Personally i dont care about anything outside of the real DAoC servers, i just want my great 17 year journey with DAoC to last as long as possible. ( For that we need people back that are happy )
Down the road a new server and FTP will be nice options, im just kind of scared that FTP now, with the game in its current situation will just give it a bad reputation, for anyone that actualy tries it and the people they talk to.
As i said in my previous post i really belive some information collection is needed from former and current players in form of surveys, then a DAoC rescue, repair plan and vision for the future can be build around what is learned, in a direction that ofc stays true to what DAoC have always been.
If that plan and vision brings a population back and stays true to what DAoC is, i personally dont care if they lock me to 1 realm to restore realm pride.
The people who can provide this feedback used to play actively and even some posted on PC. That is why I said this board will not produce the response that can help to right what’s wrong on Live.
There are other places much more active where you can observe what is successful. Again there is significant demand for a classic/si server with QoL adjustments.
There is some interesting feedback from people and it is good to get the feel of what others are thinking.
I don't have the answers to any of it. I do however, think that people want the game to continue and succeed, but there are way too many issues to address at this point, that it may be impossible to fix.
There is no longer a sense of 'realm' pride. People chase the rp's and that is it. What I don't understand is why? I chalk most of it up to selfishness. The rp's are not going to get you anywhere when there is no longer a player base to even sustain the rp drive that is so desperately sought.
The player base has become so toxic, that why would you even want to engage with someone that you don't know. Once upon a time, you used to make groups with people you didn't know, if someone was rude/ruined an encounter/greed over need on loot; you would disband then and not group with them. You would go out of your way to help people in your guild/alliance do raids, questing etc. You no longer need anyone in game to achieve those items, epic gear (what? who uses this?) etc. I can essentially go from 1-50, outfit my toon, get ml lines, etc and not interact with anyone in which to do so. That goes against the whole premise of what the game was founded on. It was about the journey.
It has nothing to do with play styles in rvr. Those have been around since day one. To pander to one set of play style is not helping the game as it flies in the face of everything that it originally stood for.
It is human nature to want to place blame on someone, whether it is the community, the knights (are they still around?), or BS themselves. The blame is on all of us for allowing it to get to where it is. That being said, the buck stops at BS. It is supposed to be their vision of the game and where they want to take it. Leadership starts with leading and having a clear vision of where/what you want to lead too. Several years ago it was asked in an mmo mag, where do you see Doac in 5 years? There was no answer to this question. You have to have a vision of where you want to be.
It is clear that there are a lot of passionate people out there, that still care for the game and want it to succeed.
Pre ToA was meh. If this includes OF I remember the hours spent at the milegate bottlenecks, unable to get through due to Hib PB groups like Dem Hibbies camping the gate room.
Let's mention the time it took to get to 50...........very few, if any, had more than 1 lvl 50 due to the huge time sink when levelling.
People have this habit of looking at everything Pre ToA through rose tinted specs. It was good but post ToA is better.
any time someone mentions Dem Hibbies i have to smile. i guess you refer to something like :
i was in the alb group that made this clip, on my wiz btw
and yeah, rose tinted spectacles ... i had to be reminded just how un-userfriendly daoc was at start and playing on a freeshard 2 years ago was a good reminder of that...
Post edited by Muylae on
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
My true feeling is Broadsword are getting the wrong information and not listening to those that don't play the game and only improving the game for those that play already which is also creating issue's. You need to look at the bigger picture and I just don't feel we are looking for the future of the game we are looking backwards and short term solutions.
If Broadsword wont change things to improve the future of DAoC others will!
i think the 'succes' of the alternative server 2 years ago and the new one has more to do with dissatisfaction with BS than with people wanting to play such an old version of the game. people want doac, they just don't want a daoc managed the way BS does.
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
Major upside to the other side is population, 2,500 individual players versus 600 (50% of these being bots). In an MMO, that’s kind of critical. Yes pop will lower over time.
On the other side, you need others to progress, you are forced to socialize. On Live, you can do everything solo, you never have to group ever. Not having to care for others exacerbates toxic behaviors. You can’t do anything about it because it’s been like that for too long.
On the other side, they take care of cheaters and publicly announce bans. I know bs can’t do it on live because of the rules, but it does help improve faith in management when they are transparent about what they do.
Seems like the other side, while being free, as more ressources dedicated to the game than Bs running a paid version. There are always 6-7 GMs available in discord (compared to 1 aka Beib). The « boss » engages daily in conversations, answers questions directly in discord.
They fix bug, the bug tracker is public, there is transparency in their actions.
All this gives the impression that things are being worked on, improved, that if something is wrong now they will work to improve them.
You will notice that not once I mentionned patch level, OP items, stupid pve campains and raids, broken classes, etc.
Major upside to the other side is population, 2,500 individual players versus 600 (50% of these being bots). In an MMO, that’s kind of critical. Yes pop will lower over time.
On the other side, you need others to progress, you are forced to socialize. On Live, you can do everything solo, you never have to group ever. Not having to care for others exacerbates toxic behaviors. You can’t do anything about it because it’s been like that for too long.
On the other side, they take care of cheaters and publicly announce bans. I know bs can’t do it on live because of the rules, but it does help improve faith in management when they are transparent about what they do.
Seems like the other side, while being free, as more ressources dedicated to the game than Bs running a paid version. There are always 6-7 GMs available in discord (compared to 1 aka Beib). The « boss » engages daily in conversations, answers questions directly in discord.
They fix bug, the bug tracker is public, there is transparency in their actions.
All this gives the impression that things are being worked on, improved, that if something is wrong now they will work to improve them.
You will notice that not once I mentionned patch level, OP items, stupid pve campains and raids, broken classes, etc.
my point exactly
Stor Hurfru Muylasav, wildly swinging arms around. Vicomte Muylock, calling curses on enemies. Baron Muylaetrex, Undead guy. Baronet Muylaetrix, calling upon winter storms. Baronet Facetothewallmuppet, support type standing with his face to the wall most of the time. Baronetess Yovonne, taxi. some other chars with names starting with Muyl.
I also agree with most of your post as well @Jak, but would like to add that 90% or more of the things that have removed the "community" aspect have been asked for by an aging community that doesn't have months of time to level a toon to 50, get to ML 10, get to CL15, and get templates.
Just look at the cursed raid or even OW. Both raids required BG's to complete at the start. Something to give a sense of community back to us. What did we as the players do? Complain. Most of us felt like it was a detriment to have to join a BG to get gear needed to compete. In answer to our complaints, they lowered the difficulty of each raid to needing a fg or less and also put on the bp currency.
It's a double edged sword. As you said, the lack of community is a serious issue for sure. However, if you put in the time sinks like before you would also have people ticked off about having to spend what little time they have farming.
My problem with Cursed and OW, was a lack of BG's running in my time zone and that the answer to everything template or plat gain related seemed to be Cursed and OW or time gated things like traveling merchants and event loot.
Not to forget the bugs and new people to BG's when one was finaly running got lost in the quests and missed credit.
With as much, to me atleast, good PvE DAoC has to offer, i think its really sad that most of it are ignored and dont have any value. Even after 17 years and 70+ chars across different EU and US servers and accounts, i still find both PvE and RvR good fun, just sad to see so much not used and no pugs going.
I also agree with most of your post as well @Jak, but would like to add that 90% or more of the things that have removed the "community" aspect have been asked for by an aging community that doesn't have months of time to level a toon to 50, get to ML 10, get to CL15, and get templates.
Just look at the cursed raid or even OW. Both raids required BG's to complete at the start. Something to give a sense of community back to us. What did we as the players do? Complain. Most of us felt like it was a detriment to have to join a BG to get gear needed to compete. In answer to our complaints, they lowered the difficulty of each raid to needing a fg or less and also put on the bp currency.
It's a double edged sword. As you said, the lack of community is a serious issue for sure. However, if you put in the time sinks like before you would also have people ticked off about having to spend what little time they have farming.
90% is a number that is really just thrown out there. There is no way to actually capture this.
There are a fair number of people who have never posted here or other boards, that actually have good feedback. I have heard it. They just can't be bothered as the communication, though it is professed to be both ways, is not there.
To be fair, the OW stuff, there were significant bugs upon release. That are still THERE! I try to not do quests, because, well they are pve. I support others who are doing it and couldn't care less about completion, but those people do care. There is no good excuse to have these bugs still there. That is just one example.
To have people spend time in what is considered a 'time sink' and have these types of issues that are not fixed, is inexcusable.
Most people complain and would bitch about anything given the chance. I kind of compare it to children. Kids complain, whine and will do whatever they can to get their way. We, as parents, have to wade though all the garbage and decide as to what is important and relevant to the long term plan of our children. In the case of BS, there is no long term plan. Things tend to be reactionary, instead of proactive. That is a problem.
We can agree on alot @Jak. I was actually going to say about the only thing that has almost made me want to quit are the random bugs. Whether it's people not getting credit for quests in raids or crashes in combat because you shift+right clicked to switch a weapon. I have had that last one happen almost every night I have played at least once. It's making it so I don't even want to play.
Also, obviously the 90% was just my over estimation of the fact that the vast majority of people still playing just don't have time for the same PvE that once made that part of the game great. Because of this people have wanted things easier to do with a fg or less. Which is nice, especially for people who play at off peak hours. But it also takes away from the "community" aspect that is lacking from the good ol' days.
"On the other side, you need others to progress, you are forced to socialize."
I entirely disagree with this. The other side has the same sort of mechanics that this one does in terms of things you can or cant do solo. That one may even exasperate that with farmable currency and perks for solo things. The only you think that is because being social there is easier with a larger pool of people. You still have the same 1 or 200 jerks, but you also have pool of 600 nice people to engage with.
