Defending Healers/Clerics with FOP out of combat against Druids allways in Combat....who gets more heal-spells out? Its a Nerf for attackers....and defenders can more easily defend now. This and the Champ/Vale Nerf against the new Bombs on Necro and WL. It is a hibernia nerf.
@Strolch I don't necessarily think its a hibernia nerf only.
While some could argue that Hero dominating is a community issue, not a game-related issue, thing is, many 8 man playstyle has been changed over the years based on how one group perform with some team comps. At this point is clear, that this community issue will never be solved, as you won't find anyone who willing to lead zerglings who don't mind loosing for a long while every single day for long hours. Might aswell do something that stirrs it up, so if want to be on top of the game you need to adapt is such an insane thing to ask of Zerg gameplay?
Solos do the same all the time, so is 8 mans, adapt to changes. With heal nerf at least that solution is equal among realms, so not even a strict hib nerf.
Edit: The fact that Hero attacks more keeps is not game-balance issue, like him dominating wasn't either. Yet you can't let it be done with 0 effort, same toons, same idea, same setup do this for 10 years straight.
Good changes, shouldnt be rewarded for spamming heals in safety not even targeted.
Mauler nerf dont make sense and the utility is more of an issue, Suppose it may weed out the bad players carried by FW anytime styles combined with class cloak blapping people in 3 hits.
Necro changes lack luster, atleast they fixed solo porting
Defending Healers/Clerics with FOP out of combat against Druids allways in Combat....who gets more heal-spells out? Its a Nerf for attackers....and defenders can more easily defend now. This and the Champ/Vale Nerf against the new Bombs on Necro and WL. It is a hibernia nerf.
The combat scenario you just described is inaccurate. Allow me to educate you. If your druids are routinely engaging in combat you're going to die, they should not be doing this. Defending healers and clerics are both going to be required to obtain LOS on group mates that are receiving damage, the same as druids. I don't understand your "example". Druids can still sit behind walls, out of LOS, with a FOP active, just as before. Neither defenders, nor attackers, will be able to continually spam group and spread heals.
Have you actually read the patch notes? Are you unaware that the heal changes were made across the board?
Your bias is overwhelming. You do actually understand that Hibernia is naturally the best realm at keep defense as well, right?
The "delve increase" of PBAOE for both the warlock and necromancer is subpar in this recent implementation. Add onto the fact that Bainshee's also received a PBAOE DD buff (which you interestingly omitted) actually was an overall buff to Hibernia, all things considered. The warlock received the short end of the stick in that they're now required to spec 50 points into Curse to obtain the "new" pbaoe which will cost them a UI primer.
Sorry, Gav, but it is obvious spreads,oil changes and pali bolt damages were slipped in to cater to unhappy EU defenders on Mid and Alb.
Amphet etc. What is your in-game name on Hib and Alb? Hmm?
@Cartoan this game let one realm dominate because it has been a community issue not game related. Even if the intent to level playing-field why is it bad? If tables would turn the rules are even.
Where in EV are the entrances to the labyrinth located? I tried porting into the lab and then zoning out, but I "do not meet the requirements" to do so.
Sorry, Gav, but it is obvious spreads,oil changes and pali bolt damages were slipped in to cater to unhappy EU defenders on Mid and Alb.
Amphet etc. What is your in-game name on Hib and Alb? Hmm?
My ingame name on Alb is Ampphetamine. My hibs and mids are various names and levels between level 1-49 mostly. Why do you ask?
Sorry, Gav, but it is obvious spreads,oil changes and pali bolt damages were slipped in to cater to unhappy EU defenders on Mid and Alb.
Amphet etc. What is your in-game name on Hib and Alb? Hmm?
It might affect EU hibs more, but its not focused on that. The fact that so many hibs play hib eu might make you take this personally as an attack on hib, but its game balancing. Hib EU won't be easy mode as a druid anymore (with climbers pouring over the walls pushing back what little resistance was there). Stategy will have to be employed a bit more now. it will be more push, pull back ... rethink , push, pull etc.
I'd say all realms will see more action with the change. EU hibs were complaining that no one would defend for action. I'm anxious to see if more EU albs/mids do in fact attempt to defend now with the changes. They might actually have a chance to defend against overwhelming odds when healers run out of mana from constantly spamming.
I just like to see in game the people shooting their mouths off in forum. As yet to see you on Albion or Hibernia.
Same goes for 95% of the people here.
