Appeal to keep Dopple Quest

edited April 27 in General Board
I have had major misgivings about pve for rps but I have completely changed my mind in the singular case of doppelgängers and truly believe it should be permanent.

When nothing is going on in the off hours, this is the singular best way to get some action going and you can pretty consistently expect SOME small man action at concentrated locations instead of having to roam the entire map.

No one (at least under the fixed respawn timer) is going to rocket to RR12 because of the dopples but solo the rps are worthwhile.

Please keep the quest permanent or adjust it like you did the flowers to the shipyard wood. My suggestion would be to change their locations every few months.

I know they’ve always been there but the current quantity is excellent.

I encourage you to answer this poll considering it only as a binary choice whether or not you think there should be minor tweaks. Perhaps save that discussion for another day.
  1. Should the Dopple Quest remain permanent as is?32 votes
    1. Yes
      90.63%
    2. No
        9.38%
Post edited by Seethyr on
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  • edited April 27 PM
    Oh as a side note. Perhaps the invader seals could be used to purchase the rp and conquest potions in the future instead of just getting all of the “riches” in once this quest is technically supposed to finish.
    Post edited by Seethyr on
  • this should 100% stay. If you have concerns about the rps then switch em to bps. But this has made the game so much better.
  • edited April 27 PM
    A new, permanent gather quest, Shipwreck Salvage, has been added that will be enabled whenever seasonal gather quests are inactive.
    Players can obtain the quest at their Commander NPC in their realm's strength relic town:
    Albion: Commander Wentworth in Catterick Hamlet
    Midgard: Commander Hrurdin in Godrborg
    Hibernia: Commander Locke Crair Treflan
    This quest can be obtained on both the Ywain and Gaheris servers.

    Think this is their idea for more action.

    Source: https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/traveling-merchants-and-shipwreck-salvage
    Post edited by Dale_Perf on
    "...the best thing to do if you disagree (or agree) isn't to ask us why (which is rhetorical)...." -John_Broadsword
    "the patch [1.127] is later this year" -Carol_Broadsword, aka "constable paddy biehbien of the bentsword local community Enforcement force "
    send a message with your wallet
  • I think the doppelgangers should stay with rp reward, but the quest should be disabled. Then they can enable a quest, if they want to make an event.
    This way they still have it for a possible event.
  • Definitely not. Killing NPCs for rps? Nope, not a fan.
    Da ant familyDa fly familyDa spider family
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  • @DaRedANT
    That’s a very old sentiment. No one is getting rich off killing doppels RP wise and there have never been sooooooo many people playing their r12’s on the daily.

    Incentive to roam in hotspots off island is a clear benefit to action. This event has shown as much. Boating is a horrendously passé mode of transport but at least there are places to go.

    Maintain some form of this event until further notice. Establish a better way than boating to get to and FROM other realms (taking/holding keep ports is not a viable/realistic option at the moment). And collect the dividends from increased participation and potentially resubs as people begin to like the game again.
  • Keep the doppelgangers.
  • Negative I think it's good to have limited duration events, much like a "season" that other games use.

    If they where smart they would actually do some promotion and marketing to highlight these seasons including mass emails.

    "Dark age of Camelot announces" for this Season (insert name here). It will focus on a brand new Doppleganger etc. etc.
  • Y'all should really read what I'm about to say...

    They should honestly never take away the current Doppel spawn rate/RP reward UNLESS THEY BRING POP BACK UP!!!

    ***This is the only reason my account is still subbed, and the only reason I play for so many (or as many as I can) hours a day. The game, for the first time in ~3 years is actually worth playing to me. The population still isn't what it was before Broadsword ruined it with all the changes, but at the very least I have something to kill time with between finding fights. This is so important... When I quit the game over a year ago, I was fed up with all the terrible changes that were made, but on top of that, the population was absolutely GONE. I'm talking 5-10 people on per realm in the early hours of the morning. I saw it dwindle from 60-80 to literally single digits throughout the changes that Broadsword made...