I agree with some of the other non-ruleset stuff that's been said here though.
what I meant was that to grind 1-50, on live you run through BGs solo and 3-4 hours later you’re done. On the bird the 1-50 takes 20-25 hours for the normal individual in groups while soloing itntakes 50-60 hours. That’s a huge difference. But yeah raids still require people.
The issue with live is no realm timers, no one to xp with, it's to easy, pve content is horrible (OW and Curse) with bugs and when Carol or Shelia are not there we got no way of resetting encounter. The live servers need to go back to what it used to be where farming items rather than credit system which failed ToA and now has failed them once again.
I much prefer the Nostalgia to what DAoC is now. Yes people say we got to move with the times but I'm afraid the direction Broadsword have gone is just ruined the game for me. It's been cheapened where it isn't even worth paying for anymore.
The original topic is fine for discussion and we would like to hear more thoughts on it but at the moment it's steering more towards bashing current DAoC and Broadsword so please let's get back on topic. (edit: for clarity, negative feedback is welcome once it is constructive and civil, not bashing)
Also a general reminder that advocating for or promoting unauthorised servers isn't allowed here.
Other than an issue with CH9 and one with Mid Ch3, both since fixed (thanks to the help of people doing it and communicating with me about them), the only thing I've had to do with Curse encounters is spawn it as another group just did it moments before. I'm not aware of any issues or bugs with it otherwise so please, if you are, let me know what they are so I can get them looked at, thanks! (pm/discord, new thread, or such, not this thread)
The original topic is fine for discussion and we would like to hear more thoughts on it but at the moment it's steering more towards bashing current DAoC and Broadsword so please let's get back on topic.
Also a general reminder that advocating for or promoting unauthorised servers isn't allowed here.
Other than an issue with CH9 and one with Mid Ch3, both since fixed (thanks to the help of people doing it and communicating with me about them), the only thing I've had to do with Curse encounters is spawn it as another group just did it moments before. I'm not aware of any issues or bugs with it otherwise so please, if you are, let me know what they are so I can get them looked at, thanks!
There are far more issue's than just Curse here Carol.
Anyway if you make a new server I'll be back but for now I'm just going to save my coins
There was a lot more that was buggy about the [Curse] campaign.
Some things to take away is a public bug tracker, more active devs (other then Beib), account stash (its 5 pages elsewhere). The cash shop is just terrible, it needs a massive overhaul and the ability to acesss online.
If F2P is going to save this game then it cannot be super restrictive, because they have another free alternative that’s tried and true.
Nobody is bashing anyone and that is part of the problem. You are warning people before they have even said anything. This is constructive feedback, take it as such.
Yeah. There is a difference between constructive criticism, which aims to better the game and pure trolling/bashing.
Like this statement I’m about to make
Perhaps the reason you allow nate to ever post again and play the game is because you don’t know the difference between the people who want to make the game better and those who merely wish to be a constant disruption and a detriment to the game with their idiotic daily posts.
Maybe taking the feedback of what is currently working on a fake server and adopting their transparency of nearly everything going on would go a long way in making people believe that BS is running a business rather than a side gig with sporadic updates.
I personally hate the new server and it’s slow grind and then having more drawn out pve to be rvr ready. Maybe taking that into account you can tweak the f2p system so that it won’t scare away players. Combine f2p with a come back campaign. Perhaps awarding those coming back with enough to get one bp crafted item as well to speed up a returning players template needs
The issue with live is no realm timers, no one to xp with, it's to easy, pve content is horrible (OW and Curse) with bugs and when Carol or Shelia are not there we got no way of resetting encounter. The live servers need to go back to what it used to be where farming items rather than credit system which failed ToA and now has failed them once again.
I much prefer the Nostalgia to what DAoC is now. Yes people say we got to move with the times but I'm afraid the direction Broadsword have gone is just ruined the game for me. It's been cheapened where it isn't even worth paying for anymore.
Sorry @Solicfear1 but I have to disagree with most of this post. Nostalgia is nothing more than the grass seeming greener on the other side of the fence. It seems great till you get there and remember all the crap things you forgot. Everyone thought Old RA's would be great on some random reboot of a server. It took all of 6 months for people to remember all the bad things of Old RA's (pre-req for RA's, op'd RA's, etc). Quit living in a dream world of the past. Very few people have the time to farm for hours for 1 random item.
You want more PvE encounters? You want more "farming" instead of credit? You are the minority on that. How many people were asking for a BP system to bypass PvE? The vast majority. This is why I honestly feel sorry for BS. They do honestly try and listen to the community and give us what the majority is asking for. No, I'm not saying that they do it perfectly, but they do try. However, they can't balance everyone's personal interpretations of what constitutes a good server. If they made us "farm" as before than people would be pissed that they need to spend hours farming an item instead of out participating in RvR.
You CAN farm stuff Solic. People just don't want to. You can do all the ML encounters, you can farm items in ToA, you can do the Cursed and OW raids (most bugs have been fixed). But what you can't do is get mad because the vast majority of people don't want to waste time in PvE farming items. At one time DAoC had good PvE. Then games like WoW and other games came out. Most of the people that play DAoC still play for the RvR since there is NO game out there with the dynamic RvR system that DAoC offers. On the flip side, there are much better games for PvE out there and if BS thinks they can compete with them they are going to be sorry. As I said earlier, you are more than welcome to PvE till your little hearts content, but you can't complain about them making it so you don't have to PvE when we as the community were the ones that asked for it.
The original topic is fine for discussion and we would like to hear more thoughts on it but at the moment it's steering more towards bashing current DAoC and Broadsword so please let's get back on topic. (edit: for clarity, negative feedback is welcome once it is constructive and civil, not bashing)
Also a general reminder that advocating for or promoting unauthorised servers isn't allowed here.
Other than an issue with CH9 and one with Mid Ch3, both since fixed (thanks to the help of people doing it and communicating with me about them), the only thing I've had to do with Curse encounters is spawn it as another group just did it moments before. I'm not aware of any issues or bugs with it otherwise so please, if you are, let me know what they are so I can get them looked at, thanks! (pm/discord, new thread, or such, not this thread)
I would like to add the following what the issue's are
1. Levelling 1-50
The reason there are no new players coming into the game is lack of community at low levels. There is hardly no one to group with and lack of activity in the battlegrounds. If i was a new player i wouldn't last very long if I saw everything at the start is dead. Not only is it dead but the places where we used to xp in the classic and SI area are not worth adventuring which players liked.
The game needs to be challenging as level 1-50 at the moment on live is just far to easy to level within 4-5 hours. I'm sure casual players can deal with a bit of a challenge even if it takes them a week to get to 50 casually. I'm a casual player myself and i'm not complaining at all if it takes that extra bit longer to level. It's whole part of the game and if everyone remembers it was part of the game concept.
My idea would be before F2P comes out
- Remove or decrease the xp on the quests in Battleground
- Update loot tables in Classic and SI so players can adventure and xp around those area's (If you have to add quest givers to give a boost of xp.
- Add special loots in Thidrank/Molvik and Cathal Valleyi so players have a chance to battle in there while levelling up and get a chance to see what RvR like at lower levels.
2. Remove Curse and Otherworlds
I think this campaign needs to be removed as it's just not necessary to what the game needs at the moment. There is to much NPC clicking and some bug issue's with credits. The layout of Campaign just isn't Dark Age of Camelot and in my eyes doesn't work. We need places to farm and get stuff that drop loots and end these quests/campaigns that give u items.
My idea would be before F2P comes out
- Update dragon drops and make the dragon harder to kill like old times.
- Update Galladoria/sidi etc
- Update epic armour for new level 50s to quest for
- Update possibly ML 10 for another area to get weapons/armour
3. RvR timers
Nothing much to say about this but to implement them. I don't think a 10-15 minute timer will penalise anyone. I'm sure many who are desperate to move over to another can wait that long and grab a cup of coffee before the timer goes up but it will make people think twice if they want to move to another realm and may stop part of the realm hopping.
My idea before F2P comes out
- Add a 10-15 minute timer either before you log in to any other realm
- Or add a 10-15 minute timer just for battlegrounds and New Frontiers area where people will be locked out if they hopped to another realm and would only allow to adventure round the PvE area's freely
- Add a bonus for those who stick to one realm for 1 day
4. Ban macro farmers and ban cheats anywhere in the game. Let's at least keep it to 2 accounts and not 8-16 accounts.
5. Advertise Advertise Advertise!
6. If you can't implement this to ywain servers then I suggest there needs to be a new server that can as I can say from now F2P will not solve the population on the live servers.
The issue with live is no realm timers, no one to xp with, it's to easy, pve content is horrible (OW and Curse) with bugs and when Carol or Shelia are not there we got no way of resetting encounter. The live servers need to go back to what it used to be where farming items rather than credit system which failed ToA and now has failed them once again.
I much prefer the Nostalgia to what DAoC is now. Yes people say we got to move with the times but I'm afraid the direction Broadsword have gone is just ruined the game for me. It's been cheapened where it isn't even worth paying for anymore.
Sorry @Solicfear1 but I have to disagree with most of this post. Nostalgia is nothing more than the grass seeming greener on the other side of the fence. It seems great till you get there and remember all the crap things you forgot. Everyone thought Old RA's would be great on some random reboot of a server. It took all of 6 months for people to remember all the bad things of Old RA's (pre-req for RA's, op'd RA's, etc). Quit living in a dream world of the past. Very few people have the time to farm for hours for 1 random item.
You want more PvE encounters? You want more "farming" instead of credit? You are the minority on that. How many people were asking for a BP system to bypass PvE? The vast majority. This is why I honestly feel sorry for BS. They do honestly try and listen to the community and give us what the majority is asking for. No, I'm not saying that they do it perfectly, but they do try. However, they can't balance everyone's personal interpretations of what constitutes a good server. If they made us "farm" as before than people would be pissed that they need to spend hours farming an item instead of out participating in RvR.