I just like to see in game the people shooting their mouths off in forum. As yet to see you on Albion or Hibernia.
Same goes for 95% of the people here.
Who are your toons, if I may ask? I've mained my Armsman for years and recently came back from a year+ hiatus.
I'm not sure who you're referring to with the "shooting their mouths off" regarding forum posts.
Also, technically speccing 50 causes you to lose two levels of UI primer, if you’re a true bomb spec (45/29 with the 29 primer to 50/20 with the 12 primer)
We ran around last night and went an hour before seeing the Alb zerg
But they had no bonus
/shrug
On which realm? I ran on hib last night and ran into the alb zerg several times (8pm - 10pm EST). They (alb) held bold, wiping us in bold tower twice, they zerged all the towers on EV, wiping us several times, we pushed to KM and got wiped , then returned the favor when albs pushed out. it was decent night for me. I was in a fg, running with a 2nd group since albs had a zerg.
thank you very much for these changes ! good or not ........ some of these changes i LOVE , and some not ..... BUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it doesnt matter for me to be honest ..... the point is ... YOU CHANGED SOMETHING ! the best change was the healchange I love you for that
is that supposed to be warlock love ? it's more like a nerf.
increase of delve from 325 to 365 (not to 425) means that to get it we need 50 cursing and we lose the level 22 uninteruptable primer, which means it will do less damage uninteruptable than the 325 delve with the better primer and will drive us out of power even faster. dunno if much warlocks will bother to get this.
Of all the annoying people here (and trust me, there are many), I'd say it's a close call between you and Brut for prize of being the most boring, tiresome poster on this forum.
well, show me a fault in my logic in saying that doesn't make warlocks better and actually nerfs them to some degree by losing better uninterruptible primers that have already been nerfed a year and a half ago. it certainly doesn't bring them up to par with the other pbaoe classes.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
i'm really unhappy about BS changing the meta about healing and forcing a game changing patch without consulting the opinion about it from the player base ... yet again ...
can BS please publish game changing patch notes to get feedback from players before ramming us those game changing down our face.
i mean, we seem to be past the point of BS even bringing things to the test server to have the players test. they just ram down changes. eg they know best and we don't have a clue, so they don't even bother talking to us about what they do.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
my first impression about the healing changes, certainly early, was that today i was not able to get healers for my bg. it seems that a lot healing people simply didn't want to play their healing classes anymore.
after yesterday i expected more people to join me but the amount of groups with me halved and all i heard was 'looking for healers'.
it might take me months, maybe even a year to get anywhere near the sort of following herorius has, but i have seen a loyal fallowing that sticks with me, even when things go very bad. i love you guys.
i just hope i can overcome the negative spiral that affects midgard.
i'm too stubborn/determined to give up.
Post edited by Muylae on
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
It’s early like you said but the dynamic of better-formed groups being able to permaheal through walls on their tanks or save caster purely with spreads is certainly reduced. If the hib zerg’s activities today are any indication, this was a pretty big boon to defenders.
Why are people so butthurt about the healing changes?
Instead of having 1 spell on your qbar you get to have 2; spread and baseline group heal. I know that's twice as many spells that the hero lemmi gs are used to, but heh I have confidence they'll figure it out
It hurts the under strength realm numbers for sure. As i said in an earlier post, a realm outnumbered 2:1 or worse simply cannot keep groups up. If your side wins the initial push,it's all over. THere is simply no way to to heal through the damage being thrown down.
Ill give an example. A single caster casting at cap via pbae or ranged ae will empty a healers mana pool in no time; you either spreadheal or group heal or everyone dies. Sure you could single target but that same caster is nuking for 600 faster than you can heal 600..see the descrepency?
Mids arent even running melee groups now because of this change. Without overwhelming numbers to push in and split the opposition, there is no incentive to.
Edit: Lastly the underpop bonus algorithm is a joke. In one wipe where we had 26 in the BG hibs had twice that number, but bonuses where none for Alb and 25 for Mid and Hib. Oh and once again we had 1 fight against the full Alb zerg in nearly 2 hours. WTH are Albs doing right now????
Today I learned group heal spam is better than single target healing. I must have been doing it wrong the entire time.
