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Make Bled/Crauch/Beno Broken keeps again....discuss

SleepwellSleepwell
edited January 2020 in General Board
With the recent domination of <insert realm here, currently HIB> due to population, changes, <insert your reason here>, the fun level has been leaking for all involved (even those on the dominant realm). When one realm dominates to the extreme, even the dominant realm player are bored into submission due to no action. It has a trickle down affect too. Zerg dominates, 8 mans are pushed away from their zone into zone where solo's like to congregate. Solo's group to avoid getting run over. I realize its the ebb and flow of the game, but at the same time, The outer supply keep being broken allowed smaller forces to "do something about the zerg" without getting ran completely over. As is, if a supply chain keep lights up, the zerg realm can easily port in 4 to 5 groups to defend, and therefore keep their monopoly on porting to any and every keep on the island, and lately to all realms outer supply chain keep. People are logging. Even your dominant realm rp numbers are dropping. People are just refusing to defend.

I realize that the broken keeps have come and gone. I dont know the right recipe to make it work correctly. I do know that the current meta is NOT working. Sure we can wait for 3 more months to be surprised by BS fixes that will inevitably break things worse... then we can wait another 3 months for those changes to be fixed. Its a great business model as long as clients continue to pay their subs. Over time, little by little the subs stop coming in though.
Post edited by Sleepwell on

Comments

  • TyrantanicTyrantanic
    PM
    Considering small mans and groups roam the solo zones I don't think having broken keeps is going to do much. Player mentality needs to change with a diminished population.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • TyrantanicTyrantanic
    edited January 2020 PM
    ...
    Post edited by Tyrantanic on
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    Broken keeps would give the underdog realm an opportunity to at least break ports to the dominant realm if the dominant realm had access to all towers on the island. It would also allow the underdog(s) to break ports to any coastal keeps that the dominant realm had. The main thing is allowing the underdog the mere possibility of creating action without being immediately farmed at a outer chain keep. Its way too easy to port into a chain keep when action is so poor. Especially lately people are hungry for RPs. If they see a keep light up, hordes of people port in to defend. Broken keeps give the "chance" to take the keep before a dominant realm can flood the keep with defenders.
  • TyrantanicTyrantanic
    PM
    I get the EV port break but it doesn't break coastal keep ports.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • EnkertonsEnkertons
    PM
    I came back a few months ago excited to see the ruined keeps - no one was there. The increase from EC population is dwindling fast, so I'm sure it would be the same result. I'd rather keep them keeps, to be honest.

    Random: I wish the EV towers were a little tougher and more conducive to fights.
  • SleepwellSleepwell
    edited January 2020 PM
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    I get the EV port break but it doesn't break coastal keep ports.

    Sure it does.... maybe im describing it wrong. Lets take today for instance.. im at work at the moment, but if Hero is on, im sure Hib has all their keeps, and probably all the island, and bled, and beno. If broken keeps were back, a small man, or even a good solo or duo could take crauch quickly if it was broken and cut Hib ports to bled, beno and the island (except the CK). That at least allows some flow. Otherwise, the dominant realm watches the realmwar map and 5 groups port into anything thats on fire within 15 seconds.

    Ive been on both sides of the fight. I've been on mid when it was dominant, hib when it was dominant, and both when they were the underdog. Its really no fun either way. Either a realm run over everything and the underdog turtles or logs (possibly onto the dominant realm which multiplies the problem), or the underdog hits a battleground or goes to pve.

    I agree with @Tyrantanic to an extent. Player mentality is the bottom line. But if players refuse to self regulate, then BS can easily step in (broken keeps is one option).

    I realize that these keeps have bounced around several times.. broken, in tact, broken, in tact... ev towers broken... it can go on and on... but the state of the game at the moment bites for both sides (dominant and underdog)

    Post edited by Sleepwell on
  • LlewdLlewd
    PM
    Broken keeps were great for small and solo action. It made no sense as to why they reverted them after like 10 people complained about them. It also makes holding the relic harder as they put the 6th relic in DC. But it was huge to disrupt flow to all the ports and change the dynamics of the game. Most peoples complaints seemed centered around the doors. As people would bounce back and forth between them.
  • KrokoKroko
    PM
    Doesnt sound bad.
    @Sleepwell What means broken keep exactly? Gates open, no guards...?
  • HellblastHellblast
    edited January 2020 PM
    The only reason why small man and group go to solo zone its for help friend to levelling cl because the soloer camp the lowbies in king gear trying to do the box quest . I think they need to move the box quest to an other spot .
    Post edited by Hellblast on
  • KrokoKroko
    PM
    Hellblast wrote: »
    The only reason why small man and group go to solo zone its for help friend to levelling cl because the soloer camp the lowbies in king gear trying to do the box quest . I think they need to move the box quest to an other spot .