You CAN farm stuff Solic. People just don't want to. You can do all the ML encounters, you can farm items in ToA, you can do the Cursed and OW raids (most bugs have been fixed). But what you can't do is get mad because the vast majority of people don't want to waste time in PvE farming items. At one time DAoC had good PvE. Then games like WoW and other games came out. Most of the people that play DAoC still play for the RvR since there is NO game out there with the dynamic RvR system that DAoC offers. On the flip side, there are much better games for PvE out there and if BS thinks they can compete with them they are going to be sorry. As I said earlier, you are more than welcome to PvE till your little hearts content, but you can't complain about them making it so you don't have to PvE when we as the community were the ones that asked for it.
1. I'm living the dream world right now and I can't complain
2. Not add remove PvE encounters that suck like OW and Curse and just update Dragon, Galladoria and possibly ML 10. The PvE we got now isn't enjoyable what so ever it needs to be improved or removed and find something else that people find enjoyable.
3. You have to question why only 300-400 players are playing at peak during US and EU prime-time. It's because live servers isn't a game and not worth paying for reason no one wants to play it anymore.
4. I'm not bashing Broadsword I just think they've taken a wrong turn and should of invested in improving the game from level 1 up and seeing how can we make lower levels more fun! At the moment there isn't any low levels coming up because they quit after they've reached level 10 because there no one to group with. This game I remember was all about team work and working together to get to 50.
5. I'm happy to PvE to my heart contents and RvR but you wont improve the game cheapening it by making everything easy!
I want this game to improve and not go down a ditch but I'm not wasting my money on something that took ages to get your toon up to and then suddenly everything got completely nerfed at the end of it. It really makes those people who have worked so hard archive very little now. I much preferred farming my items then getting stuff given to me.
Nobody is bashing anyone and that is part of the problem. You are warning people before they have even said anything. This is constructive feedback, take it as such.
Ya I was mad when my post got [TOS] and edited with a warning on my account. Then people just a few posts down from mine bring up the same stuff in more depth... and it's perfectly fine for them to post about. Really?
- Sense of community / Realm Pride / Need help (and it is given)
1. PVE events do bring out people. Despite the bugs, complaints etc people do rally for epic battles with NPCs
2. Zerging is a realm / community thing
3. Farming for items
4. Guilds / Alliances
- Fun things
1. Ability to skin items
2. Trophies for houses
3. Houses
4. Dyes
5. Silly events (turning into a leprechaun)
- RvR (Blood, Sweat, Tears) This is unique to DAOC
1. Zerg for large scale fun
2. 8 man / Small group for more skilled fights. Really need to know your class. Needless to say I don't do this a lot but I do enjoy it and I love the action that it creates.
3. Solo action For me this basically means running but someday I will actually perf someone
4. Battlegrounds
- Adventure Places that mixed RvR with Mobs - Unique to DAOC
1. Laby - no reason to go there because nothing is needed from there
2. Darkness Falls - no reason to go there because nothing is needed from there
3. Demon's Breach
1. Levelling 1-50
The reason there are no new players coming into the game is lack of community at low levels. There is hardly no one to group with and lack of activity in the battlegrounds. If i was a new player i wouldn't last very long if I saw everything at the start is dead. Not only is it dead but the places where we used to xp in the classic and SI area are not worth adventuring which players liked.
The game needs to be challenging as level 1-50 at the moment on live is just far to easy to level within 4-5 hours. I'm sure casual players can deal with a bit of a challenge even if it takes them a week to get to 50 casually. I'm a casual player myself and i'm not complaining at all if it takes that extra bit longer to level. It's whole part of the game and if everyone remembers it was part of the game concept.
My idea would be before F2P comes out
- Remove or decrease the xp on the quests in Battleground
- Update loot tables in Classic and SI so players can adventure and xp around those area's (If you have to add quest givers to give a boost of xp.
- Add special loots in Thidrank/Molvik and Cathal Valleyi so players have a chance to battle in there while levelling up and get a chance to see what RvR like at lower levels.
2. Remove Curse and Otherworlds
I think this campaign needs to be removed as it's just not necessary to what the game needs at the moment. There is to much NPC clicking and some bug issue's with credits. The layout of Campaign just isn't Dark Age of Camelot and in my eyes doesn't work. We need places to farm and get stuff that drop loots and end these quests/campaigns that give u items.
My idea would be before F2P comes out
- Update dragon drops and make the dragon harder to kill like old times.
- Update Galladoria/sidi etc
- Update epic armour for new level 50s to quest for
- Update possibly ML 10 for another area to get weapons/armour
3. RvR timers
Nothing much to say about this but to implement them. I don't think a 10-15 minute timer will penalise anyone. I'm sure many who are desperate to move over to another can wait that long and grab a cup of coffee before the timer goes up but it will make people think twice if they want to move to another realm and may stop part of the realm hopping.
My idea before F2P comes out
- Add a 10-15 minute timer either before you log in to any other realm
- Or add a 10-15 minute timer just for battlegrounds and New Frontiers area where people will be locked out if they hopped to another realm and would only allow to adventure round the PvE area's freely
- Add a bonus for those who stick to one realm for 1 day
4. Ban macro farmers and ban cheats anywhere in the game. Let's at least keep it to 2 accounts and not 8-16 accounts.
5. Advertise Advertise Advertise!
6. If you can't implement this to ywain servers then I suggest there needs to be a new server that can as I can say from now F2P will not solve the population on the live servers.
1. No, no, no.... Who besides you and a very tiny minority complains that leveling is too fast? Nobody. Seriously, scroll through the forums and find me one thread with any sort of action that is asking for harder leveling. It doesn't exist. Also, this game is 18 years old. There is no "new" players coming to play here. Those days are long gone. There are lots of returning players (myself and everyone I play with included) and not a single one of the players I play with has EVER complained that leveling was "too fast". NOBODY!!
2. You can't remove the quests now. OW is super easy to do with less than a fg and is not confusing or difficult. Cursed is a bit more confusing and difficult but since they have made it easier why would you remove it now? Almost all the bugs have been fixed (finally) and if you remove it then you just make it more difficult for returning players to get templated. Once again, you think people are clamoring for more "farming" in PvE by saing they should update Galla, dragon, etc, but nobody is asking for that. As a matter of fact I can show you TONS of threads asking for the EXACT opposite of what you are asking for.
3. I am fine with them implementing RvR timers. No issue with that at all from me, but realize that for as many issues as this will fix, it will also upset some players as well.
4. Absolutely agree with this! One of the biggest complaints of players is that the impression is that you can cheat on this game and only get a slap on the wrist. That needs to change.
5. Also agree 100%. I don't think you will get "new" players to pay a monthly fee for an 18 year old game that they have yet to ever play, BUT if they push F2P with endless conquest and push the ease that that it is for people to get out and start RvR'ing it will get more returning players back.
6. Although I'm personally not in favor of implementing some sort of special rule set or "classic" server as it would split the population, I can see the merits of putting in a seasonal/ladder server that lasts 3-6 months that focus on certain patch settings that when ended would put those toons back into Ywain. This could bring back alot of people that have the nostalgia for doing things like they used to.
All it comes down to Solic is just like everyone else, you have this vision in your head of how YOU would run the server. You are not thinking at all about the community as a whole. I can find thread after thread of players that complain about how they don't want to spend time leveling or farming gear, yet you ignore all of that and because YOU enjoy PvE you think they should cater to you directly. Like I said before.... You want to make leveling harder? Good, then next time you level go and farm mobs all day. Nobody said you have to go to the BG's or dungeons and do tasks. The system is still in place to take your time with leveling. You want to do Gala raids and farm bosses, do ML raids, and farm for aritifacts? Then do it! They didn't remove them. They all still exist. You are just upset because NOBODY wants to do those things. So your great idea is to force everyone to do stuff they don't want to do. We get it, you enjoy PvE, but that VAST majority of players do not.
You know people where making many of the same 'classic server rocks' arguments two years ago when that other server launched and its initial showing of large amounts of players clearly displayed it as the superior game type.
How's that server doing these days, let's see...
Oh wow 73 active players online at the making of this post, higher than I thought!
Clearly shows they knew better and that the classic play style is really what people want, the initial hype and newness had nothing to do with the large numbers at the start nope this is what people always wanted. Broadsword would do well to copy it as well as they can if they wish to retain as large of a player base that a free alternative completely squandered in 2 years, though really it was over in less than 1 year, yikes.
And you can spare me your (I'm sure) perfectly good arguments of why it failed and how the Bird will be oh so much better, please, once the initial hype dies down it'll be the same story. By the time it does though I'm sure another alternative will be prepared and the same cycle will continue. The only thing to be learned here is that new shiny free things are cool, so something like a ladder reset system would likely be very successful.
Now, as I believe that you can't just complain and not offer up counter suggestions... My ideas for improving the population would be as follows:
1. Lower the cost. Lower the cost of monthly subscription and especially lower the cost to buy multiple months of subscriptions. There are brand new games that don't cost $15 a month to play. Anyone saying $ is not a factor has not played on any of the other free servers out there. I did for 4+ years and most of the players I played with money was a factor. Why pay for something when you can play it for free?
2. Improve QoL changes in the game. The DAoC of today is WAY better than when it was when I played before. The /bank feature, speed charges, sup pots, and all of the random things that have been implemented over time made a HUGE difference to me when I came back to live. If it was not easier to do things then I would have never stayed playing here when I came back. They should look to expand on this further. Add more random items to the BP recipes. Things like Skull Keeper or other random template items that are not in the current list. Make getting Sup/Celerity pots easier.
3. This is more of an offshoot on #1, but they need to add more stuff to the MTX shop. That is a serious form of money they could be earning if they just expanded it further. More skins, effects, mounts, and any other sort of random fluff should be there to offset a cost reduction in the game. If they make more money on MTX then they can make the game more affordable.