On another note, current Myth End regen makes endurance management non-existent. I'd be ok with reducing it down to +1 across the board but that may upset more players than anything else. Food for thought.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
i'm really unhappy about BS changing the meta about healing and forcing a game changing patch without consulting the opinion about it from the player base ... yet again ...
can BS please publish game changing patch notes to get feedback from players before ramming us those game changing down our face.
i mean, we seem to be past the point of BS even bringing things to the test server to have the players test. they just ram down changes. eg they know best and we don't have a clue, so they don't even bother talking to us about what they do.
Maybe you should read and speak up before a patch comes out.
The changes are not that big, that no one wants to play a healer anymore.
It makes it just more challenging.
Healing without getting oop is really a strange thing.
Now you have to use your stuff, power boost, power pots, etc. and have to manage it a bit.
and i always read that nobody wants to test on pend cause they dont get paid lol
i always wondered why the 8 man groups wit the skills didnt set up fights there ...
It's not about being paid - it's a mixture of feeling like you're QAing a patch that should be QAed by the devs before launching and/or giving substantive feedback that isn't being well-received.
i'm really unhappy about BS changing the meta about healing and forcing a game changing patch without consulting the opinion about it from the player base ... yet again ...
can BS please publish game changing patch notes to get feedback from players before ramming us those game changing down our face.
i mean, we seem to be past the point of BS even bringing things to the test server to have the players test. they just ram down changes. eg they know best and we don't have a clue, so they don't even bother talking to us about what they do.
Maybe you should read and speak up before a patch comes out.
The changes are not that big, that no one wants to play a healer anymore.
It makes it just more challenging.
Healing without getting oop is really a strange thing.
Now you have to use your stuff, power boost, power pots, etc. and have to manage it a bit.
i'm really unhappy about BS changing the meta about healing and forcing a game changing patch without consulting the opinion about it from the player base ... yet again ...
can BS please publish game changing patch notes to get feedback from players before ramming us those game changing down our face.
i mean, we seem to be past the point of BS even bringing things to the test server to have the players test. they just ram down changes. eg they know best and we don't have a clue, so they don't even bother talking to us about what they do.
Maybe you should read and speak up before a patch comes out.
The changes are not that big, that no one wants to play a healer anymore.
It makes it just more challenging.
Healing without getting oop is really a strange thing.
Now you have to use your stuff, power boost, power pots, etc. and have to manage it a bit.
where did that post mention the game changing effects on heals ?
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
The entire first page Mulae. Bumbles brought it up first then others responded with their ideas quoting him.
It was also mentioned in another thread by a few other contributors.
and i always read that nobody wants to test on pend cause they dont get paid lol
i always wondered why the 8 man groups wit the skills didnt set up fights there ...
I think it's more of a not getting heard then being paid for not wanting to test on Pend. I always helped test on there right up to the stealth patch when "he who shall not be named" was telling those with negative feedback that they simply didn't understand the changes and then later reverting those changes on live.
This game is already losing Subs, doubt anything will keep players even if they make fixes to classes. It's just a merry go round because once this fix is over someone will have another complaint about their class. This is the reason class balance hasn't worked and never will.
The more Broadsword focus on this the rest of the game is suffering and that's why the population is so low!
love The healing changes I really are a game changer for game in general it can’t be right that healers can spam heals like they did with no consequences.
Maybe Zerg healers might actually single target heal instead of sitting there with there thumb up there ass talking about the latest 2 for 1 deal on Swiss cheese at wallmark while knitting and eating a fat burger while they are supposed to be healing.
Are you seriously telling me it’s right muylae that a warlock can spreadheal with no power loss how is that fair while I agree they should never of turned the lock into a healing bot the way it was set up before was insane.
Game since the changes has definetly been better from what I can see it hasn’t drastically cut down the healing of hibs but the champ changes and enchanter changes were greatly welcomed again both were stupid when they were implemented something I constantly told you all about but again my superior game knowledge was ignored
One of the few patches I approve of
Good job broadsword ignore the whiners.
The entire first page Mulae. Bumbles brought it up first then others responded with their ideas quoting him.
It was also mentioned in another thread by a few other contributors.
The entire first page Mulae. Bumbles brought it up first then others responded with their ideas quoting him.
It was also mentioned in another thread by a few other contributors.
The entire first page Mulae. Bumbles brought it up first then others responded with their ideas quoting him.
It was also mentioned in another thread by a few other contributors.
Only need regular bug fixes and events from here on out. Get creative with RvR events, not classes.
Yeah, Beib said they wanted these boards for feedback rather than the internal boards. I don't think their is any Knights or BG leader program anymore due to the falling out of players on style differences. They wanted a more general overview from all play styles.