    That would be nice if that was the only reason.
  • KatKat
    PM
    Hellblast wrote: »
    The only reason why small man and group go to solo zone its for help friend to levelling cl because the soloer camp the lowbies in king gear trying to do the box quest . I think they need to move the box quest to an other spot .

    Maybe at one point, but not anymore. It is constantly visited by smallmans and groups, plus the stealth groups will camp the location
  • NamesNames
    PM
    Lol my guild ram a 8man just to do supplies and made over 50k rps killing all the poeple that kill lowbies the dueling at that place is just a fancy word for fair 1v1s i would not see the prob in it except they just kill anyone just trying to do supplies so they cane be rvr ready. If you think about it they brought it opon them selves to be ran over. As i said in the pass move your duels to the cross roads of the labby there you dont have people trying to do there quests. And most 8mans and smalls use buff bots there not going to be so willing to port in to there jist to see if anyone is there. And it is the same distance for any realm to get there hell you can bind in the so its like 2min down time for rezz sick hell a fun little idea to is to she who can hold that relic the longest lol kinda like king of the hill.
  • KrokoKroko
    PM
    @Names
    Not everyone kills lowbies there.
  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    Kroko wrote: »
    Doesnt sound bad.
    @Sleepwell What means broken keep exactly? Gates open, no guards...?

    Thats correct. Front gate and inner gate are open, no guards. Holes in the keep, etc. You can still port in at risk.
  • 47el47el
    PM
    ruined keeps just made taking relics all that much easier----
    and dont forget all the zone in camping etc
    and your longer boat ride from ged lol
  • KrokoKroko
    PM
    47el wrote: »
    ruined keeps just made taking relics all that much easier----

    Yea, but for the underpopulated realms, which is the point.

    So if I understand it right, as long as a realm owns his broken keep, all ports are open.
    But a smallman could take the broken keep easily, so that port to island/other realms are broken.

    A 6th relic couldnt be placed in DC, so it would have to be placed in a keep without port, which would make defending harder.

    So this would make life a bit harder for hibs and a bit easier for other realms, which is exactly what is needed.
  • ArmageddenArmagedden
    PM
    They should get rid of "solo" zones and bring back ruined keeps. Those zones ruined/changed the solo mentality. You get rid of 3 zones that more or less forced solo players there in the first place, which makes them start roaming mazes and ruined keeps again, which means you will actually find action at the mazes again
  • TyrantanicTyrantanic
    PM
    Kroko wrote: »
    47el wrote: »
    ruined keeps just made taking relics all that much easier----

    Yea, but for the underpopulated realms, which is the point.

    So if I understand it right, as long as a realm owns his broken keep, all ports are open.
    But a smallman could take the broken keep easily, so that port to island/other realms are broken.

    A 6th relic couldnt be placed in DC, so it would have to be placed in a keep without port, which would make defending harder.

    So this would make life a bit harder for hibs and a bit easier for other realms, which is exactly what is needed.

    How the supply line worked was you needed your own MK (Crau / Bled / Beno) to port to EV towers and other MKs. Only the CK (nGed / Glen / Bold) was needed to port to the other coastal keeps. So, ruined keeps were good for MK and EV tower ports but the other realm could open a permanent port in your realm if they captured one of the other coastal keeps. Unless they change the supply lines, ruined keeps are not all that useful. My biggest issue is they kept EV towers ports when they reverted the ruined keeps back to normal. That alone would either merit ruined keeps again or just removal of EV tower ports altogether.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • SleepwellSleepwell
    edited January 2020 PM
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Kroko wrote: »
    47el wrote: »
    ruined keeps just made taking relics all that much easier----

    Yea, but for the underpopulated realms, which is the point.

    So if I understand it right, as long as a realm owns his broken keep, all ports are open.
    But a smallman could take the broken keep easily, so that port to island/other realms are broken.

    A 6th relic couldnt be placed in DC, so it would have to be placed in a keep without port, which would make defending harder.

    So this would make life a bit harder for hibs and a bit easier for other realms, which is exactly what is needed.

    How the supply line worked was you needed your own MK (Crau / Bled / Beno) to port to EV towers and other MKs. Only the CK (nGed / Glen / Bold) was needed to port to the other coastal keeps. So, ruined keeps were good for MK and EV tower ports but the other realm could open a permanent port in your realm if they captured one of the other coastal keeps. Unless they change the supply lines, ruined keeps are not all that useful. My biggest issue is they kept EV towers ports when they reverted the ruined keeps back to normal. That alone would either merit ruined keeps again or just removal of EV tower ports altogether.

    Ok, so maybe i'm rusty or i have missed this over time.