    But now it's back up to about 20-30 in those early hours, and much more in prime-times, which is an improvement no doubt. People have been posting in these forums saying how pop has never been better, but I still disagree. The only saving grace to me, is that there is something else in place... There is now a place for smallmans... there is now a place for 8mans... There is now strategic places for groups to go other than getting zerged down. For the LONGEST time, smallmans had absolutely nowhere to go... Nowhere... Ever since They took away ruined keeps it seems. Now it's different.

    And as for being a mostly solo player... not that I cared much before about getting rolled by anything 4+, but there is finally a Risk vs. Reward for soloers... Ever since ruined keeps and the old supplies quest was taken away and they introduced the "solo zones" it literally killed solo action. Well that, and dwindling population... I now have a place to solo where idgaf if i die to a group running me over because there are RPs for the taking...

    I really hope they finally make a smart decision and keep these PvE RPs, otherwise the game will go back to what its been for the last year or so...
  • It should remain permenant considering current pop. RP NPC is not good? What do you think how can low rank newbie can earn rps now? They are literally free rp to veterans and for sure they will quit the game after several run. Because all enemies they face is rr10+. Low rank Grp can defeat them? Come on, veterans have more friends then newbies meaning newbie is just free rp still. Dopp is the boost reason low rank and all other soloers etc can actively rvr.
  • Doppels are great for action what it has highlighted is that people do actually enjoy small man and solo action it is somewhere to go to avoid the zergs
    I would keep the quest but build on it change the locations.
    The other thing I would like to see is the maze towers back but easier to take maybe like the towers on agramon and maybe have a quest for that again limited rps.
    Rather than concentrate the action on ev spreading iit out but in recognised locations dilutes the zergs and makes action much better .
  • Brut wrote: »
    Doppels are great for action what it has highlighted is that people do actually enjoy small man and solo action it is somewhere to go to avoid the zergs
    I would keep the quest but build on it change the locations.
    The other thing I would like to see is the maze towers back but easier to take maybe like the towers on agramon and maybe have a quest for that again limited rps.
    Rather than concentrate the action on ev spreading iit out but in recognised locations dilutes the zergs and makes action much better .

    Again, like most of the times, this is just catering the high RR gangbang.
    Free running food for the big predators....
    I have been at the doppel-spots... horrible... not any chance for low RR or casuals...
    I watched for hours the scenes... as a stealther....
    Always the same names pop up... seems they have a route which they run all day long farming the helpless..

    That said...
    Nice that the big sharks found some food....

    But please do something for the casuals...
    There numbers are much higher than the gangbang-gang...
    Much more potential to earn money...
    The high-RR will not leave anyway... but the makers should try to get new or returning players to the game...


    Mahv
  • /sigh
  • Mahvash wrote: »
    Brut wrote: »
    Doppels are great for action what it has highlighted is that people do actually enjoy small man and solo action it is somewhere to go to avoid the zergs
    I would keep the quest but build on it change the locations.
    The other thing I would like to see is the maze towers back but easier to take maybe like the towers on agramon and maybe have a quest for that again limited rps.
    Rather than concentrate the action on ev spreading iit out but in recognised locations dilutes the zergs and makes action much better .

    Again, like most of the times, this is just catering the high RR gangbang.
    Free running food for the big predators....
    I have been at the doppel-spots... horrible... not any chance for low RR or casuals...
    I watched for hours the scenes... as a stealther....
    Always the same names pop up... seems they have a route which they run all day long farming the helpless..

    That said...
    Nice that the big sharks found some food....

    But please do something for the casuals...
    There numbers are much higher than the gangbang-gang...
    Much more potential to earn money...
    The high-RR will not leave anyway... but the makers should try to get new or returning players to the game...


    Mahv

    Mhm would be nice if the Buggane Potion would be usefull longer then RR 7 ? Make the 25% last until RR9? And maybee stretch that 75% until RR5 would in my opinion help the Low RR to atleast get somewhere usefull (16,5 DPS and 102AF)

    And just maybee give them a "Low Rank Quest" For RP (in Alb) The Way to Knighthood or something that after doing a couple of Tasks / NF Quests awards some RPS ?