Their healer would in turn be right in your groups los too given that scenario, right? "Sometimes" the better team is gonna win. Theyve rolled me many many times while i was grouped.
Two snipers in war hunting each other... the better sniper is gonna kill sniper B 9 times out of 10.
Yep. Get right out there into IRC los so I can single target los heal. Try it, Brut and get back to me.
Looks like after class #1 of "learning how to use single target heals" you need to attend class #2 "learn how to position your character so that your groupmates are in heal range but you are out of range of enemy casters"
To follow that class, I suggest you watch some streams of very good support players. Frapz is a good example.
Comments
Are you worried because there are so many defenders?
While some could argue that Hero dominating is a community issue, not a game-related issue, thing is, many 8 man playstyle has been changed over the years based on how one group perform with some team comps. At this point is clear, that this community issue will never be solved, as you won't find anyone who willing to lead zerglings who don't mind loosing for a long while every single day for long hours. Might aswell do something that stirrs it up, so if want to be on top of the game you need to adapt is such an insane thing to ask of Zerg gameplay?
Solos do the same all the time, so is 8 mans, adapt to changes. With heal nerf at least that solution is equal among realms, so not even a strict hib nerf.
Edit: The fact that Hero attacks more keeps is not game-balance issue, like him dominating wasn't either. Yet you can't let it be done with 0 effort, same toons, same idea, same setup do this for 10 years straight.
Mauler nerf dont make sense and the utility is more of an issue, Suppose it may weed out the bad players carried by FW anytime styles combined with class cloak blapping people in 3 hits.
Necro changes lack luster, atleast they fixed solo porting
The combat scenario you just described is inaccurate. Allow me to educate you. If your druids are routinely engaging in combat you're going to die, they should not be doing this. Defending healers and clerics are both going to be required to obtain LOS on group mates that are receiving damage, the same as druids. I don't understand your "example". Druids can still sit behind walls, out of LOS, with a FOP active, just as before. Neither defenders, nor attackers, will be able to continually spam group and spread heals.
Have you actually read the patch notes? Are you unaware that the heal changes were made across the board?
Your bias is overwhelming. You do actually understand that Hibernia is naturally the best realm at keep defense as well, right?
The "delve increase" of PBAOE for both the warlock and necromancer is subpar in this recent implementation. Add onto the fact that Bainshee's also received a PBAOE DD buff (which you interestingly omitted) actually was an overall buff to Hibernia, all things considered. The warlock received the short end of the stick in that they're now required to spec 50 points into Curse to obtain the "new" pbaoe which will cost them a UI primer.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
Amphet etc. What is your in-game name on Hib and Alb? Hmm?
My ingame name on Alb is Ampphetamine. My hibs and mids are various names and levels between level 1-49 mostly. Why do you ask?
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
It might affect EU hibs more, but its not focused on that. The fact that so many hibs play hib eu might make you take this personally as an attack on hib, but its game balancing. Hib EU won't be easy mode as a druid anymore (with climbers pouring over the walls pushing back what little resistance was there). Stategy will have to be employed a bit more now. it will be more push, pull back ... rethink , push, pull etc.
I'd say all realms will see more action with the change. EU hibs were complaining that no one would defend for action. I'm anxious to see if more EU albs/mids do in fact attempt to defend now with the changes. They might actually have a chance to defend against overwhelming odds when healers run out of mana from constantly spamming.
Same goes for 95% of the people here.
Who are your toons, if I may ask? I've mained my Armsman for years and recently came back from a year+ hiatus.
I'm not sure who you're referring to with the "shooting their mouths off" regarding forum posts.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
But they had no bonus
/shrug
And the PBAE chamber is a whopping 273 delve
On which realm? I ran on hib last night and ran into the alb zerg several times (8pm - 10pm EST). They (alb) held bold, wiping us in bold tower twice, they zerged all the towers on EV, wiping us several times, we pushed to KM and got wiped , then returned the favor when albs pushed out. it was decent night for me. I was in a fg, running with a 2nd group since albs had a zerg.
well, show me a fault in my logic in saying that doesn't make warlocks better and actually nerfs them to some degree by losing better uninterruptible primers that have already been nerfed a year and a half ago. it certainly doesn't bring them up to par with the other pbaoe classes.
can BS please publish game changing patch notes to get feedback from players before ramming us those game changing down our face.
i mean, we seem to be past the point of BS even bringing things to the test server to have the players test. they just ram down changes. eg they know best and we don't have a clue, so they don't even bother talking to us about what they do.
after yesterday i expected more people to join me but the amount of groups with me halved and all i heard was 'looking for healers'.
it might take me months, maybe even a year to get anywhere near the sort of following herorius has, but i have seen a loyal fallowing that sticks with me, even when things go very bad. i love you guys.
i just hope i can overcome the negative spiral that affects midgard.
i'm too stubborn/determined to give up.