    Are you saying that supply line keeps no longer include the outer keeps (bled/crauch/beno)? I have probably missed this, or its changed 19 times in recent patches, but i know they used to be included in the supply chain. I thought that if you did not have the outer keeps that you could not port to any towers on EV or any opposing realm keeps.
    Post edited by Sleepwell on
  • TyrantanicTyrantanic
    PM
    Sleepwell wrote: »
    Tyrantanic wrote: »
    Kroko wrote: »
    47el wrote: »
    ruined keeps just made taking relics all that much easier----

    Yea, but for the underpopulated realms, which is the point.

    So if I understand it right, as long as a realm owns his broken keep, all ports are open.
    But a smallman could take the broken keep easily, so that port to island/other realms are broken.

    A 6th relic couldnt be placed in DC, so it would have to be placed in a keep without port, which would make defending harder.

    So this would make life a bit harder for hibs and a bit easier for other realms, which is exactly what is needed.

    How the supply line worked was you needed your own MK (Crau / Bled / Beno) to port to EV towers and other MKs. Only the CK (nGed / Glen / Bold) was needed to port to the other coastal keeps. So, ruined keeps were good for MK and EV tower ports but the other realm could open a permanent port in your realm if they captured one of the other coastal keeps. Unless they change the supply lines, ruined keeps are not all that useful. My biggest issue is they kept EV towers ports when they reverted the ruined keeps back to normal. That alone would either merit ruined keeps again or just removal of EV tower ports altogether.

    Ok, so maybe i'm rusty or i have missed this over time.

    Are you saying that supply line keeps no longer include the outer keeps (bled/crauch/beno)? I have probably missed this, or its changed 19 times in recent patches, but i know they used to be included in the supply chain. I thought that if you did not have the outer keeps that you could not port to any towers on EV or any opposing realm keeps.

    https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/1119-live-patch-notes

    https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/1122b-live-patch-notes

    Search supply lines.
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    Thanks @Tyrantanic .

    So i did miss that. As many times as it has bounced around, i knew that was a probability more than a possibility.

    I will agree with you then @Tyrantanic. I guess i can still make the argument that the dominant realm porting to all EV towers is too easy especially when they are already dominant. I will stand by my suggestion to bring back broken keeps. That allows for an underdog realm or even a sneaky solo to break a dominant realms port to EV towers. I can't imagine that even the dominant realm would be opposed to this. More often than not, if a dominant realm breaks all ports, it discourages action rather than just proving that a realm is dominant at said time. Broken keeps provide an opportunity to hopefully create action. As it is, if the EU hero zerg takes Bled or Beno, there is little to no effort given to take it back. It is well known as soon as either of those keeps light up, hordes of defernders port in to reap the benefits.
  • KrokoKroko
    PM
    I think I would let the keeps as they are. They sometimes offer good fights.
    But maybe remove port from EV towers? This would make it harder to "control" the island. But im not sure if this wouldnt harm everyone.

    Another idea would be:
    Realms cant put relics in their deepest keeps. So hibs cant put relics in scath/ailline.
    This would force realms (hibs) to put relics in keeps, where they cannot port, making defending harder.
    I think this would be a good idea in any case.

  • SleepwellSleepwell
    edited January 2020 PM
    Kroko wrote: »
    I think I would let the keeps as they are. They sometimes offer good fights.
    But maybe remove port from EV towers? This would make it harder to "control" the island. But im not sure if this wouldnt harm everyone.

    Another idea would be:
    Realms cant put relics in their deepest keeps. So hibs cant put relics in scath/ailline.
    This would force realms (hibs) to put relics in keeps, where they cannot port, making defending harder.
    I think this would be a good idea in any case.

    Those are options.. .

    Maybe its when i play, but i havent seen "good" fights at bled/beno/dc since EC was released. 6 days out of 7 (on average), Hib has owned these keeps, and no one really cares anymore. The consensus is avoid being farmed rather than getting in on the action. And yes, if no one cares what is this post even about? Creating action... if ports could be cut to the island in a minute, it would at least allow action to continue rather than an overpopulated dominant realm painting everything one color. That doesnt really help any realm. With most groups/smallman/zergs running multiple sojos, lighting anything up while a realm is dominant is suicide. You're better off rolling up a PVE raid and farming bps, otherwise, you're not really looking for action, you end up dodging it due to shear numbers.

    As was stated earlier, this is really a population/playerbase issue, but when players will not self-regulate, management (BS) can step in.... or they can obviously ignore it.