4. FIX THE EXISTING BUGS!!!! There are still WAY too many bugs floating around. I should not be crashing to desktop almost every night I play because I use shift+right click to switch an item in my inventory. People should not have to bypass certain areas in main cities to avoid crashing. I shouldn't lose a buff because I switched out a bracer that was not even the one with the charge. There are so many random bugs that should not exist on an 18 year old game. I had very few bugs at all when I played on that certain other free server before their reboot. If a free server can run a relatively low bugged server, than I would hope a paid live server could do a better job of this.
5. They need a viable free 2 play model. I know they are working on this, but this is maybe the most important patch they have done to this game in the last 10 years. If done right it will jack our population up with returning players. If done right, many of those players will decide to pay eventually or even spend money on the MTX shops. Why play on a janky free server when you can play on the actual live server for FREE?! The hard part is going to be doing this right. I can't say for sure what they should do to make this right, but they need to make sure that the people playing on F2P are not just getting a watered down version of the game that they can only enjoy a little bit of. They need to be able to experience what Live can offer, but still leave them wanting a bit more to encourage them to become subscribers eventually. It will be a tough challenge to master, but if done correctly could completely fix the population issues and make this game last another 18 years. As others have pointed out, there are people who want to play the game, it's just a matter of getting them to come here instead of playing on some free server.
Endless Conquest will certainly be a crucial component for the longevity of DAoC. I really hope we get an update on its current status/progress so we can fine tune our feedback accordingly.
Regarding the PvE aspect, vanilla DAoC was a grind fest with little competition. More MMOs have come out since then fine tuning their PvE content while DAoC PvE has remained largely unchanged except for becoming easier with fewer people. As some have stated, the appeal to this old game is the RvR and not the PvE. The Gaheris population reflects this.
A season/ladder server rotating through rulesets and/or patches coupled with rollover to Ywain could be very successful. It is clear from the "other servers" that a fresh start brings in people. The problem is retaining players which a ladder system may solve.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
A lot of lessons and best practices can be gleaned from the ‘other servers’
1) New so an even reset playing field no rr12’s farming new toons in Kings templates.
2) Classic/Si/QoL changes make the gameplay much more smooth and faster then Vanilla DAOC. /train and an account bank come to mind.
3) free meaning doesn’t cost you 16-32$ USD
4) not run by Live alas most of those playing from Bors tried live and it’s literally night and day from what it was 3+ years ago.
Quotes on my phone are botched, but I'm a proponent of solics idea of nerfing big quests and slowing xp a "bit". Enough where you dont get a 50 in 3 hours, but not 3 days. Leveling is a nice, stress free, easy way of community building. It adds some of the mm, back into mmorpg(for daoc) --id argue that if you want bgs to be big gains for xp, that all quests revolve around killing players, and that's it.
Daoc is an amazing rvr game, but there needs to be off rvr things to do. People need other wheels to spin. I dont always want to go out and get run over for 3 hours. Sometimes I just want to do toa if it's to earn a few bucks for my next temp or something. You still need a balance of pve and pvp, but not with solutions like curse or ow, imo. The game has a ton of content you can tweak the encounters and loot tables to and spice things up. We dont need to reinvent anything.
F2P model isn't going to massively increase the player base for any great length of time, bit like the shards, fun for a while then off they go again.
The only model that would work is daoc to become free for all, and all monetary gain to be extracted from mithril purchases, maybe even to buy BP via mithril so people could access bountycraft without grinds in rvr.
There is no playerbase out there waiting for another server that wouldn't take away from live servers, no more servers please, focus on live.
I agree with solic on old areas like galla, tusc glacier and sidi, they need revamping with top tier loot models, heck there's a whole expansion of toa, full of brilliant temples and dungeons that are wasting away that could harbor top tier loot and items too, even if it was just updated with new skins for the skinners out there.
The main problem at the root is broadsword, they just don't seem to care anymore. Running the game, clinging onto every last subscriber with little effort as possible, same old quests year on year, years old bugs, broken pet pathing, crashing, ld's, CM's with too much money, no transfer system ingame etc etc. Communication is at an all time low, very selective information, daoc site updated twice since the 14th December and i'm sure grab bags are mostly made up.
Nobody is bashing anyone and that is part of the problem. You are warning people before they have even said anything. This is constructive feedback, take it as such.
Ya I was mad when my post got [TOS] and edited with a warning on my account. Then people just a few posts down from mine bring up the same stuff in more depth... and it's perfectly fine for them to post about. Really?
Only the 1% may do it, the ones that master the US language and know where to stick their tongues, the rest they just build a wall to keep out.
Seen alot of good post in this thread, best in years.
I agree that updating the loot tables on the underused zones would provide some extra "stuff" for people to do in the game that are looking for more PvE. The problem with this is that they need to make sure IF they do this that they don't put in a bunch of new items that require everyone to farm for new templates. See OW and Cursed raids for examples of this. If they want to update the loot tables than they need to keep items with similar stats to currently used items AND make sure that all the charges/procs are on currently existing items. Anytime I hear about updating the loot system my butt hole puckers up and I start thinking of Cursed and the heal procs, IP charges, and Ghostly MoV necklace charges. Fine if they want to increase the amount of items that can be used for templates, but no more trying new procs/charges or insane stats.
A lot of lessons and best practices can be gleaned from the ‘other servers’
1) New so an even reset playing field no rr12’s farming new toons in Kings templates.
2) Classic/Si/QoL changes make the gameplay much more smooth and faster then Vanilla DAOC. /train and an account bank come to mind.
3) free meaning doesn’t cost you 16-32$ USD
4) not run by Live alas most of those playing from Bors tried live and it’s literally night and day from what it was 3+ years ago.
I believe that the season/ladder progression server would do all of these things. It would put new players on an equal footing. It would allow for different patch/rule sets while still being able to maintain QoL changes. I know you have been a huge proponent of the progression servers much like Path of Exile runs. I think that could work, and although it would split the server, it would also fold a lot of returning players back into Ywain when those seasons were done. So if they did a classic only server (1.165 and below) for 6 months than after 6 months many of those players that didn't want to do ToA or whatever would be next would than be on Ywain.
Gaheris population reflects that not many likes to play DAoC to ONLY PvE, it shows nothing about how many have or havent left because they enjoyed PvE and PvP on the same server.
You want more PvE encounters? You want more "farming" instead of credit? You are the minority on that.
You CAN farm stuff Solic. People just don't want to. You can do all the ML encounters, you can farm items in ToA, you can do the Cursed and OW raids (most bugs have been fixed). But what you can't do is get mad because the vast majority of people don't want to waste time in PvE farming items.
The vast majority of DAoC players kind of quit, who remains to play DAoC are kind of a minority in the total pool of posible people that could play/return to DAoC, we will never know whos the majority and how many likes what cause they havent been asked, its just the same 10 - 15 people on the forums going back and forth.
Sure your circle of DAoC friends might only enjoy RvR and that makes it seem to you like thats the majority, one of my circle of friends enjoy both PvE and PvP, an old cicle of friends from my days of purely 8v8 only likes 8v8 and makes that seem like the majority to them, people that likes certain things pretty much always ends up with people that like the same thing as them, so they always think they are the majority.
Ofc the people that enjoy the current version of DAoC will be the majority both ingame and on the forums, cause the others have left.
If we want to stop the decline and increase the population, we kind of have to listen to the people that dont play and why they dont play, if the current population wants to increase DAoC's player count, we have to make sacrifices to what we want to fit in stuff others like.
DAoC always had room for pure PvE'ers, people who enjoy PvP and PvE in DAoC like myself, people who wants to only PvE, people who wants to only craft, etc. There are lots of ways to do it, so those who strikcly wants to PvP have items to trade with people that strikly wants to PvE, make decent gear drops in all content with variations that make people want to trade, sell BP stuff PvE'ers want, BP components for crafting crafters want. Sure this may be far to late to do anything about now.
Personally i would be happy with just having ML10, SI, DF, classic drops, etc, that matches OW and cursed, nothing game changing, same power level, just maybe a tad different stats and updated procs, so people had options in ways to get their gear and variation, like sometimes you find a piece of gear with 5% body, spirit, energy, that you really wish was 5% heat, cold, matter instead to fit what you wanted to use in other slots. ( Yes some people will agree with me, others will disagree, thats life )
I find it abit odd tho that the same company who closed down task dungeons, cause they wanted people outside in the world i think it was for grouping and stuff ( Maybe my memory fails me on this part lol ), made it posible to quest solo to 50 in a few hours.
It seems like there are no direction or vision in things done, its just thrown together to shut someone up moaning on the forums.
Even tho the current DAoC population is small, the people on this forum are very few compared to the remaining population and i really wish Broadsword would ignore us all here for a little and do some login or email surveys to get a broader perspective on whats going on, cause clearly the way things have been done the last 2 -3 years isnt working, in my eye's atleast.
Quotes on my phone are botched, but I'm a proponent of solics idea of nerfing big quests and slowing xp a "bit". Enough where you dont get a 50 in 3 hours, but not 3 days. Leveling is a nice, stress free, easy way of community building. It adds some of the mm, back into mmorpg(for daoc) --id argue that if you want bgs to be big gains for xp, that all quests revolve around killing players, and that's it.
Daoc is an amazing rvr game, but there needs to be off rvr things to do. People need other wheels to spin. I dont always want to go out and get run over for 3 hours. Sometimes I just want to do toa if it's to earn a few bucks for my next temp or something. You still need a balance of pve and pvp, but not with solutions like curse or ow, imo. The game has a ton of content you can tweak the encounters and loot tables to and spice things up. We dont need to reinvent anything.