    Just my opinion,
  • Like the idea of the low realm rank quest.
    As for the guy bitching about not getting anything at the doppel zones your camping a doppel zone on a stealthier can I ask you this question did you kill anyone and if not why not.
    Presumably you left the low realm rank solos alone while sitting on your stealthed white horse.
  • Keep it!!! Like the RP buff potion, reduce RPs based on realm rank.
  • The problem with doppels (and any other uniform resource that spawns randomly across a large area) is how difficult it is to find the right balance between scarcity and abundance.
    Scarcity = Frustration.
    Abundance = Players roam small loops of spawnpoints, and are less likely to find each other.

    (I'm not saying doppels are bad, I'm just saying there are far better solutions (in theory))
  • why did the assassin missions end ??
    i thought they led to more action...
  • Brut wrote: »
    Like the idea of the low realm rank quest.
    As for the guy bitching about not getting anything at the doppel zones your camping a doppel zone on a stealthier can I ask you this question did you kill anyone and if not why not.
    Presumably you left the low realm rank solos alone while sitting on your stealthed white horse.

    Assuming this is about me....

    I was not there to kill something, just to observe as i am about to assess the game....
    Killing the doppels is just a few swings, i did a few times... no challenge.. stopped doing it....
    As a stealther there is at least A chance to avoid the stupid gang-bang.
    Thats why for me personally stealhters are the ONLY way to play right now.
    But i also stopped the level 50 RvR-BS... playing only the BGs now. Max Molvik, everyhing else flooded with the same lamers like open world...

    A low-level quest would be one step forward but not a solution.
    There must very simply be a possibility to create even fights...
    Exclude high RR and Over-Equiped lamers from ganking the helpless is very much needed.

    Ways to do so are countless... just somebody need to have the balls to do it...


    Mahv
  • audizmann wrote: »

    (I'm not saying doppels are bad, I'm just saying there are far better solutions (in theory))

    Tell us more about this theory.
  • Yeh I’d like to see the far better solutions where are they instead of bitching about it let’s see what y’all got to offer.
  • Kroko wrote: »
    audizmann wrote: »

    (I'm not saying doppels are bad, I'm just saying there are far better solutions (in theory))

    Tell us more about this theory.

    yes, go on...
  • Not voting yes or no due to wording. I like the quest, but its camp-able. I'd agree to leaving in the quest to increase action, but make the doppels spawn anywhere, or at least far more locations. Its far too easy for stealthers/small man/groups to camp specific locations and wait. Instead of having 5 to 7 potential spawn locations per zone, make it 30. You want roaming?, you want to look for action?, or do you want dinner served on a platter right in front of you, without having to move a finger.. just sit and wait?
  • Well the concept of the quest is for it to be farmable, so that there is a predictable route/loop around the map where you can reliably find action.

    If you make them spawn anywhere, you basically go back to roaming the wind, but instead of looking for players, you look for doppels.

    Basically these quests are band-aids for the fact that the frontier is too big for the pop, but they are working quite well for what they are. They are limiting the "map" you need to look around to find action.

    If the map was 50% smaller probably that they wouldn't be required.
  • DAoC Community Lead
    Broadsword Online Games
  • Armagedden wrote: »
    Kroko wrote: »
    audizmann wrote: »

    (I'm not saying doppels are bad, I'm just saying there are far better solutions (in theory))

    Tell us more about this theory.

    yes, go on...

    First, a few quest examples:
    Supply quest: collect 3 rubble and 3 boxes
    Kill quest: Kill 1 bear and 1 wolf

    1. This simple (and very familiar) quest design solves the scarcity/abundance problem. You can have an abundance of rubble, boxes, bears and wolves, because these short quests are balanced by the distance everyone must travel to get from A to B.
    2. Players will constantly travel from A to B. This can be used to generate random traffic by adding a little complexity (A+B+C+D):

    7t8lNvH.jpg

    3. This made-up scenario consists of three overlapping quests. I originally did this to solve the problem that players cannot do the supply quest from "rubble to rubble". The beauty of three different quests is that it allows you to generate a much more random roaming pattern, simply by encouraging players to do all three kinds of quests (in any order and direction).

