of the playerbase will be unhappy. And I don't think it's easy to just alternate frontiers all the time. And yes it is a 50/50 split, confirmed by votes taken this year.

That's why I think a whole new frontier is what is needed for that server. Basically list everything people like and dislike about OF and NF (and NNF, and EV) and try to come uip with the best solution possible. This way you wont start with 50% of the pop being unhappy about the decision.

I'm not a fan of the duplicate currencies. I like simple, simple is good, simple is elegant. Simple is 2 currencies; one is gold to buy stuff, repairs, raw materials for crafting, houses, etc, the second one (call it whatever you want, BPs or whatever) to get the high end gear that drop from top PvE encounters / raids.

Also, the EC model should be revisited.

The big mistake of the current iteration of EC is that its end goal is to make people sub. What EC should be is an alternative revenue stream.

Subbing should allow you to get everything in the game without any extra $$ spent. I'm talking about everything on the MTX merchant. I should be able to XP quickly, get good RPs, have free re-skins (or link re-skins to an in-game currency), RP pots for in-game currency, use all potions, get respec stones (skill, RA, gender, race, etc) for in-game currency.

Choosing a non-sub account (EC) should be that everything a sub account can get you can also, but instead of subbing you need to pay $$ to get them. You don't need to pay 15$ per month, but let's say you want RP pot? Spend a little 2$. You want re-skins? Here you go, 2$. etc.

I don't think EC accounts should have slower XP rates, especially on a new server. You don't want to get an XP group together, mix-matching EC and sub accounts, then realize that the subbed players are way out-XPing the EC accounts and need to drop the group to find another one at their level.

RPs can totally be adjusted so that EC get less RPs than subbed accounts.

But we'll see what 1.127 brings as it is the big focus of that patch.

Jorma · February 2020

Shoke wrote: »

@Jorma Yeah I'm not sure if they should allow multi-accounts / bots. It adds a nice dynamic to RvR that killing the buffing class basically wrecks the whole group. Field buffing also adds a challenge to RvR. Also not allowing buff bots forces people to group together, instead of everybody doing their own thing. It really adds value to grouping.

Personally I have never had anything against buff bots. I do not believe that their existence takes away the need of the classes, used as buff bots, in group RvR, they have more utility than just buffs and as you mentioned field buffing will still be needed. Grouping will still be needed, some encounters will not require it any longer but if all the best gear is going to be purchasable by BPs, Glass, SI dungeon currency and/or scales noone is forced to group anyway.

Shoke wrote: »

I'm not 100% against a progression server, I'm just not sure how it would be better than just starting off with the right ruleset. And resetting RPs on the server while keeping your gear and stuff (so not a total reset) and just continue on the same ruleset would probably upset the casual playerbase. But I'm not 100% sure of what would happen.

What the right rule set is is a subjective matter though. Several of my friends that I played with from open beta up to 2007-2008 would come back for Classic + SI + Housing and would accept ToA.
If it is stated how resets are made people can decide if it is acceptable and make their choice accordingly. Resetting RPs makes it easier for new players to start on the server, not having to always be at a Realm Rank disadvantage.

Shoke wrote: »

The thing with alternating OF with NF is that in either case 50% of the playerbase will be unhappy. And I don't think it's easy to just alternate frontiers all the time. And yes it is a 50/50 split, confirmed by votes taken this year.

I have never seen any of these votes and I suspect many of the players that left 10 -15 years ago haven't either.
I know what I would have voted, I can not say what the people that has left DAoC forums would have voted.

Shoke wrote: »

That's why I think a whole new frontier is what is needed for that server. Basically list everything people like and dislike about OF and NF (and NNF, and EV) and try to come uip with the best solution possible. This way you wont start with 50% of the pop being unhappy about the decision.

I am all for changing the frontiers but it is risky to make a massive change right of the bat.
Do people still remember the good and bad things of the Old Frontiers (have everyone even played Old Frontiers)?
Why not start with refreshing the memory or introducing those that never played it to it?

Shoke wrote: »

I'm not a fan of the duplicate currencies. I like simple, simple is good, simple is elegant. Simple is 2 currencies; one is gold to buy stuff, repairs, raw materials for crafting, houses, etc, the second one (call it whatever you want, BPs or whatever) to get the high end gear that drop from top PvE encounters / raids.

Why not make the second currency Glass or Scales to get the high end gear and keep Bounty Points for aesthetic stuff only?

Shoke wrote: »

Also, the EC model should be revisited.

The big mistake of the current iteration of EC is that its end goal is to make people sub. What EC should be is an alternative revenue stream.

Subbing should allow you to get everything in the game without any extra $$ spent. I'm talking about everything on the MTX merchant. I should be able to XP quickly, get good RPs, have free re-skins (or link re-skins to an in-game currency), RP pots for in-game currency, use all potions, get respec stones (skill, RA, gender, race, etc) for in-game currency.

Choosing a non-sub account (EC) should be that everything a sub account can get you can also, but instead of subbing you need to pay $$ to get them. You don't need to pay 15$ per month, but let's say you want RP pot? Spend a little 2$. You want re-skins? Here you go, 2$. etc.

I don't think EC accounts should have slower XP rates, especially on a new server. You don't want to get an XP group together, mix-matching EC and sub accounts, then realize that the subbed players are way out-XPing the EC accounts and need to drop the group to find another one at their level.

RPs can totally be adjusted so that EC get less RPs than subbed accounts.

But we'll see what 1.127 brings as it is the big focus of that patch.

I have no comments on EC or the Ywain servers, I have no interest in them at all. I will resubscribe my accounts for a classic server if it is made in a way I find satisfactory.

Ever getting a fresh "classic" server?

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