Balance Request: Normalizing Positional Style Damage
A Cheat program used by many melee players was "legalized" at some juncture. (I suspect due to inability to enforce the CoC and police the activity by a skeleton CSR staff). Due to this decision, positional styles - which boast style effects and damage scaling balanced around situational use - are being employed at a much higher rate than originally intended - or was even possible in the past.
This factor, combines in a nasty fashion with DAoC's lack of collision detection - creating a situation where styled damage is vastly exceeding the established norm, and most melee defense forms can be easily by-passed, (yes this is easy), by walking into your opponent after applying a snare or disease, with few windows to escape the situation. (Two examples of many).
I understand that there are many considerations which prevent the developers from implementing collision detection - from developer resources, to budget, engine limitations, griefing and even enemy realms blockading access points. This issue is likely to remain for the life of the product.
However, examining positional style damage globally is well within the capabilities of the current development staff and budget.
It is my opinion that, due to the ease of executing these styles - caused by the use of third-party programs and exacerbated by a lack of collision detection - positionals should globally have their damage vales scaled. It is undeniable that they now land with vastly greater frequency, and as a result, melee players are forced to install and configure non-broadsword software to effectively participate. (This alone has numerous deleterious effects, which are very obvious, and beyond the scope of our discussion).
From my perspective, positional style should reward status effects - rather than damage, as they are almost guaranteed to land -. rather than being situational skills - thanks to the above factors. I would suggest the team reduce positional style damage bonus significantly, and focus on effects like snares, attack speed debuffs, fumble chance, ablative procs, health/power/endurance regen, power or endurance drains, silence, nearsight, disease, ect. Positional styles and chains that lack these effects should receive them.
It's unfortunate that we've come to this place, but multiple factors, (cheating, inability to enforce the EULA, lack of collision detection), have created a very visible balance problem in what was once a fairly smooth melee system. A re-examination of the damage dealt by positional is very much in order.
Thanks for your continued support.
This factor, combines in a nasty fashion with DAoC's lack of collision detection - creating a situation where styled damage is vastly exceeding the established norm, and most melee defense forms can be easily by-passed, (yes this is easy), by walking into your opponent after applying a snare or disease, with few windows to escape the situation. (Two examples of many).
I understand that there are many considerations which prevent the developers from implementing collision detection - from developer resources, to budget, engine limitations, griefing and even enemy realms blockading access points. This issue is likely to remain for the life of the product.
However, examining positional style damage globally is well within the capabilities of the current development staff and budget.
It is my opinion that, due to the ease of executing these styles - caused by the use of third-party programs and exacerbated by a lack of collision detection - positionals should globally have their damage vales scaled. It is undeniable that they now land with vastly greater frequency, and as a result, melee players are forced to install and configure non-broadsword software to effectively participate. (This alone has numerous deleterious effects, which are very obvious, and beyond the scope of our discussion).
From my perspective, positional style should reward status effects - rather than damage, as they are almost guaranteed to land -. rather than being situational skills - thanks to the above factors. I would suggest the team reduce positional style damage bonus significantly, and focus on effects like snares, attack speed debuffs, fumble chance, ablative procs, health/power/endurance regen, power or endurance drains, silence, nearsight, disease, ect. Positional styles and chains that lack these effects should receive them.
It's unfortunate that we've come to this place, but multiple factors, (cheating, inability to enforce the EULA, lack of collision detection), have created a very visible balance problem in what was once a fairly smooth melee system. A re-examination of the damage dealt by positional is very much in order.
Thanks for your continued support.
Post edited by Northerncross_G on
- The derision of your enemies is the highest possible form of praise.
- I intend to coarsen. I want stark contrasts drawn. I want polarization. I will not quietly accept clown-world so as not to upset anyone. I am not tolerant of our impending and increasing slavery.
- I intend to coarsen. I want stark contrasts drawn. I want polarization. I will not quietly accept clown-world so as not to upset anyone. I am not tolerant of our impending and increasing slavery.
Comments
Da fly family - 4501 4502 4503 4504 4508 4509
Da spider family - 441 442 444 445 447
Ywain 1. Mid - Carlingford Hib - Tullamore Alb - Dalton
https://divoxutils.com/user-characters
A long time ago, these styles were much harder to execute because the success area/angles were smaller. I think we need a return to the original formula that made the styles difficult to execute. If this can't be done, then the side positional stuns should be moved to the 2nd style in the style chain.
It's sort of stupid nerfing slam for hybrids to 5 seconds when the 8 second side style stun at 35? spec is basically a use anytime / anywhere style.
I addressed and acknowledged this already.