    4. Questers are free to go anywhere. Every (short) quest exposes you to 50% of the structures. This balance of freedom and exposure means you are very likely to meet someone, but you never know where. Because the resources are located in each corner of the zone, players are very likely to use the entire area. Also, players who are doing one type of quest, are just as likely to meet players who are doing the other two kinds of quests. This scenario unites all quests, and encompasses all playstyles (questing, roaming, camping).

    5. Notice that there is no place you must visit. Players can do all three quests and still avoid any one structure. What does this mean? Questers will avoid the biggest stealthzerg or the lamest campers. Questers will constantly adjust to dangers, and this is a "battle" that the slow-moving stealthzergs/campers will lose. Inevitably, players will spread out.

    6. This last point is difficult to explain (briefly) so please bear with me. Instead of the usual PvE objectives, let's explore how to create RvR objectives. This can be achieved by giving your opponent an interest in your quest (stopping you). Example: Let's say it takes a player 15 seconds (on average) to collect 3 rubble. We now add the following rule: You must always collect the 3 rubble within 30 seconds (or you lose them and just try again). This is plenty of time... unless someone attacks you. Anyone who attacks you and forces your 30 second timer to run out, will receive a 100% bonus on his/her next solo quest. Even if this just means 200 gold instead of 100 gold (ie irrelevant compared to kills) there is a lot of potential here (for intensity and pride). This is why all solo quests should be designed like this. It takes 15 seconds to kill a bear and you have 30 seconds to do it. Simple. Why not at least explore what effect this would have?

    A quest system like this is a very strong foundation (that you can build on). The next "layer" could be bonus quests. Every 5th quest is a bonus quest (assuming you vary between the three quests). Let's say you complete 1 kill quest, 1 buggane quest and 2 supply quests. You now receive a bonus quest based on the supply theme: A repair quest. Each structure has one wagon somewhere, and you must repair two of them. When you click the wagon an NPC will appear and begin to repair the wagon. This takes 15 seconds, but the NPC is delayed when attacked, and he must finish within 30 seconds. This quest is VERY rewarding (comparatively), but it will be lost if an enemy solo player stops you (and the enemy will receive the bonus quest). Again, this type of quest aims to generate more intensity and pride. It should be something iconic, such as stealing a banner (and move it to a nearby chest / hiding place). This is something that (some) players could actually take pride in, both in the moment, but also as a statistic. If you have stolen more banners than anyone else, this says something about you. It's the opposite of timer-camping. You are exposing yourself, and you are successful.
  • Sounds like chinese.
  • Kroko wrote: »
    Sounds like chinese.

    Ok, let me try a different explanation.
    Broadsword has done two things wrong when it comes to the design of solo action:
    #1 They like chokepoints and hotspots too much. (they took this to the extreme with ”bowtown”)
    #2 More recently, they branch off into too many directions with different quests in different areas. The problem with this is that only the strongest quest (doppelgangers) will attract enough players, BUT one quest alone is not strong enough to support ALL solo action.

    So what IS the solution?

    To use a metaphor, the action should be like the snow in a snowglobe (when you shake it). It is crucial to undertand that players are likely to pile up in the same location UNLESS given strong incentives to move around. We want the traffic and the action to be completely chaotic and unpredictable. We minimize the risk of adds by spreading out, and we maximize the chance to encounter enemies by moving around as much as possible. This can be achieved by:

    #1 Define ONE general area (in each frontier) for solo action where all solo objectives are included.
    #2 Encourage constant motion by turning everything into two-step objectives. We already know this from the supply quest (step one is boxes, step two is rubble) except Broadsword is making the mistake of emphasizing the lingering part rather than the motion part. Now, do the same with doppels: Instead of killing one target, you kill a bear (step one) and a wolf (step two). The same goes for the Lone Wolf buff, instead of interacting with one obelisk you have to interact with two different obelisks.

    My illustration above is an example of how to create a sustainable environment of constant random traffic based on two-step objectives.
  • I get what you are trying to accomplish. But ‘bridge’ makes zero sense in that diagram. Which bridge? How could you possibly have so many things at a bridge: bears, obelisk(s) and rubble? Enough to satisfy multiple gatherers (like a whole maze worth sitting on/around a bridge?). If this extends to multiple bridges doesn’t that defeat the purpose of expected directionality?. Aren’t bridges too close to keeps? Wouldn’t the ‘home’ realm just camp keeps like old coastguarding? If it’s the forward keep wouldn’t that be the ruined one in your example?