It’s early like you said but the dynamic of better-formed groups being able to permaheal through walls on their tanks or save caster purely with spreads is certainly reduced. If the hib zerg’s activities today are any indication, this was a pretty big boon to defenders.
Instead of having 1 spell on your qbar you get to have 2; spread and baseline group heal. I know that's twice as many spells that the hero lemmi gs are used to, but heh I have confidence they'll figure it out
Ill give an example. A single caster casting at cap via pbae or ranged ae will empty a healers mana pool in no time; you either spreadheal or group heal or everyone dies. Sure you could single target but that same caster is nuking for 600 faster than you can heal 600..see the descrepency?
Mids arent even running melee groups now because of this change. Without overwhelming numbers to push in and split the opposition, there is no incentive to.
Edit: Lastly the underpop bonus algorithm is a joke. In one wipe where we had 26 in the BG hibs had twice that number, but bonuses where none for Alb and 25 for Mid and Hib. Oh and once again we had 1 fight against the full Alb zerg in nearly 2 hours. WTH are Albs doing right now????
Hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
On another note, current Myth End regen makes endurance management non-existent. I'd be ok with reducing it down to +1 across the board but that may upset more players than anything else. Food for thought.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
lol? The heal changes were ASKED by community. It was not an idea of BS.
Read the beginning of this thread:
https://forums.darkageofcamelot.com/discussion/3125/patch-1-127-update-and-upcoming-hot-fix-discussion#latest
Maybe you should read and speak up before a patch comes out.
The changes are not that big, that no one wants to play a healer anymore.
It makes it just more challenging.
Healing without getting oop is really a strange thing.
Now you have to use your stuff, power boost, power pots, etc. and have to manage it a bit.
i always wondered why the 8 man groups wit the skills didnt set up fights there ...
It's not about being paid - it's a mixture of feeling like you're QAing a patch that should be QAed by the devs before launching and/or giving substantive feedback that isn't being well-received.
where did that mention
where did that post mention the game changing effects on heals ?
It was also mentioned in another thread by a few other contributors.
I think it's more of a not getting heard then being paid for not wanting to test on Pend. I always helped test on there right up to the stealth patch when "he who shall not be named" was telling those with negative feedback that they simply didn't understand the changes and then later reverting those changes on live.
The more Broadsword focus on this the rest of the game is suffering and that's why the population is so low!
Maybe Zerg healers might actually single target heal instead of sitting there with there thumb up there ass talking about the latest 2 for 1 deal on Swiss cheese at wallmark while knitting and eating a fat burger while they are supposed to be healing.
Are you seriously telling me it’s right muylae that a warlock can spreadheal with no power loss how is that fair while I agree they should never of turned the lock into a healing bot the way it was set up before was insane.
Game since the changes has definetly been better from what I can see it hasn’t drastically cut down the healing of hibs but the champ changes and enchanter changes were greatly welcomed again both were stupid when they were implemented something I constantly told you all about but again my superior game knowledge was ignored
One of the few patches I approve of
Good job broadsword ignore the whiners.
The inner circle calls this #thebumblespatch2020
I thought they dumped the internal boards?
Only need regular bug fixes and events from here on out. Get creative with RvR events, not classes.
Yeah, Beib said they wanted these boards for feedback rather than the internal boards. I don't think their is any Knights or BG leader program anymore due to the falling out of players on style differences. They wanted a more general overview from all play styles.
Two snipers in war hunting each other... the better sniper is gonna kill sniper B 9 times out of 10.
Looks like after class #1 of "learning how to use single target heals" you need to attend class #2 "learn how to position your character so that your groupmates are in heal range but you are out of range of enemy casters"
To follow that class, I suggest you watch some streams of very good support players. Frapz is a good example.
Aren't you running in Hero BG? Not like you can see anything stuck to that keep wall PvEing keeps.
i thought these boards were for paying or playing peeps---unlike postcount
And you are who? Gotcha.