Totaly agree, short and to the point unlike the walls i seem to build, rofl
Many have said it but thought I would just put my 2c in. I would love a classic server that is updated (qos, balanced (no major class refresh, but just damge/timmers,ext), new short term events aimed at new rvr action not items) but I feel they would need a free to play model active first.
The free to play model also has to be focused on getting players (and there for keeping paying players) and not making money. What I mean by this is that some games play the it's greener on the other side model of ftp (no xp for you, no nice items for you, no op classes for you, unless you pay) this makes players feel like you have to pay to win or pay to progress; so the user pays or quits. The other way to do it is to give the player the full game, but at a much slower rate, or only for a type of play style (no stealth, no casters, ext). This keeps the free players playing without hitting the pay or leave wall (there by making your paying people happy)
Anytime I hear about updating the loot system my butt hole puckers up and I start thinking of Cursed and the heal procs, IP charges, and Ghostly MoV necklace charges. Fine if they want to increase the amount of items that can be used for templates, but no more trying new procs/charges or insane stats.
Totaly agree, no more powercreep please, just variation in equaly strong items.
I wish they would bring every heal proc down to 120, remove some of all the /uses and change GMOV 7% Hot, to 5% like everything else. Just to name a few lol.
Create new looking armor and weapons to skin with usable stats.
I, for one, am a huge fan of my Mercenary's completely bland cursed chest piece. I think having absolutely no armor pattern/design on it add's to the rustic appearance.
You know people where making many of the same 'classic server rocks' arguments two years ago when that other server launched and its initial showing of large amounts of players clearly displayed it as the superior game type.
How's that server doing these days, let's see...
Oh wow 73 active players online at the making of this post, higher than I thought!
You`re missing the point that this classic server was fakked up by his own team and the die-hard-1.65 players. They denied every form of QoL and their attitude..omfg. Don`t compare it with the current server, it needs a restart 3-4 times/day, it isn`t bugfree, but overall it is stable.
If such a small team of daoc enthusiasts (that don`t get money in any form) is able to run a stable server with 3k players at primetime, why isn`t BS able to grab the old classic server code out of the desk, overhaul it and make it run? Is there anything to loose at the current state of 4-500 players at primetime, 1/3 of them beeing buffbots....?
I can agree with alot of what you said @Vrisslar. You are 100% correct that more players enjoyed PvE in the past when the population was much higher than it is now. You are also correct that nobody can for sure say why those people left. I would guess it was any number of reasons... They could have got mad at a particular patch, they got burnt out, they got married had kids and didn't have time, etc.... However, the community that is currently playing has been VERY vocal about not wanting to do PvE to get items. Sure, there are probably some people that love PvE, but there are free games with MUCH better PvE out there. How does DAoC compete with that without having to completely shut down and create a whole new game? Not to mention, even if they found a way to do that, then they would again upset the current players which have been very vocal about not wanting anymore PvE.
The whole reason they put in the BP system was in response to people being upset about having to farm Curse and OW to obtain items that are a must for most classes wanting to play in RvR. I'm not saying that anyone who plays DAoC hates PvE, I'm saying they are the minority, and if BS did something to make leveling harder or farming for items more difficult it would upset way more than it would please. For the record, I always enjoyed the grind to 50 and farming a template, but I certainly was not complaining when they made things way easier. The time sink and grind in RvR is enough to keep me going. I don't have time to spend 2-3 months leveling a toon to 50, getting ML10, CL15, and getting templated. I did in my early 20's, not so much in my late 30's.
Also, I cannot state that enough, even if BS was able to contact ALL old players and ask why they no longer play an 18 year old game, how would they accommodate so many different ideas? Just look at this thread. Some want a ToA server, some want classic, some want a ladder/progression server, and the list goes on and on. Some want more PvE, some want less PvE. Some want leveling to be harder, others want it easier. How do you answer so many completely different ideas of what DAoC should be? BS does what they can. They listen on the forums and try to determine what the majority of players currently playing want. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Sure, there are probably some people that love PvE, but there are free games with MUCH better PvE out there. How does DAoC compete with that without having to completely shut down and create a whole new game? Not to mention, even if they found a way to do that, then they would again upset the current players which have been very vocal about not wanting anymore PvE. The whole reason they put in the BP system was in response to people being upset about having to farm Curse and OW to obtain items that are a must for most classes wanting to play in RvR. I'm not saying that anyone who plays DAoC hates PvE, I'm saying they are the minority, and if BS did something to make leveling harder or farming for items more difficult it would upset way more than it would please.
How is it excatly you know who's a minority in what ? the 5% using the forums ? your circle of friends that enjoy what you do ? I guess next we will be talking about the silent majority and putting words in the mouth of people who havent spoken them self yet. How about we all speak on our own behalf and let others speak for them self.
If you would read all of my post, im pretty sure you will see that i have never asked for the game to be turned in to a PvE game ( I PvP first, but enjoy the PvE too as a break at times ), i have asked for more options in PvE for the same or similar rewards, different roads to the same goal.
I dont care if you can buy everything in game for BP, glass, scales, blood seals, diamond seals, whatever, i just would like old zones to atleast reward decent G and something that could be used in a RvR template, im not interested in new or stronger items.
DAoC does not have to compete with any of the PvE games, i personally enjoy PvE in DAoC cause of its unique ways the classes work in PvE. To name a few examples, i dont see any other games out there with focus pulling, i dont see any games out there with DAoC's CC system, i dont see any games out there with spam able PBAE and tank guard, most newer mmo's pet's on pet classes cant compare to caba / SM / chanter / BD / Ani / necro / theurg / druid, hunter pets, in newer games pets are pretty much dummies you cant control or do much with.
How does DAoC compete with other PvP games ? Much like its PvE, by being different, from classes and how they work, to how you fight things, an example Elder scrolls online got keeps too, that dosnt mean we have to shut down DAoC to revamp it, we didnt close down and revamped DAoC or gave up on DAoC's RvR when Warhammer online released, look whos alive and who isnt.
Personally i didnt like curse or OW either and i still dont, that dosnt mean i hate PvE, i dont like the way its made with quest and single time rewards, thats why i would like areas of the game that dosnt work like that to drop similar items to give options in the way we can do things, already described it above, in this post and the last.
Also, I cannot state that enough, even if BS was able to contact ALL old players and ask why they no longer play an 18 year old game, how would they accommodate so many different ideas? Just look at this thread. Some want a ToA server, some want classic, some want a ladder/progression server, and the list goes on and on. Some want more PvE, some want less PvE. Some want leveling to be harder, others want it easier. How do you answer so many completely different ideas of what DAoC should be? BS does what they can.
They ofc cant contact or please all, there will ofc have to be limits, atleast it would give them an idea of why people that play today actualy do play and a general idea about the major points that made people leave. Then braodsword can make a direction and vision that fits with the current playerbase and some of the major issues that could posible make people come back. Currently none knows if pople quit cause of Broadsword, class changes, RvR changes, PvE, etc.
They listen on the forums and try to determine what the majority of players currently playing want. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Listening to the forums, where maybe 5% of the playerbase comes and its generally the unhappy loud people that come, trolls and stuff, isnt really a majority and its not really a wise move to base game decisions affecting 100% of the playerbase around that imo, but thats how i see it and clearly you dont, so that we wont agree on hehe ( yes yes its not 5% but it clearly isnt 50% either )
Regarding players who quit, there is an exit survey when cancelling accounts. Therefore, Broadsword has the information on hand from players that quit who spent the time filling it out.
Regarding PvE, I don't see the appeal outside of preparing for RvR. There is no need to add PvE content to DAoC as it clearly hasn't increased the population (i.e. OW and Curse campaigns). Updating loot tables for old content would be fine but would require careful implementation to prevent gear creeping.
Other MMORPGs don't have focus pulling or strong pet classes because they are centered around group play. This really isn't a bonus to DAoC as it prevents the necessity to form groups outside of one or two bots. The only "unique" part about DAoC PvE is you can literally do everything with one macro group. I don't see this being a good argument for investing time/resources on a component of the game that doesn't require a community to complete.
DAoC is truly unique in the RvR scene and it's the reason why the game still has a population. All you have to do is compare /who NF and /who to know where most of the players are.
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
DAoC is truly unique in the RvR scene and it's the reason why the game still has a population. All you have to do is compare /who NF and /who to know where most of the players are.
Mid right now: /who = 117 and /who NF 64, thats roughly 54% in NF.
Edit:
Alb /who 115 and /who NF 65.
Hib /who 125 and /who NF 64 with a BG on topax up in NF.
what use is this again ? Edit: <---- that came out wrong and wasnt ment in an provocative or rude manner, sorry
DAoC is truly unique in the RvR scene and it's the reason why the game still has a population. All you have to do is compare /who NF and /who to know where most of the players are.
Mid right now: /who = 117 and /who NF 64, thats roughly 54% in NF.
Edit:
Alb /who 115 and /who NF 65.
Hib /who 125 and /who NF 64 with a BG on topax up in NF.
what use is this again ? Edit: <---- that came out wrong and wasnt ment in an provocative or rude manner, sorry
It shows a solid 50% of the population is in NF. Include the Battlegrounds and the fraction of players occupying a RvR zone outweighs any other zone in the game. Why do you suppose that is the case?
"The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Answers
Down the road a new server and FTP will be nice options, im just kind of scared that FTP now, with the game in its current situation will just give it a bad reputation, for anyone that actualy tries it and the people they talk to.
As i said in my previous post i really belive some information collection is needed from former and current players in form of surveys, then a DAoC rescue, repair plan and vision for the future can be build around what is learned, in a direction that ofc stays true to what DAoC have always been.
If that plan and vision brings a population back and stays true to what DAoC is, i personally dont care if they lock me to 1 realm to restore realm pride.