    Incentive is the name of the game. Dopples along with the seal rewards got people off EV. Now if only the map supported faster travel to enemy realms so that groups could find one another (not 10 minute transit times when you hear about a group at an enemy maze and you are somewhere else) then we’d be bangin.

    Right now only Mid is the hot spot to find any sort of consistent group v group action. The other realms can be dominated by a single 5-8 man (mostly roaming the wind, killing solos/duos and maybe a 3 man each 20 minutes) and when a group finally comes to challenge them they cannot find one another. So many places to hide or run to. Outside of mid it’s basically a sh!t show of who brought more and doesn’t mind the boredom of only killing smaller numbers. We need faster travel between realms, especially if heror is going to take all of Albion 6 days a week.
  • KatKat
    edited May 2 PM
    I like the dopple's - it is great way to move traffic, and gives smallmans and solo players something to do. But, I would strongly suggest they be moved from the "solo" areas. The dopples should encourage traffic all around the realms, not encourage fgs to camp for ez rps, farming the multiple dopples in an enclosed area.
    Post edited by Kat on
    Stealth zergs are a cancer
  • Rohan wrote: »
    I get what you are trying to accomplish. But ‘bridge’ makes zero sense in that diagram. Which bridge? How could you possibly have so many things at a bridge: bears, obelisk(s) and rubble? Enough to satisfy multiple gatherers (like a whole maze worth sitting on/around a bridge?). If this extends to multiple bridges doesn’t that defeat the purpose of expected directionality?. Aren’t bridges too close to keeps? Wouldn’t the ‘home’ realm just camp keeps like old coastguarding? If it’s the forward keep wouldn’t that be the ruined one in your example?

    You are absolutely correct. The illustration is a theoretical made-up scenario. I have tried to use things that are already in the game to show that this is not a completely unrealistic idea. Anything can be replaced. I believe the ruined keeps should be stand-alone structures just like mazes (both are awesome for solo action). Bridges (and solo ruins) do not offer enough cover, but what other alternatives are there? I am just trying to symbolize four different areas. I agree that cover is important and I would love to see bridges complimented by small nearby ruins on both sides. The resources would be scattered in the vicinity, not necessarily on the bridge, but also keep in mind that my suggestion only requires players to collect 3 rubble.

    I have desperately tried to find suitable locations on a frontier map for these ideas, but without any luck. It won't work if it's too close to keeps. This is the only real hurdle that I can't give an answer to (need dev magic to fix that).
  • Rather than bring back ruined Keeps how about a small fort in the maze area with door levels comparable to the old towers give a reward for taking the tower and as a contribution to the realm war spread quests out all over the map.
    The driftwood quests are dead now need to be revitalised all quests need to be risk reward something that will pull people away from the zergs and contribute to open field action.
  • edited May 4 PM
    Rest of us playing checkers and this man is playing chess @audizmann

    7t8lNvH.jpg
    Post edited by Fateboi on
  • Brut wrote: »
    Rather than bring back ruined Keeps how about a small fort in the maze area with door levels comparable to the old towers give a reward for taking the tower and as a contribution to the realm war spread quests out all over the map.
    The driftwood quests are dead now need to be revitalised all quests need to be risk reward something that will pull people away from the zergs and contribute to open field action.

    Bring back the old Moy keep it was three levels and alot of fun before they revamped Moy and ruined it...
  • Fateboi wrote: »
    Brut wrote: »
    Rather than bring back ruined Keeps how about a small fort in the maze area with door levels comparable to the old towers give a reward for taking the tower and as a contribution to the realm war spread quests out all over the map.
    The driftwood quests are dead now need to be revitalised all quests need to be risk reward something that will pull people away from the zergs and contribute to open field action.

    Bring back the old Moy keep it was three levels and alot of fun before they revamped Moy and ruined it...

    That's a hard no
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