- I intend to coarsen. I want stark contrasts drawn. I want polarization. I will not quietly accept clown-world so as not to upset anyone. I am not tolerant of our impending and increasing slavery.
This is an excellent point. I had forgotten the developers widened flanks at some point.
This might actually be a better solution to the issue. Both in terms of resources and game balance.
Nice catch.
- I intend to coarsen. I want stark contrasts drawn. I want polarization. I will not quietly accept clown-world so as not to upset anyone. I am not tolerant of our impending and increasing slavery.
You can spec 42 shield for a 5s use anytime stun
or
You can spec 35 shield for a 8s use anytime stun and put the extra points into something else.
We are rewarding people who glitch out the melee system heavily by giving them longer stuns and more spec points to use in other things. It is way easier to execute the positional attacks than it is to defend against them. I'm a little sad this is something that won't ever be looked at because it certainly hasn't aged into the macro age very well.
I like the idea of reverting the arcs to what they used to be. That would help a great deal.
One interesting bug I noticed when logging on my second account was that I was able to "push" the second character around with the first one by walking into it - until I alt-tabbed onto that screen of the second character - then I was able to walk through them.
A bug I know, but it was interesting to see actual collision detection happening.
A pipe dream (impossible - I understand, but I can dream) would be people's strength scores being used in a calculation when pressing against one another. Something like Player_One_Str+(random number) vs. Player_Two-Str+(Random number) = pushed back x number of units.
The random numbers would keep it possible for trolls, firbys and Half-Ogres to be relatively equal in shoving matches with proper strength investment.
Where my impossible pipe dream get's tricky is how this works out with multiple people shoving and pushing, or stacked formations of people. For obvious reasons, collision would not apply to realm mates. (Griefing or just plain accidentally - going afk and blocking a portal with your giant troll unintentionally). Enemy realms blockading keep doors might be a problem - or it might not. It may well become an actual tactic that gives heavy tanks something to do now that they can't climb walls.
Oh, what we could do with a few million in budget and three devs.
But, I'm wandering. Revert the arcs, and this will help a great deal with the issue intriduced by allowing the cheat programs.
- I intend to coarsen. I want stark contrasts drawn. I want polarization. I will not quietly accept clown-world so as not to upset anyone. I am not tolerant of our impending and increasing slavery.
I don't think savages get their stun in the first style of the chain too unlike a lot of the dual wield / shield classes who are pretty much getting a use anytime stun for super cheap investment. Its nice to land a positional stun CHAIN anytime, but the classes with the opener side stuns are the ones benefiting a lot more than everybody else.
And really it even looks stupid fighting somebody just standing inside each other's character seeing who can twitch and glitch better. A complete change back to where people just stood in front of each other and rolled dice would NOT be good and is not called for, but the existing ease of twitch and glitch detracts a bit from the game I feel. You either join them or don't fight 1v1 as a melee. There's also a rather clear distinction I find too between people trying to "dance" around to execute styles, and people just running into the middle of your character twitching out the entire fight.
Maybe instead of messing with the arcs for attacking, they should leave them exactly like they are and increase the angle passive defense works as it is spec'd higher.
Parry for example has something like a 120? degree arc and actually caps at 50% rate meaning there's no incentive to spec it beyond a certain point. If increasing parry spec to 50 expanded that arc 25 degrees on each side, then there would be a 170 degree angle to parry and more reason to base spec higher in it (vs low spec + MoParry which would increase % but not defending area). The numbers used above are just hypothetical examples, not suggestions, and may be a little bit high..
Expanding character defense circumference coverage is the easiest fix here....
I gave up on trying to 1:1 without the cheat software. (I know it's legal, but it will always be cheat software to me, forever stuck in 2007). I just farm plants and crates on my skald unless I get a buddy on. The hacks matter much less in a group situation. It's large enough to swing a 1:1 against well matched players however.
I'm a BAF mob now. Heh.
- I intend to coarsen. I want stark contrasts drawn. I want polarization. I will not quietly accept clown-world so as not to upset anyone. I am not tolerant of our impending and increasing slavery.
Da fly family - 4501 4502 4503 4504 4508 4509
Da spider family - 441 442 444 445 447
Ywain 1. Mid - Carlingford Hib - Tullamore Alb - Dalton
https://divoxutils.com/user-characters
Whooo group hard mode. Not sure if I really like that change, but it would make certainly banners and really obnoxious MTX more useful for finding your group leader in the chaos of the big keep fights. Or do you just mean for enemies?
- I intend to coarsen. I want stark contrasts drawn. I want polarization. I will not quietly accept clown-world so as not to upset anyone. I am not tolerant of our impending and increasing slavery.