There are other places much more active where you can observe what is successful. Again there is significant demand for a classic/si server with QoL adjustments.
GL
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
You sum it up perfectly.
any time someone mentions Dem Hibbies i have to smile. i guess you refer to something like :
i was in the alb group that made this clip, on my wiz btw
and yeah, rose tinted spectacles ... i had to be reminded just how un-userfriendly daoc was at start and playing on a freeshard 2 years ago was a good reminder of that...
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
i think the 'succes' of the alternative server 2 years ago and the new one has more to do with dissatisfaction with BS than with people wanting to play such an old version of the game. people want doac, they just don't want a daoc managed the way BS does.
Major upside to the other side is population, 2,500 individual players versus 600 (50% of these being bots). In an MMO, that’s kind of critical. Yes pop will lower over time.
On the other side, you need others to progress, you are forced to socialize. On Live, you can do everything solo, you never have to group ever. Not having to care for others exacerbates toxic behaviors. You can’t do anything about it because it’s been like that for too long.
On the other side, they take care of cheaters and publicly announce bans. I know bs can’t do it on live because of the rules, but it does help improve faith in management when they are transparent about what they do.
Seems like the other side, while being free, as more ressources dedicated to the game than Bs running a paid version. There are always 6-7 GMs available in discord (compared to 1 aka Beib). The « boss » engages daily in conversations, answers questions directly in discord.
They fix bug, the bug tracker is public, there is transparency in their actions.
All this gives the impression that things are being worked on, improved, that if something is wrong now they will work to improve them.
You will notice that not once I mentionned patch level, OP items, stupid pve campains and raids, broken classes, etc.
That does not mean that they play on live instead....
my point exactly
Just look at the cursed raid or even OW. Both raids required BG's to complete at the start. Something to give a sense of community back to us. What did we as the players do? Complain. Most of us felt like it was a detriment to have to join a BG to get gear needed to compete. In answer to our complaints, they lowered the difficulty of each raid to needing a fg or less and also put on the bp currency.
It's a double edged sword. As you said, the lack of community is a serious issue for sure. However, if you put in the time sinks like before you would also have people ticked off about having to spend what little time they have farming.
Not to forget the bugs and new people to BG's when one was finaly running got lost in the quests and missed credit.
With as much, to me atleast, good PvE DAoC has to offer, i think its really sad that most of it are ignored and dont have any value. Even after 17 years and 70+ chars across different EU and US servers and accounts, i still find both PvE and RvR good fun, just sad to see so much not used and no pugs going.
Ah well
90% is a number that is really just thrown out there. There is no way to actually capture this.
There are a fair number of people who have never posted here or other boards, that actually have good feedback. I have heard it. They just can't be bothered as the communication, though it is professed to be both ways, is not there.
To be fair, the OW stuff, there were significant bugs upon release. That are still THERE! I try to not do quests, because, well they are pve. I support others who are doing it and couldn't care less about completion, but those people do care. There is no good excuse to have these bugs still there. That is just one example.
To have people spend time in what is considered a 'time sink' and have these types of issues that are not fixed, is inexcusable.
Most people complain and would bitch about anything given the chance. I kind of compare it to children. Kids complain, whine and will do whatever they can to get their way. We, as parents, have to wade though all the garbage and decide as to what is important and relevant to the long term plan of our children. In the case of BS, there is no long term plan. Things tend to be reactionary, instead of proactive. That is a problem.
Also, obviously the 90% was just my over estimation of the fact that the vast majority of people still playing just don't have time for the same PvE that once made that part of the game great. Because of this people have wanted things easier to do with a fg or less. Which is nice, especially for people who play at off peak hours. But it also takes away from the "community" aspect that is lacking from the good ol' days.
I entirely disagree with this. The other side has the same sort of mechanics that this one does in terms of things you can or cant do solo. That one may even exasperate that with farmable currency and perks for solo things. The only you think that is because being social there is easier with a larger pool of people. You still have the same 1 or 200 jerks, but you also have pool of 600 nice people to engage with.
I agree with some of the other non-ruleset stuff that's been said here though.
The issue with live is no realm timers, no one to xp with, it's to easy, pve content is horrible (OW and Curse) with bugs and when Carol or Shelia are not there we got no way of resetting encounter. The live servers need to go back to what it used to be where farming items rather than credit system which failed ToA and now has failed them once again.
I much prefer the Nostalgia to what DAoC is now. Yes people say we got to move with the times but I'm afraid the direction Broadsword have gone is just ruined the game for me. It's been cheapened where it isn't even worth paying for anymore.
Also a general reminder that advocating for or promoting unauthorised servers isn't allowed here.
Other than an issue with CH9 and one with Mid Ch3, both since fixed (thanks to the help of people doing it and communicating with me about them), the only thing I've had to do with Curse encounters is spawn it as another group just did it moments before. I'm not aware of any issues or bugs with it otherwise so please, if you are, let me know what they are so I can get them looked at, thanks! (pm/discord, new thread, or such, not this thread)
Broadsword Online Games
There are far more issue's than just Curse here Carol.
Anyway if you make a new server I'll be back but for now I'm just going to save my coins
Some things to take away is a public bug tracker, more active devs (other then Beib), account stash (its 5 pages elsewhere). The cash shop is just terrible, it needs a massive overhaul and the ability to acesss online.
If F2P is going to save this game then it cannot be super restrictive, because they have another free alternative that’s tried and true.
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
2. pick a character
3. pick a realm
4. play
Like this statement I’m about to make
Perhaps the reason you allow nate to ever post again and play the game is because you don’t know the difference between the people who want to make the game better and those who merely wish to be a constant disruption and a detriment to the game with their idiotic daily posts.
Maybe taking the feedback of what is currently working on a fake server and adopting their transparency of nearly everything going on would go a long way in making people believe that BS is running a business rather than a side gig with sporadic updates.
I personally hate the new server and it’s slow grind and then having more drawn out pve to be rvr ready. Maybe taking that into account you can tweak the f2p system so that it won’t scare away players. Combine f2p with a come back campaign. Perhaps awarding those coming back with enough to get one bp crafted item as well to speed up a returning players template needs
Sorry @Solicfear1 but I have to disagree with most of this post. Nostalgia is nothing more than the grass seeming greener on the other side of the fence. It seems great till you get there and remember all the crap things you forgot. Everyone thought Old RA's would be great on some random reboot of a server. It took all of 6 months for people to remember all the bad things of Old RA's (pre-req for RA's, op'd RA's, etc). Quit living in a dream world of the past. Very few people have the time to farm for hours for 1 random item.
You want more PvE encounters? You want more "farming" instead of credit? You are the minority on that. How many people were asking for a BP system to bypass PvE? The vast majority. This is why I honestly feel sorry for BS. They do honestly try and listen to the community and give us what the majority is asking for. No, I'm not saying that they do it perfectly, but they do try. However, they can't balance everyone's personal interpretations of what constitutes a good server. If they made us "farm" as before than people would be pissed that they need to spend hours farming an item instead of out participating in RvR.
You CAN farm stuff Solic. People just don't want to. You can do all the ML encounters, you can farm items in ToA, you can do the Cursed and OW raids (most bugs have been fixed). But what you can't do is get mad because the vast majority of people don't want to waste time in PvE farming items. At one time DAoC had good PvE. Then games like WoW and other games came out. Most of the people that play DAoC still play for the RvR since there is NO game out there with the dynamic RvR system that DAoC offers. On the flip side, there are much better games for PvE out there and if BS thinks they can compete with them they are going to be sorry. As I said earlier, you are more than welcome to PvE till your little hearts content, but you can't complain about them making it so you don't have to PvE when we as the community were the ones that asked for it.
I would like to add the following what the issue's are
1. Levelling 1-50
The reason there are no new players coming into the game is lack of community at low levels. There is hardly no one to group with and lack of activity in the battlegrounds. If i was a new player i wouldn't last very long if I saw everything at the start is dead. Not only is it dead but the places where we used to xp in the classic and SI area are not worth adventuring which players liked.
The game needs to be challenging as level 1-50 at the moment on live is just far to easy to level within 4-5 hours. I'm sure casual players can deal with a bit of a challenge even if it takes them a week to get to 50 casually. I'm a casual player myself and i'm not complaining at all if it takes that extra bit longer to level. It's whole part of the game and if everyone remembers it was part of the game concept.
My idea would be before F2P comes out
- Remove or decrease the xp on the quests in Battleground
- Update loot tables in Classic and SI so players can adventure and xp around those area's (If you have to add quest givers to give a boost of xp.
- Add special loots in Thidrank/Molvik and Cathal Valleyi so players have a chance to battle in there while levelling up and get a chance to see what RvR like at lower levels.
2. Remove Curse and Otherworlds
I think this campaign needs to be removed as it's just not necessary to what the game needs at the moment. There is to much NPC clicking and some bug issue's with credits. The layout of Campaign just isn't Dark Age of Camelot and in my eyes doesn't work. We need places to farm and get stuff that drop loots and end these quests/campaigns that give u items.
My idea would be before F2P comes out
- Update dragon drops and make the dragon harder to kill like old times.
- Update Galladoria/sidi etc
- Update epic armour for new level 50s to quest for
- Update possibly ML 10 for another area to get weapons/armour
3. RvR timers
Nothing much to say about this but to implement them. I don't think a 10-15 minute timer will penalise anyone. I'm sure many who are desperate to move over to another can wait that long and grab a cup of coffee before the timer goes up but it will make people think twice if they want to move to another realm and may stop part of the realm hopping.
