Tics and the "Patch Effect"

Auberne · November 2018

Before 1.125, there were roughly 16 tics that consistently got over 100k a week. Post patch, we're up to 42 for last week.

That's a big swing based around ST, Snare changes

Sleepwell · November 2018

a-la necro. When i first came back to live, necro was FoTM. They were adjusted (some call it nerfed) several times and the necro population stabilized. I'd say enjoy them while you can... ride the rp wave until they are adjusted

Natebruner · November 2018

Ding 6L3 on my tic

BurkleyRIP · November 2018

Hello spam

Ylazul · November 2018

What are the pops for all classes? Tics could use some adjustments, but then again, so could about 50-75% of non-Alb classes.

Ewer · November 2018

And yet there are still even more active Runemasters in game, who are currently still outperforming heretics.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Runemasters

Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	RM RPS		RM Kills	RM Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		17,842,994	28,298		145
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		17,555,356	29,267		142
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		13,319,454	16,614		114

A more interesting comparison however is to Thanes. Post patch Thane and Heretic performance is actually mirroring each other.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Thanes

Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	Thane RPS	Thane Kills	Thane Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		14,241,421	20,641		125
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		8,194,128	14,677		102
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		5,866,398	8,615		102

So while yes Heretics have become more popular and Albion has access to more STs than before, Midgard should still have plenty more STs than Albion and both the Mid ST classes are heavily benefiting from the patch, despite all the QQing here.

Edit: Data is from http://www.excidio.net/herald/stats/class/

tald · November 2018

It is actually pretty satisfying running at the mid zerg

- with heretic rr5 up getting nuked for 20 damage
- having a warrior wail on me for just over 60 damage
- Whilst i looking for the biggest clump to drop my ST5
- Then looking for the biggest clump to egg rezz for those people unfortunate enuff not to have a rr5'd heretic in their group

Then i wake up from my little nap and continue roast my marshies inside KM.

Ylazul · November 2018

tald wrote: »

It is actually pretty satisfying running at the mid zerg

- with heretic rr5 up getting nuked for 20 damage
- having a warrior wail on me for just over 60 damage
- Whilst i looking for the biggest clump to drop my ST5
- Then looking for the biggest clump to egg rezz for those people unfortunate enuff not to have a rr5'd heretic in their group

Then i wake up from my little nap and continue roast my marshies inside KM.

Heretic RR5 reduces magic damage by 75%. Dividing 20 by .25 yields 80. So somehow you were being nuked for 80 damage before RR5. Somehow, Berserkers were hitting my 50 enh Tic with over 1000 AF for 250 with a single hand and no Vendo. Why do Zerks deal 400-800% more DPS?

Are you a CSR?

Also the Tic rr5 doesn't affect casters. And it was awfully nice of the Mids to stay clumped up and not CC you even after you were "wailed on"

BurkleyRIP · November 2018

In think most jumped on thanes to test out new nuke dmg and thought it would be a counter to the heretic anthem. Unfortunately that is wrong as hammer spam doesn’t break a tic, that’s why we need the supp runie Zerg to take over. It’s the only counter to the tic Zerg snare spam besides an ae focus bainshee nearsight.

I might respec my sorc to full body and run with the albs and spam a low level ae root on the mid tanks to give them snare immunity just to be a a$$

Ylazul · November 2018

Ewer wrote: »
And yet there are still even more active Runemasters in game, who are currently still outperforming heretics.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Runemasters
Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	RM RPS		RM Kills	RM Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		17,842,994	28,298		145
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		17,555,356	29,267		142
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		13,319,454	16,614		114
A more interesting comparison however is to Thanes. Post patch Thane and Heretic performance is actually mirroring each other.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Thanes
Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	Thane RPS	Thane Kills	Thane Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		14,241,421	20,641		125
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		8,194,128	14,677		102
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		5,866,398	8,615		102
So while yes Heretics have become more popular and Albion has access to more STs than before, Midgard should still have plenty more STs than Albion and both the Mid ST classes are heavily benefiting from the patch, despite all the QQing here.

Edit: Data is from http://www.excidio.net/herald/stats/class/

Verdict: more hyperventilating, lying, exaggerating, and crying from Mids.

Nothing has changed in 15 years. I think my original assessment of RMs not needing ST are strongly supported by this data, thanks. Perhaps Alb can have ST placed on both Friars and Paladins, rather than Tics, as the classes are close cousins these days.