    The idea of removing the alternative to drop relics in deep keeps is an option as well. But most if not all will just park their best defense toon in the keep holding the relic. Ive always felt like if a keep is being seiged, that your characters should be ported out of the keep to the nearest relic town (unless you're already logged into that character and in the keep). That would prevent 100 defenders magically appearing any time a tower was lit to break port.
    Post edited by Sleepwell on
  • DaelinDaelin
    PM
    Sleepwell wrote: »

    The idea of removing the alternative to drop relics in deep keeps is an option as well. But most if not all will just park their best defense toon in the keep holding the relic. Ive always felt like if a keep is being seiged, that your characters should be ported out of the keep to the nearest relic town (unless you're already logged into that character and in the keep). That would prevent 100 defenders magically appearing any time a tower was lit to break port.

    I don't know why they just don't port any characters logged out in NF longer than 10 minutes to their relic town upon log in.

  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    That would work.
  • KatKat
    PM
    I prefer they keeps stay as they are
  • audizmannaudizmann
    PM
    Ruined keeps should be stand-alone structures like the mazes. No teleport.
    One in each frontier with solo quest objectives, and perhaps one on EV with group objectives.
  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    Kat wrote: »
    I prefer they keeps stay as they are

    That's an option. Lately it hasnt mattered (to me) anyway. Ive found it much easier to join the fray instead of fighting against it. Upon log in, If i see mids pop getting a 50% bonus or over, i just log onto my hib and go with the flow.
  • ImpoundedImpounded
    PM
    The most indecisive community I have ever met. They recently added ruined back and removed because majority asked for the removal again. The population doesn’t support ruined keeps and that was shown last time.
    Impounded - Warrior__________Gimpound - Champion
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    Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator

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  • TyrantanicTyrantanic
    edited January 2020 PM
    Eh. Players are grasping at straws in an attempt to bring some good times back. Sadly, we are in the dark ages of DAoC. At least on Ywain.
    Post edited by Tyrantanic on
    "The grab bag isn't for explaining every single class change decision or reasoning or that's all we would ever do." - John_Broadsword
    "The type of of dev communication of 30 mins a day updates mentioned here just isn't feasible." - Carol_Broadsword
    "Our Studio. Our Rules." - http://www.mythicentertainment.com/
  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    Thread can be closed. No feedback from BS. Not sure if its warranted or even expected anymore.

    I've accepted the concept. I'm sure ill have the occasional relapse and comment, but it seems senseless to even get the community to discuss things when it doesnt seem to matter.
  • ImpoundedImpounded
    PM
    Sleepwell wrote: »
    Thread can be closed. No feedback from BS. Not sure if its warranted or even expected anymore.

    I've accepted the concept. I'm sure ill have the occasional relapse and comment, but it seems senseless to even get the community to discuss things when it doesnt seem to matter.

    I mean.. this thread is about adding something they just got told to remove by the community after being told to add it by the community. So.....
    Impounded - Warrior__________Gimpound - Champion
    Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
    Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator

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  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    i personally never asked for broken keeps , or for them to be removed.. or re-added.. or removed...

    I also didnt ask for the aoe meta change. I'm also not asking for it to be removed.

    As @Tyrantanic pointed out.. i'm grasping at straws atm trying to figure out how to bring action back. Population is needed for action.. well that and diversity... but as u have seen, i have caved as well.. I'm tired of trying to bend to their vices... i'll just join the fray and go where the wind goes... so for me at least.. the thread can be closed.
  • ImpoundedImpounded
    PM
    I respect that, but just because you don't personally ask for the changes that have been made. Does not mean someone else isn't asking for the changes that are being made.

    I will agree BS does a lot of changes that aren't asked for. They do listen to requests made but a lot of the time these kind of posts are so 50/50 I don't blame them for ignoring. There was a time not even 2 years ago BS said no to realm timers... and now here we are with realm timers and a bunch of people disagreeing with that choice, even some that once wanted them.
    Impounded - Warrior__________Gimpound - Champion
    Chantsy - Paladin____________Shaquilleoatmeal - Berserker
    Cowtastrophe - Hero__________Shrimpsticks - Infiltrator

    Feel free to add me on Discord: Impounded#5743

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  • SleepwellSleepwell
    PM
    <shrug> .. like i said.. can be closed.. nothing will come of it

    I've "personally" accepted it. I resisted for a long while. Im just another sheep now :wink:
  • audizmannaudizmann
    PM
    The fact that people have different opinions on matters like ruined keeps and realm timers does not invalidate their requests and concerns. There are good arguments on both sides of these discussions, and there is nothing controversial about *not* having consensus in the community. It's up to Broadsword to find the optimal solution, and this doesn't necessarily mean choosing a side. They have to think outside the box.

    From a solo action point of view, I love the ruined keeps, but I completely understand if groups/zergs prefer normal keeps. By all means leave them as normal keeps, and put the ruined keeps to use somewhere else.
  • 47el47el
    PM
    thought the "ruined" keep was in the "solo" zone----
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