My idea before F2P comes out
- Add a 10-15 minute timer either before you log in to any other realm
- Or add a 10-15 minute timer just for battlegrounds and New Frontiers area where people will be locked out if they hopped to another realm and would only allow to adventure round the PvE area's freely
- Add a bonus for those who stick to one realm for 1 day
4. Ban macro farmers and ban cheats anywhere in the game. Let's at least keep it to 2 accounts and not 8-16 accounts.
5. Advertise Advertise Advertise!
6. If you can't implement this to ywain servers then I suggest there needs to be a new server that can as I can say from now F2P will not solve the population on the live servers.
1. I'm living the dream world right now and I can't complain
2. Not add remove PvE encounters that suck like OW and Curse and just update Dragon, Galladoria and possibly ML 10. The PvE we got now isn't enjoyable what so ever it needs to be improved or removed and find something else that people find enjoyable.
3. You have to question why only 300-400 players are playing at peak during US and EU prime-time. It's because live servers isn't a game and not worth paying for reason no one wants to play it anymore.
4. I'm not bashing Broadsword I just think they've taken a wrong turn and should of invested in improving the game from level 1 up and seeing how can we make lower levels more fun! At the moment there isn't any low levels coming up because they quit after they've reached level 10 because there no one to group with. This game I remember was all about team work and working together to get to 50.
5. I'm happy to PvE to my heart contents and RvR but you wont improve the game cheapening it by making everything easy!
Ya I was mad when my post got [TOS] and edited with a warning on my account. Then people just a few posts down from mine bring up the same stuff in more depth... and it's perfectly fine for them to post about. Really?
- Sense of community / Realm Pride / Need help (and it is given)
1. PVE events do bring out people. Despite the bugs, complaints etc people do rally for epic battles with NPCs
2. Zerging is a realm / community thing
3. Farming for items
4. Guilds / Alliances
- Fun things
1. Ability to skin items
2. Trophies for houses
3. Houses
4. Dyes
5. Silly events (turning into a leprechaun)
- RvR (Blood, Sweat, Tears) This is unique to DAOC
1. Zerg for large scale fun
2. 8 man / Small group for more skilled fights. Really need to know your class. Needless to say I don't do this a lot but I do enjoy it and I love the action that it creates.
3. Solo action For me this basically means running but someday I will actually perf someone
4. Battlegrounds
- Adventure Places that mixed RvR with Mobs - Unique to DAOC
1. Laby - no reason to go there because nothing is needed from there
2. Darkness Falls - no reason to go there because nothing is needed from there
3. Demon's Breach
1. No, no, no.... Who besides you and a very tiny minority complains that leveling is too fast? Nobody. Seriously, scroll through the forums and find me one thread with any sort of action that is asking for harder leveling. It doesn't exist. Also, this game is 18 years old. There is no "new" players coming to play here. Those days are long gone. There are lots of returning players (myself and everyone I play with included) and not a single one of the players I play with has EVER complained that leveling was "too fast". NOBODY!!
2. You can't remove the quests now. OW is super easy to do with less than a fg and is not confusing or difficult. Cursed is a bit more confusing and difficult but since they have made it easier why would you remove it now? Almost all the bugs have been fixed (finally) and if you remove it then you just make it more difficult for returning players to get templated. Once again, you think people are clamoring for more "farming" in PvE by saing they should update Galla, dragon, etc, but nobody is asking for that. As a matter of fact I can show you TONS of threads asking for the EXACT opposite of what you are asking for.
3. I am fine with them implementing RvR timers. No issue with that at all from me, but realize that for as many issues as this will fix, it will also upset some players as well.
4. Absolutely agree with this! One of the biggest complaints of players is that the impression is that you can cheat on this game and only get a slap on the wrist. That needs to change.
5. Also agree 100%. I don't think you will get "new" players to pay a monthly fee for an 18 year old game that they have yet to ever play, BUT if they push F2P with endless conquest and push the ease that that it is for people to get out and start RvR'ing it will get more returning players back.
6. Although I'm personally not in favor of implementing some sort of special rule set or "classic" server as it would split the population, I can see the merits of putting in a seasonal/ladder server that lasts 3-6 months that focus on certain patch settings that when ended would put those toons back into Ywain. This could bring back alot of people that have the nostalgia for doing things like they used to.
All it comes down to Solic is just like everyone else, you have this vision in your head of how YOU would run the server. You are not thinking at all about the community as a whole. I can find thread after thread of players that complain about how they don't want to spend time leveling or farming gear, yet you ignore all of that and because YOU enjoy PvE you think they should cater to you directly. Like I said before.... You want to make leveling harder? Good, then next time you level go and farm mobs all day. Nobody said you have to go to the BG's or dungeons and do tasks. The system is still in place to take your time with leveling. You want to do Gala raids and farm bosses, do ML raids, and farm for aritifacts? Then do it! They didn't remove them. They all still exist. You are just upset because NOBODY wants to do those things. So your great idea is to force everyone to do stuff they don't want to do. We get it, you enjoy PvE, but that VAST majority of players do not.
How's that server doing these days, let's see...
Oh wow 73 active players online at the making of this post, higher than I thought!
Clearly shows they knew better and that the classic play style is really what people want, the initial hype and newness had nothing to do with the large numbers at the start nope this is what people always wanted. Broadsword would do well to copy it as well as they can if they wish to retain as large of a player base that a free alternative completely squandered in 2 years, though really it was over in less than 1 year, yikes.
And you can spare me your (I'm sure) perfectly good arguments of why it failed and how the Bird will be oh so much better, please, once the initial hype dies down it'll be the same story. By the time it does though I'm sure another alternative will be prepared and the same cycle will continue. The only thing to be learned here is that new shiny free things are cool, so something like a ladder reset system would likely be very successful.
YouTube
1. Lower the cost. Lower the cost of monthly subscription and especially lower the cost to buy multiple months of subscriptions. There are brand new games that don't cost $15 a month to play. Anyone saying $ is not a factor has not played on any of the other free servers out there. I did for 4+ years and most of the players I played with money was a factor. Why pay for something when you can play it for free?
2. Improve QoL changes in the game. The DAoC of today is WAY better than when it was when I played before. The /bank feature, speed charges, sup pots, and all of the random things that have been implemented over time made a HUGE difference to me when I came back to live. If it was not easier to do things then I would have never stayed playing here when I came back. They should look to expand on this further. Add more random items to the BP recipes. Things like Skull Keeper or other random template items that are not in the current list. Make getting Sup/Celerity pots easier.
3. This is more of an offshoot on #1, but they need to add more stuff to the MTX shop. That is a serious form of money they could be earning if they just expanded it further. More skins, effects, mounts, and any other sort of random fluff should be there to offset a cost reduction in the game. If they make more money on MTX then they can make the game more affordable.
4. FIX THE EXISTING BUGS!!!! There are still WAY too many bugs floating around. I should not be crashing to desktop almost every night I play because I use shift+right click to switch an item in my inventory. People should not have to bypass certain areas in main cities to avoid crashing. I shouldn't lose a buff because I switched out a bracer that was not even the one with the charge. There are so many random bugs that should not exist on an 18 year old game. I had very few bugs at all when I played on that certain other free server before their reboot. If a free server can run a relatively low bugged server, than I would hope a paid live server could do a better job of this.
5. They need a viable free 2 play model. I know they are working on this, but this is maybe the most important patch they have done to this game in the last 10 years. If done right it will jack our population up with returning players. If done right, many of those players will decide to pay eventually or even spend money on the MTX shops. Why play on a janky free server when you can play on the actual live server for FREE?! The hard part is going to be doing this right. I can't say for sure what they should do to make this right, but they need to make sure that the people playing on F2P are not just getting a watered down version of the game that they can only enjoy a little bit of. They need to be able to experience what Live can offer, but still leave them wanting a bit more to encourage them to become subscribers eventually. It will be a tough challenge to master, but if done correctly could completely fix the population issues and make this game last another 18 years. As others have pointed out, there are people who want to play the game, it's just a matter of getting them to come here instead of playing on some free server.
Regarding the PvE aspect, vanilla DAoC was a grind fest with little competition. More MMOs have come out since then fine tuning their PvE content while DAoC PvE has remained largely unchanged except for becoming easier with fewer people. As some have stated, the appeal to this old game is the RvR and not the PvE. The Gaheris population reflects this.
A season/ladder server rotating through rulesets and/or patches coupled with rollover to Ywain could be very successful. It is clear from the "other servers" that a fresh start brings in people. The problem is retaining players which a ladder system may solve.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
1) New so an even reset playing field no rr12’s farming new toons in Kings templates.
2) Classic/Si/QoL changes make the gameplay much more smooth and faster then Vanilla DAOC. /train and an account bank come to mind.
3) free meaning doesn’t cost you 16-32$ USD
4) not run by Live alas most of those playing from Bors tried live and it’s literally night and day from what it was 3+ years ago.
https://divoxutils.com/users/user_2ZTPHy8tjVF9LWMgujSZfCY9Mos/characters
Daoc is an amazing rvr game, but there needs to be off rvr things to do. People need other wheels to spin. I dont always want to go out and get run over for 3 hours. Sometimes I just want to do toa if it's to earn a few bucks for my next temp or something. You still need a balance of pve and pvp, but not with solutions like curse or ow, imo. The game has a ton of content you can tweak the encounters and loot tables to and spice things up. We dont need to reinvent anything.
F2P model isn't going to massively increase the player base for any great length of time, bit like the shards, fun for a while then off they go again.
The only model that would work is daoc to become free for all, and all monetary gain to be extracted from mithril purchases, maybe even to buy BP via mithril so people could access bountycraft without grinds in rvr.
There is no playerbase out there waiting for another server that wouldn't take away from live servers, no more servers please, focus on live.
I agree with solic on old areas like galla, tusc glacier and sidi, they need revamping with top tier loot models, heck there's a whole expansion of toa, full of brilliant temples and dungeons that are wasting away that could harbor top tier loot and items too, even if it was just updated with new skins for the skinners out there.