Ewer · November 2018

BurkleyRIP wrote: »

In think most jumped on thanes to test out new nuke dmg and thought it would be a counter to the heretic anthem. Unfortunately that is wrong as hammer spam doesn’t break a tic, that’s why we need the supp runie Zerg to take over. It’s the only counter to the tic Zerg snare spam besides an ae focus bainshee nearsight.

I might respec my sorc to full body and run with the albs and spam a low level ae root on the mid tanks to give them snare immunity just to be a a$$

They earned an awful lot of realm points doing something that wasn't effective.

Edit: Also hammer spam or anything that normally interrupts will interrupt the Tic AOE. Only the single target focus is uninterruptible except by melee.

Tanky · November 2018

Ylazul wrote: »
Ewer wrote: »
And yet there are still even more active Runemasters in game, who are currently still outperforming heretics.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Runemasters
Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	RM RPS		RM Kills	RM Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		17,842,994	28,298		145
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		17,555,356	29,267		142
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		13,319,454	16,614		114
A more interesting comparison however is to Thanes. Post patch Thane and Heretic performance is actually mirroring each other.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Thanes
Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	Thane RPS	Thane Kills	Thane Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		14,241,421	20,641		125
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		8,194,128	14,677		102
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		5,866,398	8,615		102
So while yes Heretics have become more popular and Albion has access to more STs than before, Midgard should still have plenty more STs than Albion and both the Mid ST classes are heavily benefiting from the patch, despite all the QQing here.

Edit: Data is from http://www.excidio.net/herald/stats/class/
Verdict: more hyperventilating, lying, exaggerating, and crying from Mids.

Nothing has changed in 15 years. I think my original assessment of RMs not needing ST are strongly supported by this data, thanks. Perhaps Alb can have ST placed on both Friars and Paladins, rather than Tics, as the classes are close cousins these days.

Wrong.This data is flawed. Not sure where it's pulled from, time factor, etc. But for rvr primetime scenario, there are no where near the amount of Thanes to heretics. I'd venture to say with 99% confidence that heretics outnumber Thanes 2:1. Furthermore, as tald graciously stated even jokingly, Thanes do not have the toys Tics have to survive either a tank train or a caster train like Tics do. Get your bias glasses off dude.

Ylazul · November 2018

Tanky wrote: »
Ylazul wrote: »
Ewer wrote: »
And yet there are still even more active Runemasters in game, who are currently still outperforming heretics.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Runemasters
Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	RM RPS		RM Kills	RM Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		17,842,994	28,298		145
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		17,555,356	29,267		142
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		13,319,454	16,614		114
A more interesting comparison however is to Thanes. Post patch Thane and Heretic performance is actually mirroring each other.

Level 50 Heretics and Level 50 Thanes
Date		Tic RPS		Tic Kills	Tic Count	Thane RPS	Thane Kills	Thane Count
Nov 18, 2018	13,899,634	18,244		121		14,241,421	20,641		125
Nov 11, 2018	6,599,212	11,897		82		8,194,128	14,677		102
Nov 4, 2018	4,911,981	6,522		75		5,866,398	8,615		102
So while yes Heretics have become more popular and Albion has access to more STs than before, Midgard should still have plenty more STs than Albion and both the Mid ST classes are heavily benefiting from the patch, despite all the QQing here.

Edit: Data is from http://www.excidio.net/herald/stats/class/
Verdict: more hyperventilating, lying, exaggerating, and crying from Mids.

Nothing has changed in 15 years. I think my original assessment of RMs not needing ST are strongly supported by this data, thanks. Perhaps Alb can have ST placed on both Friars and Paladins, rather than Tics, as the classes are close cousins these days.
Wrong.This data is flawed. Not sure where it's pulled from, time factor, etc. But for rvr primetime scenario, there are no where near the amount of Thanes to heretics. I'd venture to say with 99% confidence that heretics outnumber Thanes 2:1. Furthermore, as tald graciously stated even jokingly, Thanes do not have the toys Tics have to survive either a tank train or a caster train like Tics do. Get your bias glasses off dude.

Common sense and direct speaking does make me biased. Sorry, I'll believe the stats over you any day. Keep in mind these are days Alb had RP bonus, so the >100k RP statistic is inflated for Tics.