The main problem at the root is broadsword, they just don't seem to care anymore. Running the game, clinging onto every last subscriber with little effort as possible, same old quests year on year, years old bugs, broken pet pathing, crashing, ld's, CM's with too much money, no transfer system ingame etc etc. Communication is at an all time low, very selective information, daoc site updated twice since the 14th December and i'm sure grab bags are mostly made up.
Demmps - Vampiir
Mimins - Bard
Dempseas - Warden
Dempsee - Hero
Only the 1% may do it, the ones that master the US language and know where to stick their tongues, the rest they just build a wall to keep out.
Seen alot of good post in this thread, best in years.
https://www.daocutils.com/chimp/aufnymf
Twitch Youtube Mixer
I believe that the season/ladder progression server would do all of these things. It would put new players on an equal footing. It would allow for different patch/rule sets while still being able to maintain QoL changes. I know you have been a huge proponent of the progression servers much like Path of Exile runs. I think that could work, and although it would split the server, it would also fold a lot of returning players back into Ywain when those seasons were done. So if they did a classic only server (1.165 and below) for 6 months than after 6 months many of those players that didn't want to do ToA or whatever would be next would than be on Ywain.
Gaheris population reflects that not many likes to play DAoC to ONLY PvE, it shows nothing about how many have or havent left because they enjoyed PvE and PvP on the same server.
The vast majority of DAoC players kind of quit, who remains to play DAoC are kind of a minority in the total pool of posible people that could play/return to DAoC, we will never know whos the majority and how many likes what cause they havent been asked, its just the same 10 - 15 people on the forums going back and forth.
Sure your circle of DAoC friends might only enjoy RvR and that makes it seem to you like thats the majority, one of my circle of friends enjoy both PvE and PvP, an old cicle of friends from my days of purely 8v8 only likes 8v8 and makes that seem like the majority to them, people that likes certain things pretty much always ends up with people that like the same thing as them, so they always think they are the majority.
Ofc the people that enjoy the current version of DAoC will be the majority both ingame and on the forums, cause the others have left.
If we want to stop the decline and increase the population, we kind of have to listen to the people that dont play and why they dont play, if the current population wants to increase DAoC's player count, we have to make sacrifices to what we want to fit in stuff others like.
DAoC always had room for pure PvE'ers, people who enjoy PvP and PvE in DAoC like myself, people who wants to only PvE, people who wants to only craft, etc. There are lots of ways to do it, so those who strikcly wants to PvP have items to trade with people that strikly wants to PvE, make decent gear drops in all content with variations that make people want to trade, sell BP stuff PvE'ers want, BP components for crafting crafters want. Sure this may be far to late to do anything about now.
Personally i would be happy with just having ML10, SI, DF, classic drops, etc, that matches OW and cursed, nothing game changing, same power level, just maybe a tad different stats and updated procs, so people had options in ways to get their gear and variation, like sometimes you find a piece of gear with 5% body, spirit, energy, that you really wish was 5% heat, cold, matter instead to fit what you wanted to use in other slots. ( Yes some people will agree with me, others will disagree, thats life )
I find it abit odd tho that the same company who closed down task dungeons, cause they wanted people outside in the world i think it was for grouping and stuff ( Maybe my memory fails me on this part lol
It seems like there are no direction or vision in things done, its just thrown together to shut someone up moaning on the forums.
Even tho the current DAoC population is small, the people on this forum are very few compared to the remaining population and i really wish Broadsword would ignore us all here for a little and do some login or email surveys to get a broader perspective on whats going on, cause clearly the way things have been done the last 2 -3 years isnt working, in my eye's atleast.
Totaly agree, short and to the point unlike the walls i seem to build, rofl
Edit: I suck at spelling.
The free to play model also has to be focused on getting players (and there for keeping paying players) and not making money. What I mean by this is that some games play the it's greener on the other side model of ftp (no xp for you, no nice items for you, no op classes for you, unless you pay) this makes players feel like you have to pay to win or pay to progress; so the user pays or quits. The other way to do it is to give the player the full game, but at a much slower rate, or only for a type of play style (no stealth, no casters, ext). This keeps the free players playing without hitting the pay or leave wall (there by making your paying people happy)
Totaly agree, no more powercreep please, just variation in equaly strong items.
I wish they would bring every heal proc down to 120, remove some of all the /uses and change GMOV 7% Hot, to 5% like everything else. Just to name a few lol.
I, for one, am a huge fan of my Mercenary's completely bland cursed chest piece. I think having absolutely no armor pattern/design on it add's to the rustic appearance.
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/e7I0A3ruDmc.jpg
https://www.granks.com/daoc/signature/char/IY0C9fELOGQ.jpg
You`re missing the point that this classic server was fakked up by his own team and the die-hard-1.65 players. They denied every form of QoL and their attitude..omfg. Don`t compare it with the current server, it needs a restart 3-4 times/day, it isn`t bugfree, but overall it is stable.
If such a small team of daoc enthusiasts (that don`t get money in any form) is able to run a stable server with 3k players at primetime, why isn`t BS able to grab the old classic server code out of the desk, overhaul it and make it run? Is there anything to loose at the current state of 4-500 players at primetime, 1/3 of them beeing buffbots....?
The whole reason they put in the BP system was in response to people being upset about having to farm Curse and OW to obtain items that are a must for most classes wanting to play in RvR. I'm not saying that anyone who plays DAoC hates PvE, I'm saying they are the minority, and if BS did something to make leveling harder or farming for items more difficult it would upset way more than it would please. For the record, I always enjoyed the grind to 50 and farming a template, but I certainly was not complaining when they made things way easier. The time sink and grind in RvR is enough to keep me going. I don't have time to spend 2-3 months leveling a toon to 50, getting ML10, CL15, and getting templated. I did in my early 20's, not so much in my late 30's.
Also, I cannot state that enough, even if BS was able to contact ALL old players and ask why they no longer play an 18 year old game, how would they accommodate so many different ideas? Just look at this thread. Some want a ToA server, some want classic, some want a ladder/progression server, and the list goes on and on. Some want more PvE, some want less PvE. Some want leveling to be harder, others want it easier. How do you answer so many completely different ideas of what DAoC should be? BS does what they can. They listen on the forums and try to determine what the majority of players currently playing want. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
The very few people that use the forums have been very vocal.
How is it excatly you know who's a minority in what ? the 5% using the forums ? your circle of friends that enjoy what you do ? I guess next we will be talking about the silent majority and putting words in the mouth of people who havent spoken them self yet. How about we all speak on our own behalf and let others speak for them self.
If you would read all of my post, im pretty sure you will see that i have never asked for the game to be turned in to a PvE game ( I PvP first, but enjoy the PvE too as a break at times ), i have asked for more options in PvE for the same or similar rewards, different roads to the same goal.
I dont care if you can buy everything in game for BP, glass, scales, blood seals, diamond seals, whatever, i just would like old zones to atleast reward decent G and something that could be used in a RvR template, im not interested in new or stronger items.
DAoC does not have to compete with any of the PvE games, i personally enjoy PvE in DAoC cause of its unique ways the classes work in PvE. To name a few examples, i dont see any other games out there with focus pulling, i dont see any games out there with DAoC's CC system, i dont see any games out there with spam able PBAE and tank guard, most newer mmo's pet's on pet classes cant compare to caba / SM / chanter / BD / Ani / necro / theurg / druid, hunter pets, in newer games pets are pretty much dummies you cant control or do much with.
How does DAoC compete with other PvP games ? Much like its PvE, by being different, from classes and how they work, to how you fight things, an example Elder scrolls online got keeps too, that dosnt mean we have to shut down DAoC to revamp it, we didnt close down and revamped DAoC or gave up on DAoC's RvR when Warhammer online released, look whos alive and who isnt.
Personally i didnt like curse or OW either and i still dont, that dosnt mean i hate PvE, i dont like the way its made with quest and single time rewards, thats why i would like areas of the game that dosnt work like that to drop similar items to give options in the way we can do things, already described it above, in this post and the last.
They ofc cant contact or please all, there will ofc have to be limits, atleast it would give them an idea of why people that play today actualy do play and a general idea about the major points that made people leave. Then braodsword can make a direction and vision that fits with the current playerbase and some of the major issues that could posible make people come back. Currently none knows if pople quit cause of Broadsword, class changes, RvR changes, PvE, etc.
Listening to the forums, where maybe 5% of the playerbase comes and its generally the unhappy loud people that come, trolls and stuff, isnt really a majority and its not really a wise move to base game decisions affecting 100% of the playerbase around that imo, but thats how i see it and clearly you dont, so that we wont agree on hehe
Regarding PvE, I don't see the appeal outside of preparing for RvR. There is no need to add PvE content to DAoC as it clearly hasn't increased the population (i.e. OW and Curse campaigns). Updating loot tables for old content would be fine but would require careful implementation to prevent gear creeping.
Other MMORPGs don't have focus pulling or strong pet classes because they are centered around group play. This really isn't a bonus to DAoC as it prevents the necessity to form groups outside of one or two bots. The only "unique" part about DAoC PvE is you can literally do everything with one macro group. I don't see this being a good argument for investing time/resources on a component of the game that doesn't require a community to complete.
DAoC is truly unique in the RvR scene and it's the reason why the game still has a population. All you have to do is compare /who NF and /who to know where most of the players are.
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
Mid right now: /who = 117 and /who NF 64, thats roughly 54% in NF.
Edit:
Alb /who 115 and /who NF 65.
Hib /who 125 and /who NF 64 with a BG on topax up in NF.
what use is this again ? Edit: <---- that came out wrong and wasnt ment in an provocative or rude manner, sorry
It shows a solid 50% of the population is in NF. Include the Battlegrounds and the fraction of players occupying a RvR zone outweighs any other zone in the game. Why do you suppose that is the case?
"The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
"Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/