Oh and yes, those fearsome Alb tank trains ... take a screenshot for me. As for caster trains, Tics have Fanat on a 10m timer. Mid casters do more DPS than Albs' and more consistent DPS than Albs. Fanat also doesn't mean caster tics can actually cast their snare while they're being nuked, especially by "trains" aka more than one person

Ylazul · November 2018

Ewer wrote: »

BurkleyRIP wrote: »

In think most jumped on thanes to test out new nuke dmg and thought it would be a counter to the heretic anthem. Unfortunately that is wrong as hammer spam doesn’t break a tic, that’s why we need the supp runie Zerg to take over. It’s the only counter to the tic Zerg snare spam besides an ae focus bainshee nearsight.

I might respec my sorc to full body and run with the albs and spam a low level ae root on the mid tanks to give them snare immunity just to be a a$$

They earned an awful lot of realm points doing something that wasn't effective.

Edit: Also hammer spam or anything that normally interrupts will interrupt the Tic AOE. Only the single target focus is uninterruptible except by melee.

Careful - knowing how game mechanics work is a sure way to be accused of "realm bias" by some Mids.

BurkleyRIP · November 2018

Being effective and earning rps don’t necessarily coincide.

Ewer · November 2018

BurkleyRIP wrote: »

Being effective and earning rps don’t necessarily coincide.

In the narrative of "Heretics are way OP and Mids can't do anything other than cancel their accounts" I think RPs earned is a valid metric.

Ylazul · November 2018

BurkleyRIP wrote: »

Being effective and earning rps don’t necessarily coincide.

How would you measure it then?

Ewer · November 2018

@Tanky The numbers come from http://www.excidio.net/ that scrapes character data from the Herald and has been the source for all of @Simon posts / stats (I think its his website?).

You may not like the numbers, but they are what they are. Thanes and RMs are doing very well post patch, Mids just don't want to admit it. If the Prime time Mid zerg isn't running these classes than thats on them but apparently others are running them and they are doing well.

BurkleyRIP · November 2018

There’s always rescu, small man and hero to foght

tald · November 2018

Ylazul wrote: »

So somehow you were being nuked for 80 damage before RR5.

It was 20 and whilst my rr5 was active (not before)

Ylazul wrote: »

Somehow, Berserkers were hitting my 50 enh Tic with over 1000 AF for 250 with a single hand and no Vendo. Why do Zerks deal 400-800% more DPS?

template check.

Ylazul wrote: »

Are you a CSR?

no

Ylazul wrote: »

Also the Tic rr5 doesn't affect casters.

correct, point?

Ylazul wrote: »

And it was awfully nice of the Mids to stay clumped up and not CC you even after you were "wailed on"

CC only works if you respect it, else it does nothing. i did enjoy having stun, root and mezz immunity all at the same time thou.

Ylazul · November 2018

Uh yes, if you were getting nuked for 20 that means it would have been 80 without Fanat up. My Cleric's PBAE smite does 2-3x that much damage.

You obviously got caught on the very edge of an AOE attack. And my temp has 5% conversion and 25-26% melee resists. If that Warrior were hitting you for 60, he'd hit a Healer/Druid/Cleric for about 110.

Muylae · November 2018

Ylazul wrote: »

tald wrote: »

It is actually pretty satisfying running at the mid zerg

- with heretic rr5 up getting nuked for 20 damage
- having a warrior wail on me for just over 60 damage
- Whilst i looking for the biggest clump to drop my ST5
- Then looking for the biggest clump to egg rezz for those people unfortunate enuff not to have a rr5'd heretic in their group

Then i wake up from my little nap and continue roast my marshies inside KM.

Heretic RR5 reduces magic damage by 75%. Dividing 20 by .25 yields 80. So somehow you were being nuked for 80 damage before RR5. Somehow, Berserkers were hitting my 50 enh Tic with over 1000 AF for 250 with a single hand and no Vendo. Why do Zerks deal 400-800% more DPS?

Are you a CSR?

Also the Tic rr5 doesn't affect casters. And it was awfully nice of the Mids to stay clumped up and not CC you even after you were "wailed on"

screenshot or it didn't happen.

i know what i hit tics for on my savage when they blow everything and no way i hit a tic for over 100 in melee when they do.

Ylazul · November 2018

Yeah, without resist/absorb/af debuff procs going off and no crit that sounds about right.

Tics and the "Patch Effect"

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